[Official] John Cena Thread

[Slyfox696]

Well, while I am entertained my watching a montage of individual moves being performed, I'm much more entertained by impressive moves in the context of a well-paced match. Don't ask me to define what that is. because I simply can't. I just know. I'm sure you'll make a point of that. McGuinness/Danielson at Unified entertained me, and that didn't really have any wrestling moves that I haven't seen done before and no more than one real spot.

You already know my position on that match.

But, if this match interested in you, for the reasons you state...then why wouldn't John Cena interest you? I mean, it's the exact same thing, only on a much more logical and realistic scale. Now that you mention this match, what makes that match better than the common John Cena match, if it is not for wrestling moves?

For me, the audience is usually a big part of the match as well. Eric Bischoff pointing this out in his *shivers* autobiography. Without the crowd, a match is nothing. I find the average WWE crowd shallow, as they will often chant for (here we go again) the SOS. They typically have no direction of their own. The same goes for most TNA audiences. ROH audiences will often be mixed, and they make their own decisions on who they like. Even at Unified, an event in England, a portion of the crowd can be heard yelling "let's go Dragon!".

I understand what you are saying, but great crowds don't make great matches.


Great matches make great crowds.

I'm sorry, but seeing Cena cheered beyond belief for signifying the knuckle shuffle for the 500th time just gets on my nerves. It's like a good band with a smash hit. They just try and reproduce the exact same thing they've done before and they're still cheered but those outside their fanbase just sigh with disbelief. I'm sure you'll probably tear that apart but I feel too lazy to try and tighten my argument up.

Well, if your opinion on Cena is influenced based on how other people react to him, how is that at all fair to Cena's ability?

Since nobody wants to answer this I will..This just IMO.. Bash me.

Gladly.

Triple H- Has lost a step and haven't seen much of him as of late but you can go back to his title run around 05-06 and I'd take ANY Triple H match over John Cena's..

The last good Triple H match was with Cena. Before Cena? Well...ummm...2004?

Randy Orton- Yeah he crashed a hotel room blah blah. In the ring Orton is good and puts on decent matches better than most of Cena's I'd choose Orton vs Hogan over Cena vs Khali...Orton is the better wrestler IMO and will be a good champion after SS

Wait...you'd rather choose the match with the greatest wrestler in history (Hogan) over a Khali match..and that's supposed to prove something? Haha. Orton has never consistently put on high quality matches, not at the level or consistency of Cena.

HBK- Yes he has dropped the ball since SS against Hogan. Still either way I'd choose watching HBK over John Cena. His matches dont give me the same exact thing I have seen the PPV before. HBK still consistently puts on better matches than Johnny Boy

You must not have watched many HBK PPV matches then. Because HBK is MORE guilty of using a standard universal routine in his matches than Cena is, when HBK is the face.

Shelton Benjamin- Remember I am naming better wrestlers. Benjamin is a way better wrestler than Cena. He's not just a spot monkey like Hardy. He also has great mat skills. He and HBK put on a hell of a match back in 05 I believe. Have a look and tell how Superman is better. Shelton put on great matches during his singles run and is very underated

I agree that Shelton is underrated, but his problems lie with psychology, storytelling and consistency. When he puts on a good match, he'll put on a VERY good match. When he puts on a bad match, it's a VERY bad match. Benjamin wrestles like he just started with the company. If he could ever understand the more in-depth quality of his matches, and do it consistently, then he'd be near the top. But, as of now, he's not better than Cena.

Mr Kennedy- This one you could argue... I always hear, "well Kennedy hasnt had a great match yet" blah blah blah I would still rather sit back and watch a Kennedy match vs Taker and any of his promo's over John Cena's and in my mind Kennedy is a better wrestler and could be great in the future..

Kennedy's sole claim to fame is he knows how to yell his name. That's the best thing he's ever done.

 

[Lil Wes]

The last good Triple H match was with Cena. Before Cena? Well...ummm...2004?

Uh.No if youre talking WM 22...That match sucked and bored me to tears.. it was slow and The atomosphere was about the only good thing. My fault I actually did mean 04 during his run with Evolution. In 04 during his title run I'd take any main event on PPV over John Cena's of 07..That even includes Boretista at WM 21

Wait...you'd rather choose the match with the greatest wrestler in history (Hogan) over a Khali match..and that's supposed to prove something? Haha. Orton has never consistently put on high quality matches, not at the level or consistency of Cena.

Hogan was the most overrated wrestler of all time...not the greatest.. No Orton hasnt put on "high quality matches" He's also not the WWE Champion but he has put on decent ones Orton and Edge had a match on RAW a few months back that I thought was better than any of Cena's main eventing. Given time as Champion. I think Orton will deliver well and better than Superman

You must not have watched many HBK PPV matches then. Because HBK is MORE guilty of using a standard universal routine in his matches than Cena is, when HBK is the face.

They are both guilty. But I'd rather sit and watch a whole HBK match and know the outcome before I'd watch a Cena match and know he will overcome all odds..because HBK delivers good matches that entertain me even with his superman routine..Cena bores me throughout his matches by getting beat around then pulling out his 5 moves of doom..

I agree that Shelton is underrated, but his problems lie with psychology, storytelling and consistency. When he puts on a good match, he'll put on a VERY good match. When he puts on a bad match, it's a VERY bad match. Benjamin wrestles like he just started with the company. If he could ever understand the more in-depth quality of his matches, and do it consistently, then he'd be near the top. But, as of now, he's not better than Cena.

Shelton is wrestling in the mid-card and Tagging with Haas. So I do not expect him to put on a high quality match. Main eventing against another good wrestler..He could put on a good match. John Cena also wrestles like he just started the company. He knows 5 moves and 5 phrases...

Kennedy's sole claim to fame is he knows how to yell his name. That's the best thing he's ever done.

Cena's sole claim to fame is kissing Vince's ass and Yelling "The Champ is Here"

 

[Uncle Sam]

Y'know Slyfox, I think sometimes you're just contradictory for the sake of it. Really, I do.

I can't believe you actually made a case for the Great Khali! But that's another thread. Let's see...

The consistency of Cena? That's an interesting comment. Do you admit to Cena having constantly similar matches or...?

 

[Mexican Geek]

...Kennedy's sole claim to fame is he knows how to yell his name. That's the best thing he's ever done.

Hold it.


Did you see his Royal Rumble match against Batista?? He carried Batista's ass to the extent of delivering a great match, even the crowd were turned on Kennedy, and we all saw his GREAT mat skills there...

