ECW: San Antonio Sub-Region

[Danmen001]

You're absolutely correct. Jeff Hardy doesn't have "just some body". He has a body, that's been so riddled with pain and wrapped in torment, that he's one missed move away from seriously injuring himself.

I don't see why he wouldn't just keep on going. He hasn't had anything serious in all this time, so I don't see why a couple of matches in a tournament on a wreestling forum is going to put him on the shelves.

The point is, Lesnar is healthy. And capable of inflicting so much damage, that it's career threatening. Hardy, in his prime, still put himself in the worst positions for inflicting pain upon himself, if not more, than his opponent.

Well, "Risk vs. Reward", in other words, in a good spot, 50/50 he hits it. He wins or loses. Wanna toss a coin? .

You're dead-set on this knee to the groin business. You're just an evil, evil man, you know that.

And who's to say Hardy can even inflict enough damage to Lesnar's groin, to roll him up for a quick 3? Some low blows aren't that effective.

*Insert your Will doesn't have testicles joke here.* Lol.

Still, within reason, if Jeff simply takes a moment and feints, then shoots a full force knee shot to the groin, and rolls him up, is it out of reason that he could win like that? Jeff is far more likely to do that than Lesnar, especially if you go to the point when he (Jeff) was a "pyscho".

Exceptions to the rule are always there. Just like Mysterio defeating Nash. But it doesn't happen a lot.

It does happen though. And it could happen in Hardy vs. Lesnar.

Then consider Lesnar a whole fricken storm front that's moving in. Because, (pun intended) he'll level Hardy with an F-5. To the point of Hardy being nothing more, than a Whisper in the Wind.

That was clever. If only words won matches.

NO, we're in a battle of "Will's using logic on why the big massive destructable guy is going to rip my glorified cruiserweight a new ass, and I gotta defend him somehow, but a logical theory of knee to the groin."

As above.

I hardly said that. You're taking the opinion I had, mixed with the knowledge of knowing not everyone will think like I do, and trying to play it off as me not having faith in Edge. Which is wrong.

I was joking, in part, actually. But now that you bring it up...

Edge, does not have equal power to Lesnar. Obviously, as Edge can't belly to belly Mark Henry, I'm sure.

However, in the UK ppv match, Edge went toe-to-toe with Lesnar, and utilized all his abilities to almost (and he would've, if not for Heyman) defeat Lesnar.

Heyman won't be a factor in this tournament.

Okay then, Edge would have beaten Lesnar.

Then why are you saying Jeff can't beat Lesnar, because if Edge can, Jeff can. Jeff has won, and many other times almost (until interference prevailed) won against Edge. So, if Edge > Lesnar, and Jeff > Edge, then Jeff > Lesnar. Maths, literally.

You also said Heyman won't be a factor. Heyman, was the reason Edge lost. So, if Heyman isn't a factor in this match, than Jeff should win, because there will be no interference against him.

You're right, IF the offensive sky moves connect, I'm sure they work just as well. But they don't call it "High risk, High reward" for nothing. And thats what I'm trying to tell you.

And if the reward pays off, he wins. And yes, if they don't, he'll have taken a bad bump. Chances are, he'll get back up anyway.

Look at almost any match Hardy's been involved in, especially all of his gimmick matches. Hardy takes every risk in the book, because it's the only way he can win those matches. You say he can work well with weapons. I say he has to use them, to stay in the match.

It's the only way he can win? BAHAHAHAHA. Come now Will, that's silly. High-flyer is simply a style, you've said so yourself.. I know you said weapons as well, but if there's weapons available, it would be stupid not to lose them.

But Hardy always, ALWAYS fucks up at some point in every match. Lesnar isn't just any regular opponent. He'll capitalize, he's smarter than you give him credit for.

Always is a stretch. True, he might take a missed spot (risk vs. reward, he gets the risk), but he'll get back up anyway and still win the match.

Okay, Lesnar is smarter than I give him credit for. But Jeff's still smarter. And it's not like I gave Lesnar's brains much credit to start with.

