[Official] John Cena Thread

[Lil Wes]

you get that with every wrestler you cant tell me that hes bad for that because everyone likes to have a routine they use to finish off a match.

Not just Finishes every move in the match. The whole match.

The following quote is brought to you By Yours Truly Big Wizzle..

Its terrible. Shoulder blocks,Punching,getting beat around is all Cena is about. I've got to were I can predict the next move Cena will use

Where in there did I say just the ending of the match???..even though I can predict that easily as well.

all of those matches with the exception of the Khali matches were solid but they werent great.

LOL!,10 minutes with 4 other fantastic superstars is great. Rarely being in volved in the match as champion is solid? LOL. No Selling at the biggest stage of them all is solid? Making HBK look god awful in the ring is solid?

Just to throw in a flaw on his mic skills.

Embarrasing yourself weekly on RAW by cracking jokes that nobody laughs at is solid?

Hogging up 15 minutes of RAW each week and making people lose interest in your promos is solid??

ok man. If you say so.

i am not a cena fan i just dont blame him for some of his flaws. and when i say hes a good wrestler i dont mean a great wrestler who's capable of being as good as hes made to be i mean hes solid and a consistent performer but still not mega star caliber. just to clear that up

Cena isn't consistent at all. On neither RAW or PPV. He goes from a good match to a god awful match in the blink of an eye. He just had a good match with Lashley at GAB. Now let's see if he drops the ball at SS.



Also by the way Slyfox696 I'm done arguing with you. So you can quote my posts all you want but I will not be responding to garbage I have already told you 1000 times.

Thank You,Big Wes

 

[Slyfox696]

This is a message for Slyfox696

You are either obsessed with john cena or have too much time in your hand

I have too much time on my hands. Plus, I enjoy the debate and no where will I get more debate than in a Cena thread.

Doesnt it seem childish to you that you have to put your print on every comment that is made.

Not at all. In the interest of not gaining an infraction, I will not comment on what I do feel is childish.

relax, take it easy and find something better to do than this like peeling potatoes or doing your job.

My student teaching doesn't start until Monday, and my job doesn't start until January. But, thank you for caring so much.

Isnt it obvious that alot and i mean alot of people dont like cena as a wrestler

Of course. I've already said, though, that I do'nt have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with people who don't enjoy Cena. I just debate those who make up false reasons for doing so.

Say whatever you want to say about cena for personal satisfaction coz no one will give a crap.

This very post you dedicated to me indicates differently.

If you wanna spam me for this and kick me out this site please do so and yeah fuck you very very hard lol

I don't spam, nor flame people, and I'm not a mod. I also don't make posts personal and make comments like your last one. I really see no need for it. I think everyone should be able to handle themselves maturely and debate rationally on a forum board. Big Wes and I have had quite the heated debate, but none of it has resorted to personal shots. It's been quite a fun debate, even if both of us get heated over it.

There's no need for comments such as yours.

 

[Slyfox696]

Also by the way Slyfox696 I'm done arguing with you. So you can quote my posts all you want but I will not be responding to garbage I have already told you 1000 times.

Thank You,Big Wes

I've been posting the exact same things to your comments, and have been doing it for much longer. I'm not sure why you think your comments some how mean more than everyone else who has said the exact same thing you have, but when you keep saying the same things everyone else has, I'm going to give you the same responses.

I also can't help but notice you have not once addressed the points I made on why Cena was a great wrestler. You keep talking about character and moves and whatever, and yet you have yet to address why I said he was a good wrestler.

In case you do come back, I will repost.





Since you explained your reasons against Cena, I'll do the same for him.

1. His matches always have great heat throughout the match. - This is generally a sign of great storytelling, especially since John Cena doesn't use big spots to generate cheap pops. If Cena's matches, and Cena himself, really did suck, then interest in the match would die away at some point. But, the ending to the matches are generally hotter than the beginning. Usually, this is an example of Cena's ability to create a story in the ring.

2. He knows how to tell a story in the ring. - People find themselves drawn into his matches, and care about how he ends the match. Those who like him have an intense desire for him to win and are on the edge of their seat at the end of the match because they really believe this may be the time Cena loses. Those who dislike him have an intense desire for him to lose and are on the edge of their seat because they really believe this time will be when someone else wins. He knows how to make the crowd care about the story of a match, much like Hulk Hogan always used to be able to.

3. He is a very good seller - His selling is completely realistic and usually advances the match. If you notice, many times when he sells a strike, he'll stumble and fall down, conveniently in the place where the next spot is to occur. Additionally, he really does make his fans believe that he is struggling to get to the end of the match, which ties back into making people believe he really is beatable, tying into being able to tell a story in the ring. The fact that he sells towards the next spot leads to...

