Mickie James-- The best Diva the WWE has ever seen?

[PEP3]

After wading through the back-and-forth war words, I'm compelled to log in again here. People are absolutely right. Much of the first couple of years Trish wrestled, she was pretty horrible. However, she compensated for that by being wildly popular with the fans. Whether as a face or a heel, she was one of the most over performers on the entire roster -- male or female.

Now since it could be open to debate whether or not Mickie is similarly popular (I'd argue she's barely a fraction as beloved as Trish ever was), let's look at something that's not really open for debate. This is an iron-clad reality that I'd be genuinely amused to see someone debate.

Not only is Trish a seven-time Women's Champion, acting as the face of the WWF Women's division for the majority of her tenure with the company, she also worked legitimate main-event angles with the WWF's top talent. Even Mr. McMahon incited a feud with her, a recipe he generally reserved for superstars like The Rock, Mankind and Stone Cold. Obviously that storyline only served to make Trish that much more popular.

During all of those interactions with the main roster, Trish was able to draw huge heat as a heel and massive amounts of sympathy as a face. The fans went wild for her. For whatever the reason -- and people could debate why that is all day long -- Mickie James has never been given that opportunity. Ever. Period. That factor alone boosts Trish ahead of Mickie in my book.

Of course, with all of that said, I'm still not convinced Trish is the greatest Diva in WWE history. However, I'd certainly rank her ahead of Mickie. And, to be completely honest, I'd have to lump several other greats (all previously mentioned in this thread, if not my own posts) in line ahead of Mickie, too.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

No I'm just randomly defending her because I have nothing better to do....



Sorry, you kinda walked right into that one. Yes, I am one of the biggest Trish marks you will ever find....

HAHAHAHA... your sarcasm .... no comment
You never know.

Mickie VS Trish was the best match of Mickie's career, but not Trish's. There's too many to pick from to say Trish's best one is. It's ONE of her best one's I'll give you that one.

I think that is her best one. I really liked her and lita's but not as much as her and mickie. The other ones that I remember are good, but nothing that I would say I would be confused with wich one was the best of hers.

Nope. Many of the ones that are seen as "barbie dolls" or "models" rather than female wrestlers, they mostly got hired for being beautiful. Not for being passionate about joining the WWE. Trish was one of the few who actually wanted to be there.

I consider anyone that came from the indies, who worked their ass of learning skills to be passionate. Trish didnt wrestle at first, she got her passion at the wwe. But I have to admit that even though she came without wrestling ability, she did come with allot of passion. It is shown how much she improved. You can't say that for the divas that come becuase of their beauty.

She did have the talent, but even the TNA version of Victoria (Tara) has nothing on Trish. She's been in great storylines over there compared to those last years on Smackdown, but is still not top tier for "best diva ever".... whereas Trish makes the top tier for nearly every fan's list.

I don't watch TNA. I just compared it when she got storylines at the wwe at first. And I do think that she was great. She did a great job builidng in the storylines and I do remember them because of that.

No exactly the opposite would happen. The only reign Mickie would ever have gotten would be the one from after the Trish match at Wrestlemania 22. No one would have taken her seriously up until that feud if she was around back then. This was when Trish was unstoppable, Lita was still there, Victoria wasn't stuck in bad storylines as much, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Mickie came in at the right place at the right time.

I don't think so. She has everything a diva needs to be noticed and not forgotten. Proved by her first feud.

Bring it on. You're a worthy opponent, especially for being so new to these forums.... but Trish is still the best diva ever.

I am happy you think I am a worthy opponent, so are you. We will see how this end becasue in my eyes Mickie James is 100% the best diva ever to grace the wwe and I don't think I will change in opinions.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I think that is her best one. I really liked her and lita's but not as much as her and mickie. The other ones that I remember are good, but nothing that I would say I would be confused with wich one was the best of hers.

Trish/Lita (the last one) was better than Trish/Mickie at Wrestlemania 22. The long feud overhyped the match itself. Not that the match was bad, it wasn't. Much better than any recent divas match.

I don't watch TNA. I just compared it when she got storylines at the wwe at first. And I do think that she was great. She did a great job builidng in the storylines and I do remember them because of that.

You don't watch TNA? You're missing out.

I don't think so. She has everything a diva needs to be noticed and not forgotten. Proved by her first feud.

No, like I said. She was in the right place at the right time. That feud was so great more because of Trish than Mickie. Nothing Mickie has done since then has even come close, and this is all during a time when most of the divas are awful. Whereas Trish was top tier during the best time for the women's division.

I am happy you think I am a worthy opponent, so are you. We will see how this end becasue in my eyes Mickie James is 100% the best diva ever to grace the wwe and I don't think I will change in opinions.

We'll see about that. Your turn.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

So glad you two are having fun with this K_V_W(A_U_A) and Dagger Dias. Ok I am with K_V_W(A_U_A) all the way. Mickie is and always will be the best. The WWE is the reason why you can't see that. The divas have to work with the storylines they are given and Mickie does great with the ones she is given.

 

[Dagger Dias]

So glad you two are having fun with this K_V_W(A_U_A) and Dagger Dias. Ok I am with K_V_W(A_U_A) all the way. Mickie is and always will be the best. The WWE is the reason why you can't see that. The divas have to work with the storylines they are given and Mickie does great with the ones she is given.

Yeah you have to work with the storylines you are given, but the best of the best can make even bad storylines work. Trish could do that. Mickie's only good feuds were 4 years ago with Trish and right now with Michelle. Trish could have made any of the storylines for Mickie's title reigns memorable because she was that talented.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Trish/Lita (the last one) was better than Trish/Mickie at Wrestlemania 22. The long feud overhyped the match itself. Not that the match was bad, it wasn't. Much better than any recent divas match.

Well I guess that is a difference in opinion. I can say that for me this was the best match of both of these divas carreer.

You don't watch TNA? You're missing out.

Maby I am missing. But if I go one more tv show, I won't have time for studying. And that won't be the best thing to do. I am trying to resist watching anything else, and that includes TNA.

No, like I said. She was in the right place at the right time. That feud was so great more because of Trish than Mickie. Nothing Mickie has done since then has even come close, and this is all during a time when most of the divas are awful. Whereas Trish was top tier during the best time for the women's division.

I don't think so. It was not because of trish. If you had used a diva that did not know how to act it out, it would have been cut short. Mickie did a real great job acting as the part and I think it was outstanding. Mickie could not do anything special after that because the wwe are not hiring the right divas to make a good storyline. The divas devision became boring and people stopped caring. Ofcourse you have mickie doing a great job. But you need 2 to make a great diva fued. Which is why Trish had great fueds. Ofcourse her talent counts 2, but you also need the other talents to make it interesting. Which is why I only consider 3 fueds great with trish stratus in it.

We'll see about that. Your turn.[/QUOTE]

Good luck with converting me... your turn

 

[Dagger Dias]

Well I guess that is a difference in opinion. I can say that for me this was the best match of both of these divas carreer.

True, you're entitled to your opinion and when it comes to "best matches" people rarely change their minds. Still though.... show me any other Mickie match but the Trish one, that has a chance of being remembered 5 years from now.

Maby I am missing. But if I go one more tv show, I won't have time for studying. And that won't be the best thing to do. I am trying to resist watching anything else, and that includes TNA.

You're certainly missing out. TNA is great. If you can't watch it live then try taping it, since you like Mickie you will love the TNA Knockouts, the worst TNA Knockouts are about on par with the best of the currently active WWE divas if that tells you anything. The best of all is Taylor Wilde, her VS Trish is one of my dream matches.

I don't think so. It was not because of trish. If you had used a diva that did not know how to act it out, it would have been cut short.

Yeah, Trish was a bigger part of why the Mickie/Trish feud was so good. You actually just said so yourself that if they had used a diva who did not know how to act it out then it would get cut short. Says a lot about Trish doesn't it? Not as much as the other awesome things she did though like great feuds and title reigns.

Mickie did a real great job acting as the part and I think it was outstanding. Mickie could not do anything special after that because the wwe are not hiring the right divas to make a good storyline.

Wrong. If Mickie was as good as Trish she could make any feud memorable. Take the forgettable feud with Maryse over this summer. Had that been Trish VS Maryse in that feud, it would have been almost as good as Mickie VS Trish was. How about the thing with Alicia Fox recently? Trish could have made that memorable too.

