greggminnis
New Member
Actually, there was one time in WCW that Randy Savage did beat Hogan. Now it wasn't a one-on-one match. It was at War Games and it was down to Hogan and Savage. Hogan actually elimiated himself giving the title to Savage.
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Poop Master Flex
Mid-Card Championship Winner
No I don't ever recall Savage beating Hogan clean (he has beaten him before but never cleanly). It's not really all that surprising, the amount of people who have actually beaten Hogan clean can be counted on 1 hand and most of the people he put over clean was in 2002, before that the only people he put over clean (from what I can remember) was Warrior and Goldberg (you may also count Sting, but every time Sting beat Hogan there was some sort of BS involved). In the 80's and 90's Hogan didn't put ANYBODY over and IMO there are alot of people he probably SHOULD of put over and didn't (Bret Hart, Mr. Perfect, Yokozuna, Ted Dibiase all should of had at least 1 clean victory over Hogan, especially Hart and Dibiase) but unfortunately Hogan was in a position where he could basically choose who he wanted to beat him. I believe Hogan should of also put Macho Man over in at least 1 contest cleanly, but once again not a surprise, just typical Hogan bullshit.
The only time Hogan was ever pinned cleanly in the ""WWF"" was by the Warrior wasn't it
Now that is a ridiculous statement. How you can you be a repeat champ if you are never beat for the belt? Undertaker pinned him for his first title run and again later. Hell, the Rock pinned him clean at Wrestlemania. HHH has a win, Kurt Angle even has a submission win. I understand where you guys are coming from but to say that Hogan NEVER loses clean is kinda crazy.
But to answer the original question, no, I can not recall a specific match. It seems like I remember a time during the whole Zeus angle when Savage may have picked up a clean win but I don't think so.
Now that is a ridiculous statement. How you can you be a repeat champ if you are never beat for the belt? Undertaker pinned him for his first title run and again later. Hell, the Rock pinned him clean at Wrestlemania. HHH has a win, Kurt Angle even has a submission win. I understand where you guys are coming from but to say that Hogan NEVER loses clean is kinda crazy.
But to answer the original question, no, I can not recall a specific match. It seems like I remember a time during the whole Zeus angle when Savage may have picked up a clean win but I don't think so.
CraigThe13th
Pre-Show Stalwart
Undertaker cheated to beat Hogan so no, it's not a ridiclous statement to make. The only other losses in the 80s and 90s in WWF I remember was Yokozuna and Andre and they both cheated too. All the wrestlers you listed were when Hogan return in the 2000s. Name me one match Hogan lost clean apart from the Warrior from 1984 to 1993.
name me someone that Bruno Sammartino lost cleanly to from 1963-1971! Sometimes champions are supposed to win. I have never been a huge Hogan fan and I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this argument, but the Hogan issue is crazier than the John Cena fad. It seems like its just the cool thing to do. Bashing Cena and/or Hogan all the time (and usually with the same argument) is beyond me. Bottom line is 90% of old school fans would have never known that wrestling was on TV if not for Hogan and the same goes for 90% of the new school fans with Cena. (I can't believe I just made a pro argument for this guy). Where in the unwritten code of conduct for wrestlers does is state that you HAVE to lose. I have never understood this. How does anyone that Vince refused to let him lose? Why destroy your biggest cash cow?
hogan is the greatest
Occasional Pre-Show
hogan nay not have lost a match cleanly in the 80s. the first match he lost cleanly was to warrior in 90,but why should he lose there was nobody worthy of beating him.higan made wwf he was wwf hell he was bigger than wwf all together. warrior beat hiom cleanly and we saw what a disaster that was so what happened they had to put the belt back on hogan so why not be on the safe side and leave the belt on hogan thats a sure win. hogan was and hell still is for that matter bigger than pro wrestling it self. everybody knows the hogan name.more people know hogan than the president of the country, by the hulk hogan is still the only wrestler in history to be on the cover of sports illistrated yea my point exactly i rest my case. there is only one king of pro wrestling.
Evolution10
Dark Match Jobber
So im sitting here watching the Best of Saturday Nights Main Event, and im curious about something... How many other wrestlers over the course of their title reigns, switched from Face/Heel or vice versa, im referencing of course Randy Savage from 89 when the Megapowers exploded. And just so everyone is on the same page, im not talking like, Diesel, for example, loses the title and becomes a heel because hes pissed off he lost, or Austin as another example, who aligns with mega heel McMahon to win the belt, im talking someone who is already the champ, and turns face/heel while on his reign. Help!
