[Official] John Cena Thread

[Kcorthe]

I actually know a few people, not a lot, but like four or five guys, who simply boo Cena because he gets cheered by women and children. To them I say, " Shut the fuck up." Seriously, if that's how you decide who to root for in wrestling, then you are not a real fan, and don't even deserve to speak on the subject. And you can damn well guarantee that there are alot more people just like that.

That's true. But you also have to include that many women cheer John Cena simply because they find him to be an attractive man.

But: At first I hated John Cena, but right around the ECW thing, during his feud w/ ECW and Rob Van Dam...I came to really respect him. Granted, he's not the greatest wrestler in the world, but so what? Neither was Hogan. John Cena is (was) on the road more than any other superstar, I believe, and he always gave his best, whether he was cheered or booed. Plus I hear that he is a great guy behind the scenes, and respects the business and everyone in it.

So for me, I do feel that his character/title reign this past year was very stale...but as an athlete and a man, I respect John Cena.

 

[King-Aldo]

I love ECW fans, but what they did to John Cena at One Night Stand 2006 was disgusting. Some may say they were just doing it because he was against RVD, but we'll never know.

People always have the same old excuses to boo John Cena and it's pathetic. I'm 19 years old and I've loved WWE from the age of 9. I've seen all the attitude era, etc, and I still think John Cena is a great wrestler. He has a good character. Yeah the reason people always boo John Cena is because he is either in the title picture or he is the champion. So what? He makes WWE money, and that is really all they care about. You cant boo John Cena purely because he's been the champion for too long.

I agree with kcorthe. Apart from hating Cena. I've never hated Cena but I respect the fact he goes out there and entertains us and does what he does for the WWE fans, whether they love him or hate him.

No matter how many people boo him, he will come down that aisle and do what he does best.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's true. But you also have to include that many women cheer John Cena simply because they find him to be an attractive man.

If his attractiveness draws in fans to the product, then it makes sense to continue putting him in the main event.

But: At first I hated John Cena, but right around the ECW thing, during his feud w/ ECW and Rob Van Dam...I came to really respect him. Granted, he's not the greatest wrestler in the world, but so what? Neither was Hogan. John Cena is (was) on the road more than any other superstar, I believe, and he always gave his best, whether he was cheered or booed. Plus I hear that he is a great guy behind the scenes, and respects the business and everyone in it.

John Cena is very close to being the best wrestler in the world. His body of work over the last three years is second to none, in terms of high quality matches, with a variety of opponents, styles and match types. If you order a PPV with Cena in the main-event, you're guaranteed to get your money's worth. And it's been like that since he won the belt from JBL.

And it was the same with Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan and John Cena both are tremendously underrated as wrestlers.

I love ECW fans, but what they did to John Cena at One Night Stand 2006 was disgusting. Some may say they were just doing it because he was against RVD, but we'll never know.

I say part of it was how well John Cena worked that crowd. I mean, they came in not liking Cena, but instead of doing what the crowd did to Big Show and Batista, to the point where they didn't even care about the match, Cena drew them into the match, and made the crowd care about everything he did.

That match against RVD may be one of Cena's greatest masterpieces.

People always have the same old excuses to boo John Cena and it's pathetic. I'm 19 years old and I've loved WWE from the age of 9. I've seen all the attitude era, etc, and I still think John Cena is a great wrestler. He has a good character. Yeah the reason people always boo John Cena is because he is either in the title picture or he is the champion. So what? He makes WWE money, and that is really all they care about. You cant boo John Cena purely because he's been the champion for too long.

Well, people can, it just means their arguments against him are completely weak.

 

[Lil Wes]

I love ECW fans, but what they did to John Cena at One Night Stand 2006 was disgusting.

How is expressing opinion and booing someone they don't like disgusting? They paid to see the show. Let em' do what they want.

Plus, you must not know ECW fans. Basically a bunch of bitter smarky bums.

Some may say they were just doing it because he was against RVD, but we'll never know.

That probably had alot to do with it. That and they don't like Cena and RVD is probably the most respected ECW wrestler by that crowd.

People always have the same old excuses to boo John Cena and it's pathetic.

lolz.

And Cena marks say that same shit about how is he oooooooo soooooo great.

I'm 19 years old and I've loved WWE from the age of 9. I've seen all the attitude era, etc, and I still think John Cena is a great wrestler.

Lolz. If Cena would have been around during the Attitude Era he would be jobbing to Billy Gunn and Marc Mero weekly.

He's not "great", people use that word just out of the blue anymore. He's average and I guess you can say good at times. But he's not great. Great is like Steve Austin, The Rock, Hogan, Flair etc..

Cena isn't great. He's nothing more than average.

He has a good character.

His character was poorly booked and stale. There was nothing good about his character when he got injured.

Yeah the reason people always boo John Cena is because he is either in the title picture or he is the champion.

Meh, it's not a problem being in the title picture IMO, just being fed down out throats with long title reigns.

