Mickie James-- The best Diva the WWE has ever seen?

[maar130]

Well, for me the two Best were Trish and Lita, with Lita being my favorite and I will elaborate into that in a few moments. Yes Mickie is one of if not the best the WWE has at the moment, but is not the best ever by far, sorry but that is a reality most people needs to face and will tell you more in this post.

I am not talking Chyna on account eventhough she is a former 2 times Women's Champion herself, she was different and became the same monster she fought since the begining of her WWF tenure. Yes she was someone who break a barrier and showed that females coud be and show that women could hang as performers ans maes could do but It was said that Most guys didn't want to work with her or mostly sell or job to her later, now that also being a reson why she came to face girls on the women's division, which she pretty much demolished, she didn't want to sell to them or job to them at all, not even to Lita, eventhough she was the hottest (and By that I mean the most popular) Female Performer on the WWE at the time and at the time they met, she refused to job to her and before they could face again she quit the WWE with a buch of stories that were phony just to save face, ao dfor me eventhough Chyna was of women success in the WWE, she was in no way part of the Women's division success at all.

Like I said before, Lita for me was the best there was and well I can even see an argument about Trish being number one and I can accept it, for me Lita brought up somethig new to the table when it came to moves and ways of seen women in the WWE, at the time you had a nice roster of Female wrestlers that really never took to much on account, but that as soon as Lita appeared, they started to take on account. Lita's first match in the WWE (if my me mory serves well and alcohol have not kill most of my brain cells) was a One on One against Women's Champion Jackie at Smackdown, she was still ballet of Essa Rios (Mr. Aguila), eventually she lost but she tried aerial moves that now are imitated by alot of girls and some that some of todays divas (and yes we are talking her only about divas, no Knockouts since they are a whole different monter) can just dream of performing. The thing with Lita at the time is that she duplicated Essa's moves every time after his matches. After her match with Jackie, WWE started an angle to put Lita with the Hardys and they formed one of the most popular Groups on WWE, Team Extreme. After that it just took of, yes like someone said before she and Trish had a lot of good dancing partners but they always brought it up to every girl there and gave their all, even when they battled against men they gave everything they could. Lita is the performer with most Main Events appearances on Monday night Raw and one of the only two Divas involved in a cage match, the first woman to had also a Hardcore Match againts anyone on Raw (Thris and Victora were the first at PPV) and the woman with most and the only woman that Won Her two main events Championship opportunities on Raw, Defeaing Stephanie MacMahon and Trish Stratus.

Lita was not the woman with the best in ring technique, that is true, but she could get the job done and was a great story teller. She knew when to hit the right spots and how to made crowd go up, as face or heel, she got injured in a mayor way only in the ring in her whole WWE career (the first one was on the Set of a TV show with someone not prepared to do what was needed, it was mayor, the worst but it was not performing in the ring) and while she was became a great manager for Edge and became a big part of his success not only because of the storyline involving the two of them but the way she portrait the part of manager outside the ring, then comming back and putting people like Trish (on Trish's last match) and Mickie (on her last match) over.

Even when her popularity was t is peak, she never refused to put someone over, from Jackie on Sunday Night Heat, to the debut of super hero Mighty Molly, to Trish Stratus first Defense ever, to Victoria on PPV, to Molly to Even Candice Michelle (not completely clean but at this time Candice could not even run to the ropes).

Lita used moves that a lot of girls now and even back then tried to imitate like the Head Scissors, At the time Lita was the only on using it, now is the first move all divas learn, but still none can do like Lita, and None of the divas today, not even James or Kim can do the Diving Huracanrrana like Lita did.

Also, on her last PPV matches Lita did what need to be done to put people over like Hell, Trish over in Trish's farewell match and Mickie on her very last WWE match.


With Trish it was that even if she only entered like an eye candy, she learned how to wrestle and she became a very good performer over time, having very memorable matches and some very nasty ones. She was given the ball and she ran with it.

Mickie was fortunate enough to be given a nice character in the "psycho fan" but after that, she became a face and eventhough she was good as face, and truth be told Lita gave her the ultimate push on her way out, since then Mickie was good but as time passed, she has become to confortable with the new set of Divas that can wrestler from little to Zero. That is also why she is not the best of all time, If she wrestles someone who has zero to no avility she seems to get also to that level, when in the past, she put an effort no matter what. After Lita and Trish, the WWE turned their heads and even when they had a nice combo of Katie-Mickie-Beth, they decided that the division was not worth as much, During that time you could see the divas being part of the main event every now and then, now tell me really if you could picture any of them as the Main event of Raw, not by a long shot, not even if it is a Mickie VS Beth Hardcore match.

Lita bothched a few moves every now an then, but tell me how may times has Mickie not botched a move at least one on her matches?

Thing is that now in Smackdown she seems to started picking up again but her last stints on Raw were really bad.

So can she be the best of all time before she retires? probably, is she now? nope. Look I actually like Mickie a lot, I don't give a crap about what they say on her weight issues since I thing she is pretty hot herself, that is not the issue, the thing is that she has become uninspired before going to Smackdown and as of righ now, Melina was the one face that started picked up, unfortunatelly, she got injured, so now is the time for Mickie to pick up her game again, twist her character a little and try to focus on her opportunity areas like check the moves she ususally botches and why is that.

Her match with Gail Kim sucked, but to be fair Gail Kim looked unfocus herself, and apparently got Knocked out before Mickie tried the Jumping DDT or her Kick that turned out to be an Forearm of Doom, since they screwed up, Mickie stood there waiting for Gail to get up, but she never got up, that was why if you look at it Mickie got frustrated (agreed that she didn't had to showed on camera), because when yuo screw up you try another way to end the match, but since Gail never came up, she got frustrated that it will had to en with that forearm and it made the match looked worse than it was already.

And sorry, but for the whoever said that Mickie is botching a basic move like a DDT, the fact is that the DDT she uses is not a basic one and needs help from her counter part, The Elevated Swinging DDT she uses requires the opponent to elevate the applier and hold him/her until he/she applies the swing and hits the move, therefore if it looks bad it could be one of two things, either the applier didn't jum correctly, or the victim culd not hold the applier and everything goes down faster and look bad, which was pretty much the case on that match, again not blamming Gail, but she could not hold (probably shaken for the toprope move Mickie performed earlier in whic her head seems to fall too quicky) Mickie and if you look at it, Mickie jumped the right way.

So Mickie is good, need to go back to what she was before allowing herself to get to confy with the lack of Female wrestlers there and be inspired again and then we can see if she can get in the top 3, but right now she might not even be the best female wrestler of the company.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Yeah. I expect Beth to turn face soon and I can't wait to see if a feud between her and Michelle will happen.

I would like to see a fued between them 2.But I just feel if they are going to put a personal matter on tv, it should end with mickie winning that title after pushing problems into her face. It's a total disrespect to her if she does not win it from mccool in my eyes

Kelly was ready for the Divas Championship a long time ago. It is a less prestigious belt. They have people win the less important belts first to establish credibility and see what it is like with them as champion. Think of her winning the Divas title before the Womens title as similar to a male winning the US title before the World or WWE titles. She's not ready for the Womens Championship but she is definitely ready for the Divas Championship.

But can you really compare the divas title to the US title.... they have 2 titles for the 2 brands and to give the divas on raw and smackdown a reason to fight. The divas ttle is suppose to be as prestigueos as the womans title. Ofcourse it is not the same YET... they need to build it up. But putting it on kelly when she is not really that good is not going to help the title. I want the divas title to be as prestigious as the womans. Ofcourse idk what wwe is going to do with it.

I disagree there. Mickie is good and that's why her being the second to hold both belts makes sense. However, Michelle was the better option to be the first to have held both titles as well as be the first Divas Champion. Trish was not there anymore and Michelle was their next best option. I don't think Mickie would have deserved that even if she is one of the best.

I don't see how you think that she doesnt deserve it. Is it because you dont want her to have many special facts that would give her more reasons why she might be better then trish?... Its just a question... u r going to have to explain this to me. As for michelle, no, she does not deserve it as much as mickie. She is not the most over diva and was never a great face. As heel she never can draw heat. her wrestling skills are ok but not good. And dont make me talk about her mic skills... She has to many flaws to actually have deserved that special fact.

The faces don't always win though, Michelle won the feud and that DOES mean it ended properly. I disagree with ends of feuds when the person I like doesn't win too, sometimes that happens. I understand that Mickie "should" have won, she's the face. Michelle winning gets her more heel heat. Makes perfect sense to me.

This would make sense in a normal fuedwith no backround to it. Brining real life issues to tv is different... already talked about it above

Yes and no. They were better than her when she first started. She was like Kelly. (Yeah, this again.) Trish was just another pretty face, but had that "it" factor needed to become a star, like Kelly right now. She made the effort to become the best, and she went way beyond anyone's expectations. In the end she was better than the entire division.

even though she got really good in the end of her career, I would not count her the best in all things... Ofcourse her mic skills were better then the others. But her wrestling skills were ever the best and in my opinion depended on how the others did as well. You need both to be able to wreslte good to look good. And she was lucky to have those wrestlers. When she wrestles with the non wrestlers I can't jut help to see her flaws in wrestling. I just think that mickie has just better wrestling skills and mic skills then she does. WIch would be one of the many reasons why I think mickie is the best diva ever.

No problem. I wondered what happened to you and thought I had won our battle. Happy holidays back to you.

Sorry I took so long again.I finally came back from vacation and so we can start discussing more frequently again... Hope u didnt miss me
And I do not give up. I just can't stand loosing...
Btw, happy new year

 

[Dagger Dias]

I would like to see a fued between them 2.But I just feel if they are going to put a personal matter on tv, it should end with mickie winning that title after pushing problems into her face. It's a total disrespect to her if she does not win it from mccool in my eyes

That's not always how it works. You wanting Mickie to win because it's "disrespectful" if she doesn't, is a perfect example of why the Piggie James stuff works. It makes you want the face to win, and you'll be mad if she doesn't. Basics of heel/face storylines right there.

But can you really compare the divas title to the US title.... they have 2 titles for the 2 brands and to give the divas on raw and smackdown a reason to fight. The divas ttle is suppose to be as prestigueos as the womans title. Ofcourse it is not the same YET... they need to build it up. But putting it on kelly when she is not really that good is not going to help the title. I want the divas title to be as prestigious as the womans. Ofcourse idk what wwe is going to do with it.

Why don't you think Kelly is good? Having her win her first title would be a great moment and it would inspire her to continue to improve, and it would be something new, and much more entertaining than another pointless reign for Mickie who doesn't deserve to beat Trish's record. No one does.... and the Divas Championship might never be as prestigious as the Womens Championship.... and that's coming from someone who actually likes the Divas Championship.

I don't see how you think that she doesnt deserve it. Is it because you dont want her to have many special facts that would give her more reasons why she might be better then trish?... Its just a question... u r going to have to explain this to me.

Trish is the best diva ever and deserves to have her record remain unbroken. Mickie doesn't deserve to break it because she isn't as good, it's as simple as that.

As for michelle, no, she does not deserve it as much as mickie. She is not the most over diva and was never a great face. As heel she never can draw heat. her wrestling skills are ok but not good. And dont make me talk about her mic skills... She has to many flaws to actually have deserved that special fact.

Michelle wasn't a great face? What are you talking about? Michelle was getting louder cheers then even Mickie before the heel turn in summer of 08. She does draw heel heat. Even from you. Her ability to draw heel heat is one of the things she excels at right now. Her wrestling skills are great compared to most of the divas. Her mic skills are improving, I'll agree she could use more improvement but she's getting better. She is good enough that the few little flaws she has have been ignored and she is the top diva at the moment.

even though she got really good in the end of her career, I would not count her the best in all things... Ofcourse her mic skills were better then the others. But her wrestling skills were ever the best and in my opinion depended on how the others did as well. You need both to be able to wreslte good to look good. And she was lucky to have those wrestlers. When she wrestles with the non wrestlers I can't jut help to see her flaws in wrestling. I just think that mickie has just better wrestling skills and mic skills then she does. WIch would be one of the many reasons why I think mickie is the best diva ever.

