[Official] John Cena Thread

[Mr.Kennedy]

lol, agree with the stunner Authentic! and basically everything....I wouldn't mind seeing lashley with it...but why give it to two guys that really don't need it as it is when kennedy....orton....people that actually would make decent storylines because they are good on the mic and are actually good wrestlers deserve it!

 

[Slyfox696]

his finisher name is ******ed it's like a 14yo wrestling F-U wow ok Austin should flip him off and say no F-U then boom hit him with a stunner haha.

History lesson.

Cena's move is the F-U because when he was feuding with Brock Lesnar, he came up with a move to sort of mock Brock...and since Lesnar's finisher was the F-5, Cena called his the F-U. That's why it is named that way.

It's not cool to keep others down to keep someone average up.

Who do you feel is deserving of the title, and is being kept down?

How about when Cena was on the mic and was talking about Kennedy he was all Mrrrr.Crapy Pants wow ok nice one and for him to keep going with the Mr.Camel toe that was weak.

How about this Monday when he and LASHLEY (of all people), cut one of the greatest promos of the year? It was intense, it showed charisma, it had the fans into it, it had me into it for sure, and it did a GREAT job building to the PPV. And Cena was magnificent in it.

How come we don't want to talk about that?

 

[Mad Metal]

Good to see you again Slyfox. Even though I didn't watch Raw this Monday, I heard the promo was good. I truly think some people needs to realize where the problems are with Cena. If people don't like how he is being booked, talk to the WWE creative team, John Cena just takes orders. If you don't like his character, talk to Stephanie McMahon who originally gave him the character back in late 2002 when he joined Bull Buchanan aka B2.

If you ask me, Cena is under rated as a performer and as a professional wrestler. I seen so many "bad" wrestlers and Cena doesn't fall in that category IMO. Trust me, if the WWE creative and booking would book Cena differently and he would have an ordinary entrance song and attire, alot of the "heat' from the fans would be shed off.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Suprisingly enough, and I really hate to say this, the promo that Cena cut with Lashley on Raw was a very good promo. Even Lashley done a good job in this promo and a large part of that was due to Cena, but that gives me hope that Lashley may start to develop the mic skills that he needs. However, I still can't stand John Cena in anyway, shape, or form.

Slyfox! To respond to something that you mentioned in an earlier post. The match that Cena and Michaels had on Raw was outstanding. Cena did do an amazing job in that match and, although he did help to put Michaels over in that match, I can't say that Cena made Michaels looks as good has he has in years. You have to remember, Shawn Michaels is the showstopper, the main event, the headliner, and the icon. If he wants to have a good match, the man is going to because he really is that good. The match that Michaels and Benjamin had on Raw during the World title tournament was probably the best match that I have ever seen on the show.

There is a difference in Michaels and Cena. Michaels can have a great match with anyone and really do a good job of pulling the fans in to cheer for him. Cena does a good job of bringing the fans in, but the action isn't always top notch. Michaels is great and, well, Cena has a long way to go (a very long way) until he is on that level, if he ever even makes it to that level!

 

[tdo2g]

any one hu likes cena can S*UCK IT!!!! how could any one like sum1 who only has 4 moves that aboustly SUCK!!! who gets carried thru matchs!!! who is only wwe champion because little kids buy his murdisce who also has the worst finishing move of all time. He is a lame speaker , remember when he tried to mock kennedy calling him mr cameltoe? That was the lamest thing i have ever heard Kennedy has twic the talent and skill as cena and should be wwe champ along with just about evryone else in the roster.

 

[Slyfox696]

Good to see you again Slyfox.

Hey, I was wondering what happened to you. Haven't seen you..umm...around until now. Is this your permanent home now? Maybe now I'll have a reason to visit the TNA forums a little more often...

Slyfox! To respond to something that you mentioned in an earlier post. The match that Cena and Michaels had on Raw was outstanding. Cena did do an amazing job in that match and, although he did help to put Michaels over in that match, I can't say that Cena made Michaels looks as good has he has in years. You have to remember, Shawn Michaels is the showstopper, the main event, the headliner, and the icon. If he wants to have a good match, the man is going to because he really is that good.

The difference is that it wasn't until his match against Cena that Michaels looked that good. So, either way, it took Cena to bring back an interested and entertaining Michaels again.

There is a difference in Michaels and Cena. Michaels can have a great match with anyone and really do a good job of pulling the fans in to cheer for him. Cena does a good job of bringing the fans in, but the action isn't always top notch.

NAme one person since he was Champion that Cena has not had at least one quality match with.

any one hu likes cena can S*UCK IT!!!! how could any one like sum1 who only has 4 moves that aboustly SUCK!!! who gets carried thru matchs!!! who is only wwe champion because little kids buy his murdisce who also has the worst finishing move of all time. He is a lame speaker , remember when he tried to mock kennedy calling him mr cameltoe? That was the lamest thing i have ever heard Kennedy has twic the talent and skill as cena and should be wwe champ along with just about evryone else in the roster.

Umm, welcome to about 40 pages ago...

 

[spencerjwilson]

In my personal opinion, while I'll never be part of a Cena fan club, I think the guy deserves better than the rep he gets. People are always talking about how awful he is and whatnot, but why? He has four moves? Now despite the fact that everyone knows that's a gross overexaggeration, it is also true that in no way is Cena a Man of 1,000 holds either. But when you think about it, how many top WWE guys have really had that many moves? Hogan? Undertaker? Rock? Austin? The truth of the matter is there's a reason they say new WWE signees need to learn to work "WWE style" before they can make it. That's why so many top guys aren't mat technicians, like Cena, Hogan, etc... because they are encouraged to do more of a punch-kick style because it works better for what the WWE wants. Watch any WWE show and you'll see every match looks exactly the same, from the punch-kick beginning to the heel locking the face in wear down hold after wear down hold, to finally the face "overcoming the odds" and pulling it out or the heel stopping the comeback at its peak and finishing the face. Heck, I bet just like me you all can tell exactly when the commercial break is coming based solely on the way the action in the ring is going just as the heel winds up thrown to the outside. My point of this rant here is Cena is no different than Hogan, Rock, or Austin, and everyone only hates him because of three reasons. A) He's had the title for a crazy long time, and today's fan isn't used to that, B) Today's fan is more likely to cheer the heel than the face, because we're crazy non-conformists or something like that, and C) because Cena-hating has turned into an all-out form of social deviance, and frankly, all the cool kids are doin' it.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Let me clairify a few things. I didn't just recently start hating Cena, I have hated Cena since the first time he came out on Smackdown and started rapping. I don't hate him because everyone else does, I hate him because, well, I just don't like him.

