[Official] John Cena Thread

[Lil Wes]

Yes, because this forum is clearly indicative of all wrestling fans everywhere.

Not everybody loves Cena like you. Sorry.

No, because there has yet to be an argument for why Cena sucks as a wrestler than I haven't beaten.

HAHA,I've seen several arguements where you have been torn to shreds. Don't have an attitude change like Cena supposedly has.

And yet, I've given several examples of why Cena IS a good wrestler, and have yet to be answered.

And I have given you several reasons why Cena IS despised and isn't a good wrestler. *yawn* this is getting ridiculous..

His character is given to him by booking. No reflection on his ability.

The wrestler has to establish his character and keep it over as a face. Cena doesn't anymore. It's stale.

Yes, because moveset determines quality of wrestler.

Tell that to guys like Hogan, Steve Austin, Stan Hansen, Vader, etc.

You need to have at least some in ring skills for the audience to see somethin watchable. Those guys you named didn't. Austin,Hogan lived on gimmicks.

Again, determined by booking. Not indicative of his ability.

Title runs have an effect on his character staleness. I just said that. Read.

Again, determined by booking. Notice a pattern yet?

Cena's PPV matches since WM 23. All terrible and predictable (ex Lashley). Notice the pattern to why people dislike him yet?

His promos and mic ability are some of the best in the company. He rarely flubs lines, always gets his point across, almost never stutters, and does in an engaging way. His acting ability in promo is some of the best in the company, and he's incredibly versatile, as has been demonstrated by the variety of opponents he's had.

Repeated promos are excellent??WTF. Trying to be The Rock with dumb jokes that rarely crack a smile on the audience faces? Excellent? No he's not the best is he good? Yes but is he the best? No i'd rank HHH,Kennedy,HBK,Orton,Edge,MVP all in his area with 3 of them in Kennedy,HHH and Edge all better on the mic than Cena.

Since it is obviously WAY to difficult for you to go back one whole page,

Why? Your like John Cena I already know what your going to say..

I'll explain. My point was that an Umaga/Orton match on Raw would not have had near the heat as it did with Cena in it. Cena gave that match, and Randy Orton, a lot more heat than he would have gotten otherwise. That was the point.

Has there even been an Orton/Umaga match?? Don't think so. So how would you know? I don't understand what your trying to say with RKO drawing heat because of Cena but it's whatever.

Let's see. I say that the guy who is on top of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world, who makes the WWE the most money, is in the highest rated segments and has put on 2 MOTYC in 2007 alone already is comparable to a 42 year old man with bad knees. And, that somehow is worse than saying something that has been proved blatantly false with video evidence.

Sorry, I'm going to have to stick with 50/50.

Let's see. You say that a guy in HBK. Who once had the same spotlight John Cena had during the Monday Night Wars against WCW. Who put on good matches monthly. Also one of the best heels ever. Who was the face of the biggest stable in Professional Wrestling is comparable to a guy Who is getting "X Pac" heat from crowds,Terrible Promos,God Awful in the ring. Completly overrated.


I think I'll stay with that 70/30

 

[Slyfox696]

Not everybody loves Cena like you. Sorry.

Not everyone thinks Cena sucks like you. Sorry.

HAHA,I've seen several arguements where you have been torn to shreds. Don't have an attitude change like Cena supposedly has.

Like?

And I have given you several reasons why Cena IS despised and isn't a good wrestler. *yawn* this is getting ridiculous..

No, you gave me reasons why you didn't like him, which we've already established was due to booking or irrelevant to good wrestling.

And, if it is getting ridiculous, then you should try coming up with original material.

The wrestler has to establish his character and keep it over as a face. Cena doesn't anymore. It's stale.

If his character is stale, then that is the job of creative to give him something new. Seriously, this isn't rocket science.

Title runs have an effect on his character staleness. I just said that. Read.

Title runs are determined by booking. I just said that. Read.

Cena's PPV matches since WM 23. All terrible and predictable (ex Lashley). Notice the pattern to why people dislike him yet?

Wait wait wait. This is a good one. So, a four way match at Backlash was the same match as Judgement Day against Khali? And, he's had three singles matches on PPV since WM 23, two of which were against Khali, and the other you said was solid (at the least) and you are using THAT as an example?

How about his match with Lashley? How about his match with HBK? How about his match with Umaga? Or Edge? Or RVD? Or Triple H?

But, I guess all those guys carried him as well.

See, this is the kind of nonsense that just gets so tiring to read. You say his matches since WM have been terrible, and two of them involved 4 people or more, two of them were against Khali, and the other was against Lashley and was a good match. How does that make sense at all?

Repeated promos are excellent??WTF. Trying to be The Rock with dumb jokes that rarely crack a smile on the audience faces? Excellent? No he's not the best is he good? Yes but is he the best? No i'd rank HHH,Kennedy,HBK,Orton,Edge,MVP all in his area with 3 of them in Kennedy,HHH and Edge all better on the mic than Cena.

See, you don't seem to understand what makes good ability. WHAT you say does not determine your ability NEAR as much as HOW you deliver it and how you get the point across. And, Cena does it nearly flawless, and does it with incredible smoothness. Something that Kennedy, Orton, and MVP don't do.

Edge is probably the best on the mic in the company. HHH and Cena are quite good. HBK is a step behind.

And, Kennedy better than Cena? HAHAHAHAHA. Don't get me wrong, Kennedy knows how to pronounce his name, but that's the sum extent of what he does.

Why? Your like John Cena I already know what your going to say..

So you quit being ignorant? You had no idea what I was talking about and you seemed pleased with that ignorance.

Has there even been an Orton/Umaga match?? Don't think so. So how would you know? I don't understand what your trying to say with RKO drawing heat because of Cena but it's whatever.

I mean that RKO got a lot more heat because some fans wanted to show how much they hated Cena. So, they get behind the other guy in the ring.

Let's see. You say that a guy in HBK. Who once had the same spotlight John Cena had during the Monday Night Wars against WCW. Who put on good matches monthly. Also one of the best heels ever. Who was the face of the biggest stable in Professional Wrestling is comparable to a guy Who is getting "X Pac" heat from crowds,Terrible Promos,God Awful in the ring. Completly overrated.


