True Mr Wrestlemania

[WrestlingHistorian]

That's like Cena not being able to become Mr. WrestleMania in year's to come, just because he was a young boy when the first few occurred.

People focus on current wrestlers more than they do older ones. Hogan was Mr. Wrestlemania from 1985-1993. But it's 16 year's later now and his impact has diminished even for people who grew up watching him.

I must disagree here, what Hogan has done is legendary and sadly, a good chunk of people who watched wrestling in the 80's and early 90's don't seem to0 watch any more, some do, but this generation has ushered in the smart marks and the "What!" chanting fans who are more of a black eye on the sport than a help. Hogan cemented his legacy on pro wrestling and on WrestleMania and will always be remembered for it. So for the first half of WrestleMania I would call him Mr. WrestleMania without any doubt.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I must disagree here, what Hogan has done is legendary and sadly, a good chunk of people who watched wrestling in the 80's and early 90's don't seem to0 watch any more, some do, but this generation has ushered in the smart marks and the "What!" chanting fans who are more of a black eye on the sport than a help. Hogan cemented his legacy on pro wrestling and on WrestleMania and will always be remembered for it. So for the first half of WrestleMania I would call him Mr. WrestleMania without any doubt.

The people who watched wrestling then but don't know don't really count. Because they're not vocal about him being the real Mr. WrestleMania. As such threads like this and their outcomes will always be won by current wrestlers.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

You have got to be kidding me. Have you only watched wrestling for a couple of years, or...? Even now, with that match being the most recent, people know Shawn more for his WM 10 ladder match with Ramon, his amazing "best match of all times" match with Angle at WM 21, or his Iron Man match with Bret Hart at WM 12. Off the top of my head I can name you every WM match Shawn has ever had, because they've all been great.

So I guess you consider HBK v. Vince to be great because that was awful. I get the nostalgia about the HBK/Flair match but the match itself was horrendous. At the end of the day, I believe he's only as good as the opponent he is facing. If he is great as you say he is, those two matches would have been a whole lot better and HBK/Hart is the most overrated match I have ever seen.

 

[WrestlingHistorian]

The people who watched wrestling then but don't know don't really count. Because they're not vocal about him being the real Mr. WrestleMania. As such threads like this and their outcomes will always be won by current wrestlers.

I will agree that todays fickle fans and most of the "internet" crowd may forget, but Hogan has gotten some votes from people who have posted in this thread, so people still remember. Anyone in their mid to late 20's and 30's should remember, and remember fondly as Hulk Hogan has created so many classic "Mania Moments" that anyone else getting the nickname of "Mr. WrestleMania" is almost laughable. But as far as today's talent goes, from 1993-current, i'll give it to Shawn or Undertaker....

 

[Slyfox696]

It's not Undertaker. Just because management decides to make him win, doesn't mean he's been anything special. The majority of his matches have been terrible.

It's not Shawn Michaels. People talk about how he "steals the show" all the time, but that's crap.
WM 8 vs. Tito was terrible.
WM 9 vs. Tatanka was average.
WM 10 vs. Razor is good, but overrated because of a gimmick.
WM 11 vs. Diesel was the best match on a terrible show (and the match was only decent).
WM 12 vs. Hart sucked (and that's coming from a huge Hart fan)
WM 13 vs. his smile was a joke
WM 14 vs. Austin was good
WM 15, 16, 17, 18 - Wasn't there
WM 19 vs. Jericho was good
WM 20 vs. Triple H and Benoit was crap
WM 21 vs. Angle was decent, but incredibly overrated
WM 22 vs. McMahon sucked
WM 23 vs. Cena was good, but he's had two matches with Cena better
WM 24 vs. Michaels was crap

When you look at the list of the matches he's had that have been actually good, he barely has The Ultimate Warrior beat. And he's never had a match as good as Warrior vs. Savage.

The only true answer is Hulk Hogan. He's had HUGE matches, GREAT matches, he's had MEMORABLE matches and is the reason Wrestlemania even exists. Hulk Hogan is the answer.

 

[Milkyway!]

