Mickie James-- The best Diva the WWE has ever seen?

[Dagger Dias]

We haven't seen a lot of Beth latley

Did you not watch Smackdown this week?

your right Angelina isn't apart of the WWE but she used to be a WWE diva before she became a TNA knockout so she still counts.

No she doesn't because her time in TNA does not matter. This is about the best WWE divas, so it has to be their WWE careers. Or else the other posters and myself would have thrown in women from WCW and other federations (like TNA) into our lists.

I'm sorry by no standards is Trish better than Lita. Lita had a different kind of in-ring skill that was awesome she had great mic skills and interesting storylines with divas and superstars. Trish isn't even close to Lita

We can just agree to disagree there.

Mickie has great mic skills and a unique in-ring style just like Lita which I think makes her #1. I guess you guys will always like Trish I don't know why and I can't change your mind but I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion and my opionion is that Mickie is the best.

And you are entitled to that opinion.... but many other people are going to disagree with you. I'm just sayin'.

 

[Saritafan]

Mickie is NOT the best,Trish stratus will always be number 1.While mickie may have 5 title reigns,all her reigns didn't have any meaning to them and none of her fueds are memorable,her 1st 2 title reigns were nothing but forgettable,her 3rd reign shouldn't even count since she won it by accident,her 4th reign was boring,and her divas title reign was barley lasted 2 months

all of trishs reigns were exciting and i can remember each one of them,her fued with Lita went down in history,who has mickie fueded with besides beth phoenix

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

OK, this is my opinion

Even though trish has had a succesful wwe run as a diva it is because for some reason Vine really liked her allot and kept letting her win the titles. Sure she has lots of fans that would say she is the greastest Diva in history. But that is because WWE pushed her in that way. In my opinion she didnt have many wrestling moves. Itis usually the same moves. She does have good mic skills. And yea, she is one of the most succesfull diva's ever. But I would never call her the greatest diva ever.

Mickie James has bee held back in my opinion. Before her WWE run, she has had a huge variety of wrestling moves. When she came to the WWE it dulled down allot. WWE don't push the diva's as much now, so how can she have the same popularity of Trish and even still, she has one o the loudest cheers for a diva. She has shown her great mic skills in the Trish mickie fued and with the current fued with michelle. And in my opinion she is the greatest diva ever.
Sure she does not have the same succes as Trish, but I blame the WWE for that. She could have brought allot. I think that if she was in the wwe the whole period trish was there, she would have been seen as the greastest ever.
Trish has always been overrated. She is good, thats for sure. And she will be seen as the greatest WWE diva ever. Bu that is because WWE pushed her. If they pushed mickie the same way, she would have been the greatest.

Just so u know, it is my first post. So most likely it is confusing. So I apologize for that.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Even though trish has had a succesful wwe run as a diva it is because for some reason Vine really liked her allot and kept letting her win the titles.

It isn't just that. Vince might like someone a lot and push them, but if the fans don't care, then the push ends. The fans loved Trish, and we still do.

Sure she has lots of fans that would say she is the greastest Diva in history. But that is because WWE pushed her in that way. In my opinion she didnt have many wrestling moves. Itis usually the same moves. She does have good mic skills. And yea, she is one of the most succesfull diva's ever. But I would never call her the greatest diva ever.

It may have started as them pushing her, but the fans responded. That's far more important than whether Vince likes someone or not.

so how can she have the same popularity of Trish and even still, she has one o the loudest cheers for a diva.

For a diva. Trish sometimes got louder cheers than some of the midcarders.

She has shown her great mic skills in the Trish mickie fued and with the current fued with michelle.

Stop. Re-read what you just wrote. Mickie showed her great mic skills in the TRISH feud. That feud was legendary (for a diva feud) but a big reason for that was because Trish was in it.

I think that if she was in the wwe the whole period trish was there, she would have been seen as the greastest ever.
Trish has always been overrated. She is good, thats for sure. And she will be seen as the greatest WWE diva ever. Bu that is because WWE pushed her. If they pushed mickie the same way, she would have been the greatest.

Not true. They would have run the Mickie/Trish feud earlier, and afterwards Mickie would have lost the title to either Trish or Lita and fallen into obscurity. Mickie only got as many title wins as she did because both Trish and Lita are gone.


I'll keep defending Trish as being the best diva ever because no one has come up with a valid reason for why she isn't. Trish is the best diva ever, end of discussion.... and that's the bottom line, because Dagger Dias said so.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

OK... Since I dont know how to qoute it like you do yet. I will just copy paste and write quote in the front.

Ok. It is true about the cheering, but I still think it is because the diva's were push more back in the day then now.

Stop. Re-read what you just wrote. Mickie showed her great mic skills in the TRISH feud. That feud was legendary (for a diva feud) but a big reason for that was because Trish was in it.

I think you should stop and reread. I did say she showed it with BOTH trish and michelle. So it is not because trish was in it that she was good. She did a good job by herself.

Not true. They would have run the Mickie/Trish feud earlier, and afterwards Mickie would have lost the title to either Trish or Lita and fallen into obscurity. Mickie only got as many title wins as she did because both Trish and Lita are gone.

