Who really is Mr Wrestlemania?

[Whatsinaname696]

Hulk Hogan Bodyslams Andre The Giant, the only thing in wrestling to come close to that was the formation of the nWo.... HBK and Taker are amazing, but WM (and for that matter the popularity of pro-wrestling) is the house that Hogan built

 

[Version4]

I had to rank these guys on probably the most important aspect of "The Biggest Show in Wrestling"... the entertainment value. What's entertaining to you may suck to me and vice versa, but this is how I rank them:

1) Shawn Michaels- There weren't many people better on the big stage. Yes, he got booked with the Angles and the Benoits and Taker's, but I don't think that matters as much as the fact that those matches were just that great. Its like Seinfeld... does the audience think that Jerry Seinfeld sucks because his cast was just as good as he was? And his matches were probably the most entertaining I've witnessed at WM. Everything else has already been said.

2) Randy Savage- I love the fact that IC25 mentioned him. Savage put on some of the most entertaining classics at WM, and his pacing was phenominal! It's been said that he used to plan every single spot in his WM matches, all the way to the headlocks. I believe it, and his matches (especially the one with Warrior at WM7) justify me placing him at 2.

3) The Undertaker- Just on promos going into Mania alone, he gets the 3 spot. His matches are usually the most anticipated on the card at WM. My gripe is that the hype doesn't always translate into a great match (Gonzales anyone?). the last few years have been tremendous, and i actually liked Taker-Diesel (I know, I'm in the minority... I'm used to it).

I've got a better question... now that Michaels is gone, Taker is winding down, and there's no Hpgan or Savage to talk about... who might take the reigns as the new Mr. Wrestlemania? The new guy that will be THE reason to watch Wrestlemania? Although that might not be a topic for the old school section.

 

[Hazardous]

i understand WHY people are picking HBK, and will give credit to where credit is due, but for me personally, i wasnt always that big an HBK fan.. during the first Run of DX yes. for sure, but when i think Wrestlemania, i think Undertaker. when i was younger, i would order it pretty much JUST to watch the 'Taker match. and that hasn't changed to this day. with the build up to the matches? and yes, sometimes they dont deliver as planned, but really that has not been 'Takers fault each time, but rather his opponent. i agree with Version, i liked Undertaker/Diesel also, just watched it last night again, was a good match! yes, these past 2 WM have been the best matches of either man's career, and totally stole the show (look at HHH/Orton that followed. no one cared anymore at that point) but thats where it comes to personal opinion, is within those matches themselves, who stole the show for you? for me it was Undertaker, and there will be a few that agree, and a lot that will say HBK. neither answer is wrong, because i bet even if you were to go into the WWE locker room tomorrow and ask the wrestlers themselves, the answers would be split. Hell, asking shawn or 'Taker, obviously they're going to each say the other.

As for Hogan... i find Undertaker's entrances (and a few of HBK's as well) at 'Mania more entertaining then a lot of his matches. not saying all! but a lot.

 

[kurt_angle_no1fan]

Good question about who will be the new Mr Wrestlemania...probably deserves its own thread though so we dont off the original topic. I think in 10 years we will probably be saying Randy Orton.

Speaking of which, suprised not one person has mentioned Takers match with him at WM21. I thought that was an excellent match and very underrated. The chokeslam into the RKO was phenominal!

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm not going to try to debate between Shawn, Hogan, or Taker. I'd rather offer up a solid #4 and ask if you think this man could even tease a rise into the #3 spot. Randy Savage.

Savage "stole the show" with Ricky Steamboat at Wrestlemania 3.

Savage shocked us all by winning the WWF Title at Wrestlemania 4.

Savage turned heel mid-reign to drop the belt to Hogan at Wrestlemana 5.

Savage had a war with Ultimate Warrior at Wrestlemania 7.

Savage beat Flair for the WWF Title in an all time classic at Wrestlemania 8.

If you look at overall match quality, could you throw Savage into the discussion at least?

Randy Savage definitely deserves to be in the discussion. He was in the main event or co-main event for 3 of his 7 Manias and two of the times he wasn't in the main event, his match is the one that stole the show. He also has either been champion or left as champion in 3 of his 7 Wrestlemania's. The one thing that holds him down is the number of times he has appeared. He has only fought at 7 Wrestlemania's and only 5 of those were impressive or main event matches. He's in the discussion but still behind names like Hogan, HBK, Taker, and one more name I'd like to throw out there. Triple H.