I was just watching the WM 21 match with angle/HBK last night. It wasn't that great. Shawn was very botchy in the match. That cross body, was seriously a shoulder plow into angles mouth. The only two good parts of the wrestling match were, Angle's moonsault, and watching Shawn Micheals tap. Otherwise, this is the most overrated match I have ever seen in the history of the business. There was nothing that just jumped out and said !!!!BEST MATCH EVER!!!! It was just a good solid match.

 

[BlitzSage]

I would hate to go against Taker, since he's my favorite wrestler ever. But you got to say Hogan. He invented Wrestlemania and took it to it's highest levels. He really dominated the first Manias, and he was the champion during most of them.

I do have to say this though, The fact that the Deadman has been to 16 Manias, only missing two, undergoing numerous gimmick changes and face/heel turns, and has remained undefeated is amazing.

 

[jj34]

A lot of the people making arguments for Hogan are making some good points and like I said in my first post on this topic if you were to go just by drawing power of matches and who historically has helped Wrestlemania the most it's easily Hogan. However my criteria for this includes quality of matches on top of the other stuff. Look at Hogans more famous Mania matches and compare them to HBK's famous Mania matches
Hogan_________________________HBK
1) Mania 1 tag team___________1) Ladder Match vs Razor
2) vs Andre___________________ 2) Iron Man vs Hart
3) vs Macho___________________3) vs Jericho
4) vs Warrior__________________4) Triple threat at mania 20
5) vs Slaughter________________5) vs Angle
6) vs Rock____________________6) vs Flair

Even if you think most of HBK's matches are overrated I don't think anyone can deny that in terms of match quality HBK has the superior list and that to me is why he wins this debate.

 

[Slyfox696]

A lot of the people making arguments for Hogan are making some good points and like I said in my first post on this topic if you were to go just by drawing power of matches and who historically has helped Wrestlemania the most it's easily Hogan. However my criteria for this includes quality of matches on top of the other stuff. Look at Hogans more famous Mania matches and compare them to HBK's famous Mania matches
Hogan_________________________HBK
1) Mania 1 tag team___________1) Ladder Match vs Razor
2) vs Andre___________________ 2) Iron Man vs Hart
3) vs Macho___________________3) vs Jericho
4) vs Warrior__________________4) Triple threat at mania 20
5) vs Slaughter________________5) vs Angle
6) vs Rock____________________6) vs Flair

Even if you think most of HBK's matches are overrated I don't think anyone can deny that in terms of match quality HBK has the superior list and that to me is why he wins this debate.

Actually, when I look at that list, I disagree completely. I would take the Ladder match over the Tag Team, but I would take Andre, Macho, Warrior, and Rock over their counterparts. Which means that Hogan wins 4-2. And, the BEST HBK could hope for would be a tie at number 3 with Macho and Jericho.

 

[jj34]

Actually, when I look at that list, I disagree completely. I would take the Ladder match over the Tag Team, but I would take Andre, Macho, Warrior, and Rock over their counterparts. Which means that Hogan wins 4-2. And, the BEST HBK could hope for would be a tie at number 3 with Macho and Jericho.

That is perfectly fine, match quality varies from person to person some people prefer chain wrestling, some high flying spot fests, others hardcore wrestling and so on. That's why I ended my post by saying to me HBK is Mr Wrestlemania because everyone is always going to have their own opinions on what is a good match and what isn't, and I certainly don't believe I can or even want to for that matter change people's mind on this topic. The fact is you could debate this forever because both guys have legitimate claims.

 

[Skillz]

To the people who are suggesting Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker, all I can say is congratulations. You have been completely worked by the WWE, so give yourselves a nice pat on the back.

I mean seriously, Hulk Hogan has done more for Wrestlemania and has been involved in more memorable/important/classic matches than both Undertaker and Shawn Michaels combined.

 

[jazzua]

To the people who are suggesting Shawn Michaels and The Undertaker, all I can say is congratulations. You have been completely worked by the WWE, so give yourselves a nice pat on the back.

I mean seriously, Hulk Hogan has done more for Wrestlemania and has been involved in more memorable/important/classic matches than both Undertaker and Shawn Michaels combined.

