True Mr Wrestlemania

[danewera88]

Maybe its because i grew up with the late 90's generation of wrestling and not the old school, Hogan era, but in my mind, there isn't a question who Mr. Wrestlemania is. He is the HEADLINA! THE MAIN EVENT! THE ICON! H - B - K.
I will agree that perhaps Hogan had more high profile matches than the showstoppah! with guys like Andre, Savage, Warrior, and even the tag match in WM 1 with Mr. T with Muhhamed Ali as ref.
As far as the Undertaker, if you go back and watch those 16 victories, maybe 4 or 5 were quality matches, and he has only main evented 3 Manias, two coming in the last 3 years.
But Shawn, he stands out from the rest for a couple of reasons.
1) He was involved in the main event in 1995, '96, '98, '04, and '07. Keep in mind he would've been main eventing WM '97 had he not hurt his knee, which would have made it 4 Mania's in a row he headlined.
In '95 i know Bam Bam Bigelow and Lawrence Taylor was the last match but Shawn v. Diesel was the heavyweight title match.
'96 he was in the first ever WWF iron man, which is arguably the best Mania main event ever.
'98 he was the HOTTEST heel in the buisz and catapulted the WWF into the Attitude Era, when it was at its biggests.
Then he came back, and put on a show at WM 19 with Jericho, and out did himself at 20 with Trips and Benoit in the title match.
In 07 he put on a great show against Cena, getting the best match out of him yet again.
2)All of that would at least put him on par with Hogan. But HBK doesn't live on reputation, or his place on the card alone. He goes out and puts on a show like no one else, WHY? because he can.
WM 10 - Ladder Match, it was awesome. Its that simple. I don't remember what happened in the match between Hogan and Warrior, or Hogan and Savage, or any other of his opponents, except Andre and the body slam. But i remember Shawn falling down ontop of the ladder to hit Razor with it, and Shawn falling off the ladder onto the ropes and Razor taking the title.
WM 19, 21, 22, 24 - Jericho, Angle, McMahon, Flair. I could give you detailed memories of the show stealing moments Shawn both executed an managed to bring out in his opponents like Jericho tuning up for Sweet Chin Music, and both nipping up at the same time and Jericho low blowing Shawn after the match at 19. Or HBK doing a moonsault onto the announcers table on Kurt at 21, or Shawn's elbow drop off a 20 ft ladder onto McMahon on a table with a trash can over his head, and him putin up the middle finger as he was gurnied out.
Shawn Michaels is Mr. Wrestlemania. He has been in 12 Manias, Hogan 9. Shawn has been innovative and a can't miss performer and WRESTLER in all of his matches, Hogan has pulled out a few body slams and big boots... EVERY FUCKING TIME. Nothing different from match to match.
So i would say to anyone claiming Hogan, or anyone else is Mr. Wrestlemania, You're an Idiot. No disrepect.
But you are.

 

[klunderbunker]

HBK isn't Mr. Wrestlemania. Maybe 2nd, but it's a distant second.

Hulk Hogan is the reason Mania was invented. Wrestling was skyrocketing and it was being led by Hogan. WM was designed to put Hulk Hogan center stage in front of the world and it worked beautifully. Now did it eventually shift towards more of the company and less of Hogan? Of course it did, but he was still prominently featured. He has more Mania moments than anyone else. HBK is something like 6 out of 15 at Mania. Shawn's big moment was in 96. Ok that's all well and good, but that match is overrated. All anyone cares about is the last 5 minutes and a few spots in between. Seriously, here's the summary: Shawn doesn't fly around much, back hold, back hold, back hold, headscissors, back hold, Shawn's comeback, Sharpshooter, overtime, superkick. That took an hour and 10 minutes. Shawn has had some great matches there, but Hogan has more moments that define WM than anyone else and it's not even close.

 

[danewera88]