People are going to naturally give Shawn Michaels more credit against Brock Lesnar, because Shawn Michaels has proven more often than not, that even as an underdog, he'll find a way to gain the victory. Especially against bigger guys.

Hardy can do the same. It'd be a good to point out the Jeff has beaten HBK as well.

Hardy, on the other hand, can't always win in major match situations. Wow, he defeated Edge after Triple H. did the work, to finally "win the big one". But when that was turned to a single's match, outside interference or not, Edge won right back.

Triple H didn't do all the work. Before I go on, you know what else happened in that match? Edge speared Jeff through a table. And Jeff still won.

And yes, getting hit over the head with a steel chair, after a screwjob by his brother sure is a triumphant over the top clean win by Edge. That was sarcasm, by the way.

Triple H. and Hardy have had some nice feuds, but in the end, with exception of a fluke Intercontinental win early on.. that was rematched, and squashed a few days later.. Hardy has NEVER win an impressive match, over a powerful Superstar, in a big moment situation. (Taker doesn't count, it was a Smackdown match)

Oh yeah, and I'm guessing this tournament is big moment situation too right? Ha.

This tournament, is considered a "big moment" situation.

Well I'll be damned.

Obviously, one and done. If you lose, to my knowledge you're out. No more second chances. Hardy has only one "the big one" once, and that was off the work of someone else.

No more second chances? Bad luck for Lesnar than, eh? Guess Hardy'll have to make it 2 moments.

These arguments against Brock and pro Hardy are just terrible. Hardy beat the Undertaker, yet people forget that the Undertaker beat Hardy in a ladder match, his specialty.

Back in 2002. And even then, he was oh so close. Back when he sucked.

^Mr. Hardy's Future

I'm not calling you Mr Shocky is that's where this is headed...

 

[Blade]

Batista has a better chance than Hardy.
But if he goes against Lesnar or HBK, he won't win....

Lesnar was a better monster than Batista ever was, and all Batista's moveset really contains is a few power moves. Spinebuster, Powerbomb, perhaps the odd powerslam.

And HBK will be able to out-manuvere (how's it spelt?) Batista with such ease...

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Well, it looks like I'll be having debates with HBK-aholic and Uncle Sam in this region. In order for Liger to get to the Sweet Sixteen, he has to beat both HBK and Brock Lesnar. I'll be in my study formulating my plan of attack. Mark my words: Liger will win this region. Given that Hardy is currently my favorite WWE wrestler, I'm going to have a little bit of remorse putting him away. But, Hardy is, unfortunately, no Jushin Liger.

 

[NSL]

Interesting. Very interesting.

Liger got a good draw by landing in ECW, and should be able to work his way in to the bracket finals. I'm not re-iterating my argument against HBK, but Liger would beat him, in ECW at least. He also shouldn't have any problems beating Batistia anywhere, much less ECW. If he can make it to the finals, it'll be interesting to see who he faces.

If it's Hardy, he could win, but Hardy's reputation may be too much to overcome. If it's Lesnar, he's just out-matched. He can do any move he wants, but he won't win unless he takes the match to it's hardcore limits.

If he beats either of them, he's suddenly in the Sweet 16, and tdigle gets his wish. He could fare well in almost any gimmick match, except for the barbwire match. He'd have the same problem as Hardy, and that's the limited offense.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Liger can make it to the final four in this region. Always though he was a great wrestler and picked a good draw here. I believe he can beat Jeff Hardy and has a good chance against HBK. I still see Brock winning this region though but there will be some good matches along the road.

 

[CENAtion]

Even with the addition of Batista, i still believe this region is going to come down to HBK and Brock Lesnar. Batista adds the potential of an upset because he is a big physical guy who could probably use the rules to his advantage. But he's going to have to go up HBK, a guy who is still actively wrestling. If Batista drew a guy who is retired i think his odds would be alot better to get himself a showdown with Brock.