The only thing that I respect Cena for, is the fact that he hasn't missed a show in 3 years time. That is comendable. He has a really good work ethic and he may be a good role model for all of the kids who seem to love him. Other than that, I can't stand a match with him in it. I hate to hear his music, I hate to see his entrance, and I hate to hear him talk.

Ever since April of 2005, Cena has been tormenting me and the WWE didn't help me out at all when they brought him to Raw! I hate John Cena and I never will stop hating him. Why can't he go on a vacation for about a year?

 

[duncanblue]

Great response, and nice flame-baiting I might add. I do wish you would take the time to actually read through this thread where I have said numerous times my age, occupation, and so on. But, I guess it's true what they say. "Ignorance is bliss". I mean, what better argument is there against Cena than to say all his fans must be 12?


Sorry if I disappointed you Prax

Would I say it repeatedly if I wasn't?
Apparently not, lol.

Well, by God, damn that Cena! I mean, he's the only person, particularly with the face disposition, to get punched and then punch back.
Not sayin he is, just counterpointing you saying he is a great seller.

My guess is that it is because you don't know near as much about wrestling as John Cena.
John Cena knows about wrestling? Other than the suplex, Im gonna have to disagrre with you ha ha

The FU is not a true Firemans Carry. It's more of a slam than a true one.
.......ok....lol

I'd take the 5 Knuckle Shuffle over a Rolling Thunder or a 619 any day of the week.
...are you serious?

Because? Do you have any actual reason for this, hopefully one that attempts to counter my points in the post you originally responded with your flame-baiting comment?


John Cena does not do the top rope legdrop every night. Only in certain matches, the majority of which are PPV matches.
Yep you are totally right, the legdrop totally differentiates his PPV matches from the rest of the bunch ha ha

Of course. Just like I know what is going to happen in every Hogan match, every Austin match, every Rock match, every HBK match, every Bret Hart match, every Lashley match, every Chris Benoit match...etc, etc, etc.
Ummm......riiiight.

The majority of the WWE fans disagree with you.
Wrong. The majority of children and women WWE fans disagree with me. The majority of WRESTLING fans agree.

Damn straight. They both are awesome.

No, they both can do anything, but in the end, John Cena would obviously win, if it was up to McMahon of course. Do you know anything, I mean really? Give me infractions all you want, I dont care, but there is justice to be served here heh heh

Oh yeah and for another spamming point....my replies are inside the quote, sorry for the misunderstanding but I thought you might miss them....again sorry about that Im relatively new to this forum.

 

[BrooklynBuc]

That guy, tdo2g, I guess someone doesn't own a dictionary. Murdisce? I know what he's trying to say, but damn! Someone butchered that word!

The Cena / Lashley exchange was awesome. Lashley is playing up the aggressive, silent-but-deadly tweener, while Cena is the confident, respectable, never-say-die champion. It reminds me of Bret Hart (as a face) vs. The Undertaker (when he was in purple and black) when they wrestled at the Royal Rumble. (not as much wrestling ability but still the comparison is there). Cena seems to be better when he's facing another face. For example, his best match is the RVD-Cena match from One Night Stand, and his match with Shawn Michaels on RAW came close. He won his belt back from Edge technically playing the heel to a pro-Edge Canadian crowd in Toronto, and it seemed like when I watched the match on Youtube, it sounded like he got a few cheers at the end, probably more out of respect. I know the market won't be as high when he's a heel, but maybe it is a consideration.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not sayin he is, just counterpointing you saying he is a great seller.

So, your counterpoint to my comment that he is a great seller is to show how he does the exact same thing every other wrestler does? How does that work exactly?

John Cena knows about wrestling? Other than the suplex, Im gonna have to disagrre with you ha ha

You don't even know the name of that suplex. I feel safe when I say that Cena probably knows more about wrestling than you.

"I'd take the 5 Knuckle Shuffle over a Rolling Thunder or a 619 any day of the week."
...are you serious?

As a heart attack. Rolling Thunder and 619 are piss poor wrestling moves because they aren't believable. If it was a real fight, Cena could punch someone in the face and it would hurt. Now, if they guy moved out of the way, then Cena would react accordingly. Rolling Thunder has RVD literally rolling and doing an in-air flip. How is that realistic? 619 is the rare time you will ever see anyone hanging out on the second rope. I mean honestly, how often do you see a wrestler just hanging out on the second rope...except at the end of a Rey Mysterio match.

Yep you are totally right, the legdrop totally differentiates his PPV matches from the rest of the bunch ha ha

Not sure what your point is here.

"Of course. Just like I know what is going to happen in every Hogan match, every Austin match, every Rock match, every HBK match, every Bret Hart match, every Lashley match, every Chris Benoit match...etc, etc, etc."
Ummm......riiiight.

You don't? You can't tell what was going to happen in every Hogan match? In every Austin match? In every HBK match?

Geez, they all used the same routines night in and night out. It was the story they told which is what is important. The same goes for Cena.

Wrong. The majority of children and women WWE fans disagree with me. The majority of WRESTLING fans agree.

Wrong. John Cena is generally in the highest rated segments on Raw. He moves more merchandise and helps boost PPV buyrates. The majority of WWE fans disagree with you.

No, they both can do anything, but in the end, John Cena would obviously win, if it was up to McMahon of course. Do you know anything, I mean really? Give me infractions all you want, I dont care, but there is justice to be served here heh heh

I know plenty. I know that John Cena is a good wrestler. I know that he makes the WWE a LOT of money. I know that he is a great public figure for the WWE. I know that he is a nice guy. I know that he has had at least one good match with every wrestler he's faced since he became champion. I know that he can work matches against little guys or big guys.

I know plenty.

The Cena / Lashley exchange was awesome. Lashley is playing up the aggressive, silent-but-deadly tweener, while Cena is the confident, respectable, never-say-die champion.

And actually, that is partly what made the promo so good. Finally, John Cena is evolving to the point where he KNOWS he's that damn good (kayfabe speaking) and instead of being unsure if he can win, and wanting to prove he can win, he is speaking down to Bobby Lashley, telling Lashley that he has no chance of beating Cena. It was more cocky, more confident...and an evolution of sorts for Cena. The same went for his facial expressions at the end during the brawl. Cena was cocky, confident and had a smirk on his face. Lashley was the hungry "eye of the tiger" challenger.

