Mickie James-- The best Diva the WWE has ever seen?

[Rebecca]

Not exactly. If Mickie WAS the best, as "K_V_W(A_U_A)" has been trying to prove for over a month now, then she would have been able to bring enough interest to the division to give creative a reason to push her even harder. She alone wasn't enough to make up for the huge loss after Trish and Lita left in 2006. Mickie could have saved the division if she had the right heel to work with (someone like Michelle) AND was good enough on her own to gather enough fan interest, which she ended up not being able to do, so she can't be considered the best. That's what I meant.

Mickie wasn't able to gather fan interest? That's an absurd thing to say. Mickie can't make the creative team deliver decent storylines to the division, not to mention, after Trish and Lita had left, there wasn't much talent for Mickie to work with. You talk about Michelle, but she was sloppy up until 2008, and still to this day has yet to get over properly. You need two divas people care about, and Mickie was the only one, she can't do everything by herself.

That's not necessarily true. They could push someone to the moon, but if the fans don't react well enough AND if that wrestler isn't talented to begin with.... then it doesn't work. Trish WAS the best because she started out as just another pretty face and through determination she trained until she became top tier in the ring and THE best on the mic. Then you have her title reigns and her memorable feuds. I do admit the creative team gets some of the credit there, but Trish deserves far more than they do. She is what made those pushes, angles, and title reigns so memorable. That's why Trish is the standard all divas are compared to, the creative team only deserves a fraction of the credit there.

So because Trish started as a face, became okay in the ring, and okay on the mic, she's the best? No. To say she was the best on the mic is ridiculous, and in the ring, she was alright. She could put on a solid match, but to say she's better than Mickie (aka a girl who had worked in top indy companies, as well as doing 5 years on the circuits) is ignorant. Trish wasn't the best wrestler, she wasn't the best seller, and frankly she got a little sloppy in the ring. And title reigns make you the best? Since when? By that logic, John Cena is better than Shawn Michaels right? The creative team deserves a lot of the credit when it comes to Trish, if she wasn't put in those storylines/feuds, she wouldn't have gotten over, simple as that.

Yeah she was. She's been getting reactions ever since she turned. Remember the fan sympathy Maria got when Michelle first turned? Michelle got boo'ed for that for quite a while. She's always been getting reactions, unlike some of the divas.

Again, I like Michelle, but the fans haven't cared about her up until now. She's never gotten a consistent reaction, the Maria point is valid, but how long 'til she came out to crickets again? Not long. A lot of Michelle's pops/boo's on smackdown where canned, feel free to youtube that to further prove my point.

 

[King Blitzkonic]

Do I think that Mickie's the best? Nope. She's the most popular but as far as wrestling ability goes, I give the nod to Beth Phoenix, Natalya, or Gail Kim. Anyone else remember the Mickie OOPS vs. Gail?

Side note: Mickie can use this popularity to her advantage by "hiring" someone (preferably Santino) to inform Michelle that Mickie is a "woman gen-u-ine" and not Michelle

Side Note 2: I know full well I'm going to hear about her time in TNA (NWA). Nothing against her but I've always liked Beth and Natalya

 

[y2empleh]

Well personally I usually have biased for Mickie considering we are both from Richmomd, VA however I disagree that she is the best EVER. I would likely put her third behind Trish and Moolah. For one thing, Trish was the one who once again made Women's wrestling mean something besides just a joke. She was proof of hard determination. With a body like hers, she could have just stayed on as a valet for several wrestlers only occasionally doing a bikini contest but instead chose to work had to become a respected wrestler in a typically man's world. Another reason would be the power of division during each one's reigns. Right now there is little competition for Mickie. Most of the wrestlers they have deserve to just be valet's in all brutal honesty. They were much more serious threats to the women's title during the trish era. When was the last time a women's title was the MAIN EVENT on Raw or Smackdown?? Not since Trish and Lita left. With that said, it ultimately boils down to this:

WWE is in desperate need of Trish Stratus. They are NOT in desperate need of Mickie James.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Mickie wasn't able to gather fan interest? That's an absurd thing to say.

No it's not. If Mickie was as good as some people say, the interest in her as well as the division would not have died down so much.

Mickie can't make the creative team deliver decent storylines to the division, not to mention, after Trish and Lita had left, there wasn't much talent for Mickie to work with. You talk about Michelle, but she was sloppy up until 2008, and still to this day has yet to get over properly. You need two divas people care about, and Mickie was the only one, she can't do everything by herself.

