The Real Mr. Wrestlemania

[The Brain]

Your reply is who cares? Well, Steamboat and Flair cared. To be called THE BEST your peers have to agree. Its not just about the subjective point of view from a fan. The point that those matches were rehearsed was a big deal because wrestlers throughout history only went into matches knowing a few spots and the finish. You want to call Savage the best but he rehearsed every detail. That is a VALID argument that Savage's PEERS have against him. As a fan who cares but for someone to be called Mr. Wrestlemania and the BEST ever as you want to him, you must have your PEERS who know the tricks of the trade, supporting that claim and that is why it matters in judging who or who isn't the best. Savage was known for getting lost in matches that didn't go exactly how he rehearsed/discussed them. While others had the ability to adlib when things go wrong in the ring.

We are not peers of Randy Savage. We are fans of wrestling. If tomorrow someone came out and said Flair and Steamboat rehearsed their matches would you all of a sudden not like them as much? If Savage's mania matches were only as good as they were because they were rehearsed then I say it was a good idea to rehearse them. Savage had several great mania matches and the fact (if it is a fact) that they were rehearsed doesn't take anything away from them.

 

[Mazzaroti78]

We are not peers of Randy Savage. We are fans of wrestling. If tomorrow someone came out and said Flair and Steamboat rehearsed their matches would you all of a sudden not like them as much? If Savage's mania matches were only as good as they were because they were rehearsed then I say it was a good idea to rehearse them. Savage had several great mania matches and the fact (if it is a fact) that they were rehearsed doesn't take anything away from them.

Again, if you are going to say someone is greater or THE Best, you have to take into account what their PEERS and Co-Workers think of them. Fans are gonna make assumptions based on what we see but we don't know the trade at all. Therefore its important. Fan perception is subjective, that's why fans don't vote for the MLB, NFL or NHL hall of fame!

To enjoy a wrestling match its supposed to feel and look as real as possible and anything that removes that suspension of disbelief lessens the enjoyment. It's like watching a movie and seeing the body double in a poorly edited scene. You just go awww thats crappy. You don't go oh body double no biggie great movie! And you remember that scene and you notice it every time you watch that movie. Wrestling is no different.

 

[The Brain]

Again, if you are going to say someone is greater or THE Best, you have to take into account what their PEERS and Co-Workers think of them. Fans are gonna make assumptions based on what we see but we don't know the trade at all. Therefore its important. Fan perception is subjective, that's why fans don't vote for the MLB, NFL or NHL hall of fame!

To enjoy a wrestling match its supposed to feel and look as real as possible and anything that removes that suspension of disbelief lessens the enjoyment. It's like watching a movie and seeing the body double in a poorly edited scene. You just go awww thats crappy. You don't go oh body double no biggie great movie! And you remember that scene and you notice it every time you watch that movie. Wrestling is no different.

If Ricky Steamboat never said his match with Randy Savage was rehearsed you would have never thought it was. If you watched that match before Steamboat said that you probably thought it was a great match. The thought of it not looking or feeling real would have never entered your mind. I’d like for you to answer my question. If tomorrow Steamboat came out and said his matches with Flair all had to be rehearsed would you suddenly not enjoy them as much? Savage had big time matches at the biggest event of the year. What’s wrong with rehearsing them to make sure things go smoothly on the big stage? Would you prefer a lesser match if you knew he did it on the fly? You say fans are going to make assumptions based on what we see. That’s what I’m doing and what I think we should all do. Why should you enjoy a match less because of what goes on behind the scenes? You should judge things on what you see. Ric Flair doesn’t think much of Bret Hart. Bret Hart doesn’t think much of Ric Flair. Does that mean I shouldn’t think much of either?

Your movie example doesn't hold up. I never saw the body double with Savage. Your problem is it took him a long time to learn his lines. Once the movie is finished that doesn't matter to the viewer because it took place off camera.