All politics aside, just from a wrestling perspective Triple H has fought at 14 Wrestlemania's and been in the main event for 6 of them. He also fought for a world title at 2 more even though he wasn't in the main event. Match quality on the whole isn't overly spectacular but he has had some great matches against Taker at 17, the triple threat at 20, and I also thought his matches against Batista and Cena at Mania 21 and 22 were very good. A couple of really good mid card matches at mania 13 and 14 against Goldust and Owen Hart help as well.

 

[ted sheckler]

There is only one "Mr Wrestlemania".. and that is Shawn Michaels... There is no question... Shawn has put on more great matches at wrestlemania then any other performer in its history. He's had 8 matches at WM that have gone on to win match of the year.

To me the thing that makes Shawn Michaels heads and shoulders above is that his legacy at wrestlemania isn't because of the writers... or the booker... it's because of what HE does when he enters the ring.

 

[Mark0820]

You can take all of HBK's great matches and I'll raise you Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior, Hogan/Rock. Every one of those matches meant more and were more memorable than any match HBK had in his career.

 

[Jsaturn14]

You can take all of HBK's great matches and I'll raise you Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior, Hogan/Rock. Every one of those matches meant more and were more memorable than any match HBK had in his career.

Oh yeah, you are so right.....

The first big time Ladder Match against Razor Ramon at Wrestlemania 10, that meant absolutely nothing to the business, and is completely forgotten by everyone. That match didn't inspire people like the Hardy's and Edge and Christian who would later go on to perfect the ladder match concept. Nope, that didn't happen.

Oh, and what about the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania 12 against Bret Hart. That is such a forgettable match. Completely meant nothing to wrestling, nothing at all.

The First Hell in a Cell against Taker at Badd Blood 1997. Who the hell remembers that crap? That match so didn't have any impact on the business what so ever.

And don't even get me started on Kurt Angle vs HBK at Wrestlemania 21, a match that supposedly praised by pretty much anyone who has seen it as one of the, if not the, best matches in the history of professional wrestling. What are those people thinking?

Look, I am not saying that Hulk Hogan didn't have a huge impact on the business, and yes he did have so many great moments in the ring, but to say that HBK doesn't have matches and moments that aren't at least equal to some of the stuff Hogan did is INSANE! Lets get our facts straight before we post now, shall we?

 

[Hazardous]

just because the match ment something to wrestling history, doesnt mean it was due to hogan. if you know your history right, Hogan wasnt even supposed to BE who he is today. Tony Atlus was supposed to take the main event super hero role, but due to drug problems, it was given to Hogan. so would you be saying it was Atlus/Savage, Atlus/Andre ect? probably, about the same character. HBK was more than a character. HBK was who he is for real.. most of the time. as i said in my last post, i get more excitment out of watching Undertaker's 'Mania entrance then watching a Hulk Hogan match.

 

[The Idiot]

You're all forgetting Randy Savage! This guy stole the show on the first 8 Wrestlemanias!

WM 3 - One of the greatest maches of all time with Ricky Steamboat.

WM 4 - Wins the tournament to become WWF Champion.

WM 5 - Has a great match with Hulk.

WM 7 - Best match of the night with Warrior.

WM 8 - And another classic with Flair to win the WWF Championship.

Yeah...now put that list up against HBK's. No contest.

I'm one of the biggest Randy Savage fans around...but even I have to admit that Shawn was by far the better performer and was in more memorable Mania matches for a longer period of time.

Hogan wasnt even supposed to BE who he is today. Tony Atlus was supposed to take the main event super hero role, but due to drug problems, it was given to Hogan.

Atlas?? Wasn't that spot suppose to go to Barry Windham?

 

[Megatron]

Oh yeah, you are so right.....

The first big time Ladder Match against Razor Ramon at Wrestlemania 10, that meant absolutely nothing to the business, and is completely forgotten by everyone. That match didn't inspire people like the Hardy's and Edge and Christian who would later go on to perfect the ladder match concept. Nope, that didn't happen.

While that was a great match, that wasn't 1/10th as memorable as Hogan slamming Andre. Seriously.