I don't think so. In the trish vs mickie fued they were cheering mickie on. I would not think that she would be forgotten because she already had a huge fan base while Trish and Lita were there. I think that in that period plus the period she is now wrestling in, she would have surpassed Trish. And she would have kept wrestling since she has been wrestling for more then 7 years.

Mickie has held the womans division on her back all of these years. It shows you that she has that ability that not all have. I cannot understand why people think other diva's is better. But I guess it is something I will never understand. And I will always have this opinion.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Ok. It is true about the cheering, but I still think it is because the diva's were push more back in the day then now.

Not necessarily. Trish got more reactions out of the fans than some of the guys, but the other divas got about the same amount of reaction from fans that the divas now do (except maybe Lita)....

I did say she showed it with BOTH trish and michelle. So it is not because trish was in it that she was good. She did a good job by herself.

Yes she did, but that's only two feuds and one was with Trish. Whereas, every Trish feud was good.

I don't think so. In the trish vs mickie fued they were cheering mickie on.

Yeah she cheered Mickie on because the stalker/fan character she was playing at the time was interesting. They got sick of that eventually though, which is why she turned face.

I would not think that she would be forgotten because she already had a huge fan base while Trish and Lita were there. I think that in that period plus the period she is now wrestling in, she would have surpassed Trish. And she would have kept wrestling since she has been wrestling for more then 7 years.

Her "huge fan base" she had while Trish and Lita were still there was nowhere near Lita's, let alone Trish's. She would NEVER have surpassed Trish. If Trish and Lita had still been around in the 2006-2007 schoolyear then the Mickie and Melina reigns that year would have been Trish and Lita respectively. It would have been those two all the time up until Beth Phoenix showed up in late 2007. Mickie only got more title runs because Trish and Lita were gone. Same argument can be made for Melina.

Mickie has held the womans division on her back all of these years. It shows you that she has that ability that not all have. I cannot understand why people think other diva's is better. But I guess it is something I will never understand. And I will always have this opinion.

Exactly, she kind of has.... but that's because Trish isn't here to do that. Trish was gone and so was Lita, Beth isn't at that level yet, so Mickie was the next best option. You're entitled to your opinion, but I still respectfully disagree with it. Mine is that Trish is the best diva ever.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Alright, I'm going for broke here to remind people of a few things:

Mickie James is definitely one of the best diva's that the WWE has ever seen. One of the reasons being is she is like CM Punk, she worked her ass off in the indies, learned and had the desire to become a great wrestler and she went through the long road to get to where she is. When she first arrived in the WWE, what did they do? They immediately aligned her with Trish and gave her a feud. At the time, Trish was a hot commodity and anyone put into a program with her got noticed. Why would the E put Mickie straight from developmental as a rookie into a program such as this?

Well, the E knew that their best performers at that time would be leaving sooner rather than later and they needed someone who could carry the division. Mickie James was the only logical choice in pitting there, and she delivered a performance with Trish that showed she deserved that spot. This was proven by the fans at WrestleMania cheering her on and accepting the future to be Mickie, yet she was a heel that garnered quite the heel heat on a weekly basis.

Then, Trish left, Lita left, Victoria got relegated to a lower position and all you basically had was Mickie James carrying the entire division. For a one woman army, she did a good job in holding it up until the other women stepped up to the plate to help her out. People speak of her botching a lot of DDT's, but it takes two to tango. For the most part, all Mickie has to do is jump up and plant them safely. How many times have you seen someone injured from the MickieT solely based on Mickie planting them wrong? Hardly. The opponents just have to lift Mickie and sell the plant, and some of them seem to botch the move. Mickie here does the best she can to deliver on their behalf...

But... I still give Trish a higher ranking than Mickie at this point in time. Why? Well, Trish was never a wrestler to begin with and trained herself to not be one of those blonde models that just need the money and reputation to continue their careers. She vastly improved and was able to be the face of the division, holding her own with the best. Because of this, the company rewarded her efforts with seven title reigns which she deserved and gave her the proper send off. In hindsight, Trish is a better diva than Mickie. If Trish and Mickie were competing at the exact same time or say Mickie retiring in the next few years and we were at that point... it would be a whole different story.

 

[Bernkastel]

Thanks for calling me out on this one.

According to the history books, Mickie James will never become the greatest in the WWE as that title goes to the Fabulous Moolah and her legendary championship reign of over 2 decades, with others like Trish and her record of 7 Women's Championship reigns taking the next spots. James has held 4 womens title reigns and a diva's championship, whereby a couple of these can be considered as "not completely legit" (like Maryse's injury and the house show incident, if memory serves me right). She had a great feud with Stratus and played a character in the diva's division not seen before (or perfected). Sure, it has some merit, but not as much as the ones listed above.

As for being a wrestler in the WWE under the category of women's wrestling, it is arguable but you'd have an arduous task on your hands. Title reigns and everything aside, only looking at the wrestler themselves... Mickie can be considered the best. She is gold on the stick and has enough charisma to play any role (something hardly seen), she can wrestle very well and make her opponents look legit (as best as she can do) and she has a fan following as a face and heel heat as the bad girl.