That promo was SO well done. And, it also sets up Cena to run the offensive portion of the match at GAB, with him probably doing a little heel work during the match as well.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Slyfox! For once, I have to agree with you! Everything that you said about Cena is true, but you have to realize my frustrations! Cena can entertain the crowd and he has had at least one good match with everyone he has faced. BUT! Cena is getting "old" to the majority of the fans.

We all know what to expect from him. We all know what his next move is going to be. His character is really the biggest problem and the problem with it is, it sucks. Well, not so much that his character sucks, but its old!

You said Cena was nice. I have to agree with you. I met Cena during the WWE's last live event here in Lexington Ky. He went to a meet and greet at a local Kroger store. He was very nice and very respectable.

He is getting old to everyone, but I don't like him because, I just don't. I don't like his move set and I don't like his character. I never will.

And I'm expecting Cena and Lashley's match to be a good one!

 

[duncanblue]

Well, hmm. So you think the 5 knuckle shuffle is believable? He stands directly over the guy and takes nearly 30 seconds just to deliver the move.....believable? I think not. And you back it up by saying that if a person got up, Cena would act accordingly. Well, I guess we will never know, considering no one ever gets up. And about the 619 statement, that move actually takes some skill, and is fun to watch, a lot funner than watching a guy fall on a guys face with his fist. I respect your opinion, but I just dont see how you come up with it. OO yeah, one more thing. Majority of fans disagree with me? Look at your poll, that tells you something. Ratings are higher? Yes, they are. Because they want to see him lose the title. Sells merchandise? Yes I agree again. But have you seen how many children and women are actually in the crowd? Cmon man, you gotta admit the guy does have his faults. And to your credit, I have seen one match where Edge got up before the shuffle was delivered. Only one ive seen tho, and ive been watching for years. Sorry if I missed one. So....you think Cena knows more about wrestling than me because I dont know the name of one suplex, Im sorry and no offense intended, but that is a very biased statement. Im looking forward to your response.

 

[duncanblue]

How about this Monday when he and LASHLEY (of all people), cut one of the greatest promos of the year? It was intense, it showed charisma, it had the fans into it, it had me into it for sure, and it did a GREAT job building to the PPV. And Cena was magnificent in it.

How come we don't want to talk about that?[/QUOTE]

Yes, why not talk about one of the only good things he's done this year, yep, the promo was good. It was a promo man. Dont get worked up over it, hopefully the match will be just as good, but Im doubting Lashleys ability to carry Cena to the extent all his other opponents have.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox! For once, I have to agree with you! Everything that you said about Cena is true, but you have to realize my frustrations! Cena can entertain the crowd and he has had at least one good match with everyone he has faced. BUT! Cena is getting "old" to the majority of the fans.

And that's fine. I can handle that opinion. I don't feel the same way, and I still enjoy Cena, but I can respect people's opinions that they think he is stale and needs a change.

My point all along is that people should respect how good of a worker the guy really is.

Well, hmm. So you think the 5 knuckle shuffle is believable? He stands directly over the guy and takes nearly 30 seconds just to deliver the move.....believable? I think not. And you back it up by saying that if a person got up, Cena would act accordingly. Well, I guess we will never know, considering no one ever gets up.

The five knuckle shuffle is as believable as any move in professional wrestling. Flair's knee drop, Hogan's leg drop, Rock's People's Elbow, HBK's flying elbow drop, etc. etc. etc.

And about the 619 statement, that move actually takes some skill, and is fun to watch, a lot funner than watching a guy fall on a guys face with his fist.

I'll tell you what. I'll fall on your face, punching you with my fist, and you try to swing around the ropes and try and kick me in the face, at lets see which one hurts more. I bet I can hit you a lot more times than you can hit me.

I respect your opinion, but I just dont see how you come up with it.

Nearly 2 decades of watching wrestling.

OO yeah, one more thing. Majority of fans disagree with me? Look at your poll, that tells you something.

It tells me that on an internet message board, with most of the votes cast before someone stuck up for Cena on a consistent basis, more people dislike Cena than like him. But, go by the numbers the WWE goes by. What does that tell you?

Ratings are higher? Yes, they are. Because they want to see him lose the title.

Then he's still a draw. *shrugs*

Sells merchandise? Yes I agree again. But have you seen how many children and women are actually in the crowd?

I'm sorry. I didn't realize there was a sign on the WWE clubhouse door that read "No girls allowed".

Cmon man, you gotta admit the guy does have his faults.

Sure he does. Everyone does. But, his faults are generally covered up by the areas he excels in.

So....you think Cena knows more about wrestling than me because I dont know the name of one suplex, Im sorry and no offense intended, but that is a very biased statement. Im looking forward to your response.

No, I think Cena knows more about wrestling than you, because he's been in the business for 7 years, and has been working for the biggest and best wrestling company for 7 years. I believe he knows more than you because he's been the champion of the biggest company in the world for 2 and a half years, and has been working with some of the greatest talent throughout. I think Cena knows more than you because I can turn WWE on every Monday night and watch Cena. I don't think I've ever seen you on TV.

That's why I think Cena knows more about professional wrestling than you do.

 

[watchingandwaiting]

Yes, why not talk about one of the only good things he's done this year, yep, the promo was good. It was a promo man. Dont get worked up over it, hopefully the match will be just as good, but Im doubting Lashleys ability to carry Cena to the extent all his other opponents have.