Undertaker vs Kennedy saga? come on Sly, you know Undertaker just looks good against big guys, so he can destroy the hell out of it... WRONG! Undertaker showed why he is one of the greatest, and Kennedy showed why he WILL be one of the greatest. Besides the difference of heigh, weight and experience, Kennedy delivered in all aspects: Ring psychology?? are you kiding me?? KEnnedy and the Undertaker are probably two of the BEST storytellers in active.(John Cena is a good storyteller as well..)
This whole thing could fit better in a Kennedy thread, i know that, but clearly, you are not being objective at all man, if you blame Kennedy for yelling his name every time, why dont you blame Cena for being such a horrible comedian and a stale champion?? I mean, one month is great, two months is good, more than 3 or 4 starts to bore, but a YEAR+ of the same ??

 

[Slyfox696]

Uh.No if youre talking WM 22...That match sucked and bored me to tears.. it was slow and The atomosphere was about the only good thing. My fault I actually did mean 04 during his run with Evolution. In 04 during his title run I'd take any main event on PPV over John Cena's of 07..That even includes Boretista at WM 21

Have you even watched the WM 22 match? It's easily a 3 star affair, and I'd go about 3 and a half for it.

Hogan was the most overrated wrestler of all time...not the greatest..

So overrated that he was the spearhead of not one, but TWO wrestling booms, he is the biggest draw ever, the biggest money maker ever, one of the best babyfaces ever and one of the best heels ever.

Yes, completely overrated.

No Orton hasnt put on "high quality matches" He's also not the WWE Champion but he has put on decent ones Orton and Edge had a match on RAW a few months back that I thought was better than any of Cena's main eventing. Given time as Champion. I think Orton will deliver well and better than Superman

So, Orton can't put on good matches consistently if he's not in the main-event. Good theory.

They are both guilty. But I'd rather sit and watch a whole HBK match and know the outcome before I'd watch a Cena match and know he will overcome all odds..because HBK delivers good matches that entertain me even with his superman routine..Cena bores me throughout his matches by getting beat around then pulling out his 5 moves of doom..

This doesn't even make sense. So, you'd rather watch HBK than Cena despite the fact that you know the outcome of an HBK match, just like Cena. Despite the fact that HBK has a Superman routine, which consists of no-selling an entire match, which also consist of HBK pulling out his 5 moves of doom after getting beat up for the majority of the match.


How does any of that make sense?

Shelton is wrestling in the mid-card and Tagging with Haas. So I do not expect him to put on a high quality match. Main eventing against another good wrestler..He could put on a good match. John Cena also wrestles like he just started the company. He knows 5 moves and 5 phrases...

Shelton just recently got put back in tag action after a failed singles run.

And, while I stand beside the fact that number of moves don't make a match, let's just debunk this whole "he only knows 5 moves" nonsense right now.

Side headlock
Reverse chinlock
Punch
Kick
Clothesline
Back body drop
Top rope legdrop
Shoulder block
Hammerlock
Arm bar
Fisherman's suplex
Superplex
Side suplex
Spin-out powerbomb
5 Knuckle Shuffle
Top rope cross body block
FU
STF-U.


And those are just the moves I remember from re-watching the Wrestlemania 22 match with HHH today. That's all the moves he did just in one match. Go ahead and watch the match again. With the exception of the Superplex and the Leg Drop off the top rope, every other move is in his match with HHH.


It's time for this "knows only 5 moves" nonsense to end.

Cena's sole claim to fame is kissing Vince's ass and Yelling "The Champ is Here"

Cena kisses Vince's ass huh? What makes you say that? You have any proof or just following around like a mindless zombie, regurgitating what other Cena haters say?

Y'know Slyfox, I think sometimes you're just contradictory for the sake of it. Really, I do.

I can't believe you actually made a case for the Great Khali! But that's another thread. Let's see...

I never said he was a great wrestler. Just under appreciated.

The consistency of Cena? That's an interesting comment. Do you admit to Cena having constantly similar matches or...?

I meant that Cena consistently has good matches. He has solid matches, good matches and great matches, but very VERY rare are the occasions he's had bad matches.

Can you name me a bad Cena match? Even his matches against Khali were O, (average). Try and name me a bad Cena 1-on-1 match since he's been champion.

 

[Freedom 35]

HBK- Yes he has dropped the ball since SS against Hogan. Still either way I'd choose watching HBK over John Cena. His matches dont give me the same exact thing I have seen the PPV before. HBK still consistently puts on better matches than Johnny Boy

i misworded the question i should have said active roster because i wasnt counting him. my bad on that one

Shelton Benjamin- Remember I am naming better wrestlers. Benjamin is a way better wrestler than Cena. He's not just a spot monkey like Hardy. He also has great mat skills. He and HBK put on a hell of a match back in 05 I believe. Have a look and tell how Superman is better. Shelton put on great matches during his singles run and is very underated

shelton benjamin to me is hard to understand he put on great matches about a year ago but it seems that his match quality has gone down, being in a tag team doesnt help him hes fairly inconsistent but i think he will be great in the end

 

[Lil Wes]

Have you even watched the WM 22 match? It's easily a 3 star affair, and I'd go about 3 and a half for it.

Yes I watched it both Live on PPV and I have it on my computer and its nothing great. I'd give it only 2 stars. Boring. Neither Trips or Cena delivered in that match. Its was pushing,shoving,restholds..Snoozer

So overrated that he was the spearhead of not one, but TWO wrestling booms, he is the biggest draw ever, the biggest money maker ever, one of the best babyfaces ever and one of the best heels ever.

I said cleary that he was the most overrated WRESTLER of all time. His in ring work was terrible. His drawing abilty is the best ever. Same with money making and all that stuff you said. But in the ring Hogan was nothing even close to great. Same routine+Same moves=Boring after 3 months

Yes, completely overrated.

Very

So, Orton can't put on good matches consistently if he's not in the main-event. Good theory.

Uh Orton is in the main event at SS and I expect him to take the belt from Cena thanks to good ol backstage Hunter. He was being held back because he stays in trouble. Thats his problem and why he will be a risk at champion. The guy cannot stay out of trouble. His in ring work isn't a problem

This doesn't even make sense. So, you'd rather watch HBK than Cena despite the fact that you know the outcome of an HBK match, just like Cena. Despite the fact that HBK has a Superman routine, which consists of no-selling an entire match, which also consist of HBK pulling out his 5 moves of doom after getting beat up for the majority of the match.

I'd rather watch an HBK match because his matches are more entertaining that John Cena's. Simple as that.

Shelton just recently got put back in tag action after a failed singles run.

Shelton got put back into Tag action because He couldn't speak on the mic. He didn't fail to deliver in the ring. He gave great matches but wasn't used right.

It's time for this "knows only 5 moves" nonsense to end.

That was one match. He does the same exact routine every PPV(ex GAB) to win his matches. It takes the excitement out of the match because you know Cena will overcome all odds..

Can you name me a bad Cena match? Even his matches against Khali were O, (average). Try and name me a bad Cena 1-on-1 match since he's been champion.