Mickie James is one of the best the WWE has seen no doubt, but I don't think she could be considered the best ever... which I already stated as who should deserve them more.

Actually Falcon, The Fabulous Moolah wasn't nearly as great as people make her out to be. Just because you're the first to do something with the most longevity, doesn't mean you're the best of all time.

The 30 year title reign of Moolah can be attributed to the lack of competition during that time period. For more than a decade, Moolah and the title wen't unchallenged, literally. Moolah kept the belt at home, where it collected dust on a shelf.

And unlike some of her successors, Moolah was never a proven draw for the WWE, another reason why her reign lasted so long. Moolah, nor any of her contemporary rivals, could never garner enough attention to make the media care about a title defense.

On my list of the greatest WWE Women's Champions ever, Moolah is third behind Trish and Lita. And on my list of the greatest Women's Champions of the World, Moolah isn't even on the top 5, and Trish is second behind Manami Toyota.

Mickie isn't the greatest WWE Women's champion of all time time, not even close. Having the longest title reign or the most title reigns doesn't mean crap. In comparison, all but maybe 2 of Trish's 7 title wins and feuds were either special or memorable. Of Mickie's 6 title reigns, I'd only deem 2 of them either special or memorable.

In this day and age, I don't think there's anyone in the current crop of Divas with the potential to surpasses either Trish or Lita. Maybe years from now when our children are watching the product, there might be someone that will appear that can do so; but not at this moment.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

OK, this is my opinion

Even though trish has had a succesful wwe run as a diva it is because for some reason Vine really liked her allot and kept letting her win the titles. Sure she has lots of fans that would say she is the greastest Diva in history. But that is because WWE pushed her in that way. In my opinion she didnt have many wrestling moves. Itis usually the same moves. She does have good mic skills. And yea, she is one of the most succesfull diva's ever. But I would never call her the greatest diva ever.

Mickie James has bee held back in my opinion. Before her WWE run, she has had a huge variety of wrestling moves. When she came to the WWE it dulled down allot. WWE don't push the diva's as much now, so how can she have the same popularity of Trish and even still, she has one o the loudest cheers for a diva. She has shown her great mic skills in the Trish mickie fued and with the current fued with michelle. And in my opinion she is the greatest diva ever.
Sure she does not have the same succes as Trish, but I blame the WWE for that. She could have brought allot. I think that if she was in the wwe the whole period trish was there, she would have been seen as the greastest ever.
Trish has always been overrated. She is good, thats for sure. And she will be seen as the greatest WWE diva ever. Bu that is because WWE pushed her. If they pushed mickie the same way, she would have been the greatest.

Just so u know, it is my first post. So most likely it is confusing. So I apologize for that.

For your first post that was very good and thank-you so much. That is all true and that is what I have been saying the whole time. With the WWE the way it is right now the divas are screwed. Mickie is great and she could prove it to a lot more people if she would just be able to compete in the kind of matches that Trish and Lita used to compete in other than that she is the whole package.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

Not necessarily. Trish got more reactions out of the fans than some of the guys, but the other divas got about the same amount of reaction from fans that the divas now do (except maybe Lita)....

I ment the diva's devision in general. They had more storylines and they put effort in everything to make them look good. As apposed to the now 2 minute matches with. Ofcourse trish and Lita have great reaction because they were the ones with the storylines

Yes she did, but that's only two feuds and one was with Trish. Whereas, every Trish feud was good

Yea.... Trish got loads of storylines which is why she gets to talk. Mickie on the other hand barely get chances to talk. Because wwe wont push the division as much. And I think every time mickie has been on the mic, she has been good.

Yeah she cheered Mickie on because the stalker/fan character she was playing at the time was interesting. They got sick of that eventually though, which is why she turned face.

I don't think so. They turned mickie face because she was the only diva that got cheered. They knew Trish was leaving, and they did need a top face, wich is why mickie got a face turn.

Her "huge fan base" she had while Trish and Lita were still there was nowhere near Lita's, let alone Trish's. She would NEVER have surpassed Trish. If Trish and Lita had still been around in the 2006-2007 schoolyear then the Mickie and Melina reigns that year would have been Trish and Lita respectively. It would have been those two all the time up until Beth Phoenix showed up in late 2007. Mickie only got more title runs because Trish and Lita were gone. Same argument can be made for Melina.

I dont see the pattern that you would assume that. They would have continued the mickie and tirsh feud. Lita was never in the title picture untill they found out that she was going to retire 2. I dont see how they would have been lita's and Trish's title reign.

Exactly, she kind of has.... but that's because Trish isn't here to do that. Trish was gone and so was Lita, Beth isn't at that level yet, so Mickie was the next best option. You're entitled to your opinion, but I still respectfully disagree with it. Mine is that Trish is the best diva ever.

Mickie did a great job doing that. And it was Trish's choice to leave WWE, so she would have never had the chance to carry the devision
And ofcourse I respect your opinion. And so I also disagree with it, wich is why I am giving my opinion out.