The divas devision became boring and people stopped caring. Ofcourse you have mickie doing a great job. But you need 2 to make a great diva fued. Which is why Trish had great fueds. Ofcourse her talent counts 2, but you also need the other talents to make it interesting. Which is why I only consider 3 fueds great with trish stratus in it.

You do need the other talents, but like I just said.... Trish could carry any feud. She could be in the ring talking to an inanimate object like a plastic bag or something, and still make it entertaining. She was simply the greatest ever, and the standard that every diva in this generation will be held to.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

True, you're entitled to your opinion and when it comes to "best matches" people rarely change their minds. Still though.... show me any other Mickie match but the Trish one, that has a chance of being remembered 5 years from now.

Well, I would consider mickie vs lita to be rememberable. But that was more because it was a great match.
I have a feeling that the current feud with michelle will be memorable. It is already stirring some people that think it is disrespectful, and I think it will be remembered.
I would consider the first time mickie beat beth phoenix also memorable. I was extatic about that one.
Ofcourse I would remember all of mickie's matches since if u haven't noticed, I am a huge mickie fan.

You're certainly missing out. TNA is great. If you can't watch it live then try taping it, since you like Mickie you will love the TNA Knockouts, the worst TNA Knockouts are about on par with the best of the currently active WWE divas if that tells you anything. The best of all is Taylor Wilde, her VS Trish is one of my dream matches.

I wish I could tape it... But no own TV no love. Living at a student house .... hopefully something will happen soon though that I can watch it....

Yeah, Trish was a bigger part of why the Mickie/Trish feud was so good. You actually just said so yourself that if they had used a diva who did not know how to act it out then it would get cut short. Says a lot about Trish doesn't it? Not as much as the other awesome things she did though like great feuds and title reigns.

You are twisting the way I ment it. If mickie was replaced by someone who could not act the part as the stalker, it would have been a fail. Mickie did a great job of acting it out, wich concluded to a succes!!!... It was both Trish AND mickie that made that fued a giant succes

Wrong. If Mickie was as good as Trish she could make any feud memorable. Take the forgettable feud with Maryse over this summer. Had that been Trish VS Maryse in that feud, it would have been almost as good as Mickie VS Trish was. How about the thing with Alicia Fox recently? Trish could have made that memorable too.

I don't think so. That "fued" was now well scripted. I am not a fan of maryse work as en entertainer. I don't see what people see in her since she is REALLY repetative. Maby it is because of her heel injury she had during that whole time, but I would not say that trish would have mad it memorable.
Did they even have a fued with alicia fox. It was just 1 match for the title and thats it. There was no storyline, just a match pretty much. And again, no, Trish would not have made that "fued" better.

You do need the other talents, but like I just said.... Trish could carry any feud. She could be in the ring talking to an inanimate object like a plastic bag or something, and still make it entertaining. She was simply the greatest ever, and the standard that every diva in this generation will be held to.

If you have proof that Trish could actually do that, I will believe you. But for now I dont believe that Trish would be capable of making the most boring fued entertaining.
Mickie is doing a great job even with the bad devision. It goes to prove that she would have been GREAT if she was in the division earlier.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Well, I would consider mickie vs lita to be rememberable. But that was more because it was a great match.

That's what we were talking about in that part though, was individual matches.

I have a feeling that the current feud with Michelle will be memorable. It is already stirring some people that think it is disrespectful, and I think it will be remembered.

It will be memorable, but because of the Piggie James video and Michelle's shirt. There is a whole thread about that. Just to warn you though, I've been defending Michelle in there.

I would consider the first time mickie beat beth phoenix also memorable. I was extatic about that one.

Yeah, but that was memorable because Beth is the best diva right now. She and Michelle are probably the only currently active divas who are better than Mickie. Although, Kelly could be the next Trish. She's been trying to improve a lot, like Trish when she was young.

Also, the Beth feud was supposed to be Ashley Masaro, not Mickie. Remember how Ashley's comeback was such a big deal that she got the victory in a match no one thought she would even be in? Then Ashley got fired though because of the escort service controversy and Mickie was the next best face at the time.

Ofcourse I would remember all of mickie's matches since if u haven't noticed, I am a huge mickie fan.

Lol, yep I noticed. It's always good to be a fan of who you like. I like Mickie too, I just like other divas more.

I wish I could tape it... But no own TV no love. Living at a student house .... hopefully something will happen soon though that I can watch it....

Try looking up matches on youtube. They have a women's tag division too, look up Taylor Wilde & Sarita. The best two right there, and they are the Knockout Tag Team Champions right now.

You are twisting the way I ment it. If mickie was replaced by someone who could not act the part as the stalker, it would have been a fail. Mickie did a great job of acting it out, wich concluded to a succes!!!... It was both Trish AND mickie that made that fued a giant succes

No it wouldn't. Trish would have made the other person look good if they were bad. She actually did that for Mickie at the first part of this feud. They both played a part, you are absolutely right there.... Trish played a bigger part though. Without her that feud would have been a failure. (Mickie being a fan/stalker of another diva, that is.)

I don't think so. That "fued" was now well scripted. I am not a fan of maryse work as en entertainer. I don't see what people see in her since she is REALLY repetative. Maby it is because of her heel injury she had during that whole time, but I would not say that trish would have mad it memorable.

Why not?

Did they even have a fued with alicia fox. It was just 1 match for the title and thats it. There was no storyline, just a match pretty much. And again, no, Trish would not have made that "fued" better.

Yes, they did. Mickie feuded with Alicia for the Divas Championship. You've already forgotten it because it was a bad feud. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if it was Alicia VS Trish though.

But for now I dont believe that Trish would be capable of making the most boring fued entertaining.
Mickie is doing a great job even with the bad devision. It goes to prove that she would have been GREAT if she was in the division earlier.

Trish's segments were always great, no matter what happened.... and being top tier in a group where most of them suck means very little. In a group where most of them are good, you are held to a much higher expectation. Mickie would only be regarded as average during most of Trish's career if she had been there the whole time.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

It will be memorable, but because of the Piggie James video and Michelle's shirt. There is a whole thread about that. Just to warn you though, I've been defending Michelle in there.

I know you ahve been defending Michelle. I have been reading. But when I finally made an account, it has quited down, and so I decided to let that b.

Yeah, but that was memorable because Beth is the best diva right now. She and Michelle are probably the only currently active divas who are better than Mickie. Although, Kelly could be the next Trish. She's been trying to improve a lot, like Trish when she was young.

Also, the Beth feud was supposed to be Ashley Masaro, not Mickie. Remember how Ashley's comeback was such a big deal that she got the victory in a match no one thought she would even be in? Then Ashley got fired though because of the escort service controversy and Mickie was the next best face at the time.

I don't think so. Beth phoenix and michelle are not better then mickie. Beth has been really boring. I have not seen her shine at any point. Sure she is a dominant diva, but it has been a really boring dominance. And she has lost all that creditability ater losing so many times. And what are they doing again, trying to build her dominance again. It shows that she can only circulate around 1 kind of storyline. And it has grown stale. She is a good wreslter, and she is good on the mic, but she is not versitile enough. She is to boring to be considered better then mickie. Michelle on the other hand is a really entertaining heel, she is an ok wreslter. But I dont think she is that good. She is annoying to listen to, and I just can't stand listining to her. She is a terrible face. She is good, better then most current divas, but not better then mickie. She just currently started bbuilding a heat from the wresling fans because mickie did had to boost it up.

Lol, yep I noticed. It's always good to be a fan of who you like. I like Mickie too, I just like other divas more.

Everyone has their opinion. I cannot say more.

Try looking up matches on youtube. They have a women's tag division too, look up Taylor Wilde & Sarita. The best two right there, and they are the Knockout Tag Team Champions right now.

Any good recomended matches? I don't think I can jst find the right match just like that.

No it wouldn't. Trish would have made the other person look good if they were bad. She actually did that for Mickie at the first part of this feud. They both played a part, you are absolutely right there.... Trish played a bigger part though. Without her that feud would have been a failure. (Mickie being a fan/stalker of another diva, that is.)

Well duhh... If you are going to have a stalker role, it would have to be an over face, and so trish was the best option. I didn't think mickie was bad at all. Not even at the start. And don't u dare say thats because of Trish. I think she did it all on her own.

Why not?