 

[ilapierre]

I believe every big match of the past 8 or 9 years has been rehearsed in the PG generation. They might not say it or admit to it but it sure looks rehearsed. Taker vs Michaels, Michaels vs Cena, Michaels vs Angle, Michaels vs whoever. Every word out of Michaels mouth in that era was from a written script rehearsed. Does me saying shit like that make you all of a sudden discredit Shawn Michaels? It shouldn't. Even if a guy like Flair came out and said everything Michaels did in the 2000s was rehearsed it wouldn't mean shit. Michaels is a fucking fantastic wrestler and performer. Savage surely did plot out most his big matches but they were unpredictable unlike the every day stuff you see today. Does that make Savage better than Michaels? Nope. Wrestling is staged, that's the way it's always been, it's all rehearsed and a finish and plot development is always agreed upon beforehand.

Steamboat was an amazing wrestler and Flair put on great great matches. Steamboat never made it into World title territory in WWE. Even Ted Dibiase got into the World title picture. Flair, on the other hand, wrestled matches that were all the same, he never wrestled a match that strayed from his formula of hitting that turnbuckle, going for a run on the outside, bleeding, putting on the finger four leglock, falling flat on his face, yadda yadda. Sounds pretty rehearsed to me, guess that makes Savage a better wrestler than Flair since Savage was less rehearsed..strange logic..

As for PWI, their rankings are a bit fucked. Hogan was wrestler of the year or near the top way too much. During Savage's day it was all about guys at the top who couldn't wrestle. In Michaels day, it was all about guys like Flair or Hitman who could wrestle.
Had the same criteria of Michaels' generation existed in Savage's, i believe he'd have topped more PWI lists.

Another thing, i bet more peers of Randy Savage would say he was the better wrestling entertainer. The best entertainer who could also wrestle at a really high level. WWE hired guys (aka guys who appear on WWE tv periodically) wouldn't say it but older guys would. Go ask guys like Pedro Morales or Bruno or Bob Backlund or Sting or Lex Luger or Billy Graham or DDP or Hitman or Hogan or Piper or anyone not named Triple H. Those guys would pick Savage over Michaels. Not as the best in ring performer but as the better overall wrestling entertainer.

One last thing Mazzaroti: The Hogan/Michaels match was shit. Shit finish. The best part of that feud was the buildup. Classic. Michaels proved how entertaining he could be by mocking Hogan. He carried Hogan in the match but it was a shit match. Savage could have carried Hogan better though. Also, Savage's matches with Flair were much better than Flair's WWE retirement match with Michaels. The pomp and circumstance made it up there with Warrior vs Savage but the match itself, meh. Perhaps Michaels and Flair should have rehearsed more!

 

[god-soldier]