4. His spots flow seamlessly into one another with near flawless transitions. - Very rare are the instances where you notice in a John Cena match he and his opponent are working themselves towards a spot. Take for example a Jeff Hardy or RVD match. There are many times where you are painfully aware that they are working toward a spot. You may not know what's coming, but you know a spot is coming because the transitions between the spots are not at all fluid nor even logical many times. That's not the case with Cena matches.

5. He understands wrestling psychology. - He understands how to work a crowd. In fact, his workrate is one of the best in the WWE. He knows work a crowd and knows how to twist them to his will. His moveset is dedicated to the areas which his finishers address. The 5 Moves of Doom people complain about is GREAT wrestling psychology because subconsciously, they begin to realize that the match is getting close to over, so they begin to get antsy and edgy waiting for what will eventually happen. Additionally, if you want to look at it from a pure kayfabe standpoint, it is Cena getting down to the end of the match, and going with his "go-to" moves to put an opponent away, his most trusted and reliable to finish the task. It's great wrestling psychology.

6 He is versatile in the ring. - He has worked with big men, he's worked with little men, he's worked with strong guys, he's worked with cocky guys. He's worked classic 1-on-1 matches, he's worked gimmick matches...and he's been successful in every instance. There has yet to be an instance in which he's performed under expectations in relation to his peers. What I mean by that is, yeah, the match with Khali wasn't exceptional, but it was on par with everyone else. But, take Shawn Michaels match with Mr. Perfect. It was clearly not up to expectations. Cena has yet to be in a match and not met or exceeded expectations, and he's done it with such a wide variety of opportunities.


Given all that he's accomplished, I just don't understand how people can think he still is a poor in-ring wrestler. If you don't LIKE his character, so be it. Different people, different strokes. But, at this point, given the long list of successes he's had, in and out of the ring, saying he "sucks" just really doesn't cut it anymore.


http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=217012&postcount=869

 

[Lil Wes]

Doesnt it seem childish to you that you have to put your print on every comment that is made.

Duh. Thats what the forums for. Debating on Wrestling not for flaming posters that disagree with you.

If you wanna spam me for this and kick me out this site please do so and yeah fuck you very very hard lol

If I was a mod. I'd say bye bye to you. Really theres no need for nonsense like this in wrestling forums.

I also can't help but notice you have not once addressed the points I made on why Cena was a great wrestler. You keep talking about character and moves and whatever, and yet you have yet to address why I said he was a good wrestler.

And you have yet to address why Cena's promo ability has gone whack and why Cena isn't a Great wrestler. Really though getting a Cena fan and a Cena hater in one arguement is like a judge arguing with Pacman Jones. You will never admit your wrong and neither will I

 

[Freedom 35]

Embarrasing yourself weekly on RAW by cracking jokes that nobody laughs at is solid?

Hogging up 15 minutes of RAW each week and making people lose interest in your promos is solid??

you dont have to remind me of this know hes annoying i cant stand him on the mic but dont you think youre a bit biased because if you werent you would notice that besides the Khali matches hes been consistent in all other ppvs and like slyfox says the matches on raw are much different than his ppv matches hes not as predictable on ppvs

 

[Slyfox696]

And you have yet to address why Cena's promo ability has gone whack and why Cena isn't a Great wrestler. Really though getting a Cena fan and a Cena hater in one arguement is like a judge arguing with Pacman Jones. You will never admit your wrong and neither will I

Hahahaha...nice analogy. I have addressed Cena's promo ability, you just disagreed. And, my post above yours is addressing why Cena is/is not a good wrestler.

It has been a fun debate though.

Of course, I don't have to admit I'm wrong, because I'm not.

 

[Lil Wes]

but dont you think youre a bit biased because if you werent you would notice that besides the Khali matches hes been consistent in all other ppvs and like slyfox says the matches on raw are much different than his ppv matches hes not as predictable on ppvs

No i'm not biased. I respect John Cena with a passion when it comes to his work ethic. Yes I think he isn't very talented in the ring but he does bust his ass off for the biz. I've said that before and I'll say it again.

He has had good matches but not consistenly.

Umaga at NYR- I didn't see but really did they have to put Cena even more over by pinning and undefeated Umaga. It could have pushed someone else to the top.

Umaga at Royal Rumble- Good solid gimmick match.

No Way Out vs Boretista and Taker - I didn't watch as that was a shitty looking PPV. So I can't comment. But Cena pinning Taker is ridiculous.

WM 23- Overated but OK. HBK couldn't make Cena look good in that match. He no selled and that is a big no no.