I think I'll stay with that 70/30

Hmm, comparing Cena, the most over guy in the company, the best draw on Raw, who sells more merchandise than anyone else on the roster, and has already put on several great matches against HBK who had one of the worst drawing reigns in WWF history, and who refused to put people over constantly.

That was my claim. You claimed that there were numerous Randy and Cena Sucks chants during Randy's promo, which I proved false.

Now, when it comes to believability, where should we go? One with the opinion that can be supported? Or one whose statement was proven false? I have to say me.

You should probably stick with that 50/50.

You need to have at least some in ring skills for the audience to see somethin watchable. Those guys you named didn't. Austin,Hogan lived on gimmicks.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Ok, I'm done talking to you. If you think Austin and Stan Hansen and Hulk Hogan didn't have in-ring skill, then there's no use continuing this conversation. I suppose Bruiser Brody and Randy Savage in the WWF sucked as well right? It doesn't matter. I'm finished with this.


You keep saying the same ridiculous things over and over, and you have yet to address anything that deals with in-ring ability, other than moveset which you feel is partly why Steve Austin and Stan Hansen and Vader all sucked.

I'll tell you what. If you can create a post dealing with Cena's ability IN THE RING, with nothing to do with character or promos or whatever, then we can talk.

I also want you to answer this question. If Cena sucks as a wrestler, then how come he has so many damn good matches?


Additionally, just to jump the gun, don't say he sucks because he has to be carried to have a good match, and don't say he has good matches because he is carried. That's called begging the question and is a logical fallacy.

So, keeping in mind to avoid begging the question, explain why Cena sucks in the ring, and explain how he has so many good matches if he sucks.

 

[Lil Wes]

Wait wait wait. This is a good one. So, a four way match at Backlash was the same match as Judgement Day against Khali? And, he's had three singles matches on PPV since WM 23, two of which were against Khali, and the other you said was solid (at the least) and you are using THAT as an example?

Backlash-Sucked,Predictable,other wrestlers to cover Cena's suckiness up. Other Wrestlers to get Cena more over as a God. Same with Vengeance

Khali- Sucked,unbearable to watch. Caused buyrates to bomb along with the others we mentioned.

But, I guess all those guys carried him as well.

Mostly.

See, you don't seem to understand what makes good ability. WHAT you say does not determine your ability NEAR as much as HOW you deliver it and how you get the point across. And, Cena does it nearly flawless, and does it with incredible smoothness. Something that Kennedy, Orton, and MVP don't do.

No if you think John Cena's mic ability is 24k gold. Then you my freind don't understand what makes good promo ability. I've explained why and i'mnot again.

Edge is probably the best on the mic in the company. HHH and Cena are quite good. HBK is a step behind.

HBK has and always will be one step ahead of John Cena.

And, Kennedy better than Cena? HAHAHAHAHA. Don't get me wrong, Kennedy knows how to pronounce his name, but that's the sum extent of what he does.

Kennedy is one of the best in the business on the mic. He single handely can turn a crowd from giving him a loud pop to booing his ass out of the building. Ya Boy Johnny can't get the Cena haters to turn around and like him. Because.

1- He isn't funny

2-He repeats promos and shit phrases

3- Stale Character

People are tired of seeing and hearing the same shit. Get over it.

So you quit being ignorant? You had no idea what I was talking about and you seemed pleased with that ignorance.

I love the ignorance of John Cena fans. I always get a good laugh.

I mean that RKO got a lot more heat because some fans wanted to show how much they hated Cena. So, they get behind the other guy in the ring

.

No,RKO has been getting positive reactions like he is now for quite some time. I agree he gets more when he's up against Cena but then again who doesn't? My point made. The fucking Great Khali got a few chants against Cena. Why? Stale Character people are tired of seeing.

Hmm, comparing Cena, the most over guy in the company, the best draw on Raw, who sells more merchandise than anyone else on the roster, and has already put on several great matches against HBK who had one of the worst drawing reigns in WWF history, and who refused to put people over constantly.

You obviously watch and like John a little too much. Because you are starting to repeat your Posting Moveset quite often. I'm going to be the Mr.Kennedy of this thread and not repeat myself(ex My Name).

You should probably stick with that 50/50.

How about you clean your ears,watch the damned video and you'll notice its 70/30.

HAHAHAHAHA.

Ok, I'm done talking to you. If you think Austin and Stan Hansen and Hulk Hogan didn't have in-ring skill, then there's no use continuing this conversation. I suppose Bruiser Brody and Randy Savage in the WWF sucked as well right? It doesn't matter. I'm finished with this.

Thank You,now I can move on to posting on someone that isn't an overrated ass kisser.

You keep saying the same ridiculous things over and over, and you have yet to address anything that deals with in-ring ability, other than moveset which you feel is partly why Steve Austin and Stan Hansen and Vader all sucked.

And you don't? I listed the reasons 10 fucking times in this thread. Why repeat myself and other posters?

I'll tell you what. If you can create a post dealing with Cena's ability IN THE RING, with nothing to do with character or promos or whatever, then we can talk.

Been there.Done that.

I also want you to answer this question. If Cena sucks as a wrestler, then how come he has so many damn good matches?

. Umaga(overrated but good) HBK on RAW. Lashley at GAB(was ok) is all I can think of from this year at the moment.

Cena isn't consistent in putting on good matches while he's the champion. Another point of mine I've said 100000000 times.

So, keeping in mind to avoid begging the question, explain why Cena sucks in the ring, and explain how he has so many good matches if he sucks.

Predictable

Same Routines

Same Moves

No Selling

Cannot Carry a Match

The basic few. I'd go on but remember your not going to reply to me anymore. So I think I'll call it quits.

By the way. Be sure to order SummerSlam

 

[Slyfox696]

Kennedy is one of the best in the business on the mic. He single handely can turn a crowd from giving him a loud pop to booing his ass out of the building.

When has this happened? The only thing Kennedy ever does is say his name real loud. How is that good mic skills? He pauses between every line given and it is the same generic stuff every other wrestler says.