Not true. First of all.... Trish is better than Mickie in every single category. There is not even one thing Mickie can claim she's great at that Trish isn't better than her in. Nothing. Secondly.... it is more important for one wrestler to be talented rather than to be able to have someone talented to work with. Trish could be wrestling someone in their first match and she'd still make it look great because of how great SHE was.

Sorry I took so long again.I finally came back from vacation and so we can start discussing more frequently again... Hope u didnt miss me
And I do not give up. I just can't stand loosing...
Btw, happy new year

Yeah, you really don't give up do you? lol

You've still got a lot of work to do if you want to convince me that Mickie is the best because Trish outranks her everywhere, while Beth is better than her too, and Michelle will soon too at the rate she's been improving. Mickie is NOT the best because if she was she'd easily outrank the others in the ways that Trish outranks HER.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

That's not always how it works. You wanting Mickie to win because it's "disrespectful" if she doesn't, is a perfect example of why the Piggie James stuff works. It makes you want the face to win, and you'll be mad if she doesn't. Basics of heel/face storylines right there.

You are missing the point. They have put a personal issue into real life. It is just disrespectful. If there was no personal issue with it I would still be into the fued and I would still want mickie to win. With no personal issue I would have been ok with beth coming into the picture. But it IS a personal issue! Mickie needs to win the title from michelle!

Why don't you think Kelly is good? Having her win her first title would be a great moment and it would inspire her to continue to improve, and it would be something new, and much more entertaining than another pointless reign for Mickie who doesn't deserve to beat Trish's record. No one does.... and the Divas Championship might never be as prestigious as the Womens Championship.... and that's coming from someone who actually likes the Divas Championship.

Kelly has not been properly build up. I can't remember a time when she has done a promo. Her wrestling skills are not great, I would not even consider them good. I have not seen her prove herself that she can be something like trish at all. It is just an assumption after all. I see nothing in her that I would say, she might have something.
Mickie does deserve to beat trish record. She has bean working her ass off to get as far as she is now. She has been wrestling for more then 11 years now and have pulled great matches in her career. She has gone true lots of ups and downs with the womans devision but still made it work. She has been getting all the cheers and the loudest from anyone in the roster since she has been in the wwe as a face. She can play characters well. Best mic skills I have ever seen. There is so much more I can mention. Mickie is worthy and SHOULD beat Trish is reign. Mickie is just simply the best diva to ever grace the wwe ring in my opinion. And I can't change my opinion with whta you all have been trying to convince me otherwise.

Trish is the best diva ever and deserves to have her record remain unbroken. Mickie doesn't deserve to break it because she isn't as good, it's as simple as that.

Read above

Michelle wasn't a great face? What are you talking about? Michelle was getting louder cheers then even Mickie before the heel turn in summer of 08. She does draw heel heat. Even from you. Her ability to draw heel heat is one of the things she excels at right now. Her wrestling skills are great compared to most of the divas. Her mic skills are improving, I'll agree she could use more improvement but she's getting better. She is good enough that the few little flaws she has have been ignored and she is the top diva at the moment.

No, michelle has never gotten louder cheers then mickie. Believe me, I have checked that out. I would always compare the cheers some divas got just to check how popular everyone has been doing. She was a boring face and allot of times she would get still crowds that cared less. As a heel its the same thing. The crowd is just quiet. She did not deserve it! Her mic skills are imporving but are still not good. Take this weeks episode for instance, her expression dont make sense in my opinion. She is the top heel, but not the top diva at the moment.

Not true. First of all.... Trish is better than Mickie in every single category. There is not even one thing Mickie can claim she's great at that Trish isn't better than her in. Nothing. Secondly.... it is more important for one wrestler to be talented rather than to be able to have someone talented to work with. Trish could be wrestling someone in their first match and she'd still make it look great because of how great SHE was.

Read my mickie is best part again.... Trish did not make new wrestlers look great. New wrestlers make themselve look great. When it comes to divas that cant wrestle, trish could do nothing. It had botches or was really boring and stale.

Yeah, you really don't give up do you? lol

You've still got a lot of work to do if you want to convince me that Mickie is the best because Trish outranks her everywhere, while Beth is better than her too, and Michelle will soon too at the rate she's been improving. Mickie is NOT the best because if she was she'd easily outrank the others in the ways that Trish outranks HER.

I don't give up. But it looks like you have that same problem 2.... r u not even a bit tired of discussing this? I am not. Fresh from vk means tons of energy to discuss

Mickie James is the best then any of the names u mention. Beth still has problems drawing heel heat. So does michelle. and I have already talked about trish. Mickie James is simply the best in my eyes. I can't just see why not

 

[Mr. Dejan]

No I don't think she's the best Diva We've ever seen but she is one of THE best divas. Simply because when shes out there she does seem to be getting over with the crowd. Not because she's a face but because her matches are actually interesting. I usually fast forward through most of the Divas matches but I have Never Fast forwarded through one of hers because shes one of the few Divas who can actually wrestle.

 

[Dagger Dias]

You are missing the point. They have put a personal issue into real life. It is just disrespectful.

Heels have won feuds born from real life issues before. Remember Edge and Matt Hardy? Edge more or less won that feud. Matt "should" have gotten a huge main event push in the end.... 5 years later, Edge is a 9 time world champion while Matt is still stuck in the midcard.

If there was no personal issue with it I would still be into the fued and I would still want mickie to win. With no personal issue I would have been ok with beth coming into the picture. But it IS a personal issue! Mickie needs to win the title from michelle!

Mickie doesn't HAVE to win. It's just like the Edge example listed above. Mickie deserving to win the title from Michelle doesn't mean she will win it, if that were the case then Matt Hardy would be main eventing. Michelle defeating Mickie just gives her more heel heat, and it's part of her job to get heel heat. Seems like everything's fine to me.

Kelly has not been properly build up. I can't remember a time when she has done a promo. Her wrestling skills are not great, I would not even consider them good. I have not seen her prove herself that she can be something like trish at all. It is just an assumption after all. I see nothing in her that I would say, she might have something.

I agree, she hasn't been properly built up. That's also why you can't remember her having a good promo. They don't let her talk. I remember a couple of good ones where she seemed determined to become a title contender, but like I said they don't let her talk much and that is why I don't remember how long ago it was. As for her wrestling skills.... take a closer look. She's better than at least half the female roster. If we went by skill alone, she'd make it to the finals with Maryse in Raw's current divas tournament. She's not incredible yet, but when compared to her peers on Raw she's REALLY good. You're comparing her to the Smackdown divas and the legends, aren't you? That might be the problem.

Mickie does deserve to beat trish record. She has bean working her ass off to get as far as she is now. She has been wrestling for more then 11 years now and have pulled great matches in her career. She has gone true lots of ups and downs with the womans devision but still made it work. She has been getting all the cheers and the loudest from anyone in the roster since she has been in the wwe as a face. She can play characters well. Best mic skills I have ever seen. There is so much more I can mention. Mickie is worthy and SHOULD beat Trish is reign. Mickie is just simply the best diva to ever grace the wwe ring in my opinion. And I can't change my opinion with whta you all have been trying to convince me otherwise.

No she doesn't. For someone to deserve to break Trish's record they would have to be the best ever, because that's what Trish was. Mickie did work her ass off to get to where she was, and she had a few great years.... but she has been getting worse and worse for the past couple of years. She stopped deserving to break Trish's record after the feud with Beth. She has yet to put on a great match since then because she is getting sloppier. Trish never faced this problem, and her epic mic skills will never be dethroned when other divas are compared to her. Trish also got the better face reaction. TRISH is the greatest diva to ever grace the WWE ring, NOT Mickie.

No, michelle has never gotten louder cheers then mickie. Believe me, I have checked that out. I would always compare the cheers some divas got just to check how popular everyone has been doing. She was a boring face and allot of times she would get still crowds that cared less. As a heel its the same thing. The crowd is just quiet. She did not deserve it! Her mic skills are imporving but are still not good. Take this weeks episode for instance, her expression dont make sense in my opinion. She is the top heel, but not the top diva at the moment.

YES SHE DID. Michelle during fall 2007 until summer 2008 was receiving the loudest face reactions any diva has gotten since Trish left. Mickie's were loud when she beat Trish in 06 but they died down over time. A lot. Michelle wasn't boring as a face, she was almost as good as her heel self. Mickie got really boring over time as a face. Michelle IS the top diva. Raw has no champion, and she is the champion on Smackdown. She's also getting pushed harder than any other diva. That makes her the top diva.

Read my mickie is best part again.... Trish did not make new wrestlers look great. New wrestlers make themselve look great. When it comes to divas that cant wrestle, trish could do nothing. It had botches or was really boring and stale.

I think you have it backwards. That sounds an awful lot like Mickie's matches from the past 2 years. Trish never had a bad match.

I don't give up. But it looks like you have that same problem 2.... r u not even a bit tired of discussing this? I am not. Fresh from vk means tons of energy to discuss

Nope. I debate relentlessly until my opponent gives me something I can't argue against. It's one of the things I'm known for around here. Keep trying though.

Mickie James is the best then any of the names u mention. Beth still has problems drawing heel heat. So does michelle. and I have already talked about trish. Mickie James is simply the best in my eyes. I can't just see why not

Beth has no problem drawing heel heat, Michelle is just better at it. Her stuck up character is more evil than Beth's monster heel was. Both of them are great at getting heel heat though. Mickie got boring while Beth and Michelle have both kept on improving, if anyone is ever going to dethrone Trish it will be one of those two, not Mickie. If Mickie was so great she would never have gotten boring or sloppy in the ring.

Mickie's not the best, Trish is. The best Mickie could ever hope for is to make the top 3, she's not good enough to outrank Lita, let alone Trish.... and that's the bottom line because Dagger Dias said so!

 

[JayBriscoe2010]

No way Jose...She is in my top 5 though and my current favorite. Trish Stratus gets the #1 accolades from me. Mickie is awesome and piggie? Uh I dont think so Michelle McBone. I think she's at least in the top 3 of current Diva Wrestlers along with Beth and Gail Kim. I dont know wtf she doesent have the Diva's Championship now to be honest, ah that's right she aint boning the Dead Man.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Heels have won feuds born from real life issues before. Remember Edge and Matt Hardy? Edge more or less won that feud. Matt "should" have gotten a huge main event push in the end.... 5 years later, Edge is a 9 time world champion while Matt is still stuck in the midcard.
Mickie doesn't HAVE to win. It's just like the Edge example listed above. Mickie deserving to win the title from Michelle doesn't mean she will win it, if that were the case then Matt Hardy would be main eventing. Michelle defeating Mickie just gives her more heel heat, and it's part of her job to get heel heat. Seems like everything's fine to me.

It does not change the fact how disrispectful it is to the superstar/diva. With this storyline it just pisses me off that they are pushing the fat jokes on mickie, being simple disrespectfull, and not giving her the title or all her trouble. Ofcourse I can understand that it will give michelle heel heat, wich she needed I must add, but the should have done it with more respect and not bring personal issues in it. It is just my opinion... They should never bring personal issues on tv... with the matt and edge I have the same opinion.