Oh, and what about the Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania 12 against Bret Hart. That is such a forgettable match. Completely meant nothing to wrestling, nothing at all.

Hogan helping promote the first ever WM was miles more important to wrestling. Miles.

The First Hell in a Cell against Taker at Badd Blood 1997. Who the hell remembers that crap? That match so didn't have any impact on the business what so ever.

What does this have to do with being 'Mr. Wrestlemania?'

And don't even get me started on Kurt Angle vs HBK at Wrestlemania 21, a match that supposedly praised by pretty much anyone who has seen it as one of the, if not the, best matches in the history of professional wrestling. What are those people thinking?

That's one of the most overrated matches in WM history. It's not 5 stars. It's a glorified spotfest. Most of that blame should be on Angle, but it's partially HBK's fault as well.

Look, I am not saying that Hulk Hogan didn't have a huge impact on the business, and yes he did have so many great moments in the ring, but to say that HBK doesn't have matches and moments that aren't at least equal to some of the stuff Hogan did is INSANE! Lets get our facts straight before we post now, shall we?

Actually, not one thing that HBK has done at WM is even CLOSE to the Slam. Even HBK would tell you that. HBK may have some memorable moments to the diehard fans, but to casuals Hogan will always be apart of the most memorable moments.

Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania, no doubt. Without Hogan making it a success, Shawn doesn't have a chance to make all of those memorable moments. Simple as. Hogan helped create WM, and should be credited as Mr. WM.

 

[Hazardous]

actually, for the Hogan lover, if you REALLY wanna get down to it and say Hogan helped make WM and all that, i'll one up you... yes i have said Undertaker IS Wrestlemania, because when you say wrestlemania, first nae that comes to mind for 6/10 people is The Undertaker (i asked 10 people, thats why i say that) but since you say HBK couldnt have had his WM moments without Hogan, how about this...

MR. WRESTLEMANIA IS.... VINCE MCMAHON!

thats right i said it! VINCE is Mr.Wrestlemania, Without Vince there IS no hogan, there IS no HBK, and there is no wrestlemania.

Not only that, but he has put over 4 different men on the biggest stage of them all, his brain child.
Shane Mcmahon at WM X-7
Hogan at WM XIX
HBK at WM 22
and that HORRIBLE horrible "match" with Bret this past year.
also shaved his head at WM 23 after Lashley beat Umaga.
did he need to put them over? no i mean, this IS vince Mcmahon after all, doesnt have to do anything he doesnt wanna. but he did it anyway, and thats why im going to say that Vince takes the title.

 

[dman1373]

to ask who is mr. wrestlemania, you must first ask, what is wrestlemania about. Its about the over the top entrances[shawn having the best]. Its about celebritys[shawn's celebrity guests tyson and mcarthey were both better than mr. t. Its about moments [and while hogan has the slam, warrior, and the mega powers coliding and a few more shawn has ladder, ironman match, getting knocked out by tyson, getting kicked in the nuts by jericho, triple threat, angle match, elbow onto vince, carrying the 5 move wrestler, ending ric flairs wwe carrer, taker match, and the end of his carrer.] And finally its about sports entertainment. Now who will entertain you more? Obviously shawn. So this isn't a tough question. Now I have a question for all of you. Who is miss wrestlemania and better yet, who is mrs. wrestlemania.

 

[Davi323]

There are two Mr. Wrestlemanias. I think a very compelling case can be made that Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels BOTH deserve the moniker. I completely discount the damn streak, because that isn't the Undertaker, that is a booking decision only. Undertaker's streak is because he was picked to win what is a staged contest 19 years in a row. Actual wins and losses are irrelevant in pro wrestling. I am not bashing the Undertaker at all, I love his gimmick. But to base claims that he deserves to be Mr. Wrestlemania because of the streak, because of the pre-determined outcome of staged wrestling matches is unsupportable. The outcomes themselves don't matter. Its the matches themselves that matter.

Shawn Michaels' Wrestlemania career is well known. I won't go into the specifics of each match, because you know them all already. The only thing I can add to any discussion about Shawn Michaels and Wrestlemania is that I have always considered every Shawn Michaels match a main event. You had the title matches, you have the streak (which is still an interesting storyline, even if its a completely bogus way to judge Taker's merits at Wrestlemania) and you had the HBK match. Sometimes the HBK match was combined with other main events, sometimes not. But at Wrestlemania, HBK was always must-see TV for me. Shawn Michaels is Mr. Wrestlemania. However, HBK didn't really get that status until the mid 90s. Before that, there was Hulk Hogan.