Cena vs Khali each time was god awful and tough to watch..It was crazy to even put them in the same ring together. Most of the whole world knew Cena was winning anyways and when your champion this long.
It's not fun anymore. It's boring and most people want to see something new. If not they must either know nothing about wrestling and entertainment or they are 5-12 years old and Don't know any difference..Tell me how Cena's title run isn't stale?? We see and hear the same exact things we just heard or saw the week before. Holding the title for damn near a year is Boring.Enough is enough I'm sick of it. Thank god for backstage politics.

 

[Kourtney_Game]

Listen sweetheart, you should go back and read my posts earlier in this thread. It explains why Cena IS a good wrestler. Go back, read them, and if you have anything you wish to ADD (not repeat) to the conversation, I'll be more than happy to discuss is with you. The fact is John Cena is one of the best workers in the WWE, if not the best.


My apologies hun, but i didnt read every post i just joined 3 days ago and only read the first 2 pages and the last page so im just stating my view. But id have to agree with u thats why guys like hogan austin, rocky, batista, goldberg and scott steiner got by

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes I watched it both Live on PPV and I have it on my computer and its nothing great. I'd give it only 2 stars. Boring. Neither Trips or Cena delivered in that match. Its was pushing,shoving,restholds..Snoozer

It was storytelling and example of what great workrate really is.

First, you had the story of the match, the experienced veteran vs. the upcoming unorthodox brawler. Triple H was confident, cocky, assured, which eventually played a part in his demise. Cena was the confident underdog, who no one thought could win, who was clearly "outwrestled" in the opening moments of the match, but somehow managed to stand toe to toe with one of the best in the world, and find a way to win after Triple H made a mistake. And, how did Cena win? With good technical wrestling. After the setup for the Pedigree, Cena reversed it with a modifed drop toe hold and floated over into the STF-U. The unorthodox brawler, beat the experienced vet with pure wrestling. That's called story-telling.

And, the workrate was phenomenal. That was one of the hottest matches since the Attitude era. Triple H played to the crowd well, Cena played to the crowd well. Every move was dramatic, drawing the crowd more and more into the story of the match. Cena and Triple H worked that crowd very well which is why the match had a great workrate.

I said cleary that he was the most overrated WRESTLER of all time. His in ring work was terrible. His drawing abilty is the best ever. Same with money making and all that stuff you said. But in the ring Hogan was nothing even close to great. Same routine+Same moves=Boring after 3 months

*sigh*

You don't even understand what wrestler means. I've explained this so many times here, even I am getting tired of it. A good wrestler is one that entertains through great stories in the ring. You, like many others, seem to think that a great "wrestler" is one with a bunch of holds and locks and flashy moves. It's not. A great wrestler is one that puts on logical matches, that tell a story, which involve working the crowd, and doing it all within the contexts of a wrestling ring. THAT'S what a great WRESTLER is. When you understand that, you will understand why Hulk Hogan was so great. Until then, you are missing the entire point of professional wrestling.

Uh Orton is in the main event at SS and I expect him to take the belt from Cena thanks to good ol backstage Hunter. He was being held back because he stays in trouble. Thats his problem and why he will be a risk at champion. The guy cannot stay out of trouble. His in ring work isn't a problem

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we were talking about who was the better wrestler. And, in no way, has Orton ever shown that he has the capability to have a run like Cena has, in terms of high quality matches on a consistent basis.

I'd rather watch an HBK match because his matches are more entertaining that John Cena's. Simple as that.

And yet, you have no objective reason why they are more entertaining. Everything is exactly the same, with HBK no-selling worse than Cena, and yet HBK is more entertaining. That's fine, but at least try to present one objective supporting argument.

Shelton got put back into Tag action because He couldn't speak on the mic. He didn't fail to deliver in the ring. He gave great matches but wasn't used right.

Shelton got put back in a tag team because he couldn't draw heat with a can of kerosene and a blowtorch.

That was one match. He does the same exact routine every PPV(ex GAB) to win his matches. It takes the excitement out of the match because you know Cena will overcome all odds..

See, you don't even watch Cena PPV matches! You are completely ignorant on this subject because you are stating he does the same thing at every PPV to win his match. Did he do that at One Night Stand to win? Did he do that at Royal Rumble to win? Did he do that New Years Revolution to win? How about Unforgiven, did he do it there? Did he do that to win at WM 22?

No, he didn't. Quit talking about things you know nothing about. Actually watch his matches first, and then come back and have this discussion with me. Until then, don't bother.

Cena vs Khali each time was god awful and tough to watch

How would you know? You haven't watched it! You think he did the exact same routine in this match that he always does. Try watching the matches instead of basing your opinion and rating of the match solely on who is in it.

If not they must either know nothing about wrestling and entertainment or they are 5-12 years old and Don't know any difference

People think that Cena's reign is one of the greatest ever, and if not, they must either know nothing about wrestling and entertainment or they are 15-25 years old.

Works both ways friend.

Tell me how Cena's title run isn't stale??

Well, PPV business for 2007 has been better than PPV business for the same months as 2006. And 2006 PPVs did better, in terms of total and average buyrates, than 2005 did. Does that work? Does more PPV buys and increased amount of revenue prove that his title run isn't stale?

Holding the title for damn near a year is Boring.Enough is enough I'm sick of it. Thank god for backstage politics.

Holding a title for a year is the stuff of legends, and provides a HUGE rub to the next person that will beat Cena for the title and win the feud. Hell, look at the huge rub Cena gave Edge. Edge is now a legit main-event player thanks to Cena.

Why can't people appreciate greatness when they are in the middle of it? In twenty years, people will look back on Cena's reign and remember how great he truly was.

My apologies hun, but i didnt read every post i just joined 3 days ago and only read the first 2 pages and the last page so im just stating my view.

It's ok pumpkin, I wasn't meaning to insult you (I do'nt believe). Just go back and read my posts, starting somewhere around Page 40. If you have anything new to contribute, feel free to do so.

But id have to agree with u thats why guys like hogan austin, rocky, batista, goldberg and scott steiner got by

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Kourtney_Game]

Yes I watched it both Live on PPV and I have it on my computer and its nothing great. I'd give it only 2 stars. Boring. Neither Trips or Cena delivered in that match. Its was pushing,shoving,restholds..Snoozer



I said cleary that he was the most overrated WRESTLER of all time. His in ring work was terrible. His drawing abilty is the best ever. Same with money making and all that stuff you said. But in the ring Hogan was nothing even close to great. Same routine+Same moves=Boring after 3 months



Very



Uh Orton is in the main event at SS and I expect him to take the belt from Cena thanks to good ol backstage Hunter. He was being held back because he stays in trouble. Thats his problem and why he will be a risk at champion. The guy cannot stay out of trouble. His in ring work isn't a problem



I'd rather watch an HBK match because his matches are more entertaining that John Cena's. Simple as that.