Trish would not have made it memorable because it would have been the same crappy stoyline. And U know what i think about a wreslter and storylines... Well I hope you do, otherwise you got lost in ou debate.

Yes, they did. Mickie feuded with Alicia for the Divas Championship. You've already forgotten it because it was a bad feud. It wouldn't have been nearly as bad if it was Alicia VS Trish though.

Hahahaha... I swear. If only trish was actually still there to prove my point. And what feud???? It was a number one contender match, alicia one, she pinned mickie a few times, and they had the match. NOHING SPECIAL... it was just what they do to "build up" to the match for the title. No storyline what so ever. It was pretty much what they did for all of her matches to defend the divas title.

Trish's segments were always great, no matter what happened.... and being top tier in a group where most of them suck means very little. In a group where most of them are good, you are held to a much higher expectation. Mickie would only be regarded as average during most of Trish's career if she had been there the whole time.

I don't think so. Mickie would have proved that she could hang with all the "top tier" divas... She has wat it takes. And I dont know why you don't see it. Must be a blind trish fan ...

 

[Dagger Dias]

I know you ahve been defending Michelle. I have been reading. But when I finally made an account, it has quited down, and so I decided to let that b.

Ah, gotcha. I was ready for some big debates in that thread but you're right things did die down quickly in there.

I don't think so. Beth phoenix and michelle are not better then mickie. Beth has been really boring. I have not seen her shine at any point. Sure she is a dominant diva, but it has been a really boring dominance. And she has lost all that creditability ater losing so many times. And what are they doing again, trying to build her dominance again. It shows that she can only circulate around 1 kind of storyline. And it has grown stale. She is a good wreslter, and she is good on the mic, but she is not versitile enough. She is to boring to be considered better then mickie.

I see where you are going.... but not you're entirely right on this one. I don't really find it boring at all when she squashes someone who has no chance against her. I have a thing for amazons, which is no secret on this forum, and I also like overkill. I'm going to make a video game analogy. What Beth is doing is the equivalent of you fighting weak monsters left and right in a video game. Your guys get stronger as the build up more experience, then they do way more damage once it is time to face stronger monsters. Beth is doing can be seen as a real life version of that. She is training herself so that she can destroy anyone in her path, even the Women's Champion. She doesn't need other storylines right now because she's beautiful, great on the mic, and powerful. I think that she would do ok in other storylines, but as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Also, Beth had the best Women's Championship reign(s) since Trish left.

Michelle on the other hand is a really entertaining heel, she is an ok wreslter. But I dont think she is that good. She is annoying to listen to, and I just can't stand listining to her. She is a terrible face. She is good, better then most current divas, but not better then mickie. She just currently started bbuilding a heat from the wresling fans because mickie did had to boost it up.

Michelle gets a really hard time on this forum because she's dating Undertaker. Same reason a lot of people give Triple H a tough time about marrying Stephanie. Michelle is very entertaining as a stuck up character when she is a heel, and she was also great as the "hot but nice" face, like "that nice girl you grew up with who got really pretty", kinda. Michelle is a future candidate for best diva. She will never get anywhere near Trish, but she will at least make the top 10 someday.

Everyone has their opinion. I cannot say more.

So true. I might not agree with everything someone else says, but in every debate I try my hardest to respect their opinion. I wish more people on this forum would do that. There are some that really don't.

Any good recomended matches? I don't think I can jst find the right match just like that.

Try finding their feud with The Beautiful People. (Angelina Love, Velvet Sky, Madison Rayne, and more recently Lacey Von Erich). They had a good feud with them.

Well duhh... If you are going to have a stalker role, it would have to be an over face, and so trish was the best option. I didn't think mickie was bad at all. Not even at the start. And don't u dare say thats because of Trish. I think she did it all on her own.

She was only bad at the start. Mickie did her part and I certainly acknowledge that.

Trish would not have made it memorable because it would have been the same crappy stoyline. And U know what i think about a wreslter and storylines... Well I hope you do, otherwise you got lost in ou debate.

Yeah she would have. Maryse is like a heel version of Trish who is less talented and has an accent. It would have been like Trish facing an evil version of herself, and that kind of feud is rarely bad. Maryse is viewed as one of the better divas right now, to have her feud with a legendary diva back in her prime? Now there's a divas dream feud for many fans.

Hahahaha... I swear. If only trish was actually still there to prove my point. And what feud???? It was a number one contender match, alicia one, she pinned mickie a few times, and they had the match. NOHING SPECIAL... it was just what they do to "build up" to the match for the title. No storyline what so ever. It was pretty much what they did for all of her matches to defend the divas title.

They had Alicia win a contendors match, then they promoted their PPV match for a few weeks on Raw, while Mickie and Alicia interacted with each other. Then they had their PPV match. Kim and Mickie did even less than that, so if you don't count Alicia then it brings it down to Maryse as the only "true" feud Mickie had for the Divas Championship.

I don't think so. Mickie would have proved that she could hang with all the "top tier" divas... She has wat it takes. And I dont know why you don't see it. Must be a blind trish fan ...

I do see it, it's just that there were so many other divas back then that Mickie would have had to up her game tenfold in order to have a role bigger than what Layla has now on Smackdown. In all honesty, she probably would have been the 4th best back then, with Trish still being 1st.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Ah, gotcha. I was ready for some big debates in that thread but you're right things did die down quickly in there.

Hahaha... got me?! .... Well to tell you the truth. I was really pissed off at first that they would put a real life problem into a storyline, and I did not approve. But the more I though about it, the more I thought that it has the potential to be a great fued. And I loved last friday's promo. It really got me into it and so I thought that it might still be a good thing. I just hope that they let mickie win for all the shit they made her go through with the piggy shit... Still think it is mean.

I see where you are going.... but not you're entirely right on this one. I don't really find it boring at all when she squashes someone who has no chance against her. I have a thing for amazons, which is no secret on this forum, and I also like overkill. I'm going to make a video game analogy. What Beth is doing is the equivalent of you fighting weak monsters left and right in a video game. Your guys get stronger as the build up more experience, then they do way more damage once it is time to face stronger monsters. Beth is doing can be seen as a real life version of that. She is training herself so that she can destroy anyone in her path, even the Women's Champion. She doesn't need other storylines right now because she's beautiful, great on the mic, and powerful. I think that she would do ok in other storylines, but as the old saying goes "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Also, Beth had the best Women's Championship reign(s) since Trish left.

Ok, when you are right, you are right. She does play the role of the glamazon really well. And so there is no need to change it. BUT you can't keep using the same toilet paper to whipe off the trash u drop in the toilet. It does get stale. And if you are trying to build her as a dominant diva, she should not have lost to the likes of kelly kelly and others.

Michelle gets a really hard time on this forum because she's dating Undertaker. Same reason a lot of people give Triple H a tough time about marrying Stephanie. Michelle is very entertaining as a stuck up character when she is a heel, and she was also great as the "hot but nice" face, like "that nice girl you grew up with who got really pretty", kinda. Michelle is a future candidate for best diva. She will never get anywhere near Trish, but she will at least make the top 10 someday.

I would complain if michelle was bad. But she is doing a heck of a job as a heel, and so I dont mind. But I don't see how she was entertaining as a face. NO WAY NO HOW... the fans never cheered her. Michelle is already on of the best diva ofcourse... just not the best, and I dont think with her talent in wreslting she could be the best.

So true. I might not agree with everything someone else says, but in every debate I try my hardest to respect their opinion. I wish more people on this forum would do that. There are some that really don't.

You respects someone opinions aslong as they do the same with yours. I am doing a perfect debate hee with you without getting pissed off at all.

Try finding their feud with The Beautiful People. (Angelina Love, Velvet Sky, Madison Rayne, and more recently Lacey Von Erich). They had a good feud with them.

I'll check it out. Must be good if you want to see a dream match with ur favorite diva.

She was only bad at the start. Mickie did her part and I certainly acknowledge that.

I don't remember her being bad. And I do remember that fued since I used to watch it over and over again... Guilty pleasure... But I guess you might see it that way since she was fresh meat.

Yeah she would have. Maryse is like a heel version of Trish who is less talented and has an accent. It would have been like Trish facing an evil version of herself, and that kind of feud is rarely bad. Maryse is viewed as one of the better divas right now, to have her feud with a legendary diva back in her prime? Now there's a divas dream feud for many fans.