Backlash- Not 1 on 1. So it covered up his flaws.Not a good match though anyway.

Judgement Day- God Awful. Do I really have to say why?

ONS- See Above. Also another gimmick match that covers up his flaws.

Vengeance-He rarely did shit in this match. 10 minutes with 4 great superstars. Also another terrible match.

GAB- Best since RAW in Milan. He carried Lashley to what was a solid match.

RAW in Milan(whenever it was)- Fantastic,better than WM 23. MOTY is a possibility

Thats not very consistent. Too many extra added wrestlers and gimmicks to really tell how solid Cena was. That's why I'll wait and see what he go do with Orton before I rip him to shreds for inconsistency.

It has been a fun debate though.

It sure has.lol. Everybody has their own opinion and reasons why who they like and don't. I just hate when people come in here flaming. Theres no point in flaming somebody that disagrees with you.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The debate between Big Wes and Slyfox has been very interesting to read. So interesting, that I have actually stopped posting for awhile to read them.

Big Wes! I love your Cena hating attitude, I hate Cena aswell, but as an unbiased observer, I have to disagree with you on one point. Cena is solid on the mic! I enjoy his promos. I have said it before, Cena is on par with Austin or The Rock when it comes to mic skills. He is the best in the WWE right now on the mic and he has been the best since Austin or The Rock. I do agree about his in ring skills, however, same thing for the entire match. A great wrestler will have a way to finish the match; sure, but a great wrestler will also pull something new or not maybe new, but unexpected out of the hat. Like the best ever, The Undertaker! Occasionaly, he will through in a flying clothesline or running dive over the top rope into a great match. Cena fails to do this and for that he sucks!

Slyfox! you have given me new respect for Cena, but I still hate him! I have said it before, he can entertain, but he can't wrestle. His gimmick is horrible as well. Is he the doctor of thuganomics or is he a soldier? I haven't figured it out yet. The only thing that is constant in his gimmick is his reference to Ali. The champ is here. I think it is disrespectful for him to say that. You have to be great to reference or impersonate greatness and, sorry to say, Cena isn't great!

The only thing I hope is that RKO beats him at Summerslam. I am looking forward to this, because yet again, Cena goes up against someone who is better in the ring than he is, but this time, he better lose!

 

[Slyfox696]

Ask any real wrestler how he/she rates cena's wrestling ability.

Interesting you should bring it up...

A lot of people are calling John Cena the new Hulk Hogan. He's got the charisma, looks and he has held the title for a long time now. Do you think he could emulate your huge success?

If anybody can do it, he can.

I've talked to John and he's got a real big head on his shoulders. He's not jaded.

He definitely has the opportunity, simply because he keeps his options open.

He is not falling into that replaceable robotic cookie kind of character. He's definitely the one guy that is smart enough to rise and has the talent to move on.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003560001-2007370018,00.html


The man himself, the greatest professional who ever lived gave a glowing endorsement of Cena. If Cena's good enough for Hulk Hogan, he should be good enough for you.

 

[SSJPhenom]

And what is that supposed to mean? Hogan says that he is good enough? People say that Cena is the next Hogan? People said that Ultimate Warrior was the next Hogan. The same thing was said about Austin and The Rock. So what exactly does it mean that the same thing is said about Cena. I know that you are not putting Cena in the class of Hogan, Austin or The Rock! I will agree, he is as good as Ultimate Warrior, but that's it! Also, what makes Hogan the best? Is it because he is critically acclaimed or because he has a show a VH1. Hogan is one of my favorites, but he isn't the best that ever lived. Dusty Rhodes said it best, "If you ask an honest man, he would tell you that Ric Flair was the best to ever lace up a pair of boots!"

 

[Slyfox696]

And what is that supposed to mean? Hogan says that he is good enough? People say that Cena is the next Hogan? People said that Ultimate Warrior was the next Hogan. The same thing was said about Austin and The Rock. So what exactly does it mean that the same thing is said about Cena. I know that you are not putting Cena in the class of Hogan, Austin or The Rock! I will agree, he is as good as Ultimate Warrior, but that's it! Also, what makes Hogan the best? Is it because he is critically acclaimed or because he has a show a VH1. Hogan is one of my favorites, but he isn't the best that ever lived. Dusty Rhodes said it best, "If you ask an honest man, he would tell you that Ric Flair was the best to ever lace up a pair of boots!"

No, of course Cena is not in the same class as Hogan, Austin, or Rock (although, it wont be long before he closes in on Rock at the current rate). To say Cena is in that category would be foolish.