Shelton got put back into Tag action because He couldn't speak on the mic. He didn't fail to deliver in the ring. He gave great matches but wasn't used right.





That was one match. He does the same exact routine every PPV(ex GAB) to win his matches. It takes the excitement out of the match because you know Cena will overcome all odds..






Cena vs Khali each time was god awful and tough to watch..It was crazy to even put them in the same ring together. Most of the whole world knew Cena was winning anyways and when your champion this long.
It's not fun anymore. It's boring and most people want to see something new. If not they must either know nothing about wrestling and entertainment or they are 5-12 years old and Don't know any difference..Tell me how Cena's title run isn't stale?? We see and hear the same exact things we just heard or saw the week before. Holding the title for damn near a year is Boring.Enough is enough I'm sick of it. Thank god for backstage politics.

U speak to my heart baby, what ur saying is so true,

and Sly, are u a cena fan, i just want to know because ur defending every little thing said about him, i agree, he can entertain, well, he used to entertain when he was a funny gangster white rapper, the gimmick wsnt bad, hes never been a good wrestler but the gimmick was ok, but its like okay, how long was austin or roaky allowed to hold the championship? certainly not that long, its because the people would have done the same thing, and to have a perfect year, i remember cena went through a whole year i think it was 06 of winning all his matches fair the only match he lost was title matches and thats only because someone cheated, He was too much of "The good guy" it sucks so badly

 

[Slyfox696]

and Sly, are u a cena fan

I am a fan of high quality wrestling and high quality people. John Cena fits into both categories. I enjoy Cena probably more than anyone else on the current roster.

i just want to know because ur defending every little thing said about him,

That's because I love to debate, and there is so many untrue things said about Cena.

but its like okay, how long was austin or roaky allowed to hold the championship?

Austin and Rock both had people they could drop the belt to who would be good draws as champion. Cena doesn't have that. Not to mention, the WWF title got ****ed out so much during the Attitude era, it had basically no prestige out at all.

to have a perfect year, i remember cena went through a whole year i think it was 06 of winning all his matches fair the only match he lost was title matches and thats only because someone cheated,

It wasn't 2006, I know that. And, it's not 2007. I think you are just making that up.

He was too much of "The good guy" it sucks so badly

Why? Why do role models, who represent how people SHOULD live their life suck so bad? Why is it that a genuinely nice guy, who plays a genuinely nice, honest, respectable character must suck? Why does everything have to be about breaking the rules, anti-authority, swearing and taking shortcuts? Why can't America embrace the hard working honest man, the icon of Americana?

What is wrong with being a good guy? It makes no sense to me.

 

[Lil Wes]

[Correct me if I'm wrong, but we were talking about who was the better wrestler. And, in no way, has Orton ever shown that he has the capability to have a run like Cena has, in terms of high quality matches on a consistent basis.

Yes we were and IMO Randy Orton is better and Orton is more consistent than Cena at putting on Matches when he isn't facing 60 year old has been's

And yet, you have no objective reason why they are more entertaining. Everything is exactly the same, with HBK no-selling worse than Cena, and yet HBK is more entertaining. That's fine, but at least try to present one objective supporting argument.

Cena no sells just as much as HBK. He fucking gets beat around all damn match long and then all the sudden he heals pulls out his 5 moves of doom. Hes no selling. HBK'S matches are more entertaining because his matches are more exciting he adds excitement with something new every now and then and can carry any opponent that ain't worth a piss(Cena WM 23 and RAW in Milan) Even though Cena did impress me that match.

Shelton got put back in a tag team because he couldn't draw heat with a can of kerosene and a blowtorch.

Well then I guess Cena should be going back to the mid card because he is either getting booed out of the arena while trying to be funny or getting cheered by a bunch of girls who like him because hes "hot" If Shelton looked as good as John Cena he would be champion today..

See, you don't even watch Cena PPV matches! You are completely ignorant on this subject because you are stating he does the same thing at every PPV to win his match. Did he do that at One Night Stand to win? Did he do that at Royal Rumble to win? Did he do that New Years Revolution to win? How about Unforgiven, did he do it there? Did he do that to win at WM 22?

You caught me. Yes when Cena is main eventing It's so shit I change the channel to a baseball game. I meant its predictable.. you know he's going to overcome the odds and that takes the fun out of it.

No, he didn't. Quit talking about things you know nothing about. Actually watch his matches first, and then come back and have this discussion with me. Until then, don't bother.

Ok after SummerSlam I won't be discussing this with you. Because when he isn't champion and having a secondary fued I won't be watching hes shitty wrestling.

People think that Cena's reign is one of the greatest ever, and if not, they must either know nothing about wrestling and entertainment or they are 15-25 years old.

I'm 18 and have been watching wrestling since i was 5 so I know plenty about wrestling and John Cena is nowhere near one of the greats IMO. No most people think this title reign is boring stale and complete Bullshit. Have a look at the poll and listen to him being booed out of the arena each week. Besides girls and kids who know nothing about wrestling..we have had that discussion awhile back..

Well, PPV business for 2007 has been better than PPV business for the same months as 2006. And 2006 PPVs did better, in terms of total and average buyrates, than 2005 did. Does that work? Does more PPV buys and increased amount of revenue prove that his title run isn't stale?

No it hasn't Backlash,Judgement Day,One Night Stand,Vengeance all bombed compared to what WWE wanted this year. Might have been better than last but it was still not even close to what they wanted..

Does getting booed out of most arena's,RAW's ratings dropping and Internet sites all over the Net constantly bashing Cena for his lack of wrestling skills, holding the title too long not prove his title run isn't stale?

Holding a title for a year is the stuff of legends, and provides a HUGE rub to the next person that will beat Cena for the title and win the feud. Hell, look at the huge rub Cena gave Edge. Edge is now a legit main-event player thanks to Cena.

Edge is a main eventer because Vince and creative finally got their heads out of their asses not because of John Cena. Edge was long due of a title run injurys hurt that.

Why can't people appreciate greatness when they are in the middle of it? In twenty years, people will look back on Cena's reign and remember how great he truly was.

When the greatness in Mr.Kennedy gets his time to shine at WM 24 then I will appreciate greatness. Cena's title reign is going to be remembered as being too long and stale and literally making people despise him.