So what? He makes WWE money,

*Yawn*

Is this all Cena marks can come up with? He makes money, so what? That doesnt change opinions that he's shit in the ring or as entertaining as a turnbuckle.

I still don't understand the whole "making money" thing when other guys like Orton, HBK, Triple H (even while injured) and others were selling merchandise as well.

You look on that top 10 sellers list, their shit is always on there. So that argument is Meh.

You cant boo John Cena purely because he's been the champion for too long.

Err, Yeah I can. It's old, boring, stale etc..

Apart from hating Cena. I've never hated Cena but I respect the fact he goes out there and entertains us and does what he does for the WWE fans, whether they love him or hate him.

All fans should respect all of them from fucking Funaki to Undertaker for putting on a show but some just happen to be better than others.

No matter how many people boo him, he will come down that aisle and do what he does best.

Put us to sleep with another, "The Champ is Here" promo?

 

[Koko B Ware's Parrot-Kes!]

One simply has to look at it from this point of view?

'Would there be such a debate about Cena if he was actually any good, whether this is on the mic or his wrestling ability?'

The simple answer is: NO.

Do people question the abilities of Undertaker, HBK, Edge, HHH, Orton?

NO.

The reason people hate Cena is because he has limited ability AND is shoved down our throats. At least when HHH is shoved down our throats no one questions his ability.

 

[figure4]

^^Besides just moving merchandise, I think by making WWE money you have to look at the success of Cena's CD and "The Marine", plus the simple fact that Cena is a widely popular cultural figure, appearing on commercials and Tv shows alike. Right now Cena is where Hogan, The Rock and Austin were in their prime in terms of the popularity inside and out of the ring.

I've always said that I think Vince McMahon knows the wrestling business better than any of us here on the good ol' Internet. He knows how to make lemonade out of lemons. He knows how to make shit (in terms of actual in-ring wrestling ability) shine, as he always has. At the end of the day, it takes more than great technical skills to expand WWE as a whole, which at the end of the day is the ultimate goal, folks. Stone Cold and The Rock didn't help expand WWE because of their great in-ring ability. Hulk Hogan didn't help expand WWE because of his great in-ring ability. Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had great in-ring ability in their primes of the mid-90s. But WCW was kicking their ass because of the stars they had over there. What people need to realize..and live with, for God's sake, is that CENA IS THE FRANCHISE. Number-wise, WrestleMania 23 was one of the biggest WrestleManias of all time. I guarantee that this year's Mania (which Cena will be absent) will not be as hugely successful as last year's, even if the card is particularly better. I don't even understand how Cena haters even have a legitimate case anymore, it's been over three years and the man is still at the top of WWE, baring his injury, he would still be either with the title or competing for it. Until WWE finds that next big star they can push (my vote is for MVP), Cena is here to stay.

 

[Koko B Ware's Parrot-Kes!]

The saddest thing about Cena is that it is an indictment of the American culture at this point in time. The utterly talentless are glorified whilst those who are good at their professions are ignored.

Closely following this, some day we'll have to witness his induction into a WRESTLING hall of fame.

 

[Slyfox696]

lolz.

And Cena marks say that same shit about how is he oooooooo soooooo great.

Except that facts and figures back up what we are saying, where as the only thing people can complain against Cena either has nothing do with being a good wrestler, is outside is control, or shows a lack of knowledge of the critic's part.

Lolz. If Cena would have been around during the Attitude Era he would be jobbing to Billy Gunn and Marc Mero weekly.

He's not "great", people use that word just out of the blue anymore. He's average and I guess you can say good at times. But he's not great. Great is like Steve Austin, The Rock, Hogan, Flair etc..

Cena isn't great. He's nothing more than average.

Cena is the best professional wrestler in the WWE today, and maybe the world today.

*Yawn*

Is this all Cena marks can come up with? He makes money, so what? That doesnt change opinions that he's shit in the ring or as entertaining as a turnbuckle.

This makes absolutely no sense. How can someone make money if he's not entertaining? Face it, the only reason he makes money is because he's entertaining. Charlie Haas is not entertaining, which is why no one pays to watch him wrestle.

I still don't understand the whole "making money" thing when other guys like Orton, HBK, Triple H (even while injured) and others were selling merchandise as well.

Because their stuff doesn't sell as well as Cena's. It's really that simple.

You look on that top 10 sellers list, their shit is always on there. So that argument is Meh.

Except that Cena merchandise is consistenly the most bought. If I remember correctly, back in 2004, Cena merchandise accounted for some huge percentage of merchandise sold. It's on one of the WWE webpages, I just don't have my sources at work. Since then, he's been the top guy and the champion, so one can only assume his merchandise percentage has gone up.

To deny the fact that Cena is the top moneymaker is ludicrous. One cannot do that with a straight face.

All fans should respect all of them from fucking Funaki to Undertaker for putting on a show but some just happen to be better than others.

Exactly. And Cena happens to be better than the rest.

One simply has to look at it from this point of view?

'Would there be such a debate about Cena if he was actually any good, whether this is on the mic or his wrestling ability?'