I agree, she hasn't been properly built up. That's also why you can't remember her having a good promo. They don't let her talk. I remember a couple of good ones where she seemed determined to become a title contender, but like I said they don't let her talk much and that is why I don't remember how long ago it was. As for her wrestling skills.... take a closer look. She's better than at least half the female roster. If we went by skill alone, she'd make it to the finals with Maryse in Raw's current divas tournament. She's not incredible yet, but when compared to her peers on Raw she's REALLY good. You're comparing her to the Smackdown divas and the legends, aren't you? That might be the problem.

I had to laugh at the the comparing part... lol... Yes, she is nothng compared to the legends and smackdown divas. But even compared to the RAW diva's... there are more deserving divas then kelly. We have Maryse and Jillian and Gail Kim and I am not sure where Katie Lea is but I have a feeling she will be put into this tournemant. Kelly is as deserving as Alicia Fox, and it looks more like they would push Alicia then kelly. I just don't see her being push as anything like a trish stratus. Her wrestling skills are average I guess for a raw diva... But I can only say she is better then the belle twins. She is still one of the not so talented divas and so does not deserve the title in my eyes.

No she doesn't. For someone to deserve to break Trish's record they would have to be the best ever, because that's what Trish was. Mickie did work her ass off to get to where she was, and she had a few great years.... but she has been getting worse and worse for the past couple of years. She stopped deserving to break Trish's record after the feud with Beth. She has yet to put on a great match since then because she is getting sloppier. Trish never faced this problem, and her epic mic skills will never be dethroned when other divas are compared to her. Trish also got the better face reaction. TRISH is the greatest diva to ever grace the WWE ring, NOT Mickie.

I would never say that trish didnt get sloppy. She was sloppy just like the current top divas are sloppy because of the same reason, The non wrestling divas. I found her sloppy everytime she faced on. I remeber her versus Ashley... Thank god mickie interfered. Her and candice... again, thank god mickie interfered. I am sure there are more sloppy maches that I can't remember because mickie didnt interfered ... The point is your trish stratus is my mickie james and in my eyes mickie is the best. So in my eyes she would deserve to break Trish's record. In my eyes Mickie James is the greatest diva ever... And not Trish

YES SHE DID. Michelle during fall 2007 until summer 2008 was receiving the loudest face reactions any diva has gotten since Trish left. Mickie's were loud when she beat Trish in 06 but they died down over time. A lot. Michelle wasn't boring as a face, she was almost as good as her heel self. Mickie got really boring over time as a face. Michelle IS the top diva. Raw has no champion, and she is the champion on Smackdown. She's also getting pushed harder than any other diva. That makes her the top diva.

I would admit if I was wrong, but I am sure Mickie had the biggest reaction. I love to compare the reactions, and It was always Mickie with the best reacion. Michelle was boring in my eyes as the face. Michelle is hard for me to be a favorite with her thoigh so that might have kept me from liking her. But still I never saw a time where she had a louder pop. As a heel she has been doing a good job, but she has never been bood much... only when she turned heel for a few weeks and till recently. She is not really consistent. She might hae the womans title, but since she barely wrestles, I would not call her the top diva right now.

I think you have it backwards. That sounds an awful lot like Mickie's matches from the past 2 years. Trish never had a bad match.

I always found mikie matches exiting... Can't say the same for Trish's matches. But that has to do more with fandom. It influences my opinion. We will nver agree here.

Nope. I debate relentlessly until my opponent gives me something I can't argue against. It's one of the things I'm known for around here. Keep trying though.

I think I have the same thing. But I don't think we will ever agree here... It's been going on for a long time now...

Beth has no problem drawing heel heat, Michelle is just better at it. Her stuck up character is more evil than Beth's monster heel was. Both of them are great at getting heel heat though. Mickie got boring while Beth and Michelle have both kept on improving, if anyone is ever going to dethrone Trish it will be one of those two, not Mickie. If Mickie was so great she would never have gotten boring or sloppy in the ring.

If they areso good getting heel heat, then they would be bood everytime they would walk out of the ring. They have not been booed untill recently... If they were so good at drawing heel heat they would have never stopped booing them... I would not say beth is improving. I will say she has been consistent everytime. Michelle has been imporving her heel character. But still has much work to do, starting with her mic skills. I just wished she wrestled more instead of being in the sidelines. I would not call mickie boring, I have been exited seeing her everytime on tv. And I dont think that beth or michelle can dethrone anyone just because they have been heel mos of the time.

Mickie's not the best, Trish is. The best Mickie could ever hope for is to make the top 3, she's not good enough to outrank Lita, let alone Trish.... and that's the bottom line because Dagger Dias said so!

Mickie is already top in my eyes. She has proved to me that she already better then lita and trish. Now you can always say that its the bottom line cause u said so. But in the end that has no influence on my opinion. My opinion over this subject is harder then rock and no bottom line from anyone else on this world can break this.

 

[Dagger Dias]

It does not change the fact how disrispectful it is to the superstar/diva. With this storyline it just pisses me off that they are pushing the fat jokes on mickie, being simple disrespectfull, and not giving her the title or all her trouble. Ofcourse I can understand that it will give michelle heel heat, wich she needed I must add, but the should have done it with more respect and not bring personal issues in it. It is just my opinion... They should never bring personal issues on tv... with the matt and edge I have the same opinion.

You see the point though? You're SUPPOSED to get angry at the heels for the personal attacks in the storylines. It's a good way for them to get heel heat when you aren't meant to like them in the first place.

I had to laugh at the the comparing part... lol... Yes, she is nothng compared to the legends and smackdown divas. But even compared to the RAW diva's... there are more deserving divas then kelly. We have Maryse and Jillian and Gail Kim and I am not sure where Katie Lea is but I have a feeling she will be put into this tournemant. Kelly is as deserving as Alicia Fox, and it looks more like they would push Alicia then kelly. I just don't see her being push as anything like a trish stratus. Her wrestling skills are average I guess for a raw diva... But I can only say she is better then the belle twins. She is still one of the not so talented divas and so does not deserve the title in my eyes.

Maryse is above Kelly, you're right there. After that is where we disagree. Gail Kim is being "punished" by Vince for being in TNA and she's overrated to begin with. Kelly is much more entertaining than her. Alicia Fox? She's terrible and had her chance. Kelly has been improving, unlike her.... and how is Jillian more deserving of a push than Kelly? She's the ultimate diva jobber. Her minute long reign is likely all she will ever get. Whether you like it or not, Kelly is in the top tier of Raw divas with Maryse and Eve. They are the future of the female roster.

I would never say that trish didnt get sloppy. She was sloppy just like the current top divas are sloppy because of the same reason, The non wrestling divas. I found her sloppy everytime she faced on. I remeber her versus Ashley... Thank god mickie interfered. Her and candice... again, thank god mickie interfered. I am sure there are more sloppy maches that I can't remember because mickie didnt interfered ... The point is your trish stratus is my mickie james and in my eyes mickie is the best. So in my eyes she would deserve to break Trish's record. In my eyes Mickie James is the greatest diva ever... And not Trish

Mickie's got the potential to make the top tier, but she's not as good as Trish or Lita. There is no way she could become better than them, and she does not deserve to break Trish's record because she got sloppy and boring. Only the best of all deserves to break Trish's record and that's not Mickie.

I would admit if I was wrong, but I am sure Mickie had the biggest reaction. I love to compare the reactions, and It was always Mickie with the best reacion. Michelle was boring in my eyes as the face. Michelle is hard for me to be a favorite with her thoigh so that might have kept me from liking her. But still I never saw a time where she had a louder pop. As a heel she has been doing a good job, but she has never been bood much... only when she turned heel for a few weeks and till recently. She is not really consistent. She might hae the womans title, but since she barely wrestles, I would not call her the top diva right now.

Mickie didn't have a louder reaction than Michelle. Her cheers had already died down long before Michelle became Smackdown's top diva. Maybe her not getitng booed much has to do with her having a lot of fans who still cheer for her like me? As for her barely wrestling.... she's the champion, she doesn't HAVE to wrestle unless her title is on the line. It makes people more interested when she does step in the ring. How is she not the top diva? She's the only female champion currently, that alone makes her the top diva.

I always found mikie matches exiting... Can't say the same for Trish's matches. But that has to do more with fandom. It influences my opinion. We will nver agree here.

Doesn't look like it, no. I'm going on more than fandom though. Mickie fans think she's the best ever but are never able to convince us that she's better than Trish or Lita because she simply isn't. Doesn't mean Mickie's not great, she's just not the best.

If they areso good getting heel heat, then they would be bood everytime they would walk out of the ring. They have not been booed untill recently... If they were so good at drawing heel heat they would have never stopped booing them... I would not say beth is improving. I will say she has been consistent everytime. Michelle has been imporving her heel character. But still has much work to do, starting with her mic skills. I just wished she wrestled more instead of being in the sidelines. I would not call mickie boring, I have been exited seeing her everytime on tv. And I dont think that beth or michelle can dethrone anyone just because they have been heel mos of the time.

I never said that Beth or Michelle will dethrone Lita or Trish.... what I said was that if anyone was going to, those two would. That doesn't mean I think it will happen. Michelle and Beth are both better than Mickie because they keep improving (I admit they can both improve more) and unlike Mickie they are not getting worse with every week. Look at a Mickie match from 2006, then look at one from 2009. HUGE difference. She's becoming terrible.

Mickie is already top in my eyes. She has proved to me that she already better then lita and trish. Now you can always say that its the bottom line cause u said so. But in the end that has no influence on my opinion. My opinion over this subject is harder then rock and no bottom line from anyone else on this world can break this.

HOW has Mickie become better than Lita or Trish? I find that impossible to believe.... in your next post, please elaborate on that in greater detail. She will NEVER be the greatest ever because she's nowhere near Trish's level.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I never said that Beth or Michelle will dethrone Lita or Trish.... what I said was that if anyone was going to, those two would. That doesn't mean I think it will happen. Michelle and Beth are both better than Mickie because they keep improving (I admit they can both improve more) and unlike Mickie they are not getting worse with every week. Look at a Mickie match from 2006, then look at one from 2009. HUGE difference. She's becoming terrible.

This thread has entertained me thoroughly, but I have to step in here.

There is a reason that Mickie James seems to be getting worse as opposed to Beth and Michelle, and that's because creative are much more focused on the latter two girls. MJ has been a reliable worker for the division for so long that they decided that what Mickie has done to get herself over would be enough to withstand the next (insert time period here) without having to do much.

If you noticed, Michelle has never been much of a prospect to the fans until only recently. When she first came in, no reaction. Repackaged to become the school teacher, little to no reaction. She managed a tag team also. What happened? The tag team never made it. Repackaged again into a face and winning the Diva's title? She was getting there, but still hardly any reaction. Ever since her becoming heel and being a dominant champion with having the help of Layla, she has finally conjured up something to get people to care. Why? Because she is feuding with Mickie James and is being given a huge advantage over her. Watch an episode of SmackDown and I will guarantee that there are pretty solid reactions for Mickie, trumping Michelle's any day of the week.

Beth had no choice but to improve after what happened with the Glamarella storyline on RAW, which ruined her credibility for a while. But, let's go back before hand and see where Beth got her start. Both times, when she originally debuted and injured herself to her second and more successful debut, she attacked Mickie James. Doing so puts a lot of heat on you and gets the crowd going. Throughout the entire time of Beth's career, Mickie has always garnered a much higher reaction, even during spots or notable moves in the match.


Look, I'm not agreeing Mickie is the best of all time because as of this moment Trish Stratus is the best. Her accomplishments and her determination got her there. But, Mickie has a title history nearly tailgating Trish's record and she has always worked hard from the get go. You can see this in how much effort she puts in her matches to make them not suck as much with some of the diva's not being real or good wrestlers to start off with, as well as her charisma. If you noticed, she is the only diva who can ask for the crowd to get up for a reaction and they will respond, on a consistent basis. Michelle plays the perfect heel role, but yet her efforts go almost unnoticed as if she is boring the crowd. Beth doesn't count here because she doesn't perform such acts.