Why Always Me
WWF Champion
does anyone either have a you tube link or know the name of the piece of music that they used when the hell in a cell used to be lowered??? (they also used it when showing austin and hbk backstage before the WM14 main event, and for mankind and triple h before summerslam 1999? thanks
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
Randy Orton did it when Evolution turned him face the night after he won the belt. CM Punk made the switch during his second run with the belt and so did Brock Lesnar (in 2002 he became a tweener and then fully turned face during his fued with the Big Show)
Does anyone know why the WWE version of the NWO disbanded back in 2002? I don't remember there ever being a real reason why they broke up. Were they causing problems backstage?
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Nash was hurt when he was brought back and literally in the first 4 seconds of his first match back he tore his quad and was out for a lot longer. Hall got drunk on a flight to the UK and raised all kinds of hell and got fired for that. That left Flair, X-Pac, Big Show, Booker and Shawn. Shawn wasn't back from injury yet. It took about 2 seconds to realize that's nothing like the NWO so they just dropped it. Pac got released, Flair just drifted around, Show went to Smackdown and Shawn started his comeback.
oogieboogie
Occasional Pre-Show
Now back in the early 90's when i first started to watch WWE there was no way for me to know what actually went on behind the scenes. I would only know what was shown on Superstars, Prime Time, Wrestling Challenge and the PPV's.
Now it wasn't until i saw the Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior, did i realise why UW disappeared after SS 91. Now according to Vince, UW held him to ransom otherwise he was gonna no show. So Vince paid him. But according to UW, he was asking for money he was already owed from Wrestlemania. Now from what i have read that is where it ends. Vince hasn't denied what UW says and UW has said he was asking for what he was owed.
Does anyone know anymore on this? Or is this one of those situations where we will only know what has already been said.
Oh on another note, i wasn't aware that at SS 92, Bret was meant to drop the intercontinental title to Shawn. But this was changed when the PPV was relocated to the UK.
Now it wasn't until i saw the Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior, did i realise why UW disappeared after SS 91. Now according to Vince, UW held him to ransom otherwise he was gonna no show. So Vince paid him. But according to UW, he was asking for money he was already owed from Wrestlemania. Now from what i have read that is where it ends. Vince hasn't denied what UW says and UW has said he was asking for what he was owed.
Does anyone know anymore on this? Or is this one of those situations where we will only know what has already been said.
Oh on another note, i wasn't aware that at SS 92, Bret was meant to drop the intercontinental title to Shawn. But this was changed when the PPV was relocated to the UK.
Anyone know what happened to Gangrel?
This is a guy the WWE dropped the ball with. Great gimmick. Great entrance. Great finishing move and was a decent performer. If they could make the Undertaker and Kane gimmicks work...I don't see why they couldn't with Gangrel.
This is a guy the WWE dropped the ball with. Great gimmick. Great entrance. Great finishing move and was a decent performer. If they could make the Undertaker and Kane gimmicks work...I don't see why they couldn't with Gangrel.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
SOrry for the delay. Didn't realize I missed it. From what I understand, Warrior more or less demanded more money to go on for that night. I don't recall Mania being involved. Typically you can't trust Warrior's word as he tends to be insane and schizophrenic on these kinds of things. From what I've heard, Warrior more or less said pay me X or I'm not going out there. Vince had to pay.
My guess would be a combination of a lack of talent and as you said, Kane and Taker had gimmicks that were over the top already. Plus, Edge and Christian took off while Gangrel didn't at all. he was released due to his weight if that means anything.
Gangrel lived in Rhyl with Luna Vachon for a while. If you've ever been to Rhyl, you might see how amusing that prospect is. He was doing a lot of indy shows in the UK as "Vampire Warrior" about 5 years ago, and someone told me he was directing porno now, which wiki seems to confirm.
Does anyone know why the macho man didn't come out to be in the 91 royal rumble? i think he was number 18, the buzzer went off and no one ever came out, and monsoon said later on that it was supposed to be the macho man.. Was this supposed to be part of a storyline, and he was hiding from the ultimate warrior for costing him the title, or was something else going on that caused him to not be in it???
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
It was storyline that he was scared of the Warrior.
This may be a silly question but watching Foley DVD's and started thinking about his Title reigns. Has Foley ever had a truely sucessful title defence during his 3 wwf title reign's.
I was quite young in 1999 but from my memory Mankind wins the gold on Raw in very early 99 from the rock, loses it at the Rumble, wins it back in the empty area match on halftime heat, then he retains after drawing with the Rock in a last man standing match at St. Valentines Day Massacre. The loses it to the rock in ladder match on raw to set up Austin-Rock at Mania. Foley then wins his 3rd title in triple threat match at Summerslam on to lose it to the Game the next night on Raw.