The simple answer is: NO.

Do people question the abilities of Undertaker, HBK, Edge, HHH, Orton?

NO.

Haha...you're kidding right? People debate the ability of Bret Hart. People used to bash Shawn Michaels and his ability back in his prime. The Undertaker is notorious from critics for his poor selling. Orton is bashed relentlessly for his "headlock/restholds". Edge has yet to put on a classic singles bout that didn't involve gimmicks.

The reason people hate Cena is because he has limited ability AND is shoved down our throats. At least when HHH is shoved down our throats no one questions his ability.

I still question HHH's ability. HHH is tremendously overrated in the ring.

The reason people hate Cena is because the man is successful. And the IWC can't stand those who are successful.

 

[joejoe]

The reason people hate Cena is because the man is successful. And the IWC can't stand those who are successful.

Could NOT have said it better. The IWC looooves to hate those who are successful.

They also love to jump on the bandwagon of those who aren't getting over in the main stream... Mr. Kennedy is a prime example of that.

I don't think Cena is an amazing wrestler but at least when he was champion it actually felt like he was the world champ.

With Orton holding the strap now I don't feel like he is a world champ.

Cena isn't a great wrestler but the WWE is hurting big time now with out him.

Side note..it would be a HORRIBLE idea to turn Cena heel. I think they should keep him as a chaser for a while when he does come back. I'd think he would get a lot less boos is he wasn't always the champion and would gain some fans by in his pursiut of the title.

 

[King-Aldo]

Could NOT have said it better. The IWC looooves to hate those who are successful.

That couldn't be more true.

You look on that top 10 sellers list, their shit is always on there. So that argument is Meh.

That's just WWE.com. What about when you actually go and see a show, that doesn't count for WWE.com sales. Cena is one of, if not, THE biggest moneymaker in WWE today. You analyse the crowd on RAW, even SmackDown!, you see someone with a Cena shirt, a Cena cap/hat, anything, the next best sellers are probably DX and Rey Mysterio. WWE is keep John Cena as one of their top guys because he makes the most money, no matter what you say.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

alright, my updated, ever evolving opinion on the phenomenon that is John Cena....

1. Just becuase something makes the most money, does NOT make it the best thing. Maybe the best thing going, but not the highest quality. Thats to say becuase the Backstreet Boys sell more records then Johnny Cash, DMX, Jay Z, or Metallica, that they are better muscisions. Which is untrue. It just means that they appeal to a larger, broader demographic, that are willing to buy cds. Same thing with Cena. His character, and look, sell to a much broader demographic than anyone else, so therefore he is the best money maker, and that is something that has been proven to be undisputeable. It doesnt make him BETTER though, than Shawn Micheals, than Edge, than Triple H, than Kurt Angle. He just appeals to largest, broadest demographic, that are more likely to spend money on pro wrestling.

2.Quit saying that he "only does 5 moves". That is weak, and moronic. Every wrestler has siganature moves/spots. EVERY wrestler. Name me someone who DOESNT have 4 to 6 signature moves, or spots??? The amount of moves you do in a match dont make the match better. If it did ROH would be the dominant company in pro wrestling. Every wrestler has 5 main moves or spots they do in just about every match, so that argument to me is ignorant, and just something people want to say, becuase there isnt much else bad to say, and everyone says it, so it must be right. Its not correct at all, if you really think about it before you say it. Wrestling matches arent about large volumes of moves, shooting star presses through 2 tables, and doing 28376 crazy spots and having a guy kick out at two after a bunch of crazy ass shit. Thats not a preformance, or storytelling, it move practice sessions in fron of people. So stop saying he has "5 moves" and a "repetitive moveset"...EVERYONE DOES....

3.How anyone can say they hate CENA for they way he is BOOKED, and PUSHED is beyond me...you honestly think he doesnt know or isnt capable of preforming more moves than that?? He is BOOKED to look the way he does...you think he goes up to every guy before they preform and says "he in this match I want you to beat my ass for 15 minutes, then im gonna no sell it, and use my 5 moves and overcome the odds"...I would suppose NOT. He is booked to appeal to that broad audience I spoke of earlier, and they enjoy the sequence I just talked about. And another thing...you dont think Vince doesnt hear the boos??? You think prolly half the reason they book Cena the way they do is becuase they KNOW you all hate him, and the way he is booked so much???...which leads to my next point....

4. Yes, John Cena IS the top draw in the company, even being booed as a face. The reason being is that he earns all of the crowd heat that the best face, AND the best heel would gain, and THATS why they keep booking him the way they do!!! Its to further incite the love of his audience, and to further incite the hatred of the audience who hates him, and THAT is what makes him one of the best. Wrestling is about drawing a crowd in, making them forget what they are watching is fake, and getting them emotionally attached. NO wrestler today does that better than John Cena. BECUASE every last person in that crowd passionately cares about the result of the match, one side passionately cheering for him, the other side seething with hatred for him. WWE knows the way he is booked and the way he looks is the reason the people LOVE him, and is the reason why the other people HATE him, and thats the reason it stays the same, and he IS THE top draw. Half the crowd may love him, and cheer at the top of their lungs for him, the other half may hate him, and every movement he makes. But by my count, thats 100% of the crowd emotionally involved in his match, which is the entire point of pro wrestling. period.