 

[Toroc102]

When she first arrived in the WWE, what did they do? They immediately aligned her with Trish and gave her a feud. At the time, Trish was a hot commodity and anyone put into a program with her got noticed. Why would the E put Mickie straight from developmental as a rookie into a program such as this?

To be fair, the women's division works so much differently than the men's, pretty much every debuting Diva got a shot at the title within a month in Trish's Era, and Trish was almost always champ. Victoria made her name against Trish, Jazz made her name against Trish, when Molly started wrestling, she made her name against Trish, just like Mickie. Only difference was that Trish wasn't thinking about retiring any time soon when those girls debuted. Seems to me like it was more right place right time for Mickie.

But even now you can tell she's getting overshadowed. She is more of a transitional face of the Division, but once Vince finds someone that is hotter than Mickie and a decent enough wrestler, I think Mickie will be done. You can tell he already favors Melina over her since Melina has the title and Mickie got shipped off to SD! and is now involved in this Piggie James angle. I mean honestly, if Vince had any faith in Mickie he wouldn't use the same angle that has been used to degrade heel woman for the past 10 years as a way to get Mickie over. It's kind of how Bret was just a transitional Champ, after Hogan. He didn't have anyone who fit his ideal vision of a champ at the time so Bret got the spot, but once Michaels and Austin came along Bret was pretty much done for.

Now obviously who Vince favors doesn't speak towards Mickie's talent. But I wouldn't say she ever did anything better than Trish. At best she's on par with Trish on the mic, and while she may have a better moveset than Trish, I still think that Trish is one of the BEST in ring female workers of all time.

I compare her to people like Flair, Austin, and even yes HOGAN. They may not have had the best movesets, but their matches were always fluid and they could always get the crowds into their matches. Mickie has some awesome moves in the ring, but she has trouble keeping the crowd going with them. However when you have two championships diluting a tiny division that is oversaturated with models that were brought in through the Diva search its hard to have good fluid matches. Right now its hard to point out any Divas that are really on par with Mickie in terms of in ring talent, excluding Beth who she already feuded with.

Even so, Trish was able to have decent matches with non-workers like Stacy/Torrie/Terry and always make them seem somewhat respectable. Most Diva matches nowadays are botchfests with no fluidity to them whatsoever because every other move is messed up, because the Divas have no idea how to time their moves, or to put the proper impact on them.

 

[Bernkastel]

Even though trish has had a succesful wwe run as a diva it is because for some reason Vine really liked her allot and kept letting her win the titles.

He liked her because she was popular and she made his company money, makes since he would continue to push her to such a degree.

Sure she has lots of fans that would say she is the greastest Diva in history. But that is because WWE pushed her in that way.

WWE didn't do anything but book the matches, Trish was the one doing all the work. She was one of the very few women that proved capable of connecting to the fans on an emotional level, to get them to care about the story she was trying to tell them. When Trish returned in 2005, she received a standing ovation, and this was after being sidelined in 2004 as one of the companies most hated heels. At that point, the fans recognized her genius as an entertainer and the respect they showed her was merely a thank you for entertaining them.

In my opinion she didnt have many wrestling moves. Itis usually the same moves. She does have good mic skills. And yea, she is one of the most succesfull diva's ever. But I would never call her the greatest diva ever.

*Entering Slyfox Mode*

This is pro wrestling we're talking about, not the Olympics. The amount of moves a wrestler does nothing to define them as being good or not. In fact, most wrestlers who use a bunch of fancy, flashy moves are either trying to compensate for the fact that they couldn't even draw flies to a jar using honey, or their matches suck at telling a story.

The professional wrestling world, wrestler and entertainer are the same thing. The moves that are performed are merely an extension of the characters that are being portrayed.

Mickie James has bee held back in my opinion. Before her WWE run, she has had a huge variety of wrestling moves. When she came to the WWE it dulled down allot.

6 title reigns and she's being held back? Son, I do believe you've got your logic backwards.

WWE don't push the diva's as much now, so how can she have the same popularity of Trish and even still, she has one o the loudest cheers for a diva.

Mickie has proven time and time again (just like many of the current crop of divas) that she isn't capable of performing on the same level as either Trish or Lita, and this is after getting the rub from both of them.

It makes no sense for the WWE to invest time and money into a character that wouldn't benefit them.

She has shown her great mic skills in the Trish mickie fued and with the current fued with michelle. And in my opinion she is the greatest diva ever.

Eziekial Jackson has great mic skills, so lets give him the WWE Title.

Sure she does not have the same succes as Trish, but I blame the WWE for that.

How can Mickie be the best if she isn't nearly as successful as Trish?

It isn't the WWE's fault, it's Mickie's fault for not being a good enough entertainer to fill Trish's shoes.

She could have brought allot. I think that if she was in the wwe the whole period trish was there, she would have been seen as the greastest ever.

I doubt it, why? Because Trish personally passed the torch to Mickie, and put her over as being her successor, but Mickie soon proved incapable of filling the shoes that were left for her. If she was capable of doing so, she'd have 10 times the popularity and success that she does now.

Trish has always been overrated. She is good, thats for sure. And she will be seen as the greatest WWE diva ever. Bu that is because WWE pushed her. If they pushed mickie the same way, she would have been the greatest.