. Umaga(overrated but good) HBK on RAW. Lashley at GAB(was ok) is all I can think of from this year at the moment.

Cena isn't consistent in putting on good matches while he's the champion. Another point of mine I've said 100000000 times.

He's not consistent at putting on good matches? What do you consider to be consistent good matches? Because of the 6 1-on-1 matches he's had on PPV this year, 3 of them were very good, and the other three were average, two of which included Khali. Last year, in his 1-on-1 matches as champion or was challenging for a title, he had a solid match against Edge at Royal Rumble, he had a hell of a match against HHH, carried RVD to a good match at ONS, had a very good match with Edge at Summerslam, and an even better match at Unforgiven (and a good cage match the next night on Raw). If I'm not mistaken, those were the only 1-on-1 matches with a title on the line. And, not a one of them were bad.

So, what is your basis for saying this?

Predictable

Clarify for me. What is predictable about Cena?

Same Routines

Yes, that's called psychology. Ask Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan how it works.

Same Moves

What does that have to do with ability as a wrestler?

No Selling

Provide me three instances of Cena blatantly no-selling. You may not use Wrestlemania 23 as one instance.

Cannot Carry a Match

You must not have seen his match with RVD or his match with Lashley then.

The basic few. I'd go on but remember your not going to reply to me anymore. So I think I'll call it quits.

I said I would reply to comments about in-ring ability.

But, your comments are just the same as everyone else's and completely lacks understanding of psychology, storytelling, and in some cases is devoid of facts.

See, it appears to me you are from the "more moves equals better wrestler" school. It also appears as if you have trouble seeing past the surface of the match and what is really going on.

Since you explained your reasons against Cena, I'll do the same for him.

1. His matches always have great heat throughout the match. - This is generally a sign of great storytelling, especially since John Cena doesn't use big spots to generate cheap pops. If Cena's matches, and Cena himself, really did suck, then interest in the match would die away at some point. But, the ending to the matches are generally hotter than the beginning. Usually, this is an example of Cena's ability to create a story in the ring.

2. He knows how to tell a story in the ring. - People find themselves drawn into his matches, and care about how he ends the match. Those who like him have an intense desire for him to win and are on the edge of their seat at the end of the match because they really believe this may be the time Cena loses. Those who dislike him have an intense desire for him to lose and are on the edge of their seat because they really believe this time will be when someone else wins. He knows how to make the crowd care about the story of a match, much like Hulk Hogan always used to be able to.

3. He is a very good seller - His selling is completely realistic and usually advances the match. If you notice, many times when he sells a strike, he'll stumble and fall down, conveniently in the place where the next spot is to occur. Additionally, he really does make his fans believe that he is struggling to get to the end of the match, which ties back into making people believe he really is beatable, tying into being able to tell a story in the ring. The fact that he sells towards the next spot leads to...

4. His spots flow seamlessly into one another with near flawless transitions. - Very rare are the instances where you notice in a John Cena match he and his opponent are working themselves towards a spot. Take for example a Jeff Hardy or RVD match. There are many times where you are painfully aware that they are working toward a spot. You may not know what's coming, but you know a spot is coming because the transitions between the spots are not at all fluid nor even logical many times. That's not the case with Cena matches.

5. He understands wrestling psychology. - He understands how to work a crowd. In fact, his workrate is one of the best in the WWE. He knows work a crowd and knows how to twist them to his will. His moveset is dedicated to the areas which his finishers address. The 5 Moves of Doom people complain about is GREAT wrestling psychology because subconsciously, they begin to realize that the match is getting close to over, so they begin to get antsy and edgy waiting for what will eventually happen. Additionally, if you want to look at it from a pure kayfabe standpoint, it is Cena getting down to the end of the match, and going with his "go-to" moves to put an opponent away, his most trusted and reliable to finish the task. It's great wrestling psychology.

6 He is versatile in the ring. - He has worked with big men, he's worked with little men, he's worked with strong guys, he's worked with cocky guys. He's worked classic 1-on-1 matches, he's worked gimmick matches...and he's been successful in every instance. There has yet to be an instance in which he's performed under expectations in relation to his peers. What I mean by that is, yeah, the match with Khali wasn't exceptional, but it was on par with everyone else. But, take Shawn Michaels match with Mr. Perfect. It was clearly not up to expectations. Cena has yet to be in a match and not met or exceeded expectations, and he's done it with such a wide variety of opportunities.


Given all that he's accomplished, I just don't understand how people can think he still is a poor in-ring wrestler. If you don't LIKE his character, so be it. Different people, different strokes. But, at this point, given the long list of successes he's had, in and out of the ring, saying he "sucks" just really doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[mabuza]

All this anti-Cena stuff is similar to the heat the Rock 1st got when he became champ.People also felt then that he was being rammed down our throats& didnt deserve his top spot.I think people have stopped looking at Cena objectively.He 's no Bret Hart between the ropes,but he's competent enough.And he' clearly has to wrestle a protected style(albeit too protected at times) because he's the one putting over the WWE right now.It would be a disaster if John was to be sidelined eve for a couple of weeks due to injury.The episode of RAW when he was of in L.A for the Larry King Show sucked.Not even Kennedy was able to carry the show(and he's given sooo much hype)
Anywhere you go in the world right now,as soon as you mention WWE,people think CENA,just as they did HOGAN,BRET HART,AUSTIN,ROCK. I agree with Vince back i 2003 during a proo for Austin's "rehiring": He said fans where like kids who only want candy for breakfast,lunch& dinner,and that the WWE had to act as responsible parents.Its the same thing here as well.In order for the business to survive it needs megastars like Cena.And the only way to put them over is to give them long title reigns.Love John or hate him,he's still the biggest draw in the WWE.More people have showed up to shows to boo than some guys have there to cheer them.

 

[LgKQc]

originally posted by Slyfox696
When has this happened? The only thing Kennedy ever does is say his name real loud. How is that good mic skills? He pauses between every line given and it is the same generic stuff every other wrestler says.