A Batista vs. HBK match is intriging but can Batista really go with HBK in his prime. Batista lacks any technical skill or speed skill. Sure he has power, but HBK in his prime was just so damn good at everything he did. And the man had a nasty streak in him, and if you dont believe me just watch HBK vs. Mankind from the Mind Games ppv. HBK in his prime, and even now as well, can bring it almost like no other when he desires too.

To me this region is still Brock Lesnar vs. Shawn Michaels

 

[Shocky]

This just got interesting with the addition of Magnum and Jerry Lynn to the mix of things. Batista is in the top half with three guys that will have to use their speed against the big man. I think Liger really has no shot against the Animal. Jerry Lynn vs. HBK is an interesting matchup, but HBK will probably come out on top in the end. In my opinion, Batista is going to win the top half of the bracket. In their stretcher match, Batista dominated, and i mean dominated HBK. HBK has beaten big men, but lets' not forget he's lost his fair share of matches, and you're talking about going against a guy that beat both Taker and Triple H in a Cell.

The bottom half is interesting as well. Magnum is as legit of a bad ass as they come, and he'll get down and dirty with Brock in what is sure to be a blood bath. Brock Lesnar is essentially the Magnum TA of the 21st century, but his career was cut short due to other reasons. Orndorff could very well knock off Jeff Hardy, but probably won't. In the end, i think that Brock after a scare from Magnum, walks threw the rest of this subregion.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

This just got interesting with the addition of Magnum and Jerry Lynn to the mix of things. Batista is in the top half with three guys that will have to use their speed against the big man. I think Liger really has no shot against the Animal. Jerry Lynn vs. HBK is an interesting matchup, but HBK will probably come out on top in the end. In my opinion, Batista is going to win the top half of the bracket. In their stretcher match, Batista dominated, and i mean dominated HBK. HBK has beaten big men, but lets' not forget he's lost his fair share of matches, and you're talking about going against a guy that beat both Taker and Triple H in a Cell.

The bottom half is interesting as well. Magnum is as legit of a bad ass as they come, and he'll get down and dirty with Brock in what is sure to be a blood bath. Brock Lesnar is essentially the Magnum TA of the 21st century, but his career was cut short due to other reasons. Orndorff could very well knock off Jeff Hardy, but probably won't. In the end, i think that Brock after a scare from Magnum, walks threw the rest of this subregion.

How so? Pardon my French, but Batista isn't mobile for shit, while Liger is pretty damn fast. This wouldn't really be an issue if Liger was fast but relatively weak (like Rey Mysterio, Jr.). However, he is one of only a few cruiserweights that can actually pick wrestlers of Batista's size up. And, the fact that they are fighting under extreme rules only makes Batista a more conquerable opponent. I'm only worried about two wrestlers here: HBK and Brock Lesnar.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I don't understand why anyone wouldn't think Shawn Michaels couldn't overcome the odds. Shocky, you said Batista dominated Shawn Michaels in their stretcher match, but the fact is.. that was when Batista may of by rights been in his prime, comparable to a guy who's beyond his, with a broken back, and a handful of other injuries preventing him from being 100%.

Shawn Michaels knows how to pull out victories, in unwinning situations. He overcame the monster Vader, on 3 different occasions at Summerslam. He defeated Mankind, or at least would've if interference wouldn't of stopped the match moments before he was on-route to winning anyways. And he's defeated the Undertaker, whether it was with help or not.

What do all of those things have in common, that needs to be remembered here? Shawn Michaels takes a huge ass-beating. But he stays in the fight, and in the end, finds a way to win. DO NOT OVERLOOK SHAWN MICHAELS!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Shawn's going to have it tough against crusierweights like Liger and Lynn and a power guy in Batista but if anybody can advance he will. I still have Brock winning this region but it's not a guarantee that HBK can make it out of there to face him.

 

[NSL]

Pinch me. I'm dreaming. Sorry Becca, but HBK really has met his match here. Jerry Lynn is my guy for this tournament, and I've lucked out by getting an ECW draw, in the weakest ECW Bracket, outside of the Lesnar v. Hardy match.