How was Trish overrated? Because she made the WWE money and she brought credit and prestige to a division that didn't have any?

Oh, that's right she was only capable of doing 4 moves so she must have sucked

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

He liked her because she was popular and she made his company money, makes since he would continue to push her to such a degree.
WWE didn't do anything but book the matches, Trish was the one doing all the work. She was one of the very few women that proved capable of connecting to the fans on an emotional level, to get them to care about the story she was trying to tell them. When Trish returned in 2005, she received a standing ovation, and this was after being sidelined in 2004 as one of the companies most hated heels. At that point, the fans recognized her genius as an entertainer and the respect they showed her was merely a thank you for entertaining them.

Alll of this was possible because they actually have storylines back then. Thy actually ut effort into storylines witch made it interesting. You can't entertain people if you dont have storylines. Mickie does a great ob wrestlin and acting out storylines. It's just that WWE doesn't give the divas devision much storylines untill about a few weeks ago. Trish selled because she was in tons of sotrylines that showed her skills while mickie was only in a few.

*Entering Slyfox Mode*

This is pro wrestling we're talking about, not the Olympics. The amount of moves a wrestler does nothing to define them as being good or not. In fact, most wrestlers who use a bunch of fancy, flashy moves are either trying to compensate for the fact that they couldn't even draw flies to a jar using honey, or their matches suck at telling a story.

The professional wrestling world, wrestler and entertainer are the same thing. The moves that are performed are merely an extension of the characters that are being portrayed.

Ok, I have to agree with you here. But to entertain people it would be best to have a veriaty of moves so people won't find you repetative.

6 title reigns and she's being held back? Son, I do believe you've got your logic backwards.

Hahahaha... I just ment that they have downgraded her moveset allot. She had allot of moves before. And now she only use some of them. And she is also being held back because the womans devision is being held back. They do not have as much storylines as before for the womans devision.

Mickie has proven time and time again (just like many of the current crop of divas) that she isn't capable of performing on the same level as either Trish or Lita, and this is after getting the rub from both of them.

It makes no sense for the WWE to invest time and money into a character that wouldn't benefit them.

I don't see where you are coming from witht this. For me she has already shown that she can do the job right. It's just that wwe isnt doing anything with that.

Eziekial Jackson has great mic skills, so lets give him the WWE Title.

hahahhaa... I didn't mean it in that way. sorry if that confused u. It's just one of the reasons why I think she is the greatest Diva ever

How can Mickie be the best if she isn't nearly as successful as Trish?

It isn't the WWE's fault, it's Mickie's fault for not being a good enough entertainer to fill Trish's shoes.

Again, you cannot entertain someone if there are no effort of a storyline. Right now you can already see that they are really entertained because of this whole piggy james thing... If Trish started wrestling now in this period unknown but with the wrestling skills she has. I don't think she would be entertaining at all. But that is because the WWE does not care anymore.

How was Trish overrated? Because she made the WWE money and she brought credit and prestige to a division that didn't have any?

Oh, that's right she was only capable of doing 4 moves so she must have sucked

Trish was overrated because she was not really that entertaining as a wrestler itself. She got all those cheers because she was in actual storylines that made it interesting. She also had the other wrestlers that could wrestle well 2 that avoided botches.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Alll of this was possible because they actually have storylines back then. Thy actually ut effort into storylines witch made it interesting. You can't entertain people if you dont have storylines. Mickie does a great ob wrestlin and acting out storylines. It's just that WWE doesn't give the divas devision much storylines untill about a few weeks ago. Trish selled because she was in tons of sotrylines that showed her skills while mickie was only in a few.

They still have storylines now. Did you ever think that maybe those storylines were better because of Trish being there to make them better?

And she is also being held back because the womans devision is being held back. They do not have as much storylines as before for the womans devision.

They do not have as much storylines as themselves? Might wanna watch out for typos.... they have a tendency to confuse the reader.

Again, you cannot entertain someone if there are no effort of a storyline. Right now you can already see that they are really entertained because of this whole piggy james thing... If Trish started wrestling now in this period unknown but with the wrestling skills she has. I don't think she would be entertaining at all. But that is because the WWE does not care anymore.

Oh yes she would. Trish always had the entertainment skills, she would have the same desire now to become the best that she had back then. She did it then and she would do it now.

Trish was overrated because she was not really that entertaining as a wrestler itself. She got all those cheers because she was in actual storylines that made it interesting. She also had the other wrestlers that could wrestle well 2 that avoided botches.

Like I said earlier. Those storylines were interesting because Trish made them interesting. You have yet to prove me wrong as to why Trish is not the greatest diva ever.... because she is.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

They still have storylines now. Did you ever think that maybe those storylines were better because of Trish being there to make them better?

Yes they still have storylines now. But they don't go deep enough with them. It's the usual I want your title fiasco and then the heel usually attacks tha face and then they get "personal". It has been the same thing over and over again. I don't think you can actually call that a storyline. when the face wins they just move on to the next heel. And if the heels wins there is only one rematch clause, wich usually has not build up, and then they move on to the next fued.