Do you remember the week after kennedy was traded to raw?? everybody thought that we was turning face, so he got huge pops but then so suddenly he turns against the fan after saying that it was our fault that he lost the MITB. So he got loud heat.

originally posted by Slyfox696
Clarify for me. What is predictable about Cena?

Slyfox696, when i first got here on this site, i hated john cena! but after all reading your comments, you've brought good points that made me realize how great cena is! but seriously! are you not a little bit tired of cena's reign as champion?? how can you say that he's not predictable!!! the guy gets beat down by his opponent every match but all suddent at the end, he makes an unbelievable comeback, defeats the guy and overcome the odds yet again! you HAVE to admit that every raw ppvs have become to predictable! yeahh you've said a lots of things a hundred times! but look at the poll! look how much people hate cena! you've got to stop defending him... because some people dont give a shit about what you say! They dont give a crap about how much money he brings to the WWE! They and I just want a freaking new CHAMP! like i said i dont hate cena but he has become boring and he needs a new gimmick and a new image! PLEASE admit it!

 

[Lil Wes]

All this anti-Cena stuff is similar to the heat the Rock 1st got when he became champ.People also felt then that he was being rammed down our throats& didnt deserve his top spot.I think people have stopped looking at Cena objectively.He 's no Bret Hart between the ropes,but he's competent enough.And he' clearly has to wrestle a protected style(albeit too protected at times) because he's the one putting over the WWE right now.It would be a disaster if John was to be sidelined eve for a couple of weeks due to injury.The episode of RAW when he was of in L.A for the Larry King Show sucked.Not even Kennedy was able to carry the show(and he's given sooo much hype)

It would be a blessing if John Cena took some time off. Not only for him but for everybody. Cena has been bustin his ass off for 3 straight years and we have been constantly seeing him shoved down our throats for those same 3 years. BULLSHIT!. In no way will Cena taking time off have any sort of disaster. It would be better for his character and open up spot for someone else to work with.

O yeah. surrre Kennedy is really going to carry that show when he was being burried in the mid-card at the time.

Anywhere you go in the world right now,as soon as you mention WWE,people think CENA,just as they did HOGAN,BRET HART,AUSTIN,ROCK. I agree with Vince back i 2003 during a proo for Austin's "rehiring": He said fans where like kids who only want candy for breakfast,lunch& dinner,and that the WWE had to act as responsible parents.Its the same thing here as well.In order for the business to survive it needs megastars like Cena.And the only way to put them over is to give them long title reigns.Love John or hate him,he's still the biggest draw in the WWE.More people have showed up to shows to boo than some guys have there to cheer them.[/

I've said that a 100 times as well. I don't have to here it again. "O well he's the biggest draw" whooptie fucking doo. People are sick of him winning,overcoming odds, His shit matches at PPV's we have to spend 40 dollers on,Terrible wrestling,boring repeated promos etc...Face it Cena fans...It's time for some kind of change.

O yeah. That same episode of Larry King. Remember who had to take up minutes of TV time? There's my point constantly constanly constanly shoved down our throats. Not to mention that however minutes he has was pathetic.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox696, when i first got here on this site, i hated john cena! but after all reading your comments, you've brought good points that made me realize how great cena is!

I am glad.

but seriously! are you not a little bit tired of cena's reign as champion??

Honestly, no.

how can you say that he's not predictable!!!

He doesn't book who wins or loses.

the guy gets beat down by his opponent every match but all suddent at the end, he makes an unbelievable comeback, defeats the guy and overcome the odds yet again!

Actually, very few of his PPV matches follow this form. That describes more of his Raw matches than his PPV matches.

but look at the poll! look how much people hate cena!

I assure you, this poll is not indicative of all wrestling fans everywhere. I could present you to another poll which show quite a few people enjoy John Cena. I won't, because it's on another board, but there are many wrestling knowledgeable people who think Cena is quality.

you've got to stop defending him... because some people dont give a shit about what you say!

They should. They keep wondering why Cena is still champion and still on top, and I explain it to them. They may not accept or like the reasoning, but, it is pretty much the explanation they are searching for, even if they disagree with it.

They dont give a crap about how much money he brings to the WWE!

But, see, that's what determines who is on top of the card in the wrestling business. Guys who make money and draw are the guys who are at the main-event. It's the same thing for every promotion everywhere, and has been throughout all of history. There has never been a promotion who has left a wrestler at the top of the card for extended periods of time that didn't make the company more money than most others. Fans want to separate the business side from the on-camera side, but it just doesn't work like that.

They and I just want a freaking new CHAMP! like i said i dont hate cena but he has become boring and he needs a new gimmick and a new image! PLEASE admit it!

I can understand why people want a new champion. Fans today are incredibly fickle and think that titles should change hands like they did in the Attitude era. Many of todays fans don't have any kind of long-term patience and it's very much an "immediate gratification" culture. But, there are several benefits to this style of booking. And, Cena is adopting a new attitude before your very eyes.

I've said that a 100 times as well. I don't have to here it again. "O well he's the biggest draw" whooptie fucking doo. People are sick of him winning,overcoming odds, His shit matches at PPV's we have to spend 40 dollers on,Terrible wrestling,boring repeated promos etc...Face it Cena fans...It's time for some kind of change.

When he stops drawing better than anyone else on the roster, THEN it will be time for a change. As long as people keep watching his segment, and as long as people keep buying his merchandise, and as long as people keep showing up for live shows, then the WWE would foolish to change him, especially now with rosters as thin as they are. You think he should change, but you can't argue with facts. And, if he is currently the best, why would you do anything to alter that and risk losing the benefits he creates as he is?

O yeah. That same episode of Larry King. Remember who had to take up minutes of TV time? There's my point constantly constanly constanly shoved down our throats. Not to mention that however minutes he has was pathetic.

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you explain further, and eliminate so many pronouns?

 

[Lil Wes]

He doesn't book who wins or loses.

Yeah but he has to establish his character and put on the matches. He does both quite shitty.

Actually, very few of his PPV matches follow this form. That describes more of his Raw matches than his PPV matches.