What makes Hogan the best? How about 20 years on top of the wrestling business? How about wildly popular every where he went, whether it be AWA, WWF, Japan, WCW, or even the WWE? How about being responsible for numerous changes in the industry? How about being the catalyst for not one, but TWO boom periods in history? How about being the biggest main-stream wrestling star ever? How about being the single largest draw ever?

All those would be a good start.

 

[hbk&triple h]

No, of course Cena is not in the same class as Hogan, Austin, or Rock (although, it wont be long before he closes in on Rock at the current rate). To say Cena is in that category would be foolish.

What makes Hogan the best? How about 20 years on top of the wrestling business? How about wildly popular every where he went, whether it be AWA, WWF, Japan, WCW, or even the WWE? How about being responsible for numerous changes in the industry? How about being the catalyst for not one, but TWO boom periods in history? How about being the biggest main-stream wrestling star ever? How about being the single largest draw ever?

All those would be a good start.

Although I hate Hogan Sly is totally right in every way.Woah, amazing that I said that.Now back on topic.

Cena is very predictable in the ring Sly.Most pay per view matches consist of him being beaten and the coming back miraculously.

And as for Shawn Michaels carrying him in the match on Raw the only reason I can come up with is that Cena had never been in that type of match before this.

 

[Azrael]

At a certain point, every Wrestler is predictable in the ring, the outcome and story of most films is at a certain point predictable. You can't blame Cena for the way he is booked, as a matter of fact, I've heard he WANTS to lose the title because he is overworked and desperately needs some time off, but no one else in the lockerroom WANTS the pressure of being the wwe champion. I don't know how much of that is true, but it seems logical. But to blame a man for not putting on five star matches every week, who is obviously working his *** off for the business is pretty unfair. That doesn't mean his matches are bad, I loved Cena vs. Michaels and Cena vs. Lashley.
I've seen a good sign last week: "True Fans respect Cena"

 

[Slyfox696]

Although I hate Hogan Sly is totally right in every way.Woah, amazing that I said that.Now back on topic.

You don't have to seem so disgusted and incredulous that you agree with me.

Cena is very predictable in the ring Sly.Most pay per view matches consist of him being beaten and the coming back miraculously.

The thing about it is, they really haven't over the last two years. In classic 1-on-1 style matches on PPV, I can think of only really the Shawn Michaels WM 23 match and maybe the Edge Summerslam match that this really happened.

I don't actually remember what happened at RR 06, so that could to. WM 22 was really a back and forth affair. Cena controlled the majority of the offense at ONS 2. Unforgiven with Edge was back and forth. Umaga at RR 07 was back and forth, with Umaga having more offense and Cena selling more, but that was really playing to both mens strengths (also why I feel they work well together). And GAB 07 saw more offense from Cena than from Lashley really. So, WM23 is the only I know for sure followed that format. Two others might have, but the others really didn't. It'll be interesting to see the style of match at Summerslam. If Orton is scheduled to go over, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the classic "babyface controls beginning, heel controls middle, babyface makes comeback" routine that the WWE loves. I think it would work for a variety of reasons, assuming Orton can carry a main-event style offense workload.

And as for Shawn Michaels carrying him in the match on Raw the only reason I can come up with is that Cena had never been in that type of match before this.

But, while that may be true (although, he has been in long matches before), it really doesn't mean he was carried. Most of the match was actually Cena working the offense part and HBK selling. Cena always contributed to the story of the match very well. I think he may have had the most brilliant line of the year when he said during the match, "He won't stay down Mike, he won't stay down!" What an absolutely amazing line, and really got the viewer at home to understand the story of the match. And, Cena, for his part, continued with that, pulling out moves he doesn't normally do, showing the frustration he rarely shows, even doing a little bit of unsportsmanlike conduct during the match. He finally gets Shawn in the STF-U, and Shawn does not tap out. And, you could almost feel Cena's frustration.

I really don't see how people can say Cena was carried in the match, except to say that "Michaels is great and Cena sucks". Just watching the match really doesn't tend to lend itself towards saying that HBK carried Cena.

 

[hbk&triple h]

You don't have to seem so disgusted and incredulous that you agree with me.

The thing about it is, they really haven't over the last two years. In classic 1-on-1 style matches on PPV, I can think of only really the Shawn Michaels WM 23 match and maybe the Edge Summerslam match that this really happened.