It depends how the wwe build that storyline... If they do it the way you are saying it here, then yes. But if they did it the way they did it with mickie and maryse, then no!

They had Alicia win a contendors match, then they promoted their PPV match for a few weeks on Raw, while Mickie and Alicia interacted with each other. Then they had their PPV match. Kim and Mickie did even less than that, so if you don't count Alicia then it brings it down to Maryse as the only "true" feud Mickie had for the Divas Championship.

Yes, I would say only with maryse mickie had a fued. They did not have anything special with the alicia and mickie one. Just the same old in a longer version.

I do see it, it's just that there were so many other divas back then that Mickie would have had to up her game tenfold in order to have a role bigger than what Layla has now on Smackdown. In all honesty, she probably would have been the 4th best back then, with Trish still being 1st.

Well yes, ofcourse she would have had to keep her game. But if you look at her indies and other matches, I would say she proved that she can do it. IDK what happens at wwe, but most divas that come from the indies now are downgraded.

And so Mickie is still the best in my opinion... I wonder what you have to say next

 

[Dagger Dias]

Hahaha... got me?! .... Well to tell you the truth. I was really pissed off at first that they would put a real life problem into a storyline, and I did not approve. But the more I though about it, the more I thought that it has the potential to be a great fued. And I loved last friday's promo. It really got me into it and so I thought that it might still be a good thing. I just hope that they let mickie win for all the shit they made her go through with the piggy shit... Still think it is mean.

Yeah, it will be a good moment for Mickie and the fans if she wins after all the Piggie James stuff. The Mickie VS Michelle feud has been great.

Ok, when you are right, you are right. She does play the role of the glamazon really well. And so there is no need to change it. BUT you can't keep using the same toilet paper to whipe off the trash u drop in the toilet. It does get stale. And if you are trying to build her as a dominant diva, she should not have lost to the likes of kelly kelly and others.

That's different. She can squash jobbers endlessly. Kelly needed to win too though. She could very well be the next Trish, but if she never beats bigger names then she won't look like a legit threat to the champion next time she gets a title shot. Kelly both needed and deserved that win.

I would complain if michelle was bad. But she is doing a heck of a job as a heel, and so I dont mind. But I don't see how she was entertaining as a face. NO WAY NO HOW... the fans never cheered her. Michelle is already on of the best diva ofcourse... just not the best, and I dont think with her talent in wreslting she could be the best.

Actually the fans did cheer her. Michelle was actually coming close to Trish's level of reaction from fans. The fans loved Michelle as a face. She won a series of events to determine who the most popular diva was on Smackdown, and after Michelle won those she got enormous pops from the live crowd no matter where she was.... until she turned heel. Her true fans like me still cheer her though.

You respects someone opinions aslong as they do the same with yours. I am doing a perfect debate hee with you without getting pissed off at all.

Yep you are, and it seems that others are enjoying reading it because this thread has been viewed many times yet most of the posts are us going back and forth.

I'll check it out. Must be good if you want to see a dream match with ur favorite diva.

Actually my only diva dream match that I have seen was Trish VS Beth Phoenix. Look up the mixed tag team match they had with John Cena and Chris Jericho as their tag team partners. The guys may have been there, but I counted it as a divas dream match since I had always wanted to see Beth and Trish go at it.

I don't remember her being bad. And I do remember that fued since I used to watch it over and over again... Guilty pleasure... But I guess you might see it that way since she was fresh meat.

Pretty much. I liked both of them at the time, its just that my liking of Mickie died down a lot in the past year or so.

It depends how the wwe build that storyline... If they do it the way you are saying it here, then yes. But if they did it the way they did it with mickie and maryse, then no!

I still disagree there. Trish VS Maryse would have been gold with or without the Divas Championship.

Well yes, ofcourse she would have had to keep her game. But if you look at her indies and other matches, I would say she proved that she can do it. IDK what happens at wwe, but most divas that come from the indies now are downgraded.

She had what it took to be good. No denying it. She just doesn't have what it took to be the best, only one woman can be the best diva ever.... and her name was Trish Stratus.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Yeah, it will be a good moment for Mickie and the fans if she wins after all the Piggie James stuff. The Mickie VS Michelle feud has been great.

Agreed

That's different. She can squash jobbers endlessly. Kelly needed to win too though. She could very well be the next Trish, but if she never beats bigger names then she won't look like a legit threat to the champion next time she gets a title shot. Kelly both needed and deserved that win.

I don't think she has the potential. Kelly kelly has improved, true... But she is FAR FAR FAR AWAY from being like Trish. And I don't think that she will ever be like Trish. I can't see it. And even if they are trying to build her up like that, she would need a win over beth when she was good enough. When she beated beth at that time she was not good at all.

Actually the fans did cheer her. Michelle was actually coming close to Trish's level of reaction from fans. The fans loved Michelle as a face. She won a series of events to determine who the most popular diva was on Smackdown, and after Michelle won those she got enormous pops from the live crowd no matter where she was.... until she turned heel. Her true fans like me still cheer her though.

I do not remember this... I remember her "cheers" being really quiet and nobody really caring... Give me an example, there is no way. And I know i got bored of her as a face. Only true fans still cheer for the wrestler as a heel. And I believe you that u r a fan of hers.

Yep you are, and it seems that others are enjoying reading it because this thread has been viewed many times yet most of the posts are us going back and forth.

Hahahaha... I did not notice the high amount of views till now ... We doing a great job. Oh if only I would get payed

Actually my only diva dream match that I have seen was Trish VS Beth Phoenix. Look up the mixed tag team match they had with John Cena and Chris Jericho as their tag team partners. The guys may have been there, but I counted it as a divas dream match since I had always wanted to see Beth and Trish go at it.

How can you consider that a dream match... U knew from the beggining that Trish was going to win. Plus not much action. I would say that would have been a teaser or something... I would be pissed off about that.

Pretty much. I liked both of them at the time, its just that my liking of Mickie died down a lot in the past year or so.

I completely understand why. Idk what the WWE did to her, but it has been a bad year for her. I am just one of does true fans... loved her both as a heel and a face. And I know now that it will never change!

I still disagree there. Trish VS Maryse would have been gold with or without the Divas Championship.

I think that you misunderstood. I ment to say the build up to the fued that mickie had with maryse... it didnt matter if it was for the title or not. If Trish got that same buildup that mickie had, it would have been that same bring thing! It was not a good build up. Now if they did it in a way that they showed that maryse was trish's evil side, then it might have been interesting. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE BUILDUP

She had what it took to be good. No denying it. She just doesn't have what it took to be the best, only one woman can be the best diva ever.... and her name was Trish Stratus.

She does have it. She is already the best in my books. And you are right, only one diva can be the best ever. But you can always have different books with different opinions. And in my book, wich I might add is the best book ever , it says that mickie james is the best diva ever
And so now it is ur turn again to debate, unless you wanna give up

 

[Dagger Dias]

I don't think she has the potential. Kelly kelly has improved, true... But she is FAR FAR FAR AWAY from being like Trish. And I don't think that she will ever be like Trish. I can't see it. And even if they are trying to build her up like that, she would need a win over beth when she was good enough. When she beated beth at that time she was not good at all.

Kelly can still be the next Trish. She's still young. When Trish first started out, nobody.... and I mean NO ONE.... would ever have guessed that she would have the legendary career she had. With the right amount of training, and the right divas to work with, Kelly has the potential to be great. She has my support, and is gaining others' every week. Just think.... Kelly in her prime a couple of years from now, against Trish in her prime.... if only time travel was possible. I'm getting a bit off topic though.

I do not remember this... I remember her "cheers" being really quiet and nobody really caring... Give me an example, there is no way. And I know i got bored of her as a face. Only true fans still cheer for the wrestler as a heel. And I believe you that u r a fan of hers.

You don't remember it? This was from after she dumped Palumbo until her feud with Maria for the divas championship.... so, from around Fall of 2007 until December of 2008 she was a massively cheered face. This was almost a year's worth of Smackdowns. She got bigger pops than some of the guys, similar to Trish back in the day. I'll agree that her heel turn added more to her character, but the fans loved her as a face.

How can you consider that a dream match... U knew from the beggining that Trish was going to win. Plus not much action. I would say that would have been a teaser or something... I would be pissed off about that.

