**MERGED** All GM Discussion (KEEP IT IN HERE!!!!)
- Thread starter Sexcellence of Sexecution
- Start date
IMO its not good heat. She's gets so many boos only based on the fact that her voice makes you want to put a bullet in your head especially over a speaker system. I went to Raw with family that doesn't watch much anymore, and they were just annoyed by her voice. When she comes on TV I change the channel. Unlike Paul Heyman, Vicky does not entertain me. With Heyman you actually want to see what he's gonna say, but with Vicky who really cares?
Her reactions from the fans came from being incredibly annoying for an extended timeframe. She first turned heel when Edge returned from injury in late 2007 and they formed their onscreen alliance before they within kayfabe got married. She got heat at that time for being biased in Edge's favor. This was around the time EXCUSE ME began.
Fans were already upset with her decisions so yelling EXCUSE ME only made them more angry at her for having to hear that frustrating voice. Then there was La Familia and the Taker feud during summer 2008. By that point she was hated and the EXCUSE ME routine has worked for 4 years now. Dang, time sure flew by on that one. Feels like it was just yesterday that she first turned.
Steve-O-Matt
Pre-Show Stalwart
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Well that's what I think might work anyway, imagine King's triumphant return be when Vince announces him as the new General Manager of Monday Night Raw. You could have Vickie and Paul in the ring arguing over who should be the general manager and King can come out with and tell them to get out of his ring.
I would still have King on the announce table doing what he does best. He can do both, like when Vince announced. When there is a dirty win in some way, he could just stand up and restart the match, or something like that...
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Well, it's a working progress... And my idea of the next GM, odds are a LOT of you would disagree. So yeah, here's a question for you, one easy question...
1) Who should be the permanent GM of Monday Night Raw?
Fire Marshall Bill
Let me show ya somethin!!!
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Well that's what I think might work anyway, imagine King's triumphant return be when Vince announces him as the new General Manager of Monday Night Raw. You could have Vickie and Paul in the ring arguing over who should be the general manager and King can come out with and tell them to get out of his ring.
I would still have King on the announce table doing what he does best. He can do both, like when Vince announced. When there is a dirty win in some way, he could just stand up and restart the match, or something like that...
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Well, it's a working progress... And my idea of the next GM, odds are a LOT of you would disagree. So yeah, here's a question for you, one easy question...
1) Who should be the permanent GM of Monday Night Raw?
I actually wouldn't have a problem with that for a few reasons. 1) The current announce teams are just better. 2) With possible future health issues, I think it would be easier on Lawler since he could do shorter segments, some of them taped. 3) It would be a great addition to his return. Not that he'd need it being that he's coming back from a heart attack on live television though.
The negatives are that 1) Face GM's, like heel GM's get old fast. People around here yearn for heel GM's strictly because they want everyone heel (except maybe DB who can face the entire roster all on his own). Neutral, mostly invisible GM's are much better. 2) I don't think the idea of him being an announcer and GM is plausible. He'd be too visible and could easily inject himself into any storyline because he's right there. The only upside to that would be if it caused more clean finishes. 3) The constant turnover in GM's has already gotten very old. Pick someone and stick with them. Ya know, even if they did pick Lawler and stuck with him I wouldn't have an issue with it. But Lawler would likely be a heavy face, meaning eventually he'd lose his power and we'd go through the same thing again, except next time a heel.
Not a bad idea though. Could make for an even greater return.
As for ideas on who it should be, I don't really care as long as they stick with the person long term. There's talk of Ric Flair coming back...but he'd probably be put on TV too much for a GM.
I think the GM can be anybody as long as they aren't on TV too much. This may seem kind of random but I liked Armando Estrada as WWECW GM because he was GM for a while but the show didn't completely revolve around him. He would show up to do heel things once in a while to get a face over (lol remember Colin Delaney?) but he didn't eat up the entire show
I don't think Lawler would get stale as a GM unless they follow the current trend and have him on tv for way too long every week, in which case, anybody would get stale & why not let it be Lawler instead of somebody like Vickie. She already had a (LONG) run as SD Gm in 08. It would be a nice return for him too, so I think this is a good idea
I don't think if he is the GM he should be commentating as well though, that might be a little bit much. Maybe he can join commentary once in a while for a big match or for PPVs, but to give him as much time on RAW as possible would just make him a stale personality more quickly, imo
thatcrazybiatch
Dark Match Jobber
does anyone think that since she was with edge she could of been more?? sure shes done wonders for ziggler but she should have moved on by now.