I don't actually remember what happened at RR 06, so that could to. WM 22 was really a back and forth affair. Cena controlled the majority of the offense at ONS 2. Unforgiven with Edge was back and forth. Umaga at RR 07 was back and forth, with Umaga having more offense and Cena selling more, but that was really playing to both mens strengths (also why I feel they work well together). And GAB 07 saw more offense from Cena than from Lashley really. So, WM23 is the only I know for sure followed that format. Two others might have, but the others really didn't. It'll be interesting to see the style of match at Summerslam. If Orton is scheduled to go over, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the classic "babyface controls beginning, heel controls middle, babyface makes comeback" routine that the WWE loves. I think it would work for a variety of reasons, assuming Orton can carry a main-event style offense workload.

But, while that may be true (although, he has been in long matches before), it really doesn't mean he was carried. Most of the match was actually Cena working the offense part and HBK selling. Cena always contributed to the story of the match very well. I think he may have had the most brilliant line of the year when he said during the match, "He won't stay down Mike, he won't stay down!" What an absolutely amazing line, and really got the viewer at home to understand the story of the match. And, Cena, for his part, continued with that, pulling out moves he doesn't normally do, showing the frustration he rarely shows, even doing a little bit of unsportsmanlike conduct during the match. He finally gets Shawn in the STF-U, and Shawn does not tap out. And, you could almost feel Cena's frustration.

I really don't see how people can say Cena was carried in the match, except to say that "Michaels is great and Cena sucks". Just watching the match really doesn't tend to lend itself towards saying that HBK carried Cena.

Not at all disgusted.Actually amazed and happy I agree with you on this.

I do agree that he put a lot into the match.I'm sure he tried his hardest and put some into the match.If not some than a lot.It was just different seeing Cena in a match like that.

True.Now watching the match again Sly no one carried anyone.

 

[Luther_Hull]

After what I've read in this thread, I've come to realise John Cena is a much better wrestler then what people on the internet give him credit for.

First of all, what is real wrestling? I noticed a comment by Big Wes saying kids dont know real wrestling. But surely, if the kids enjoy Cena's wrestling, then it is real wrestling? After all, what makes it 'real' wrestling? A german suplex? A headlock? I don't get 'real' wrestling at all.

It's also true that many people high up in the business rate Cena highly, I've heard Hulk Hogan, Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Chris Jericho and Bret Hart say Cena is the future. Remember folks, Bret Hart is one of these so-called 'real' wrestlers, so surely his opinion and the others mentioned means something?

And of course, there's one bloke that rates Cena the best of them all. and that's Vince. He's the top dog in this business, there's no one better at promoting wrestling than him, he's the number one guy, and by a hell of a lot. Surely him rating Cena means a hell of a lot, if he trusts Cena to be champion that's one hell of an endorsement.

Saying all that, I must agree that Cena's time at the top has devalued the WWE Championship, when was the last time the Championship was in the main storyline? It's become more of a sideshow than the main event it should be, and that belt, it's just disgusting.

So, as good of a wrestler Cena is, it's time his reign came to an end.

 

[Lil Wes]

After what I've read in this thread, I've come to realise John Cena is a much better wrestler then what people on the internet give him credit for

.

I have also. Cena is booked terribly. He can put on solid watchable matches as I'm sure most people have seen the HBK match on RAW (best Cena match ever IMO). It's just not consistent and I believe when your the WWE Champion you should be consistent in delivering a solid watchable match monthly (ex against Khali). Instead WWE has him overcoming all odds in a boring way monthly.

First of all, what is real wrestling? I noticed a comment by Big Wes saying kids dont know real wrestling. But surely, if the kids enjoy Cena's wrestling, then it is real wrestling? After all, what makes it 'real' wrestling? A german suplex? A headlock? I don't get 'real' wrestling at all.

Kids like Cena like they liked Hogan. He was booked as a god that could not be defeated. Most little kids don't realize wrestling is fake until they get like 8 or 9. You or nobody else can tell me that an 8 year old is going to realize that they just witnessed a classic match.

Real Wrestling?..watch HBK,Angle,Taker,Beniot,HHH,Y2J,Edge etc..all are damn fine wrestlers. I've already explained the flaws in Cena's skill. Some people like that "storytelling" type wrestling. I don't I like seeing a good solid match that doesnt consist of the same BS over and over. Some people like differently.

So, as good of a wrestler Cena is, it's time his reign came to an end.

Agreed. Too long and stale.

 

[Luther_Hull]

Kids like Cena like they liked Hogan. He was booked as a god that could not be defeated. Most little kids don't realize wrestling is fake until they get like 8 or 9. You or nobody else can tell me that an 8 year old is going to realize that they just witnessed a classic match.

Depends what you class as a classic match, if an eight year old or whoever is kept on the edge of their seat the whole match then surely it's a classic match. It doesn't matter how old the viewer is, wrestling is aimed at people of all ages.