Maybe its because i grew up with the late 90's generation of wrestling and not the old school, Hogan era, but in my mind, there isn't a question who Mr. Wrestlemania is. He is the HEADLINA! THE MAIN EVENT! THE ICON! H - B - K.
I will agree that perhaps Hogan had more high profile matches than the showstoppah! with guys like Andre, Savage, Warrior, and even the tag match in WM 1 with Mr. T with Muhhamed Ali as ref.
As far as the Undertaker, if you go back and watch those 16 victories, maybe 4 or 5 were quality matches, and he has only main evented 3 Manias, two coming in the last 3 years.
But Shawn, he stands out from the rest for a couple of reasons.
1) He was involved in the main event in 1995, '96, '98, '04, and '07. Keep in mind he would've been main eventing WM '97 had he not hurt his knee, which would have made it 4 Mania's in a row he headlined.
In '95 i know Bam Bam Bigelow and Lawrence Taylor was the last match but Shawn v. Diesel was the heavyweight title match.
'96 he was in the first ever WWF iron man, which is arguably the best Mania main event ever.
'98 he was the HOTTEST heel in the buisz and catapulted the WWF into the Attitude Era, when it was at its biggests.
Then he came back, and put on a show at WM 19 with Jericho, and out did himself at 20 with Trips and Benoit in the title match.
In 07 he put on a great show against Cena, getting the best match out of him yet again.
2)All of that would at least put him on par with Hogan. But HBK doesn't live on reputation, or his place on the card alone. He goes out and puts on a show like no one else, WHY? because he can.
WM 10 - Ladder Match, it was awesome. Its that simple. I don't remember what happened in the match between Hogan and Warrior, or Hogan and Savage, or any other of his opponents, except Andre and the body slam. But i remember Shawn falling down ontop of the ladder to hit Razor with it, and Shawn falling off the ladder onto the ropes and Razor taking the title.
WM 19, 21, 22, 24 - Jericho, Angle, McMahon, Flair. I could give you detailed memories of the show stealing moments Shawn both executed an managed to bring out in his opponents like Jericho tuning up for Sweet Chin Music, and both nipping up at the same time and Jericho low blowing Shawn after the match at 19. Or HBK doing a moonsault onto the announcers table on Kurt at 21, or Shawn's elbow drop off a 20 ft ladder onto McMahon on a table with a trash can over his head, and him putin up the middle finger as he was gurnied out.
Shawn Michaels is Mr. Wrestlemania. He has been in 12 Manias, Hogan 9. Shawn has been innovative and a can't miss performer and WRESTLER in all of his matches, Hogan has pulled out a few body slams and big boots... EVERY FUCKING TIME. Nothing different from match to match.
So i would say to anyone claiming Hogan, or anyone else is Mr. Wrestlemania, No disrepect.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Without Hogan there would be no Wrestlemania, period. It doesn't matter about the number of moves you do in a match. If the crowd is highly entertained and heavily into the match, that's the end all be all. My 2nd personally would be HHH. Even though he hasn't won one since 2003 he has put on some great matches with Undertaker, Cena, Batista, HBK, and Benoit.

3rd place is a tough decision between HBK and Taker. The only HBK matches I enjoyed were him against Jericho and Angle. Undertaker/Edge and Undertaker/HHH were great as was him against Randy Orton. Batista has the best match of his life at WM 23 so I will take Taker slightly above HBK as I'm not going to hold his crappy opponents against him.

 

[y2j]

Hulk Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania, he built it. I like HBK but I do find his Wrestlemania output to be a bit overrated, I think Randy Savage gives him some tough competition on the Mr Wrestlemania title. And I think Bret Hart has an underrated record at Wrestlemania, he had the greatest match at that event with Austin, and his match with Owen is a 5 star classic

 

[2012isbs]

I seriously think they are more than one Mr. Wrestlemania, Mr. Wrestlemania bleongs to everyone who contributed something big to Wrestlemanis like Hogan, taker, HBK, even Vince Mcmahon
One of the Mr. Wrestlemanias belongs to a non-wreslter known as Mr. T he showed that this wasn't just for the stars of pro wrestling but also for normal celberities and actors as shown in following Wrestlemanias. His match with Hogan against Piper and Paul Orndoff proved that big things were to come. Mr. T is one of the many Mr. Wrestlemainias.

 

[Richard]

Well I don't think there's just one Mr. WrestleMania, there's a couple I would say.

Without Hulk Hogan and HulkaMania, there would be no WrestleMania and Hulk Hogan was the definition of WrestleMania during it's early years. I wasn't around when WrestleMania was just getting started but I would assume that merely the mention of the name of WrestleMania made you think 'Hulk Hogan'. He's been involved in quite a few memorable WrestleMania moments with Savage, Warrior and Andre in the early years and also with The Rock 7 years ago at WrestleMania 18. So I think that for the early years of WrestleMania, the honor of being called Mr. WrestleMania should go to Hulk Hogan. Every year people are hoping to just catch a glimpse of Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania and hope that he shows up and does something because like it or not, it's what people want to see. Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania.

The Undertaker. Yes, I know, not all of his opponents have been that good and he wasn't the best in the ring a while ago but in this day and age 'The Streak' is something that everyone looks forward to and to see who will take on The Undertaker. The Undertaker and his streak are synonymous with WrestleMania now, that's why he's my other selection for Mr. WrestleMania because he is also someone everyone wants to see at WrestleMania and the hype around his matches is usually pretty big.

 

[danewera88]

And who is going to be talking about Shawn Michaels at all let alone being 'mr. Wrestlemania'. At least people, new or old still know about Hogan he has left a legacy behind whereas although Michaels has had some great matches at WM he is only going to remembered for his Retirement match against Flair.

