ECW San Antonio, Round 2, Match 1: #2 Shawn Michaels vs. #31. Jerry Lynn
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HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Well said, Coco the Monkey. After spending hours researching Jerry Lynn, I've come to the conclusion he can't beat Shawn here. To be honest, I don't even think he'd put up that much of a fight. From what I've seen people discuss of this match, he seems very overrated. There's nothing he can do that Shawn wouldn't be able to combat - he's been in plenty of situations which Lynn could present. However, Lynn would not be used to facing the talent of Shawn Michaels, whose speciality is working 'new' environments and taking advantage where he can. Shawn, hands down.
Captain America
Pre-Show Stalwart
Shawn Michaels is one of the best ever. Jerry Lynn is a hard worker and contributed a lot to the wrestling business by helping out a lot of the younger guys, but he's not one of the best ever. There's absolutely no way HBK would lose this match.
In a hardcore environment, Jerry Lynn.
Don't get me wrong, Shawn is a great spot monkey. He takes credit for coming up with the frankly ingenious idea of jumping off a ladder, though I'm sure somebody else actually came up with it.
Lynn, however, is the pure essence of a spot monkey. He knows how to put his body on the line and make it pay off. With someone bigger and sturdier than him, he'd be in trouble.
Someone the likes of HBK in his prime, used to getting the piss beaten out of him by The Undertaker? No problem. Cue crying San Antonio fans.
Don't get me wrong, Shawn is a great spot monkey. He takes credit for coming up with the frankly ingenious idea of jumping off a ladder, though I'm sure somebody else actually came up with it.
Lynn, however, is the pure essence of a spot monkey. He knows how to put his body on the line and make it pay off. With someone bigger and sturdier than him, he'd be in trouble.
Someone the likes of HBK in his prime, used to getting the piss beaten out of him by The Undertaker? No problem. Cue crying San Antonio fans.
Man... talk about a dream match,
Earlier today I watched a fan cam match between Jerry Lynn and Taz from ECW, and Lynn was fucking awesome. Dude could work with literally anyone and have a good match. And he was as tough as they come. To me, Jerry Lynn is honestly the Shawn Michaels of the independent circuit. That's how good he is, in my opinion.
However, as good as Lynn is, I say he's the Shawn Michaels of the independent circuit. Shawn Michaels is not the Jerry Lynn of mainstream wrestling; he's just Shawn fucking Michaels, aka one of the greatest pro wrestlers of all time.
And trust me... it doesn't matter what company this match takes place, HBK goes over, without a doubt. Jerry Lynn's been in some classic and downright brutal matches, but he's never had anything the likes of Hell in the Cell against The Undertaker, like Shawn had. He's never been in the ring with Vader. He's never gone an hour with Bret Hart. He's never had a ladder match against Razor Ramon. No.. Lynn just doesn't win this match. He puts up a great, great fight and the match ends up being tremendous, but at the end of the day, Shawn Michaels gets his hand raised.
Earlier today I watched a fan cam match between Jerry Lynn and Taz from ECW, and Lynn was fucking awesome. Dude could work with literally anyone and have a good match. And he was as tough as they come. To me, Jerry Lynn is honestly the Shawn Michaels of the independent circuit. That's how good he is, in my opinion.
However, as good as Lynn is, I say he's the Shawn Michaels of the independent circuit. Shawn Michaels is not the Jerry Lynn of mainstream wrestling; he's just Shawn fucking Michaels, aka one of the greatest pro wrestlers of all time.
And trust me... it doesn't matter what company this match takes place, HBK goes over, without a doubt. Jerry Lynn's been in some classic and downright brutal matches, but he's never had anything the likes of Hell in the Cell against The Undertaker, like Shawn had. He's never been in the ring with Vader. He's never gone an hour with Bret Hart. He's never had a ladder match against Razor Ramon. No.. Lynn just doesn't win this match. He puts up a great, great fight and the match ends up being tremendous, but at the end of the day, Shawn Michaels gets his hand raised.
I could be convinced otherwise, but after having to go against Slyfox to help get him into this round, I have to against Lynn here.
Lynn is great, but Michaels is a multiple time world champion and the list of people he has beatn is far more impressive. The gimmick nature of ECW is certainly no problem to Michaels who has fought in many over the years, so Michaels wins here.