Haha. And for some reason you don't think that believing Hogan has had more memorable moments doesn't make you worked by WWE? It can go both ways. All in all it doesn't really matter. A classic moment from one's standpoint is always different to another's. The truth is no one can stand up to Hogan's BIG WrestleMania matches. Nobody has ever been able to be at the top like he was for so long during the WM run. Many have been in more WM, but nobody has main evented like he did. While I will never consider Hogan a great in-ring wrestler he is, however, the best performer ever. And really, isn't that what wrestlings all about?

When you look at HBK he didn't really start to shine until WM X. The reason why I will go with Michaels here is because he didn't need to be in the main event to claim his stake at WM. Michaels has put on some solid to great matches at the event. In my opinion he has the best resume compared to everyone else. But again, that will go different way with everyone. It just depends what you like.

The Undertaker streak is obviously the only reason he is considered. I don't think his matches have been much to look at. Not that the WWE really ever gave him much to go off of until recently anyway. In the end though, he'll be remembered for the streak more than anything.

It all boils down to whether you think Hogan or HBk put on better shows respectively. The problem there, like with every bulletin, is it's almost 100% opinion. I go with HBK because he has entertained me more.

 

[HHH=The Peoples King]

Hogan_________________________HBK
1) Mania 1 tag team___________1) Ladder Match vs Razor
2) vs Andre___________________ 2) Iron Man vs Hart
3) vs Macho___________________3) vs Jericho
4) vs Warrior__________________4) Triple threat at mania 20
5) vs Slaughter________________5) vs Angle
6) vs Rock____________________6) vs Flair

the Angle match was only so "popular"/"overrated" because the star power but it wasnt a good match acctually quite boring if you ask me

i say Hogan

 

[AgeOfOrton]

The Undertaker the streak says it all
hes won 3 world titles at wrestlemania
hes made people from havin amaizing matches with them

 

[jj34]

Hogan_________________________HBK
1) Mania 1 tag team___________1) Ladder Match vs Razor
2) vs Andre___________________ 2) Iron Man vs Hart
3) vs Macho___________________3) vs Jericho
4) vs Warrior__________________4) Triple threat at mania 20
5) vs Slaughter________________5) vs Angle
6) vs Rock____________________6) vs Flair

the Angle match was only so "popular"/"overrated" because the star power but it wasnt a good match acctually quite boring if you ask me

i say Hogan

In my book the match is slightly overrated but that does not mean it is a bad match. I just watched this match a couple nights ago so it is fresh in my mind. Great chain wrestling in the beginning nice brawling in the middle some very nice moonsaults by both guys, tons of false finishes with the crowd hanging on every move at the end. You can say the match starts out boring but that is them just building the match like I said by the end of the match the crowd is in a frenzy and you truly did not know who was going to get the victory. I'm by no means saying it's the greatest match of all time or anything like that which some people do and that is why I think it's a tad overrated it is though a great wrestling match.

 

[musgrove0311]

either hogan or undertaker
Hogan- had some of the best moments ever at mania
Undertaker- 16-0, how can u argue wit dat?

 

[MoneyShot]

Hogan_________________________HBK
1) Mania 1 tag team___________1) Ladder Match vs Razor
2) vs Andre___________________ 2) Iron Man vs Hart
3) vs Macho___________________3) vs Jericho
4) vs Warrior__________________4) Triple threat at mania 20
5) vs Slaughter________________5) vs Angle
6) vs Rock____________________6) vs Flair

the Angle match was only so "popular"/"overrated" because the star power but it wasnt a good match acctually quite boring if you ask me

i say Hogan[/QUOTE




Im sorry but how was the angle match BORING?

It might not be as good as some say but it was still great, by no means boring. If anything Hogan's matches are boring, when you look back on them. Honestly if you take storyline and drama out of Hogan's matches they blow.
I think HBK is hands down Mr. Wrestlemania. The streak isn't an argument cause creative decides that.

Hogan is a close second because he was in the memorable matches and had amazing draw power. But I think HBK takes it because in almost every single Mania he is involved at the end of the night you are saying "Wow, the HBK match stole the show" plus he draws well not as good as Hogan but he still drasws.