 

[watchingandwaiting]

and Sly, are u a cena fan, i just want to know because ur defending every little thing said about him, i agree, he can entertain, well, he used to entertain when he was a funny gangster white rapper, the gimmick wsnt bad, hes never been a good wrestler but the gimmick was ok, but its like okay, how long was austin or roaky allowed to hold the championship? certainly not that long, its because the people would have done the same thing, and to have a perfect year, i remember cena went through a whole year i think it was 06 of winning all his matches fair the only match he lost was title matches and thats only because someone cheated, He was too much of "The good guy" it sucks so badly

Austin and Rock didn't hold the title for that long because they had each other, and HHH, and Mick Foley, etc etc to drop the title to. Honestly, who in the past year was ready to take the flagship belt of the WWE off Cena? HHH and HBK could have, but they were busy re-living the past until Trips got hurt and HBK said he didn't want the belt. Edge did..and look at him now. Legit main eventer. And now who else? A heel wrecker (Umaga, Khali, etc)? A relative rookie like Lashley, or Kennedy? Someone who has never consistantly stepped up like Carlito or shelton? In order to have a successful, non-predicatable main event scene, you need more than one credible main eventer...and the lack of that is not Cena's fault, but rather that of creative for not elevating anyone and the other wrestlers themselves for not stepping up into the void.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes we were and IMO Randy Orton is better and Orton is more consistent than Cena at putting on Matches when he isn't facing 60 year old has been's

How do you figure? Cena is the most consistent and reliable worker, outside of maybe Rey, in the entire WWE. Name or show me the consistency of Orton of which you speak.

Cena no sells just as much as HBK. He fucking gets beat around all damn match long and then all the sudden he heals pulls out his 5 moves of doom.

Again, you should watch the matches. Take, for instance, his match against HBK at Raw in Milan. Notice how HBK hurt Cena's shoulder, and he sells the shoulder injury THE ENTIRE MATCH. Or, in his Raw match with Benoit, when Benoit works the back of Cena, and Cena sells the back injury, even to the point where he couldn't lift Benoit up for the F-U.

Watch the matches before you make these statements.

HBK'S matches are more entertaining because his matches are more exciting he adds excitement with something new every now and then and can carry any opponent that ain't worth a piss(Cena WM 23 and RAW in Milan) Even though Cena did impress me that match.

HBK has had 4 good matches in 2 and a half years. And, half of those were with Cena. Now, who do you REALLY think was responsible for those matches being so good?

Well then I guess Cena should be going back to the mid card because he is either getting booed out of the arena while trying to be funny or getting cheered by a bunch of girls who like him because hes "hot" If Shelton looked as good as John Cena he would be champion today..

Umm, Cena pretty much gets overwhelmingly cheered. You should try fast forwarding to July 2007, and get out of June 2006. Not to mention, if half the crowd boos Cena, then that is still more heat than Benjamin got. Benjamin came out to crickets.

You caught me. Yes when Cena is main eventing It's so shit I change the channel to a baseball game. I meant its predictable.. you know he's going to overcome the odds and that takes the fun out of it.

Then your whole opinion isn't worth a damn. If you don't watch the matches, how in the hell do you pretend to know what you are talking about?

Again, watch the matches first, and quit repeating, ad nauseum, what other Cena haters say, most of which probably haven't watched his matches either.

Ok after SummerSlam I won't be discussing this with you. Because when he isn't champion and having a secondary fued I won't be watching hes shitty wrestling.

You don't watch it now. *shrugs* How do you know if it's good or not if you don't watch?

I'm 16 and have been watching wrestling since i was 5 so I know plenty about wrestling and John Cena is nowhere near one of the greats IMO. No most people think this title reign is boring stale and complete Bullshit. Have a look at the poll and listen to him being booed out of the arena each week. Besides girls and kids who know nothing about wrestling..we have had that discussion awhile back..

Well, I'm 22 and have been watching wrestling since I was 3, so I have the advantage there. You started watching during the Attitude era. I've been watching since Hulkamania.

And, he gets booed out of the arena? You really should try watching Raw every once in a while. He gets overwhelmingly cheered for the most part now. Seriously, why are you even bothering to post, when you know nothing of which you speak?

No it hasn't Backlash,Judgement Day,One Night Stand,Vengeance all bombed compared to what WWE wanted this year. Might have been better than last but it was still not even close to what they wanted..

HAHAHAHAHAHA...talk about speaking out your ass. The One Night Stand and Vengeance buy rates haven't even been released yet. How do you know they bombed?

Judgment Day did 245,000 buys, which is the most bought "B" PPV (outside of the Big Four) since last years Unforgiven.

PPV business is better than 2006, and 2006 was better than 2005.

Does getting booed out of most arena's,RAW's ratings dropping and Internet sites all over the Net constantly bashing Cena for his lack of wrestling skills, holding the title too long not prove his title run isn't stale?

He doesn't get booed out of most arenas, ratings increased in 2005 over 2006, and increased again in 2006 over 2005, and Dave Meltzer speaks well of Cena.

The first two are incorrect, and the last one is nothing more than a small percentage of the wrestling fanbase, who are going to boo the champion no matter who it is.

So, no, it doesn't prove it's stale.

Edge is a main eventer because Vince and creative finally got their heads out of their asses not because of John Cena. Edge was long due of a title run injurys hurt that.

Bull. It wasn't until Edge's feud with Cena, that Edge finally got over as a main-eventer and broke through the glass ceiling.

Cena made Edge a main-eventer.

 

[Kourtney_Game]

Austin and Rock didn't hold the title for that long because they had each other, and HHH, and Mick Foley, etc etc to drop the title to. Honestly, who in the past year was ready to take the flagship belt of the WWE off Cena? HHH and HBK could have, but they were busy re-living the past until Trips got hurt and HBK said he didn't want the belt. Edge did..and look at him now. Legit main eventer. And now who else? A heel wrecker (Umaga, Khali, etc)? A relative rookie like Lashley, or Kennedy? Someone who has never consistantly stepped up like Carlito or shelton? In order to have a successful, non-predicatable main event scene, you need more than one credible main eventer...and the lack of that is not Cena's fault, but rather that of creative for not elevating anyone and the other wrestlers themselves for not stepping up into the void.

Okay, indeed you prove a very valuable point, which is of course wrestling now day tremendously suck, honestly when compared to the attitude era, even when compared to the HHH-evoltuin..Brock/Goldberg era and thats a sad thing, guys like Angle and Jericho had thier shots at cena's title and lost cmon thats complete bull.

Angle would totally own cena, as would jericho, all of that was simply because vince was trying to make cena the top star in the industry, thats why hes getting so much heat and we all know rvd would have beat cena at one night stand but vince wanted cena to look heroic or whatever so edge had to give hin the vicotery, im so tired of wrestling now days..it seems like wwe has nothing left and thats why cena is champion.