All the arguments I've heard against Lynn, were that he used the extreme rules to his advantage, and was only good for "spots". This is his environment. He's "The New F'n Show". If the fans don't vote for their favorites, but who would actually win, there's no way the top half isn't Lynn v. Liger in the finals. tdigle, I know you love Liger. In a pure shoot wrestling match, I'd say Liger has the edge. But, this is EC F'n W, and Lynn wins. There's nothing Liger can do, that Lynn can't counter, so it'll come down to the extreme rules, and Lynn has a clear edge.

I watched the Falls Count Anywhere Match between Orndorff and Foley, and was very impressed by Mr. Wonderful's use of the hardcore environment. But, he won't, and shouldn't, beat Hardy here.

Like Shocky said, Lesnar will get a fight from Magnum T.A., but should go on to face Hardy. Hardy's still my guy here, and the dream match of Hardy v. Lynn in their prime should be the final.

Based on everything I've said about both men, I'll still take Lynn, and not because I'm supporting him. Lesnar can't counter everything Hardy does. He can out-power him, but Hardy can take it. Lynn can counter, and avoid, anything Hardy does, and can take just as bad of a beating. Neither one of these guys beats Edge in the next round, but Lynn wins this bracket.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Oi, you up there. Don't say Sorry Becca to me, I've explained plenty of times why HBK can and will win this region. He's done it before, and he beat a lot tougher competition than Jerry F'kin Lynn. Shawn Michaels can work in a hardcore/extreme environment, as well as put on a match that is full of amazing technical skill, AND a match which will have the audience on the edge of their seat. Just because this is not HBK's norm, do not count him out!

 

[NSL]

Oi, you up there. Don't say Sorry Becca to me, I've explained plenty of times why HBK can and will win this region.

I've explained why he won't. He's out of his league here, especially now that he has to face a true ECW wrestler.

He's done it before, and he beat a lot tougher competition than Jerry F'kin Lynn.

Not in ECW. Not in the company that Jerry Lynn was carrying while trying to put over RVD. This is Lynn's environment. Like I said before, there's nothing HBK can do, that Lynn can't counter. the match is going to come down to who uses the extreme rules better. That's Lynn.

Shawn Michaels can work in a hardcore/extreme environment, as well as put on a match that is full of amazing technical skill, AND a match which will have the audience on the edge of their seat.

I didn't know this ever decided the winner of a match

Just because this is not HBK's norm, do not count him out!

Oh, trust me. I'm not.

I'm counting him out, because he's going to lose. He had an outside shot against guys like Liger and Batista. But, he wasn't going to beat Hardy or Lesnar in an ECW match, and he certainly won't beat Lynn. Not if people vote on who would really win.

HBK has too many fans who will vote for him, without actually thinking about who would win. He's got name recognition, and a bunch of fancy titles, but he won't be able to pull this off. If he wins the first round match, we'll debate this then.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I've explained why he won't. He's out of his league here, especially now that he has to face a true ECW wrestler.

Shawn > Jerry Lynn. Easily.

Not in ECW. Not in the company that Jerry Lynn was carrying while trying to put over RVD. This is Lynn's environment. Like I said before, there's nothing HBK can do, that Lynn can't counter. the match is going to come down to who uses the extreme rules better. That's Lynn.

I'd like to see Lynn counyer the Sweet Chin Music..Shawn needs just one second to hit that when Lynn's back is turned. I don't know when it became a skill to be able to hit someone with a chair though.

I didn't know this ever decided the winner of a match

Simply explaining Shawn's greatness

Oh, trust me. I'm not.

Yes, you are.

I'm counting him out, because he's going to lose. He had an outside shot against guys like Liger and Batista. But, he wasn't going to beat Hardy or Lesnar in an ECW match, and he certainly won't beat Lynn. Not if people vote on who would really win.

That person being Shawn Michaels.

HBK has too many fans who will vote for him, without actually thinking about who would win. He's got name recognition, and a bunch of fancy titles, but he won't be able to pull this off. If he wins the first round match, we'll debate this then.

HBK is awesome, he can defeat an ECW original because he can play Hardcore. He's proved it before, be being a part of some of the biggest gimmick/hardcore matches in history. HBK fans are awesome .