Yeah, you must either be plain stupid or just one of those thirty somethings who haven't watched the product since 1990, cause good ol' HBK has had more great WM moments than Hogan by FAARRRRRR that will carry on.
WM10 Ladder Match - First Ever
WM12 Iron Man Match - First Ever (and i guarantee Hogan would never last 60 minutes in the ring with anyone)
WM14 He wrestled Stone Cold WITH A BROKEN BACK! Yeah, Michaels suffered a career ending (at the time) back injury at the Royal Rumble 1998 against the Undertaker. Instead of packing it in and going out as champ, he spent 3 months cutting promo after promo as the lead man of the company and DX and wrestled a good match in the main event at Mania. And let me tell you something Sucka! It is a moment that people will always remember when Austin Stunned HBK, who sold it like a pro, with Tyson counting him down and then slugging him after. Shawn passing the torch made a great moment.

Since then, he has had moment after moment at Mania, and every other ppv and episode of Raw.
Hogan has slamming Andre, and...

And what?
What else is there that he has done that will be remembered.
He fought Warrior in a horrible match between two horrible wrestlers who hated to put other people over, EVER.
He temaed with Mr. T to fight, who? I don't remember and most people won't.
He face the Rock. Ok That might be remembered, but the match wasn't anything special.
All Hogan has is hype, and i think HBK actualy hit the nail on the head in his 05 fued with the Hulkster. He lives on a reputation from 20 years ago. HBK, he goes out every night and puts on a show.
People will remember HBK. That i have no doubts of.
People remembering Hogan makes me sad, because he doesn't deserve it.
Hulk Hogan may have built the house HBK blew the roof off of night in and out, but the difference is that Hulk Hogan the character is what made Terry Bolea (that's Hulk Hogans real name) famous, and Vince was responsible for it entirely. HBK the character helped get Michael Hickenbottom (HBKs real name) where he needed to be, but Michael the man took the character and made it his own.

I would hate to go against Taker, since he's my favorite wrestler ever. But you got to say Hogan. He invented Wrestlemania and took it to it's highest levels. He really dominated the first Manias, and he was the champion during most of them.

I do have to say this though, The fact that the Deadman has been to 16 Manias, only missing two, undergoing numerous gimmick changes and face/heel turns, and has remained undefeated is amazing.

actually, Hogan did not create anything to do with Mania, or anything to do with his own character. Vince McMahon created Hogan the character, and created Wrestlemania. Hogan was in the right place at the right time and deserve little to none of the credit he gets. He was a face that the company ran with, but he would have been nothing without the incredible marketing machine Vince and his staff became in promoting the event and the character of Hulk Hogan.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yeah, you must either be plain stupid or just one of those thirty somethings who haven't watched the product since 1990, cause good ol' HBK has had more great WM moments than Hogan by FAARRRRRR that will carry on.

I'm not 30, and I've been watching wrestling for a long time. And you're wrong.

WM10 Ladder Match - First Ever

It wasn't even the first ladder match in the WWE, much less in wrestling.

WM12 Iron Man Match - First Ever (and i guarantee Hogan would never last 60 minutes in the ring with anyone)

LOL, not it wasn't.

And, of course Hogan could last 60 minutes in a match, ESPECIALLY if he was to work the match that Hart and Michaels worked. Hell, they laid on the canvas for about 40 minutes of that match.

WM14 He wrestled Stone Cold WITH A BROKEN BACK!

Who gives a fuck? That has nothing to do with being Mr. Wrestlemania.

Yeah, Michaels suffered a career ending (at the time) back injury at the Royal Rumble 1998 against the Undertaker. Instead of packing it in and going out as champ, he spent 3 months cutting promo after promo as the lead man of the company and DX and wrestled a good match in the main event at Mania.

Haha, he only dropped the belt in the match because he would get his ass kicked if he didn't.

Or, perhaps, you have never heard the story of the Undertaker taping his fists and looking at HBK with a glare that said "You better do business tonight"?

And let me tell you something Sucka! It is a moment that people will always remember when Austin Stunned HBK, who sold it like a pro, with Tyson counting him down and then slugging him after. Shawn passing the torch made a great moment.

Actually, most people don't remember that moment, just the HBK marks remember that moment. But, you want to know what moment wrestling fans DO remember? Hulk and Rock standing toe to toe in the ring at WM 18, with the fans going nuts all around them, and those two turning their heads in opposite directions to acknowledge the crowd heat. I'm sure you know which moment I'm talking about.

Oh, and that Andre bodyslam. Yeah, I'm pretty sure people remember that one too.

Since then, he has had moment after moment at Mania, and every other ppv and episode of Raw.

He has? What are these moments, pray tell? His overrated Triple Threat? His ridiculously overrated match with Angle? A terrible match with Vince? Being carried by John Cena? A terrible match against Flair, that people only want to think is great because they want to delude themselves into thinking that Flair went out on top?

Hogan has slamming Andre, and...