A dream match is a match that the fan wants to see very badly. Yeah, Trish's odds of winning were around 90% because she was the guest host that week (and her guesting was one of the few good things to ever come out of that guest host concept) but I still really enjoyed the match.... more than probably any interaction between any diva since Trish left. A "true" match between them were Trish passes the torch to Beth would be a dream come true though.

I completely understand why. Idk what the WWE did to her, but it has been a bad year for her. I am just one of does true fans... loved her both as a heel and a face. And I know now that it will never change!

There is actually a rumor flying around that Vince thinks she got fat. I'm pretty sure the thread for that is still up somewhere on this site, and it was brought up in the Piggie James thread. I'm a fan of hers too, she does do great as both a heel and a face.... but I'm not going to defend her against divas that I like more than her such as Kelly, Beth, Michelle, and of course Trish.

I think that you misunderstood. I ment to say the build up to the fued that mickie had with maryse... it didnt matter if it was for the title or not. If Trish got that same buildup that mickie had, it would have been that same bring thing! It was not a good build up. Now if they did it in a way that they showed that maryse was trish's evil side, then it might have been interesting. IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE BUILDUP

That would have made Trish VS Maryse all the better. Trish (by diva standards) was untouchable on the mic. Maryse is one of the better divas on the mic now. A buildup of promos with Trish would skyrocketed the already talented Maryse straight to the top if this feud had been possible.

She does have it. She is already the best in my books. And you are right, only one diva can be the best ever. But you can always have different books with different opinions. And in my book, wich I might add is the best book ever , it says that mickie james is the best diva ever

I still say that Trish is the best, not Mickie, because she accomplished more. Even if Mickie manages to get more title wins, Trish's popularity is almost as untouchable as her mic skills. Mickie would have to get involved with the male wrestlers' storylines more, and up her game quite a bit more if she wants to come close to that.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Kelly can still be the next Trish. She's still young. When Trish first started out, nobody.... and I mean NO ONE.... would ever have guessed that she would have the legendary career she had. With the right amount of training, and the right divas to work with, Kelly has the potential to be great. She has my support, and is gaining others' every week. Just think.... Kelly in her prime a couple of years from now, against Trish in her prime.... if only time travel was possible. I'm getting a bit off topic though.

Hmmm... Yea, It's true, she does have lots of years, since she is so young.... We will see what happens. But for now she is not really good at all.

You don't remember it? This was from after she dumped Palumbo until her feud with Maria for the divas championship.... so, from around Fall of 2007 until December of 2008 she was a massively cheered face. This was almost a year's worth of Smackdowns. She got bigger pops than some of the guys, similar to Trish back in the day. I'll agree that her heel turn added more to her character, but the fans loved her as a face.

Ok, i know she was a face then, but it was not like she got massive cheers, she got some good cheers, but most of the time they were just average. I think that I would most likely need to browse through that one... But I don't think that I am mistaken. Are you sure that you are not overreacting???

A dream match is a match that the fan wants to see very badly. Yeah, Trish's odds of winning were around 90% because she was the guest host that week (and her guesting was one of the few good things to ever come out of that guest host concept) but I still really enjoyed the match.... more than probably any interaction between any diva since Trish left. A "true" match between them were Trish passes the torch to Beth would be a dream come true though.

I do know what a dream match is! But I would say it is dissapointing what RAW gave us then. They would want to see a true match! not the short one they gave us.

There is actually a rumor flying around that Vince thinks she got fat. I'm pretty sure the thread for that is still up somewhere on this site, and it was brought up in the Piggie James thread. I'm a fan of hers too, she does do great as both a heel and a face.... but I'm not going to defend her against divas that I like more than her such as Kelly, Beth, Michelle, and of course Trish.

I know. I've read that thread 2. And I do think that she got bigger, but I would not call her fat, she is the most normal lookng diva there. Unlike the toothpick divas. And ofcourse you won't defend someone if you like the other more!

That would have made Trish VS Maryse all the better. Trish (by diva standards) was untouchable on the mic. Maryse is one of the better divas on the mic now. A buildup of promos with Trish would skyrocketed the already talented Maryse straight to the top if this feud had been possible.

Is maryse really that good on the mic. Did you see todays raw... she sucked... she is inconsistant. Trish is good, but there is only so much she can do. No storyline, no entertainment, no one cares!

I still say that Trish is the best, not Mickie, because she accomplished more. Even if Mickie manages to get more title wins, Trish's popularity is almost as untouchable as her mic skills. Mickie would have to get involved with the male wrestlers' storylines more, and up her game quite a bit more if she wants to come close to that.

Yea, ofcourse she would need to get more storylines, but that is up to the WWE... and right now, I wont see that happening. But even still, she has proven to be the best in my eyes. Even with the few years she has been at WWE. And I hope to see more greatness to come from her.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Hmmm... Yea, It's true, she does have lots of years, since she is so young.... We will see what happens. But for now she is not really good at all.

I'd say Kelly is pretty good compared to the currently active divas. Top 10 probably. As for the "best ever" situation, no she'd be lucky to make the top 50 so far. Give her time, she'll get there I know it.

Ok, i know she was a face then, but it was not like she got massive cheers, she got some good cheers, but most of the time they were just average. I think that I would most likely need to browse through that one... But I don't think that I am mistaken. Are you sure that you are not overreacting???

I'm going by diva standards for how loud the cheers were. If you compare her to the male faces, then yeah it was average at best. Some of the divas get no reaction though. Therefore their standard for what a loud cheer is would be lower. Going by that standard she was getting amazing reactions, and they are still at least "good" now.

I do know what a dream match is! But I would say it is dissapointing what RAW gave us then. They would want to see a true match! not the short one they gave us.

Maybe they are saving it for a better time. Maybe at Wrestlemania? Highly unlikely but us fans can dream. It would more than make up for Santino winning the diva battle royal this year.

I know. I've read that thread 2. And I do think that she got bigger, but I would not call her fat, she is the most normal lookng diva there. Unlike the toothpick divas. And ofcourse you won't defend someone if you like the other more!

I'm on the same page there. She's not fat at all. She's beautiful. However, Vince has a strict rule on how he wants the females on his roster to look. That's why we have so many "tooth pick divas" as you call them.

Is maryse really that good on the mic. Did you see todays raw... she sucked... she is inconsistant. Trish is good, but there is only so much she can do. No storyline, no entertainment, no one cares!

Once again, we are going by diva standards again. Maryse is top tier on the mic. She will likely one day be the best, alongside Beth.... unless Kelly does turn out to be the next Trish as some of us (like me) have already predicted. Maryse is great on the mic when going by diva standards, and if she could have gone up against Trish in a promo she would have learned from the best and gotten even better.

Yea, ofcourse she would need to get more storylines, but that is up to the WWE... and right now, I wont see that happening. But even still, she has proven to be the best in my eyes. Even with the few years she has been at WWE. And I hope to see more greatness to come from her.

I don't either. Trish was the only one who got those types of storylines because she was the only one good enough to (for lack of a better term) deserve them. I see continued greatness for Mickie too.... just not at Trish's level because for anyone to ever beat her popularity it would take someone (like Kelly) being at her absolute best, going beyond all expectations, being in her prime, AND having the right feuds to work with.... I just don't see that happening with Mickie. The Trish feud will always be the feud she is remembered for, and possibly this one with Michelle. Whereas I have already gone into great detail on why Trish was better.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

I'd say Kelly is pretty good compared to the currently active divas. Top 10 probably. As for the "best ever" situation, no she'd be lucky to make the top 50 so far. Give her time, she'll get there I know it.

IDK... People predicted the same about Candice Michelle, and look what happened. Injury after injury. I hope kelly can become better, but I just can't see it happening now.

I'm going by diva standards for how loud the cheers were. If you compare her to the male faces, then yeah it was average at best. Some of the divas get no reaction though. Therefore their standard for what a loud cheer is would be lower. Going by that standard she was getting amazing reactions, and they are still at least "good" now.

Well then, it was still average at best, I mean compared to mickie, it's nothing much. I would not call her the most entertaining face compared the the current crop of divas.

Maybe they are saving it for a better time. Maybe at Wrestlemania? Highly unlikely but us fans can dream. It would more than make up for Santino winning the diva battle royal this year.