Wrong. He's been booked in gimmick matches and matches with 3 or 4 other wrestlers to cover up his shit wrestling skills more than likely. Lashley's match with him impressed me millions. Cena puts on consistent matches like that one every month I wouldn't have any problem with his in ring ability. Don't get me wrong though the match with Lashley wasn't incredibly great but it was a good average match better than what Cena has done on PPV since WM 23. Also his mic work in the feud was actually very good.

I assure you, this poll is not indicative of all wrestling fans everywhere. I could present you to another poll which show quite a few people enjoy John Cena. I won't, because it's on another board, but there are many wrestling knowledgeable people who think Cena is quality.

Cena haters are just as knowlegable. Hell most people here have been watching wrestling since they were kids.

I can understand why people want a new champion. Fans today are incredibly fickle and think that titles should change hands like they did in the Attitude era. Many of todays fans don't have any kind of long-term patience and it's very much an "immediate gratification" culture. But, there are several benefits to this style of booking. And, Cena is adopting a new attitude before your very eyes.

An attitude change isn't going to help him. People our going to hate him simply because he's had that fucking title to long and his promo ability has gone whack lately.

When he stops drawing better than anyone else on the roster, THEN it will be time for a change. As long as people keep watching his segment, and as long as people keep buying his merchandise, and as long as people keep showing up for live shows, then the WWE would foolish to change him, especially now with rosters as thin as they are. You think he should change, but you can't argue with facts. And, if he is currently the best, why would you do anything to alter that and risk losing the benefits he creates as he is?

WWE hasn't gave anyone else a shot.. So how would they know if HHH,RKO etc.. could outdraw Cena. HHH and RKO wouldn't have the problems Cena does and that is putting on consistent watchable matches and promos. WWE will not lose money taking Cena away from the spotlight. For god's sake he needs it. WWE needs it. RAW is shit and unwatchable. CHANGE! Also I guess you will have to be calling them foolish after SS. Orton gets his shot and disapoints(sp). Then and only then will I say you were right. Problem is though is fucking HHH so I doubt he gets a decent reign.

I don't understand what you mean here. Could you explain further, and eliminate so many pronouns?

I'm in 11th grade. I could give a rat's ass about a pronoun.

My point is. Cena was gone and yet they still have to give him TV time.

That is constantly shoving him down our throats.

The minute he had was shit and he got hardly any cheers. It was a waste.

 

[Slyfox696]

Wrong. He's been booked in gimmick matches and matches with 3 or 4 other wrestlers to cover up his shit wrestling skills more than likely. Lashley's match with him impressed me millions. Cena puts on consistent matches like that one every month I wouldn't have any problem with his in ring ability. Don't get me wrong though the match with Lashley wasn't incredibly great but it was a good average match better than what Cena has done on PPV since WM 23. Also his mic work in the feud was actually very good.

You are not even addressing what I said. I said that very few of his PPV matches follow the form which was described by the other person. You go back to saying the same damn things you've been saying throughout the entire thread.

If you are going to respond to a particular section of my post, please actually address the comment.

Cena haters are just as knowlegable. Hell most people here have been watching wrestling since they were kids.

Never said they weren't. Again, you seem to miss the point of my post. The point was that this forum doesn't speak for all wrestling knowledgeable fans.

An attitude change isn't going to help him. People our going to hate him simply because he's had that fucking title to long and his promo ability has gone whack lately.

This is called blind hate. You are hating him, despite him actually changing into something different. You are hating him based on something he doesn't control, and something you know nothing about because it hasn't happened yet.

How can you even pretend to be objective when discussing this subject with statements like this?

WWE hasn't gave anyone else a shot

I'm sorry, I didn't realize they canceled Smackdown and ECW. Because, those were always good places for someone to prove them self as a good moneymaker. Coincidentally, is that not where John Cena proved himself?

That argument is doesn't hold up.

So how would they know if HHH

2003, 2004

RKO

2004

Also I guess you will have to be calling them foolish after SS. Orton gets his shot and disapoints(sp). Then and only then will I say you were right. Problem is though is fucking HHH so I doubt he gets a decent reign.

No, I refuse to criticize someone or something based on future events I know nothing about. I hope that if Orton does win, he does a fine job drawing as champion. I want to see the WWE succeed and if having another proven draw on the show helps, I'm all for it.

I'm in 11th grade. I could give a rat's ass about a pronoun.

I meant that it was hard to follow your statement because you used your pronouns rather carelessly. I'm in college, and I do care about pronouns.

My point is. Cena was gone and yet they still have to give him TV time.

That is constantly shoving him down our throats.

The minute he had was shit and he got hardly any cheers. It was a waste.

Wait, so after going on The Larry King Live show and wonderfully representing the WWE, and getting a huge compliment from Bret Hart saying that if people wanted to have a role model their children could look up to, then they should watch John Cena, they should have just kept him entirely off the show? How does that make sense, in ANY way shape or fashion.

He had a 1 or 2 minute interview. If you consider 1 or 2 minutes of TV time for the current WWE Champ and number one guy in the promotion after defending the WWE on an incredibly serious and potentially damaging topic, to be "shoving him down our throats", then I'm afraid you just don't have very realistic expectations.

 

[Lil Wes]

You are not even addressing what I said. I said that very few of his PPV matches follow the form which was described by the other person. You go back to saying the same damn things you've been saying throughout the entire thread.

You say the same Bullshit like Cena does. I'm sick of repeating myself. Cena is a joke in the ring. Period. Simple as that. Why? go back and read my posts.

If you are going to respond to a particular section of my post, please actually address the comment.

You haven't yet.

Never said they weren't. Again, you seem to miss the point of my post. The point was that this forum doesn't speak for all wrestling knowledgeable fans.

Cena fans are women and children. Women go to ask him to marry them and look at his abs. Highly doubt they even care about the matches or know what good matches are. Some do. Some don't.

Kids-No nothing about what a good match is. They don't understand the real side of wrestling. They like Cena because it makes them look cool because Cena is a god.

Slyfox696- Obviously,A hulkamaniac. That has a different taste in entertainment and wrestling that we here at WZ and other places around the world do. He's knowledgeable but different.

I'm sure theres alot of others like you out there as well.

This is called blind hate. You are hating him, despite him actually changing into something different. You are hating him based on something he doesn't control, and something you know nothing about because it hasn't happened yet.