Mickie has played one heck of a heel role and got the people to go against her, as well as being a tweener for an extended period and pulling it off successfully. Sure, Trish aided her along the way, but Mickie was the one making the character. The only instance where she didn't do her job properly was at her WrestleMania 22 match with Stratus (where the crowd was cheering a couple of heels over the face). Since being a face, Mickie has managed to get a reaction, something Michelle did not do at all when she was a face other than being eye candy (and even Mickie won that department).


Calling Mickie James the greatest diva of all time right now is not the best time to do so. It's best to wait until Mickie retires from the sport and give it a couple of years to truly judge how great she was. Why? Well, there is a simple saying for this:

"You don't what you got until its gone."

 

[GeTiTT]

i think that the only thing that is holding mickie james back from being the best diva the wwe has seen is the lack of competition the wwe offers her. i mean trish had lita,ivory, molly, jackie, victoria, jazz, gail kim, mickie, stephanie...

mickie james has had..trish..beth..beth..beth..and beth once again
if the wwe still had divas like they did in the early to mid 2000's no doubt mickie would be the best. but there is noboby to help her up her game

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

You see the point though? You're SUPPOSED to get angry at the heels for the personal attacks in the storylines. It's a good way for them to get heel heat when you aren't meant to like them in the first place.

I know, but it is not suppose to be from personal real issues. And thats how I feel with no doubt. I don't care if it is to build heel heat. It is and always will be disrespectfull to the wrestler.

Maryse is above Kelly, you're right there. After that is where we disagree. Gail Kim is being "punished" by Vince for being in TNA and she's overrated to begin with. Kelly is much more entertaining than her. Alicia Fox? She's terrible and had her chance. Kelly has been improving, unlike her.... and how is Jillian more deserving of a push than Kelly? She's the ultimate diva jobber. Her minute long reign is likely all she will ever get. Whether you like it or not, Kelly is in the top tier of Raw divas with Maryse and Eve. They are the future of the female roster.

It doesn't look like gail i beign punished. Her reaching this far in the tournament is really good for being punished. It looks like wwe rather push her then kelly. I am not saying that kelly is bad, she gets more cheers then gail, but she is just not good in wrestling for her to even hold a title. Jillian is a jobber and all, but in the end she is a better wrestler then her and she was always able to draw heat. I think gail and jillian is better and kely is in the low end with eve and alicia wrestling wise. Ofcourse if we include cheers it will be different, but for a title I think that someone always needs to look at the wrestling b4 anything else.

Mickie's got the potential to make the top tier, but she's not as good as Trish or Lita. There is no way she could become better than them, and she does not deserve to break Trish's record because she got sloppy and boring. Only the best of all deserves to break Trish's record and that's not Mickie.

Mickie didn't have a louder reaction than Michelle. Her cheers had already died down long before Michelle became Smackdown's top diva. Maybe her not getitng booed much has to do with her having a lot of fans who still cheer for her like me? As for her barely wrestling.... she's the champion, she doesn't HAVE to wrestle unless her title is on the line. It makes people more interested when she does step in the ring. How is she not the top diva? She's the only female champion currently, that alone makes her the top diva.

Mickie has never been boring to me, I think you know that I feel that way about her. Mickie has been sloppy only a few times, nothing major and you can't say that no wrestler has ever been sloppy. Not making any excuses though, mickie should not be sloppy. But she has still been able to get the loudest cheers since she has been in the WWE and has been in the biggest storylines ever. She has won the title in 3 occasions that ment more then winning the title 1) beating lita in her retirement match 2) Beating Beth Phoenix in her unstoppable monster heel mode 3) Beating Trish in her phsyco mode. She is now in the most biggest storyline ever for the divas in a long time and doing the best job out of all of them in making the fans get into it. You see that without her, michelle and layla would notbe getting much heel heat at all. If it were not for her, these woman would be ignored week after week. She is what makes the smackdown divas entertaining as it is. Fans don't care much about the others. Her promo tonight shows that she has the best mic skills EVER. I could not help but feel sad for her. This is the first time that I generated so much hate against michelle. No other diva was able to make me feel that way.
I just don't understand how you can feel that she is not the best.


I didn't answer the rest of your comments because I feel that all is written here. Also because I don't have much time to write. I am sorry for leaving the discussion hanging for so long. I hope I can comment back as fast as I can next time. Keep them coming.

And JicKie "FalKon" Mames, I completely agree with you. I could not have said it better then you. I still need to learn how to write what I feel since i mix allot of things up. You do it so perfectly... Love it!

 

[Dagger Dias]

I know, but it is not suppose to be from personal real issues. And thats how I feel with no doubt. I don't care if it is to build heel heat. It is and always will be disrespectfull to the wrestler.

You just proved my point though. It being disrespectful makes casual fans feel sorry for Mickie, and begin rooting for her. If it's so disrespectful, then tell me a good storyline they could do with Mickie that wouldn't be stale. This is the best storyline the divas had had in almost 4 years, which ironically, is when Trish left.

It doesn't look like gail i beign punished. Her reaching this far in the tournament is really good for being punished. It looks like wwe rather push her then kelly.

I really doubt that. Maryse is going to win anyway.

I am not saying that kelly is bad, she gets more cheers then gail, but she is just not good in wrestling for her to even hold a title.

Why? She was good enough this summer when she got her title shot, and is even better now. Kelly is the future of the divas division. She always has been. More people are catching on and noticing.

Jillian is a jobber and all, but in the end she is a better wrestler then her and she was always able to draw heat.

That wasn't heel heat. That was "STOP SINGING!" heat. Being a good wrestler isn't what it's all about though. She wasn't good at other things like promos, and no one took her seriously anymore after she got the bad singer gimmick. Her short title reign was likely all she'll ever win.

I think gail and jillian is better and kely is in the low end with eve and alicia wrestling wise. Ofcourse if we include cheers it will be different, but for a title I think that someone always needs to look at the wrestling b4 anything else.

Kelly and Eve are the ones you like the least? You do realize that they, along with Maryse, are the future of the divas division right? Also.... the gimmick and fan interaction are far more important than in-ring ability. If in-ring ability was the most important part then Shelton Benjamin would have more world titles than Triple H.

Mickie has never been boring to me, I think you know that I feel that way about her. Mickie has been sloppy only a few times, nothing major and you can't say that no wrestler has ever been sloppy. Not making any excuses though, mickie should not be sloppy. But she has still been able to get the loudest cheers since she has been in the WWE and has been in the biggest storylines ever.

I think that Trish and Michelle deserve more than half of the credit for the two good feuds Mickie has been in. She's only getting the cheers she gets because of fans remembering the Trish feud. Without that she would have been about as big of a name in the division (in the long run) as Candice.... and sure, everyone has made mistakes in the ring before and done some moves in a sloppy way, but Mickie is sloppy ALL THE TIME!

She has won the title in 3 occasions that ment more then winning the title 1) beating lita in her retirement match

Not really sure I agree there. It being Lita's last match was a coincidence.

2) Beating Beth Phoenix in her unstoppable monster heel mode

First of all.... that was supposed to be Ashley, not Mickie. So it automatically does not count. Plus, that was the exact same moment that she became stale and sloppy. Has been ever since.

3) Beating Trish in her phsyco mode.

This one I'll agree on. It's the only reason Mickie is as big a name as she is now. Nothing against her, but she's nowhere near being THE best. She's ONE of the best, and that's it.

She is now in the most biggest storyline ever for the divas in a long time and doing the best job out of all of them in making the fans get into it.

Wrong. You HAVE to give credit where it is deserved. Michelle is doing such a fantastic job in this feud that words can't say it. She completely deserves the role of top heel right now. It would be a boring feud without her.

You see that without her, michelle and layla would notbe getting much heel heat at all. If it were not for her, these woman would be ignored week after week.

Wrong again. Well, not about Layla lol she's awful. Michelle, however, is the reason this feud is so great. She's arguably the best heel diva since Lita left. She is making so many people hate her character, and that's what a heel is supposed to do. It's the other way around entirely. If it was any heel other than Michelle (counting the raw heel divas except Maryse) then the feud would be boring because Mickie is still a little stale.

She is what makes the smackdown divas entertaining as it is. Fans don't care much about the others. Her promo tonight shows that she has the best mic skills EVER.

Nope sorry but this is wrong too. She's good, and tonight's promo was awesome.... but the best diva mic skills ever goes to Trish. Her promos were EPIC as far as divas go. No one can even touch her on mic skills.

I could not help but feel sad for her. This is the first time that I generated so much hate against michelle. No other diva was able to make me feel that way.

THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT! You're NOT supposed to like Michelle! That's why she's such an awesome heel! She plays her role of the top heel perfectly, and all she needs is just a little more improvement on the mic.

I just don't understand how you can feel that she is not the best.

Because she's not, Trish is.

I didn't answer the rest of your comments because I feel that all is written here. Also because I don't have much time to write. I am sorry for leaving the discussion hanging for so long. I hope I can comment back as fast as I can next time. Keep them coming

I admire that you have kept going this long, this is the longest any opponent has ever debated with me on here. However, you have yet to prove that Mickie should even be considered as THE best.... when it's no contest because it will always be Trish. She's got 2 legends to beat in Trish and Lita.... as well as Michelle and Beth on the modern roster. Sorry, but Mickie can only hope to make the top tier of female wrestlers. She'll never be THE best.

Keep trying.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

You just proved my point though. It being disrespectful makes casual fans feel sorry for Mickie, and begin rooting for her. If it's so disrespectful, then tell me a good storyline they could do with Mickie that wouldn't be stale. This is the best storyline the divas had had in almost 4 years, which ironically, is when Trish left.

Well, the mickie vs trish storyline was in no way direspectfull to neither divas and was still the fued to remember. They could have done this whole fued without the fat insults. They could have easily picked another theme for this feud. Ofcourse speeches would have done differently, but in the end they wanted mickie to go. Which would have still been with feud and cake and the whole same issue. I agree that it does help fans get into it. But at the same time it is disrespectfull and I just can't stand it.

I really doubt that. Maryse is going to win anyway.

I didn't say that gail was going to win. I think it is more then obvious that maryse will win this thing (unless wwe wants to catch us offguard). I just think that if they really want to build kelly into a believable competitor for the title, they would have let her get far in the tournament.

Why? She was good enough this summer when she got her title shot, and is even better now. Kelly is the future of the divas division. She always has been. More people are catching on and noticing.

That wasn't heel heat. That was "STOP SINGING!" heat. Being a good wrestler isn't what it's all about though. She wasn't good at other things like promos, and no one took her seriously anymore after she got the bad singer gimmick. Her short title reign was likely all she'll ever win.

It's still heat, you just said it yourself. She is ok in promo's. And ofcourse no one is going to take her seriously with that gimmick. It still doesnt change the fact that she is a better wrestler then kelly.

Kelly and Eve are the ones you like the least? You do realize that they, along with Maryse, are the future of the divas division right? Also.... the gimmick and fan interaction are far more important than in-ring ability. If in-ring ability was the most important part then Shelton Benjamin would have more world titles than Triple H.

I see your point. But you do need some in ring ability to carry a division. And kelly and eve just dont have enough. Fans do tend to shut up if a match is boring. And if these 2 are going to suck like they do now, then thats what is going to happen.

I think that Trish and Michelle deserve more than half of the credit for the two good feuds Mickie has been in. She's only getting the cheers she gets because of fans remembering the Trish feud. Without that she would have been about as big of a name in the division (in the long run) as Candice.... and sure, everyone has made mistakes in the ring before and done some moves in a sloppy way, but Mickie is sloppy ALL THE TIME!