No thank you. I would like my wresltemania divas match with a nice buildup. And I would love this wresltemania to have something like pin all to win. Not sure what they call that. Mickie vs Beth vs Natalya vs Michelle would be a nice smackdown match for wrestlemania. I have no idea what RAW can produce with that crop of divas.

I'm on the same page there. She's not fat at all. She's beautiful. However, Vince has a strict rule on how he wants the females on his roster to look. That's why we have so many "tooth pick divas" as you call them.

I don't like that at all. Allot of the tooth pick divas scare me... There stumick freak me out, looking unnatural. Especially Alicia Fox.

Once again, we are going by diva standards again. Maryse is top tier on the mic. She will likely one day be the best, alongside Beth.... unless Kelly does turn out to be the next Trish as some of us (like me) have already predicted. Maryse is great on the mic when going by diva standards, and if she could have gone up against Trish in a promo she would have learned from the best and gotten even better.

Maryse is good on the mic, but not GREAT. Mickie is better in my opinion. I don't think maryse would be as the same level as beth. But this is going off subject. And I already explained myself about kelly... its all luck

I don't either. Trish was the only one who got those types of storylines because she was the only one good enough to (for lack of a better term) deserve them. I see continued greatness for Mickie too.... just not at Trish's level because for anyone to ever beat her popularity it would take someone (like Kelly) being at her absolute best, going beyond all expectations, being in her prime, AND having the right feuds to work with.... I just don't see that happening with Mickie. The Trish feud will always be the feud she is remembered for, and possibly this one with Michelle. Whereas I have already gone into great detail on why Trish was better.

Mickie James has a huge popularity, maybe not as big as trish, but it is really big. I would say she is the second most popular considering all divas past and present. But that is because Trish did have more of a push then she did. And I do think that mickie can handle storylines well with the males. But I think that now with the PG kind of thing, they don't have that kind of option anymore. And that is what revolved with Trish and her male interactions!
Mickie is remembered by the Trish feud, but I say it is more then just that. She has been getting cheers by herself for so long. Even when she is not seen for weeks, she gets huge cheers. She has her own fan base without the help of anyone. I have also gone into great detail on why I think Mickie is better. And I don't think that my opinion will ever change. And so I am hoping your will

 

[Dagger Dias]

IDK... People predicted the same about Candice Michelle, and look what happened. Injury after injury. I hope kelly can become better, but I just can't see it happening now.

Candice had a good run during 2007, and she was quickly becoming the face of the division.... but then Beth Phoenix came. She was simply better. Candice became more injury prone because she was so afraid of getting hurt again after that bad injury during the match with Beth. She wasn't nearly as in jury prone before 2007. It was a bad turn of events, not quite her being injury prone all the time. That's not really the case with Kelly, i don't recall her having any severe injuries yet.

Well then, it was still average at best, I mean compared to mickie, it's nothing much. I would not call her the most entertaining face compared the the current crop of divas.

On Smackdown she was. In 2007-2008 Raw had Mickie, Candice (when she wasn't injured), Ashley Masaro, Maria, and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone else. Michelle and Cherry were the only face divas on Smackdown at the time, that I can think of right now.

No thank you. I would like my wresltemania divas match with a nice buildup. And I would love this wresltemania to have something like pin all to win. Not sure what they call that. Mickie vs Beth vs Natalya vs Michelle would be a nice smackdown match for wrestlemania. I have no idea what RAW can produce with that crop of divas.

Kelly VS Maryse would be Raw's best option in my opinion. Smackdown has much better possibilities like you said.

I don't like that at all. Allot of the tooth pick divas scare me... There stumick freak me out, looking unnatural. Especially Alicia Fox.

Interesting. I didn't notice anything about their stomachs. I'm usually a bit more interested in eyes and hair than anything else on the divas.... being well endowed never hurts them either.

Maryse is good on the mic, but not GREAT. Mickie is better in my opinion. I don't think maryse would be as the same level as beth. But this is going off subject. And I already explained myself about kelly... its all luck

Mickie is better NOW. Maryse could potentially surpass her someday. Kelly and Eve definitely will, it's a matter of when. The two of them (Kelly and Eve) are the future of the division, they could easily be the next Trish and Lita respectively.

Mickie James has a huge popularity, maby not as big as trish, but it is really big. Iw ould say she is the second most popular considering all divas past and present. But that is because Trish did have more of a push then she did. And I do think that mickie can handle storylines well with the males. But I think that now with the PG kind of thing, they don't have that kind of option anymore. And that is what revolved with Trish and her male interations!

No.... Lita is the second most popular. Most people's lists begin saying different people after that but generally Trish and Lita are #1 and 2. The odds are in Mickie's favor of making #3 on my list. She hasn't done that yet though. Mickie might be able to handle a storyline with the males, they canceled the one of her dating John Cena for some reason. It would have to be a wrestler who could carry her through the feud though since many fans don't like the divas much. Trish could hold her own in promos with the guys though.

Mickie is remembered by the Trish fued, but I say it is more then just that. She has been getting cheers by herself for so long. Even when she is not seen for weeks, she gets huge cheers. She has her own fan base without the help of anyone. I have also gone into great detail on why I think Mickie is better. And I don't think that my opinion will ever change. And so I am hoping your will

She got those cheers because she was the most popular one who was left. They remembered that she had that great feud with Trish right before she left, and a very short one with Lita right before she left too. They sort of passed the torch to her. Trish is on a whole other level though because she is such a big part of why Mickie got over in the first place.... thus Trish is still the best diva ever.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Last reply before I go to bed....

Candice had a good run during 2007, and she was quickly becoming the face of the division.... but then Beth Phoenix came. She was simply better. Candice became more injury prone because she was so afraid of getting hurt again after that bad injury during the match with Beth. She wasn't nearly as in jury prone before 2007. It was a bad turn of events, not quite her being injury prone all the time. That's not really the case with Kelly, i don't recall her having any severe injuries yet.

Candice was never really that good. I idnt like how her wrestling were... and she barely talked on the mic. Nothing special about her in my opinion. Beth is simply better, true. Kelly has not been in matches that revolved around her yet. She only had 1 title watch, but thats it. I hope the best for kelly. But I still think you pu to much faith in her. I woul more likely find that developmental divas would be better.

On Smackdown she was. In 2007-2008 Raw had Mickie, Candice (when she wasn't injured), Ashley Masaro, Maria, and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone else. Michelle and Cherry were the only face divas on Smackdown at the time, that I can think of right now.

Maby she did have the biggest pop in smackdown. I would need to go check that out. As for the faces on raw and smackdown, I have no idea, they started that whole draft thing so that time so I have no idea

Kelly VS Maryse would be Raw's best option in my opinion. Smackdown has much better possibilities like you said.

Do you think kelly would be ready that fast? You have to much faith. I would like to see how she goes before I speak such things as her being the next trish stratus.

Interesting. I didn't notice anything about their stomachs. I'm usually a bit more interested in eyes and hair than anything else on the divas.... being well endowed never hurts them either.

Well, not all of the tooth pick divas have weird stumicks, just some do. There rib cage just pokes out and its just freaky. I usually also check hair. Eyes are hard on tv. And ofvourse I would not complain about well endowed

Mickie is better NOW. Maryse could potentially surpass her someday. Kelly and Eve definitely will, it's a matter of when. The two of them (Kelly and Eve) are the future of the division, they could easily be the next Trish and Lita respectively.

What is with the NOW... mickie has great mic skills. I would say on par with Trish, wich I knw you would disagree on, and I dont see maryse as a threat in mic skills for mickie, or any skills for that matter. Ypu have to much faith in the non wrestling divas. Don't you think that they would need to get some developmental divas to be the future?

No.... Lita is the second most popular. Most people's lists begin saying different people after that but generally Trish and Lita are #1 and 2. The odds are in Mickie's favor of making #3 on my list. She hasn't done that yet though. Mickie might be able to handle a storyline with the males, they canceled the one of her dating John Cena for some reason. It would have to be a wrestler who could carry her through the feud though since many fans don't like the divas much. Trish could hold her own in promos with the guys though.

I think mickie has more fans then lita. Sure lita is great. But I have noticed many opinions over her on the net. I just cant see it accumulte to her having more fans then mickie. Mickie would do just fine if they build up the divas devision properly first. That would be the first step before having her step into a man storyline.
But she has done enough to prove she can hold her own in promos with them.
She got those cheers because she was the most popular one who was left. They remembered that she had that great feud with Trish right before she left, and a very short one with Lita right before she left too. They sort of passed the torch to her. Trish is on a whole other level though because she is such a big part of why Mickie got over in the first place.... thus Trish is still the best diva ever.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dagger Dias]

Last reply before I go to bed....