 

[Slyfox696]

alright, my updated, ever evolving opinion on the phenomenon that is John Cena....

2.Quit saying that he "only does 5 moves". That is weak, and moronic. Every wrestler has siganature moves/spots. EVERY wrestler. Name me someone who DOESNT have 4 to 6 signature moves, or spots??? The amount of moves you do in a match dont make the match better. If it did ROH would be the dominant company in pro wrestling. Every wrestler has 5 main moves or spots they do in just about every match, so that argument to me is ignorant, and just something people want to say, becuase there isnt much else bad to say, and everyone says it, so it must be right. Its not correct at all, if you really think about it before you say it. Wrestling matches arent about large volumes of moves, shooting star presses through 2 tables, and doing 28376 crazy spots and having a guy kick out at two after a bunch of crazy ass shit. Thats not a preformance, or storytelling, it move practice sessions in fron of people. So stop saying he has "5 moves" and a "repetitive moveset"...EVERYONE DOES....

3.How anyone can say they hate CENA for they way he is BOOKED, and PUSHED is beyond me...you honestly think he doesnt know or isnt capable of preforming more moves than that?? He is BOOKED to look the way he does...you think he goes up to every guy before they preform and says "he in this match I want you to beat my ass for 15 minutes, then im gonna no sell it, and use my 5 moves and overcome the odds"...I would suppose NOT. He is booked to appeal to that broad audience I spoke of earlier, and they enjoy the sequence I just talked about. And another thing...you dont think Vince doesnt hear the boos??? You think prolly half the reason they book Cena the way they do is becuase they KNOW you all hate him, and the way he is booked so much???...which leads to my next point....

4. Yes, John Cena IS the top draw in the company, even being booed as a face. The reason being is that he earns all of the crowd heat that the best face, AND the best heel would gain, and THATS why they keep booking him the way they do!!! Its to further incite the love of his audience, and to further incite the hatred of the audience who hates him, and THAT is what makes him one of the best. Wrestling is about drawing a crowd in, making them forget what they are watching is fake, and getting them emotionally attached. NO wrestler today does that better than John Cena. BECUASE every last person in that crowd passionately cares about the result of the match, one side passionately cheering for him, the other side seething with hatred for him. WWE knows the way he is booked and the way he looks is the reason the people LOVE him, and is the reason why the other people HATE him, and thats the reason it stays the same, and he IS THE top draw. Half the crowd may love him, and cheer at the top of their lungs for him, the other half may hate him, and every movement he makes. But by my count, thats 100% of the crowd emotionally involved in his match, which is the entire point of pro wrestling. period.

Great points.

1. Just becuase something makes the most money, does NOT make it the best thing. Maybe the best thing going, but not the highest quality. Thats to say becuase the Backstreet Boys sell more records then Johnny Cash, DMX, Jay Z, or Metallica, that they are better muscisions. Which is untrue. It just means that they appeal to a larger, broader demographic, that are willing to buy cds. Same thing with Cena. His character, and look, sell to a much broader demographic than anyone else, so therefore he is the best money maker, and that is something that has been proven to be undisputeable. It doesnt make him BETTER though, than Shawn Micheals, than Edge, than Triple H, than Kurt Angle. He just appeals to largest, broadest demographic, that are more likely to spend money on pro wrestling.

This is a good theory, but there is a fundamental flaw in your theory. Musicians own their own creative direction. Some choose to intentionally make music away from the mainstream (Pearl Jam) while some release music soley for mainstream appeal (Britney Spears). That is where the difference lies.

Everyone who works in professional wrestling, works for a promotion. The promotions main goal is making money. That is the chief goal of every wrestling company. Thus, the best wrestlers are the ones who achieve the main objective the best. Let's use this as an example. Let's say you and I are both traveling salesmen selling vacuum cleaners for the same company. You have a 30 minute speech completely memorized, detailing each and every feature, all the customizations, the whole 9 yards...you got it covered. I give a 5 minute presentation, telling the price, warranty and say it's really awesome. Now, let's say I make twice as many sales as you do...who is the better salesmen? I am, of course. Why? Because I achieved the objective with the greatest success.

Now, pretend William Regal and John Cena are the salesmen. William Regal does all the fancy stuff, mixes things up, has a variety of style and works different ways. Cena sticks with a more simple formula. Regal can't draw flies to crap and Cena is the biggest draw in wrestling. So, who's better? Cena. Why? Because he is achieving his company's goal the best.

So, how do we know that making money is the best determinant of ability? Well, think rationally for a second. Would you pay for something that is not entertaining? No, neither would I. Would you be more willing to pay more for something that is more entertaining? Of course. So it goes with the general population. People are more willing to spend more money on the things they find more entertaining. Thus, the fact that Cena is the biggest draw and moneymaker means that he is the most entertaining.