At mickie being sloppy all the time = OVERexaggeration.
If it was the rememberence of the mickie vs trish feud, it would have died along time ago. Mickie just has the charisma to have fans support her. And I have 2 stop you at the credit. There is no way that trish and (especially)michelle deserve mmore then half the credit for the fued with mickie. With michelle, she generates no heel reaction when she wals the ramp. No heel reaction when she cut her promo yesterday at the beginning. She would be ignored if it were not for her bashing on mickie. If it were any other face, it would not be the same. Mickie has the fans and the mic/acting skills to make fans feel symphathy. There is NO way that th fans would care if it was anyone else. It is because of mickie. And I have read this millions of times on youtube video, and sites. Mickie definatly deserves more then half of the credit for this feud. With the mickie vs trish feud. At first it was going on trish's fandom, but that was ofcourse because that mickie still needed to make a name for herself since she was not even in the wwe for a year. But after a while, and definatly b4 wrestlemania, she has pulled awsome heel promos and thats because of the intensity of her mic skills and believability. If you are going to start checking out from the beginning, then maby trish does have more credit for the fued. But in the end, mickie did more then getting the fans into it, it was the diva fued of the decade. Mickie deserves half the credit to the least.

Not really sure I agree there. It being Lita's last match was a coincidence.

First of all.... that was supposed to be Ashley, not Mickie. So it automatically does not count. Plus, that was the exact same moment that she became stale and sloppy. Has been ever since.


This one I'll agree on. It's the only reason Mickie is as big a name as she is now. Nothing against her, but she's nowhere near being THE best. She's ONE of the best, and that's it.

No critisims is allowed. It is the past, nothing can change it. It is already part of mickie's history and already one of the reasons to see her as a top diva(and in my opinion best).
And if it really was suppose to be ashley, then why didnt she get it. She was there at the time. If WWE really wanted Ashley to win the title, then they would have put her into the feud and let her win the womans title. But they didn't, they had mickie win the title. I think that says enough.

Wrong. You HAVE to give credit where it is deserved. Michelle is doing such a fantastic job in this feud that words can't say it. She completely deserves the role of top heel right now. It would be a boring feud without her.

No, I am not saying that michelle isnt doing a good job. She is just not doing a better job thne mickie. Like I said b4, without mickie, michelle would not be getting any heel heat. She has been boring as a heel.

Wrong again. Well, not about Layla lol she's awful. Michelle, however, is the reason this feud is so great. She's arguably the best heel diva since Lita left. She is making so many people hate her character, and that's what a heel is supposed to do. It's the other way around entirely. If it was any heel other than Michelle (counting the raw heel divas except Maryse) then the feud would be boring because Mickie is still a little stale.

Hahahah, lol about the layla part. Michelle plays the part well when she doesnt have the mic in her hand, she beats down on mickie well. But that is it. If it were not mickie, it would have been forgotten the following week. I am not saying that michelle isnt the best heel in wwe right now. She is ONLY because there is noone better and she has been in all the storylines. But she is not that good of a heel just because that she would get no reacton when doing some stuff. eg walking down the ramp. And I do not see any staleness in mickie, she has been doing a great job in the fued for far to long.

Nope sorry but this is wrong too. She's good, and tonight's promo was awesome.... but the best diva mic skills ever goes to Trish. Her promos were EPIC as far as divas go. No one can even touch her on mic skills.

I am sorry, but acting out symphathy is in my opinion the most hardest thing to do. And for getting so much symphathy from me and so many others just proves my point that she is the best ever. That speech was epic 2, she did it extremely well and just got the fans really into it. May I add that it is also a speech that is suppose to make people in general think about. A speech with significance.

THANK YOU FOR PROVING MY POINT! You're NOT supposed to like Michelle! That's why she's such an awesome heel! She plays her role of the top heel perfectly, and all she needs is just a little more improvement on the mic.

More then a little imporvement on the mic. SHE GOT NO HEEL HEAT IN THE BEGINNING.... and the only reason I wanted to strangle her so much was because I could not stand seeing mickie that way. It was beyond sad and just really epic. ahhh... I still can't get over the promo. I think I have to see it again after this comment

Because she's not, Trish is.

Mickie James is the best... I do not want to hear it. There is no way my opinion is changing!

I admire that you have kept going this long, this is the longest any opponent has ever debated with me on here. However, you have yet to prove that Mickie should even be considered as THE best.... when it's no contest because it will always be Trish. She's got 2 legends to beat in Trish and Lita.... as well as Michelle and Beth on the modern roster. Sorry, but Mickie can only hope to make the top tier of female wrestlers. She'll never be THE best.

Keep trying.

I do not give up. I hate losing. It will either be you changing opinion, me changing opinion. Or calling it a draw.
Mickie is already the best, there is nothing more to prove. She is a far bettet heel or face then michelle and beth. She has been the best for so long. End of story. Mickie James is the best ever!!!!!

 

[DMBlacklist]

Trish and Lita by far surpass the Divas of today. Trish was your Bret Hart/Triple H of Divas for always having a run with a title and having a sound wrestling game and Lita was in a sense your Shawn Michaels where she had sporatic title wins but awesome matches reguardless of whom she was in the ring with.

These two were the pillars of women's wrestling and made it what it is today or at least, set the bar that few have even come close to reaching. Yes I know Chyna 'started' it all but Lita and Trish became just as popular as the male talent at one point in the company. Once these two retired, admit, women's wrestling has never been the same.

Oh the glory days of Lita, Trish, Chyna, Molly Holly, Victoria, Jazz, the glory days of old are gone for sure though in responce to Mickie James.....she's getting there if she wasn't a Trish 2.0.

 

[krispix]

I'm not quite sure Mickie James is the best Diva the WWE has ever seen; while she IS the best diva of this "generation", we simply haven't seen Mickie (or any of the current WWE Divas) showcased the way Trish and Lita had. Thus, based on what we've seen from Mickie so far in comparison to the Divas heyday of Trish and Lita, we can't call her the best ever.

However, the current storyline including Mickie & Team Lay-cool is simply the BEST Diva's angle we've seen in years. If the current investment and build is any indication of what's to come for the Divas on Smackdown as far as creative material and opportunity, we might just see the very best coming out of Mickie James very soon.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Well, the mickie vs trish storyline was in no way direspectfull to neither divas and was still the fued to remember.

You can thank Trish for that being the storyline to remember. Without Trish, nobody would have cared, and since that feud is what made Mickie the big name she is today, Mickie would be a nobody if it weren't for Trish. Yet another reason why Trish is the best diva.

They could have done this whole fued without the fat insults. They could have easily picked another theme for this feud. Ofcourse speeches would have done differently, but in the end they wanted mickie to go. Which would have still been with feud and cake and the whole same issue. I agree that it does help fans get into it. But at the same time it is disrespectfull and I just can't stand it.

You're once again proving my point. Since you like the faces, WWE is using your hatred of this angle (and others' hatred as well) to get more heel heat for Michelle. You're reacting EXACTLY as they want you to. That's what's so good about it. There has not been an angle as good as this one since Trish and Lita left.

I didn't say that gail was going to win. I think it is more then obvious that maryse will win this thing (unless wwe wants to catch us offguard). I just think that if they really want to build kelly into a believable competitor for the title, they would have let her get far in the tournament.

Not really. The tournament is most likely for Maryse to look stronger. The better Maryse looks, the tougher it will be (kayfabe) for Kelly or Eve to defeat her, which will make either of them getting their first title reign all the more special of a victory.

It's still heat, you just said it yourself. She is ok in promo's. And ofcourse no one is going to take her seriously with that gimmick. It still doesnt change the fact that she is a better wrestler then kelly.

No, there's a difference. True heel heat is when you're booing the wrestler for what they do in their storylines. Any other type of heat (such as when you just want them to shut up or go away) is NOT true heel heat. That's called "Go-Away heat" and it's not acknowledged in the storylines, thus it does not count. Better wrestler or not, Kelly is lightyears ahead of Jillian because Jillian only gets Go-away heat, whereas Kelly gets true cheers. Fan interaction is extremely important, and outranks in-ring ability.

I see your point. But you do need some in ring ability to carry a division. And kelly and eve just dont have enough. Fans do tend to shut up if a match is boring. And if these 2 are going to suck like they do now, then thats what is going to happen.

Kelly and Eve have far more in-ring ability than you give them credit for. More than enough to carry a match and they are both improving.

At mickie being sloppy all the time = OVERexaggeration.

No.... sorry but as R-Truth would say.... "Sometimes the truth hurts. Mickie is sloppy all the time and that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." It is not an over-exaggeration of any kind.

If it was the rememberence of the mickie vs trish feud, it would have died along time ago. Mickie just has the charisma to have fans support her.

You are almost right here, but not quite. Mickie does have charisma, and that's why it's taken as long for it to die down as it has.... but it HAS died down. Slowly for about 3 years.

And I have 2 stop you at the credit. There is no way that trish and (especially)michelle deserve mmore then half the credit for the fued with mickie.

Yes they do because if you had put Mickie in the same exact feud with any other diva, the feuds would have not been memorable. Name me ANY other face diva from 2005 who would have been as good in the stalker angle as Trish. NO ONE. The same goes for heel divas in the Piggy James angle. Layla as the top heel? No thank you. Even if they brought Maryse over from Raw it would still be a terrible angle without Michelle.

Michelle deserves at least 60% of the credit for making Piggie James such a memorable angle because she's such a great top heel. Trish deserves at least 80% of the credit for making the stalker angle so great. She would have made ANY heel diva look like gold in that feud.

With michelle, she generates no heel reaction when she wals the ramp. No heel reaction when she cut her promo yesterday at the beginning. She would be ignored if it were not for her bashing on mickie. If it were any other face, it would not be the same. Mickie has the fans and the mic/acting skills to make fans feel symphathy. There is NO way that th fans would care if it was anyone else. It is because of mickie. And I have read this millions of times on youtube video, and sites. Mickie definatly deserves more then half of the credit for this feud.

Not true. Look at the other faces on Smackdown. Beth's a tweener, so that leaves.... Maria. Of course no one would care much about the angle if Maria was the face. She's awful. Just because Mickie is the only true face who's any good doesn't mean she deserves more than half the credit for the angle. I already explained that earlier. Mickie VS Layla? Who in the world would want to see that? Mickie VS Maryse? Decently interesting, but Michelle is a far superior choice as the villain in this storyline. She is what made it great. Mickie helped, but Michelle has done more.

With the mickie vs trish feud. At first it was going on trish's fandom, but that was ofcourse because that mickie still needed to make a name for herself since she was not even in the wwe for a year. But after a while, and definatly b4 wrestlemania, she has pulled awsome heel promos and thats because of the intensity of her mic skills and believability. If you are going to start checking out from the beginning, then maby trish does have more credit for the fued. But in the end, mickie did more then getting the fans into it, it was the diva fued of the decade. Mickie deserves half the credit to the least.

No she doesn't. She deserves maybe 15% of the credit, no more than 20%. There is no way that the feud would have been even half as good without Trish. There's no face diva from 2005 who could have made Mickie look good in that feud AND gotten the fans to care. Mickie should thank Trish for becoming a big name through that feud.

No critisims is allowed. It is the past, nothing can change it. It is already part of mickie's history and already one of the reasons to see her as a top diva(and in my opinion best).
And if it really was suppose to be ashley, then why didnt she get it. She was there at the time. If WWE really wanted Ashley to win the title, then they would have put her into the feud and let her win the womans title. But they didn't, they had mickie win the title. I think that says enough.

Ashley did not get that title win because she got future endeavored. WWE already knew they had to get rid of Ashley, so they changed it to Mickie at the last minute. Whether it's in Mickie's history or not, a last minute change does not count as a memorable win to me. The only memorable win Mickie has is against Trish.