Without Hulk Hogan, there is no Wrestlemania. In its infancy, Wrestlemania needed to have Hulk Hogan to generate the interest. The rise of PPV over what used to be closed circuit TV is due almost entirely to Wrestlemania's success, and Wrestlemania's success is due to Hulk Hogan. He wasn't in as many Wrestlemanias as Shawn was, but he was every bit as much a Mr. Wrestlemania. Any doubts about that should have died at Wrestlemania 18. In fact, if not for Hogan's match against the Rock, I probably wouldn't have called it a tie, I would have said HBK, period. But that match...that one match, should be proof of how much Hulk Hogan mattered to the granddaddy of them all. The fact that even as a heel, a continuation of Hollywood Hogan, and going up against the biggest face in the WWF, the Rock, that as soon as Hogan appeared at that entrance ramp, the crowd went absolutely APESHIT, and then continued for a good 5-10 minutes Hogan made his way to the ring, and stared down the Rock, showed just how beloved Hulk Hogan is at Wrestlemania. He was the bad guy, and the Rock was the clear cut good guy. But he is Hulk Hogan, and it was Wrestlemania. No other result than what happened was possible. Of course the crowd would turn on the Rock for one night, of course the crowd would cheer for their hero, the dastardly heel, Hulk Hogan. Of course their face/heel statuses would be completely switched for one match only. How could it have been otherwise? It was Hulk Hogan, and it was Wrestlemania. Hulk Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania.

 

[Megatron]

actually, for the Hogan lover, if you REALLY wanna get down to it and say Hogan helped make WM and all that, i'll one up you... yes i have said Undertaker IS Wrestlemania, because when you say wrestlemania, first nae that comes to mind for 6/10 people is The Undertaker (i asked 10 people, thats why i say that) but since you say HBK couldnt have had his WM moments without Hogan, how about this...

So because you asked 10 people you know and a little more then half said Taker, it's Taker?.... right...

MR. WRESTLEMANIA IS.... VINCE MCMAHON!

thats right i said it! VINCE is Mr.Wrestlemania, Without Vince there IS no hogan, there IS no HBK, and there is no wrestlemania.

No, he's not. Vince was not the one out there wrestling in the main events in the early WM's. He was just behind in the commentary booth. Hogan was the one that people wanted to see. While it was Vince's idea, Hogan was the reason why it was such a huge success.

Not only that, but he has put over 4 different men on the biggest stage of them all, his brain child.
Shane Mcmahon at WM X-7
Hogan at WM XIX
HBK at WM 22
and that HORRIBLE horrible "match" with Bret this past year.
also shaved his head at WM 23 after Lashley beat Umaga.

The only guy who slightly may have benefited from those victories over Vince is Lashley, and Lashley didn't even pin Vince, he just helped shave his head. The other 4 were either a) already established main eventers b) old timers past their prime or c) guys who weren't gonna be wrestling full time.

did he need to put them over? no i mean, this IS vince Mcmahon after all, doesnt have to do anything he doesnt wanna. but he did it anyway, and thats why im going to say that Vince takes the title.

He should have. What was he gonna gain from beating any of them? Vince may have an ego, but he know's that wrestling is a business, and him winning wouldn't do much for business.

Nobody has given me valid reasons why HBK is 'Mr. Wrestlemania'. Things that are subjective like 'most memorable moments' don't count either.

 

[harrythem]

HBK might be the show stealer at Wrestlemania but, there is no question that Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania. From slamming Andre to standing face to face with Warrior, Hogan WAS Mania. Even when he came back, he was mania at 18 and I still think his match with Vince was the best thing at 19 (I preferred the story to Jericho Vs HBK).

I'd also give props to Kevin Dunn as, with his production layout each year, he sure as hell makes sure Mania looks bigger and more...amazing, then anything else.

 

[Jsaturn14]

While that was a great match, that wasn't 1/10th as memorable as Hogan slamming Andre. Seriously.