They do not have as much storylines as themselves? Might wanna watch out for typos.... they have a tendency to confuse the reader.

I knew that I shouldn't have been eating a burger while typing
What I ment to say is that is that because the WWE don't care as much about the womans devision as they used to, mickie cant do much if they won't put effort into storylines that is more then just the usual.

Oh yes she would. Trish always had the entertainment skills, she would have the same desire now to become the best that she had back then. She did it then and she would do it now.

I don't think so. If she came now with no fans but just the talent she would not make a difference at all. The WWE is not pushing the devision and I can't imagine how she would be able to be the best in this period. You would have to explain more to me here.

Like I said earlier. Those storylines were interesting because Trish made them interesting. You have yet to prove me wrong as to why Trish is not the greatest diva ever.... because she is.

Well ofcourse it depends on the wrestler itself to make the storylines interesting. But the storylines have to be good ones for the fans to care in the first place.
And I do think she is one of the greatest diva ever. But I just cant say she is the greatest ever.

And why I say mickie is the greatest ever is because even though the devision is having the msot crappiest time ever, she has been able to outshine and made me and allot of other people care about her. And I do not usually get entertained easy. But I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Yes they still have storylines now. But they don't go deep enough with them. It's the usual I want your title fiasco and then the heel usually attacks tha face and then they get "personal". It has been the same thing over and over again. I don't think you can actually call that a storyline. when the face wins they just move on to the next heel. And if the heels wins there is only one rematch clause, wich usually has not build up, and then they move on to the next fued.

That's how almost every title feud tends to be though, and Trish even made those more entertaining.

I knew that I shouldn't have been eating a burger while typing
What I ment to say is that is that because the WWE don't care as much about the womans devision as they used to, mickie cant do much if they won't put effort into storylines that is more then just the usual.

That might just be because not enough of them are over right now. They put effort into the storylines, and yes, Mickie can only do so much there, but she'd still fall short when compared to others (it doesn't have to be Trish here necessarily).

I don't think so. If she came now with no fans but just the talent she would not make a difference at all. The WWE is not pushing the devision and I can't imagine how she would be able to be the best in this period. You would have to explain more to me here.

No that's not what I meant. Even if she came in now and had no talent, but the desire to become that good, she could do it now just as she did back then because she was that awesome.

Well ofcourse it depends on the wrestler itself to make the storylines interesting. But the storylines have to be good ones for the fans to care in the first place.
And I do think she is one of the greatest diva ever. But I just cant say she is the greatest ever.

Yeah the storylines have to be good, but a better entertainer can use their skills to put the story itself over. Trish was better at this than just about anyone.

And why I say mickie is the greatest ever is because even though the devision is having the msot crappiest time ever, she has been able to outshine and made me and allot of other people care about her. And I do not usually get entertained easy. But I can understand where you are coming from.

I'll give you that, she's been among the top in a bad time for the division. She's just not THE best, that's all. I'm enjoying this, keep going. I'm willing to debate further if you still disagree.

 

[RayneJames81]

I happen to think Mickie James is one of, if not the best Diva the WWE has ever had.

I have been watching the WWE for over 12 years now and have seen alot of good talented women come and go: Chyna, Alundra Blaze, Sable, Ivory, Tori, Jacqueline, Molly Holly, Jazz, Lita, and Trish just to name the more memorable ones. Now alot of people say Trish is the best and no one will ever touch that. Well, i recall Trish not being very good in the ring at first and for a while when she first debuted she NEVER wrestled a match. She got good with more training just like some of the women of today are trying to do as well. And YES Trish was amazing and ended up being 7 times womens champ in a 4 year span and was a foundation for the road of the women today but here is my argument with that. Trish had it good competition wise all those ladies I mentioned and then some were around and involved in matches with her and she did reign then.

Now though, Mickie James is THE top face in the womens division and has held that spot ever since Trish and Lita left. Mickie hasnt had the greatest talent to compete with, other than Beth and now Michelle and Natalya. Lets face it alot of the divas today are more the VALET type and can excute a couple of moves here and there, as to back then when all the women got in the ring and at least 90% of them did a great job in that ring all the time. I think Mickie has been an excellent champion and is extremely entertaining to watch inside and out the ring. This women has busted her butt in alot of ways to get where she is too, and thats one reason as well, Mickie James is my number one Diva!

 

[twiztid_lestat]

What kills me is that Alundra Blaze never gets mentioned. And how dare people make it seem that Mickie is anywhere NEAR the calibur of the Fabolous Moolah

Mickie is gorgeous, Yes, but in ring, she's decent at BEST. Trish wasnt amazing either.

Most of the women would never put on the matches that Moolah did, and think of people like Mickie going against Bull Nakano? She'd be destroyed. Easily.

Saying that Mickie is the best ever is like saying Lex luger was, in my opinion.

 

[Bernkastel]

What kills me is that Alundra Blaze never gets mentioned. And how dare people make it seem that Mickie is anywhere NEAR the calibur of the Fabolous Moolah

Mickie is gorgeous, Yes, but in ring, she's decent at BEST. Trish wasnt amazing either.