Real Wrestling?..watch HBK,Angle,Taker,Beniot,HHH,Y2J,Edge etc..all are damn fine wrestlers. I've already explained the flaws in Cena's skill. Some people like that "storytelling" type wrestling. I don't I like seeing a good solid match that doesnt consist of the same BS over and over. Some people like differently.

Most of the wrestlers named there feature the same ending to a match if they win, especially HBK, he had his own little routine of moves he's do before the end of every match. It's what the babyfaces do, they build up the cheers and excitement for the crowd, they sense what's coming, and they cheer for it, and the atmosphere reaches fever pitch, that my friend, is real wrestling.

 

[Lil Wes]

Depends what you class as a classic match, if an eight year old or whoever is kept on the edge of their seat the whole match then surely it's a classic match. It doesn't matter how old the viewer is, wrestling is aimed at people of all ages.

Little kids would think that Cena overcoming all odds against Khali is better than Cena/HBK going a full hour in London. Why? Because Khali was build up as an unstoppable monster and The kiddies see Cena as a god after he defeated Khali. They wouldn't know any difference. Hell some probaly don't even know the great career HBK has had.

Classic match..hmmm...Both Angle/HBK was very good. I'll name that one just for starters.

Most of the wrestlers named there feature the same ending to a match if they win, especially HBK, he had his own little routine of moves he's do before the end of every match. It's what the babyfaces do, they build up the cheers and excitement for the crowd, they sense what's coming, and they cheer for it, and the atmosphere reaches fever pitch, that my friend, is real wrestling.

Once again, I've said plenty of times in this thread. It's not just the ending of his matches that are predictable its beginning to mid match to end. Cena does the same exact shit over and over and over from getting his ass kicked to brawling like an idiot to pulling out his 5 moves. HBK's matches I really can't predict what is going to happen next same with the most of the roster. I can sit there and tell you what Cena is going to do next. He's been shoved down my throat so much weekly I just know what he's going to do and say.

Your definition of "real" wrestling isn't the kind of wrestling I like. It's stale it's been happening since fucking 1980. Exactly like the tag matches. Heels beat around the dominate face. Dominate face hulks up makes the hot tag. 2nd guy cleans house to tag the dominate face again. Finisher 1-2-3. It's old. Cena's been using that same routine for god knows how long now. When your the champion your going to be in the main event. Cena has main evented almost a full year. I'm sorry but it gets stale. That's why he gets serious heat from haters. We are sick of it.

 

[Slyfox696]

Kids like Cena like they liked Hogan. He was booked as a god that could not be defeated. Most little kids don't realize wrestling is fake until they get like 8 or 9. You or nobody else can tell me that an 8 year old is going to realize that they just witnessed a classic match.

I knew when I watched Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior at the age of 6 that I had just seen a classic match. I knew when I was seven that Randy Savage vs. Ultimate Warrior was a classic match. I knew when I was seven that Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect at Summerslam was a classic match. Hell, the Bret vs. Perfect match was and still is my favorite match ever.

I'm not sure you are giving children the respect they deserve. Do they buy into the good guy beating the bad schtick? Sure, although I'd argue that we all SHOULD buy into that, but that's neither here nor there. But, Koko B. Ware bored the hell out of me in the ring. I would always fast forward through Brutus Beefcake matches (when Hogan wasn't his partner) and always skipped Warlord matches. But, I never missed a Hogan match, and wouldn't budge during a Randy Savage match. And Bret Hart was one of my three favorite wrestler (still is). Children know and appreciate good wrestling a lot more than you seem to think.

Real Wrestling?..watch HBK,Angle,Taker,Beniot,HHH,Y2J,Edge etc..all are damn fine wrestlers. I've already explained the flaws in Cena's skill. Some people like that "storytelling" type wrestling. I don't I like seeing a good solid match that doesnt consist of the same BS over and over. Some people like differently.

But...with the exception of current day Angle, ever single one of those DO tell the story in the ring. That's why they are so good. Take Chris Benoit for example at MITB at WM 21. You knew he was hurting, you knew his arm was basically shot, and yet, you could feel how much he wanted that title because he still put himself through pain and agony and took enormous high risk maneuvers. Take Bret Hart vs. Owen. If you can't tell what story was being portrayed in that match then you've probably never seen it. Angle vs. Taker HIAC. Jericho vs. HBK. All these matches told stories, and THAT'S why there were good. They weren't good because of a bunch of moves or different style of match. They were good because you could watch the match and feel the almost realistic struggle between the two men.

Like I said, with the exception of current day Angle (and in my opinion HHH), all of those guys are/were WONDERFUL at telling a story in the ring.