Really? No moment of HBK's career is as memorable as Hogan slamming Andre? So, HBK coming off the ladder at Wrestlemania X, and splashing Razor, that isn't as memorable? That's funny, cause isn't that HBK moment used in the intro to every WWE program today, 16 years after it happened? Yeah, your right, Hogan slamming Andre is by far more memorable. Oh, and what about that whole "The Boyhood Dream has come true for Shawn Michaels" thing? Yup, nobody remembers that at all. Look, Hogan slamming Andre was a huge moment in the history of Professional Wrestling, and I am not taking anything away from it, but HBK has had moments that are just as memorable. To think otherwise, is just being ignorant.

Hogan helping promote the first ever WM was miles more important to wrestling. Miles.

Yeah, HBK inspiring the younger generation, like the Hardy's and Edge and Christian, by going out there and doing stuff that nobody had ever done before, that wasn't important at all. Thinking about the good of the business and the future is never important at all. Like I said, HBK's contributions to the Professional Wrestling business are just as important as Hogan's.

That's one of the most overrated matches in WM history. It's not 5 stars. It's a glorified spotfest. Most of that blame should be on Angle, but it's partially HBK's fault as well.

I disagree with this opinion entirely, and I have legit experts on professional wrestling agreeing with me.

Actually, not one thing that HBK has done at WM is even CLOSE to the Slam. Even HBK would tell you that. HBK may have some memorable moments to the diehard fans, but to casuals Hogan will always be apart of the most memorable moments.

Hogan is Mr. Wrestlemania, no doubt. Without Hogan making it a success, Shawn doesn't have a chance to make all of those memorable moments. Simple as. Hogan helped create WM, and should be credited as Mr. WM.

Okay, first off, Casual Fans have evolved since Hogan's days, and the casual fan does know who HBK is because of his accomplishments in the ring. Maybe 15 years ago the casual fan had no idea who he was, but they do now.

Secondly, all you got to support Hogan is one historic moment with him slamming Andre, and him helping to make the first Mania a success.....what about the other 8 times Hogan main evented Mania? How were those matches? Didn't Hogan wrestle Bundy at Mania 2 in the cage, and didn't that match suck? Honestly, how good was the match with Andre before the slam? Wasn't it just incredibly boring? Didn't Hogan get knocked out of the championship tournament at Mania 4 in the first match, how was that a great Mania for Hogan? What about Mania Eight when he wrestled Sid? How was that match? One historic moment is all you got? Saying that Hogan helped Mania become a success is all you got? Really, it was Vince having the courage to put on Wrestlemania in the first place, and it was Vince listening to the fans and booking Hogan in the right spots that made Hogan a success.

HBK is Mr. Wrestlemania because he is Mr. Consistent at the event. Sure, he may of had just some OK matches at the event, but he has never, ever, ever, ever, had a BAD match at the event. Hogan has, Taker has, but not HBK. Everytime HBK gets in the ring at Mania you know you are going to get something good. That is what makes HBK, Mr. Wrestlemania.

 

[mrbrownstone]

While Hogan was the one who put Wrestlemaina on the map and the man who has main evented the most WM's most of those werent classic matches but classic momnets like Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Rock. The Undertaker has the streak but much like Hogan only afew of the matches in 'The Streak' are classics the two HBK ones and the HHH match are the only three that come to mind. This brings me to HBK who in my mind truly deserves the title of Mr Wrestlemania. When you put together a list of the best WM matches of all time there are always about 5 or 6 HBK matches on that list, this is because HBK is the one person who always truly shines on the grandest stage of them all. Matches like HBK/Taker 1 and 2 HBK/Flair, HBK/Angle, HHH/HBK/Benoit, HBK/Ramon, HBK/Bret not only are these all classic matches but they are also classic moments which is why I feel HBK deserves the title of Mr. Wrestlemania.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have to go with Savage as Mr. Wrestlemania of the 80s/ early 90s and Michaels as Mr. Wrestlemania for the mid 90s and mid 2000s. Austin, Rock, Jericho, and Kurt Angle definitely held their own in the late 90's and early 2000 during Shawn's absence. We all know Shawn's recent classics against The Undertaker at the past 2 WrestleManias. Now that Shawn has retired, someone else will have to be put in the category. I guess you could go with the usual main event players of Orton, Cena, Jericho, or Triple H.