So when you put everything together (Draw power, match importance,match quality w/o storylines, and show stealing ) I think it is hands down HBK and then I think either HHH or Hogan is second.

Here is my ranking for MR. WRESTLEMANIA
1) HBK
2)Hogan (slight edge)
3)HHH
4)Undertaker
5)Randy Savage

 

[rowdy ruben]

the undertaker is the true mr. wrestlemania. hbk nd taker should wrestle for the name at this years wrestlemania

 

[apedosmil]

I'd say let's just do this, but first what about honorable mentions, bret hart(1-13 consecutive) battle royal at 4, vs piper at 8, vs owen(top 10ish match) and yoko at 10, iron man at 12, vs austin at 13, jeff hardy(2000,17,18,23) ladder spot at 2000 is a top 10 moment and match, 17 was awesome as well, HHH(12-22 consecutive) heel at 2000 thing, vs taker at 17, vs jericho at 18, vs-hbk-vs-benoit at 20, made batista at 21, badass match at 22, Randy savage(2,3,4,5,6,7,8,10) vs steele at 2, top 5 match vs steamboat at 3, awesome story and good main event at 4, awesome match vs hogan at 5,roddy piper(1,2,3,6,8,12,) first ever main event, boxing match vs mr. t, adrian adonis thing, morton downey jr thing, bad news brown angle, vs bret hart, goldust match, Edge is on his way(2000,17,18,21,22,23,24)wins at 2000, wins at 17 nice spear spot from the ladder, money in the bank at 21, gave foley and himself a match and moment at 22, cena too(20,21,22,23,24)all of cenas matches at wrestlemanias have been classic excluding last year and I'm no cena ****e, you just gotta give it up, he's nipping at hogan taker and hbk's heels.

this is really close but I've gotta say it's HBK by a small margin.

HBK Hogan the Undertaker

5-w/marty-vs-twin towers, 1-w/mr.T-vs-piper&orndoff 7-vs-jimmy snuka
pretty good not their best 1st wm main event blah cool and good match
not the most memorable match classic moment no classics

6-w/marty-vs-orient express 2-vs-bundy 8-vs-Jake Roberts
these teams have had better never saw the match can't classic match classic
matches always good not a really comment ominous after match
classic dominant moment

7-w/marty-vs-haku&barbarian 3-vs-andre 9-vs-Giant Gonzales
good performance for hbk, but good match all things classic entrance, blah bs
still not a classic considered huge moment match bad mania
with the slam
8-vs tito santana 11-vs-Bundy
good once again not a 4-vs-andre no classics
classic bs finish thing
interference for savage 12-vs-Diesel
9-vs-tatanka not good not classic file this under the sid vs
bad wrestlemania hogan category very
decent match no classic 5-vs-savage underwhelming
good buildup good match
10-vs-razor ramon one of the best of either 13-vs-Sid
instant and enduring man's career one of the classic entrance, good
classic flawless workrate most logical and anticipated match classic title pose
one of the very best main events in wm history moment at a
wrestlemania matches top 10ish classic match clusterfuckstastickly
ever one of the very best no particular moment though builtup wrestlemania
matches, classic moments
such as the splash, counts 6-vs-warrior 14-vs- Kane
double against most other very good match alot of good,match, classic
classic moments or matches intangibles and you couldn't finish awesome but
see one losing classic match corny buildup top
11-vs-Diesel classic moment top 10 all top 10ish moments
1st wm main event pretty around
good match all things considered 15-vs-Bossman
overshadowed by L.T. and bam 7-vs-slaughter one of the only stale
bam blah match, just no points in his career
just no it was time
12-vs-bret hart 8-vs-Sid for a change it's to
awesome match awesome finish pretty damn anticlimactic his credit that he
awesome entrance dream matchup realized that
instant classic career peak all in 9-w/beefcake-vs-money inc
one night & bullshit after the main event 17-vs-HHH
was anyone not sick of hogan very good match
14-vs-Austin by then?... just no low top 20ish classic
this was scsa's moment but hbk
was a part of it, had he been in 18-vs-the Rock 18-vs-Ric Flair
top condition, this match would pretty awesome and surreal neat idea, cool AA
have outshined austin's wm13 match better than anyone spot for a big pop
and hbk's wm12, as it was it was could have hoped for classic not a classic
still a classic w/scsa's 1st title classic handshake moment
and the tyson knockout, also 19-vs-show&A-train
the stunner/chin music finish 19-vs-vince just no
very cool buildup and hype
19-vs-jericho and promos and montauges 20-vs-Kane
classic, not a top 10 but a classic very entertaining match very cool buildup
not a classic anything blah match no
20-vs-HHH-vs-Benoit classics
whether WWE wants to aknowledge Wrestlemanias: 11
it or not the match and finish and Classic mathces: 6 21-vs-orton
celebration was a top 10 classic Classic moments: 6 the only time I
this is hbk's new role and it is a Magnitude of classics: thought the streak
classic the highest might end low top
20ish classic match
21-vs-angle
instant classic, one of the very 22-vs-mark henry
best wrestlemania matches ever ya know hogan and
one of his and angle's best taker are the only
matches ever on my personal guys who had guys
top five, so many good spots built up just to feed
and transitions, the ankle lock to them, nah maybe
sequences were intense and Cena too, just no
suspenseful, the horror movie
like rise to the ankle lock, the 23-vs-Batista
sudden sweet chin music when Overrated match to
angle was trash talking, I don't me but pretty good
believe it gets much better than classic moment for
that. the win