No, I am not saying that michelle isnt doing a good job. She is just not doing a better job thne mickie. Like I said b4, without mickie, michelle would not be getting any heel heat. She has been boring as a heel.

No she hasn't. Michelle McCool is the best heel diva since Lita. If she's been so boring as a heel then explain how your hatred towards her character doesn't make her a great heel. She's doing her job, and improving every week, I might add.

Hahahah, lol about the layla part. Michelle plays the part well when she doesnt have the mic in her hand, she beats down on mickie well. But that is it. If it were not mickie, it would have been forgotten the following week. I am not saying that michelle isnt the best heel in wwe right now. She is ONLY because there is noone better and she has been in all the storylines. But she is not that good of a heel just because that she would get no reacton when doing some stuff. eg walking down the ramp. And I do not see any staleness in mickie, she has been doing a great job in the fued for far to long.

The only reason she gets little reaction is because no one has liked any of the heel divas since Lita left, not even the fans who tend to like heels such as myself. Melina, for example.... HATED her heel character. Beth as a heel was cool, but I like tweener Beth better. Michelle is the best heel diva since Lita, there is no arguing that.

I am sorry, but acting out symphathy is in my opinion the most hardest thing to do. And for getting so much symphathy from me and so many others just proves my point that she is the best ever. That speech was epic 2, she did it extremely well and just got the fans really into it. May I add that it is also a speech that is suppose to make people in general think about. A speech with significance.

No it doesn't. That just means Mickie is a good face. Trish could have done the same EASILY if she was still around. Mickie might turn a few heads towards the tv if she talks, but that's still just a few. When Trish talked, the fans listened. Sorry, but anything that Mickie can do, Trish has already done a better job of.

More then a little imporvement on the mic. SHE GOT NO HEEL HEAT IN THE BEGINNING.... and the only reason I wanted to strangle her so much was because I could not stand seeing mickie that way. It was beyond sad and just really epic. ahhh... I still can't get over the promo. I think I have to see it again after this comment

YES SHE DID. Remember when she turned heel and was mean to Maria? That got her heel heat. Her fans that liked her so much when she was a face were disappointed in her, that is also heel heat. Also, you proved my point once again. You wanting to punish Michelle for what she's doing to Mickie in the storyline shows the excellent skills that Michelle has as a heel diva. She's making you hate her, and impressing her fans in the process.

Mickie James is the best... I do not want to hear it. There is no way my opinion is changing!

Well too bad because you're GOING to hear it lol.... Trish Stratus is the best diva of all time. Mickie will NEVER be as good as her.

I do not give up. I hate losing. It will either be you changing opinion, me changing opinion. Or calling it a draw.
Mickie is already the best, there is nothing more to prove. She is a far bettet heel or face then michelle and beth.

She might be a better face than Beth but that's only because Beth has yet had a run as a true face. But Mickie is a better heel than Michelle? Yeah, SURE, and Hornswoggle is going to end the Undertaker's undefeated streak. Sorry, but no. Wrong. Michelle is the best heel diva since Lita.

She has been the best for so long. End of story. Mickie James is the best ever!!!!!

She was never the best to begin with, and she never will be. Trish is the best diva ever, Mickie will never even get near Trish's level because if she truly was the best ever then she would have been able to revive the division after Trish and Lita left. That didn't happen did it? No, because the best diva of all time, Trish, left and no one on the current roster can be as great as she was.

 

[RayneJames81]

Mickie James is awesome!!! She is the biggest draw for the womens division right now, whether or not you like her, you know its true. And as far as Trish making Mickie who she is today, not so much, it took two ladies in that GREAT Wrestlemania match, Trish may have helped elevate Mickie, but Mickie did the same for Trish. And if i remember correctly, people were cheering for Mickie the heel, through the match, and booing for miss Trish, and fyi I do like Trish too. Problem here is Trish is Trish, Mickie is Mickie, there is no compare because they are two totally different women with different wrestling backgrounds, and wrestled in different eras. Mickie is the greatest today, Trish was back then, but times and things change. In all regards, the BEST diva should be Moolah or whomever started the womens division in the WWE yeaaaaaaaaaaaaars ago!!!

 

[Chill]

I'm not sure about her being the best diva we've ever seen in WWE, maybe when it's all said and done but nevertheless, I do think that she is certainly one of the best. For a while I hadn't really been taking much notice of Mickie James, mostly due to the fact that she hadn't been given much to do by Creative other than literally being treated like a pig but after her recent altercation with Michelle McCool, I've a new found interest in Mickie.

I thought Mickie came across great in her promo and really sincere when she was defending women of all shapes and sizes and it was the first time, in a long time, that any WWE storyline has got be emotionally involved, as I genuienly felt for Mickie when she was attacked.

Therefore, it only follows that I'm actually anticipating a Diva's match (for the first time in God knows how long) and a lot of that expectation has to do with Mickie's great recent work with McCool. It's work like this which will make Mickie a strong candidate for one of the greatest WWE Divas of all time and in her most recent program she has certainly reminded me just how good she can be...

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

You can thank Trish for that being the storyline to remember. Without Trish, nobody would have cared, and since that feud is what made Mickie the big name she is today, Mickie would be a nobody if it weren't for Trish. Yet another reason why Trish is the best diva.

I don't think so. It would have been the story to remember. It would have ofcourse had to been with the most popular diva when she debuted, but it would have worked it's same effects because the STORYLINE it's self was really good. Now, ofcourse it takes great divas to act it out to make everything believable and I am not sayin that rish didnt do a good job, because she did. But I am just saying that oter popular divas could have also played that role. Mickie did a great job acting it out and making her a great heel in that story. And if it were not for either one of them (Trish and Mickie), then the story would have been ust dropped. Thats why I say that both divas did their part and both deserve equal credit.

You're once again proving my point. Since you like the faces, WWE is using your hatred of this angle (and others' hatred as well) to get more heel heat for Michelle. You're reacting EXACTLY as they want you to. That's what's so good about it. There has not been an angle as good as this one since Trish and Lita left.

Look, I am not saying that it doesn't draw extra heat. It does for sure. But for me it makes me more pissed at the WWE then Michelle. And untill last promo, I did not have much heat on michelle besides that she is an annoying talker. More like a stop talking heat as you would say it?! And yes, there has not been an angle as good as this one since trish and lita left. You can blame that on the creative team.

Not really. The tournament is most likely for Maryse to look stronger. The better Maryse looks, the tougher it will be (kayfabe) for Kelly or Eve to defeat her, which will make either of them getting their first title reign all the more special of a victory.

That is only if kelly/eve can make it interesting enough for people to actually care. And most of the time, people don't care about the Raw divas at all.

No, there's a difference. True heel heat is when you're booing the wrestler for what they do in their storylines. Any other type of heat (such as when you just want them to shut up or go away) is NOT true heel heat. That's called "Go-Away heat" and it's not acknowledged in the storylines, thus it does not count. Better wrestler or not, Kelly is lightyears ahead of Jillian because Jillian only gets Go-away heat, whereas Kelly gets true cheers. Fan interaction is extremely important, and outranks in-ring ability.

Yes fan interaction is important. BUT you also need in-ring ability to get fan interaction. Jillian has the sets of moves to awe the audience of how devistating the move is. Kelly/eve, not so much.

Kelly and Eve have far more in-ring ability than you give them credit for. More than enough to carry a match and they are both improving.

Yes, they are imporving. But they are still not good enough and still need to go more miles to even touch the title. I am just pissed that they are lowering the standards to hold a title. They should all have some kind of skills to hold it. Maby I do not give them enough credit as you say, but I just can't see why you do give them so much. I just don't see why u like them so much.

No.... sorry but as R-Truth would say.... "Sometimes the truth hurts. Mickie is sloppy all the time and that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." It is not an over-exaggeration of any kind.

Ow yes it is an over-exaggeration. Sorry to tell you, but she has had tons of matches that have not been sloppy. Even now a days where the other wrestlers cant do much. I know that the truth hurts, and I do agree that she has been sloppy AT TIMES, but dont give me the all the time thing because I just can't take you seriously then...

You are almost right here, but not quite. Mickie does have charisma, and that's why it's taken as long for it to die down as it has.... but it HAS died down. Slowly for about 3 years.

Yes, mickie does have great charisma and yes it did die down a bit during the 3 years. But that has more to do with the lack of storylines. It is the same when trish was holding her longest title reign... There was no storylines and every time she came out of the ring it she would get more quiet pops... this was b4 mickie was in the WWE and when I loved Trish Stratus.

Yes they do because if you had put Mickie in the same exact feud with any other diva, the feuds would have not been memorable. Name me ANY other face diva from 2005 who would have been as good in the stalker angle as Trish. NO ONE. The same goes for heel divas in the Piggy James angle. Layla as the top heel? No thank you. Even if they brought Maryse over from Raw it would still be a terrible angle without Michelle.

Yes, it takes 2 to make a good fued. But can you imagine anyone else but mickie in this fued to make the fans care so much. I can't. Mickie has the charisma and mic skills to make anyone feel bad for her. Like I said b4, symphothy is a really hard thing to act out... but mickie did it so well. There is proof that they needed mickie for this feud to work so well. When Michelle comes out of the ring, no boos. When she was talking in the biginning of the promo, no boos. People just don't care about her unless she was doing something to mickie. The biggest boo ever when she caked and punched mickie. Ofcourse I am not saying that michelle did a bad job, she is playing her evil role really well. But it is Mickie James that deserves more of the credit here.

Not true. Look at the other faces on Smackdown. Beth's a tweener, so that leaves.... Maria. Of course no one would care much about the angle if Maria was the face. She's awful. Just because Mickie is the only true face who's any good doesn't mean she deserves more than half the credit for the angle. I already explained that earlier. Mickie VS Layla? Who in the world would want to see that? Mickie VS Maryse? Decently interesting, but Michelle is a far superior choice as the villain in this storyline. She is what made it great. Mickie helped, but Michelle has done more.

You need a face that knows how to act and has the charisma. I can't see melina doing this either since I have never seen her able to act out symphathy. I can't even see her acting it out since she just seems so evil to me, even as face....

Ashley did not get that title win because she got future endeavored. WWE already knew they had to get rid of Ashley, so they changed it to Mickie at the last minute. Whether it's in Mickie's history or not, a last minute change does not count as a memorable win to me. The only memorable win Mickie has is against Trish.

In the end I have not seen any proof that this was valid. It has just been rumors spreading. So as long as the WWE write about it, I stand by that Mickie James beat Beth Phoenix in her dominant form which is really big. And beating lita in her retiring match is also big. It was a great match and in the end goes down in history in mickie's career book.

No she hasn't. Michelle McCool is the best heel diva since Lita. If she's been so boring as a heel then explain how your hatred towards her character doesn't make her a great heel. She's doing her job, and improving every week, I might add.

No, even in the short time (and only time) Mickie was heel, she was still able to get so much heat and have the fued of the century. Michelle on the other hand has been a boring heel untill this fued started and ONLY gets bood when she is beating mickie.

No it doesn't. That just means Mickie is a good face. Trish could have done the same EASILY if she was still around.

I do not know if Trish can act out symphathy well, since I can't remember her doing that. When she was suppose like a dog for McMahon, I didnt really feel symphathy for her, I just felt like changing the channel since I felt embarresed watching the wwe at that moment.

YES SHE DID. Remember when she turned heel and was mean to Maria? That got her heel heat. Her fans that liked her so much when she was a face were disappointed in her, that is also heel heat. Also, you proved my point once again. You wanting to punish Michelle for what she's doing to Mickie in the storyline shows the excellent skills that Michelle has as a heel diva. She's making you hate her, and impressing her fans in the process.