So the last man standing match was a retention but my question is have we ever heard the words, on WWF television; 'the winner of this match and still WWF Champion Mankind?'
I was quite young in 1999 but from my memory Mankind wins the gold on Raw in very early 99 from the rock, loses it at the Rumble, wins it back in the empty area match on halftime heat, then he retains after drawing with the Rock in a last man standing match at St. Valentines Day Massacre. The loses it to the rock in ladder match on raw to set up Austin-Rock at Mania. Foley then wins his 3rd title in triple threat match at Summerslam on to lose it to the Game the next night on Raw.
So the last man standing match was a retention but my question is have we ever heard the words, on WWF television; 'the winner of this match and still WWF Champion Mankind?'
MrHashasheen
Enjoying Wrestling
All right, so Bret Hart was injured by Goldberg by way of a mule-kick in Starrcade, resulting in concussions. We all know that Bret soon after retired and wasn't into wrestling that much till 2010. My question is, was it a career-ender for him and impossible to effectively wrestle again or was it simply him having enough of the business and deciding to call it quits.
P. Nut Butters
Who Lies in the Darkness
It's my understanding that the mule kick gave him some sort of post-concussive stress syndrome which meant he could no longer take bumps due to risk of serious medical harm. So yes, it basically did end his career.
Shortly after that, he had a stroke which meant that the possibility of going out in front of a large live crowd was slim to none.
I was fortunate enough to be the only one to meet Bret at a WWA show here in New Zealand just months after his stroke, and he told me that it would be his first appearance in front of a live crowd in a while. He said he has to be careful to keep it short and sweet and try and keep anxiety levels down, because apparently (at the time) it could've triggered something in connection with his stroke.
So I was pretty shocked to even see him back, live on RAW.
Shortly after that, he had a stroke which meant that the possibility of going out in front of a large live crowd was slim to none.
I was fortunate enough to be the only one to meet Bret at a WWA show here in New Zealand just months after his stroke, and he told me that it would be his first appearance in front of a live crowd in a while. He said he has to be careful to keep it short and sweet and try and keep anxiety levels down, because apparently (at the time) it could've triggered something in connection with his stroke.
So I was pretty shocked to even see him back, live on RAW.
HatchetMan84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Bret's injury from the concussion has subsided, but the lingering problem is the effects of the stroke suffered in 2002. The stroke is why he allegedly can't "wrestle" anymore.
Bret walks with a small but noticible limp, has balance problems, and is also weak on the left side of his body. (The side that was paralyzed). The kick from Goldberg left a hole in the back of his neck muscle the size of a sliver dollar, and that, coupled with the stroke, is why he cannot take blows to the head, or a traditional flat back bump, or he risks having another conussion or stroke.
There are conflicting reports about Bret today, though. Some say they've seen him training wrestlers in Calgary, and that he moves fine in the ring and can do all the moves, but that he is extra careful with his neck and head. Others say Bret can barely get around, and walks with a cane backstage. Seeing him be much more in shape now, than when he returned last December, i'd believe the first story more.
Also, Eric Bischoff said that Lloyds of London, Bret's insurance company, affected the quality of the match at WM, and made it to where Bret couldn't take any moves....
Bret walks with a small but noticible limp, has balance problems, and is also weak on the left side of his body. (The side that was paralyzed). The kick from Goldberg left a hole in the back of his neck muscle the size of a sliver dollar, and that, coupled with the stroke, is why he cannot take blows to the head, or a traditional flat back bump, or he risks having another conussion or stroke.
There are conflicting reports about Bret today, though. Some say they've seen him training wrestlers in Calgary, and that he moves fine in the ring and can do all the moves, but that he is extra careful with his neck and head. Others say Bret can barely get around, and walks with a cane backstage. Seeing him be much more in shape now, than when he returned last December, i'd believe the first story more.
Also, Eric Bischoff said that Lloyds of London, Bret's insurance company, affected the quality of the match at WM, and made it to where Bret couldn't take any moves....
HatchetMan84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Also, Bret at the time didnt know how serious it was, and he continued to wrestle for the rest of that tour they were on. He said in an interview one time that he thinks he had as many as 3 seperate concussions immediately following the Goldberg match.
Even before the stroke though, Bret was messed up. He mulled for a long time about whether to retire or not, but he couldnt get over the migraines and headaches. He would try to work out, and have nausea and dizziness. The severe concussion affected his hormones in his brain. He said he couldnt even cry at his own brother's funeral, but that a father and son shaving cream commercial made him burst into tears.
This article explains in depth the concussion suffered from Goldberg and the immediate aftermath, leading up to Bret's decision to retire
http://www.80sxchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44978
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