22-vs-mchmahon 24-vs-edge
a match vs a mchmahon is pretty good match,
always gonna be a big production but these two's
but although I hate these kinds matches always fell
they pulled it off, not a classic short of their
but the ladder spot may be a top potential to me no
20ish moment classics

23-vs-Cena Wrestlemanias: 16
pretty solid, nice rub for cena classic matches: 4
nice finish easy to get invested classic moments: 6
in both characters, good buildup magnitude of classics
(Royal Rumble he and taker being not as much it's all
the last two) a classic about the streak, I
say his finest
24-vs-Ric Flair moment and/or
nice buildup good match sappy match comes this
but good finish very fitting end year
for flair a 20ish classic

Wrestlemanias: 15
Classic Matches: 8
Classic Moments: 5
Magnitude of classic
moments and matches:
Pretty damn high

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

i got nothing but respect for shawn michaels he tears down the show.....but the undertaker deserves it the most for his streak....and i mean he aint beating joe schemo here at wrestlemaina.....lets look at the people...1. Jimmy "supa fly" Snuka 2. Jake the snake 3. giant gonzales 4.king kong bundy 5. kevin "deisel" nash 6. syhco sid 7. Kane (twice) 8. the big boss man 9. hhh 10. ric flair 11. big show & a train 12. randy orton 13. mark henry 14. batista 15. edge.......these guys are lite weights and could argue that have of them are in or going to be in the HoF and u always know ur going to see something special happen in his matchs just like shawns.....well except that big show & a train one.

 

[ThePeoplesChampion]

And who is going to be talking about Shawn Michaels at all let alone being 'mr. Wrestlemania'. At least people, new or old still know about Hogan he has left a legacy behind whereas although Michaels has had some great matches at WM he is only going to remembered for his Retirement match against Flair.

oh hell no! shawn michaels is the first grand slam champion ever.....he has great matches not only at mania but most the time everywhere....hogan is not even near shawn's league in wrestling skills.....wat was hogans moves anyway.... a slam, boot, and leg drop oh my! please don't diss shawn like that....all hogan is the right guy at the right time!

 

[DD84]

Undertaker. This is for the obvious reason that he is undefeated. He owns Mania. He may of not of always put up the best match, but he has always walked out with a win and at the end of the day thats all that matters.

Another option is the one and only Vince McMahon.
If there is no Vince, there probably no Mania. It is his brain child. He created Mania and he can also end. He also seems to always be involved in Mania. Can't wait to see what he does this year with Orton.

 

[Slyfox696]

oh hell no! shawn michaels is the first grand slam champion ever.....he has great matches not only at mania but most the time everywhere....hogan is not even near shawn's league in wrestling skills.....wat was hogans moves anyway.... a slam, boot, and leg drop oh my! please don't diss shawn like that....all hogan is the right guy at the right time!