Well, for starters, how about being the reason Wrestlemania was created in the first place? How about the ONLY cage match in Wrestlemania history? How about, like you said, slamming Andre? How about being part of the Mega-Powers explosion at WM 5? How about being a part of the second biggest hyped match ever vs. Warrior, second only to Hulk Hogan vs. Andre (with Hogan vs. Sting coming in at three)? How about that? How about his match with Rock?

He fought Warrior in a horrible match between two horrible wrestlers who hated to put other people over, EVER.

If by horrible, you meant arguably the greatest match in history, then yes, you are correct.

He temaed with Mr. T to fight, who? I don't remember and most people won't.

You may not remember, but that says more about your wrestling intelligence than it does Hogan's ability. Anyone with half a mind knows that it was Mr. T and Hogan vs. Orndorff and Piper, with the great Muhammed Ali at ringside as guest referee.

Perhaps you should learn your history of wrestling, when trying to engage in a debate of historical context.

He face the Rock. Ok That might be remembered, but the match wasn't anything special.

Nothing special...except being one of the hottest matches in Wrestlemania history.

All Hogan has is hype, and i think HBK actualy hit the nail on the head in his 05 fued with the Hulkster. He lives on a reputation from 20 years ago. HBK, he goes out every night and puts on a show.

Wait, wait wait.

Hulk Hogan is the biggest draw wrestling has ever seen, and HBK is arguably the worst championship draw the WWE has ever had, and you're trying to say that all Hulk Hogan is is hype? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

People will remember HBK. That i have no doubts of.

Only if the WWE wants them to. If they don't, in 20 years, HBK will be remembered in the same fashion as Ricky Steamboat. He'll be remembered by the people who watched him for years, but not by the people who started watching wrestling after he retired.

People remembering Hogan makes me sad, because he doesn't deserve it.

He doesn't deserve it? The very business that HBK has made his life from is the result of Hogan's decades of work. Merchandising, PPVs, mainstream attention are ALL by-products of Hulk Hogan. Without Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels wouldn't be where he is now. Anyone in the business will tell you that, even people like Bret Hart, who hates Hogan.

Hulk Hogan may have built the house HBK blew the roof off of night in and out, but the difference is that Hulk Hogan the character is what made Terry Bolea (that's Hulk Hogans real name) famous, and Vince was responsible for it entirely.

Bullshit. Seriously, learn your wrestling history. Hulk Hogan was mega over before he even came to the WWF. He was incredibly popular in both the AWA (where in-ring mechanics were VERY important), and in Japan.

Vince K. McMahon didn't give Hogan his ring name, Vince Sr. did. And, after a short stint in the WWF, Hogan went to the AWA, and eventually became one of their most over wrestlers, and if it wasn't for Verne Gagne's incredible stupidity, Hogan would have led the AWA to great heights, not the WWF. But Verne insisted on taking money from Hogan that he didn't earn, both from Hogan's incredible ability to sell merchandise, and from the money he made in Japan for being such an incredibly over talent (including becoming the IWGP champion after beating Antonio Inoki), and so Hogan dropped the AWA, and went to Vince Jr., who was smart enough to not get in the way of Hogan's superstardom. This nonsense that Vince was the reason Hogan was huge is stupidity at it's finest. Hulk Hogan was going to be a superstar, Vince just exploited it.

HBK the character helped get Michael Hickenbottom (HBKs real name) where he needed to be, but Michael the man took the character and made it his own.

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

No he didn't. Everything about HBK suggests being guided through his career. When the Rockers broke up, who was made to look stronger? HBK. When Michaels was heel, what manager did he get? Hall of Famer Sensational Sherry. When he worked in the midcard, he was given the IC title. He won back-to-back Royal Rumbles, including being the first man to win from the number 1 position. On the build to Wrestlemania 12, he was shown as clearly superior to Hart in terms of ability, as he was doing all this intense training, and Hart was getting beat up by his dad.

That part of your post, even more so than the rest, is complete garbage.

actually, Hogan did not create anything to do with Mania, or anything to do with his own character. Vince McMahon created Hogan the character, and created Wrestlemania.

First of all, Vince Jr. didn't create the Hogan character or even the Hogan name. Second of all, Hulk Hogan made his character, not anybody else. Finally, if Hulk Hogan wasn't such a huge draw, and wasn't such a mainstream name, Wrestlemania would never have happened.

Hogan was in the right place at the right time and deserve little to none of the credit he gets.

I hope you're 15 years old, because anyone older shouldn't be allowed to say such illogical and factually wrong things.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

HBK has had more great WM moments than Hogan by FAARRRRRR that will carry on.

As soon as I read this your post lost all credibility. I guess Hogan main eventing the first Mania wasn't a moment, or wrestling in the first and only cage match at Mania, or his showdown with Savage, or his historic match with Warrior, or him tearing the house down against The Rock and of course there was him competing in the biggest and most famous match in the history of wrestling against Andre The Giant. With the exception of possibly the Bundy match those moments are more famous and will be remembered more than anything HBK has ever done at Mania.