 

[NSL]

Shawn > Jerry Lynn. Easily.

I'd like to see Lynn counyer the Sweet Chin Music..Shawn needs just one second to hit that when Lynn's back is turned. I don't know when it became a skill to be able to hit someone with a chair though.

Simply explaining Shawn's greatness

Yes, you are.

That person being Shawn Michaels.

HBK is awesome, he can defeat an ECW original because he can play Hardcore. He's proved it before, be being a part of some of the biggest gimmick/hardcore matches in history. HBK fans are awesome .

All you're doing, is re-stating everything you've ever said. "Shawn Michaels is great, and can beat anyone." KB said it best - "HBK is the ultimate jobber."

He's not going to win here. And, as far as Sweet Chin Music, Lynn has taken quite a few of those from Lance Storm, and still managed to kick out.

I'll borrow a Jack Black quote - "You're not hardcore...Unless you live hardcore..."

[youtube]wJ9E_dcsBEw[/youtube]

 

[HBK-aholic]

All you're doing, is re-stating everything you've ever said. "Shawn Michaels is great, and can beat anyone." KB said it best - "HBK is the ultimate jobber."

He's not going to win here. And, as far as Sweet Chin Music, Lynn has taken quite a few of those from Lance Storm, and still managed to kick out.

I'll borrow a Jack Black quote - "You're not hardcore...Unless you live hardcore..."

[youtube]VFsjVpHi00[/youtube]

Eugh please don't turn into Klunder with that shit. Shawn Michaels is not a jobber - not even close. And Shawn is great, and can beat anyone. He's beaten almost every man in the business, and you think Jerry Lynn is going to stop him?

And lol, Lance Storm? Means nothing compared to Shawn Michaels. Both have weaknesses here, but Shawn is good enough to be able to combat those.

 

[NSL]

Eugh please don't turn into Klunder with that shit. Shawn Michaels is not a jobber - not even close. And Shawn is great, and can beat anyone. He's beaten almost every man in the business, and you think Jerry Lynn is going to stop him?

Yes. I do. I'm sure I won't be the only one, especially with this being an extreme rules match.

Just because Shawn is great, and can beat anyone, doesn't mean he will. He's never faced anyone in this kind of match. Meanwhile, Lynn has made a career in matches like this. even moreso than Vader, and we argued that one.

And lol, Lance Storm? Means nothing compared to Shawn Michaels. Both have weaknesses here, but Shawn is good enough to be able to combat those.

Unlike Shawn, Storm's superkick rarely missed. Shawn's does 90% of the time. If you're under-estimating Storm, you have a whole new argument ahead of you. I can defend Lynn as a good wrestler, and can defend him as an extreme wrestler, but I won't deny that it was Storm who was the ultimate "wrestler" in ECW.

I'm not "turning into KB" by saying Shawn is the ultimate jobber. I even said in the "Best Two" series, that HBK always seems to be a part of my favorite matches for a ton of other wrestlers, but I don't have any favorites of HBK's. In all of my favorite matches of his, he's lost. Except for the match against Hart. And, Bret is far better than Shawn. He's made a career of making other people look good. He can't afford to do that in an extreme environment. He's in over his head. If this were any other region, I'd agree HBK is a favorite. I've never been nearly drunk enough to think HBK will win an ECW bracket though.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Yes. I do. I'm sure I won't be the only one, especially with this being an extreme rules match.

People need to be educated on the greatness of Shawn.

Just because Shawn is great, and can beat anyone, doesn't mean he will. He's never faced anyone in this kind of match. Meanwhile, Lynn has made a career in matches like this. even moreso than Vader, and we argued that one.

What, you mean hardcore? Where maybe ladders/chairs will be used? Yeah, Shawn's never done that

Unlike Shawn, Storm's superkick rarely missed. Shawn's does 90% of the time. If you're under-estimating Storm, you have a whole new argument ahead of you. I can defend Lynn as a good wrestler, and can defend him as an extreme wrestler, but I won't deny that it was Storm who was the ultimate "wrestler" in ECW.