easily the most hated heel of the last 10 years, id like to see her running a stable of heels like paul E only an actual stable of sorts
easily the most hated heel of the last 10 years, id like to see her running a stable of heels like paul E only an actual stable of sorts
Steve-O-Matt
Pre-Show Stalwart
Underutilised? She's the general manager of Raw! And don't say she's the 'supervising bla'h bla'h bla'h', because nothing bugs me more then those bulls*** backstage titles they're putting on everyone. Eve, the executive administrator? Do they even know what means? That means she should be a desk all day on the computer for the company, but because it sounds important... Y'know what, I'm losing track here.
Vickie is being over-used in my opinion. Now, not everyone will agree, but how's been involved with every show, had time to talk on every show... Well, I think it pushes the limit by a lot. I don't mind Vickie, but after a while her shrill voice gets to me and her huge screaming tantrums, no one wants to see that I hope. And now that she's the GM of Raw, we gonna see loads of her, so there is no way they are underutilising her. They're are definitely using her for the wrong reasons. In the sense that Dolph, does not need her any more, he's a main eventer on the edge of becoming a world champion. Now, I am not a Ziggler fan at all, personally I feel the IRC goes a bit over-board about him all the time. I do like his matches, but where is his voice? He's soon to be a world champion, unless he's over 7ft tall, he doesn't NEED a manager, someone else can now benefit from Vickie, maybe more then one superstar?
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Long story short, she's being used completely wrong, they said they wanted Vickie to have her own stable of superstars, do that then. Lose Ziggler, since he needs to go it alone now and pick up some guys like the PTP or Heath Slater or someone that can progress a lot more in the WWE with her. DON'T have her in her own storylines with John Cena where she tries to 'prove', he's been using a 6th move on AJ, I am hating that storyline. Everyone knows Vickie's been making out with all of her 'clients' on camera, so why is the WWE treating the audience like children, pretending we didn't notice... So there you have it:
- Vickie manager
- New people to manage
- Lose Dolph
- Have maybe... 4-5 guys?
- No more personal storylines (We all remember the Santina one)
Vickie is being over-used in my opinion. Now, not everyone will agree, but how's been involved with every show, had time to talk on every show... Well, I think it pushes the limit by a lot. I don't mind Vickie, but after a while her shrill voice gets to me and her huge screaming tantrums, no one wants to see that I hope. And now that she's the GM of Raw, we gonna see loads of her, so there is no way they are underutilising her. They're are definitely using her for the wrong reasons. In the sense that Dolph, does not need her any more, he's a main eventer on the edge of becoming a world champion. Now, I am not a Ziggler fan at all, personally I feel the IRC goes a bit over-board about him all the time. I do like his matches, but where is his voice? He's soon to be a world champion, unless he's over 7ft tall, he doesn't NEED a manager, someone else can now benefit from Vickie, maybe more then one superstar?
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Long story short, she's being used completely wrong, they said they wanted Vickie to have her own stable of superstars, do that then. Lose Ziggler, since he needs to go it alone now and pick up some guys like the PTP or Heath Slater or someone that can progress a lot more in the WWE with her. DON'T have her in her own storylines with John Cena where she tries to 'prove', he's been using a 6th move on AJ, I am hating that storyline. Everyone knows Vickie's been making out with all of her 'clients' on camera, so why is the WWE treating the audience like children, pretending we didn't notice... So there you have it:
- Vickie manager
- New people to manage
- Lose Dolph
- Have maybe... 4-5 guys?
- No more personal storylines (We all remember the Santina one)
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
I doubt that. For one thing, she's not a wrestler and it usually takes physical involvement to become the most hated. Look at CM Punk; what he says is obnoxious, but it's what he does that makes him a despised heel.
If anything, Vickie's an annoyance. Yes, she's somehow carved out a degree of success with her routine (and I can't help thinking that she's probably not that good an actress..... more of her real-life personality is thrown in there than we know). Yet, she's simply reciting lines written for her by Creative; it's not as if she's come up with a original formula for success.
