The ECW Region: General Discussion

[justinsayne]

You can bring up Edge's win over Vader all you want. G'head, it means NOTHING. This tournament is about primes, and when Edge defeated Vader, he wasn't near his prime. Edge would have been Vader's toothpick in the early- and mid-90's. You learned first hand last year about Vader being the victim of Vince's bad booking, and that hasn't changed a lick.

Vader may not have been near his prime but neither was Edge, Edge was still pretty green at the time, Vader should have been able to use his veteran knowledge to, at the very least, drag the match out a bit longer, if not beat Edge, but the fact of the matter was a young kid who best days were far ahead of him was able to outsmart Vader and beat him quick as hell

 

[TheOneBigWill]

But we've both got bigger problems to worry about than each other right now, with Lesnar in the ECW draw.

The great thing about being a heel follower, is the cockiness that goes along with it. Fear Lesnar all you want, I've seen first hand that Edge has nothing to fear in this department.

I give you.. exhibit A.)

Edge v. Brock Lesnar:

[youtube]KJujP1y3Ah8[/youtube]
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[youtube]82jh8_39wYk&feature=related[/youtube]​

Sure, Edge ended up losing.. but only due to Paul Heyman being involved (legally) in the match. If it wasn't for Heyman, Edge would've been a 9 time World Heavyweight Champion right now.

Edge took everything Lesnar had, and that was when Edge wasn't yet as good as he is now. So if this tournament is based off primes, that was Lesnar's prime.. and this is Edge's, now, which means.. Edge would (should) take it, easy.

And as far as the chair being used in the end, and that now being legal. Look at it this way. Edge took everything Lesnar had, ring-wise. And that was during a time when Edge didn't look to take opportunistic moments and use under-handed tactics. NOW, Edge is more than willing to take any cheap shot to gain the victory.

No possible way I see Lesnar being a quality threat to Edge. I'll await a good enough excuse to pick apart.

As far as Andre the Giant. Even during Andre's prime, he was incredibly slow and not very mobile. Edge can simply wait that out, then strike. Shit, Hogan took everything Andre had, then defeated him with a leg drop. If he can do that, Edge is too quick for Andre to even catch.. so all it'll take is a spear, or two, and it's one and done.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

Because Shawn Michaels is an overall great high-flyer and mat wrestler, you often want to overlook his ability to stay in a brawl. But yet he can, and he will.

High flying works both ways in an extreme environment. You miss a high flying move you get hurt way more seriously than in a regular match. Mat ability advantage weighs less in an extreme environment than in a regular match.

Edge, as I stated above, isn't stupid enough to go toe to toe with someone who can out brawl him. But he will find ways to use him mind, and right now.. Edge is the best guy named thus far, who can out-think anyone else in this region.

and how is he going to find time to out think his opponent. This is no WWE that one can utilize the refrees 10 count to just sneak out of the ring, slow opponents momentum down and get a breather to use his mind. This is ECW arena. when fights go out of the ing they get nastier and gather even more pace than when the match was inside the rink.

I'm pretty sure Vader has lost extreme battles before. Just because he's built like a tank, doesn't mean he is unstoppable. The best way to come to a fight, isn't with mass, it's with ability and logic.

Infact i have predicted that AUSTIN beats VADER in the regional final.

The fans shouldn't play into effect until the final stages of this region's tournament rounds.

Have you watched ONE NIGHT STAND 2005. Do you have its DVD? if yes, then watch it again . if no get it from a friend and then watch it. just hear the POP and the ROARING welcome joey styles gets in the first minute of the payperview. [ O...........my..........god.......] and joey isnt even a wrestler. Dont tell me that fans come into play only in later stages. That is an absurd statement to make

And the only thing I fear about Edge losing to Austin or Vader, is by receiving votes against him by people too naive and unwilling to believe Edge can out-think his opponent's and do what he does best.

Out- thinking is not a 100% formula to success. So despite being such a good outthinker edge looses championships by loosing pinfalls to JEFF HARDY (perhaps the greatest thinking superstar ever in WWE) not once but twice.