 

[joejoe]

I think we’re going off the subject a little bit here. The question isn’t who is the best wrestler in the WWE history or who had the best matches of a single year or who means more to wrestlemania. The question is “Who is Mr. Wrestlemania?” And first you have to define “Mr. Wrestlemania.”
From what the WWE is trying to sell to us the “Mr. Wrestlemania” title means the person that steals the show and has the best match on the card at that particular Wrestlemania. Even if the rest of the card is crappy you still have to judge who had the best match on that card.

For me this comes down to two wrestlers who can compete for this title. Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels. Again this isn’t a debate on who is the greater wrestler or who means more to Wrestlemania because Hulk Hogan wins that hands down and HBK isn’t even close. And like Sly Fox said actual moves have nothing to do with who is a better pro wrestler.

So lets break this down to see who has the most “best matches of the night” First we will go with Hulk Hogan.

Wrestlemania 1- We are going to skip this one because it was a tag team match and we will also skip all matches where HBK was apart of a tag team.

Wrestlemania 2 – Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy. This match is hands down the best on a weak card.

Wrestlemania 3 – Hulk Hogan vs. Andre. No one can deny the importance of this match in the history of pro wrestling but the best match on the card that night was Macho Man vs. The Dragon.

Wrestlemania 4 – WWF title tournament. Hulk didn’t have the best match of the night. That honor went to Macho Man vs. The Million Dollar Man.

Wrestlemania 5 – Hulk Hogan vs. The Macho Man. –Best match of the night for Hogan here.

Wrestlemania 6- Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior. No question Hogan wins it here.

Wrestlemania 7 – Hulk Hogan vs. Sgt. Slaughter. Sorry Hulk the honor goes to Macho Man vs. The Warrior.

Wrestlemania 8 – Hulk Hogan vs. Sid. Nope this one goes to the Mach Man vs. Ric Flair.

Wrestlemania 9 – Hulks in a tag match here so I’m not counting it Besides it goes to Bret/Yoko.

Wrestlemania 18- Hulk Hogan vs. the Rock. As a wrestling match its sloppy but it was the best on the card.

Wrestlemania 19- Hulk Hogan vs. Vince. This time you lose to Shawn Michaels vs. Jericho.

So out of the 11 Wrestlemanias Hulk Hogan has wrestled in he won best match of the night 4 times. (If we count tag teams he wins it 5 times for his role in Wrestlemania 1)

Next up Shawn Michaels. We’re going to start with his singles career.

Wrestlemania 8 – Vs. Tito Santana. No dice here Macho Man gets the win for match of the night here.

Wrestlemania 9 – vs. Tatanka. This Wrestlemania goes to Bret Hart vs. Yoko.

Wrestlemania 10 – vs. Razor Ramon. The first time Shawn Stole the show at Wrestlemania.

Wrestlemania 11- vs. Diesel. This was a bad Wrestlemania but Shawn did have the best mach on the card.

Wrestlemania 12- vs. Bret Hart. Although many think this match is over rated. Myself included it was the best match of the night.

Wrestlemania 14. vs. Steve Austin. Not the best match ever but the best match of the night.

Wrestlemania 19 – vs. Chris Jericho. In my opinion this match stole the show over Kurt Angle/ Brock Lesnar. A great match and best of the night.

Wrestlemania 20 – Triple Threat. It doesn’t count on this list and I think it is a bad match anyways.

Wrestlemania 21- vs. Kurt Angle. Sly may not think that this match is worth the hype and maybe he’s right but it is the best match of the night.

Wrestlemania 22- vs. Vince McMahon. If it wasn’t for HHH vs. John Cena it would have been match of the night but on this night Shawn has to settle for 2nd.

Wrestlemania 23 vs. John Cena. Although these guys have had better matches together this was the best on the card. Many will argue it was Batista vs. Taker but looking back and actually watching both matches HBK vs. Cena was the best on the card.

Wrestlemania 24 vs. Ric Flair. Entertaining? Sure but best of the night? Nope I’m giving that to Edge/Taker.

So out of 12 Wrestlemanias Shawn had the match of the night 7 times.

Compared to Hulk Hogans 4 or 5.

So who is Mr. Wrestlemania in terms of who had the best match of the night the most times? Well the numbers don’t lie it’s Shawn Michaels.

Again this isn’t who is the bigger star or had more meaningful matches at Wrestlemania its who stole the show on that particular card. When the WWE is hyping up Shawn as “Mr. Wrestlemania” they never once say that he is the biggest superstar in the history of Wrestlemania they just say he has the knack for stealing the show when he does wrestle on the card. And more often than not he does.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wrestlemania 10 – vs. Razor Ramon. The first time Shawn Stole the show at Wrestlemania.