While I admit that Michelle has improved a lot compared to herself from 3 years ago or more.... she was good to begin with. There's a reason she got pushed to win that contest Smackdown had to see who their "best" diva was.... and this was a semester before they had two female titles. You're right to an extent about them needing two divas for people to care about.... but if Mickie WAS the best then she could have made any random heel diva look good.

So because Trish started as a face, became okay in the ring, and okay on the mic, she's the best? No.

That's not what happened. She started as "just another pretty face" meaning she did not stand out from the rest of the divas. She went on to become GREAT in the ring and THE BEST on the mic (by divas standards). That's why she's the best, and before her title reigns are even mentioned.

To say she was the best on the mic is ridiculous, and in the ring, she was alright. She could put on a solid match, but to say she's better than Mickie (aka a girl who had worked in top indy companies, as well as doing 5 years on the circuits) is ignorant. Trish wasn't the best wrestler, she wasn't the best seller, and frankly she got a little sloppy in the ring.

It's ridiculous to say that she was the best on the mic when she was? We might just have to agree to disagree there. Working in indy companies has NOTHING to do with if someone is the best diva WWE has seen, we are going by WWE careers here. Trish had the best career of any diva in WWE history because she WAS the best.... and if we are going to talk sloppiness in the ring, then look no further than Mickie. Trish was amazing compared to Mickie who has been increasingly sloppy for 2 and a half years.

And title reigns make you the best? Since when? By that logic, John Cena is better than Shawn Michaels right? The creative team deserves a lot of the credit when it comes to Trish, if she wasn't put in those storylines/feuds, she wouldn't have gotten over, simple as that.

No, I never said that. However, epic title reigns are great. Cena's year long reign was better than most of HBK's reigns. Trish's 400+ day reign was the best diva reign we have seen in, well, in our generation quite frankly. Trish was also good enough to have gotten put in all those storylines because she was so over to begin with.

Again, I like Michelle, but the fans haven't cared about her up until now. She's never gotten a consistent reaction, the Maria point is valid, but how long 'til she came out to crickets again? Not long. A lot of Michelle's pops/boo's on smackdown where canned, feel free to youtube that to further prove my point.

The fans have cared about Michelle since she dumped Palumbo, which was a little over 2 years ago.

With all of that being said.... while I disagree with you, I am enjoying debating this. However, Trish is the best diva WWE has ever seen because there is nothing Mickie has done that Trish didn't do a better job of.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

No it's not. If Mickie was as good as some people say, the interest in her as well as the division would not have died down so much.

The ONLY reason the the devsion died down is because when trish and lita left, the only great diva was mickie. The division was really crappy and there was no way they can fix that. B4 that time you had just feuds with mickie and trish and lita, the only 3 great divas. That was why when mickie first came she had a great oppertunity to shine so well. Imagine if mickie didnt come. There would be no one for trish to feud with and her longest title reign would have been MORE boring then it already was. The division would have died down anyway if trish didnt leave. There was need for new great wrestlers, but the wwe didnt deliver. Mickie is great because even if there were n other great divas, she was still able to keep allot of attention to the division.

While I admit that Michelle has improved a lot compared to herself from 3 years ago or more.... she was good to begin with. There's a reason she got pushed to win that contest Smackdown had to see who their "best" diva was.... and this was a semester before they had two female titles. You're right to an extent about them needing two divas for people to care about.... but if Mickie WAS the best then she could have made any random heel diva look good.

I don't remember the best diva competion... but if it was a long time ago, it would have been just a lucky kind of thing. Michelle was not good b4 and has only improved wrestling wise when she turned face(for the idk how many times, it was the last).
Well, Trish can't make a random diva look good either. Please don't overreact. NO ONE can make a random wrestler look good unless that random wrestler knows what they are doing. Mickie did a good job making the avererage divas look good, but there is only so much a person can do... this includes trish!

That's not what happened. She started as "just another pretty face" meaning she did not stand out from the rest of the divas. She went on to become GREAT in the ring and THE BEST on the mic (by divas standards). That's why she's the best, and before her title reigns are even mentioned.

The best maby next to mickie, I have told you b4... Mickie does a much better job with symphathy!... mickie is better on the mic then trish.