For the time being I would say the Undertaker has that position since he will be the main attraction to see. The nod could go to Jericho or a new protege like Swagger, Miz or even Danielson if he comes back.

The title of overall Mr. Wrestlemania should go to Savage but it will probably forever be known under Shawn Michaels.

 

[Megatron]

Really? No moment of HBK's career is as memorable as Hogan slamming Andre?

Yeah, pretty sure I've said this a few times now.

So, HBK coming off the ladder at Wrestlemania X, and splashing Razor, that isn't as memorable? That's funny, cause isn't that HBK moment used in the intro to every WWE program today, 16 years after it happened?

93,000 people (allegedly, idk if that's a real number or not) came to WM 3 JUST TO SEE THE SLAM. None of HBK's defining moments have drawn even half that.

Yeah, your right, Hogan slamming Andre is by far more memorable.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Oh, and what about that whole "The Boyhood Dream has come true for Shawn Michaels" thing? Yup, nobody remembers that at all.

I didn't say that at all. I gave him credit that the diehards, fans who watch it consistently, may remember that. But people who haven't watched the WWE in 15 years still know what you're talking about when you say the 'Slam'.

Look, Hogan slamming Andre was a huge moment in the history of Professional Wrestling, and I am not taking anything away from it, but HBK has had moments that are just as memorable. To think otherwise, is just being ignorant.

Try the biggest.

Yeah, HBK inspiring the younger generation, like the Hardy's and Edge and Christian, by going out there and doing stuff that nobody had ever done before, that wasn't important at all. Thinking about the good of the business and the future is never important at all. Like I said, HBK's contributions to the Professional Wrestling business are just as important as Hogan's.

Actually, it's quite well documented that Hogan inspired Edge and many more superstars then HBK. HBK's contributions pale in comparison to Hogans. Just ask Vince. If he doesn't have Hogan the wrestling industry is never lifted off the ground.

I disagree with this opinion entirely, and I have legit experts on professional wrestling agreeing with me.

It was a good match. But it's not the GREATEST WRESTLING MATCH EVARRR!!!11!! Like you make it out to be. Hart/Austin from 13 kills it.

Okay, first off, Casual Fans have evolved since Hogan's days, and the casual fan does know who HBK is because of his accomplishments in the ring. Maybe 15 years ago the casual fan had no idea who he was, but they do now.

You could walk down your street right now, go ask a fan who has never watched wrestling before, ask them if they've heard of Hulk Hogan, and the chances are that they have. I can't say the same for Michaels.

Secondly, all you got to support Hogan is one historic moment with him slamming Andre, and him helping to make the first Mania a success.....what about the other 8 times Hogan main evented Mania?

The Mega-Powers exploding and Hogan/Warrior are two of the biggest and best Mania main event matches in history. And you said it yourself, he main evented 7 of the first 8 Manias, followed by X-8. 8 career main events. Nobody else can say that. Especially HBK, who's done it, 6 times? But twice the stories weren't even about him, they were about Austin (XIV) and Benoit vs. HHH (XX).

How were those matches? Didn't Hogan wrestle Bundy at Mania 2 in the cage, and didn't that match suck? Honestly, how good was the match with Andre before the slam? Wasn't it just incredibly boring?

Well yeah they're gonna suck. Bundy was a terrible worker and Andre was on his last legs. Of course it wasn't gonna be a technical masterpiece. You'd be delusional if you thought those matches would be good.

Didn't Hogan get knocked out of the championship tournament at Mania 4 in the first match, how was that a great Mania for Hogan?

How about Tyson turning on HBK and siding with Austin at XIV? Or Michaels LOSING your sacred ladder match at X. Losing to Diesel at XI? Undertaker TWICE at 25 and 26. Cena at 23. His only memorable wins at WM were the Ironman and retiring Flair.

One historic moment is all you got? Saying that Hogan helped Mania become a success is all you got?

Mega-Powers and Hogan/Warrior were two of the biggest storylines in the late 80's, early 90's. And even if that was all Hogan had, at making Mania what it was, it still trumps HBK's accolades.

Really, it was Vince having the courage to put on Wrestlemania in the first place, and it was Vince listening to the fans and booking Hogan in the right spots that made Hogan a success.