Use her more? I don't think that would be wise; obnoxious works for awhile in limited doses, but to build programs around her would become tiresome very quickly. An example was her "marriage" to Edge. We saw so much of her during that program that I thought I would gag.
Let her do what she does now. Let the fans boo. That's enough.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
I'm not seeing how she's underutilized at all. She's currently back in the position of being a heel on-air authority figure, a role that she's excelled at whenever she's had it. Before that, she was Dolph Ziggler's manager for a couple of years, resulting in regular exposure and television time.
Vickie Guerrero is one of the most over heels wrestling has seen in a decade. Whenever she comes out and gets on the mic, she generates intense heat that's rivaled by very few in all of wrestling. Considering that Vickie isn't a wrestler, has never been a wrestler and will almost certainly never be a wrestler, I think she's ultimately risen as far as a non-wrestler can in WWE.
I think Vickie is doing just fine where she is and with what she brings to the table. If WWE needs to get someone over as a heel, pair them with Vickie Guerrero. If WWE needs to get someone over as a face, put them against Vickie. Associating with Vickie seems to have helped out Dolph Ziggler & AJ quite a bit. There's nothing at all wrong with the current formula for Vickie. She ain't broke, so don't try to fix her.
Vickie Guerrero is one of the most over heels wrestling has seen in a decade. Whenever she comes out and gets on the mic, she generates intense heat that's rivaled by very few in all of wrestling. Considering that Vickie isn't a wrestler, has never been a wrestler and will almost certainly never be a wrestler, I think she's ultimately risen as far as a non-wrestler can in WWE.
I think Vickie is doing just fine where she is and with what she brings to the table. If WWE needs to get someone over as a heel, pair them with Vickie Guerrero. If WWE needs to get someone over as a face, put them against Vickie. Associating with Vickie seems to have helped out Dolph Ziggler & AJ quite a bit. There's nothing at all wrong with the current formula for Vickie. She ain't broke, so don't try to fix her.
Vickie underutilized....? I respectfully disagree. Quite the contrary, honestly. She has been used far too much in her current roles. We could use some other heel managers and heel GM's. She already reached ehr full potential a few years ago. When she was with Edge in La Familia and the whole EXCUSE ME thing began to take off, she was just being a heel GM. The more the fans heard her speak the more annoyed and frustrated they got with her. She's been in these authority roles long enough and her managing Ziggler has run its course. It's hard to believe that it has lasted this long without Ziggler leaving. I got tired of it a long time ago and Ziggler needs to move on himself.
Once again.... Vickie reached her full potential. What else could she possibly be? She's not a wrestler so she will never hold the Divas Championship. She's been a GM and a manager. There's really nothing else that she can accomplish so there is no argument that she has been underutilized. As for running a stable, she ran La Familia with Edge 4 years ago. That may be one people try to forget, but it still happened and Vickie helped run it. There really isn't much for her to move on to, she should find another heel to manage and not be GM (regardless of the "fancy" title they gave her it's still a GM role) so that she can do something different.
Once again.... Vickie reached her full potential. What else could she possibly be? She's not a wrestler so she will never hold the Divas Championship. She's been a GM and a manager. There's really nothing else that she can accomplish so there is no argument that she has been underutilized. As for running a stable, she ran La Familia with Edge 4 years ago. That may be one people try to forget, but it still happened and Vickie helped run it. There really isn't much for her to move on to, she should find another heel to manage and not be GM (regardless of the "fancy" title they gave her it's still a GM role) so that she can do something different.
In professional wrestling, their have always been a small batch of stars that you thought could never become the opposite status (face/heel). However, in the past 5 years, I would say about 2 or 3 stars have swtiched status and made me believe that they should have been their status all the time.
Now onto perhaps one if not the most reacted star in the company.. Vickie Guerrero. You cannot deny that she doesn't get major heat no matter where she goes, all she has to do is say 2 words and the crowd rip her down. I know that she was a face for a short time when she started during the Eddie/Rey feud but when she went heel, she was destined to stay as a heel. It's 5/6 years later and Vickie still gets major heat and could do for years to come.