It's ridiculous to say that she was the best on the mic when she was? We might just have to agree to disagree there. Working in indy companies has NOTHING to do with if someone is the best diva WWE has seen, we are going by WWE careers here. Trish had the best career of any diva in WWE history because she WAS the best.... and if we are going to talk sloppiness in the ring, then look no further than Mickie. Trish was amazing compared to Mickie who has been increasingly sloppy for 2 and a half years.

Mickie is not tha sloppy... most of the time she it is the oter opponent that does something wrong. It was them that made the match look sloppy, mickie has barely done anything sloppy.

No, I never said that. However, epic title reigns are great. Cena's year long reign was better than most of HBK's reigns. Trish's 400+ day reign was the best diva reign we have seen in, well, in our generation quite frankly. Trish was also good enough to have gotten put in all those storylines because she was so over to begin with.

Best in what way? It was boring and I didnt see anything to great about the reign. The bet part about that reign was when she won it ad when she lost it. thats it!... Storylines take 2... it was trish and another. Mickie would also get more storylines if there were more better divas(all around I am talking about).

The fans have cared about Michelle since she dumped Palumbo, which was a little over 2 years ago.

For what, a few episodes... then back to the quiet little pop she usually got at that time....

With all of that being said.... while I disagree with you, I am enjoying debating this. However, Trish is the best diva WWE has ever seen because there is nothing Mickie has done that Trish didn't do a better job of.

Wrong again. Mickie won her first wrestlemania match. Mickie has had a storyline tha actually ment something... it had a story that people can learn of. Mickie is a better wrestler... more wrestling moves and experience. Mickie has had the passion for more years then trish had. Do I need to continue... Mickie is better then trish... and thats the end of it!

 

[Rebecca]

No it's not. If Mickie was as good as some people say, the interest in her as well as the division would not have died down so much.

While I admit that Michelle has improved a lot compared to herself from 3 years ago or more.... she was good to begin with. There's a reason she got pushed to win that contest Smackdown had to see who their "best" diva was.... and this was a semester before they had two female titles. You're right to an extent about them needing two divas for people to care about.... but if Mickie WAS the best then she could have made any random heel diva look good.

How are people not interested in Mickie? Have you heard her pops? Did you hear the crowd at Wrestlemania 22? The division died down because of the lack of talent, and because of the lack of effort being put in by creative. And Mickie isn't a miracle worker, even Trish Stratus couldn't make a shitty women look like gold, it takes two to have a good match.

That's not what happened. She started as "just another pretty face" meaning she did not stand out from the rest of the divas. She went on to become GREAT in the ring and THE BEST on the mic (by divas standards). That's why she's the best, and before her title reigns are even mentioned.

Best on the mic? By divas standards? Mickie James is leaps and bounds above Trish in both the promo and charisma department. Great in the ring is proof you're exaggerating her in-ring ability, Trish didn't have much awareness of in-ring psychology, she was good in the ring so I'll give her credit, but to say she's been the best to enter the squared circle is frankly a little worrying.

It's ridiculous to say that she was the best on the mic when she was? We might just have to agree to disagree there. Working in indy companies has NOTHING to do with if someone is the best diva WWE has seen, we are going by WWE careers here. Trish had the best career of any diva in WWE history because she WAS the best.... and if we are going to talk sloppiness in the ring, then look no further than Mickie. Trish was amazing compared to Mickie who has been increasingly sloppy for 2 and a half years.

You keep saying she was the best, how? In the ring, average, on the mic, decent, selling ability, average. And actually, Mickie working in indy companies has a lot to do with wrestling in the WWE, Mickie had 5+ years of wrestling experience over Trish when she debuted which she initially incorporated into her style of wrestling in the WWE. Mickie, increasingly sloppy? And Trish amazing in compared to her? Mickie's had some solid matches when you think about the green opponents that have been throw at her. As far as good matches are concerned, in the past two and a half years, Mickie's done fairly well for herself:

vs Beth and Melina - Raw 2007
vs Jillian - Heat 2007
vs Melina - Heat 2007
vs Victoria - Smackdown and Heat 2007
vs Beth Phoenix - January, April and June 2008
vs Katie Lea - Raw and Night of Champions 2008
vs Melina x3 - Heat 2008
vs Beth - Raw 2009
vs Alicia - Hell in a Cell 2009
vs Michelle McCool - Survivor Series 2009

...just to name a few, and those are literally just off the top of my head so I can guarantee there's a lot more.