I think this is a great post. But I am only going to say this once get off HBK nut sac!!!!!! He claimed to be Mr.Wrestlemania but its definitely Savage. Macho Man had one of the best careers in WWE history especially during a time where Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair for grabbing all the attention of wrestling fans Savage came and made a name for himself even with 2 huge names completely in front of him. Macho Man made the best out of every opportunity given to him and out shined the main events and stole shows @ Wrestlemania. HBK didn't have a great wrestlemania match till 10 and at the time he was already in 5 wrestlemanias. HBK got a title run when there was no one else to give the belt too. His match at wrestlemania XI was a joke. PWI may have voted that match of the year but the only reason why that match won was because it was @ Wrestlemania there were a lot of matches in 95 better than that one. HBK winning his first WWE title @ WM XII was a great match however the moment wasn't really there you didn't get that real feel of a great championship win because 60 wins was over and the momentum of the match died down when sudden death was called into play. When Savage won at WM IV you felt that moment of a roller coaster ride from the first 3 matches up until the moment Savage held Elizabeth high holding the championship. HBK didn't give any real moments like that when Hogan and Savage embraced after WM IV. HBK makes his first title defense for a WM @ WM XIV sure he was injured and sure it launched Austin and the attitude era but was that title defense better than Savage first title defense for WM V. Reality says no the build up was better for the Mega Powers bout then the build up for Austin Michaels was surrounded by Mike Tyson there was no real tension between Austin n Michaels it was between Austin n Tyson. Mega Powers bout had a high tension over Elizabeth over who was the better man and who would be champion. They didn't need a celebrity to sell the match for the WWE title @ WM the 2 names involved sold that match. HBK retires and then comes back @ WM XIX wrestles Jericho good match didn't steal the show because Austin Rock III and Angle vs Lesnar took the shine. WM VII Savage stole show in the first ever and still the best career ending match to date against Ultimate Warrior the match was unbelievable great match with one of the best finishes and truly one of the best wrestlemania moments at the end and HBK still didn't give a moment like that was so real touching that you could feel the drama. HBK @ WMXX gave a great match again and Beniot became the victor the match was epic don't get me wrong but the moment for Beniot was feel it moment where you felt the best wrestler won the match and is now the best in world I didn't feel that moment when HBK beat Hitman instead you felt like he barely won this match and he got lucky and you knew in the back of your mind Bret should of won. Then HBK finally steals the show the first time since WM X when him and Kurt Angle battled was the best match in the last. 10yrs. HBK goes on to face McMahon @ the next wrestlemania which was trash another match that should have never got match of year then against Cena another crappy wrestlemania match. He faces Flair in a career ending match which was a good match but it was Ric Flair's supposed ed last match which brought all the prestige to sell the match. WM XXV his match with Taker was a great match definitely the best match in the past 3 yrs. In HBK final match his match with Taker didn't even come close to the year before. Savage match with Flair @ WMVIII had all the build up all the hype and stole the show @ WM VIII which is the second consecutive year in a row he stole the show something HBK couldn't do and the moment when Savage rolled up Flair and Howard Finkel announced him as the winner and once again the WWE champion that moment still gives me gooosebumps. Overall HBK n Macho Man have had some of the best matches in Wrestlemania history they are both legends and Hall of Famers but Randy Savage ability to real captivate crowds and audiences especially @ WrestleMania Savage however made his own spotlight and didn't wait for his turn when no one else was left to give the title that's the difference between HBK n Savage even @ WM when Michaels beat Bret still wasn't enough to real captivate audiences and sell tickets or get ratings. Even Savages second title reign even after Hogan retirement still sold seats captivated audiences and got ratings. I have to give Mr.Wrestlemania to Macho Man Randy Savage

 

[wrestling89]

Forget Mr. Wrestlemania, HBK wasn't even the best Rocker. If you look at any match or promo with the (Midnight) Rockers from the AWA or WWF, Marty Janetty was always the better guy on the mic and in the ring. Hell his (savat/cresent) superkick was far superior to HBK, just watch some matches between 87 - 91. A prime example would be Wrestlemania V against the Twin Towers. HBK was screwing up spots left and right (like the double drop kick off the top rope.) If it wasn't for the whole drug or partying thing, or whatever happened to make him NOT get pushed by Vince, he would be right there, if not on a higher level than HBK.

As for performances goes, people who actually saw the original broadcasts will remember Steamboat-Savage, WMIV, Hogan-Savage, Warrior-Savage, etc, etc far more than anything HBK did. The only reason more people remember what HBK did is because Vince shows more of his highlights at Wrestlemania than anyone else!

Either way, the point is moot. Mr. Wrestlemana is Hulk Hogan.

 

[ted sheckler]

I respectfully disagree with the OP. I love Savage one of my top 5 favorites of all time.. But lets not all lose our minds simply because the guy died. Savage had 3 truly great matches at Wrestlemania..against Steamboat, Warrior and Flair.

