Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
It was between Elvis and Jackson for me, but I felt I could make a better case for Jackson, and he's also more relevant than Elvis and a bigger draw to a wider variety of people.
NXT: Non-Wrestling Moderator
- Thread starter IrishCanadian25
- Start date
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Controversial doesn't have to mean offensive. Eminem changed rap; he proved that it wasn't just a medium for African-Americans to voice their discontent with the system or to lament how brutish and short life in the hood is. No other white rapper was significant before Eminem, and I doubt that one as significant will come around for a long, long time.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
So Eminem being a white rapper was controversial and the first and only significant white rapper? Right let me go tell the Beastie Boys that, I"m sure they'd be shocked to learn they weren't significant in the rap game. 9x platinum on their debut album would suggest otherwise.
Hip hop was a positive music outlet in it's original beginnings followed up by the political and social rap with the likes of Public Enemy, followed by the gangsta rap that was prevalent in the 90's. Eminem didn't necessarily change rap, he changed the perception that a white boy couldn't be a hardcore rapper. I will agree he changed that idea because white rappers in the past were more about partying and having a good time. Eminem was capable of changing that perception around and prove that white boys could indeed be hardcore and tell riveting stories on the mic.
I agree with Ty, but I also agree with tDigs.
It wasn't about Eminem being white... it was about the fact that he wouldn't keep his mouth shut and loved to start battles with the most sensitive of groups. He offended the gays, lesbians, mothers against violence, political figures, pop artists, mainstream figures, and a lot of the (not so young) audience. That's a big deal, especially during a time period where the media had resources to blow his issues up into the next world war.
It wasn't about Eminem being white... it was about the fact that he wouldn't keep his mouth shut and loved to start battles with the most sensitive of groups. He offended the gays, lesbians, mothers against violence, political figures, pop artists, mainstream figures, and a lot of the (not so young) audience. That's a big deal, especially during a time period where the media had resources to blow his issues up into the next world war.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
We're talkin' controversy here, not most influential.
Exactly why it's not about Eminem's color. It's more about his music's effect on the audience.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
It goes for anyone trying to bring rap innovation into this, sure NWA was innovative, and so was Eminem, but the question here is simply the most controversial, innovation doesn't have a home in this discussion.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
Problem is SSC your argument is about lifestyle and choices, not about the music itself, and I think that's what everyone is going for, controversy in the music itself. Jackson's music was relatively safe. You could play an MJ song anywhere and be fine, try playing an NWA or Eminem song in a public place, it just don't fly.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
That's not my problem though, I'm more than within the definition of the question.
As I've said in my thread a few times, if the question was pick an artist who made the most controversial music than it would be a whole different story, but the question was controversial musician, and Michael Jackson is in fact Controversial, and a Musician.
The question was not about the music itself, it was about choosing a controversial musician, and there in lies the dilemma with everyone's argument that it's about the music, because it's not about the music, it's about the controversy. If you choose your musician because of the controversial music than that's all fine and dandy, but nowhere did it say that this competition was about controversial music.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
I haven't had a chance to read any of the threads yet, but this makes the most sense to me. What was the most controversial stuff Eminem ever did? Talk shit? Bash gays? Yeah he rapped about raping his own mother but was he ever actually accused of it? Jackson's music was never really controversial but his lifestyle was and he was actually accused of heinous crimes. Eminem talked controversy, Jackson lived it. Eminem always came off to me as shock value for shock values sake.
Ty Burna
Getting Noticed By Management
Then what's the point of having it in the music section other than it's classified down to Most controversial person who happened to be a musician? If Hitler played the violin I could say Hitler was a musician and then go off about his war atrocities and tactics being controversial.
At that point it's not about the music, it's about the personal life of a person rather than the music, and it's better off in the Cigar Lounge at that point.
At that point it's not about the music, it's about the personal life of a person rather than the music, and it's better off in the Cigar Lounge at that point.
I don't think your cause is lost mate.
Sure it does. All of these choices were innovative for their various musical abilities.
I know the point about Beastie Boys has been made but Eminem took it further.
Anyone could be very controversial. Only a few can be influential and innovative. MJ is matched by only a couple of names for his musical talent.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
It's still about the musician, and if the question was posed differently you would have a point, but the question wasn't "Choose a musician with the most controversial music", but that seems to be what everyone's interpretation is, but that's not the question that was asked.
Either was it belongs in the music forum, as the music forum is for all forms of musical conversation. Just because it's mainly used to discuss the actual music made by the artists doesn't mean that a conversation about a musicians life style shouldn't be in the music section. I see your point about the cigar lounge, but it fits just as nicely in the music forum.
I'm well within what the question asked, more so than the people who thought it was just about the music, because nowhere in the opening question did it say "Who makes the most controversial music" but rather "who was the most controversial musician" those are two completely different questions.
Smooth Sexual Chocolate
Grapefruits of Wrath
If we bring innovation into this than Michael Jackson blows everyone out of the water, as he had more of an influence than the other three artists combined.
There would be no NWA if it wasn't for the Jackson 5, but this is not about who innovated the game, but about the musician with the most controversy.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
If you're referring to MJ, then no that is not a stretch in the least.
edit: Regarding MJ's influence.
IrishCanadian25
Going on 10 years with WrestleZone
Let me clear this one up.
Sometimes, an artists controversy is related to his influence on other artists. For example, the controversial personas of guys like Ozzy and Alice Cooper certainly influenced Mariyn Manson. As long as the person arguing in favor of the particular musician can link the influence to the controversy itself.
Remember, just like last week, the object of this isn't only to convince us that you're right; it's the technique you use when you debate, how logical you are, how strong your opinion is, the research you do and the effort you put into the posts, and how effectively you drive discussion in the thread, vis-a-vis in the section itself.
Does that help, or does my use of "vis-a-vis" just FUBAR everything even further?
Sometimes, an artists controversy is related to his influence on other artists. For example, the controversial personas of guys like Ozzy and Alice Cooper certainly influenced Mariyn Manson. As long as the person arguing in favor of the particular musician can link the influence to the controversy itself.
Remember, just like last week, the object of this isn't only to convince us that you're right; it's the technique you use when you debate, how logical you are, how strong your opinion is, the research you do and the effort you put into the posts, and how effectively you drive discussion in the thread, vis-a-vis in the section itself.
Does that help, or does my use of "vis-a-vis" just FUBAR everything even further?
Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra
Kinda Sorta Old School
SO anyone want to post in my thread? Or is it so obvious that you can't make a case?
Marilyn Manson was a fantastic choice and you had a great OP, but it's hard to go in there and add anything, since you pretty much covered it all. If I was actually a fan of the guy and knew his music, then I would be able contribute. But unfortunately I'm not, and just can't figure out anything else to add.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
The Beastie Boys weren't significant in the rap game. They started out as a punk group and their most well-known music was a rap/heavy metal hybrid popularized by producer Rick Rubin. The Beastie Boys' popularity is largely to due to a middle-class, white following. This is exactly why you rarely hear The Beastie Boys on rap/R&B stations and almost always hear them on hard rock stations.
You're thinking of one group here, and that's The Beastie Boys. As I've already stated, they were not groundbreaking in the least, and, if they're rappers, then so is John Lydon.