Lynn is great, but Michaels is a multiple time world champion and the list of people he has beatn is far more impressive. The gimmick nature of ECW is certainly no problem to Michaels who has fought in many over the years, so Michaels wins here.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Yeah Shawn wins here. Lynn is a poor man's Shawn Michaels. Lynn was at his best in ECW, but Shawn is the kind of guy that would have been a star anywhere. He could have easily adapted to the ECW enviroment and done exceptionally well there also. It's a damn fun match to watch, but I'll give it to Shawn in about 25 minutes.
I'm agreeing with Sam, obviously. Lynn and HBK will put on a bunch of great spots, but this is an environment that Lynn made his name in, and used to help a ton of others make their names. I know it doesn't take much to swing a chair, but it does take some talent to know how to use a chair with just about every move in your arsenal.
I know we'll see the argument that Sweet Chin Music should end this, because it comes out of nowhere, but it won't matter here. Jerry Lynn has seen, and taken, better superkicks from Lance Storm. His truly did come out of nowhere, and rarely, if ever missed. HBK never hits the first time around, and that's all Lynn will need to set him up for a Cradle Piledriver on to a steel chair, and get the pinfall.
It'll be a30-40 minute classic match, but Lynn will be high octane the whole time, where HBK will need about 10 stops of 30-40 seconds each. Need proof? Look at the Iron Man match with Bret, or his match with 'Taker.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Biggest load of Bullshit I have ever read. I expected better from you, NSL. Shawn made his name being able to work ANY environment, and that includes the hardcore one. He;s been in some of the best 'extreme' matches ever; ladders, chairs etc. all being used to his advantage. Remember the match with Triple H at Summerslam 2002? That should be neough to prove Shawn goes over here.
Oh and Lance Storm with better superkicks? I just wet myself laughing, thanks.
He's been in the matches, but they were hardly "extreme". That ladder match with Razor may be the tamest ladder match ever. His ladder match with Jericho was better, and I'd argue Jericho carried the match. As far as the match with Triple H, it was a great match. But, when you're in the ring with one of your best friends, you're both going to put on a great show. He loses most of his big matches, and he'll lose this one.
Are you sure that was from laughing, and not from kissing HBK's ass?
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
*Sigh* Of course you would.
I'd actually believe it's A LOT harder to have a good match with someone you're close to. I mean, take Bret Hart. Shawn had better matches with him and they hated each other, than he ever did with his best friend Triple H. It's a really weak argument to explain that match. And it definately doesn't show why Lynn would win here. Shawn has also made a living out of wrestling guys not as talented as he is. He'll make Lynn look great but it's The Showstopper that will be victorious.
Laughing at how Inever had you pegged for one of those people who will vote against the popular one because 'it means you know about wrestling'
.justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
matches in the old ECW are unlike any "extreme match" in WWE, it's a completely different environment than HBK has ever, and I mean eeeeeever wrestled in, also NSL is right about one major thing that many people often over look HBK DOES miss sweet chin music half the fucking time, if Lynn can capitalize on that then suddenly this match swings in his favor and it is very likely that the underrated Lynn pulls off the upsetI'll admit it's debatable, but I'd be in Camp Jericho.
This is completely opinion-based. I'd say he made his career against Bret Hart, and then revived it against Undertaker. If Shawn was the most talented wrestler ever, he would've been leading the WWE during the Attitude Era, not Stone Cold, not The Rock, and certainly not Mick Foley.
Laughing at how Inever had you pegged for one of those people who will vote against the popular one because 'it means you know about wrestling'
I'm not voting against HBK for any reason, other than that I believe Lynn would win this match in an ECW Arena. HBK is a great wrestler. He would probably win this match anywhere else. But, this is ECW. HBK is the "Showstopper", but take away the glitz and glamour of the "show", and he's left getting his ass kicked. This is going to be in a small arena, with maybe 1000 people. Not the 10-20K that he's used to. It's just completely different from anything he's wrestled in.
It may be in his hometown, but this is Lynn's "home ring".
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
After looking through a lot of old Lynn matches, I'm confident there is absolutely nothing he can do to Shawn that Shawn wouldn't be able to handle. While I concede your point that ECW and 'Extreme' WWE are different (And will rep you for), the point is Shawn is used to 'different'. He'd never been a ladder match, yet his first is deemed as one of the best by many. He'd never been in an Elimination Chamber but he won to become champion. He'd never been in a Hell in a Cell yet he beat The Undertaker. I know that was down to Kane, but my point here really is that Shawn can adapt to anything, and because he has that plus more talent than Lynn, I think he can win this one.
We've already covered this. HBK was in the first of all of those. Which means, no one else was in them either. He lost the first ladder match. Don't forget that.