Now I think people are looking back with rose colored glasses in light of the death but realistically. Now not saying this is law but just a simple gauge here's all the guys performances at mania according to the Wrestling Observer
WM II vs George Steele *
WMIII vs Steamboat ****1/2
WM IV vs Butch Reed * vs Greg Valentine **1/4 vs OMG 1/2* and vs Dibiase **1/4
WM V vs Hogan **3/4
WM VI vs Dusty and Sapphire *1/2
WMVII vs Warrior****1/4
WMVIII vs Flair ****1/4
WM X vs Crush **3/4

and your telling me he deserves the title of Mr Wrestlemania more than HBK? A guys who's matches look like this
WM X vs Razor *****
WM11 vs Diesel ****
WM 12 vs Bret ****1/4
WM14 vs Austin ***1/4
WM19 vs Jericho ****1/4
WM20 vs HHH vs Benoit ****3/4
WM21 vs Angle ****3/4
WM22 vs Vince ***1/2
WM23 vs Cena ****
WM24 vs Flair ***1/2
WM25 vs Taker ****3/4
WM26 vs Taker ****3/4

Shawn Michaels keeps the title hands down.. Nobody has even come close to putting on the number of great matches he has had at Mania.. And as good as Savage was he can't lay claim to the name Mr Wreslemania. And he's not called it because he got penciled into the mainevent the most times or biggest name on the card.. he's called it simply because he stepped up his game and stole the show at almost every wrestlemania he's been in..

 

[MMK]

I respectfully disagree with the OP. I love Savage one of my top 5 favorites of all time.. But lets not all lose our minds simply because the guy died. Savage had 3 truly great matches at Wrestlemania..against Steamboat, Warrior and Flair.

Now I think people are looking back with rose colored glasses in light of the death but realistically. Now not saying this is law but just a simple gauge here's all the guys performances at mania according to the Wrestling Observer
WM II vs George Steele *
WMIII vs Steamboat ****1/2
WM IV vs Butch Reed * vs Greg Valentine **1/4 vs OMG 1/2* and vs Dibiase **1/4
WM V vs Hogan **3/4
WM VI vs Dusty and Sapphire *1/2
WMVII vs Warrior****1/4
WMVIII vs Flair ****1/4
WM X vs Crush **3/4

and your telling me he deserves the title of Mr Wrestlemania more than HBK? A guys who's matches look like this
WM X vs Razor *****
WM11 vs Diesel ****
WM 12 vs Bret ****1/4
WM14 vs Austin ***1/4
WM19 vs Jericho ****1/4
WM20 vs HHH vs Benoit ****3/4
WM21 vs Angle ****3/4
WM22 vs Vince ***1/2
WM23 vs Cena ****
WM24 vs Flair ***1/2
WM25 vs Taker ****3/4
WM26 vs Taker ****3/4

Shawn Michaels keeps the title hands down.. Nobody has even come close to putting on the number of great matches he has had at Mania.. And as good as Savage was he can't lay claim to the name Mr Wreslemania. And he's not called it because he got penciled into the mainevent the most times or biggest name on the card.. he's called it simply because he stepped up his game and stole the show at almost every wrestlemania he's been in..

You mean to tell me the Wrestling Observer gave a Diesel match a 4 star rating??? Wow. Well, I saw Wrestlemania 11 live and it was easily the worst wrestlemania in history. Even Shawn Micheals himself was disappointed in his match. He was genuinely pissed off at all those photographers that were around the ring during that match as they ended up getting in the way of certain spots.

All that matters to me is that Macho Man's matches were far more IMPORTANT and impactful to wrestling than Shawn were. Macho's matches were during the golden age. Shawn's best matches came against WWE era stars at a time when Wrestlemania isn't as a big of a deal. There's a ppv every month nowadays.

I agree that Shawn consitently performed at a top level. But I don't think that makes him the greatest Wrestlemania perfomer in history. Maybe he's the most CONSISTENT mania performer, but that doesn't mean as much to me as being the man who was at the center of, what are to me, the most IMPORTANT matches in Mania History.

Savage-Steamboat
Savage-Hogan
Savage-Warrior

To me those 3 matches are more important and relevant to the history of Wrestlemania than all of Shawn's.

I'm not saying Shawns best matches weren't as good. They're just simply not as important to the History Of Wrestlemania as Savage's best matches were. Angle, Jericho, Benoit, HHH, Diesel, Cena are all fine opponents. But can anyone honestly tell me with a straight face that they're as important and memorable as Savages clash with Steamboat, Warrior, or the mega powers exploding?