Like I said, your theory sounds good at first, but it is really comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Great points.

This is a good theory, but there is a fundamental flaw in your theory. Musicians own their own creative direction. Some choose to intentionally make music away from the mainstream (Pearl Jam) while some release music soley for mainstream appeal (Britney Spears). That is where the difference lies.


So, how do we know that making money is the best determinant of ability? Well, think rationally for a second. Would you pay for something that is not entertaining? No, neither would I. Would you be more willing to pay more for something that is more entertaining? Of course. So it goes with the general population. People are more willing to spend more money on the things they find more entertaining. Thus, the fact that Cena is the biggest draw and moneymaker means that he is the most entertaining.

Like I said, your theory sounds good at first, but it is really comparing apples and oranges.

See, but what you just said, somewhat proves point number one. Yes pearl Jam may intentionally be against main stream, and not for everyone, but they wouldnt be a music companies main forward groupd...IE, say for example, CM Punk would be pearl Jam, to John Cena being Britney Spears. Yes, pearl Jam will have a record deal, but The company will put more empahsis on britney, knowing she appeals to a broader audience willing to give them money. Same thing with Cena. Cena appeals to a much broader audience who (or whos mothers) are much more willing to spend money on this kind of thing. And im the LAST person to say just becuase something isnt mainstream, thats of higher quality, but if you want to make money, you will go with whatever will appeal to the broadest money spending demographic. Its not a knock on Cena in any way, im just trying to prestent that jus becuase he makes the most money, doesnt make him the best there is, it just means his chracter, and the matches (stories) he is involved in, appeals to a broader, deeper (becuase of the hatred) audience. The same children who cheer him, would probably be less apt to cheer for someone whos look and character wasnt Cena's. Its a broader, deeper audience he appeals to. And he plays that character that appeals to that broad deep audience damn well.

 

[Meilichia]

Could NOT have said it better. The IWC looooves to hate those who are successful.

Thats a bit of a broad statement really. If you are saying Cena was successful, perhaps he was in creating money for a company, and he is incredibly successful with children and young wrestling fans, but obviously he isn't so successful if everyone doesn't like him.

I don't think Cena is an amazing wrestler but at least when he was champion it actually felt like he was the world champ.
With Orton holding the strap now I don't feel like he is a world champ.

Just because Orton isn't the best champion, doesn't mean Cena was the best. He isn't a good wrestler, his character is aimed at children in my opinion, hense his popularity. The only reason it felt like he was the champion is because he had had it so long, everyone just wanted to watch to see him lose.

Cena isn't a great wrestler but the WWE is hurting big time now with out him.

I don't agree at all with that. As a Hardy fan it has opened a door for Hardy, the rating really haven't dropped at all, and yeah they will go up when Cena returns, but they always do when someone from the main card returns after an injury. In my opinion Raw has improved without him, there are storylines that last longer than a month, Raw was incredibly boring as they did one month storylines with 'who will Cena beat at the next PPV'. If anyone wants to talk about burying talent talk about Cena.

Side note..it would be a HORRIBLE idea to turn Cena heel. I think they should keep him as a chaser for a while when he does come back. I'd think he would get a lot less boos is he wasn't always the champion and would gain some fans by in his pursiut of the title.

He won't be able to return as a heel, it just won't work. I wouldn't mind him as a heel eventually, but straight after a return it just wouldn't work.

As far as Cena goes, I am far far from a fan of his, his wrestling ability isn't great, his ability on the mic isn't a problem, what he talks about is. The main problem I have with Cena, besides his boring title runs that last so long, is the fact the WWE have tried to make him so face, his character becomes sickening. 'Loyality' 'Respect'... bleh... next he will be telling kids to eat their veg and kissing babies at ring side.

 

[Slyfox696]

Thats a bit of a broad statement really. If you are saying Cena was successful, perhaps he was in creating money for a company, and he is incredibly successful with children and young wrestling fans, but obviously he isn't so successful if everyone doesn't like him.

What other kind of success is possible in professional wrestling?

Just because Orton isn't the best champion, doesn't mean Cena was the best. He isn't a good wrestler,

Yes, he is. Feel free to explain why you do not feel so, and I'll tell you why you are wrong.

his character is aimed at children in my opinion, hense his popularity.

I'm a 23 year old male college graduate. Explain why I like him so much.

The only reason it felt like he was the champion is because he had had it so long, everyone just wanted to watch to see him lose.

Or, because the man was a big attraction and people wanted to watch him wrestle. Which makes more sense, your scenario, or mine? Yeah, I'm going with mine.

I don't agree at all with that. As a Hardy fan it has opened a door for Hardy,

I'll agree completely with that, and Hardy hasn't disappointed.

In my opinion Raw has improved without him, there are storylines that last longer than a month, Raw was incredibly boring as they did one month storylines with 'who will Cena beat at the next PPV'.

