Cromartie had one good year, in 2007, and he has been living off of that season for the last couple years. I find him to be overrated and as great as Revis is I'll take the tandem of Hall and Joseph over him and Cromartie. The one thing Leon Hall does for the Bengals tandem that is certainly better then the Jets tandem is he is very good in run support. I don't know what it is but Michigan corner backs just always seem to be very good in that aspect of the game. Revis isn't bad in run support but he isn't on Hall's level and Cromartie is absolutely horrendous in run support. It's close but I'll take the Bengals tandem.
NFL Thread - 2010-11
- Thread starter LamaNamaneumi
- Start date
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
Which sum is greater: 10+7 or 8+8? I'd take the 10+7, especially since the 7 has proven in the past he could be a 10.
And Hall/Joseph are more like 3-4 notches below Revis. Revis is alone on an island (pun definitely intended) on the top notch, nobody on the 2nd notch, the Oakland Guy (don't feel like looking up his name to spell it right) and the Packer guy who robbed Revis of the DPOY last year (Woodson) are on the next notch, then there's the notch of the great guys few people have heard of (like Hall/Joseph). By the way, I'd say if Cro isn't on that notch, he's on the one below it.
And I never said I'd take Wilson over either one of the Cincy guys. I said I'd take Revis, the best corner in the past 15 years, and Wilson over the Cincy guys. From what I've seen with Wilson, there's some merit in thinking he'll be excellent.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
1. Revis is better in run support then you give him credit for. The guy gets mislabeled as strictly a cover guy because Rex had him covering the #1 receiver all game most games. He stops the run excellently, he has blitzed the QB effectively, and he's the best cover guy in the past 15 years.
2. I agree Cro hasn't been good at run support. he proved that last playoffs. However, I see him being a bit more aggressive this year, under a super-aggressive coach in Rex Ryan. He still won't be excellent, great, or maybe even good, but he could be less then absolute horrible shit.
3. Cro has lived off the 2007 year, but he's been in a zone scheme and he's a Man corner. He also had what I believe was a hip problem that he is over now. Oh, the biggest aspect of all? He's in a contract year. Players play better when they know they are looking for a new contract.
I don't give two shits what a guy does in training camps. Reggie Bush was thought to be the next big thing in 06 and he's been the every down back only 1 year for the Saints. And Hall/Joseph are on the same level as Woodson. Both get their picks and can defend the ball. Peter King called them the best combo in the NFL last year. These guys are legit top 5 corners.
1. I didn't say he was bad in run support, just not as good as Hall.
2. He has never been good in run support that's just not his style. A more aggressive coach may make a small change but nothing too noticeable.
3. I'll believe it when I see it. Right now I see him as an overrated guy who gets beat far too much.
I don't care what anyone says, no one was a more complete defender then Woodson last year. In terms of coverage, run support, forcing turnovers, getting to the quarterback, he did everything at a high last year. I know Trooper disagrees but Woodson was most definitely the most deserving guy for the DPOY award.
16mikeytot
DAMN My Ex-Gf just got implants!!!
Yeah I gotta agree with BS you look at Revis and Woodsons stats and Woodson was definitely more deserving of DPOY.
Woodson: 74 tackles: 2 sacks: 4 forced fumbles: 9 ints
Revis: 54 tackles: 0 sacks: 0 forced fumbles: 6 ints
Im not saying Woodson is better than Revis but the stats state that Woodson is better in run support which is a rare quality in corners.
Woodson: 74 tackles: 2 sacks: 4 forced fumbles: 9 ints
Revis: 54 tackles: 0 sacks: 0 forced fumbles: 6 ints
Im not saying Woodson is better than Revis but the stats state that Woodson is better in run support which is a rare quality in corners.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
Again, you're selling Revis short on run stopping.
1. You're numbers say that teams threw to Woodson more.
2. Revis didn't make as many tackles because the 09 Jets D >>>>>>> 09 Packers D, especially on the run. Revis didn't have the chance to make as many tackles because the Jets D didn't let the running backs get to Revis.
3. Woodson has 2 sacks. Good for that. How many times did he blitz? Revis sacked the QB 100% of the time he blitz, since he didn't do it at all. And Sacks are about as important to cornerbacks as bunts are to cleanup hitters in baseball.
4. Revis did his job better then virtually any defensive player in the game. His job was the hardest thing for any corner to do, shut down the top receiver on any team. And he was PERFECT.
5. You forgot a few stats:
Revis: 36 Pass Deflections, 2 TDs allowed
Woodson: 18 Pass Deflections, more then 2 TDs allowed (can't find the number now, but it's significantly higher then 2).