 

[MMK]

It's very important to factor in the ERA's these men wrestled in. Randy wrestled during a period when the WWF roster was loaded with legends and icons, names that have been cemented in history, and not just wrestling history, but mainstream pop culture as well. Savage competed in a time when nearly everyone was a showstopper. Whereas Shawn competed at Wrestlemania's where he was pretty much the ONLY showstopper. It's much easier to put on the match of the night and steal the show when you don't have any real competition.

Who else was gonna steal the show at Wrestlemania 10? Mable? Mo? Doink? Lex Luger? Think about it. Once you got past Shawn, Bret, Owen, the mid 90's was a wasteland of talent. Same goes for the mid 2000's. Cena, HHH, Batista. Not exactly the greatest in ring technicians. Even the guys who could wrestle like Benoit, Jericho, Angle, are only known to wrestling purists. They're not larger than life superstars whose names will ever be mentioned in the same breath as Steamboat, Hogan, Warrior.

To be able to steal the show at Wrestlemania 3, on a night when 90,000 plus were on hand to see Hogan vs Andre (the two most important names in wrestling history), is an unbelievable accomplishment.

Put it this way....think back to WM18 when Rock faced Hogan. That was to WM18, what Andre vs Hogan was to WM3. Now imagine someone upstaging, or at the very least, competing on par, with the Hogan/Rock match that same night. Imagine HHH/Jericho blowing Rock/Hogan out of the water. It didn't happen of course. But think about what a remarkable accomplishment it would be to steal the show away from the one match everyone came to see. Well, that's what Savage/Steamboat did at WM3. No one else has done anything like that at a Wrestlemania since.

Whenever Shawn has stolen the show, it's because he was supposed to steal the show. That's not a criticism of Shawn. It's a compliment to how good Macho was. You can only truly steal a show, if the show was not supposed to revolve around you.

Everyone who attends or watches a Wrestlemania now, goes to the event with one match in particular that they're tuning in for. Next year it will be Rock vs Cena. And at the end of every modern Mania, whatever that match is, is always the match that people remember.

But at Wrestlemania 3, that wasn't the case. To this day people debate which match was better. Some say Andre/Hogan. Some say Savage/Steamboat. The fact that they're even is a debate is a testiment to how good Savage/Steamboat was. There was never supposed to be a debate. That's the point.

And that one accomplishent is more impressive to me than any of Shawns matches.

 

[ted sheckler]

You mean to tell me the Wrestling Observer gave a Diesel match a 4 star rating??? Wow. Well, I saw Wrestlemania 11 live and it was easily the worst wrestlemania in history. Even Shawn Micheals himself was disappointed in his match. He was genuinely pissed off at all those photographers that were around the ring during that match as they ended up getting in the way of certain spots.

That Wrestlemania was pretty bad... I still think WM 9.. WM 2 and WM4 were worse though.. But although the over all show was bad his match with Diesel was quite good. I suggest you rewatch it.

All that matters to me is that Macho Man's matches were far more IMPORTANT and impactful to wrestling than Shawn were. Macho's matches were during the golden age. Shawn's best matches came against WWE era stars at a time when Wrestlemania isn't as a big of a deal. There's a ppv every month nowadays.

How exactly do you consider them more Impactful?? Because they happened at a time when wrestling overall was doing more money?? Since when is money the factor in art or entertainment? Are Pirates of the Carribean part 3 and Spice World better movies than Clockwork Orange??... because they made a hell of a lot more money..

Savage-Steamboat
Savage-Hogan
Savage-Warrior

To me those 3 matches are more important and relevant to the history of Wrestlemania than all of Shawn's.

But just because you deem them more important doesn't make it so.. Savage and Hogan was a big storyline and culminated in an average match at Mania.. What was so "important" about it??.. I remember watching it when I was a kid.. I loved it.. I was all in... I even was rooting for Randy.. but the Mega Powers exploding is hardly a groundbreaking event.. Simply one of the better done Hogan superhero runs at WM.