So my question is.. could Vickie Guerrero ever pull of being a face and could the crowd believe that she is a face?
Now onto perhaps one if not the most reacted star in the company.. Vickie Guerrero. You cannot deny that she doesn't get major heat no matter where she goes, all she has to do is say 2 words and the crowd rip her down. I know that she was a face for a short time when she started during the Eddie/Rey feud but when she went heel, she was destined to stay as a heel. It's 5/6 years later and Vickie still gets major heat and could do for years to come.
So my question is.. could Vickie Guerrero ever pull of being a face and could the crowd believe that she is a face?
Vickie turning face would be very difficult for most fans to accept. She is someone that they have grown to love to hate. If she as much as speaks a word, she is boo'ed out the building due to her annoying voice. She will never find a face counterpart to how easily she angers fans with EXCUSE ME. It's much easier for a fan favorite to make the turn into a fully evil heel. For a hated heel to try to go through a full on face turn, it's a bit more difficult. They have to win over fans who dislike them and that's even tougher than becoming over as a face upon the wrestler's debut.
Much like in real life if you liked someone and they did something to break your trust or hurt you, it's much easier to keep hating them until you view them negatively rather than accept a full apology and let them be a close friend again. A similar concept comes into play here with face/heel status. Vickie has a LONG way to go if she'd ever want fans to enjoy seeing her onscreen without the thought of boo'ing her entering their minds. Those who legit hate her or simply love to hate her have gotten so used to it that it would be very tough to want to see her doing anything else and it not seem weird.
Much like in real life if you liked someone and they did something to break your trust or hurt you, it's much easier to keep hating them until you view them negatively rather than accept a full apology and let them be a close friend again. A similar concept comes into play here with face/heel status. Vickie has a LONG way to go if she'd ever want fans to enjoy seeing her onscreen without the thought of boo'ing her entering their minds. Those who legit hate her or simply love to hate her have gotten so used to it that it would be very tough to want to see her doing anything else and it not seem weird.
matman8540
Ha! I kill me!
I don't see it whatsoever. Although, that doesn't mean it couldn't be done. I mean; think of some of the heels over the years that turned face. Among them; Greg Valentine, Don Muraco, Abdullah the Butcher, The (original) Sheik, Angelo Mosca, and most recently; the Miz. Granted, in the case of the Miz, you started to see glimpses of that over the last few weeks, but still, after seeing the Miz over the last few years, did you think that would ever happen. Just remember, in pro wrestling, very few wrestlers stay heel or face their entire career.
BrockSamson
Dark Match Jobber
I think there is a big difference between "heel" heat and " i am so annoyed by this person I'm changing the channel or getting up and taking a leak" heat. The only thing that would make me like Vickie would be her announcing that she was retiring from WWE and actually doing it.
As for your question, If there was someone people hated more than her and she feuded with them, maybe. I highly doubt I will ever like her in any speaking role though.
I really wish instead of booing her, people would just get up and walk out.
As for your question, If there was someone people hated more than her and she feuded with them, maybe. I highly doubt I will ever like her in any speaking role though.
I really wish instead of booing her, people would just get up and walk out.
Xombi_woof
#1 Weasel Stomper
If they replaced all audio of her voice with the sound of a thousand cats being slowly lowered into a rusty wood chipper, it would be a small step in that direction. But, like someone already said, we've been so used to hating her that it'd be almost impossible. I guess maybe a feud with Linda might, I say MIGHT, pull it off. But, honestly, who'd really want to see that?
the only time people cared was when Eddie was still alive and she had her daughters by her side, since Eddie passed and she turned heel, she's is not retrievable at this point UNLESS Eddie is brought up again or her daughters are reintroduced and they are threatened by someone and she does a complete 180 to protect them.
as for her being one of the best heels, NO.... Being highly annoying and grating to the point of changing channels every time she speaks does not make you a good heel. She is heelish yes but she is not engaging. Only good thing she does, like Vince is being open to looking like a fool.
as for her being one of the best heels, NO.... Being highly annoying and grating to the point of changing channels every time she speaks does not make you a good heel. She is heelish yes but she is not engaging. Only good thing she does, like Vince is being open to looking like a fool.