I don't really think this is the year to claim that Cena has been carried by all his opponents. So far he's had 3 feuds (not counting Lashley of course). Khali, HBK, and Umaga. I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that Khali is not going to be carrying anyone to a great match/feud any time soon. By the same token, he's so hard to work with that even Undertaker couldn't get a decent program with him. You know its bad when your blow-off match needs to be done with editing on free TV rather than the PPV it was supposed to be shown on. In the end, the only parts of the Cena/Khali feud that will be remembered are the idiotic booking that had Cena making Khali tap in 7 minutes, and then Cena throwing Khali off a crane. Def. not a ringing endorsement to the feud's legacy, but still better than not being able to show the match on PPV. Next up, Umaga. Basically the same feud as Khali (blame the booking, not the wrestlers) with the exception that Umaga is at least easier to work with than Khali. I thought that the NYR match between them was ok, but more important than the match was the fact that the "fluke" angle really was successful at getting Estrada over as a heel manager. (Just as an aside : Where is he and why isn't he being used at all..is he still out selling Lashley throwing him out of the ring?) I just re-watched the LMS match from the Rumble and wasn't disappointed at all. I thought that it was well booked in that Umaga got the majority of the offense, so he didn't come out of the match looking weak. I don't think this is the same thing as "carrying the match", however, as a big part of the storytelling was Cena selling the spleen injury and getting his own toughness over. Again, it wasn't a memorable feud, but it established Umaga pretty highly. To say that Umaga carried the feud and the best match would, in my estimation, be incorrect. Finally, HBK. Easily Cena's best program of the year and one of my favorite programs of the year overall. Here it is fair to say that HBK carried Cena. But you can't say that he did everything. In order for the pre-Mania build-up to work, they both had to be on point with promos and "who is gonna turn on who" part of the storyline. When it came to the actual matches, obviously HBK carried, but Cena also kept up. And that makes sense. If you are in the ring with one of the best of all time, why wouldn't you let him lead? That feud was great for both the fans' enjoyment, and for Cena as a learning experience. It will be interesting to see if he can pull from the lessons learned from that feud to enhance this program with Lashley and future programs. Based not only on the promo from last Monday, but also their interaction since Lashley was drafted to Raw, it looks like that might be happening.

 

[BrooklynBuc]

I like the 619. It was an escape move Mysterio did in WCW, and he and the WWE turned it into an offensive set-up for his finishers (the hurricanrana, frog splash, or leg drop). Plus, at least a drop toe-hold onto the ropes as a set-up makes a little sense. No one else does it, so I think it's a cool move. The People's Elbow I never liked, because it's just as unbelievable as the 5-Knuckle Shuffle. Perfectly good spinebuster, followed by kicking the arm in, taking off the elbow-pad, throwing it to the crowd, running off the ropes twice while jumping over the prone body, slowing down, and dropping a skinny-ass elbow on the still downed opponent. I used to be pissed when The Rock won with the People's Elbow. I was like, "it's a freakin' elbow drop! I could kick out of that!" The Rock beat Eddie Guerrero with it, for Christ's sakes. I used to take bathroom breaks and come back and he was STILL doing it! (By the way, I actually caught The Rock's elbow pad in the crowd once, it was cool but it took forever for him to do it.) As for RVD's rolling senton, its point is just like Mysterio and Cena; tell the crowd I'm doing a move and then do it.

At least Cena's 5-Knuckle Shuffle isn't a finisher. I'd rather it be a set-up move than actually beat someone with it. Sure, a punch to the face hurts, especially when you're dropping onto them, but as a finisher, definitely not. I don't like moves where the guy who's down basically has to wait while the other guy does a bunch of taunts, like The Worm and The People's Elbow. Even Hogan's legdrop bothers me. At least top rope moves have a look of impact to keep the person down. The Legdrop and the Worm, not so much.

By the way, when you guys are doing the moves to each other, remember to do the taunts too (Cena's "you-can't-see-me" with the hand in the face, and Mysterio's woop to the crowd) so you see how long it takes. Count me in for doing the Rolling Thunder to both of you.

 

[Matfan35]

Here is my problem with Cena in a nutshell: The man never fricking sells anything. No, I'm not exaggerating, just watching his matches confirms what I said. Cena is clearly becoming this generations version of Hulk Hogan (and not in a good way, mind you.) and it's pissing a lot of hardcore fans right off, and here's why:

In 1984, Hulk Hogan stepped out of the mid-card, walked into a championship match against Iron Sheik, and changed the face of wrestling forever. Hulkamania was born, and, at first, fans ate it up with a spoon. I will even admit that I was one of them. I always liked his "superman" type of gimmick where he would overcome the odds and win no matter what. At least I liked it for the first three years he was champion. When Randy Savage won the title in 1998, it was like a breath of fresh air. A new star was emerging, and finally, Hulk could disappear for awhile, and I wouldn't mind one bit. Unfortunately, that was not the case, and in roughly one year from that date, Hogan took the title back, and began a reign that absolutely sucked ass. The reason it sucked was the same reason it succeeded in the first place: He never lost. never.

In 1984, that was fine, but we were now in 1989, and it just came off as jaded and old. Fans did want to see that anymore and made their opinions well known. Warrior was then chosen to take the strap from Hogan, which didn't work as well as the powers that be might've hoped, and so in a round-a-bout way, they hotshotted the title back to Hogan. This only served to anger fans even more. This was now 1991, and Hogan's time was up. Fans wanted someone, anyone else to hold the title. Enter Flair. 1992's Royal Rumble came along and Flair did the unthinkable: he won the Rumble and the title along with it.

Wrestlemania IX came along a year later, and this time, it would be a young upstart, a new emerging superstar, named Bret Hart who would take the wrestling world by storm. His match against Yokozuna at WM IX would turn out to be horrible, but for reasons that didn't even have anything to do with Bret Hart at all. After losing the match (and the title) to Yokozuna, the WWE pulled something out of their collective hats that was both inexplicable and mind-numbingly ridiculous all at the same time. Hogan charged the ring, beat Yoko and walked out the champion again. To say that the fans loathed the outcome, was an understatement of mammoth proportions.

Hogan lost the title a few months later, and fans breathed a sigh of relief, but it was short-lived as he appeared in WCW and started his egotistical crap (see no-selling) all over again.

Now, what, you may ask, does this have to do with John Cena? Everything. Once again, we have a young man who shows up at a major event and beats a superstar of the modern era for a major championship in his first title match (vs. Big Show for the US Title). He would then parlay that into title shot after title shot. All well and good, until the moment he challenged the World Heavyweight Champion (JBL) at Wrestlemania and beat him squarely in the middle of the ring. Shortly thereafter, he became a Raw Superstar and became the WWE Champion. Since then, he has rarely, if ever, lost. When it comes to championship matches, the odds switch to "practically never". A few examples:

January 8th, 2006: Edge beats Cena for the WWE title after Cena had held the championship for over one full year (he had won it on April 3rd at WM).

January 29th, 2006: After a barely three week reign, Edge is unceremoniously unseated as champion by Cena.