Wide receivers Revis is credited with shutting down:
-Andre Johnson
-Randy Moss (twice)
-Terrell Owens (twice)
-Carolina Steve Smith
-Chad OchoCinco (twice)
-Marques Colston
-Roddy White
-Reggie Wayne
Wide Receivers Woodson is credited with shutting down:
none
The slight difference in run stopping and pass rushing is not enough to cover the immense difference in coverage (Woodson may be excellent, but in Pass Coverage, Revis is #1 and no one is near him).
Once again it's not the "Cover Corner of the Year" award it's the "Defensive Player of the Year" award. You take Woodson away from that packers D last year and they are one of the worst in the league. You take Revis away from the Jets and while they are worse off they would still have one of the better defenses in the league.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
OK then, it's not call "Defensive Most VALUABLE Player," it's "Defensive Player of the Year." They're looking for the BEST, not the most VALUABLE, it's 2 different things. Why do you think Peyton Manning won the MVP, but not Offensive Player of the Year? He was the most important player, bu not the best offensive player. Woodson very well may have been more VALUABLE, but Revis had a BETTER year.
I realize it isn't all about value but don't act like value doesn't at least play a role in it. Woodson overall had the better year in terms of everything he did. I'm not knocking Revis because he did as he was told. His focus was to go out an shut down the oppositions number one target and he did an amazing job of that, but it doesn't mean he was more deserving of the award then Woodson who did his multiple tasks at a very high level.
16mikeytot
DAMN My Ex-Gf just got implants!!!
Peyton Manning won the mvp because he had the best team. Peyton Manning didn't win offensive player of the year because he didn't have the best stats. Revis may have had a better year than Woodson but not statistically. Woodsons stats are better than Revis and apparently the voting goes by stats not how many catches and yards you hold the other teams best receiver too.
No, you're wrong on that. Peyton Manning won MVP because he's the most valuable to his team. You remove Manning and the Colts are average. Yes it is most valuable to a good team but Manning deserved it because he fuels the Colts engine.
I know this wont add to your debate but Revis is the better cornerback. Revis will shut you down. No one has a good game when Revis is defending them. People have good games against Woodson. I only saw a few games with Woodson but I do remember the game against the Steelers and he was getting beat on whether he was covering Ward, Wallace or Holmes. You aren't going to beat Revis like that. No chance in hell.
I know this wont add to your debate but Revis is the better cornerback. Revis will shut you down. No one has a good game when Revis is defending them. People have good games against Woodson. I only saw a few games with Woodson but I do remember the game against the Steelers and he was getting beat on whether he was covering Ward, Wallace or Holmes. You aren't going to beat Revis like that. No chance in hell.
1. No one is arguing that Woodson at 33 is a better cornerback then Revis, but last year he was the overall best defensive player. Green Bay used him as more of a hybrid, corner/safety/even outside linebacker. He did more with less around him.
2. I remember that Green Bay vs Pitt game. Jarret Bush and Tramond Williams were the ones getting beat for the most part.
BS is definitely right with this one. Cromartie has been living off his one fantastic year for several years now. There's a reason why the Chargers let him go. They aren't fucking stupid. I don't know how much money Cromartie is making as a Jet but odds are he's probably overpaid.
The LT move was pretty damn good though. With Greene and LT in the backfield, look for a damn dominant running game out of the Jets. It's a damn good idea to invest in the running game for the Jets, seeing Sanchez is still a bit suspect in the passing game. He's definitely improving, but he still has ways to go before he is an elite QB in the league. I understand the hype behind the Jets being the SB favorite, but I feel like acquisitions like Holmes and Cromartie won't turn out the way everyone feels they will. Though if Sanchez can step up and perform at a high level this year, look out. Because the Jets already have one of the best, if not the best, defenses in the league, as well as a dominant running game in Greene/LT.
Also, whoever said Manning only won MVP because he was on the best team, congratulations. That is the single dumbest thing I have read in this thread.
I just want some damn football already. Pre-season isn't doing it for me.
The LT move was pretty damn good though. With Greene and LT in the backfield, look for a damn dominant running game out of the Jets. It's a damn good idea to invest in the running game for the Jets, seeing Sanchez is still a bit suspect in the passing game. He's definitely improving, but he still has ways to go before he is an elite QB in the league. I understand the hype behind the Jets being the SB favorite, but I feel like acquisitions like Holmes and Cromartie won't turn out the way everyone feels they will. Though if Sanchez can step up and perform at a high level this year, look out. Because the Jets already have one of the best, if not the best, defenses in the league, as well as a dominant running game in Greene/LT.
Also, whoever said Manning only won MVP because he was on the best team, congratulations. That is the single dumbest thing I have read in this thread.
I just want some damn football already. Pre-season isn't doing it for me.
TwistofRKO
The Legend Killer himself
Fail. What was said was MVP on the best team. Big difference.
Jeeeez. People need to learn to read. Where's the entrance exam?
And the Jets still have good CBs behind Cromartie too. They drafted Kyle Wilson and have Kyle Lowrie as their 4th CB, assuming Revis is back. If Wilson pans out that's a real solid 1-4.