Shawn is better than Storm, his kick more powerful. I like Storm, so I'm not trying to say he''s bad. Just that HBK is better.

I've never been nearly drunk enough to think HBK will win an ECW bracket though.

It's happened before! You wouldn't have to be drunk..there's proof. Shawn can win the ECW bracket, and the whole damn tournament!

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

What you don't seem to realize, NSL, is that it does not take an E.C.W. superstar to know how to hit someone in the face with a chair or baseball bat. It also doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to not let your opponent use those same things against you.

Shawn is a smart man. He realizes that he can use weapons, and he will. Do you remember when Shawn went crazy and bashed Cade over the head with 20 chair shots? And who says that Jerry Lynn is even going to be able to use a weapon? Shawn could dominate the entire match inside the ring and neither superstar would leave.

You're relying too much on the style of the match, now, NSL. You're saying that an E.C.W. original should automatically get the win, because it's E.C.W. That shouldn't be the case. Raven will never go over Hulk Hogan (were they to battle in E.C.W.) and Jerry Lynn will never go over Shawn Michaels.

 

[NSL]

People need to be educated on the greatness of Shawn.

We're all pretty educated on Shawn. No need to reiterate "Shawn is great. He can win."

What, you mean hardcore? Where maybe ladders/chairs will be used? Yeah, Shawn's never done that

Ladders, chairs, and a whole ton of other weapons. He's never used a ladder or chair the way they did in ECW. Have you ever watched an old school ECW match? Not even just RVD, Jerry Lynn, and Raven, but like mid-90's ECW? Mike Awesome? Spike Dudley? Mikey Whipwreck? Sandman?

Shawn is better than Storm, his kick more powerful. I like Storm, so I'm not trying to say he''s bad. Just that HBK is better.

Storm's kick was pretty nasty. He won a lot of matches for himself, and others, with that kick. Shawn's just looks fancy, and that's a product of booking. I doubt him standing in the corner, stamping his foot like an angry 3 yr old, really makes the kick more powerful.

It's happened before! You wouldn't have to be drunk..there's proof. Shawn can win the ECW bracket, and the whole damn tournament!

I've covered this. These are new voters, and he's facing different opponents. I won't let him win. He can't win. It's not for him. Even if he gets to th bracket finals, who's to say he'll get a favorable gimmick match?

Alas, he probably wil win. Too many people voting based on a name, and not looking at the facts.

 

[NSL]

What you don't seem to realize, NSL, is that it does not take an E.C.W. superstar to know how to hit someone in the face with a chair or baseball bat. It also doesn't take a whole lot of intelligence to not let your opponent use those same things against you.

I'm not saying it takes an ECW original to know these things. But, they've mastered it. They made their name by wrestling this style. Shawn never had to. We've covered this already.

Shawn is a smart man. He realizes that he can use weapons, and he will. Do you remember when Shawn went crazy and bashed Cade over the head with 20 chair shots? And who says that Jerry Lynn is even going to be able to use a weapon? Shawn could dominate the entire match inside the ring and neither superstar would leave.

I've already said, numerous times, that there's nothing HBK can do, that Lynn can't counter. It's going to come down to who uses the rules, or lack thereof, the best.

You're relying too much on the style of the match, now, NSL. You're saying that an E.C.W. original should automatically get the win, because it's E.C.W. That shouldn't be the case. Raven will never go over Hulk Hogan (were they to battle in E.C.W.) and Jerry Lynn will never go over Shawn Michaels.

Raven would go over Hogan in ECW, the same way Styles went over Hogan in a Ladder Match. Lynn would go over Michaels, in any extreme match.

You're basing who wins off popularity. Hogan and HBK are 10x the name that Lynn or Styles are, so they get the win. It's ludicrous.