April 2, 2006 - WrestleMania 22: John Cena defeats Triple H to retain the WWE Championship

April 30, 2006 - Backlash: John Cena defeats Triple H and Edge w/Lita in a 3-WAY to retain the WWE championship

June 11, 2006 - ECW One Night Stand: Rob Van Dam defeats John Cena with help from Edge to capture the WWE title

July 3, 2006 - RAW: Edge w/Lita defeats Rob Van Dam (c) and John Cena in a 3-WAY to capture the WWE Championship

September 17, 2006 - Unforgiven: John Cena defeats Edge w/Lita in a TLC match to capture the WWE Championship

The amazing thing about all that is this: throughout 2006, it would remain the same: Cena winning and no one else. 2007 was, unfortunately exactly the same with Cena beating the likes of Umaga (possible), Shawn Michaels (unbelievably ridiculous), retaining his title in subsequent 4-way and 6 way-matches (impossible), and the icing on the cake was his dismantling of The Great Khali (absolutely absurd, albeit necessary).

Cena clearly has draped himself in Hulk Hogan's mantle of "No-Selling" whenever possible. Hardcore fans like myself, who've watched WWE (and wrestling in general) for well over 20 years, are tired of it, and something needs to change. Now.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I just want to expand on a point Slyfox made that if fans tune in to see Cena lose the title, he's still a draw. While that's completely true, I think it's stupid to say that fans tune in to see him lose the title. If fans truly despised him, they would not tune in at all. Although, hopefully, the rumours will come true and Randy Orton will get the belt and Cena will chase the title. I'd tune in, so it seems that WWE's plans there are working - you can please the smarks and the Cena fans all at once, and at least it's something new.

I'd like to add to that point. I don't particularly despise Cena. I never did really, i was just brainwashed by other smarks to hate him because he can't do a 630 splash into a Cattle Mutilation. In fact, I just voted "I'm not a fan of his". I'm not a fan of his, but I can see why some people are, they just have different tastes than me, and so I do not despise Cena. It just so happens that the people that possess these "tastes", such as Slyfox, make up the majority of WWE's fanbase and so it is they that they pander too. That's why Cena is champion, that's why he hasn't been out of the title picture for two and a half years, and that is why I am finding him stale. Like I said, I still don't completely hate him, a lot of it isn't his fault, it's just that he's got so boring (for me, at least) that I'd rather slit my wrists than watch Raw. Would I also be correct in assuming that he's never drawn as high ratings as Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan? Someone look into that, I've got a flight to catch. See you all in a week. Then again, how can you expect anyone to watch Raw over SmackDown!, where the charasmatic, technical masterpiece names the Great Khali walks the Earth, more God than man.

 

[Slyfox696]

Here is my problem with Cena in a nutshell: The man never fricking sells anything. No, I'm not exaggerating, just watching his matches confirms what I said. Cena is clearly becoming this generations version of Hulk Hogan (and not in a good way, mind you.) and it's pissing a lot of hardcore fans right off, and here's why:

I'm not sure "sells" is the word your looking for. Selling can mean two things in pro wrestling. One) the making of monetary income. Two) acting as if an opponents offense is hurting you. That is what selling is.

I think the word you are looking for is "lose" or "job" or "put over". They mean entirely different things, but one of those is what you need. I think you probably want "lose".

In 1984, Hulk Hogan stepped out of the mid-card, walked into a championship match against Iron Sheik, and changed the face of wrestling forever. Hulkamania was born, and, at first, fans ate it up with a spoon. I will even admit that I was one of them. I always liked his "superman" type of gimmick where he would overcome the odds and win no matter what. At least I liked it for the first three years he was champion. When Randy Savage won the title in 1998, it was like a breath of fresh air. A new star was emerging, and finally, Hulk could disappear for awhile, and I wouldn't mind one bit. Unfortunately, that was not the case, and in roughly one year from that date, Hogan took the title back, and began a reign that absolutely sucked ass. The reason it sucked was the same reason it succeeded in the first place: He never lost. never.

Don't blame Hogan for Savage being overshadowed. Savage had the belt a full year and did not have one feud worth a damn...until Hogan. Hulk Hogan was the biggest draw in the company, plain and simple. People showed up to watch Hogan. And, as long as people are paying to see Hogan, then he needs to be champion.

In 1984, that was fine, but we were now in 1989, and it just came off as jaded and old. Fans did want to see that anymore and made their opinions well known. Warrior was then chosen to take the strap from Hogan, which didn't work as well as the powers that be might've hoped, and so in a round-a-bout way, they hotshotted the title back to Hogan.

Even in that epic encounter, Hulk Hogan was more popular than the Ultimate Warrior. If you don't believe me, just watch the match.

This only served to anger fans even more. This was now 1991, and Hogan's time was up.

Incorrect. Horribly incorrect. Hulk Hogan was STILL mega over, as evidenced by his 1991 Royal Rumble win, and his win over Sargent Slaughter at WM 7.

Fans wanted someone, anyone else to hold the title. Enter Flair. 1992's Royal Rumble came along and Flair did the unthinkable: he won the Rumble and the title along with it.

This was when the WWF started on its downhill slope. Attendance began to drop, Interest lessened, and the quality of the product overall suffered.

Wrestlemania IX came along a year later, and this time, it would be a young upstart, a new emerging superstar, named Bret Hart who would take the wrestling world by storm. His match against Yokozuna at WM IX would turn out to be horrible, but for reasons that didn't even have anything to do with Bret Hart at all. After losing the match (and the title) to Yokozuna, the WWE pulled something out of their collective hats that was both inexplicable and mind-numbingly ridiculous all at the same time. Hogan charged the ring, beat Yoko and walked out the champion again. To say that the fans loathed the outcome, was an understatement of mammoth proportions.

What are you basing this off of? The moment Hogan won the belt was the loudest that place got at Wrestlemania 9. Hulk Hogan winning the belt had those fans going absolutely bonkers. Now, it was a bad business decision for a couple of reasons, but to say the fans loathed that decision is absolutely ridiculous.

Hogan lost the title a few months later, and fans breathed a sigh of relief, but it was short-lived as he appeared in WCW and started his egotistical crap (see no-selling) all over again.

Yes, the fans were definitely tired of Hogan at this point. Which is why Hulk Hogan led the second boom period in wrestling, and had the WCW overtake the WWF for 84 straight Monday nights. Yes, clearly the fans were tired of Hulk Hogan.