I mean i dont even know if i have a right to complain about it because like u all have said theres no one thats really ready to step up, cena is "Star" quality no doubt about it, and thats why vince has totally given up on wresltling, at one time u had to be a good wrestler to be a champion, back when bret hart, davey boy smith, Shawn micheals taker, yokozuna and even the most overrated performer in wwe history hulk hogan was wrestling, after that, when the attitude era began, it was all about entertainment and if u can get a reaction out of the crowd, youve got talent. I will never like cena's charater, will never appreciate his so called in ring ability and will never see him as anything but an "entertainer and performer" thats all he is,

and Sly when u explain ur definetion of a "wrestler" ur simply explaining vince's idea of a wrestler

But i think there are plenty of superstars in the wwe that can make for great wwe champions, they just need to be used correctly, at one time most people looked at cena and thought this guy will never be world champion but then with wwe"s makeover and enhancing" system he has become it, and that could happen to many guys such as : Orton, Kennedy, Masters, Jeff hardy, Shelton Benjamin, ,MVP, finlay, snitsky and so on, they just have to be molded.

 

[Slyfox696]

and Sly when u explain ur definetion of a "wrestler" ur simply explaining vince's idea of a wrestler

No, I'm explaining the wrestling business's idea of a wrestler.

Anyone can do a bunch of random moves. I can go out in my backyard now and put on 27 different moves and holds. But, who's coming to watch? Who gives a damn?

Wrestling is ALL about making fans give a damn. Wrestling is just another medium of entertainment, just like movies or art or music. The best wrestlers are the ones who can entertain with high quality material, and not rely on cheap pop/heat. Wrestling has ALWAYS been about that.

It's just these days, there is such a lack of realism and such a lack of storytelling and psychology that fans are latching on to anything they see that might resemble something interesting. You have incredibly spotty workers like Rob Van Dam and Kurt Angle, and everyone thinks they are so great because they can jump high or they are former wrestlers so they must be good professional wrestlers. And, it just simply is not true.

Great wrestlers can construct a meaningful story, drawing the crowd into the match, and giving the fans something to cheer about. And, the great ones can do it without using methods that will eventually fail based upon acclimation. Hulk Hogan was great because he could run very similar matches, night after night, and STILL have the crowd eating out of his hand. Hell, the man is in his mid-50s, and can still come back, and "Hulk Up", and the crowd goes nuts. Why? Because the man knows how to tell a story in the ring. He knows how to draw a crowd into a match.

THAT'S what a great wrestler is.

 

[Lil Wes]

How do you figure? Cena is the most consistent and reliable worker, outside of maybe Rey, in the entire WWE. Name or show me the consistency of Orton of which you speak.

He's the number 1 heel on RAW..He gets more heat than any wrestler on RAW. I enjoyed him vs Dusty more than I did Cena vs Khali...Orton will have no problem as champion after his title reign if it isn't fucked up by Trips. Then we will talk about who put on better matches on PPV and was a more consistent champion..Orton hasn't had his shot yet but when he does you will see...

HBK has had 4 good matches in 2 and a half years. And, half of those were with Cena. Now, who do you REALLY think was responsible for those matches being so good?

HBK in any match RAW,PPV I don't care. I could care less if HBK has had "4 good matches in 2 and half years"I will watch HBK over Cena because I expect for HBK to deliver a half way decent match and Cena I do not...

Umm, Cena pretty much gets overwhelmingly cheered. You should try fast forwarding to July 2007, and get out of June 2006. Not to mention, if half the crowd boos Cena, then that is still more heat than Benjamin got. Benjamin came out to crickets.

Not really..during his promos the crowd is pretty silent and loses interests. Try watching some vid's of his promos this past year. You just hear the girls screaming asking them to marry him and occasional Boo's and Cheer's..thats about it.

Then your whole opinion isn't worth a damn. If you don't watch the matches, how in the hell do you pretend to know what you are talking about?

its called sarcasm...

Again, watch the matches first, and quit repeating, ad nauseum, what other Cena haters say, most of which probably haven't watched his matches either.

I'm not repeating anything. I apperantly agree with pretty much this whole forum except you and a few others when it comes to Cena. Because usually on this site and others Cena is being bashed. I can't help I got here just 3 weeks ago...

You don't watch it now. *shrugs* How do you know if it's good or not if you don't watch?

I watch and trust me I have no clue why I waste my time I see the same exact thing each time and his title reign continues to bore me..

And, he gets booed out of the arena? You really should try watching Raw every once in a while. He gets overwhelmingly cheered for the most part now. Seriously, why are you even bothering to post, when you know nothing of which you speak?

I watch RAW every week thats why I'm in the live discussions..and no he gets booed by at least 45% of crowds most being men. The girls which seem to be WWE's fanbase these days are the only ones cheering him...Hell sometimes he comes out to hardly a reaction at all. I believe that was the night he called Mr Kennedy..Mr Kelloggs crunchy nuts??? Yeah Sly thats comedy alright...

He doesn't get booed out of most arenas, ratings increased in 2005 over 2006, and increased again in 2006 over 2005, and Dave Meltzer speaks well of Cena.

Ratings are tanking as we speak..3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 thats all you see is 3.4 then this week 2.5..Those ratings suck. Wrestling isn't popular as much anymore and neither is having a Superman champion like we had in the 80's and early 90's

The first two are incorrect, and the last one is nothing more than a small percentage of the wrestling fanbase, who are going to boo the champion no matter who it is.

Edge was praised on this site..

Cena made Edge a main-eventer.

Wrong my freind. Creative made Edge a main eventer.His fued with Cena got him off to a start and there really wasn't any sense in taking the belt off of him. He was good enough to be champion from in ring skills to drawing power. So they decided to let him have a run with title.

Anyways, I really don't have time to argue of an overrated wrestler who is in the way of other good talent. I've explained why I despise Cena and I'll say it again...Long Title run,lack of wrestling skills,stale character,repeated promos and routines. Cena needs a break. Ratings are dropping. Give someone else a shot..

 

[watchingandwaiting]

Angle would totally own cena, as would jericho, all of that was simply because vince was trying to make cena the top star in the industry, thats why hes getting so much heat and we all know rvd would have beat cena at one night stand but vince wanted cena to look heroic or whatever so edge had to give hin the vicotery, im so tired of wrestling now days..it seems like wwe has nothing left and thats why cena is champion.

Before I respond, let me just be up front and say that I really only started watching WWE again at the Raw homecoming to USA, so I can only go by what I've read and Youtubed for Cena's feuds with Jericho and Angle, so I can't really talk about match quality, but hopefully at least my facts are right. If not, I'm sure someone will let me know. With the Jericho feud, my understanding is that his (Jericho's) retirement was well known in advance of it happening. If that was the case, then it would make sense for a departing huge star (Jericho) to put over an up and coming star (Cena). With Angle, I agree that he could have taken over for Cena as champ...but instead he was used to headline Smackdown, so even though Cena came out ahead on the feud, I don't think its a case of his "being fed to Cena". With RVD, while obviously I don't know what the original plans were, I think that Edge helping out RVD at ONS would have been counteracted by RVD having a long and successful title reign. So while those 3 would/did make viable alternatives for title runs, there were logical reasons for all 3 of them to eventually fall to Cena. That same can not be said, however, of all the challengers that Cena has faced recently, with the possible exception of Bobby Lashley (and even that is a stretch).