No, I never said that. However, epic title reigns are great. Cena's year long reign was better than most of HBK's reigns. Trish's 400+ day reign was the best diva reign we have seen in, well, in our generation quite frankly. Trish was also good enough to have gotten put in all those storylines because she was so over to begin with.

When it comes to just in-ring ability, title reigns do not make you a good wrestler, simple concept.

The fans have cared about Michelle since she dumped Palumbo, which was a little over 2 years ago.

Explain the dead crowd she tends to come out to then.

With all of that being said.... while I disagree with you, I am enjoying debating this. However, Trish is the best diva WWE has ever seen because there is nothing Mickie has done that Trish didn't do a better job of.

She isn't, and that's my two cents. I don't really want to continue this debate though, it's quite obvious we're clearly not going to agree.

 

[Dagger Dias]

The ONLY reason the the devsion died down is because when trish and lita left, the only great diva was mickie. The division was really crappy and there was no way they can fix that. B4 that time you had just feuds with mickie and trish and lita, the only 3 great divas. That was why when mickie first came she had a great oppertunity to shine so well. Imagine if mickie didnt come. There would be no one for trish to feud with and her longest title reign would have been MORE boring then it already was. The division would have died down anyway if trish didnt leave. There was need for new great wrestlers, but the wwe didnt deliver. Mickie is great because even if there were n other great divas, she was still able to keep allot of attention to the division.

Yes, the division died down because Trish and Lita left.... but you claim Mickie is the best. She didn't recreate interest in a dying division, something someone who is the best would be able to do out of making any heel look good. That someone would have been Trish, but she left, thus the division's attention died down.

I don't remember the best diva competion... but if it was a long time ago, it would have been just a lucky kind of thing.

I remember watching it exactly 2 years ago. Michelle was the favorite among the fans by an overwhelmingly high number.

Well, Trish can't make a random diva look good either. Please don't overreact. NO ONE can make a random wrestler look good unless that random wrestler knows what they are doing. Mickie did a good job making the avererage divas look good, but there is only so much a person can do... this includes trish!

You misunderstood. If someone's opponent is awful, then someone truly talented can carry the match and make their opponent look good even if it's someone who sucks. Trish could make any other diva look good, something Mickie can't.

The best maby next to mickie, I have told you b4... Mickie does a much better job with symphathy!... mickie is better on the mic then trish.

Trish is superior both at getting fan support and in mic ability.

Mickie is not tha sloppy... most of the time she it is the oter opponent that does something wrong. It was them that made the match look sloppy, mickie has barely done anything sloppy.

Yes she is. Mickie has been sloppy for a while now, we've been through this already.

Best in what way? It was boring and I didnt see anything to great about the reign. The bet part about that reign was when she won it ad when she lost it. thats it!... Storylines take 2... it was trish and another.

How was that boring? It was the best diva of all defeating all challengers no matter what, for over a year! I take it you don't like long title reigns?

Mickie would also get more storylines if there were more better divas(all around I am talking about).

Yeah but would the fans care? Not unless it was something interesting like the Piggy James angle, and even then it would take a great heel like Michelle for it to work. "Mickie + boring heel = boring feud."

For what, a few episodes... then back to the quiet little pop she usually got at that time....

Heels aren't supposed to get pops anyhow.

Wrong again. Mickie won her first wrestlemania match. Mickie has had a storyline tha actually ment something... it had a story that people can learn of.

Mickie had a storyline that actually meant something.... big deal, Trish had several.

Mickie is a better wrestler... more wrestling moves and experience. Mickie has had the passion for more years then trish had. Do I need to continue... Mickie is better then trish... and thats the end of it!

Having more moves or experience certainly didn't help her deal with sloppiness, did it? What about fans losing interest, did it help with that? No. Mickie can never be called the best. She is ONE of the best. Trish is THE best because she is the standard that all divas are compared to and her legendary career is something that young divas in training can look to for inspiration.

 

[Dagger Dias]

How are people not interested in Mickie? Have you heard her pops? Did you hear the crowd at Wrestlemania 22? The division died down because of the lack of talent, and because of the lack of effort being put in by creative. And Mickie isn't a miracle worker, even Trish Stratus couldn't make a shitty women look like gold, it takes two to have a good match.

Wrestlemania 22 was 4 years ago. People were interested then, absolutely. However, around a year later the interest had begun dying down FAST.... and no, Trish can't make someone awful look perfect but she could certainly carry the match and make them look decent.