And yet, it wasn't even the best match on the card. That honor went to Bret vs. Owen.

The ladder match is revered, not because it's a great match (although it is good), but because it's a ladder match. But, in terms of actual work, Bret vs. Owen blows it out of the water.

Wrestlemania 21- vs. Kurt Angle. Sly may not think that this match is worth the hype and maybe he’s right but it is the best match of the night.

No it wasn't. Both Taker vs. Orton and Money in the Bank were better. I'd say that Money in the Bank was the best match of the night.

Wrestlemania 22- vs. Vince McMahon. If it wasn’t for HHH vs. John Cena it would have been match of the night but on this night Shawn has to settle for 2nd.

Second? Not a chance.

HHH vs. Cena was better. As was Edge vs. Foley, and Trish vs. Mickie. HBK vs. McMahon was a terrible match. Heck, I would even put JBL vs. Benoit and the Triple Threat ahead of HBK vs. McMahon.

So out of 12 Wrestlemanias Shawn had the match of the night 7 times.

Compared to Hulk Hogans 4 or 5.

Wrong. Out of 12 Wrestlemanias, HBK had match of the night, at best, 5 times. Out of 12 Wrestlemanias for Hogan (after all, his tag team match was the main-event, unlike HBK's), had 5.

So, the best you can hope for is a tie, and when you factor in the magnitude of Hogan's matches vs. HBK's, not to mention all the tag matches HBK was in that weren't great, then Hogan has a better percentage of MOTN than HBK does.

 

[joejoe]

And yet, it wasn't even the best match on the card. That honor went to Bret vs. Owen.

The ladder match is revered, not because it's a great match (although it is good), but because it's a ladder match. But, in terms of actual work, Bret vs. Owen blows it out of the water.

No it wasn't. Both Taker vs. Orton and Money in the Bank were better. I'd say that Money in the Bank was the best match of the night.

Second? Not a chance.

HHH vs. Cena was better. As was Edge vs. Foley, and Trish vs. Mickie. HBK vs. McMahon was a terrible match. Heck, I would even put JBL vs. Benoit and the Triple Threat ahead of HBK vs. McMahon.

Wrong. Out of 12 Wrestlemanias, HBK had match of the night, at best, 5 times. Out of 12 Wrestlemanias for Hogan (after all, his tag team match was the main-event, unlike HBK's), had 5.

So, the best you can hope for is a tie, and when you factor in the magnitude of Hogan's matches vs. HBK's, not to mention all the tag matches HBK was in that weren't great, then Hogan has a better percentage of MOTN than HBK does.

The Ladder Match in my opinion was a better match than Bret vs. Owen. It enterained the crowd more, it meant more in the bigger scope of the WWF because Shawn was pushed even in a losing effort and the Bret/Owen match didn't do anything for Bret or Owen. Bret wasn't hurt by it and Owen wasn't pushed to any huge level.


Taker vs. Orton and HBK/Angle were two great matches. This comes down to personal preferance. Mine is HBK/Angle yours is Taker/Orton. I don't think you can put MITB in the same category as these matches because of the number of wrestlers involved.

You may think that HBK/Vince sucked but it entertained the hell out of me and made me laugh and I enjoyed my experience while watching the match. As a fan thats all I can ask for.

As a side note I would like to take pride in the fact that I wasn't ripped apart by SlyFox as many other on here are who try to argue with him.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Most of Shawn Michael's WM matches have been overrated. The Iron Man Match was boring for like 90% of it. He hardly did anything in the Triple Threat Match. Watching the match, you forget Benoit was in it even though he won it. I rank his match with Angle as one of my top three but that's mainly because of Angle. His match with McMahon was awful. The only match I think was worse was the Orton/Angle/Mysterio because it was so short. Even though I'm not a fan of Cena's he carried HBK to a great match at WM 23 and the Flair/HBK match was horrendous. If Flair wasn't retiring, nobody would have given two thoughts about that match. I bet the HBK/Taker won't live up to everybody expectations and that would be hardly Taker's fault as his past WM matches have been 10 times better than HBK's.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The Ladder Match in my opinion was a better match than Bret vs. Owen. It enterained the crowd more, it meant more in the bigger scope of the WWF because Shawn was pushed even in a losing effort and the Bret/Owen match didn't do anything for Bret or Owen. Bret wasn't hurt by it and Owen wasn't pushed to any huge level.


Taker vs. Orton and HBK/Angle were two great matches. This comes down to personal preferance. Mine is HBK/Angle yours is Taker/Orton. I don't think you can put MITB in the same category as these matches because of the number of wrestlers involved.

You may think that HBK/Vince sucked but it entertained the hell out of me and made me laugh and I enjoyed my experience while watching the match. As a fan thats all I can ask for.

As a side note I would like to take pride in the fact that I wasn't ripped apart by SlyFox as many other on here are who try to argue with him.