 

[Slyfox696]

He's the number 1 heel on RAW..He gets more heat than any wrestler on RAW. I enjoyed him vs Dusty more than I did Cena vs Khali...Orton will have no problem as champion after his title reign if it isn't fucked up by Trips. Then we will talk about who put on better matches on PPV and was a more consistent champion..Orton hasn't had his shot yet but when he does you will see...

Well, we'll see. I hope he does. I want an entertaining champ as much as you do. I'm just smart enough to realize and see through the B.S. and know that we have an entertaining champ right now.

HBK in any match RAW,PPV I don't care. I could care less if HBK has had "4 good matches in 2 and half years"I will watch HBK over Cena because I expect for HBK to deliver a half way decent match and Cena I do not...

That's probably because you don't ever watch a Cena match. So, again, why do you comment?

Not really..during his promos the crowd is pretty silent and loses interests. Try watching some vid's of his promos this past year. You just hear the girls screaming asking them to marry him and occasional Boo's and Cheer's..thats about it.

And, when he comes out to the ring for his matches, he is overwhelmingly cheered. Try watching some of his matches. And, promos aren't always about getting fans to laugh. Promos are about building the story of the feud. They don't have to get great crowd reaction.

Its called sarcasm...

No, I really don't think it is. Because you clearly don't watch Cena matches, or you wouldn't be spouting off the ridiculousness that you have been.

I'm not repeating anything. I apperantly agree with pretty much this whole forum except you and a few others when it comes to Cena. Because usually on this site and others Cena is being bashed. I can't help I got here just 3 weeks ago...

And, on two other forums I post on, the majority of the posters praise Cena and his work. My point is for you to try whipping up some of your own ideas, and not just repeating what everyone else says.

And, the best way for you to do this, is to start by actually watching the matches.

I watch and trust me I have no clue why I waste my time I see the same exact thing each time and his title reign continues to bore me..

The only thing similar about Cena's matches is the ending. And that has no bearing on the quality of the match.

If you truly do watch, then you will know this.

I watch RAW every week thats why I'm in the live discussions..and no he gets booed by at least 45% of crowds most being men. The girls which seem to be WWE's fanbase these days are the only ones cheering him...Hell sometimes he comes out to hardly a reaction at all. I believe that was the night he called Mr Kennedy..Mr Kelloggs crunchy nuts??? Yeah Sly thats comedy alright...

45% of the crowd? Are you insane? That hasn't happened since the end of his feud with HBK. Everyone else he's been clearly the fan favorite. Seriously.

And Mr. Kellogg crunchy nuts is as great as the DX "humor" we were subjected to last summer.

Ratings are tanking as we speak..3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 3.4 thats all you see is 3.4 then this week 2.5..Those ratings suck. Wrestling isn't popular as much anymore and neither is having a Superman champion like we had in the 80's and early 90's

First off, your ratings are wrong. Starting with June 4th, ratings went:

3.8
3.8
4.2
3.8 <---Chris Benoit kills family and self.
3.7
3.4
3.4
3.4
2.5

Ratings were fine and consistent. The only time ratings started to go down was after the whole Chris Benoit thing. And, if you don't think Benoit's double-murder suicide plays a major part in the ratings, you are dead wrong.

Ratings were fine and constant under the last 2+ years of Cena's reign. This drop in ratings has nothing to do with Cena, and any attempt to connect it as so, is ridiculous.

Furthermore, ratings in 2003 and 2004 were abysmal, and Cena's time on top has actually pulled them up. So, there is no connection with Cena and lower ratings. None.

Edge was praised on this site..

Edge's reigned only lasted 2 months. Triple H was crucified back when he was champion. Benoit was bashed as champion. Jericho was bashed as champion. Brock was bashed as champion. Rock got booed as champion against Brock.

The IWC generally hates those who are successful.

Wrong my freind. Creative made Edge a main eventer.His fued with Cena got him off to a start and there really wasn't any sense in taking the belt off of him. He was good enough to be champion from in ring skills to drawing power. So they decided to let him have a run with title.

Creative tried for years to get him over as a main-eventer and failed. It wasn't until his feud with Cena that got him over.

Anyways, I really don't have time to argue of an overrated wrestler who is in the way of other good talent. I've explained why I despise Cena and I'll say it again...Long Title run,lack of wrestling skills,stale character,repeated promos and routines. Cena needs a break. Ratings are dropping. Give someone else a shot..

Cena is one of the best talents on the roster, one of the best workers on the roster, and ratings were steady until Benoit. And, other people HAVE had their shots. Remember, there are 3 World titles. No one else seems to be making any strong waves.

 

[Lil Wes]

HAHAHAHAHAHA...talk about speaking out your ass. The One Night Stand and Vengeance buy rates haven't even been released yet. How do you know they bombed?

Judgment Day did 245,000 buys, which is the most bought "B" PPV (outside of the Big Four) since last years Unforgiven.

PPV business is better than 2006, and 2006 was better than 2005.

Sly I believe you told me I "was speaking out of my ass" when I said PPV buyrates were on the decline so heres something for you..

Following WrestleMania, WWE’s Backlash pay-per-view only did 194,000 buys (down from last year’s 213,000). The company then rebounded with Judgment Day which did 242,000 buys which was up from the previous year’s 238,000 buys. This year’s edition of One Night Stand tanked only doing 186,000 buys which was down from the previous year’s 294,000. Vengeance dropped by 96,000 buys from last year doing 243,000 buys

From WZ.com

Like I said One Night Stand and Vengeance both bombed compared to what WWE wanted. It was even reported here and other sites that Vince was disapointed in PPV Buyrates. Thats why I told you that earlier. Also Judgement Day did 242,000 not 245,000 buys. Even though it is up from last year neither Vengeance,One Night Stand or Backlash was. What that has to do with Cena Who Knows?? WWE has been putting on some terrible PPV'S as of late and not very good main events with Cena vs Khali and countinuesly overcoming all odds against 5 men. But I believe its time for a change not only were The PPV'S tanking but so is RAW at the moment..

 

[Slyfox696]

Sly I believe you told me I "was speaking out of my ass" when I said PPV buyrates were on the decline so heres something for you..