I'll straight up tell you. I fucking hate John Cena. I'm not hating on what he doesn't control he controls his promos and matches and to me they suck.

How can you even pretend to be objective when discussing this subject with statements like this?

It's the truth. People wouldn't care. He's had the belt to long. They are sick of it.

2003, 2004

Past. Not 2007

2004

Past. Not 2007

No, I refuse to criticize someone or something based on future events I know nothing about. I hope that if Orton does win, he does a fine job drawing as champion. I want to see the WWE succeed and if having another proven draw on the show helps, I'm all for it.

Finally.

Wait, so after going on The Larry King Live show and wonderfully representing the WWE, and getting a huge compliment from Bret Hart saying that if people wanted to have a role model their children could look up to, then they should watch John Cena, they should have just kept him entirely off the show? How does that make sense, in ANY way shape or fashion.

They could have kept him off one night. It wouldn't have hurt. RAW is shit with or without Cena anyways. They just had to have Cena on TV so the girls could get their weekly orgasm and kids could see the superhuman of the world.

Sickening. Yes this is blind Cena hate. I hate Cena. It's very noticeable. Why? already told you

He had a 1 or 2 minute interview. If you consider 1 or 2 minutes of TV time for the current WWE Champ and number one guy in the promotion after defending the WWE on an incredibly serious and potentially damaging topic, to be "shoving him down our throats", then I'm afraid you just don't have very realistic expectations.

I have good expectations for the WWE. Watch SummerSlam. I'm done with this thread.

 

[Slyfox696]

You say the same Bullshit like Cena does. I'm sick of repeating myself. Cena is a joke in the ring. Period. Simple as that. Why? go back and read my posts.

I was actually addressing the comment. You are not. You are trying to spin the argument and I'm not allowing that.

The original statement was, in so many words, that Cena's matches all follow the same format. I responded with the fact that no, Cena's PPV matches don't usually follow that format, it is the Raw matches which follow said format.

Unless you have anything to contribute to THAT line of thinking, don't bother posting.

Cena fans are women and children. Women go to ask him to marry them and look at his abs. Highly doubt they even care about the matches or know what good matches are. Some do. Some don't.

Kids-No nothing about what a good match is. They don't understand the real side of wrestling. They like Cena because it makes them look cool because Cena is a god.

That's great. Not only did you completely miss the point of my message (again), you managed to insult the intelligence and knowledge of several classes of wrestling fans. Way to go.

Slyfox696- Obviously,A hulkamaniac. That has a different taste in entertainment and wrestling that we here at WZ and other places around the world do. He's knowledgeable but different.

Damn straight I'm a Hulkamaniac. The question is, why aren't you? Hulk Hogan is the man who lead wrestling through not one, but TWO boom periods, who is a world-renown wrestler, who has been mega over every where he went whether it be AWA, WWF, Japan, WCW, or the new WWE. He has the greatest charisma of all time, and is a damn fine in-ring worker. You say I'm a Hulkamaniac like it's something to be ashamed of. I'm proud to be a Hulkamaniac. The question is, why aren't you?

Why don't you understand that wrestling is not about random moves and spots, but rather about the drama and storytelling? I can watch a training video and get all the moves I want to see, but I can't see the drama created when Warrior considers leaving at WM 7 which causes his retirement. I can't get goosebumps from a training video like I do with Rock/Hogan at Wrestlemania 18. I can't feel a wrestlers pain and exhaustion from a training video like I do from Cena at Royal Rumble 2007.

Wrestling is not about moves. It's about emotions, driven by quality storytelling. It's about being a part of something, about being drawn into the theater that is pro-wrestling. THAT'S what wrestling is all about. And, THAT'S why Cena is so damn good.

I'm sure theres alot of others like you out there as well.

There are plenty of knowledge, male, posters who think Cena is one of the best in the world.

I'll straight up tell you. I fucking hate John Cena. I'm not hating on what he doesn't control he controls his promos and matches and to me they suck.

If a pro wrestler whom you've never met, elicits such emotional reaction from you such a "hate", that seems odd to me.

Past. Not 2007

Past. Not 2007

You're right. Why not put the title on Gene Snitsky then? I'm sure he could have a remarkable run. Just because he sucked as a draw in the past, it's 2007.

Finally.

Finally what? This has been my position all along. And, John Cena as champion has been the best thing for the WWE, for many reasons.

They could have kept him off one night. It wouldn't have hurt. RAW is shit with or without Cena anyways. They just had to have Cena on TV so the girls could get their weekly orgasm and kids could see the superhuman of the world.

While I disagree, if Raw is going to be "shit with or without Cena anyways", then why not have their top draw on the show? If it's not going to change the quality as you just said, might as well have him on there.

I have good expectations for the WWE. Watch SummerSlam. I'm done with this thread.

I will watch SummerSlam. I'm excited for it.

And, c-ya later!

 

[mikeRC]

I cant stand Cenas character. he has had 3 years of being the top contender for the WWE title because 7 year olds think that he's the best. He ruined the WWE title when i thought it was at its best design (the undisputed WWE title design), his promos are crap!! his segment on carlitos cabanna where he interviewed himself was unbearable, his wrestling skills are terrible and predictable. it looks like Cena is about to lose the match till he finds some way to hold on to the title. and his gimmick is shit too a rapper/marine/odds overcomer that makes everything spin and gets booed every 3 weeks. WWE needs a change from this loop of a title run. if he went heel i think he would be a success but vinc is too determined to ruin his company with people like Cena and Khali

btw slyfox in the above comment you said that Hulk Hogan had the greatest Charisma of all time. though the hulkster had amazing charisma i have to disagree i think The Rock could keep a crowd entertained for hours with a michrophone

 

[crumblez]

i liked him in smackdown.. his face character is jus.. bullshit really.. he pulled it off as a punk ass wigger .. and its like he knows moves.. he really does guys i promise.. its jus he doesnt use them and when he does they look real good.. cause his juiced up ass.. get a new finisher other than the stfu ... maybe something like an FU into a piledriver eh.. w/e


he still has potentiol to be good

 

[usmanfcs]

Slyfox, your arguments are as boring as cena himself , i like the way you are defending him but it pisses me off more and more i read your arguments... no offence intented, u have 100 percent right to choose whatever u like, and so do i ...