Find the Ultimate Opportunity to win.

Provided there is one. If there isnt one, you wont find it at all and return eempty handed.

It's like I said before, everyone is instantly wanting to discount Shawn Michaels.

I didnt. In fact instantly i thought he will overcome the odds and will find a way out to survive. but careful and detailed reasoning suggests that the chances of his survival are remote unless someone else does the dirty work of removing AUSTIN which no one is capable of in the current scenario

 

[CENAtion]

I hate the fact that you Will, are saying Edge is better than Stone Cold at mind games and that Austin can be beat on any given day. How many memorable long lasting title reigns has Edge had??? Lets see he just won the title at Rumble and dropped it at NWO. Yea he was the "ultimate Oppurtunist" and won it back later in the night but he's only holding it for Cena to have his big moment at Mania to win it back.

Austin has proven pre Owen mess up that he can be as technical a wrestler as almost anyone. Even post that he still showed signs, I'm having a mental lapse right now but i cant remember who he had a technical masterpiece with on Raw on time. Austin does go balls to the wall sometimes, but when he is doing that he is setting the pace and almost all his opponents get thrown off their game. Austin will hit you at every shot he gets, and not lay in wait. He'll bring it straight to Edge and Edge isnt going to be able to lay in wait and pick his spots. You say Edge is great at playing mind games??? I think Stone Cold is better. Yea he out whitted the corporation and you say it was Austin vs the owner of the company. Sure that is true but it also was just as much Austin vs Rock. Then you move onto the Corporate Ministry and it was not only Austin vs Shane and Vince but it was Austin vs Undertaker...a legit "big man". And after all that who came out on top. Not the Corporation. Not the Corporate Ministry. Not Vince. Not Undertaker.

STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN

 

[Uncle Sam]

Brock Lesnar is in. People may think that he's out of his element here, but he's not. Anybody who thinks that has obviously forgotten the bloody mess that Brock left a good amount of his opponents in. Imagine him in an environment that encourages that. The guy's fucking sadistic.

Remember poor Zack Gowen? The one legged guy who Brock bloodied up, wrapped around a ring post and then chucked off the stretcher?

If you want something more substantial, there's this guy called The Undertaker. You might have heard of him. Brock picked up some steel steps and effectively made a hole in his face, through which blood pissed out. Hulk Hogan's so obscure there's no merit in bringing him up.

Brock Lesnar in ECW? Nobody is safe. Not even Big Van Vader.

 

[Shocky]

It's over for the ECW Region. Brock Lesnar, the prototypical wrestler in which all others could dream to be made of, is in this region.

No one can match what Brock lesnar brings to the table. Hell, Stone Cold Steve Austin chose to leave the WWE instead of getting his ass handed to him by Brock Lesnar on Monday Night Raw. The Texas Rattlesnake, the man with the BAMF walk, took his ball and walked home like a bitch in the wake of Brock Lesnar.

Edge, please. Edge doesn't have the strength to take Brock down with a spear. Brock Lesnar is the man that beat the Rock Cleanly at Summerslam in his rookie year, squeezed the life out of Hulk Hogan and proceeded to bathe in his blood, and he made the Undertaker his bitch in a Hell in the Cell.

If you want to shoot on Brock Lesnar, whose going to beat him. With his MMA and Amateur background, someone like Vader would be doing more then popping an eyeball back into his own socket. This environment is built for a destructive force like Brock Lesnar.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

and how is he going to find time to out think his opponent. This is no WWE that one can utilize the refrees 10 count to just sneak out of the ring, slow opponents momentum down and get a breather to use his mind. This is ECW arena. when fights go out of the ing they get nastier and gather even more pace than when the match was inside the rink.

Space without a restricted count-out will be the best possible solution. Only a fool would follow someone into an unopen area. All Edge has to do is make some space between himself and his opponent, lay in wait, and bam.. take the opening and advantage.

Not to mention, Edge thinks while wrestling. He doesn't need time to stop and draw up a fricken pie-chart, his pie-charts happen while he's either wearing you down, or creating space by moving away from you.