And how long did that last? A few weeks maby?... and then quiet since then.... well untill now anyway. She just made me hate her, b4 that i just found her annoying and didnt want to hear her talk.

Well too bad because you're GOING to hear it lol.... Trish Stratus is the best diva of all time. Mickie will NEVER be as good as her.

And so, I will counter with Mickie James is the best diva ever and that Trish is not as good as her.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I don't think so. It would have been the story to remember. It would have ofcourse had to been with the most popular diva when she debuted, but it would have worked it's same effects because the STORYLINE it's self was really good. Now, ofcourse it takes great divas to act it out to make everything believable and I am not sayin that rish didnt do a good job, because she did. But I am just saying that oter popular divas could have also played that role. Mickie did a great job acting it out and making her a great heel in that story. And if it were not for either one of them (Trish and Mickie), then the story would have been ust dropped. Thats why I say that both divas did their part and both deserve equal credit.

Both deserve credit, and the storyline made it good.... you're right on those things.... but NO ONE could have made Mickie look as good as Trish did. Trish deserves more credit because without her the storyline would not have been as interesting. "Mickie stalks random face diva" is nowhere near as interesting as "Mickie stalks the most popular diva". Which is what happened. Mickie went on to be ONE of the best. Trish went on to further solidify her status as a female legend, THE best.

Look, I am not saying that it doesn't draw extra heat. It does for sure. But for me it makes me more pissed at the WWE then Michelle. And untill last promo, I did not have much heat on michelle besides that she is an annoying talker. More like a stop talking heat as you would say it?! And yes, there has not been an angle as good as this one since trish and lita left. You can blame that on the creative team.

It's not entirely the creative team's fault. No one could follow Trish and Lita's footsteps. The roster lost their legend AND their top heel during the same semester. Mickie and Melina stepped up at first to try to fill those spots, but Mickie got boring and Melina just wasn't good enough. Michelle is by far the best heel since Lita, but even Michelle has catching up to do.

That is only if kelly/eve can make it interesting enough for people to actually care. And most of the time, people don't care about the Raw divas at all.

People seemed to care about both Kelly and Eve tonight. Kelly got a good reaction for her match/segment, and Eve is quickly becoming top tier in the ring as far as the Raw divas go. I'm one of those who DOES care about the Raw divas, and trust me, both Kelly and Eve ARE on the path to stardom.

Yes fan interaction is important. BUT you also need in-ring ability to get fan interaction. Jillian has the sets of moves to awe the audience of how devistating the move is. Kelly/eve, not so much.

I disagree. Kelly does have some great moves. Her cartwheel finisher or whatever its called, is pretty good. Eve showed us some great moves tonight as well. Both of them are better than Jillian in the ring at this point.

Yes, they are imporving. But they are still not good enough and still need to go more miles to even touch the title. I am just pissed that they are lowering the standards to hold a title. They should all have some kind of skills to hold it. Maby I do not give them enough credit as you say, but I just can't see why you do give them so much. I just don't see why u like them so much.

They DO have the skills. If you don't like Kelly or Eve, I understand.... but give them a little credit for trying as hard as they can to entertain you. For example, I don't like Melina, but I still acknowledge her abilities.

Ow yes it is an over-exaggeration. Sorry to tell you, but she has had tons of matches that have not been sloppy. Even now a days where the other wrestlers cant do much. I know that the truth hurts, and I do agree that she has been sloppy AT TIMES, but dont give me the all the time thing because I just can't take you seriously then...

Mickie has been sloppy in MOST of her matches, since summer of 2007.

Yes, mickie does have great charisma and yes it did die down a bit during the 3 years. But that has more to do with the lack of storylines. It is the same when trish was holding her longest title reign... There was no storylines and every time she came out of the ring it she would get more quiet pops... this was b4 mickie was in the WWE and when I loved Trish Stratus.

That was different. People knew Trish was the best in every category and they already knew the outcome, because no one was good enough to beat her. With Mickie, people were getting bored and she was getting sloppy.

Yes, it takes 2 to make a good fued. But can you imagine anyone else but mickie in this fued to make the fans care so much. I can't. Mickie has the charisma and mic skills to make anyone feel bad for her. Like I said b4, symphothy is a really hard thing to act out... but mickie did it so well. There is proof that they needed mickie for this feud to work so well. When Michelle comes out of the ring, no boos. When she was talking in the biginning of the promo, no boos. People just don't care about her unless she was doing something to mickie. The biggest boo ever when she caked and punched mickie. Ofcourse I am not saying that michelle did a bad job, she is playing her evil role really well. But it is Mickie James that deserves more of the credit here.

No it's not. Michelle deserves more credit because if it was Mickie who made it such a good story then if they had used Layla or Alicia Fox then the fans would still care. They wouldn't. A GOOD STORY NEEDS A GOOD HEEL. It's easier for a story to last if the heel is good but the face isn't, since the heel can just win in the end. A memorable win for a face REQUIRES a good heel, or else no one cares. That's why you have to give the credit to Michelle for Piggie James being a successful storyline.

You need a face that knows how to act and has the charisma. I can't see melina doing this either since I have never seen her able to act out symphathy. I can't even see her acting it out since she just seems so evil to me, even as face....

Exactly, but Melina sucks. Terrible example lol

In the end I have not seen any proof that this was valid. It has just been rumors spreading. So as long as the WWE write about it, I stand by that Mickie James beat Beth Phoenix in her dominant form which is really big. And beating lita in her retiring match is also big. It was a great match and in the end goes down in history in mickie's career book.

I'll admit those were good moments for Mickie. Trish had more though.

No, even in the short time (and only time) Mickie was heel, she was still able to get so much heat and have the fued of the century. Michelle on the other hand has been a boring heel untill this fued started and ONLY gets bood when she is beating mickie.

Michelle was never boring. She was a great heel ever since her turn and has constantly improved. Mickie got cheered so much that she had to turn face. The best heels get booed and only their most loyal fans cheer for them. That's why Michelle's a better heel, all fans hate her character right now other than her loyal fans. Most fans liked Mickie as a heel. That's not a heel, that's a tweener.

I do not know if Trish can act out symphathy well, since I can't remember her doing that. When she was suppose like a dog for McMahon, I didnt really feel symphathy for her, I just felt like changing the channel since I felt embarresed watching the wwe at that moment.

How did you not have sympathy for her during those segments? That made me legitimately hate McMahon for a while. I hated seeing my favorite diva being (kayfabe) treated that way. If Trish could pull THAT off, she'd be having the vast majority of fans CRYING out of sympathy for her if she was in a storyline like Mickie now is, with other divas being cruel to her. No diva in history can even TOUCH Trish on the mic.

And how long did that last? A few weeks maby?... and then quiet since then.... well untill now anyway. She just made me hate her, b4 that i just found her annoying and didnt want to hear her talk.

So you don't like her, that's fine. You should still acknowledge her abilities. She's the best heel diva since Lita, and the best we will probably see for a while now unless either Maryse gets better on the mic or Eve turns within the next couple of years.

And so, I will counter with Mickie James is the best diva ever and that Trish is not as good as her.

Everything Mickie has accomplished, Trish did a better job of. Can you be happy knowing that Mickie is widely regarded as ONE of the best? She just isn't THE best, because Trish Stratus is.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Both deserve credit, and the storyline made it good.... you're right on those things.... but NO ONE could have made Mickie look as good as Trish did. Trish deserves more credit because without her the storyline would not have been as interesting. "Mickie stalks random face diva" is nowhere near as interesting as "Mickie stalks the most popular diva". Which is what happened. Mickie went on to be ONE of the best. Trish went on to further solidify her status as a female legend, THE best.

Yes, Trish was the most popular diva of that generation. It asonly logical for mickie to be a "big fan" of trish. But the storylin would have worked just as wellif she was wrestling b4 that time. Example with fabulous moolah and other legend divas. The storyline wold have worked just as great just because it had to run on the popularty of the face diva... Trish was that person at that time. But it could have been lita 2 if she was the face of that time. I think that mickie solfied herself to be on of the greatest at that time. During the years after that she continued to show greatness and made me believe she was the best and is the best diva ever.

It's not entirely the creative team's fault. No one could follow Trish and Lita's footsteps. The roster lost their legend AND their top heel during the same semester. Mickie and Melina stepped up at first to try to fill those spots, but Mickie got boring and Melina just wasn't good enough. Michelle is by far the best heel since Lita, but even Michelle has catching up to do.

Mickie didn't get boring for me. And it takes good storylines to show talents. Michelle is not a better heel then mickie was just because she didnt have a consistent heel crowd.

People seemed to care about both Kelly and Eve tonight. Kelly got a good reaction for her match/segment, and Eve is quickly becoming top tier in the ring as far as the Raw divas go. I'm one of those who DOES care about the Raw divas, and trust me, both Kelly and Eve ARE on the path to stardom.

Kelly's reaction was ok... nothing big and nothing compared to the mickie. Eve's cheer was dead and so was her match. I am trying to care about the RAW divas, but there is nothing really interesting going around. Kelly and Eve got ALLOT to do b4 I ever consider them carrying the division after the others leave.

I disagree. Kelly does have some great moves. Her cartwheel finisher or whatever its called, is pretty good. Eve showed us some great moves tonight as well. Both of them are better than Jillian in the ring at this point.

What cartwheel?... I just know the K2 and I can't even take that seriously... Eve's moes were average at best. Jillian has better wrestling moves 4 sure... She is just also the biggest jobber ever. If they repackage her she might still be able to do something good and look better then kelly and eve combined. But I think we all know that wwe wont do that.... kinda sad really... I feel bad for jillian and dont really get why she still is in the wwe.

They DO have the skills. If you don't like Kelly or Eve, I understand.... but give them a little credit for trying as hard as they can to entertain you. For example, I don't like Melina, but I still acknowledge her abilities.

I don't have any opinions actually over kelly and eve. They are just there because they r. I just don't see them going far just because they dont have the talent right now. If they improve better, I might see something. But for now... there is nothing for them. I don't like michelle either, but she is a good wrestler and she is getting better at the mic. I just don't see that with kelly or eve.

Mickie has been sloppy in MOST of her matches, since summer of 2007.

Some of her matches. When it really came to a ppv or a title match or any match with a good opponent, she has been great... she has been sloppy in tag matches and matches with bad wrestlers I'll give u that.

That was different. People knew Trish was the best in every category and they already knew the outcome, because no one was good enough to beat her. With Mickie, people were getting bored and she was getting sloppy.

And wy would u assume that THAT is why people didnt cheer for trish or didnt cheer for mickie. It could be the same for mickie what u apply to trish, or vice versa... we don't know really what most ppl think. There are many people in this world.

No it's not. Michelle deserves more credit because if it was Mickie who made it such a good story then if they had used Layla or Alicia Fox then the fans would still care. They wouldn't. A GOOD STORY NEEDS A GOOD HEEL. It's easier for a story to last if the heel is good but the face isn't, since the heel can just win in the end. A memorable win for a face REQUIRES a good heel, or else no one cares. That's why you have to give the credit to Michelle for Piggie James being a successful storyline.

They might need michelle for the heel. But that is because she was the only one left really. Beth can't have this gimick since she is already the glamazon and it wouldnt make sense for her to do this. Layla is not good enough for this feud and natalya is kinda as big as mickie really. Michelle was the only one left an she did have the womans title in her hands. But all of that aside you can't have michelle tease anyone more then mickie because if it was anyone else, then michelle would have been given the silent treatment. Just like she was getting at last weeks promo. If it were not for mickie, michelle would not even be noticed. Mickie is what made michelle a great heel. She was a boring heel b4 and she needed a push as a heel even after working as a heel role for so long. Mickie is what made this storyline, not michelle. So mickie deserves more credit.