All well and good, until the moment he challenged the World Heavyweight Champion (JBL) at Wrestlemania and beat him squarely in the middle of the ring. Shortly thereafter, he became a Raw Superstar and became the WWE Champion.

It's statements like this which make me wonder why I am even bothering to respond to this. JBL was the WWE champion at WM, and Triple H was the World Heavyweight Champion. Cena beat JBL, Batista beat Triple H. Cena became WWE Champion and Batista became WHC. Cena was the first draft pick of the 2005 draft and Batista was the last, effectively trading the two belts across the shows. Cena has never been the WHC.

Please get your facts right. This is like the 4th or 5th time already that I've had to correct you.

Since then, he has rarely, if ever, lost. When it comes to championship matches, the odds switch to "practically never". A few examples:

January 8th, 2006: Edge beats Cena for the WWE title after Cena had held the championship for over one full year (he had won it on April 3rd at WM).

*sigh* April of 2005 to January of 2006 is not one full year. Really, are you doing this on purpose?

June 11, 2006 - ECW One Night Stand: Rob Van Dam defeats John Cena with help from Edge to capture the WWE title

July 3, 2006 - RAW: Edge w/Lita defeats Rob Van Dam (c) and John Cena in a 3-WAY to capture the WWE Championship


The amazing thing about all that is this: throughout 2006, it would remain the same: Cena winning and no one else.

Umm...you listed three things above where John Cena clearly did NOT win. Edge won at NYR, RVD won at ONS, and Edge won on Raw. You also didn't mention...

August 20, 2006 - Summerslam: Edge defeats John Cena after using a pair of brass knuckles.

So, there are four losses just right there. How can you say that Cena won and no one else didn't?

He lost at the following PPVs, in which he competed for a title:
New Years Revolution
One Night Stand
Summerslam
Cyber Sunday

He won at the following PPVs, in which he competed for a title:
New Years Revolution (which was then followed by his loss)
Royal Rumble
Wrestlemania
Backlash
Unforgiven

So, let's do some mathematics with Professor Slyfox.

He competed for a main-event title in 9 PPV matches. His record was 5-4. Just a shade over .500. How can anyone say 2006 was Cena winning and no one else?

You argument is losing steam quickly.

2007 was, unfortunately exactly the same with Cena beating the likes of Umaga (possible), Shawn Michaels (unbelievably ridiculous), retaining his title in subsequent 4-way and 6 way-matches (impossible), and the icing on the cake was his dismantling of The Great Khali (absolutely absurd, albeit necessary).

None of those guys were worthy of the WWE title. Umaga plays a great heel and is a damn fine wrestler, but his gimmick is not made for a WWE champion. Shawn Michaels had to busted knees and has repeatedly said he does not want the WWE title anymore. The Great Khali is not the guy you put the number 1 belt in the company on. The only reason he has the WHC now is because Undertaker AND Edge both got hurt.

Cena clearly has draped himself in Hulk Hogan's mantle of "No-Selling" whenever possible. Hardcore fans like myself, who've watched WWE (and wrestling in general) for well over 20 years, are tired of it, and something needs to change. Now.

I'm just as "hardcore" as you, and from your post I would say I am more knowledgeable than you, at least with regards to Hogan and Cena. I've been watching the WWF/E for nearly 20 years myself, and I can honestly say I am not at all tired of John Cena.

Would I also be correct in assuming that he's never drawn as high ratings as Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan? Someone look into that, I've got a flight to catch.

You would be correct. You would also be correct in saying that NO wrestler, outside of possibly the Rock, has ever drawn as high of ratings as Steve Austin or Hulk Hogan.

The four biggest draws in history are Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and the Rock. And, really the Rock is pretty iffy given he came along during the boom period started by Hogan and exploded by Austin.

Now, I don't know if you were trying to insinuate that Cena shouldn't be champion because he doesn't draw like Hogan or Austin, but if you were, then I'm here to tell you that's a bad argument, because there is no one on the current roster who draws like Hogan or Austin. In the last 20+ years, there has been no one who draws like Hogan or Austin.

But, Cena DOES draw better than everyone else on the roster, which is why he is champion. That, and because HHH got hurt before Wrestlemania.

 

[duncanblue]

And that's fine. I can handle that opinion. I don't feel the same way, and I still enjoy Cena, but I can respect people's opinions that they think he is stale and needs a change.

My point all along is that people should respect how good of a worker the guy really is.

The five knuckle shuffle is as believable as any move in professional wrestling. Flair's knee drop, Hogan's leg drop, Rock's People's Elbow, HBK's flying elbow drop, etc. etc. etc.

I'll tell you what. I'll fall on your face, punching you with my fist, and you try to swing around the ropes and try and kick me in the face, at lets see which one hurts more. I bet I can hit you a lot more times than you can hit me.

Nearly 2 decades of watching wrestling.

It tells me that on an internet message board, with most of the votes cast before someone stuck up for Cena on a consistent basis, more people dislike Cena than like him. But, go by the numbers the WWE goes by. What does that tell you?

Then he's still a draw. *shrugs*

I'm sorry. I didn't realize there was a sign on the WWE clubhouse door that read "No girls allowed".

Sure he does. Everyone does. But, his faults are generally covered up by the areas he excels in.

No, I think Cena knows more about wrestling than you, because he's been in the business for 7 years, and has been working for the biggest and best wrestling company for 7 years. I believe he knows more than you because he's been the champion of the biggest company in the world for 2 and a half years, and has been working with some of the greatest talent throughout. I think Cena knows more than you because I can turn WWE on every Monday night and watch Cena. I don't think I've ever seen you on TV.

That's why I think Cena knows more about professional wrestling than you do.

Umm. A kick in the face would hurt more, obviously. Mysterio's setups are usually more believable, he always sets them on the rope in a believable way, and shit, unlike cena, he lets his moves be reversed every once in a while. The only smart reply you put was why Cena knows more than me about wrestling, of course he does lol he trained for the shit, but he should start showing it rather than doing only 2 WRESTLING moves a match. Guess what? Ive seen Bush on tv, but does he know an awful lot about politics, I think not....although i understand your theory, saying that he knows more than anyone because he is on tv is so....narrow minded. And that is exactly why you like Cena. And as a reply to the other person, saying Cenas fueds with Khali and Umaga saw Cena carrying his opponents, I have to agree with you, but have you seen his matches with them? Terrible, the only one worthwhile was the Royal Rumble Last Man Standing Match, which was terrific, and I have to admit, I really enjoyed that match, but when Cena had matches with the more capable superstars like HHH,Mysterio,HBK,Benoit,Edge, and Orton, he was carried, and its about half and half when it comes to good matches, it depends on how well he gets carried.