You site Savage vs Steamboat which was an amazing match.. one of the best ever.. But at the same time Shawn Michaels match with Razor Ramon at WMX was equally as important to the Company as anything Macho ever did. That match at the time became the new high water mark in WWF as far as brutality and athleticism and started a lot of the turning of the company and industry into a different direction.

Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels was no longer the larger than life walking cartoon days.. That was about athleticism and skill and it was finally showcased for the title at Wrestlemania. Providing of course 2 Iconic moments.. probably the greatest entrance in WM history and of course HBK clutching the belt to "The boyhood dream has come true!"

Austin vs HBK ushered in the Attitude Era and started WWE's comeback against WCW.

WMXX Arguably the greatest triple threat match of all time..

WM24 Iconic moment again with the retirement of Flair..

WM25 Arguably the greatest match in WM history

It's very important to factor in the ERA's these men wrestled in. Randy wrestled during a period when the WWF roster was loaded with legends and icons, names that have been cemented in history, and not just wrestling history, but mainstream pop culture as well. Savage competed in a time when nearly everyone was a showstopper. Whereas Shawn competed at Wrestlemania's where he was pretty much the ONLY showstopper. It's much easier to put on the match of the night and steal the show when you don't have any real competition.

Thats a bold Claim but Savage while having large than life cartoons to compete with didn't have many real performers.. To say Shawn was the only talented person in his group is flatout silly.. from WM X on when he first "stole the show" he has done it on the same card as Legends such as.. Bret Hart..Owen Hart.. Randy Savage..Undertaker.. HHH.. Warrior..Steve Austin.. The Rock..MIck Foley..Edge.. Chris Jericho.. Ric Flair.. Hulk Hogan..Kurt Angle..Eddie Gurerro..Chris Benoit..Brock Lesner..Bill Goldberg...


Savage was a great great wrestler.. He's just not Mr Wrestlemania

 

[King Patrick Star]

Some have already said this here, and it’s been said elsewhere, but the “Real” Mr. WrestleMania is none other than Hulk Hogan. If not for Hulk Hogan, there would be no WreslteMania.

Hulk’s First 9 WM.
WM – Hulk Hogan and Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper and Paul Orndorff
WM 2 – Hulk Hogan (c) vs. King Kong Bundy in a Steel Cage match for the WWF Championship
WM III – Hulk Hogan (c) vs. André The Giant for the WWF Championship
WM IV – Hulk Hogan vs. André The Giant (We know what happens at the end of this one)
WM V – Randy Savage (c) vs. Hulk Hogan for the WWF Championship
WM VI – Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior for the WWF and Intercontinental Championships
WM VII – Sgt. Slaughter (c) vs. Hulk Hogan for the WWF Championship
WM VIII – Hulk Hogan vs. Sid Justice
WM IX - Yokozuna (c) vs. Bret Hart for the WWF Championship (We know what happens at the end of this one)

Hulk Hogan Main Event 7 of the first 9 WrestleManias. The two that he didn’t Main Event, you still saw his face at the end of the Biggest show of the year.

Hulk’s Last 2 WMs.
WM X8 – Chris Jericho (c) vs. Triple H for the Undisputed Championship (We know what the “real” Main Event was)
WM XIX – Hulk Hogan vs. Mr. McMahon (This match was for who WM was all about. If that doesn’t answer your question…)

Shawn Michaels performs beyond great at the Grandest Stage of Them All.

Undertaker is Undefeated at the Grandest Stage of Them All.

Macho Man Randy Savage had the Greatest WrestleMania match ever and a few others that could be ranked in the Top 10 WM matches of all time.

BUT without the Real Triple H, Hollywood Hulk Hogan, HBK’s nickname would be Mr. Starrcade, Taker would be undefeated at Starrcade, and the Savage / Steamboat classic would have replaced Rhodes / Luger Steel Cage match for the United States Title at Starrcade 87. Well, maybe none of the above, but you get the point.