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox, your arguments are as boring as cena himself , i like the way you are defending him but it pisses me off more and more i read your arguments... no offence intented, u have 100 percent right to choose whatever u like, and so do i ...

Agreed. I'm not trying to convince people that they should like him. If you don't like him, that's fine. But, I think that people should respect the quality of professional wrestler that he really is. I also debate when people create false arguments to justify their position.

If you don't like Cena, just say "he just doesn't do it for me". I may ask why, but as long as it's reasonably accurate and mostly subjective, I won't pursue it any further.

People like who they like. I'm just defending Cena's ability, that is all.

 

[Freedom 35]

there is so much misguided cena hate here. i am defenitely not a john cena fan but i know that its not his fault that his character is annoying its not his fault that hes kept the title for almost two full years its all about the booking. i will admit that when i hear john cena talk i want to shoot my ears off because hes IMO not funny. but what no one can say is that hes a bad wrestler. Hes defenitely not the best but you have to admit that when he comes on you are interested and entertained by what hes going to do whether you want him to win or not and i think if he had a different gimmick and ddnt have the title people would probably see him as the next big thing in wrestlimg

 

[jus2sik]

honestly i am a huge cena fan.........i believe he is more entertaining than most superstars. Ric Flair was a terrible seller but was "great" cena is a decent seller and will be possibly "great". Cena isnt the best in the ring, but is better than khali, Batista or thee triple H before his injuries....... his rapper was the best gimmick for him...his rap battles with kurt angle rikishi, the big show.that was hilarious television....i loved it...... he is getting a change in attitude little by little as being basically a cocky white "rapper".....it should be good to see what happens after he returns from filming a movie..... somebody has to love cena because he has been champ for an awfully long time even though they really dont have a wrestler than can carry the show. cena is a better wrestler than umaga...gosh umaga was a terrible wrestler when he was jamal.his move set really hasnt changed except the Samoan spike. cena does need a change in attitude but i still think he is entertaining and fun to watch sometimes.but all in all cena is one of the best in the wwe today

ric flair was a terrible seller? you obviously have no clue what your talking about, watch a few matches from the 70s and 80s, and maybe even the early 90s and you'll see how good he was, im not even gonna go through the rest of what you said as its clear your speaking complete garbage

 

[Lil Wes]

there is so much misguided cena hate here. i am defenitely not a john cena fan but i know that its not his fault that his character is annoying its not his fault that hes kept the title for almost two full years its all about the booking. i will admit that when i hear john cena talk i want to shoot my ears off because hes IMO not funny. but what no one can say is that hes a bad wrestler. Hes defenitely not the best but you have to admit that when he comes on you are interested and entertained by what hes going to do whether you want him to win or not and i think if he had a different gimmick and ddnt have the title people would probably see him as the next big thing in wrestlimg

Jesus Christ, It (IS!!!) Cena's fault. He's the one doing the promos. He's the one in the main event matches on PPV. The promo's are repeatable and Both during and ending of his matches everything he does is predictable. It's not misguided Cena hate. Its a fact. Yes the Booking,Writers and Vince are shit but Cena is the one that has to establish his character and keep his gimmick running. Cena is the one who has to do promos that keep people interested. Cena is the one that has to deliever the fucking matches on PPV and RAW. Cena does not. It isn't "misguided" Cena hate. You even said it yourself you want to "shoot your ears off" Why? Because Cena is getting god awful on the mic. It's not funny. It's reapeatable and boring. Same with his in ring skill. Its terrible. Shoulder blocks,Punching,getting beat around is all Cena is about. I've got to were I can predict the next move Cena will use. It's god awful. He isn't consistent delievering solid PPV matches. It's noticeable. Watch WM 23-GAB theres 2 out of 6(I believe) that Cena has put on a good match. Go back to the Rumble. Gimmick matches and tag matches was all he had this year. I think they are covering up his shit wrestling and putting him over as more of a God. He cannot carry and go and put on consistent 1 on 1 matches. I'm sick of this "misguided Cena hate" BS.

 

[ronalddeo]

The thing with cena is that the reason he got famous even with his shitty moves was due to his rapper gimmick. If you go back and look at wwe tapes before this gimmick, most notably the crowd, the way they are dressed. After cena entered with Cena the rapper gimmick, he bought hip hop to wwe and dressed differently. Sold mechandise coz he made it look cool. Look at the crowd now, males wanna be like him and dress up like him. Wwe saw dollar signs and invested in this guy and shoved him down our throats.
The point being cena the rapper is different to cena the marine. Why? coz as/when being rapper he dropped cool lines on the mic and was heelish when he cheated to win at times. Now he is plain boring but still famous from his rapper gimmick that kept him in the spotlight.

Why he sucks

Is that in the last 3years he still hasnt done anything to develop as a wrestler. 3 years = 2 new moves. stfu and top rope leg drop. Atleast i give credit to batista for being a team player. He doesnt take up mic time, jobs to fellow wrestlers and tries new moves like muscle buster or the green bay plunge...etc. Get the point?
As creative as cena is/was on the mic he isnt honing on his wrestling skills. Thats whats so predictable about him is that in the last 3 years he has been doing the same thing. Within the 1st 5mins he will hit all his moves of doom and then take a massive beating before hulking up and winning. If he was in an iron man match he will be exposed unless someone carries him through it ala HBK.

Women love him coz of his good looks, great body and that he is a athlete
Kids like him coz he over comes the odds just like hogan used to.

Some say he is the morden version of hulk hogan. But the problem is, we have seen this from hogan for over the last 15 years and its just not fun anymore.

He needs to drop the belt and stay off the title pic for 2years to freshen things up and then i wont mind him being champ again

I respect him as a person and keeping injury free but dont like him as a wrestler. thats all i wanted to say about that and thats that.

 

[Slyfox696]

Watch WM 23-GAB theres 2 out of 6(I believe) that Cena has put on a good match.