Have you watched ONE NIGHT STAND 2005. Do you have its DVD? if yes, then watch it again . if no get it from a friend and then watch it. just hear the POP and the ROARING welcome joey styles gets in the first minute of the payperview. [ O...........my..........god.......] and joey isnt even a wrestler. Dont tell me that fans come into play only in later stages. That is an absurd statement to make

You do realize Edge has made a living off of the fan's treating him like shit, right? He's made an even bigger name for himself, off the fan's hating him. The E.C.W. crowd is going to actually feed Edge's ego, and fuel him, more than it'd hinder or hurt him. If anything, it's the fan favorites like Steve Austin that'll get caught up in the moment of the fans, and get caught off guard.

Out- thinking is not a 100% formula to success. So despite being such a good outthinker edge looses championships by loosing pinfalls to JEFF HARDY (perhaps the greatest thinking superstar ever in WWE) not once but twice.

Edge's biggest weakness to me, is being overly cocky. When he thinks he has a big advantage, he typically loses. (ie. the sudden small package from No Way Out) But I doubt seriously Edge would ever consider having a huge advantage over Austin or Vader, so he's going to be more calculating and make less mental mistakes.

Provided there is one. If there isnt one, you wont find it at all and return eempty handed.

There is ALWAYS an opportunity that can be taken advantage of. And Edge will find it.

I didnt. In fact instantly i thought he will overcome the odds and will find a way out to survive. but careful and detailed reasoning suggests that the chances of his survival are remote unless someone else does the dirty work of removing AUSTIN which no one is capable of in the current scenario

As the tournament standings look to be set-up, it seems to me Austin & Vader will eliminated each other. One will fall to the other, and that gives Edge a nice clear cut (opportunistic) path to the Finals, in which he will then take advantage of the "endurance" factor that should play a very important role in the semi-finals and finals, I believe.

Vader and Austin will wear each other out. Edge might face Lesnar, but as I've already explained, Lesnar was almost no match for Edge in that above posted match, when Edge wasn't nearly as great as he is now. Edge should be well rested, while Vader and Austin will beat the shit outta each other, and be the opposite's downfall.

 

[CENAtion]

Damn Brock Lesnar damn him. I was not saying anything about him on hopes of not jynxing it cause this guy is made for this region. Power, speed, agaility, technically sounded, you name it Brock does have it. I think the only way to beat him is the hope of heavy weapon use. For a man that was just so damn dominant i think the only way to beat him is to make him bleed and make him make the big mistake and capitalize. The one thing Lesnar does not have that the others have is Experience. Lesnar did do it all while in the WWE but he wasnt around tat long to be through the wars over and over again. Whereas guys like Austin, Edge, Vadar, and HBK have experienced so much so many times and are less likely to make a mistake. The more I think about it he is not a slam dunk to win this region, but he is a top candidate.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Experience? Experience? I'm sure he gave Hulk Hogan quite an experience, the guy's lucky he didn't bleed to death. I'm sure he gave a bloodied Undertaker an experience when he plucked him from the air, chucked him on his shoulders and hit the F-5. I'm sure he gave Kurt Angle quite an experience when he concussed himself one minute and was WWE champion the next. Sorry Kurt. Prototypical wrestler? Yeah, but more relevantly prototypical brick shithouse.

 

[CENAtion]

You do realize Edge has made a living off of the fan's treating him like shit, right? He's made an even bigger name for himself, off the fan's hating him. The E.C.W. crowd is going to actually feed Edge's ego, and fuel him, more than it'd hinder or hurt him. If anything, it's the fan favorites like Steve Austin that'll get caught up in the moment of the fans, and get caught off guard.