The biggest reason for that was because there was a PPV every 2 weeks during the summer. Now that PPVs are more spread out, storylines can evolve more. Don't blame Cena for that.

If anyone wants to talk about burying talent talk about Cena.

How does Cena bury talent? Name one guy who hasn't come out of a feud with Cena looking BETTER than he went in? RVD? Came out champion. Edge? Went into feud as upper mid-carder, and is now a full-time main-eventer thanks to his feud with Cena. Umaga? His feud and match with Cena at Royal Rumble has the entire IWC finally appreciating his ability. HBK? Put on a match of the year candidate with Cena. Khali? Cena was the first guy to put Khali in a decent match. Orton? He's now the WWE Champion, and a legitimate badass heel with good heat.

Burying talent indicates that someone comes out of feud with serious damage to their drawing potential. There's not a single wrestler you can make that case for.

The main problem I have with Cena, besides his boring title runs that last so long, is the fact the WWE have tried to make him so face, his character becomes sickening. 'Loyality' 'Respect'... bleh... next he will be telling kids to eat their veg and kissing babies at ring side.

Yes, what a terrible world we live in when a good guy is preaching to people about being a good person. How dare a face trying and encourage others to do the right thing, and be a stand-up person? How DARE the WWE try to force a POSITIVE role model down wrestling fans throats.

The biggest problem I have with Cena haters, other than the fact their hatred is usually misguided, is the fact that they criticize Cena for being a good person, as if in todays fucked up world, we don't need an actual positive role model. I don't understand how people can not like someone for being a positive role model, and it saddens me to think that people would rather follow lawbreakers and evil people than those who preach about following the right path.

 

[Meilichia]

What other kind of success is possible in professional wrestling?

To be recognized for being a talented wrestler? WWE is a money based company, if you are loved or hated, you will have your fans, and sell merchandise, which in my opinion is the only logical reason why Cena was so successful in WWE.

Yes, he is. Feel free to explain why you do not feel so, and I'll tell you why you are wrong.

Not a great wrestler? Because like a majority of WWE wrestlers they have a limited move set, there are exceptions like Shelton Benjamin, MVP etc. However as a wrestler myself, I find it hard to watch someone who drops a fist to the face as credible move. I feel he has athetic ability, I won't take that away from him, because that would be stupid. I just feel ever since 'trying' to be the incredible baby face he is, his move set has become incredibly limited to please the fans, much like a lot of faces in WWE.

I'm a 23 year old male college graduate. Explain why I like him so much.

I don't know, maybe he appeals to you, I can't answer why you like him.

Or, because the man was a big attraction and people wanted to watch him wrestle. Which makes more sense, your scenario, or mine? Yeah, I'm going with mine.

I know i only want to watch him in the hope he will lose, against anyone.

The biggest reason for that was because there was a PPV every 2 weeks during the summer. Now that PPVs are more spread out, storylines can evolve more. Don't blame Cena for that.

It wasn't Cena's fault, he doesn't write the storylines, but at the same time, would it have been so hard for him to lose once in a while? He title rain got very stale, as he just won ever PPV match.

How does Cena bury talent? Name one guy who hasn't come out of a feud with Cena looking BETTER than he went in? RVD? Came out champion. Edge? Went into feud as upper mid-carder, and is now a full-time main-eventer thanks to his feud with Cena. Umaga? His feud and match with Cena at Royal Rumble has the entire IWC finally appreciating his ability. HBK? Put on a match of the year candidate with Cena. Khali? Cena was the first guy to put Khali in a decent match. Orton? He's now the WWE Champion, and a legitimate badass heel with good heat.

Look better after a fued with Cena? Thats like saying people look better for losing to Ric Flair in his current storyline. Edge... he eventually beat Edge... when most logical wrestling fans will agree Edge has more in ring ability than Cena, it made Edge look weak, hense his move. HBK was the ring general in that match, it was a bloody good match, and both deserve credit, but i'd give more credit to HBK for that match. Talking of HBK and also HHH... tapping to Cena at the WM ME... that was not credible, and the same match two years in a row? Yeah it could have been seen as passing the torch, but really? At least let the legend of HBK lose in a slightly more dignified manner, and the match with Khali, I am certainly not a Khali fan, but Khali was completely used in that match, he was just being used so Cena could appear to be the 'smaller guy who could overcome the giant'. Orton... 'legitmate badass heel'? I don't think I watch the same wrestling as you. Orton would have got way way more heat if Cena would have dropped the belt to him, not just let it go when injured.

Yes, what a terrible world we live in when a good guy is preaching to people about being a good person. How dare a face trying and encourage others to do the right thing, and be a stand-up person? How DARE the WWE try to force a POSITIVE role model down wrestling fans throats.

The biggest problem I have with Cena haters, other than the fact their hatred is usually misguided, is the fact that they criticize Cena for being a good person, as if in todays fucked up world, we don't need an actual positive role model. I don't understand how people can not like someone for being a positive role model, and it saddens me to think that people would rather follow lawbreakers and evil people than those who preach about following the right path.