Yes, because, as we all know, Cena is the only one responsible for what you feel is a bad match (which Meltzer disagreed with by the way) when it comes to a match with 4 guys and a match with 5 guys in it. Because, clearly, no one else is responsible for the quality of the match with a multitude of guys in it. And, I'm sure just about anyone else on the roster would have gotten a 4 star match out of Khali at Judgment Day and ONS right? Hell, Cena's match with Khali was far superior to HBK's.

It's statements like that which give the term "blind hate" credence. When put in a one-on-one match with a competent opponent, he delivered, as you've already admitted. And, neither one of those matches were gimmick matches.

Is that in the last 3years he still hasnt done anything to develop as a wrestler. 3 years = 2 new moves. stfu and top rope leg drop.

Oh, so the only way to develop as a wrestler in the ring is to add new moves?

Within the 1st 5mins he will hit all his moves of doom and then take a massive beating before hulking up and winning.

Either you are over exaggerating for effect, or you don't watch his matches. Either way, it's hard to take your post seriously with statements like this.

If he was in an iron man match he will be exposed unless someone carries him through it ala HBK.

How did HBK carry him through it? Please give examples. Saying "HBK is great and Cena sucks" doesn't cut it. Show me how HBK carried Cena. Because from where I'm sitting, HBK has had about 4 top notch matches since 2005. And, half of them involved Cena. I would argue, particularly in the Raw match, that if anyone did the carrying it was Cena.

Women love him coz of his good looks, great body and that he is a athlete
Kids like him coz he over comes the odds just like hogan used to.

Or, because he has the ability to make people care about his matches, and draw interest into them? Or because he understands how to tell a story in the ring? No, it must be because women and children know nothing about wrestling.

 

[Lil Wes]

Yes, because, as we all know, Cena is the only one responsible for what you feel is a bad match (which Meltzer disagreed with by the way) when it comes to a match with 4 guys and a match with 5 guys in it. Because, clearly, no one else is responsible for the quality of the match with a multitude of guys in it. And, I'm sure just about anyone else on the roster would have gotten a 4 star match out of Khali at Judgment Day and ONS right? Hell, Cena's match with Khali was far superior to HBK's.

I find it funny that when you know your wrong you go and try to make me look bad. Face it Sly. Cena this year has dropped the ball. The 3 and 4 Superstars were added to make Cena look like a god,to put him over even more. Cena did jackshit in either one of those matches. It was carried by the others till Cena made the miracle overcoming all odds type comeback.

By the way I could give a flying fuck what Meltzer says.

HBK's match was on RAW and it was a squash because HBK was injured

It's statements like that which give the term "blind hate" credence. When put in a one-on-one match with a competent opponent, he delivered, as you've already admitted. And, neither one of those matches were gimmick matches.

He delivers but it's not consistent. Your missing my point. Go back read the post and try and make an arguement with what I said. Instead of trying to pick errors to counter.

Or, because he has the ability to make people care about his matches, and draw interest into them? Or because he understands how to tell a story in the ring? No, it must be because women and children know nothing about wrestling.

Children don't. Some Women might. Most....No.

 

[Freedom 35]

I've got to were I can predict the next move Cena will use.

you get that with every wrestler you cant tell me that hes bad for that because everyone likes to have a routine they use to finish off a match.

He isn't consistent delievering solid PPV matches. It's noticeable. Watch WM 23-GAB theres 2 out of 6(I believe) that Cena has put on a good match.

all of those matches with the exception of the Khali matches were solid but they werent great.

i am not a cena fan i just dont blame him for some of his flaws. and when i say hes a good wrestler i dont mean a great wrestler who's capable of being as good as hes made to be i mean hes solid and a consistent performer but still not mega star caliber. just to clear that up

 

[ronalddeo]

This is a message for Slyfox696

You are either obsessed with john cena or have too much time in your hand either that or you must be the chairman of john cena masterbation camp.
Doesnt it seem childish to you that you have to put your print on every comment that is made. relax, take it easy and find something better to do than this like peeling potatoes or doing your job. Isnt it obvious that alot and i mean alot of people dont like cena as a wrestler and its evident when he comes on tv then again opinions are like elbows. Say whatever you want to say about cena for personal satisfaction coz no one will give a crap. If you wanna spam me for this and kick me out this site please do so and yeah fuck you very very hard lol

 

[Slyfox696]

I find it funny that when you know your wrong you go and try to make me look bad. Face it Sly. Cena this year has dropped the ball. The 3 and 4 Superstars were added to make Cena look like a god,to put him over even more. Cena did jackshit in either one of those matches. It was carried by the others till Cena made the miracle overcoming all odds type comeback.

Wait...your argument that Cena has dropped the ball is based on 2 matches with 4 or more guys in them and 2 matches with the worst wrestler in the company, and you think I'M wrong? Please. Find me a 1-on-1 PPV championship match he's had, starting in 2006, that was bad, that does not include Khali. Find me one classic style 1-on-1 match for a championship that was bad. It can be gimmicked or not.

By the way I could give a flying fuck what Meltzer says.

Makes two of us.

He delivers but it's not consistent. Your missing my point. Go back read the post and try and make an arguement with what I said. Instead of trying to pick errors to counter.

No, I got your point loud and clear. Your point just lacks reasonable logic, that's all. It's "blind hate". If you really think that one person is the cause of a success or failure in a multi-person matches, then that is ridiculous. If you expect ANYONE to get a good match out of Khali, that's ridiculous. Cena's match with Khali at One Night Stand was probably the best match Khali has ever had.

Using that as an argument against Cena is silly, and you know it. You can put HBK or HHH or even Chris Benoit himself in the same place Cena has been this summer, and you would have gotten pretty much the same result. Success of a 4 or 5 man match does not rest on one person shoulder's and NO ONE has gotten anything above a solid match out of Khali. And, only two people have gotten a solid match out of Khali and that was Taker and Cena.

Children don't. Some Women might. Most....No.

I disagree completely with you. But, then again, I'm not arrogant to believe I'm a better fan than others. Not saying you are, just explaining why I think children and women understand wrestling a whole hell of a lot better than you claim.