In an old school ECW match, this comes down to who knows the environment the best, and who uses the lack of rules to their advantage. Shawn's been in a lot of firsts, but never an extreme rules match. Lynn has been in hundreds. It's his match, not Shawn's.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Eh...ok, this is by far the most ridiculous sub-region of them all. If Dreamer were in this area, he'd be advancing. That's all there is to say about that. On to the actual participants...I will be questioning the integrity of this tournament if the finals does not consist of Brock Lesnar v. Shawn Michaels.

I'm hearing a lot of talk about people not giving Jeff enough credit for the amount of pain his body can take. All I have to say is.....WHO FRIGGIN CARES? Last I checked, matches were not won based on a person's ability to take a lot of freaking pain. Punching bags can withstand a lot of pain, as well, but have you ever seen a punching bag win a fight? No.

Lesnar is a beast and should destroy Hardy (though not quickly because of the pain tolerance), but I'm sure it will be surprisingly close because of the Hardy support 'round these parts.

Batista would have a better shot in a different region, I think. But I'm predicting him to go out against Jushin Thunder Liger. ECW was always a place where foreign stars could shine, and Liger would be no different. Batista would likely get booed out of the freaking arena, and I don't think he could handle the heat.

 

[Rusty]

A tough region here.

Batista automatically loses here, because he hasn't been the Hardcore type of guy. Brock Lesnar could probably kill him anyway in a match. To me, it comes down to Jeff Hardy, Brock Lesnar and Shawn Michaels. Put them 3 in a Extreme Rules match and who would win? Because of this very reason, I actually think Michaels is in serious trouble in an ECW arena.

HBK has the hometown advantage, but definately not the size or hardcore advantage. So it comes down to Jeff Hardy and Lesnar. Unless the Hardy fans vote for their favourite here, I think Brock will win and I'll definately vote for him. Lesnar was huge in his prime and he could dominant his opponent with ease and could even get hardcore when he wanted to. Jeff relies on ladders a little too much, and ladders won't be of great use here compared to other hardcore and dangerous weapons. If it was a ladder or a TLC match, Hardy would win, but it's not the case.

Lesnar pins Jeff 1...2...3 in the final match to progress to the next round.

 

[Tastycles]

Batista automatically loses here, because he hasn't been the Hardcore type of guy.

I completely disagree. Batista hasn't had many gimmick matches, it's true, but he has won most of the ones he has had.

The only gimmick matches I can remember him losing are cage matches to Edge and Jericho and Elimination Chambers to HHH and Undertaker. Not only are these the most removed gimmick matches from ECW ones, but in the first elimination chamber he was going in as HHH's security, and in the other matches he was very close to winning anyway.

But let's take a look at what he has won. He has beaten the highest seed in this region in a stretcher match at One Night Stand last year. He has beaten the HHH in a Hell in a Cell match, JBL in a no holds barred match and he has drawn with The Undertaker in a last man standing match.

But wait, there's more! He has beaten The Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell match, Khali in a Punjabi Prison match and the Dudleys in a tag team table match. This shows above all, that he is incredibly good at beating people in "their match" type. This is why he should go over Jerry Lynn, should he beat Shawn.

The fact that Shawn Michaels has lost to Batista in a similar match, and decisively, should put him over there too. Wierdly, if he finds himself in a ladder match against Hardy, then I think he would go over there too, given this track record. I'm not sure what the other possibilities are in the 4th round, but I think Batsita should get that far, to face Hardy or Lesnar.

I think Shawn is a class above most wrestlers, and delivers excellent gimmick matches as well as normal ones, but he tends to deliver excellent losing performances, and I think he should go out early in an ECW environment.

 

[NSL]

When I saw Hakushi land in this bracket, I said to myself, "I should really refresh myself on this guy before voting...". Then, I realized that it was the bottom half, and whoever won, has a date with destiny aganst Hardy.

Orndorff should, and will win. That doesn't change the fact that he'll lose to Hardy.

I still have Hardy winning this bracket, but the rest of my "Final 4" is Lesnar, Lynn, and Liger.

I'll finally admit, that I won't be saddened if Lesnar wins, but my vote is still going to Hardy. Whoever wins, is going through a tough bracket, and that could give them the edge to win the entire ECW Region.