Fair enough.... we can always continue tomorrow.

Candice was never really that good. I idnt like how her wrestling were... and she barely talked on the mic. Nothing special about her in my opinion. Beth is simply better, true. Kelly has not been in matches that revolved around her yet. She only had 1 title watch, but thats it. I hope the best for kelly. But I still think you pu to much faith in her. I woul more likely find that developmental divas would be better.

Candice got really good in 2007 when she had her title run.... of course that changed when she became afraid of getting injured again. I don't put too much faith in Kelly I just see a really great career for her.... I'm not the only one who thinks she has the potential to be the next Trish. Doesn't mean it is guaranteed, but many people see that potential in her. She's got high expectations to live up to, I give her credit for trying.

Maby she did have the biggest pop in smackdown. I would need to go check that out. As for the faces on raw and smackdown, I have no idea, they started that whole draft thing so that time so I have no idea

Actually they started the draft in 2002 or so.... but yes, the 2008 and 2009 drafts have shaken up the rosters more than the old ones put together.

Do you think kelly would be ready that fast? You have to much faith. I would like to see how she goes before I speak such things as her being the next trish stratus.

No, I was talking long term. When she first got there, Trish was in a very similar place to Kelly's now. One of the "model" divas who actually wanted to be there, and started trying to get better. History can repeat itself. Don't get me wrong though, Trish is still the best.

Well, not all of the tooth pick divas have weird stumicks, just some do. There rib cage just pokes out and its just freaky. I usually also check hair. Eyes are hard on tv. And ofvourse I would not complain about well endowed

Oh, that makes sense. I guess I never noticed about the rib cages.

What is with the NOW... mickie has great mic skills. I would say on par with Trish, wich I knw you would disagree on, and I dont see maryse as a threat in mic skills for mickie, or any skills for that matter. Ypu have to much faith in the non wrestling divas. Don't you think that they would need to get some developmental divas to be the future?

Maryse was Divas Champion.... she not a non-wrestling diva. The developmental divas wouldn't be used to "find the future stars" until this group of divas is mostly gone.

I think mickie has more fans then lita. Sure lita is great. But I have noticed many opinions over her on the net. I just cant see it accumulte to her having more fans then mickie. Mickie would do just fine if they build up the divas devision properly first. That would be the first step before having her step into a man storyline.

That's because Lita's fans have quieted down over the years. They still consider her as one of the best. Mickie's got a large fanbase too, just not as large.... and no, the first step to having her do a storyline with the guys would be figuring out who (like Cena) could help keep the fans' interest since they don't like the divas as much. I was actually interested in seeing how that storyline where Mickie dated Cena was going to turn out.

But she has done enough to prove she can hold her own in promos with them.

Not really because many fans treat the divas segments like a commercial break and go do other things until the next segment begins. That would still happen if Mickie were talking, and it wasn't the case with Trish. She's one of the few divas that when she's on the mic the fans listen. Mickie could only dream of that kind of reaction, so Trish is still the best.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

In the first shot in my war against the Smackdown section, I am going to answer the question quite simply:

Mickie James-- The best Diva the WWE has ever seen?

The answer to this question, quite simply, is no. In no way shape or form is Mickie James the best diva the WWE has ever seen. This is not a detraction from Mickie at all. She is a great diva, and has had many memorable feuds, from Trish Stratus to Beth Phoenix to now, with Michelle McCool. However, she is up against some staunch competition. Trish Stratus and Lita represented the Womens division of the WWE at its finest, and whilst Mickie James is arguably the top face and draw of the division currently, she does not have the popularity that Lita and Stratus once held. This is not even mentioning one of the greatest womens champions of all time in the Fabulous Moolah.

But this leads me to the next point. Moolah was Womens champion for 10,170 days. A cool 28 years for her to be the queen of the wrestling world. That is massive, and a large part of her legacy lies in this longevity. What of Stratus and Lita? They both got out of wrestling while they still had a ways to go. Should Mickie truly want to solidify herself as the best diva of all time, she must play her cards right and remain within the wrestling business. There are still many avenues for her to explore in the WWE, and it's not like she isn't popular. Unfortunately, with Nashville knocking at her door, the future on her wrestling career is uncertain, and I suppose time will only tell.

 

[Dagger Dias]

But this leads me to the next point. Moolah was Womens champion for 10,170 days. A cool 28 years for her to be the queen of the wrestling world. That is massive, and a large part of her legacy lies in this longevity. What of Stratus and Lita? They both got out of wrestling while they still had a ways to go. Should Mickie truly want to solidify herself as the best diva of all time, she must play her cards right and remain within the wrestling business. There are still many avenues for her to explore in the WWE, and it's not like she isn't popular. Unfortunately, with Nashville knocking at her door, the future on her wrestling career is uncertain, and I suppose time will only tell.

Yes, Moolah had that insanely long reign.... but that doesn't make her one of the best DIVAS ever.... she was from another time, when there were no divas. I understand the respect she deserves for the 28 year reign, but there was little to no competition and I stand by my statement that she is not a diva because there were no "divas" yet and she is disqualified for that reason.

Trish and Lita, however, I agree with you on. I have been defending them as the best and second best (respectively) in the long back and forth in the thread between me and "K_V_W(A_U_A)". They are the two best divas ever for reasons that I have already gone into 20+ posts worth of detail on. Simply put, Trish is the best diva ever and no one has been able to prove otherwise because she IS. I give "K_V_W(A_U_A)" credit for trying to convince me that Mickie is the best, but she's not because Trish is better than her in every way.

 

[Bernkastel]

I don't think so. In the trish vs mickie fued they were cheering mickie on.

Wait, wasn’t she the heel during that feud? Why would she be getting cheered? As a heel, it would have been her job to try and get the fans to hate her as much as possible, the fact that she received cheers (and she did, several times throughout the course of the feud) meant that she did an awful job at the role she was supposed to play.

Mickie has held the womans division on her back all of these years. It shows you that she has that ability that not all have. I cannot understand why people think other diva's is better. But I guess it is something I will never understand. And I will always have this opinion.

The absurdness of this ridiculous comment legitimately made me laugh out loud.

So according to you, Mickie has single handedly carried the women’s division from 2006 up till now… so I’m guessing you’ve never heard of women like Candice Michelle, Melina, Michelle McCool, Beth Phoenix, or Maryse have you?

Post Trish, the best feud Mickie had was against Lita in 2006. From there, the rest of her feuds have always been outshined by someone else: Candice vs Beth (2007), Maryse vs Michelle (2008), and Melina vs Beth (2008)

Post Lita, Mickie’s best match took place at Judgement Day 2008. The success of that match was not only accredited to her, but to two other women as well.

I don’t know where you got it into your head that Mickie is some kind of one woman show, she’s wasn’t then, and she’s still not now.

To be fair, the women's division works so much differently than the men's,

Actually they are operated the same way, but the Women’s division is operated on a much smaller scale.

Now obviously who Vince favors doesn't speak towards Mickie's talent.

Vince favors the superstars who are most likely to make him the most money; if Vince isn’t favoring Mickie right now, that means that there are more entering women in the division.

The ability to make the fans care about their matches to the point where they’ll invest their time and money into seeing them is directly connected to a superstars (Mickie James’s) talent.

Alll of this was possible because they actually have storylines back then. Thy actually ut effort into storylines witch made it interesting. You can't entertain people if you dont have storylines. Mickie does a great ob wrestlin and acting out storylines. It's just that WWE doesn't give the divas division much storylines untill about a few weeks ago. Trish selled because she was in tons of sotrylines that showed her skills while mickie was only in a few.

You weren’t a member when I explained all this a few months ago so I’ll cut you some slack and explain it to you now.

The lack of feuds and storyline in the women’s division is the direct result of two things: the sudden loss of both Trish and Lita, the two biggest draws in women’s wrestling in the past 20 years, and the lack of big stars to fill the gapping voids they left.

With those two gone the division was left on life support (and it still hasn’t completely recovered, and probably won’t for several more years.) Mickie James, despite receiving the rub from both Trish and Lita before they left, proved herself to be no more popular or entertaining than any of the other girls around at that time.