Exactly, but Melina sucks. Terrible example lol

LOL... don't u think u r overreacting just a little about melina

I'll admit those were good moments for Mickie. Trish had more though.

Great moments. And Trish had more just because of bad storylining. And I would say that mickie is catching up with the amount of moments trish had.

Michelle was never boring. She was a great heel ever since her turn and has constantly improved. Mickie got cheered so much that she had to turn face. The best heels get booed and only their most loyal fans cheer for them. That's why Michelle's a better heel, all fans hate her character right now other than her loyal fans. Most fans liked Mickie as a heel. That's not a heel, that's a tweener.

I guess u r right there. Mickie really was a tweener just because she got cheered. But that proves my point that michelle is not that good of a heel because she doesnt have allot of loyal fans. Mickie had so much that she even got cheered.

How did you not have sympathy for her during those segments? That made me legitimately hate McMahon for a while. I hated seeing my favorite diva being (kayfabe) treated that way. If Trish could pull THAT off, she'd be having the vast majority of fans CRYING out of sympathy for her if she was in a storyline like Mickie now is, with other divas being cruel to her. No diva in history can even TOUCH Trish on the mic.

Idk... i just felt really akward watching the trish and mcmahon storyline. I am not sure why. And mickie almost made me cry last week 2. She also made me feel sad for her when she didnt get the appreciation she wanted when mickie was tirsh's fan. It just shows me that mickie has much better mic skills if she almost made me cry and feel symphathy for her when trish never could. Mickie is in my eyes much better on the mic then trish. Mickie is just the best diva ever!

So you don't like her, that's fine. You should still acknowledge her abilities. She's the best heel diva since Lita, and the best we will probably see for a while now unless either Maryse gets better on the mic or Eve turns within the next couple of years.

Yes, her abilities are fine. It is not the best, but it is still better then most divas and she gets extra credit after coming for the diva search and becoming so good. And yes, she has been the best heel since lita left, since I guess mickie has never really been a heel... But she is still not really that good and I still feel that mickie was a better heel then she was and that michelle has been boring most of her time as a heel.

Everything Mickie has accomplished, Trish did a better job of. Can you be happy knowing that Mickie is widely regarded as ONE of the best? She just isn't THE best, because Trish Stratus is.

Mickie is the best in my eyes. And it doesnt matter what anyone else or how many other people think otherwise. I still have not been convinced and stand by my statement!

 

[Dagger Dias]

Yes, Trish was the most popular diva of that generation. It asonly logical for mickie to be a "big fan" of trish. But the storylin would have worked just as wellif she was wrestling b4 that time. Example with fabulous moolah and other legend divas. The storyline wold have worked just as great just because it had to run on the popularty of the face diva... Trish was that person at that time. But it could have been lita 2 if she was the face of that time. I think that mickie solfied herself to be on of the greatest at that time. During the years after that she continued to show greatness and made me believe she was the best and is the best diva ever.

Mickie stalking Moolah would have worked just as good as stalking Trish? MOOLAH? You're joking right? Read that again and think really hard about that, then see if you still agree with your statement. Also, Lita? Yeah maybe.... and that's a big maybe.... but it wouldn't have been anywhere as good if Trish wasn't in it. It takes two people to make a feud. It usually takes a legend to make a feud epic. Mickie's good but not a legend, Trish is.

Mickie didn't get boring for me. And it takes good storylines to show talents. Michelle is not a better heel then mickie was just because she didnt have a consistent heel crowd.

Mickie got boring for people that aren't Mickie marks. It's ok to admit you're a Mickie mark. I'm a Trish mark and openly admit it. Michelle's a better heel though because fans legitimately hate her whereas Mickie was a heel who was doing cool things, an anti-hero.

Kelly's reaction was ok... nothing big and nothing compared to the mickie. Eve's cheer was dead and so was her match. I am trying to care about the RAW divas, but there is nothing really interesting going around. Kelly and Eve got ALLOT to do b4 I ever consider them carrying the division after the others leave.

Of course it's less than Mickie. Mickie has been around much longer and established her character. That's why Kelly and Eve are the future rather than the "now". I'm telling you, 5 years from now both will be multi-time Womens/Divas Champions.

What cartwheel?... I just know the K2 and I can't even take that seriously... Eve's moes were average at best.

If you just hate them, that's your opinion and it's ok. Give them some credit though, they are far better than you give them credit for.

Jillian has better wrestling moves 4 sure... She is just also the biggest jobber ever. If they repackage her she might still be able to do something good and look better then kelly and eve combined. But I think we all know that wwe wont do that.... kinda sad really... I feel bad for jillian and dont really get why she still is in the wwe.

Jillian can't be taken seriously. She's a diva jobber for life now. Her becoming a serious contender would be like Santino being taken seriously. She's still there because she gets paid to put her peers over and apparently is alright with that.

I don't have any opinions actually over kelly and eve. They are just there because they r. I just don't see them going far just because they dont have the talent right now.

People said that about Trish 10+ years ago and WOW were they wrong!

If they improve better, I might see something. But for now... there is nothing for them. I don't like michelle either, but she is a good wrestler and she is getting better at the mic. I just don't see that with kelly or eve.

Give them time. I'm talking 5 years or more in the future when I refer to them as the future of the division. They are still being trained for that at the moment.

Some of her matches. When it really came to a ppv or a title match or any match with a good opponent, she has been great... she has been sloppy in tag matches and matches with bad wrestlers I'll give u that.

No.... she's been sloppy in basically every match since 2007 other than a few PPV ones.

And wy would u assume that THAT is why people didnt cheer for trish or didnt cheer for mickie. It could be the same for mickie what u apply to trish, or vice versa... we don't know really what most ppl think. There are many people in this world.

Because Trish was the best. Only Mickie marks think Mickie's the best.

They might need michelle for the heel. But that is because she was the only one left really. Beth can't have this gimick since she is already the glamazon and it wouldnt make sense for her to do this. Layla is not good enough for this feud and natalya is kinda as big as mickie really. Michelle was the only one left an she did have the womans title in her hands. But all of that aside you can't have michelle tease anyone more then mickie because if it was anyone else, then michelle would have been given the silent treatment. Just like she was getting at last weeks promo. If it were not for mickie, michelle would not even be noticed. Mickie is what made michelle a great heel. She was a boring heel b4 and she needed a push as a heel even after working as a heel role for so long. Mickie is what made this storyline, not michelle. So mickie deserves more credit.

Mickie does deserve some of the credit for Piggy James being a great angle. Maybe half of it. However, Michelle's better than you give her credit for. She was always a good heel, she just didn't have as good of a partner to feud with until this angle with Mickie. It takes 2 to make a feud. Mickie didn't do that alone. If Mickie deserved more credit than people would have liked this feud just as much if Layla or any other heel diva was teasing Mickie. Beth's a tweener, Layla sucks, and the heel divas on Raw wouldn't make much of an impact either. Even Maryse.

LOL... don't u think u r overreacting just a little about melina

Nope. She's awful. Decent in the ring, bad at everything else.

Great moments. And Trish had more just because of bad storylining. And I would say that mickie is catching up with the amount of moments trish had.

Nope. Mickie had 2 and will have 3 if she beats Michelle. Trish had far more than 3.

I guess u r right there. Mickie really was a tweener just because she got cheered. But that proves my point that michelle is not that good of a heel because she doesnt have allot of loyal fans. Mickie had so much that she even got cheered.

SHE'S A HEEL! Other than online fans such as this forum, most people hate heels, that's how the business works. Michelle was extremely popular as a face though. Mickie got cheered because she was doing cool things despite being a heel, and that's a tweener. Michelle is the better heel because people legitimately hate her character.

Idk... i just felt really akward watching the trish and mcmahon storyline. I am not sure why. And mickie almost made me cry last week 2. She also made me feel sad for her when she didnt get the appreciation she wanted when mickie was tirsh's fan. It just shows me that mickie has much better mic skills if she almost made me cry and feel symphathy for her when trish never could. Mickie is in my eyes much better on the mic then trish. Mickie is just the best diva ever!

Only Mickie fans share your opinion. Mickie is good by divas standards and average if that, by guys standards.... Trish was BETTER than some of the guys on the mic! Trish was the best on the mic when it comes to divas. Countless others would agree with me. Also, many felt sorry for her during the McMahon angle.

Yes, her abilities are fine. It is not the best, but it is still better then most divas and she gets extra credit after coming for the diva search and becoming so good. And yes, she has been the best heel since lita left, since I guess mickie has never really been a heel... But she is still not really that good and I still feel that mickie was a better heel then she was and that michelle has been boring most of her time as a heel.

No, being a more popular heel and being a better heel are two different things. Mickie got cheered as a heel and turned face. Michelle gets boo'ed as a heel.

Mickie is the best in my eyes. And it doesnt matter what anyone else or how many other people think otherwise. I still have not been convinced and stand by my statement!

No she's not. You have yet to prove me wrong in my statement that ANYTHING Mickie ever did, Trish better at. The best diva of all time is Trish Stratus and not Mickie because Mickie's not the standard that all divas are compared to, Trish is!

 

[Rebecca]

She was never the best to begin with, and she never will be. Trish is the best diva ever, Mickie will never even get near Trish's level because if she truly was the best ever then she would have been able to revive the division after Trish and Lita left. That didn't happen did it? No, because the best diva of all time, Trish, left and no one on the current roster can be as great as she was.

Mickie wasn't able to revive the division because of the lack of creative angles coming from the WWE creative team. It's absolutely naive to think that Mickie on her own could bring life into a division with no storylines or decent booking. When it comes down to in-ring, mic, psychology, selling, charisma skills, Trish Stratus was not the best, but most pushed diva which made her appear to be better than she was? Sure. While she is the measuring stick, she wasn't particularly spectacular when it came being in the squared circle.

As for the Michelle McCool comment in your other post, I like her, but she wasn't getting much of a heel reaction until Mickie James came along to Smackdown late last year.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Mickie wasn't able to revive the division because of the lack of creative angles coming from the WWE creative team. It's absolutely naive to think that Mickie on her own could bring life into a division with no storylines or decent booking.

Not exactly. If Mickie WAS the best, as "K_V_W(A_U_A)" has been trying to prove for over a month now, then she would have been able to bring enough interest to the division to give creative a reason to push her even harder. She alone wasn't enough to make up for the huge loss after Trish and Lita left in 2006. Mickie could have saved the division if she had the right heel to work with (someone like Michelle) AND was good enough on her own to gather enough fan interest, which she ended up not being able to do, so she can't be considered the best. That's what I meant.

When it comes down to in-ring, mic, psychology, selling, charisma skills, Trish Stratus was not the best, but most pushed diva which made her appear to be better than she was? Sure. While she is the measuring stick, she wasn't particularly spectacular when it came being in the squared circle.

That's not necessarily true. They could push someone to the moon, but if the fans don't react well enough AND if that wrestler isn't talented to begin with.... then it doesn't work. Trish WAS the best because she started out as just another pretty face and through determination she trained until she became top tier in the ring and THE best on the mic. Then you have her title reigns and her memorable feuds. I do admit the creative team gets some of the credit there, but Trish deserves far more than they do. She is what made those pushes, angles, and title reigns so memorable. That's why Trish is the standard all divas are compared to, the creative team only deserves a fraction of the credit there.

As for the Michelle McCool comment in your other post, I like her, but she wasn't getting much of a heel reaction until Mickie James came along to Smackdown late last year.

Yeah she was. She's been getting reactions ever since she turned. Remember the fan sympathy Maria got when Michelle first turned? Michelle got boo'ed for that for quite a while. She's always been getting reactions, unlike some of the divas.

I'd be willing to debate this further if you still disagree.