CuddleBuns84
The Wrestling Sex Machine
To be honest, the main reason she is still around, is to help Zigler.... Still!
For her to go face. She needs to be used maybe, once a month. With a popular announcement. Or turn on Zigler.
I'm not going to lie. She is good at what she does. Very good. Her Mic work is golden. She knows how to piss people off. But how many times can she be a GM or Manager. You can only do this so much.
Face turn is out of the question.
For her to go face. She needs to be used maybe, once a month. With a popular announcement. Or turn on Zigler.
I'm not going to lie. She is good at what she does. Very good. Her Mic work is golden. She knows how to piss people off. But how many times can she be a GM or Manager. You can only do this so much.
Face turn is out of the question.
sanefan_har
The Crimson Kestrel
Doubt it. But we need characters like Vickie. The kind of characters that you really just love to hate. She should stay heel. And there is no way in hell, she would work as a face. Vickie will never turn heel, even if there are wrestlers who draw better heel heat.
Yep! And I'll tell you how I would do it!
I'd have Bret Hart come back and some how get Vickie tied to a chair in front of a TV. Bret could then say something along the lines of Eddie used to not care what these people think. Then look at how he changed and look at how things changed. They could incorporate Eddie into this. I know it sounds terrible but it would be done the RIGHT way. Have her be forced to sit thru matches and interviews and promos etc etc. Then slowly they could show Vickie's "mood" change. She could start to get the face perspective. Then from there she could approach Dolph about it and try to get him to understand the face perspective. We don't necessarily need a Vickie/Dolph split to get either one of them face. They could turn face together it would just need some outside assistance. Call me crazy but if done that way or in a way that was seen as respectful and a "genuine" realization of truth I could see people actually getting behind her. That and eliminate her constant screaming into the microphone.
I'd have Bret Hart come back and some how get Vickie tied to a chair in front of a TV. Bret could then say something along the lines of Eddie used to not care what these people think. Then look at how he changed and look at how things changed. They could incorporate Eddie into this. I know it sounds terrible but it would be done the RIGHT way. Have her be forced to sit thru matches and interviews and promos etc etc. Then slowly they could show Vickie's "mood" change. She could start to get the face perspective. Then from there she could approach Dolph about it and try to get him to understand the face perspective. We don't necessarily need a Vickie/Dolph split to get either one of them face. They could turn face together it would just need some outside assistance. Call me crazy but if done that way or in a way that was seen as respectful and a "genuine" realization of truth I could see people actually getting behind her. That and eliminate her constant screaming into the microphone.
Mustang Sally
Sells seashells by the seashore
Even if turning her good could somehow be done, I can't imagine why the company would want to.
Her "talent" is as an irritant. She delivers no inspiring messages, nothing positive ever emanates from what she does.....only negative. She has the screechy voice and abrasive manner of a witch; how she could convert that into face status is beyond me......but more than that, she's already managed to carve out a unique persona for herself; she's the unattractive woman functioning in a company of Barbie dolls. She may come off as ridiculous, but there's no one else like her......so leave it alone.
Her "talent" is as an irritant. She delivers no inspiring messages, nothing positive ever emanates from what she does.....only negative. She has the screechy voice and abrasive manner of a witch; how she could convert that into face status is beyond me......but more than that, she's already managed to carve out a unique persona for herself; she's the unattractive woman functioning in a company of Barbie dolls. She may come off as ridiculous, but there's no one else like her......so leave it alone.
I've just come off a wrestling forum site and saw a comment got me interested, so I thought i'd do a thread for it..
Now, anyone remember back in 2000 when Stephanie Mcmahon had no wrestling experience and she won the womens championship from Jacqueline on Smackdown and since then for a while, she did anything and used anyone to keep her title?
Well I do and I thought it was a fantastic way to A) Spark interest in the division and B) Give one babyface character alot of attention.
Now, onto todays diva division, where AJ and Vickie are the most used divas and are getting more attention and air time than all of the divas combined. Well, I had a thought..
"Why not have Vickie as the champion and like Stephanie, she would use her power to do anything and use anyone to keep her gold?"