No, I don't think you can make that assumption that easy. Role models are people who should inspire use, so really for a start that doesn't link to wrestling at all, because a entertainer in a fake violence business shouldn't be the ones to inspire us, and do we really need some one week after week pushing his morals down out throats? Most people know right from wrong, and don't really need to watch wrestling of all things to know what we should and shouldn't do.
Its entertainment after all.

 

[a7xoff]

I must say one thing. Unless WWE was lying to us. Cena is probably not 100% due to that I give him props for getting in there. Also way to go Cena and WWE for actually keeping a secret with when Cena was coming back. After the movie was finished??? Sure... Anyways now that he is back I'm expecting him to win at Wrestlemania, but I don't know against who. Either HHH or Orton I'd assume. Now enter all the Cena haters who will go on and on like the first 170 pages of this thread. I'm certainly not a Cena fan, but I am glad that he's back. Mabey we can get some life back into Raw now...

 

[crzyjester11]

Yeah i haven't been on in a while in thats because CENA has been gone!!! Why in the hell would they bring him back early??? This is so disgusting his upper shoulder was beat red if his arm falls off they have nobody to blame but themselves. Well i guess its back to shit ass final matches with CENA winning all the time. It was great while it lasted i guess.

 

[Sicko]

WOW! I was shocked when he came out and happy at the same time, I don't hate the guy like some fans it is not that serious, maybe WWE went over the top the way the pushed him by letting him hold the title what seemed like for 2-3 years but as far as entertaining not many is better then Cena right now so the WWE needs him

but credit to WWE with using the shock value on this one because I know I thought the man was still months away WOW!

 

[vimeskane]

that was the biggest mistake in wwe history having cena win the rumble, 4 1 thing.

If the rumor is true he is making another wwe film tight this april or may, that would mean he would be on another break for 1-2 months this spring.

So that means he can't win the title @ wm, but I will guess that cena choses orton and at wm 24 orton beats cena so he can leave on an injury angle to make the movie, and that leaves us at ss where cena will make the second comeback of the year and beat orton 4 the title.


Why couldn't wwe make it easier 4 all of us and gone with the original plan to have cena comeback after he had made the movie?

 

[JamesT]

I dont hate Cena but i didnt want that to happen. Triple should of won imo. What we gonna get? another Cena vs Orton fued? Give me a break.

Cena got majorly booed also which was not expected

Oh well, back to normal with Cena routine. At least turn him heel, make his character a bit more interesting.

 

[Slyfox696]

To be recognized for being a talented wrestler?

Who doesn't recognize him as a talented wrestler? Wrestling fans in general recognize him as talented because they care enough about him to pay to see him. The WWE recognizes him enough because they made him the longest reigning champion since Hulk Hogan in the 80s. His colleagues recognize him as being talented, as evidenced by the fact that he's been endorsed by Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, and Chris Jericho. So who does recognize him as a talented wrestler? A small percentage of fans in the 16-25 year old age range who spend their time bitching on internet forums about a product many of them never pay to see?

John Cena is incredibly talented. Wrestling fans, Vince McMahon, and other wrestlers all agree.

WWE is a money based company, if you are loved or hated, you will have your fans, and sell merchandise, which in my opinion is the only logical reason why Cena was so successful in WWE.

Being loved or hated is what makes a person talented. Professional wrestling has always been, and always will be about making people care about you. So, if you are loved or hated, you are doing your job very well.

Not a great wrestler? Because like a majority of WWE wrestlers they have a limited move set, there are exceptions like Shelton Benjamin, MVP etc. However as a wrestler myself, I find it hard to watch someone who drops a fist to the face as credible move. I feel he has athetic ability, I won't take that away from him, because that would be stupid. I just feel ever since 'trying' to be the incredible baby face he is, his move set has become incredibly limited to please the fans, much like a lot of faces in WWE.

So having a bunch of moves makes someone a good wrestler? What a bunch of baloney. Number of moves have nothing to do with being a good wrestler. Being able to tell a story in the ring, showing psychology, working the crowd, selling...THESE are the things that make a good wrestler. Not an arbitrary list of moves done in a match.

I think the funniest part in your post demonstrates how little so many of today's fans understand psychology. You don't consider dropping a fist in someone's face to be a credible move? You're telling me that getting punch in the face by a man who can bench press an elephant wouldn't hurt? Do you not understand how much that would hurt, and why it is good psychology for a man like Cena?

Number of moves has nothing to do with being a good wrestler. It's what moves you do, how you do them, and when you do them that makes a difference.

I don't know, maybe he appeals to you, I can't answer why you like him.

Yes, but I'm not a child, so why do I like him?

It wasn't Cena's fault, he doesn't write the storylines, but at the same time, would it have been so hard for him to lose once in a while? He title rain got very stale, as he just won ever PPV match.

