The New Era Of Posters Fucking Suck
- Thread starter Monkey_Mania
- Start date
Hell. As long as you actually know what pro-wrestling is all about, I could give fuck all about anything else. Type in all caps, spell every other word wrong, it doesn't matter. But when you try to claim that John Cena is a worse pro-wrestler than RVD, I'm going to have to fuck you up. It's mandatory.
Hyorinmaru
Sit Upon The Frozen Heavens
RVD>John Cena
Seriously
Seriously
X said:
True, true. I find it odd that I'm considered a casual fan even though I'm obsessed with wrestling.
How so? In terms of buy rates, merchandise sales, how much he's over with the crowd, actually good matches, mic skills? Oh, wait. Cena beats him in every single category.
If RVD hadn't been arrested and had even half of the push that Cena has received, I have no doubt he'd be on the top of the WWE right now. Do you remember the INSANE reactions RVD would get from the crowd? Even when he debuted and was a heel, he was still one of the most over people on the entire roster. RVD, in my opinion, exceeds Cena in every category you can judge a wrestler. I don't see how you're booked being an important factor in your quality as a wrestler. Cena is talented no doubt, but if booked correctly RVD could be in his place easily, perhaps even to larger heights.
Okay? But Cena at this point, in his career, is infinitely better than RVD. Not "RVD could have been this" or "RVD could have been that." I'm arguing definite happenings here.
Cena has outsold and outperformed RVD. Hell, have you seen the ratings when Cena's gone? They dip a whole half a point. Then, when he returns, they surge again. RVD can't claim that, can he?
I still think there was a ton of bias that went into not making RVD THE top face on Raw in 2002. He was, in 2001 and 2002, more over than Jeff Hardy EVER was. The man was on fire. Considering that Raw was pretty much without a top face at that point (Kane, Booker, and Steiner were dropped quickly. None were as over as Van Dam. Michaels couldn't work fulltime.), RVD should have been elevated. It was basically Trips vs. a bunch of midcarders when, instead, Van Dam could have been a top face defending against Trips, Jericho, a heel Steiner, and so on. Instead, Trips refused to let Van Dam take the next step and dropped to Michaels? Meh.
Sure. You can argue that. But that doesn't take into account the whole "Cena has outsold RVD tenfold" thing. Or the "Cena carries Raw" thing.
..RVD was good, no lie. But he isn't Cena good.
I really don't understand that attitude that drawing power/buy-rates determine who is and isn't a good wrestler. That's a load of horse shit, Flair and Harley Race never drew half the people that Cena does, and I sure as fuck wouldn't say Cena is a better wrestler than those two.
Take this comparison: Do you consider the best actor to be the one who's movies sell the best? It's the same kind of craft that a wrestler uses. Using that logic, we can assume Arnold Schwarzenegger is one of the greatest actors of all time. Not exactly true though, is it?
In all of the skills that define a wrestler, RVD is better than Cena in my opinion. Drawing power means jack shit in relation to how one applies their craft in the ring and on the microphone. Or should we start proclaiming Batista a legend?
As far as the draw or being made a sustainable main eventer? Nope, not at all.
As far as the quality of the match? Van Dam gets a raw deal quite a lot. What I will say is that Van Dam does the basic Cena match AT LEAST as well as Cena. His selling of beatdowns was fantasic when he was having his good nights, and at his best he was very easy for the crowd to get behind leading towards a red hot comeback and finish. He never had the kind of matches Cena's had with Umaga, Michaels, or Jericho, but I do think Van Dam is undersold when it comes to his wrestling.
Pro wrestlers do a few things. They wrestle, and they sell tickets to the matches. How do they sell tickets to the matches? They tell a story in the ring and get the crowd to give a shit. If you can't get the crowd to give a shit and buy your tickets, you suck as a wrestler because you aren't doing your job.
Acting is different, because the production companies sell the movies themselves. The actor acts, then goes home. In wrestling, the crowd has a direct conduit to the wrestler and connects with him much more intimately. Tarrantino can sell me Vin Diesel in a ballerina costume for an hour and a half if he makes it cool enough. McMahon can't sell me Chavo vs. Hornswoggle unless Hornswoggle and Chavo make it interesting enough.
And that is why drawing power matters as a wrestler. You can mat wrestle for 60 minutes? Okay. That doesn't matter when you can't get the crowd to give a shit about your matches. No one is going to see them. And, in this aspect, Cena more than has RVD beat.
Ring skills and mic skills are more debatable, I'll give you that.
He trys to hard to be liked/funny/interesting, while he isn't any of those things. Therefore, he comes off as a douche, which he very well may be.
I think the bar room has been rather entertaining, today at least.
BTW, I wonder where Monkey would consider me in the forum hierarchy, interested to find out.
Let Sly answer...
Let Sly answer...
Let Sly answer...
Better than Mr. Kennedy.
FromTheSouth
You don't want it with me.
I thought you were a new person this whole time. Who'd you used to be?
Ring skills and mic skills are the basic tools of a wrestler that gets them over. If RVD had been given the push Cena is, he'd be as successful. It's as simple as that, you're using the logic that Cena is at the top of the game right now because he's the best. This isn't athletic competition where you can definitively prove who is and isn't the best at what they do, it's all up to the backstage politics of who McMahon thinks is marketable. Clean cut Cena is a lot more marketable than violent pothead RVD. Simple as that. RVD still managed to get reactions that would rival any of Cena's during his WWE tenure.
What you're basically telling me Razor, is that John Cena is better than Harley Race or Ric Flair or Terry Funk. And sorry, I'm not buying that, not for one minute.