 

[Slyfox696]

Umm. A kick in the face would hurt more, obviously.

No it wouldn't, not the way Mysterio does it. You have to run, jump hold onto the ropes, then swing your legs around. It would not hurt more than having someone punching you with the full weight of their body behind it.

Mysterio's setups are usually more believable,

More believable? Are you kidding me? Cena uses his spin-out powerbomb (the move you didn't know the name of) to put the person on their back, and then does the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Mysterio matches are the only time you'll see a guy on the second rope of a match (well, now that Bossman is gone). It's not more believable, it's less.

but he should start showing it rather than doing only 2 WRESTLING moves a match.

Again, what does number of moves have to do with good professional wrestling? You know Steve Austin's moveset in 1998 and 1999? Punch, kick, Stunner. That was it. And he was still one damn fine wrestler.

although i understand your theory, saying that he knows more than anyone because he is on tv is so....narrow minded.

Your right. Under my theory, Peyton Manning is better than Demetrius Jones, 3rd string QB at Notre Dame. Maybe I'm wrong there too.

John Cena knows more about professional wrestling than you. THAT was my point from the very beginning. You asked how I could be so sure, I told you.

And that is exactly why you like Cena.

Well, that and because he is highly entertaining, a great promo man, a great role model and one damn fine wrestler.

And as a reply to the other person, saying Cenas fueds with Khali and Umaga saw Cena carrying his opponents, I have to agree with you, but have you seen his matches with them? Terrible, the only one worthwhile was the Royal Rumble Last Man Standing Match, which was terrific, and I have to admit,

I have. Last Man Standing against Umaga is my pick at the moment for Match of the Year in the WWE. I watched his match with Khali at One Night Stand just last night, and I thought it was better than HBK's match with Khali or Undertaker's LMS with Khali. I thought it was a solid main-event match. Memorable? No. 5 stars? No. But, a solid 2 or 2 and a half star affair. Nothing great, not bad.

I really enjoyed that match, but when Cena had matches with the more capable superstars like HHH,Mysterio,HBK,Benoit,Edge, and Orton, he was carried,

I'll ask you the same question I've asked a million times and YET have gotten a response. How was Cena carried in ANY of those matches? Please explain to me how he was carried. Don't tell me because "they're great and he sux LOL OMG~~!". Show me how he was carried. Demonstrate to me that you even know what it means to be carried in a professional wrestling match.

And, because I know you won't, I'm going to go ahead and say it. You can't show how Cena was carried because the fact of the matter is that Cena WASN'T carried. At no point in any of those matches (when was Rey?) was Cena carried by his opponent. Now, his opponent may have had the offensive portion of the match. But that does not mean he is carrying him.

If you want to see a carryjob, look no further than the carryjob Cena did for RVD at ONS 2. Cena showed what it means to carry an inferior worker.

 

[Ticked Off Texan]

No it wouldn't, not the way Mysterio does it. You have to run, jump hold onto the ropes, then swing your legs around. It would not hurt more than having someone punching you with the full weight of their body behind it.

You do have a point there, but if you could swing around with enough momentum it could hurt pretty bad, but I've yet to meet anyone that can pull it off.

More believable? Are you kidding me? Cena uses his spin-out powerbomb (the move you didn't know the name of) to put the person on their back, and then does the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. Mysterio matches are the only time you'll see a guy on the second rope of a match (well, now that Bossman is gone). It's not more believable, it's less.

That's true, its just that Cena set it up the same way every match, spin-out powerbomb, 5-knuckle shuffle, F-U, STFU

Again, what does number of moves have to do with good professional wrestling? You know Steve Austin's moveset in 1998 and 1999? Punch, kick, Stunner. That was it. And he was still one damn fine wrestler.

Now that you mention it, all the fan favourites have had limited movesets, The Rock generaly used a spine buster, rock bottom, peoples elbow. Triple H, face crusher (the one where it smashes there face on his knee), spine buster, knee to face, pedigree.

I have. Last Man Standing against Umaga is my pick at the moment for Match of the Year in the WWE. I watched his match with Khali at One Night Stand just last night, and I thought it was better than HBK's match with Khali or Undertaker's LMS with Khali. I thought it was a solid main-event match. Memorable? No. 5 stars? No. But, a solid 2 or 2 and a half star affair. Nothing great, not bad.

The last man standing match against Umaga was ok at the best and that only worked because Umaga was made to look like an unstoppable SOB and Cena's more of a brawler then a wrestler, IMO. And against Khali? Memorable? HELL NO! I almost forgot that this match happened.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked a million times and YET have gotten a response. How was Cena carried in ANY of those matches? Please explain to me how he was carried. Don't tell me because "they're great and he sux LOL OMG~~!". Show me how he was carried. Demonstrate to me that you even know what it means to be carried in a professional wrestling match.

And, because I know you won't, I'm going to go ahead and say it. You can't show how Cena was carried because the fact of the matter is that Cena WASN'T carried. At no point in any of those matches (when was Rey?) was Cena carried by his opponent. Now, his opponent may have had the offensive portion of the match. But that does not mean he is carrying him.

If you want to see a carryjob, look no further than the carryjob Cena did for RVD at ONS 2. Cena showed what it means to carry an inferior worker.

Do you care to explain why your asking what a carry job is and then give an example of a carry job. And right now I'm gonna say the RVD is better Cena could ever hope to be in that ring, I don't care about how they work off screen because that's not the product WWE is trying to sell.

And a carry job is when one wrestler controls most of the offensive moves with the other wrestler needing to come up with a way to mount a comeback and win or lose after a "valient effort" making said wrestler look good in the match and getting the fans into it, that's pretty much what it is IMO but everyone sees it differently. But Cena was carried at WM against HBK.

And Sly, you've given me a new respect for John Cena, I still don't like Cena and I never will but I do respect him and you, it takes guts to stick up for something you believe in when everyones against you.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's true, its just that Cena set it up the same way every match, spin-out powerbomb, 5-knuckle shuffle, F-U, STFU

That may be, but it's not bad wrestling psychology. Hell, Bret Hart did the same exact thing. It makes sense on a lot of different levels, on why it is good wrestling psychology.