Best on the mic? By divas standards? Mickie James is leaps and bounds above Trish in both the promo and charisma department. Great in the ring is proof you're exaggerating her in-ring ability, Trish didn't have much awareness of in-ring psychology, she was good in the ring so I'll give her credit, but to say she's been the best to enter the squared circle is frankly a little worrying.

I never said she was the best in terms of in-ring ability, I said she was the best diva, a conclusion reached because of her being above average in everything, and how is Mickie better than Trish on the mic? Mickie is good but Trish was untouchable on the mic. She was great at everything she did.

You keep saying she was the best, how? In the ring, average, on the mic, decent, selling ability, average.

Trish was above average in all of those things.

And actually, Mickie working in indy companies has a lot to do with wrestling in the WWE, Mickie had 5+ years of wrestling experience over Trish when she debuted which she initially incorporated into her style of wrestling in the WWE. Mickie, increasingly sloppy? And Trish amazing in compared to her? Mickie's had some solid matches when you think about the green opponents that have been throw at her. As far as good matches are concerned, in the past two and a half years, Mickie's done fairly well for herself:

Indy work has NOTHING to do with this thread's discussion. I couldn't care less about indy work when it comes to the question of who had the best WWE career. Work while with the WWE is all that counts.

vs Beth and Melina - Raw 2007

Good because of Beth.

vs Jillian - Heat 2007

Heat = boring

vs Melina - Heat 2007

Heat + Melina = extremely boring

vs Victoria - Smackdown and Heat 2007

Decent, but kind of boring.

vs Beth Phoenix - January, April and June 2008

Good because of Beth, but "Mickie VS Beth" got old as a feud.

vs Katie Lea - Raw and Night of Champions 2008

That one was good, agreed there.

vs Melina x3 - Heat 2008

Boring.

vs Beth - Raw 2009

Boring because those two in a match was so old by that point.

vs Alicia - Hell in a Cell 2009

Bad because of Alicia, as well as Mickie's sloppiness being such an issue by then.

vs Michelle McCool - Survivor Series 2009

Good match.

...just to name a few, and those are literally just off the top of my head so I can guarantee there's a lot more.

Yeah, there's a few more but only a few.

When it comes to just in-ring ability, title reigns do not make you a good wrestler, simple concept.

Yes but we are discussing who had the best WWE career out of the divas, that includes in-ring ability AND title reigns, among other criteria such as how over they were.

Explain the dead crowd she tends to come out to then.

People who were as bored as Stone Cold during a Lance Storm match.

She isn't, and that's my two cents. I don't really want to continue this debate though, it's quite obvious we're clearly not going to agree.

I think Trish is the best because when you compare the overall average of her in-ring ability, memorable feuds, title reigns, how over she was, her determination to be the best, mic ability, and fan support.... you end up with.... as Bret Hart would say.... "The best diva there is, the best diva there was, and the best diva there ever will be".... and that was Trish.


That's fine if you don't wish to continue, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Rebecca]

Couple of points before I end this;

Mickie can make someone look good and carry them through a match. She's also one of the better divas to have actually touched the mic, you're ovrerrating Trish's ability, especially since Mickie carried the mic work throughout their feud. Trish wasn't above average in the ring, she could string a few moves together, but as I said, she was "basic", didn't show much awareness of in-ring psychology and the only memorable selling she did was at 'Mania 22. And indy work in my personal opinion, has a lot to do with Mickies time in the WWE from the start. She used her experience from the circuits in her moveset in the WWE, which initially made her better than Trish, by that I mean character, selling ability, etc.

Although, it's quite obvious you're dismissing several of the good matches Mickie has had, to say her matches with Melina on Heat where boring is pretty ignorant when you think about the fact in terms of in ring action, they where miles better than a lot of the matches Stratus was in. And I'm not discussing Trish's career here, I'm discussing her in-ring ability, I thought that was obvious. I don't put in ring ability and title reigns together when it comes to making someone a "good" wrestler, it's about what they can do in the ring for me, just ability, that's it. By your logic, Khali having a title say, over Evan Bourne, makes Khali the better wrestler, right? Wrong. What a person can do in the ring, and how many kayfabe titles they have had are two completely different things. Trish had a better career than Mickie, but that's booking, as far as just wrestling is concerned, Mickie could wrestle rings around Trish.

I don't fancy continuing this, it's probably best to agree to disagree, I just wanted to throw in the last of my spare change.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Rebecca, I'll agree to disagree but in all fairness since you had a final statement then I get one too.