Hogan was fucking over as a motherfucker. He could've killed a pregnant women and three children and they still would've cheered him. He was that fucking over with the crowd. That's why he's one of the top 2 draws in wrestling HISTORY. EVERYONE loved Hogan. Don't even try to deny it.

HBK is Mr. Wrestlemania because he is Mr. Consistent at the event. Sure, he may of had just some OK matches at the event, but he has never, ever, ever, ever, had a BAD match at the event. Hogan has, Taker has, but not HBK. Everytime HBK gets in the ring at Mania you know you are going to get something good. That is what makes HBK, Mr. Wrestlemania.

Ok, let's look at who Hogan's had to work with:

1 - Tag match with Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff - Piper was a good worker, Orndorff I haven't seen any of, but Mr. T was an actor, so yeah.
2 - King Kong Bundy - Pure shit.
3 - Andre - Way past his prime and had a hard enough time standing let alone wrestling.
4 - Andre again
5 - Macho Man - Great worker, and, as a result, great match.
6 - Warrior - Bad worker, but a great set-up and the crowd helped make it a great match.
7 - Slaughter - Haven't seen the match, but from what I've heard it was an above average match.
8 - Sid - Bad worker. Bad ME.
9 - Tag vs. Money Inc - Haven't seen, haven't really heard anything about it.
18 - Rock - Another solid worker, like the Warrior match, the crowd helped make it more memorable then what it would've been.

At least 5 bad workers, 2 tags, 1 great worker, 2 above average workers. Not the greatest amount of talent to work with. Let's look at HBK now, since WM X.

10 - Razor Ramon - Pretty good worker. Put him on the Rock's level as far as wrestling ability. Result: great match.
11 - Diesel - One of the better big men wrestlers ever, although I think he may have been a little green at the time. Still, more capable then Andre or Bundy.
12 - Hart - Top 10 worker ever.
14 - Austin - Both were hurt, but Austin still was a great worker.
19 - Jericho - Another top 20 worker ever in WWE history.
20 - Benoit, HHH - Two guys who'd crack the top 20 in WWE.
21 - Angle - Top 25.
22 - Mcmahon - Shitty worker. You got one.
23 - Cena - Rapidly improving, could go down as a top 20 worker.
24 - Flair - While aging, the storyline at hand helped make this a great match.
25 & 26 - Undertaker - Top 10 of all time when he can go.

So, basically HBK has had top talent to work with throughout his career, save McMahon, so it's clear as to why he's had some great matches. If you don't have great matches with the likes of Hart, Austin, Jericho, Benoit, HHH, Angle, Cena, and the Undertaker, then you do fucking suck. HBK's opponents were miles better then anything Hogan had except for Savage, yet, Hogan's matches are the most memorable ones. It's not like HBK was getting a poor worker to work with. Every single worker there could put on a great match, so obviously they were gonna get some memorable matches. But that doesn't change the fact that Hogans matches are more memorable to many of the casuals. That's just how it is when you're one of the biggest draws ever.

 

[Hazardous]

93,000 people (allegedly, idk if that's a real number or not) came to WM 3 JUST TO SEE THE SLAM. None of HBK's defining moments have drawn even half that

how about everyone who was at WM 26, and everyone all over the world who tuned in to watch... what? oh yeah, HBK's final match. Even Hogan himself said he watched WM for that match.

Try the biggest.

actually, to a lot of people who only started watching 10-15 years ago, the birth of the Stone Cold Era (WM XIV) as it also was the official birth of the Attitude era (so they say) is the most important, and biggest WM moment.

It was a good match. But it's not the GREATEST WRESTLING MATCH EVARRR!!!11!! Like you make it out to be. Hart/Austin from 13 kills it.

you're right, but neither was Hogan and Andre. acording to WWE.com, on the list of the top 24 Wrestlemania matches of all time, Number one is...
Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, Career-Threatening Match – WrestleMania XXIV

actually, of the top 24, Hogan:4, HBK:6. and Hogan's highest rated one was his last. against the Rock. so just because YOU think Hogan was the best at WM, does not mean the whole WWE universe (HAHA that name really does blow..) agrees with you, because that was who the matches chosen were from. Hogan vs Andre was 17th.

How about Tyson turning on HBK and siding with Austin at XIV? Or Michaels LOSING your sacred ladder match at X. Losing to Diesel at XI? Undertaker TWICE at 25 and 26. Cena at 23. His only memorable wins at WM were the Ironman and retiring Flair.

so now you're basing it off of a scripted event pre determined?