It doesn't matter how many wrestlers are in a match, it's how they perform what makes it so great. That MITB match was the best so far and pretty much was the highlight of a bad WM 21 card except for Angle/HBK.

It was a given that the HBK/McMahon match would be No Holds Barred because could you imagine being a straight up wrestling match. It would be worse than HBK/Flair.

 

[ulimate123]

The Ladder Match in my opinion was a better match than Bret vs. Owen. It enterained the crowd more, it meant more in the bigger scope of the WWF because Shawn was pushed even in a losing effort and the Bret/Owen match didn't do anything for Bret or Owen. Bret wasn't hurt by it and Owen wasn't pushed to any huge level.


Taker vs. Orton and HBK/Angle were two great matches. This comes down to personal preferance. Mine is HBK/Angle yours is Taker/Orton. I don't think you can put MITB in the same category as these matches because of the number of wrestlers involved.

You may think that HBK/Vince sucked but it entertained the hell out of me and made me laugh and I enjoyed my experience while watching the match. As a fan thats all I can ask for.

As a side note I would like to take pride in the fact that I wasn't ripped apart by SlyFox as many other on here are who try to argue with him.

If it meant a bigger effect in the WWE then wouldn't Hulk Hogan vs Andre at WM 3 steal the show going by your logic? Or is it because your a Michaels fan?

 

[Slyfox696]

The Ladder Match in my opinion was a better match than Bret vs. Owen. It enterained the crowd more, it meant more in the bigger scope of the WWF because Shawn was pushed even in a losing effort and the Bret/Owen match didn't do anything for Bret or Owen. Bret wasn't hurt by it and Owen wasn't pushed to any huge level.

Well, if we're going by "what a match means", then Hogan vs. Andre kills your argument. Bret vs. Owen was the much better match. It didn't need high spots to entertain the crowd, it did it with great match storytelling.

I don't think you can put MITB in the same category as these matches because of the number of wrestlers involved.

Then I don't think you're making much sense, because the number of wrestlers has nothing to do with the quality. In fact, the MORE wrestlers that are in the match, generally the harder it is to put on a great match.

The fact that MITB was so great with 6 individuals should respected, not dismissed.

You may think that HBK/Vince sucked but it entertained the hell out of me and made me laugh and I enjoyed my experience while watching the match. As a fan thats all I can ask for.

But WHY did it entertain you? Did it entertain you because of the good storytelling throughout the match? Did it entertain you because of the realism? Or the smooth transitions from big spot to big spot?

Or did it entertain you because it had big spot after big spot? That's my point, and that's why HBK vs. Vince sucked.

As a side note I would like to take pride in the fact that I wasn't ripped apart by SlyFox as many other on here are who try to argue with him.

Keep posting like this, and it won't take long.

Most of Shawn Michael's WM matches have been overrated. The Iron Man Match was boring for like 90% of it. He hardly did anything in the Triple Threat Match. Watching the match, you forget Benoit was in it even though he won it. I rank his match with Angle as one of my top three but that's mainly because of Angle. His match with McMahon was awful. The only match I think was worse was the Orton/Angle/Mysterio because it was so short. Even though I'm not a fan of Cena's he carried HBK to a great match at WM 23 and the Flair/HBK match was horrendous. If Flair wasn't retiring, nobody would have given two thoughts about that match. I bet the HBK/Taker won't live up to everybody expectations and that would be hardly Taker's fault as his past WM matches have been 10 times better than HBK's.

Yup.

If it meant a bigger effect in the WWE then wouldn't Hulk Hogan vs Andre at WM 3 steal the show going by your logic? Or is it because your a Michaels fan?

Great point.

 

[joejoe]

Just because I was entertained by Vince/Shawn over other matches on the card doesn't make me wrong. In your opinion it does sure but despite your best efforts your opinion doesn't reflect everyones.

Sly you brought up that at the very least its a tie for number of show stealing matches between HBK and Hogan so then couldn't it be argued that both HBK and Hogan are Co "Mr. Wrestlemania"?

Don't get me wrong I'm a much bigger Hogan fan than I am HBK fan but by the WWEs standards and the way they talk about Shawn as "Mr. Wrestlemania" that being the man who steals the show more often than not at its hard to argue with the fact that at the very least HBK and Hogan should be Co Mr. Wrestlemania.

It's hard to use a tie breaker here that is fair to both parties because Hogan is obviously the bigger star and meant more to Wrestlemania as an event but that's not what is being debated. What is being debated is who has stole the show more times?

As far as The HBK/Razor match or the Owen/Bret match I realized I contradicted myself there by saying that I preferred the HBK/Razor match because of the bigger scope and all I can say to that is I wasn't able to make a good enough argument other than I just liked HBK/Razor better.

 

[Queers and Steers]

The true Mr Wrestlemania is Hulk Hogan without a shadow of a doubt!
And here are the reasons why!