 

[The Brain]

Those who are arguing in favor of Savage keep bringing up WM3, WM5, & WM7. Those were all classic matches and deserve every bit of high praise they get, but Savage has more on his mania resume than just those matches.

Let’s not overlook WM4. That night was made for Savage. Beating four different opponents in one night was huge. Sure none of them were five star matches but Savage still shined bright on the big stage. At the end of WM4 Hulk Hogan handed the world title to Randy Savage. That was as big as it got.

Then there was WM6. Most people overlook this match and think of it as a silly gimmick. It was a gimmick but there’s nothing wrong with that. That was the first mixed tag match in WWF history. Younger viewers probably don’t think anything of it because the mixed tag match became very common. In 1990 it was unique and received a lot of hype. Not to mention Dusty Rhodes was Savage’s opponent. I’d say Rhodes is another impressive name on Savage’s mania resume.

WM8 should be getting a lot more praise. Savage won his second world title in a classic match against another huge name in Ric Flair. A great world title match against Ric Flair is being overlooked because of other classic matches Savage had. I’d say that’s proof right there that Savage was the original Mr. WrestleMania.

How’s that for a four year stretch of opponents? Hulk Hogan, Dusty Rhodes, Ultimate Warrior, and Ric Flair. That’s not even counting the world title tournament win and the classic against Steamboat. I’m not taking anything away from Shawn Michaels. I have no problem with HBK being referred to as Mr. WrestleMania. All I’m saying is Savage was Mr. WrestleMania before Michaels was.

 

[ted sheckler]

Those who are arguing in favor of Savage keep bringing up WM3, WM5, & WM7. Those were all classic matches and deserve every bit of high praise they get, but Savage has more on his mania resume than just those matches.

Let’s not overlook WM4. That night was made for Savage. Beating four different opponents in one night was huge. Sure none of them were five star matches but Savage still shined bright on the big stage. At the end of WM4 Hulk Hogan handed the world title to Randy Savage. That was as big as it got.

I hate to disagree Brain.. non of them were 5 star matches?? Thats an understatement.. 3 out of the 4 matches were flat out bad and the main event was average.. It has a good moment at the simply because Savage gets his first title and Hogans in the ring ect ect.. But other than "the moment" of Savage winning the belt nothing really stands out.

Then there was WM6. Most people overlook this match and think of it as a silly gimmick. It was a gimmick but there’s nothing wrong with that. That was the first mixed tag match in WWF history. Younger viewers probably don’t think anything of it because the mixed tag match became very common. In 1990 it was unique and received a lot of hype. Not to mention Dusty Rhodes was Savage’s opponent. I’d say Rhodes is another impressive name on Savage’s mania resume.

I'm sorry again... This match was flat out bad.. I understand that this was the first mixed tag but that still doesn't make it watchable. And on paper Macho Man vs Dusty sounds incredible.. but it just didn't turn out that way.

WM8 should be getting a lot more praise. Savage won his second world title in a classic match against another huge name in Ric Flair. A great world title match against Ric Flair is being overlooked because of other classic matches Savage had. I’d say that’s proof right there that Savage was the original Mr. WrestleMania.

Agree 100%.. This is my second favorite Savage match at WM. I think that this deserves more praise and WM5 deserves less. The Mega Powers explode was mostly just built on hype were I felt the Flair match told a great emotional story.. and still holds up today as something special. A true forgotten classic.

I have no problem with HBK being referred to as Mr. WrestleMania. All I’m saying is Savage was Mr. WrestleMania before Michaels was.

To me that just seems too forced..I think Mach had 3 of his 7 WM he really stole the show and gave us matches that will stand the test of time.. and The reason that I have a problem referring to Hogan as "Mr Wrestlemania" is that what he did at Mania was created for him... all the famous things we remember was written and booked. Shawn's legacy at WM is about what HE did in the ring an the amazing performances he gave rather than him just being booked in the main event to win year after year.