From WZ.com

Like I said One Night Stand and Vengeance both bombed compared to what WWE wanted. It was even reported here and other sites that Vince was disapointed in PPV Buyrates. Thats why I told you that earlier. Also Judgement Day did 242,000 not 245,000 buys. Even though it is up from last year neither Vengeance,One Night Stand or Backlash was. What that has to do with Cena Who Knows?? WWE has been putting on some terrible PPV'S as of late and not very good main events with Cena vs Khali and countinuesly overcoming all odds against 5 men. But I believe its time for a change not only were The PPV'S tanking but so is RAW at the moment..

Those numbers were just released today. You had no idea what the buyrates were when you posted that. You were talking out your ass.

Vengeance actually was a very good buyrate, albeit down from last year's DX reunion party. And, One Night Stand was poorly promoted. It had card changes up until the last day, pudding matches, Kane vs. Henry, the main-event was one of the few main-events in which there was no suspense, and the feud that the show was based on was Lashley vs. McMahon...again.

If anything, it shows that Lashley vs. McMahon was not a good feud, not that Cena isn't drawing. I wonder what the Great American Bash drew, because that was a damn good PPV card, with pretty good buildup.

 

[Lil Wes]

Those numbers were just released today. You had no idea what the buyrates were when you posted that. You were talking out your ass.

As I just said it was reported both here and other sites that Vince wasn't happy with the buyrates of Vengeance and One Night Stand. So no I wasn't speaking out of my ass.

Vengeance actually was a very good buyrate, albeit down from last year's DX reunion party. And, One Night Stand was poorly promoted. It had card changes up until the last day, pudding matches, Kane vs. Henry, the main-event was one of the few main-events in which there was no suspense, and the feud that the show was based on was Lashley vs. McMahon...again.

Agreed on One night stand. That PPV had bombed written all over it. But once again we had to see Cena overcome the odds even after he already defeated Khali at JD. So we had to see Cena vs Khali...again as well. That match sucked the first time and people lost interest and didn't care and yet they do it again...Shit fueds like this one is what gets these PPV buyrates so low...

If anything, it shows that Lashley vs. McMahon was not a good feud, not that Cena isn't drawing. I wonder what the Great American Bash drew, because that was a damn good PPV card, with pretty good buildup.

And it shows Khali vs Cena was? How do you figure? as far as I know that build up was shitty. Khali came out of nowhere and took out THREE contenders so they just throw him to Cena to make Cena look invinceable cause of Khali's monsterous size...*yawn*. The storyline just had Khali beating the hell out of Cena so he magically over come the odds at the both PPV'S that storyline is predictable Vince's wasnt you had Lashley winning in a squash and then Vince keeps the title because he's the boss. I wasn't expecting that I don't know about you. It wasn't just Lashley vs Vince. Lashley vs Vince had a great build up from WM 23 even though it was dragged on to long.

 

[Slyfox696]

As I just said it was reported both here and other sites that Vince wasn't happy with the buyrates of Vengeance and One Night Stand. So no I wasn't speaking out of my ass.

And, as I just said, you had no idea what the buyrates were.

Agreed on One night stand. That PPV had bombed written all over it. But once again we had to see Cena overcome the odds even after he already defeated Khali at JD. So we had to see Cena vs Khali...again as well. That match sucked the first time and people lost interest and didn't care and yet they do it again...Shit fueds like this one is what gets these PPV buyrates so low...

Lashley vs. McMahon was the main feud for this PPV. It didn't main-event, but there was a whole hell of a lot more time spent on that feud than Cena vs. Khali. There were a couple of Raws where Cena was only for 5 minutes during the buildup.

And it shows Khali vs Cena was? How do you figure? as far as I know that build up was shitty and just had Khali beating the hell out of Cena so he magically over come the odds at the both PPV'S that storyline is predictable Vince's wasnt you had Lashley winning in a squash and then Vince keeps the title because he's the boss. I wasn't expecting that I don't know about you. It wasn't just Lashley vs Vince. Lashley vs Vince had a great build up from WM 23 even though it was dragged on to long.

Lashley vs. McMahon was the main feud going into this PPV. Hell, Cena vs. Khali garnered 242,000 buys just two weeks previous at Judgment Day, which was an increase from the previous year, and the best buyrate a "B" PPV had gotten since Unforgiven.

Poorly built card (which was almost identical to Judgment Day), two weeks between PPVs, and numerous changes the day of the show, not to mention that Lashley vs. McMahon was the big story of the PPV, all work together to explain the poor buyrate.

 

[Lil Wes]

And, as I just said, you had no idea what the buyrates were.

No I didn't but here and other places said Vince was Very dissapointed in buyrates so that should tell you something was up with bad buyrates

Lashley vs. McMahon was the main feud for this PPV. It didn't main-event, but there was a whole hell of a lot more time spent on that feud than Cena vs. Khali. There were a couple of Raws where Cena was only for 5 minutes during the buildup.

Exactly Khali vs Cena's build up was terrible. They didn't put enough time into it and therefore it tanked and nobody cared also at One Night Stand they even added an extreme rules stipulation yet again nobody cared because they feud wasn't interesting and very predictable. It was the main event of the PPV maybe not the main storyline but the main event and it was piss poor. So you can't really just blame Lashley/Vince

Lashley vs. McMahon was the main feud going into this PPV. Hell, Cena vs. Khali garnered 242,000 buys just two weeks previous at Judgment Day, which was an increase from the previous year, and the best buyrate a "B" PPV had gotten since Unforgiven.

Cena also took on 3 of the best superstars in WWE at Backlash in a well built up feud and you know what?? It Tanked same with Vengeance 4 of the best superstars on the roster yet it was predictable just like Backlash and it as well...tanked WWE wanted more and they didn't get it

Poorly built card (which was almost identical to Judgment Day), two weeks between PPVs, and numerous changes the day of the show, not to mention that Lashley vs. McMahon was the big story of the PPV, all work together to explain the poor buyrate.

Agreed^..but you can't rule out Cena vs Khali had anything to do with it especially when it's suppose to be Cena slaying a undefeated giant in a David vs Goliath type way. It was predictable...when Khali came out that night I thought to myself."well i guess Cena overcomes all odds at Judgement Day" and he did boring feud,bad build up, bad matches,=bad buyrate..

 

[Slyfox696]

No I didn't but here and other places said Vince was Very dissapointed in buyrates so that should tell you something was up with bad buyrates

What if Vince wanted 400,000 buys, and One Night Stand only did 300,000 buys. Wouldn't he be disappointed then as well?

Exactly Khali vs Cena's build up was terrible. They didn't put enough time into it and therefore it tanked and nobody cared also at One Night Stand they even added an extreme rules stipulation yet again nobody cared because they feud wasn't interesting and very predictable. It was the main event of the PPV maybe not the main storyline but the main event and it was piss poor. So you can't really just blame Lashley/Vince

No, I blame a lot of factors, not the least of which is the fact it was the same card, with the same championship matches, just two weeks after Judgment Day.

But, that has nothing to do with Cena, now does it?