1) Hulk Hogan has basically main evented every Wrestlemania he has competed in, with the exception of WM4! WM 18 & 19 were clearly built around the matches that Hogan was featured in..WM18 being against The Rock, and WM19 being against Vince.

2) He has competed in more BIGTIME matches at Wreatlemania than any other wrestler in WWE history. The two biggest matches in Wrestlemania history are Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant, and Hulk Hogan vs The Rock. Both Phenomenal and they both transcended the business! He had great matches with Savage, Warrior, Slaughter, Vince!

3) His first title reign lasted through the first 3 Wrestlemanias, and he won the wwe championship at WM on 3 seperate occasions!

4) He set the standard for the calibre of a Wrestlemania main event! Just look at how big his matches were and who he faced: Andre the Giant, The Rock, Vince McMahon, Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man Randy Savage, Sid, Yokozuna, King Kong Bundy, and his WM1 tag match with Mr T against Piper and Orndorff.

5) The man is responsible for drawing the largest crowd not only in Wrestlemania history, but he set an indoor attendance world record that still stands today at WM 3 of 93, 173!
He also drew 70,000 plus at WM6, and 70,000 plus at WM 18, 63000 at WM 8.

6) He has main evented more Wrestlamanias than ANY OTHER WWE superstar in history!
Hulk Hogan main evented WM 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 18, 19
No other superstar has main evented 10 wrestlemanias!

7) He is synonymous with Wrestlemania...when one thinks of Wrestlemania they think of Hulk Hogan, the Real American music and the magic that Hogan brought to WM!

8) The ovations and pops he has received at WM are the biggest in history!
The ovation when he beat Andre at WM3, when he beat Vince at WM19, when he fought the Rock at WM18, when he won the title at WM9, his entrances at ALL Wrestlemanias.. they are responsible for being the biggest pops in WM history.

9) The first 9 WM were built AROUND Hulk Hogan! Enough said.

10) The man made Wrestlemania famous! Again...enough said!

11) The most memorable WM moment is Hulk Hogan slamming Andre!
A close second is the staredown between Hogan and The Rock!!

It can therefore not be denied, Hulk Hogan is the true Mr Wrestlemania!!!

well tecchniquely he didnt even conme close to ben one of the main events at 19. Austin vs the rock was the match before cvthe main event so it claim the secondary main event and hhh vs triple h was the other title match so it can also claim that. that hogan match has zero claim to that spot.
that leaves HHH and Hogan tied at 8. and all eight of HHH were the for the gold. p.s wm9 does not count as a main event i mean come on bret hart vs yokozuna was the main event. even the wWWE notices it as so

that being said its HBK in a no brainier. while hogan has had several great moments Michaels has had several great matches!! and isnrt that what matters most folks? id rather have a great match with some good moments than a crappy match with an great moment( I.E Andre was hogan that match was pathetically worked!!!) i mean vs razor vs hart, vs Kurt, Austin was good and would of been better but his back was completely effed up vs Cena was fabulous, vs Jericho was entertaining and very solid, his match with Vince was entertaining the crowd ate that up plus his match with Vince was ten times better than hogans and it was the best thing the whole night!
his match vs diesel was the best one of the night granted that was a shitty ppv that was the only solid match of the night(man eleven is only better than wm2) vs HHH and Benoit was absolutely sensational!!!! you cannot tell me that it would have been a bonified classic if it was just the game vs Benoit!

 

[ulimate123]

well tecchniquely he didnt even conme close to ben one of the main events at 19. Austin vs the rock was the match before cvthe main event so it claim the secondary main event and hhh vs triple h was the other title match so it can also claim that. that hogan match has zero claim to that spot.
that leaves HHH and Hogan tied at 8. and all eight of HHH were the for the gold. p.s wm9 does not count as a main event i mean come on bret hart vs yokozuna was the main event. even the wWWE notices it as so

that being said its HBK in a no brainier. while hogan has had several great moments Michaels has had several great matches!! and isnrt that what matters most folks? id rather have a great match with some good moments than a crappy match with an great moment( I.E Andre was hogan that match was pathetically worked!!!) i mean vs razor vs hart, vs Kurt, Austin was good and would of been better but his back was completely effed up vs Cena was fabulous, vs Jericho was entertaining and very solid, his match with Vince was entertaining the crowd ate that up plus his match with Vince was ten times better than hogans and it was the best thing the whole night!
his match vs diesel was the best one of the night granted that was a shitty ppv that was the only solid match of the night(man eleven is only better than wm2) vs HHH and Benoit was absolutely sensational!!!! you cannot tell me that it would have been a bonified classic if it was just the game vs Benoit!

So what exatly are these awesome matches that Shawn has had at WM and that Hogan hasn't? The only three stand-out matches are vs Kurt, vs Jericho and vs Ramon. Apart from that they've only ranged from bad-good.