Just because he was in the first, doesn't mean he was an innovator. And, having to adapt, is what can be his downfall. While he's "adapting" to the environment, Lynn already has him on the mat.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Never called him the innovator, being the innovator doesn't matter at all here. Simply that he can have a great match in unfamiliar circumstances, just like he would with Lynn now.
He doesn't need 'time' to adapt, that's the thing. And he could very easily get Lynn on the mat before extreme rules even come into play - don't forget that.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
Here's how it is, folks. In a real wrestling match under ECW rules, Jerry Lynn stands a chance at beating HBK. Fact is, HBK has never, EVER had a true ECW match. Period. Say what you want about his ladder matches, but he's never been slammed on thumbtacks, never had a cheese grater to the face, and has never seen the likes of this environment.
But...what makes HBK what he is today is his ability to adapt to ANY environment. As far as wrestling skill and showmanship, HBK has this hands down, but that's offset by the brutal nature of the match and that Lynn THRIVED in this environment. But HBK also knows how to play the crowd and this is in San Antonio.
Don't expect this to be a 45 minute masterpiece. More like a 20 minute bloodbath with HBK picking up the win with Sweet Chin Music with a loaded cowboy boot. Why? Because "HBK lays down for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY!".
But...what makes HBK what he is today is his ability to adapt to ANY environment. As far as wrestling skill and showmanship, HBK has this hands down, but that's offset by the brutal nature of the match and that Lynn THRIVED in this environment. But HBK also knows how to play the crowd and this is in San Antonio.
Don't expect this to be a 45 minute masterpiece. More like a 20 minute bloodbath with HBK picking up the win with Sweet Chin Music with a loaded cowboy boot. Why? Because "HBK lays down for ABSOLUTELY NOBODY!".
Are you forgetting Shawn laid down for HHH, giving him the European Title?
I covered the Sweet Chin Music argument already also. He'll miss the first time, and that's all Lynn will need to take control. Even in a 20 minute bloodbath, Lynn will be nonstop, bouncing off everything, while HBK will be trying to keep up.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
I forget I'm talking to a man who's majored in Old School ECW Studies.
And Triple H was his best friend, so that doesn't count. And Shawn got a HUGE payout for the Hogan mess. Other than that. Nobody.
I've watched Jerry Lynn wrestle. And HBK, too. In their prime, this match is an epic battle. HBK could miss Sweet Chin Music once, or twice. But NOT THE THIRD TIME! And it's a loaded cowboy boot. Lest we forget that. It's close, very close. But I've got to give it to the ICON, the SHOWSTOPPAH!
You must like stroking my ego
THANK YOU! This completely eliminates the street fight against him from this tournament. Becca, you'll need a new example of Shawn succeeding in a hardcore environment.
With a loaded boot, he may not be able to lift his leg for a quality SCM. And, if he does miss the first, and a second, he'd already have suffered 2 Cradle Piledrivers. I don't think there's a chance at a third one.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
PLEASE tell me you're both joking regarding Triple H. How in the world does that justify Lynn winning? How does that mean ANYTHING? Shawn can have great matches with anyone - as I pointed out earlier he had better matches with the guy he hated more than anyone. It has absolutely nothing to do with his relationship with Triple H, and would certainly not help justify a vote for Lynn.
You're going to have to follow my logic, as it loops around a little.
If you're right, and HBK's best matches come against people he hates, than his worst matches come against people he likes, or respects. Following me so far?
Jerry Lynn is loved, and adored, by just about everyone on the indy scene. Fans, promoters, wrestlers. So, by using your math, HBK would respect Lynn, especially since this is Lynn's type of match, and Lynn's environment.
Therefore...HBK like Lynn, and has a subpar match. If I was already arguing that Lynn would win over HBK before, then I'm definitely arguing that he'd beat a subpar HBK.
Shawn's had a few street fights. Whoopty doo. Rarely did he look anywhere near comfortable in them. In his prime, he definitely wasn't. Nor has he had anywhere near the amount that Jerry Lynn has had in them.
Don't get me wrong, Lynn is crap, and so is ECW. However, they're both crap to the extreme, as Matt Hardy would say.
Don't get me wrong, Lynn is crap, and so is ECW. However, they're both crap to the extreme, as Matt Hardy would say.
HBK-aholic
Shawn Michaels ❤
Babe you're making NO sense at all. I never said matches with people he likes or respects are 'subpar'. After all, wasn't my original point that his match with Triple H was great? I just don't think his relationship with his competitor will make that mauch of a difference - as a professional that doesn't matter either way and it's a very weak argument.
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