USA Presidential Elections 2012 LD

[Remix]

He's more anti-Israel (if you want to call it that) than most presidents are for one simple reason. He can afford to be. Since the amount of Jewish supporters he has is fairly insignificant relative to the other minorities which vote for him in droves he can take a line against Israel that other presidents couldn't.

Which aids him in the Middle East, where Israel isn't exactly popular.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well, now it gets interesting. Does Obama go even farther left because "why not?" or does he move towards the middle like pretty much every other second term president concerned with leaving a decent legacy?

It astounds me that basic ideas like helping your neighbor and equal rights for everyone is considered "moving to the left".

If compassion and equality are associated with "the left", what the fuck does that leave "the right"? Oh yeah, lambasted in an election they should have dominated.

This is personal but the thing that I'm concerned about most is Israel. So far, I have been deeply unimpressed by this president's actions as it pertains to Israel. He's likely the most ant-Israel president we've ever had. I'd like for that to change but I'm not hopeful. In fact, I'm scared.

And yet, the Israeli Minister of Defense said this:

In a Monday interview with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, Israeli Minister of Defense Ehud Barak praised President Barack Obama for doing “more than anything that I can remember in the past” in regards to Israeli security.

“From my point of view as defense minister [US-Israeli relations] are extremely good, extremely deep and profound,” Barak told Blitzer. “I can see long years of both sides of the political aisle deeply supporting the state of Israeli and I believe that reflects a profound feeling among the American people.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/israeli-...or-israeli-security-than-previous-presidents/

I'm not really sure where this "most anti-Israel President ever" stuff has come from, but its clear important people in the Israeli government feel otherwise.

And that's not even addressing the question as to why the fuck we care so much about Israel. And I don't mean that as a personal shot towards anyone.

As for the rest of the stuff, I wasn't confident in either of our "main candidates". Seemed like picking between two fatties when all the hot chicks are at another bar. You don't really win, you just hope your choice doesn't crush you.

The Republican Party, in its current form, is dying. Until they kick out the nutjobs and bring themselves back to common sense, they will continue to die.

In an election which saw just about every advantage in favor of Republicans, they lost seats in the Senate and lost the Presidency. If that's not a referendum on the Republican Party, I don't know what is.

 

[Ming]

Judging by the amount of posts in this thread, I take it the election was fun. I could not participate as I only found out the elections took place today. Which made me feel rather silly, after watching all three debates and listening to Obama and Romney bicker like school children for a few hours, I didn't even watch the damn finale. Which was rather obvious all along, but still.

 

[JJYanks121]

It astounds me that basic ideas like helping your neighbor and equal rights for everyone is considered "moving to the left".

If compassion and equality are associated with "the left", what the fuck does that leave "the right"? Oh yeah, lambasted in an election they should have dominated.

And yet, the Israeli Minister of Defense said this:


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/israeli-...or-israeli-security-than-previous-presidents/

I'm not really sure where this "most anti-Israel President ever" stuff has come from, but its clear important people in the Israeli government feel otherwise.

And that's not even addressing the question as to why the fuck we care so much about Israel. And I don't mean that as a personal shot towards anyone.


The Republican Party, in its current form, is dying. Until they kick out the nutjobs and bring themselves back to common sense, they will continue to die.

In an election which saw just about every advantage in favor of Republicans, they lost seats in the Senate and lost the Presidency. If that's not a referendum on the Republican Party, I don't know what is.

I'm not disagreeing with you as far as the premise of the republican party, but I don't think the Democratic party is any good either. I've been an advocate of a complete change in political parties as far as having more of them and not just the two. I've contested that both are broken beyond repair and more than that, the system in general of having to pick "one or the other" is broken.

As for Israel, I made it clear that it's a personal issue for me. Also, Barak isn't that well liked in Israel and he's certainly not that powerful there. Bibi Netanyahu is the guy in Israel. He'd certainly speak differently as it pertains to Obama.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Well, at the very least, the support was unquestioned.

Why does support have to be unquestioned to be legitimate? The questionability is the problem of the questioner. Jews don't trust swachas (sp?), it's pretty well documented.

Before settlements were even built, Obama told Israel not to build them. This despite the fact that the first settlements were ON land that wasn't in dispute.

Why did Obama tell Israel not to build them? What conditions or ultimatims did Obama give Israel if they built them? Did every president in Israel's short history agree to everything Israel wanted to do?

Then the floatilla attacks happened and while it was pretty clear within hours of them that Hezbollah men attacked Israeli soldiers violently and the soldiers merely acted in self defense, Obama came out and said "we have to examine this from all avenues" rather than saying he supported Israel's right to defend itself.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. What did you expect Obama to do?

Basically, this is a president that has looked to be liked by all the nations in the Middle East and as a result, has been looked upon very poorly by Israel. The thing is, Israel is quite a strong nation on its own, but it can't sustain itself if the United States is supporting those that want to destroy it. I'd rather just stay out of the Middle East than handle things the way they have been handled so far.

Are you joking now? Do you really think Obama's Middle East policy is "I don't care as long as they like me"?

How else has Obama handled the Middle East that you don't like? Because it looks to me that they have been fighting themselves internally for the past three years and Israel has been kind of an afterthought.

My family in Israel is fearful of this president and its a shared sentiment over there. Like I said, when it comes to other issues, it's different, but Israel is something I vehemently support regardless of what that means to my political affiliation. I don't believe the way this president has acted is in the best interest of Israel. I hope things start to change for the better.

Learn some recent history. Israel has been a clusterfuck of fear since 1948, not since 2009. Obama is taking a new tactic with Israel and the Middle East. God knows nothing else has worked.

 

[JGlass]

I'm not disagreeing with you as far as the premise of the republican party, but I don't think the Democratic party is any good either. I've been an advocate of a complete change in political parties as far as having more of them and not just the two. I've contested that both are broken beyond repair and more than that, the system in general of having to pick "one or the other" is broken.

Having more political parties isn't the answer. Having three political parties will lead to gerrymandering, and having any more than that will result in minority rule. The answer is having no political parties and voting for candidates based solely on their platforms, not party affiliation. Of course, that will never happen.

 

[Moon Knight]

Having more political parties isn't the answer. Having three political parties will lead to gerrymandering, and having any more than that will result in minority rule. The answer is having no political parties and voting for candidates based solely on their platforms, not party affiliation. Of course, that will never happen.

You can do that now. Democrat and Republican doesn't always mean one thing. Ever heard of a Blue Dog Democrat? You are free to ignore the party and just pay attention to the platform which doesn't always have to be some universal thing.

 

[Барбоса]

Obama has the most well-rounded Middle Eastern policy of any American president in the last 60+ years as it is based on the simple fact that you do not have to back everything that your ally does. They are not always in the right just because they are your ally.

Britain is the original nursemaid of Israel but has absolutely no problem telling her when she has done bad. When previous American presidents said nothing, it was taken as tacit backing to the at times ridiculous over-reactions of the IDF. Good relations with Egypt and Turkey are just as important as relations with Israel. There is also some realpolitik involved too as Israel knows all to well what side its bread is buttered on and regardless of the personal politics of its leaders, the USA and western Europe will always be its allies.

It is a similar argument as to why the Republican Party is becoming so laughable - why cater solely to your core voter/ally who is going to support you anyway regardless of the situation when you should be reaching out to the other players to win the game?