Hogan was fucking over as a motherfucker. He could've killed a pregnant women and three children and they still would've cheered him. He was that fucking over with the crowd

So by that notion then, you're saying Cena is now Mr.Wrestlemania. because at this point John could give the AA to a baby, and women and children are still going to scream for him. Cena is a carbon copy of Hogan, the exact same that HBK is a copy of Ric Flair.

 

[gers09]

to be Mr Wrestlemania it doesn't matter about the win/loss record what matters is what you do in the ring and what kind of performance you give and shawn gave 110% everytime and Wrestlemania even that last few years when he not been at his best at WM he still gave the best he could give and stole the show with who ever he was in the ring with

the match with ric why was that soo good HBK i am taking nothing away from ric in his day he was probably the best and will remain one of the best to ever step in the ring but he old shawn carried the match HBK made ric look as good as ever

 

[Miss Flawless]

Actually, it's quite well documented that Hogan inspired Edge

First of all, yeah Hogan did inspire Edge, but so did a lot of other people, like Bret Hart and yeah H - B - K. You know that TLC thing that E and C and Hardys and Dudleys started? Yeah HBK inspired that by jumping off a ladder. (If you don't believe me go to a book store and by "Adam Copeland on Edge.)

Second, are you inferring that you don't like Shawn Michaels??

Again, I think HBK is Mr. Wrestlemania. I already gave reasons why in my other post.

 

[Megatron]

how about everyone who was at WM 26, and everyone all over the world who tuned in to watch... what? oh yeah, HBK's final match. Even Hogan himself said he watched WM for that match.

Yeah, of course more people were gonna see 26 then 3 because technology has expanded and the WWE has expanded to every single part of the world. Back in the 80's they weren't as big globally as they are now. Duh.

actually, to a lot of people who only started watching 10-15 year ago, the birth of the Stone Cold Era (WM XIV) as it also was the official birth of the Attitude era (so they say) is the most important, and biggest WM moment.

Either way, it's inside the top 3.

you're right, but neither was Hogan and Andre.

I never said it was a great match, but it is one of the biggest drawing matches ever.

acording to WWE.com, on the list of the top 24 Wrestlemania matches of all time, Number one is...
Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair, Career-Threatening Match – WrestleMania XXIV

actually, of the top 24, Hogan:4, HBK:6. and Hogan's highest rated one was his last. against the Rock. so just because YOU think Hogan was the best at WM, does not mean the whole WWE universe (HAHA that name really does blow..) agrees with you, because that was who the matches chosen were from. Hogan vs Andre was 17th.

So you're gonna take the beliefs of a company that Shawn was working for at the time (I assume) and try and prove it as fact? I never denied that Shawn had great matches, but almost all of his workers but one are probably in the top 50 in US history. Hogan's opponents were... shit.

so now you're basing it off of a scripted event pre determined?

You did the same exact thing with WWE.com's list, which is completely kayfabe. You ask 100 people that aren't HBK marks (even ones that are logical) and 95 of them would say that Hart/Austin, Hart/Hart, Rock/Austin II, Steamboat/Savage, and Savage/Hogan were all better then HBK/Flair.

But back to your point, he tried to say that Hogan didn't have any defining moments except for the Slam, but all of their supposed moments for HBK actually had him losing, except for the Ironman and retiring Flair.

So by that notion then, you're saying Cena is now Mr.Wrestlemania. because at this point John could give the AA to a baby, and women and children are still going to scream for him. Cena is a carbon copy of Hogan, the exact same that HBK is a copy of Ric Flair.

No, because there's a clear amount of fans who despise Cena. Nobody, during the early years of WM (til about maybe 6-7) despised Hogan. So no. But he certainly could be at the end of his career.

And no, I'm not a HBK hater. I just don't jump to lick his balls like everyone else in this thread seems to do. I've actually enjoyed many of his matches. But he's not the be all, end all for wrestlers.

 

[WWEWrestleFest]

Hogan was the man when WWF was (in my opinion) at it's best.

When he went to WCW and HBK and Taker started headlining PPV's, the quality of the overall product suffered.

WrestleMainia was built on Hulkamania.