Mickie does have the ability to carry matches and is good on the mic. I never doubted that. I just think Trish was better at it, she could have made someone like Layla or Maria look better in a match than Mickie could. Mickie might be a bit more skilled in the ring by this point, but Trish still gets the win for mic ability as she is the best of female mic worker of all time. I still stand by my statements that Trish is superior to Mickie, the only area where Mickie could possibly beat her is in-ring ability.

Now then.... indy work. Sure, Mickie used experience from things she had learned while working with indy feds to become better in WWE.... but that's nowhere near as impressive as Trish's climb to the top because Trish went from a nobody to becoming the standard all divas are compared to, and ALL of that happened while she was with the WWE.... while Mickie, on the other hand, had been in other federations and had experience, thus she came in towards the top already. She didn't have the impressive climb to the top that Trish had, nor the determination to become the best when she was still a nobody.

The thread asks if Mickie was the best diva that WWE has seen, not who the best diva indy feds have seen. In my opinion, only the time spent with WWE counts when arguing who had the best WWE career, so no matter what influence it might have had on her, Mickie's time in the indy feds is not relevant in this thread's discussion since it didn't happen in WWE. We can agree to disagree there as well.

Then finally, I'll address your point about in-ring ability. It's important.... but it shouldn't be the only reason why someone is a good wrestler or not. This isn't amateur wrestling, it's the WWE. The divas have to be able to have a character the fans like, good feuds, great title reigns, and many memorable moments.... COMBINED with good in-ring ability, if they can be called "the best WWE has ever seen". You think that in-ring ability is what matters, that's completely fine because it's your opinion. I disagree, but I respect it. Mine is that in-ring ability is not as important as the kayfabe'd stuff because everything I listed should be weighted equally when determining who is the best.

You said that by "my logic" then Khali is a better wrestler than Bourne? Not quite. Bourne has better in-ring ability but he has yet to win any title whereas Khali is a former world champion. Khali has been more successful than Bourne. I could turn around and use the "logic" argument in my own favor, by the logic of in-ring ability being all that matters then you would be saying that Shelton Benjamin is better than Triple H. If you are, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that as well because I disagree 100% there.

Someone's in-ring ability is NOT the only thing that matters.

In-ring ability.... storylines.... her character.... title reigns.... memorable feuds.... big wins.... mic ability.... I look at everything equally when deciding who is the best, and since Trish was above average or better in all of the above, that is how I reached the conclusion that she is the best, she was the best (overall) diva ever because even if (by some miracle) Mickie happened to break Trish's record, she still would never be able to replicate Trish's legendary career, I doubt anyone could ever have as good a career as Trish did, and that is why Trish will always be the best.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Yes, the division died down because Trish and Lita left.... but you claim Mickie is the best. She didn't recreate interest in a dying division, something someone who is the best would be able to do out of making any heel look good. That someone would have been Trish, but she left, thus the division's attention died down.

No. Trish could not have recreate interest in the division. Imagine the division without mickie and lita and just trish and the rest of the divas of that time. Trish is no better in keeping the division alive. NO diva would be able to do this alone. But I can say mickie did a great job trying to keep the division alive. Atleast it didt completely crahsed down. It stayed alive and got better after a months. THANKS TO MICKIE for most of the work.

I remember watching it exactly 2 years ago. Michelle was the favorite among the fans by an overwhelmingly high number.

I can't remember. But maby its becuase she would have lost the fans as fast as she gained them. She can't keep the the fans with her or against her. idk why... but she just cant do it. She might just be to annoying or just not good enough... idk

You misunderstood. If someone's opponent is awful, then someone truly talented can carry the match and make their opponent look good even if it's someone who sucks. Trish could make any other diva look good, something Mickie can't.

No.. Trish was not able to make candice, ashley, maria, torrie to name a few look good. Trish is not better then mickie in this either. But I can't say mickie is better then trish in this either. This depends on the other wrestler.

Trish is superior both at getting fan support and in mic ability.