Most of the women would never put on the matches that Moolah did, and think of people like Mickie going against Bull Nakano? She'd be destroyed. Easily.

Saying that Mickie is the best ever is like saying Lex luger was in my opinion

Alundra Blazye was champion during the dark ages of the WWE, she was purely average at best and doesn't deserve to be on the top 5 list of any sensible pro wrestling fan.

How would Mickie be "destroyed" against someone like Bull Nakano? Last I checked this was pro wrestling we were talking about, not a legit shoot fight.

Nakano wasn't near the entertainer in the States as she was during her heyday in Japan, and since she often portrayed the villain instead of the hero, Mickie would have a clear advantage if they ever faced off.

Moolah was never a proven draw, despite putting on decent matches with great talent. Mickie puts on matches with often sub par talent and still draws the same type of attention as Moolah did in her prime. It's easy to justify why Mickie could be on the same level as Moolah.



The only people who would ever say that Trish Stratus was anything but amazing are the ones that have no concept of professional wrestling at all. The only woman that I would say that could entertain better than Trish was Manami Toyota. Mildred Burke was probably debatable as well to an extent.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

That's how almost every title feud tends to be though, and Trish even made those more entertaining.

Well if that is true it must mean that I just forgot about them, which I would guess means not memorable then.... But I do think that there were much more to that normal storylines they give now to the divas.

That might just be because not enough of them are over right now. They put effort into the storylines, and yes, Mickie can only do so much there, but she'd still fall short when compared to others (it doesn't have to be Trish here necessarily).

I don't see her falling short when they have good storylines with her in it. She is doing a great job now with the Michelle storyline. She did really well with the melina one a few years back. And I would say even the Katie Lea one was pretty interesting.

No that's not what I meant. Even if she came in now and had no talent, but the desire to become that good, she could do it now just as she did back then because she was that awesome.

I don't think so. Not the way the WWE are pushing the divas right now. Lots of diva come with passion to the WWE, but they get lost in it because the WWE does not build them up properly

Yeah the storylines have to be good, but a better entertainer can use their skills to put the story itself over. Trish was better at this than just about anyone.

You are right here. But if the storylines are not good, then no matter how awsome the enternatiner is it just won't work out.

I'll give you that, she's been among the top in a bad time for the division. She's just not THE best, that's all. I'm enjoying this, keep going. I'm willing to debate further if you still disagree.

I think she is the best. Mickie has done a real great job in the bad period here. And I would see that it would have been more if she came in a better period because she has the passion and the talent!
Hahaha well its nice to hear that u r liking the debate! But it just looks like we will never change opinions!.. Well atleast not me!

On another note. I finally figured out how to quote with the name

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I don't think that highly of Trish because she was only good the last two years of her career so I would rate Mickie above Trish but I don't know about greatest ever. She is in my Top 5 but one day she could get their with her amount of title reigns and it all depends how long she stays. I seen some people put Chyna and I don't get why. Sure she was the first woman to hold an IC Title and compete in the Royal Rumble but it always seemed to me that she thought she was above the women's divison and that doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Well if that is true it must mean that I just forgot about them, wich I would guess means not memorable then.... But I do think that there were much more to that normal storylines they give now to the divas.

That's just because most of the divas are even worse these days than back then.

I don't see her falling short when they have good storylines with her in it. She is doing a great job now with the Michelle storyline. She did really well with the melina one a few years back. And I would say even the Katie Lea one was pretty interesting.

Trish VS anybody were better than any of those though.... and I didn't even like the Melina one.

I don't think so. Not the way the WWE are pushing the divas right now. Lots of diva come with passion to the WWE, but they get lost in it because the WWE does not build them up properly

The fans do not accept them if they are not good enough, and that hurts the odds of getting any pushes. Some of them aren't truly passionate about the business and are just scripted to say "I'm so glad to finally be in WWE!"

You are right here. But if the storylines are not good, then no matter how awsome the enternatiner is it just won't work out.

Not true. The best of the best can make anything interesting because they are that talented.

I think she is the best. Mickie has done a real great job in the bad period here. And I would see that it would have been more if she came in a better period because she has the passion and the talent!

No, she's better off being among the best in a bad time for the divas. If she were around when there was a better group of divas she would get lost in the shuffle within a semester or so.

Hahaha well its nice to hear that u r liking the debate! But it just looks like we will never change opinions!.. Well atleast not me!

That is how I debate. I argue my points relentlessly until either my opponent gives up or until they finally defeat me. It's fun though, so keep it up.

On another note. I finally figured out how to quote with the name

I noticed that, good job. I was really excited when I first figured that out too, that is when I started debating like this.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

That's just because most of the divas are even worse these days than back then.




Trish VS anybody were better than any of those though.... and I didn't even like the Melina one.




The fans do not accept them if they are not good enough, and that hurts the odds of getting any pushes. Some of them aren't truly passionate about the business and are just scripted to say "I'm so glad to finally be in WWE!"




Not true. The best of the best can make anything interesting because they are that talented.




No, she's better off being among the best in a bad time for the divas. If she were around when there was a better group of divas she would get lost in the shuffle within a semester or so.