Jeeeez. People need to learn to read. Where's the entrance exam?
And the Jets still have good CBs behind Cromartie too. They drafted Kyle Wilson and have Kyle Lowrie as their 4th CB, assuming Revis is back. If Wilson pans out that's a real solid 1-4.
Maybe you should take the exam.
16mikeytot said "Peyton Manning won the myp because he had the best team"
Yeah, definitely didn't misread that one.
Well the Jets better hope they can figure out a deal with Revis. Because their defense goes down a letter grade without him.
I'm pretty sure you fail. Learn to read next time and make dumb assumptions. And I don't understand how an unproven CB can be considered good yet, either. He hasn't done jack shit yet. Wilson may be a future All Pro, but right now, he's nothing and anyone saying he's more then that is ******ed. People said the same thing about Bush and Leinart and look what they're doing now. Bush is nothing more then a situational back and Leinart is gonna be out of Arizona soon. Nothing is a guarantee in the NFL until they do it when it counts.
16mikeytot
DAMN My Ex-Gf just got implants!!!
Some of you guys don't know what im saying. Peyton won the mvp award because he was the key piece on the best team in the league. If The Colts go 10-6 or 11-5 last year then Peyton wouldn't have won mvp it would of went to Brees or Favre.
TwistofRKO
The Legend Killer himself
And I don't understand how an unproven CB can be considered good yet, either. He hasn't done jack shit yet. Wilson may be a future All Pro, but right now, he's nothing and anyone saying he's more then that is ******ed. People said the same thing about Bush and Leinart and look what they're doing now. Bush is nothing more then a situational back and Leinart is gonna be out of Arizona soon. Nothing is a guarantee in the NFL until they do it when it counts.
I thought he was referring to Becker's post. I usually skip over incoherently put together posts. That is my bad.
You however, take your own advice there genius. I said if Wilson pans out, clearly indicating I'm aware he's not arrived.
Thanks for the rant of the obvious though.
Looks like Leinart is heading out of Arizona soon. What a tool. He was pretty pissed that he wasn't starting the next preseason game, and now it looks like he's on the way out. Not just for that, but for him being an overall disappointment throughout his career.
The Giants, Redskins, and Raiders seem to be the most likely scenarios, where Leinart won't be anything more than a backup. As for the Cards, Anderson would likely start this year, but John Skelton and Max Hall will be competing for QB of the future.
The Giants, Redskins, and Raiders seem to be the most likely scenarios, where Leinart won't be anything more than a backup. As for the Cards, Anderson would likely start this year, but John Skelton and Max Hall will be competing for QB of the future.
Honestly Leinart was actually having a solid pre season. He wasn't making many big plays but he wasn't getting many opportunities either. I'm by no means a Leinart fan but he is certainly a better choice then Derek Anderson. People seem to think that Anderson can just relive his 2007 season but he has shown no signs of being capable of doing that. In fact his 2007 season is vastly overrated by many people. He only completed 56.5% of his passes and threw 19 picks with a qb rating of 82.5. That's a good season but by no means was it great and he has been complete shit since then. With Leinart I had the Cardinals at 8-8 maybe 9-7. With Anderson they'll get 7 wins max.
I doubt they'd be good with either. Leinart really hasn't show anything throughout his entire career, which is his problem. Sure, his preseason wasn't bad, but it wasn't good either. Based on his past track record, lack of leadership skills, and being Matt Leinart, they probably weren't going to win with him now, or in the future.
Anderson isn't much better. Being a Steeler's fan, I was never scared to play him. He has something like 5 good games that one year, making him a ton of money over the rest of his career. Of course, 5 good games is 5 more than Leinart ever had.
Like I said, they aren't getting much from the QB position either way this year. At this point, it's probably best to just get Leinart out of there and start getting one of the rookies ready for the future
Anderson isn't much better. Being a Steeler's fan, I was never scared to play him. He has something like 5 good games that one year, making him a ton of money over the rest of his career. Of course, 5 good games is 5 more than Leinart ever had.
Like I said, they aren't getting much from the QB position either way this year. At this point, it's probably best to just get Leinart out of there and start getting one of the rookies ready for the future
Yeah, they weren't going to the playoffs no matter who their qb was but at least Leinart doesn't turn the ball over. Anderson is a turnover machine and Arizona's defense certainly isn't good enough to deal with the amount of time they will be on the field this year. San Fran could probably win this division at 8-8.
You didn't point out what you were talking about. Not my fault.
As for the Leinart situation, idk, I thought he should've gotten a shot. While Leinart is shit, Anderson is the shit that sticks on the toilet for a few days before slowly wearing away. Both are terrible, but Leinart would probably give me a better chance of winning. Pretty much fucks up my pick of the Cards making the playoffs, though.