I think this would be a fantastic opportunity to spark some interest back into the division for a while (maybe 3/4 months). Obviously, Vickie isn't a wrestler by any means but she could use Tamina and the other heel divas to keep the gold around her waist. She would not defend the title on the PPV's, more so the RAW before the PPV. After the 3/4 months, have a diva at the time that they want to put as a top babyface and beat VG for the belt or have the other heel divas have enough of Vickie for using them and demand a battle royal for the gold, then have a babyface win after elimination Vickie last.
I know this may seem very unlikely but it's something I'd like to see. Your thoughts?
Now, anyone remember back in 2000 when Stephanie Mcmahon had no wrestling experience and she won the womens championship from Jacqueline on Smackdown and since then for a while, she did anything and used anyone to keep her title?
Well I do and I thought it was a fantastic way to A) Spark interest in the division and B) Give one babyface character alot of attention.
Now, onto todays diva division, where AJ and Vickie are the most used divas and are getting more attention and air time than all of the divas combined. Well, I had a thought..
"Why not have Vickie as the champion and like Stephanie, she would use her power to do anything and use anyone to keep her gold?"
I think this would be a fantastic opportunity to spark some interest back into the division for a while (maybe 3/4 months). Obviously, Vickie isn't a wrestler by any means but she could use Tamina and the other heel divas to keep the gold around her waist. She would not defend the title on the PPV's, more so the RAW before the PPV. After the 3/4 months, have a diva at the time that they want to put as a top babyface and beat VG for the belt or have the other heel divas have enough of Vickie for using them and demand a battle royal for the gold, then have a babyface win after elimination Vickie last.
I know this may seem very unlikely but it's something I'd like to see. Your thoughts?
I would much rather see this play out with Vickie having a heel diva wrestling for her. Vickie should never hold the Divas Championship. Not only would it mean more annoying promos of hers but also MATCHES. Remember the divas match from Wrestlemania 26? I have no desire to ever see Vickie work another match. However she did seemingly find her calling as a heel manager. With that being said, what I would want to see is a version of this idea where a heel diva protege of Vickie's holds the belt rather than Vickie herself.
If a heel diva was working for Vickie and held the Divas Championship for AJ to eventually overcome given the ongoing angle, that would be far less painful to watch. Vickie can still abuse her authority to keep the belt on her protege, the heel diva gets to work with Vickie to earn more heel heat, AJ gets a great way to win the belt herself, and finally the best reason of all; Vickie would not have to work any matches herself. It's an idea worth talking about, but do keep in mind how annoying Vickie is. I like to rant about the Divas Championship as much as the next guy but I never want to see Vickie hold it. The divas are fantastic in the ring compared to her, and that's saying quite a bit.
Mentioning Eddie.
That's the only way I could ever see a live crowd giving Vickie anything resembling a positive reaction, but Chavo has already beaten that horse to death over the years.
Like it or not, Vickie Guerrero is an instant heat magnet. Her mere presence will bring a strong set of boos out of any live crowd, and sometimes, Vickie won't have to speak a word to receive heat. Re-inserting Vickie into any authority position has become WWE's #1 counter-productive/reset move (using Hornswoggle as a fail-safe would be #2). It can become annoying at times, and I enjoy Vickie more in a manager type of role, because it's something different. But I wouldn't try and turn her face under any circumstances. The screechy voice, her perfect bitchy attitude, and the evil laugh. Vickie has fallen into a real comfort zone as one of WWE's more prominent heel characters, and I don't see a real reason to change anything.
That's the only way I could ever see a live crowd giving Vickie anything resembling a positive reaction, but Chavo has already beaten that horse to death over the years.
Like it or not, Vickie Guerrero is an instant heat magnet. Her mere presence will bring a strong set of boos out of any live crowd, and sometimes, Vickie won't have to speak a word to receive heat. Re-inserting Vickie into any authority position has become WWE's #1 counter-productive/reset move (using Hornswoggle as a fail-safe would be #2). It can become annoying at times, and I enjoy Vickie more in a manager type of role, because it's something different. But I wouldn't try and turn her face under any circumstances. The screechy voice, her perfect bitchy attitude, and the evil laugh. Vickie has fallen into a real comfort zone as one of WWE's more prominent heel characters, and I don't see a real reason to change anything.