On a side note, that's one of the reasons that Gorilla Monsoon and Jesse Ventura/Bobby Heenan were so damn good. It's also why Jim Ross in early to mid 90s was so damn good. Because they could take what was happening in the ring, and explain the story and psychology behind the match. Fans could get great insight into that, and I believe that's one of the key elements that commentators miss today, whether because they don't understand it or because they are told to focus on other things.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Sly c'mon! Hogan vs. Warrior was a classic? In my opinion Ultimate Warrior should go down in history as one of the most, if not the most, aweful superstars in history! You, saying that Hogan is the best ever, should hate that match as I, a huge Hogan fan, does! That match was looked upon as the match that Hogan, "passed the torch," to the Warrior and we saw how far that went! If you put that on your list of classic matches, then I am going to completely discredit everything that you have said about Cena! I have come to realize that Cena is much better than I originally thought, but really, has Cena had a classic yet? He has had some damn good matches, but he hasn't been in that classic, everybody must see match. The closest one for me is his match with HBK and I, like alot of people, thought that HBK was sole reason for that match being so good. Has Cena had that great performance that the caliber or Taker, HBK, HHH, etc, etc, seem to have whenever they damn well please? I would have to say that he hasn't, but when he does put on that great performance, he will have earned alot more respect from me and alot of fans!

 

[Lil Wes]

I have come to realize that Cena is much better than I originally thought, but really, has Cena had a classic yet? He has had some damn good matches, but he hasn't been in that classic, everybody must see match. The closest one for me is his match with HBK and I, like alot of people, thought that HBK was sole reason for that match being so good.

That is the only one I can think of that is a must see of John Cena's(that isn't gimmicked). He has had a few other solid matches. On HBK being the "sole reason" that match being so good. I'm gonna have to disagree. Neither really carried the other in the match. In the first 15 or so minutes HBK was pretty much carrying it but the rest was alot of Cena. That is about the only very good match Cena has had and but to call it a "Classic" I guess one could argue.

Has Cena had that great performance that the caliber or Taker, HBK, HHH, etc, etc, seem to have whenever they damn well please?

Sly will think differently but I'll answer with a Big HELL NO! Cena is not anywhere near the caliber and shouldn't even be mentioned with the likes of Taker,HHH and HBK. He's got along way to go before I'll ever include him on that level. These awefully long title reigns are why Cena is even mentioned in there with them. In ring wise....HELL NO

I would have to say that he hasn't, but when he does put on that great performance, he will have earned alot more respect from me and alot of fans!

He doesn't put on great preformances consistenly. He goes from a good match to garbage match in the blink of an eye. Even if he was to start putting on great performances now. People will still hate him. They always will until he drops that fucking spinner trash and stop delievering repeated promos and bad matches.

 

[Slyfox696]

Sly c'mon! Hogan vs. Warrior was a classic?

How was it not? The excitement, the atmosphere, the story of two Goliaths going at it, standing toe to toe, the two mega superstars of the era. Each one trying to prove their superiority over the other, trying to prove who was the stronger. Warrior did his rope shake and Hogan kicked out. Hogan "hulked up" and missed the leg drop. It was easily a classic Wrestlemania match.

In my opinion Ultimate Warrior should go down in history as one of the most, if not the most, aweful superstars in history!

Just because he is a bad wrestler doesn't mean he can't have good matches. He has two of the best matches in Wrestlemania history, and did so in back to back years.

You, saying that Hogan is the best ever, should hate that match as I, a huge Hogan fan, does! That match was looked upon as the match that Hogan, "passed the torch," to the Warrior and we saw how far that went!

It didn't go well at all. But that really has nothing to do with what happened in that match.

If you put that on your list of classic matches, then I am going to completely discredit everything that you have said about Cena!

I fail to see how the two are related.

I have come to realize that Cena is much better than I originally thought, but really, has Cena had a classic yet?

Very rare are the matches that can be considered classics within one or two years of their creation. Classics are matches that stand the test of time. Of course, Cena hasn't really had a classic match yet, not enough time has passed.

Has Cena had that great performance that the caliber or Taker, HBK, HHH, etc, etc, seem to have whenever they damn well please?

If they can have them whenever they damn well please, how come, between the three of them, they've only had one match (maybe 2) that can be considered of extremely high caliber in the last 4 years that doesn't involve Cena?

Wrestlemania 20 main-event (which is so overrated in my book) and MAYBE Angle vs. HBK at WM 21 (I don't think so, but some do).

In the last four years, those are the only two matches between the three of them that can be considered high quality that does not involve Cena.

And, you can't compare body of work because HHH is the youngest of those three at age 38. Taker and HBK are both 42. Cena is only 30 years old. Let's see where Cena's match list is in 8 years and how it compares.