That is how I debate. I argue my points relentlessly until either my opponent gives up or until they finally defeat me. It's fun though, so keep it up.




I noticed that, good job. I was really excited when I first figured that out too, that is when I started debating like this.

I'm so glad you two are having such fun with this debate. When I first posted it I thought I would get three responses, but I like reading what you guys put it is very interesting and good so keep it up. Oh one thing I want to put out there if Mickie had been with a better group of divas she wouldn't have been lost because she is passionate about the WWE and she is a great diva and it shows thats why she is the best. Lets keep this going ok you guys.

 

[K_V_W(A_U_A)]

That's just because most of the divas are even worse these days than back then.

Agreed. Most diva's now are really bad. But for me Trish did not have many memorable matches as u you are stating. I am assuming your a fan of hers, wich is why you would remember more of her

Trish VS anybody were better than any of those though.... and I didn't even like the Melina one.

I don't think so. We must have different entertaiment states. I remember being really ethousiastic about these matches. Not so much on many of Trish's matches. And I did like her back then. And even though mickie vs trish was te best match in mickie's career, I would say it was also the best of trish's career. I would only put 3 among the memorable for trish, wich is her with lita victoria and mickie. I think mickie did have pretty memorable matches also even witht the crappy storylines.

The fans do not accept them if they are not good enough, and that hurts the odds of getting any pushes. Some of them aren't truly passionate about the business and are just scripted to say "I'm so glad to finally be in WWE!"

Ok, true. Ofcourse not all divas are passionate. But I would say all that worked their ass of to get to the WWE are passionate about it. Fans do not accept them if they are not involved in storylines that have character development. Ofcourse they need to be good 2.

Not true. The best of the best can make anything interesting because they are that talented.

OK.... example. Victoria was a great wrestler, she has been shown to have great talent getting heat or great reaction. But the last moments of WWE sucked for her because she didn't have any more storylines revolving around her. She just continue losing wich is wh most people didn't really care anymore. She has the talent, but se got bad storylines then. And so do every wrestler in general!

No, she's better off being among the best in a bad time for the divas. If she were around when there was a better group of divas she would get lost in the shuffle within a semester or so.

WHY?????? She has the talent, the charisma, the moves. I do not think it would happen. I think taht if she was around that time, it would have cut the amount of titles Trish had.

That is how I debate. I argue my points relentlessly until either my opponent gives up or until they finally defeat me. It's fun though, so keep it up.

Hahaha.... I wonder how this one is going to end. I do not like losing .... This might b a long debate

I noticed that, good job. I was really excited when I first figured that out too, that is when I started debating like this.

Cool... and so the debate continues

 

[Dagger Dias]

Agreed. Most diva's now are really bad. But for me Trish did not have many memorable matches as u you are stating. I am assuming your a fan of hers, wich is why you would remember more of her

No I'm just randomly defending her because I have nothing better to do....



Sorry, you kinda walked right into that one. Yes, I am one of the biggest Trish marks you will ever find....

I don't think so. We must have different entertaiment states. I remember being really ethousiastic about these matches. Not so much on many of Trish's matches. And I did like her back then. And even though mickie vs trish was te best match in mickie's career, I would say it was also the best of trish's career. I would only put 3 among the memorable for trish, wich is her with lita victoria and mickie. I think mickie did have pretty memorable matches also even witht the crappy storylines.

Mickie VS Trish was the best match of Mickie's career, but not Trish's. There's too many to pick from to say Trish's best one is. It's ONE of her best one's I'll give you that one.

Ok, true. Ofcourse not all divas are passionate. But I would say all that worked their ass of to get to the WWE are passionate about it. Fans do not accept them if they are not involved in storylines that have character development. Ofcourse they need to be good 2.

Nope. Many of the ones that are seen as "barbie dolls" or "models" rather than female wrestlers, they mostly got hired for being beautiful. Not for being passionate about joining the WWE. Trish was one of the few who actually wanted to be there.

OK.... example. Victoria was a great wrestler, she has been shown to have great talent getting heat or great reaction. But the last moments of WWE sucked for her because she didn't have any more storylines revolving around her. She just continue losing wich is wh most people didn't really care anymore. She has the talent, but se got bad storylines then. And so do every wrestler in general!

She did have the talent, but even the TNA version of Victoria (Tara) has nothing on Trish. She's been in great storylines over there compared to those last years on Smackdown, but is still not top tier for "best diva ever".... whereas Trish makes the top tier for nearly every fan's list.

WHY?????? She has the talent, the charisma, the moves. I do not think it would happen. I think taht if she was around that time, it would have cut the amount of titles Trish had.

No exactly the opposite would happen. The only reign Mickie would ever have gotten would be the one from after the Trish match at Wrestlemania 22. No one would have taken her seriously up until that feud if she was around back then. This was when Trish was unstoppable, Lita was still there, Victoria wasn't stuck in bad storylines as much, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Mickie came in at the right place at the right time.

Hahaha.... I wonder how this one is going to end. I do not like losing .... This might b a long debate

Bring it on. You're a worthy opponent, especially for being so new to these forums.... but Trish is still the best diva ever.