If trish is superior at getting fan support, why did she lose allot fo them 2 MICKIE in the fued when she was the face and mickie the heel. Fans can see talent, and it just proves that mickie has great talent to steal so much from trish as a heel. As being a face, trish was suppose to keep the fan support... but she lost it. I won't say that she is thus superior in fan support.
Mic skills: Lets just o back to the mickie vs trish feud. What was the most epic part of the feud?... I would say the present opening segment done by MICKIE... mickie did this segment so well and was the greatest segment I have ever seen done by divas. Ofcourse a few weeks later they reversed the roles of the present segment and made trish do that part... what happened???... it was boring... trish was not able to do as good of a job as mickie. It just shows u that mickie has MUCH BETTER mic skills then trish.
The whole feud mickie was doing segments... great ones. The only thing trish was suppose to do was keep the fans on her side... which is something she was not able to do completely.

How was that boring? It was the best diva of all defeating all challengers no matter what, for over a year! I take it you don't like long title reigns?

It was broign because there was nothing going on. sure she beat some divas, but it was boring because there was no real storyline to it. just random matces. BORING... I love long title reigns if they are done right. Like randy orton's ... I wished it was longer.....

Yeah but would the fans care? Not unless it was something interesting like the Piggy James angle, and even then it would take a great heel like Michelle for it to work. "Mickie + boring heel = boring feud."

Ok, you need a ok heel to do this feud. Michelle is beyond boring but still ok. I would say michelle could have been replaced by a heel melina. Melina would have been able to pull this off as much as michelle could have. why?... Bcause of MICKIE JAMES... it was her that made people care. No other face diva on the roster would be able to pull it off and I dont think that trish would be able to pull it off either.

Mickie had a storyline that actually meant something.... big deal, Trish had several.

Like what?... Mickie storyline is something allot of people can relate to. It teaches people a lesson. DId trish have anything like that... i dont think so.

Having more moves or experience certainly didn't help her deal with sloppiness, did it? What about fans losing interest, did it help with that? No. Mickie can never be called the best. She is ONE of the best. Trish is THE best because she is the standard that all divas are compared to and her legendary career is something that young divas in training can look to for inspiration.

You are overreacting. Mickie is not sloppy anymore... and was only sloppy for a period of time. Just like how trish would be sloppy when she has a match against one of the sucky divas like ashely or candice.
Mickie James is just simple the best.. and I can't see how I would change my mind.

 

[Dagger Dias]

No. Trish could not have recreate interest in the division. Imagine the division without mickie and lita and just trish and the rest of the divas of that time. Trish is no better in keeping the division alive. NO diva would be able to do this alone. But I can say mickie did a great job trying to keep the division alive. Atleast it didt completely crahsed down. It stayed alive and got better after a months. THANKS TO MICKIE for most of the work.

Trish would have created more interest in the division if she had stuck around in 2006 because she was a legend by then. Mickie was still only known for the stalker angle. A legend would draw more attention to a dying division than somebody who's mostly known for only one angle.

I can't remember. But maby its becuase she would have lost the fans as fast as she gained them. She can't keep the the fans with her or against her. idk why... but she just cant do it. She might just be to annoying or just not good enough... idk

She's a heel and you're not supposed to like heels, that's why she lost fans.

No.. Trish was not able to make candice, ashley, maria, torrie to name a few look good. Trish is not better then mickie in this either. But I can't say mickie is better then trish in this either. This depends on the other wrestler.

Usually yes, however the better ones can make their opponent look better than their peers can.

If trish is superior at getting fan support, why did she lose allot fo them 2 MICKIE in the fued when she was the face and mickie the heel. Fans can see talent, and it just proves that mickie has great talent to steal so much from trish as a heel. As being a face, trish was suppose to keep the fan support... but she lost it. I won't say that she is thus superior in fan support.

Mickie got fan support in that angle because she was acting like a tweener, and anti-heroes are still rather popular. We hadn't seen something like that among the divas much.

Mic skills: Lets just o back to the mickie vs trish feud. What was the most epic part of the feud?... I would say the present opening segment done by MICKIE... mickie did this segment so well and was the greatest segment I have ever seen done by divas. Ofcourse a few weeks later they reversed the roles of the present segment and made trish do that part... what happened???... it was boring... trish was not able to do as good of a job as mickie. It just shows u that mickie has MUCH BETTER mic skills then trish.

You're still only referring to one feud. Try looking up some of Trish's promos on youtube. She never disappoints. Ever stop to wonder if maybe Trish was letting Mickie have stronger promos in that feud so she could pass the torch?

The whole feud mickie was doing segments... great ones. The only thing trish was suppose to do was keep the fans on her side... which is something she was not able to do completely.

See previous comment.