Now that you mention it, all the fan favourites have had limited movesets, The Rock generaly used a spine buster, rock bottom, peoples elbow. Triple H, face crusher (the one where it smashes there face on his knee), spine buster, knee to face, pedigree.

Exactly. This is not a John Cena thing, it is the typical WWE babyface style of match. And, there is nothing wrong with it. More moves doesn't make for better matches. Good storytelling and psychology makes for better matches.

More moves in a match may be good to create a training video, but it really doesn't have much to do with making a good match. It doesn't hurt it, but it doesn't help it. It is inconsequential.

The last man standing match against Umaga was ok at the best and that only worked because Umaga was made to look like an unstoppable SOB and Cena's more of a brawler then a wrestler, IMO. And against Khali? Memorable? HELL NO! I almost forgot that this match happened.

The Umaga match at RR 07 was phenomenal. Great storytelling, fantastic use of the ring, and it all fit inside the story of the match and the feud. It was a hell of a match and best match I've seen in 2007. The HBK/Cena was close, but, in my opinion, is not quite as good.

And, I don't disagree that Khali match wasn't memorable. But, it wasn't an embarrassment either.

Do you care to explain why your asking what a carry job is and then give an example of a carry job.

Because I know what a carry job is and because I've explained already how Cena carried RVD at One Night Stand. It's somewhere back in this thread. I've already explained my position on that, and how Cena carried him. I've yet to see anyone do the same for these other matches in which Cena was supposedly carried.

And right now I'm gonna say the RVD is better Cena could ever hope to be in that ring, I don't care about how they work off screen because that's not the product WWE is trying to sell.

The biggest problem RVD has is that he has no concept of in-ring psychology and he's completely spotty. He connects well with the crowd, even w/o high risk maneuvers, but his spots are illogical and poorly transitioned into. I think Xfear posted one of his matches vs. Jerry Lynn from ECW, and the entire match was like watching a checklist of spots being marked off. "Ok, we did the flip from the corner..what's next? Thats right, the dive through the ropes. Check. What now? Oh yeah, the Van Terminator". You were painfully aware of how each spot was positioned and set up towards. Transitions were either piss poor or not even present.

Take Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania 3. Nearly that whole match was mapped out and planned, spot by spot, piece by piece. And, it was phenomenal. Why? Because the spots made sense. They were logically placed into the story of the match, every move made sense, and was crisp and clean, and the transitions between the bigger spots was flawless. You were never aware you were watching a wrestling match, you feel as if you are genuinely watching a realistic struggle between two men.

That's what Cena gives you. He gives you great storytelling in the ring, with logical transitions that rarely are obvious. One spot flows nicely into the next, all while in the context of the story of the match. RVD doesn't do that, and that is why I consider him an inferior worker. RVD relies on cheap pops from flashy moves too often, which is a shame because he is charismatic enough in the ring to not have to do that. He has just never learned how to work on a higher level though.

And a carry job is when one wrestler controls most of the offensive moves with the other wrestler needing to come up with a way to mount a comeback and win or lose after a "valient effort" making said wrestler look good in the match and getting the fans into it, that's pretty much what it is IMO but everyone sees it differently. But Cena was carried at WM against HBK.

This is untrue. A carryjob is when one wrestler has to walk another through the match, spot by spot. He controls the pacing, the storytelling, the transitions etc. He's the one that covers the weaknesses of his opponent, whether it be through his offense or through his selling. The one who is carried will generally be lost in the ring, and rely on the carrier to move him place to place, spot to spot. In addition, the one doing the carrying is usually the one which draws the crowd into the match, and is responsible for the crowd reaction to moments in the match.

That's what it means to be carried. And, when you watch a Cena match, notice how that never happens. When he is on offense, one offensive move always seems to set up the perfect position for the next. When he is selling moves, notice how he always sells towards the next spot. He gets punched three times and he may back into the ring corner to be irish whipped to the opposite turnbuckle. Slam his face into the announcers table? He'll probably stumble around to the other side of the ring. He's not being carried at all.

What you are referring to is just running the offensive portion of the match. That has nothing to do with being carried. Somebody has to do the hitting, and someone has to do the selling.

And Sly, you've given me a new respect for John Cena, I still don't like Cena and I never will but I do respect him and you, it takes guts to stick up for something you believe in when everyones against you.

I appreciate the compliment.

I don't ask that anyone like Cena's character, or even that anyone respects the length of his title reign. I understand that people get tired of long title reigns (although I try to point out that short title reigns are not any better, or that there hasn't been any viable alternative). What I want people to understand is that there is more to wrestling than 45 moves in a match, and a bunch of top rope flips. I want people to understand that Brawling is an acceptable style of match, and that some of the greats in our business worked that style during their prime years. And I want people to be able to look objectively at Cena's in-ring work and realize that he is actually pretty damn good.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Slyfox!
Yet again you amaze me and the reason that you amaze me is because, you're right! There is more to wrestling than alot of moves in a match and brawling is an acceptable style in wrestling (i.e. Stone Cold). When it comes down to it, I would have to say that Cena is one of the better brawlers that we have seen since Stone Cold. Not only can he pull off brawling, but he works the mic very well, not as good as Stone Cold, but you would have to be the Rock to be that good.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the next time I see Cena in a match or on T.V. I don't have to hate myself for watching that segment of the show. Cena is good at what he does, but I think that is why I don't like him! I have nothing against brawling, but I can't stand to see it all of the time! It get boring!

My favorite wrestler, The Phenom, The Corner Stone of the WWE (as JBL likes to put it), The Undertaker, is my favorite because he mixes it up in all of his matches! He brawls, no doubt about that, but he also throws some flying clotheslines, oldschool, and an occasional dive over the top rope in! Not only that, but he has proven to be proficient at submission wrestling. He has perfected the dragon sleeper and the triangle choke old. The match that he had at NO Way Out with Kurt Angle in 2006 was a wrestling clinic.

I guess what I am trying to say is that, Cena should be respected for what he can do, but if someone as big as Taker' can do the things that he does, then Cena should look at refreshing his in ring game. Everytime Taker' comes back, he comes back with a refreshened move set and in ring tactic. Cena should do something like this. If he did, I would actually acknowledge the fact that Cena could be one of the best of all time. I would actually turn into a Cena fan!