Why would the WWE want to take the top title off their best draw? That would be a stupid business decision. If fans really didn't like him that much, they should have quit paying for shows, attending shows and watching him on Monday. But, that didn't happen, so the WWE kept the title on him. It's smart business. It also gave unbelievable credibility to the WWE title, and would have made whomever he lost to much bigger. It was just unfortunate they didn't get to use that.

Look better after a fued with Cena? Thats like saying people look better for losing to Ric Flair in his current storyline. Edge... he eventually beat Edge... when most logical wrestling fans will agree Edge has more in ring ability than Cena, it made Edge look weak, hense his move.

How did it make Edge look weak when Edge went in as the guy who could never get over as a main-eventer, and came out as the top man on Smackdown? That's silly. Cena put Edge over HUGE in their feud.

And, Edge is not really that talented in the ring in classic singles bouts. He's phenomenal in gimmick matches, but classic one on one matches he's average.

HBK was the ring general in that match,

Yeah, except Cena was the one who was in control for most of the match and spent over half the match moving HBK from spot to spot.

it was a bloody good match, and both deserve credit, but i'd give more credit to HBK for that match.

The only reason you want to give more credit for HBK is because you don't think Cena is good. Not because HBK actually deserves it. Both men played their parts to perfection, and neither one deserves more credit for the actual match being good.

Talking of HBK and also HHH... tapping to Cena at the WM ME... that was not credible, and the same match two years in a row?

Why was it not credible? Has not everyone else tapped out to it as well? Did it not set up their Raw match wonderfully (HBK I mean)?

Yeah it could have been seen as passing the torch, but really? At least let the legend of HBK lose in a slightly more dignified manner

Why is tapping out less dignified than getting your ass beat so bad you can't answer a 3 count?

and the match with Khali, I am certainly not a Khali fan, but Khali was completely used in that match, he was just being used so Cena could appear to be the 'smaller guy who could overcome the giant'.

It is still generally agreed to be some of Khali's best work.

Orton... 'legitmate badass heel'? I don't think I watch the same wrestling as you. Orton would have got way way more heat if Cena would have dropped the belt to him, not just let it go when injured.

I agree, but that's not Cena's fault. And, you're telling me the head kicking Cena's father didn't get Orton a ton of heat? You must not be watching the same program. I'm watching Raw every Monday night, what are you watching?

No, I don't think you can make that assumption that easy. Role models are people who should inspire use, so really for a start that doesn't link to wrestling at all, because a entertainer in a fake violence business shouldn't be the ones to inspire us, and do we really need some one week after week pushing his morals down out throats? Most people know right from wrong, and don't really need to watch wrestling of all things to know what we should and shouldn't do.
Its entertainment after all.

How many role models, other than family members, come from anything other than entertainment mediums? Whether it be sports stars, or musicians or actors...most role models come from the entertainment area. So, having Cena as a positive role model, especially in professional wrestling which has always had a high percentage of children as a core audience is a good thing. If people know right from wrong, what does it matter if Cena is saying to do things right? Is it any different than Edge coming out and trying to convince people he's ok for doing the wrong things?

That line against Cena is so ridiculous. Bashing him because he's a positive role model does not speak well for the wrestling fans who do it.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

Why are WWE so stupid?

I have no problem with entering Cena into the Royal Rumble, and even I was midly suprised to see him in there, so props for doing it so well.

But why oh why have Cena win the royal rumble?! Did they not realise that doing so they would have the 50% of the fans who are not exactly smitten with him, turn on him in an instant. Everyone now is sub-consciencly thinking 'oh great Cena is back and now is going to squash everyone and nothing will change from how it was before'.

WWE should have learned their lesson of over-pushing Cena, and having fans turn on him.

I don't have a problem with Cena been in the main event at mania even, and everyone knows I am not his biggest fan. However they should have had him be eliminated from the rumble, and whoever the other main event challenger be win it instead. If WWE had built up his character gradually instead of throwing him stright into the main event picture there wouldn't be the backlash from some fans, that is now gonna occur. Hardy=Good way to push a fan favourite, Cena winning Rumble on his return = Bad way.

On a side note I really think Cena vs Edge is the way to go, all the fans are aware of there history, and the two of them, despite my reservations over Cena's all around ability there is nodoubting he is probably there biggest draw at this moment in time. They have proven that the two of them can have great matches, and we all know that they can have good promos with each other. Cena/Orton although it wasn't horrid I feel just isnt main event wrestlemania standard, Edge/Cena would be a match that I actualy wouldnt mind seeing.

 

[patricia63]

welcome back cena what a surprise never saw that coming John cena is a great wrestler and as l have seen in his dvd my life worth watching cause you find out what sort of person john cena realy is and he don't care who hates him he turns that into a positive

 

[midgensa]

Eh ... there are plenty of Cena haters out there ... but do not count me as one of them. This is a GREAT swerve that really nobody could see coming ... and even if you hate Cena, that is what we all watch for. If you have been watching for 20+ years you have seen a ton ... stuff like this makes you turn your head and stare at the screen and remind you why you love this wrestling shit, because they can still surprise you like this.