The right guy at the right time...what time was that? 1979-1992? 1995-2000? 2002-2003? Which exactly of those "right times are you referring to? That's stupid.

Want to talk about right guy, right place, right time? Look no further than HBK. He was champion for two reasons. Steroid scandals, and all the main-event talent in WCW. THAT is the right guy right place right time.

Hogan is every bit the worker HBK is, and three times more entertaining. Moves have nothing to do with wrestling quality.

Anyways, HBK can't touch Hogan in terms of Wrestlemania greatness.

 

[image1986]

Here we go with the hbk bashing god forbidd we talk about hogan overrated matches at mania.The quality matches hogan had at mania is a short list because they are fairly predictable and pure hype. I give hogan credit he carried mania in the beginning stages but the event evolved and became better once he left so hulkamaniacs let it go geez he not mr wrestlemania. Second to defend undertakers streak the wwe really didn't pay too much attention to him winning matches at mania until he hit 10 so he was build to beat monster heels that was it. Once the wwe focus the streak he had then it became to focus of mania and made it an attraction but you right I love taker but he's not mr wrestlemania. I believe shawn michaels is mr wrestlemania because one his matches if they weren't the main event were better than the main event itself every year. To the person who say things about grimmick matches he has been in to my knowledge he was only in 2 gimmick matches at mania so how was he in so many? His matches in addition were great quality because of his opponent as well and told stories that very few wrestlers did at mania. Even wrestlemania 25 with hbk vs taker will trump any main event the wwe can come up with because of hbk being involved in the match. Hbk can lose every mania and still be considered the best wrestler at mania because he is that good in the ring. He doesn't even need a title involved to hype the match. People can hate on his matches and have an opinion but facts don't lie his matches every year at mania has either been 1# of the year or runner up so hulkmanics whatcha gonna do brotha when hulkmania has to bow down to the showstopper the icon the main event mr wrestlemania the heartbreak kid shawn michaels

 

[Slyfox696]

Here we go with the hbk bashing

Why is it anytime someone gives the truth about HBK it's considered "bashing"?

The quality matches hogan had at mania is a short list because they are fairly predictable and pure hype.

Predictable? So you knew who was going to win between Andre the Giant (who was billed as undefeated) and Hulk Hogan? You knew that Hogan would beat Savage? You knew that Warrior would take down Hogan? You knew that Hogan would go over the new and impressive Sid Vicious in his retirement match? You knew that Hogan would end WM 9 as the champion? You knew that Rock would beat Hogan at WM 18? That's ridiculous, because you DIDN'T know.

And pure hype? Damn right they were. And they were great matches to go along with the great hype.

I give hogan credit he carried mania in the beginning stages but the event evolved and became better once he left

Which is why Rock vs. Hogan is one of the most memorable matches in WM history? Which is why after Hogan left, they had the worst WMs in history at 9, 11, 12, and 13? Silly statement.

I believe shawn michaels is mr wrestlemania because one his matches if they weren't the main event were better than the main event itself every year.

Owen vs. Bret was a "main event" of WM 10, and the ladder match can't touch Owen vs. Bret. The only other time you can make that statement is WM 19, but that whole card was a letdown.

His matches in addition were great quality because of his opponent as well and told stories that very few wrestlers did at mania. Even wrestlemania 25 with hbk vs taker will trump any main event the wwe can come up with because of hbk being involved in the match.

You're right. A match that hasn't happened yet, will be better than all the other matches.

Hbk can lose every mania and still be considered the best wrestler at mania because he is that good in the ring.

No, he's not that good. He's essentially a one trick pony. He takes a beatdown for the majority of the match, and then he goes to the finish. HBK has VERY weak offense.

He doesn't even need a title involved to hype the match. People can hate on his matches and have an opinion but facts don't lie his matches every year at mania has either been 1# of the year or runner up so hulkmanics whatcha gonna do brotha when hulkmania has to bow down to the showstopper the icon the main event mr wrestlemania the heartbreak kid shawn michaels