The WWE had to gradually rebuild the division one layer at a time, if Mickie was capable of just filling Lita’s shoes (let alone Trish’s) then the division would have rebuilt itself much faster and by comparison would be much larger and successful today.

The facts that the division never repaired itself any quicker, Mickie rose in prominence and popularity along with several other divas at the same time, and even her best feuds and storylines were all overshadowed by someone else’s work every year tells me two things:

1. Mickie proved herself incapable of filling the voids left by both Trish and Lita

2. Mickie has no more or less popularity today than any of the other ‘big names’ in the division, nor has she over the past 3 years.

Ok, I have to agree with you here. But to entertain people it would be best to have a veriaty of moves so people won't find you repetative.

The moves wrestlers do are merely extensions of the characters that they play. The moves themselves are not designed to catch and hold the audience’s attention, but rather it’s the story and portrayal they create with the actual match that holds the audiences interest.

Moves are just another type of tool used by a wrestler/ entertainer to put on a match, just like psychology and selling are as well.

Hahahaha... I just ment that they have downgraded her moveset allot. She had allot of moves before. And now she only use some of them. And she is also being held back because the womans devision is being held back. They do not have as much storylines as before for the womans devision.

Mickie doesn’t need to perform a bunch of moves in order to put on a good match, in fact, the more moves she tries to cram into each spot, the more diluted and less meaningful the match becomes

I don't see where you are coming from witht this. For me she has already shown that she can do the job right. It's just that wwe isnt doing anything with that.

I’ve already explained this

The WWE had to gradually rebuild the division one layer at a time, if Mickie was capable of just filling Lita’s shoes (let alone Trish’s) then the division would have rebuilt itself much faster and by comparison would be much larger and successful today.

The facts that the division never repaired itself any quicker, Mickie rose in prominence and popularity along with several other divas at the same time, and even her best feuds and storylines were all overshadowed by someone else’s work every year tells me two things:

1. Mickie proved herself incapable of filling the voids left by both Trish and Lita

2. Mickie has no more or less popularity today than any of the other ‘big names’ in the division, nor has she over the past 3 years.

In my opinion, Mickie, along with many of the other divas in the division, have all yet to reach their primes. It’s difficult to say whose the absolute best amongst the post Trish/ Lita generation of divas because so many of them have had mirrored careers and popularity throughout the past few years.

hahahhaa... I didn't mean it in that way. sorry if that confused u. It's just one of the reasons why I think she is the greatest Diva ever

Trish and Lita gave many others the same rub that Mickie received (Candice, Beth, Melina) so that fact doesn’t make her special.

Again, you cannot entertain someone if there are no effort of a storyline. Right now you can already see that they are really entertained because of this whole piggy james thing... If Trish started wrestling now in this period unknown but with the wrestling skills she has. I don't think she would be entertaining at all. But that is because the WWE does not care anymore.

I’ve already explained the issue over the lack of storylines.

The WWE doesn’t care anymore? How so? I think they’ve done a great job rebuilding the division as a whole. As bad as the division was 3 years ago, they really should have scraped the entire thing.

Trish was overrated because she was not really that entertaining as a wrestler itself. She got all those cheers because she was in actual storylines that made it interesting. She also had the other wrestlers that could wrestle well 2 that avoided botches.

You need to understand that the amount of moves a wrestler performs does not equal quality, and that wrestler and entertainer are the same thing.

When someone refers to wrestler and pro wrestling, they really mean actor and entertainment.

You unknowingly proved Trish to not be overrated with your comment

She got all those cheers because she was in actual storylines that made it interesting

The audiences responded so greatly to Trish because of the matches she put on, they weren’t interested in how many moves she could do, but of the emotion generated by the match itself.

They were interested in the story she told through her matches and promos, and it was her ability as a showman that drew the audience’s attention.

Because of her success as a showman, creative booked her additional storyline and angles with led to additional title reigns and screen time with major superstars such as HHH, Jericho, Kane, and The Rock.

Trish was the greatest wrestler/ entertainer the women’s division has ever known, she was so good at her job that she was even able to women that had no clue what they were doing look passable. When the WWE paired her with Lita, a wrestler almost as good as she was, the result was the greatest feud in the history of the division.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Fair enough.... we can always continue tomorrow.

I was so freaking tired.... And look at all this new comments that I have to reply to :S.... Lets get back to work

Candice got really good in 2007 when she had her title run.... of course that changed when she became afraid of getting injured again. I don't put too much faith in Kelly I just see a really great career for her.... I'm not the only one who thinks she has the potential to be the next Trish. Doesn't mean it is guaranteed, but many people see that potential in her. She's got high expectations to live up to, I give her credit for trying.

Yes, she does deserve credit for trying. But for now I can't see anything good in her and she would have to show much more for me to believe something like that. So it is just a matter of time before I would start saying somthing like that. Did you really find Candice that entertaining? I could not help but use the bathroom for all the matches she was in. It was boring ans I do not understand why people actually liked her. She did get a huge push, wich is why I think it seemed interesting. But even then I remember her having less of a cheer then mickie.

Actually they started the draft in 2002 or so.... but yes, the 2008 and 2009 drafts have shaken up the rosters more than the old ones put together.

Well, they hadn't drafted in quite some time, so when they finally started again, I got all confused who went where and when.

No, I was talking long term. When she first got there, Trish was in a very similar place to Kelly's now. One of the "model" divas who actually wanted to be there, and started trying to get better. History can repeat itself. Don't get me wrong though, Trish is still the best.

We will see if history repeats itself. I still see less talent in kelly, so idk. I might get surprised.

Oh, that makes sense. I guess I never noticed about the rib cages.

I usually observe really well. Don't want to get a freak out after you make the move, brings extra comlications. Hahahaha

Maryse was Divas Champion.... she not a non-wrestling diva. The developmental divas wouldn't be used to "find the future stars" until this group of divas is mostly gone.

I see, guess this crop of divas have to leave. But they need to bring some that know what they are doing, since you dont want the devision to drop when the big ones leave again.

That's because Lita's fans have quieted down over the years. They still consider her as one of the best. Mickie's got a large fanbase too, just not as large.... and no, the first step to having her do a storyline with the guys would be figuring out who (like Cena) could help keep the fans' interest since they don't like the divas as much. I was actually interested in seeing how that storyline where Mickie dated Cena was going to turn out.

Well idk about lita's fanbase. They have been quiet. For me it just seems that mickie has a bigger one. I was also interested where they were going to go witht that one. Wonder why they stopped.

Not really because many fans treat the divas segments like a commercial break and go do other things until the next segment begins. That would still happen if Mickie were talking, and it wasn't the case with Trish. She's one of the few divas that when she's on the mic the fans listen. Mickie could only dream of that kind of reaction, so Trish is still the best.

I dont see how u would know that the segemts would be bathroom breaks. They are to short for that. They usually treat the matches as bathrooms breaks. segments would be impossible if ou consider the time. And even still, they usually never have segments, just matches. And when they have segments with mickie in it, I would remember lots of people making comments about that on it. So i would not say that it would be a bathroom break.

Yes, Moolah had that insanely long reign.... but that doesn't make her one of the best DIVAS ever.... she was from another time, when there were no divas. I understand the respect she deserves for the 28 year reign, but there was little to no competition and I stand by my statement that she is not a diva because there were no "divas" yet and she is disqualified for that reason.

Trish and Lita, however, I agree with you on. I have been defending them as the best and second best (respectively) in the long back and forth in the thread between me and "K_V_W(A_U_A)". They are the two best divas ever for reasons that I have already gone into 20+ posts worth of detail on. Simply put, Trish is the best diva ever and no one has been able to prove otherwise because she IS. I give "K_V_W(A_U_A)" credit for trying to convince me that Mickie is the best, but she's not because Trish is better than her in every way.

I agree. Even though Moolah did a great job paving the way, there was no competition so its not really fair to say that she held the title for so long because she was great. I am not saying she is not, she was really important to the devision, but it was not like she was the best.
And I also agree that trish and lita are one of the best ever. But in my opinion, not the best ever. that goes to mickie james. She has proven to me that she can do anything and everything the past wrestlers did to keep that devision going and has kept me interested in her for all these years! And thanks for the credit, I appreciate it. Give you credit 2 for trying to convince me, but as you can see, I am far away from that!