I would have to say that he hasn't, but when he does put on that great performance, he will have earned alot more respect from me and alot of fans!

No he won't. He's put on several great performances and people still bash him. He has two Match of the Year Candidates in 2007, and people don't get him the respect he deserved. Umaga at Royal Rumble and HBK on Raw.

But, of course, he got carried on Raw right? Even though no one can explain why, other than because they believe HBK is great and Cena sucks. Basically, that's the only reason I've seen to explain how HBK carried Cena.

Cena has put on plenty of good matches and a few great ones. Hell, he got a four star match out of BOBBY LASHLEY for Christ's sake. But, some people will never get him the respect he deserves.

 

[Lil Wes]

Wrestlemania 20 main-event (which is so overrated in my book) and MAYBE Angle vs. HBK at WM 21 (I don't think so, but some do).

Both were fantastic. Better than anything ive seen from Cena one on one or against multiple opponents. Both of those were classics.

No he won't. He's put on several great performances and people still bash him. He has two Match of the Year Candidates in 2007, and people don't get him the respect he deserved. Umaga at Royal Rumble and HBK on Raw.

Umaga at the Royal Rumble is extremely overated. The ending is what makes people shit themselves when they see it. Once again it was gimmicked. You go back to NYR when he went one on one with Umanga. It wasn't a show stealer or classic MOTYC. Gimmick matches with tons of spots and blood are going to be up there for MOTY look at Taker/Mankind HITC...take away those 2 huge spots that match was garbage. You can't really call a gimmick match a classic because it covers flaws in each wrestlers abilitys.

HBK/Cena on RAW is right now MOTY. I agree.

Cena has put on plenty of good matches and a few great ones. Hell, he got a four star match out of BOBBY LASHLEY for Christ's sake. But, some people will never get him the respect he deserves.

4??? No. I'd give it a 3 and thats with ease. You make it sound like Lashley is terrible. Lashley is very good when givin the shot. At the GAB both were pretty good IMO. Good solid match. I wish Cena could do it more consistenly and hopefully against RKO at SS.

 

[Slyfox696]

Both were fantastic. Better than anything ive seen from Cena one on one or against multiple opponents. Both of those were classics.

The WM 20 was nothing more than a revolving 1-on-1 match. One guy gets knocked out of the ring, the other two go at it...one of them leave the ring the same time the next guy comes in. Take away Benoit's lovable time as champion, and the match is completely overrated.

Angle/HBK is completely meh. From what I remember about it, it was incredibly spotty. I probably should watch it again though to be fair.

Umaga at the Royal Rumble is extremely overated. The ending is what makes people shit themselves when they see it.

Cena using the ropes is certainly unique (and not predictable at all ) but that's not why the match is so good. There's a lot more that goes into that match than just the ending.

You go back to NYR when he went one on one with Umanga. It wasn't a show stealer or classic MOTYC.

Well, no, but Bret and Austin wrestled each other numerous times. HBK and Hart went at it numerous times. I can't count the number of match Rock and HHH had.

Just because one match between two guys wasn't great, doesn't mean that all of them can't be great. Bret/Austin has submission match, HBK/Hart has the iron man, and Rock/HHH has the ladder match.

Gimmick matches with tons of spots and blood are going to be up there for MOTY look at Taker/Mankind HITC...take away those 2 huge spots that match was garbage. You can't really call a gimmick match a classic because it covers flaws in each wrestlers abilitys.

I completely agree. The HIAC with Taker/Mankind is completely awful. But, not all gimmick matches are good, and not all good wrestlers are successful at gimmick matches. You can't say that Cena vs. Umaga wasn't good because it was a gimmick match, unless you're willing to disqualify Rock/HHH Ironman and ladder, Bret vs. Austin submission, HBK vs. Razor ladder, HBK vs. Taker HIAC, Bret vs. Owen at Summerslam etc.

Unless you don't consider any of those matches to be classics, you really can't say that Umaga vs. Cena wasn't a classic based on gimmick match.

4??? No. I'd give it a 3 and thats with ease. You make it sound like Lashley is terrible. Lashley is very good when givin the shot. At the GAB both were pretty good IMO. Good solid match. I wish Cena could do it more consistenly and hopefully against RKO at SS.

I would probably give it a ***3/4 star match. It's pushing a 4 star. Meltzer was the one who gave it 4 stars, and unlike you and me, many people here take Meltzer's word as gospel.

And, I agree with you on Lashley's ability, I've been arguing that for a long time. But, would you not agree it's the best match Lashley has ever been in? And, it wasn't a gimmick match at all.