It was broign because there was nothing going on. sure she beat some divas, but it was boring because there was no real storyline to it. just random matces. BORING... I love long title reigns if they are done right. Like randy orton's ... I wished it was longer.....

Hate to break it to you, but there's never anything going on storyline-wise for the divas. Piggie James was the first true angle for divas in years, pretty much since Mickie VS Trish. So.... random pointless title reigns, or an epic 400+ day one? Easy choice to me. By divas standards it was anything but boring.

Ok, you need a ok heel to do this feud. Michelle is beyond boring but still ok. I would say michelle could have been replaced by a heel melina. Melina would have been able to pull this off as much as michelle could have. why?... Bcause of MICKIE JAMES... it was her that made people care. No other face diva on the roster would be able to pull it off and I dont think that trish would be able to pull it off either.

Melina would have gotten "go away" heat. She was absolutely horrible, but is tolerable as a face because of her decent in-ring ability. Michelle was a better pick because she plays the role of the mean stuck up girl so well. Mickie made fans care more, yes.... but she needed a good heel to work with. Michelle was needed.... and yes, Trish could have pulled off a similar angle.

Like what?... Mickie storyline is something allot of people can relate to. It teaches people a lesson. DId trish have anything like that... i dont think so.

Trish wasn't given that opportunity, the McMahon storyline comes the closest and people did feel sorry for her character during that.

You are overreacting. Mickie is not sloppy anymore... and was only sloppy for a period of time. Just like how trish would be sloppy when she has a match against one of the sucky divas like ashely or candice.

Trish made those divas look good and feel somewhat like threats to the title. Against Mickie you could tell they were jobbing.

Mickie James is just simple the best.. and I can't see how I would change my mind.

Mickie's not the best and while I admire you sticking up for her this long, that doesn't make her the best because she'll never be viewed as a legendary diva like Trish is.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Hey dagger,

It's been a while again since I've posted. I have not forgotten about this discussion but I think it's time we just moving forward... I am not giving up on my opinion, and I still will discuss anytime u bring it up in newer post... but this post has been going on for a long time and I think its time to just move forward...

I still think mickie is mickie is the best... but I still respect ur opinion...

later!

 

[omorris]

I would first like to say that the match was better than I thought is was going to be. I thought this would be another 2-3 minute space filler with one or two good moves( that's what happens when you give the ladies a chance to wrestle.) As far as Mickie Being the best ever, I would have to disagree. Now there's no doubt she is a future hall of famer, but I would have to say Trish and you can make a good argument for Lita. Those ladies could draw a crowd better then some of the guys. Trish could also make the worst divas look good as well.Trish also hade great rivalries (Jaquelin,Victoria,Jazz,Molly Holly) and a very good match with Melina at Survivor Series. Mickie has only two I could think of(Beth Pheonix and Melina). Maybe that doesn't say much about the rest of the talent pool or booking just doesnt' care about the divas wich could be the reason. 5 years from now (maybe three) lets ask this question again. For now it's Trish Stratus

 

[JrX]

Mickie greatest Diva ever? She's great but you know when your great when you can take part in another storyline wihtout having the womens championship involved in it. This just means that you don't need the championship to give you spotlight. This is something Lita and Trish had. When the belt wasn't on them, the spotlight was still on them and they were still able to garner reaction.

Don't get me wrong, Mickie is prolly the best thing in WWE for the last 3+ years (before the attitude girls retired), and probably a future hall of famer, but even WWE can tell you she wasn't much of a draw as Lita and Trish were. No one can deny that.

 

[Datdude2485]

If you want to know if Mickie is the greatest Diva ever today, the answer is simply no. I give her a lot of credit for what she has done and accomplished since being in the WWE but she is still nowhere near Trish Stratus's or Lita's league yet. Thats not to say years down the road she can surpass them. She needs more years under her belt and needs to work on getting fans emotoinally involved in a storyline thats intriguing and matters. The only storylines I thought she was unique and interesting in was with you guessed it Trish Stratus in 2005-2006. If she can do that and have more decent matches than she has a legitimate shot at being the best diva ever. I mean lets face it, I thought the women's division was a dying breed when Trish and Lita left. But she managed to keep it relevant in the WWE until new stars like Melina and Beth Phoenix came along and added new competition for her. Speaking of Melina, I think she also has a chance to be considered the best diva ever. Of course, she has to stay healthy and continue to have good matches. But if it wasn't for her injuries...I think she could possibly be ahead of Mickie James in this discussion right now imo.