Really???? Are you kidding me. Do you remember Stone Cold in 97 when he first started getting cheered? He always said he doesnt give a rat's ass whether you cheer for him or boo him and that he is the best wrestler on the planet. Regardless of what the fans think he is coming to beat the hell out of someone. Yes eventually he did ask the crowd for a Hell Yeah during a promo. But during a match he was focused on his opponent in almost every match with the only exceptions off the top of my head being Rumble 99 and St. Valentine's Day Massacre in which he went 1 and 1 in. And in his loss he eventually rebounded big time clearly. You act like he is going to play to the ECW crowd like Hogan does/did with the WWF/E crowd. The crowd in ECW thrives on your in ring performace and likes violence and hell being raised. Who better to serve that than Stone Cold Steve Austin. He will not play to them but when he hears the cheers it will only motivate him to push it even further and inflict more pain.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

No one can match what Brock lesnar brings to the table. Hell, Stone Cold Steve Austin chose to leave the WWE instead of getting his ass handed to him by Brock Lesnar on Monday Night Raw. The Texas Rattlesnake, the man with the BAMF walk, took his ball and walked home like a bitch in the wake of Brock Lesnar.

Steve Austin took his ball and went home, because he felt that putting someone like Lesnar over someone like Austin was a huge mistake. And at that time, it possibly would've been.

Who did Lesnar beat prior to the planned attempt to put Lesnar over Austin? The Hardyz? Al Snow? He couldn't even handle Rob Van Dam without being Disqualified or cheating, how on earth is he going to stop someone like Steve Austin?!

Edge, please. Edge doesn't have the strength to take Brock down with a spear.

Check the video above. Edge, before he was as talented as he is now, had him beat. Lesnar, in his prime, can't touch Edge now. All the amateur wrestling skills in the world isn't going to cut it against the Ultimate Opportunist, who still holds all the same skills he had back then, and a whole bunch that's been added since.

Brock Lesnar is the man that beat the Rock Cleanly at Summerslam in his rookie year, squeezed the life out of Hulk Hogan and proceeded to bathe in his blood, and he made the Undertaker his bitch in a Hell in the Cell.

So let me get this straight, because he defeated a guy who left wrestling to become an Actor, an old man who could barely move, and an out of shape future HoF'er.. that makes him great? Uh-uh, not buying it.

If you want to shoot on Brock Lesnar, whose going to beat him. With his MMA and Amateur background, someone like Vader would be doing more then popping an eyeball back into his own socket. This environment is built for a destructive force like Brock Lesnar.

Lesnar and Vader can brawl all day long as far as I'm concerned. Lesnar is the biggest overrated piece of trash I've seen, since arguably Goldberg. And they both have about the same attitude toward the Wrestling industry, in honestly thinking they're bigger and better than anyone in it.

As far as I'm concerned, THIS.. is Lesnar's fate.

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[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I'm sorry IC, but Vader is going to fall to Andre or Brock. It just depends on who he meets first. Andre is much bigger while Brock is stronger and faster. Vader's power and toughness advantage is gone when he faces them.

 

[CENAtion]

Steve Austin took his ball and went home, because he felt that putting someone like Lesnar over someone like Austin was a huge mistake. And at that time, it possibly would've been.

Who did Lesnar beat prior to the planned attempt to put Lesnar over Austin? The Hardyz? Al Snow? He couldn't even handle Rob Van Dam without being Disqualified or cheating, how on earth is he going to stop someone like Steve Austin?!

So let me get this straight, because he defeated a guy who left wrestling to become an Actor, an old man who could barely move, and an out of shape future HoF'er.. that makes him great? Uh-uh, not buying it.

As far as I'm concerned, THIS.. is Lesnar's fate.

[youtube]WkdYX6fXR3s[/youtube]

OOOOhhhhhh Heeeelllllll Yyyyyeeeaaaahhhh

I love the video. Brock was shoved down our throats in my eyes. He was given the world and could have dominated for years. In my opinion if any took their ball and went home it was Brock Lesnar. He had a huge list of accomplishments and would have clearly been the man for years to come. But whats he do, leaves cause he cant handle the schedule. In a match of Brock vs Austin, Vadar, or Edge, he aint gonna just run through them and completely dominate them. In a envirnment where weapons are legal, if the dominant Lesnar cant manhandled them, which he cant, he may get frustrated abnd just give up. When he realizes he is in a war with those three and he cant steam roll through them what will he do. In my opinion, he clearly doesnt have the heart and passion the others have. So in the land of extreme how far is he willing to sacvrifice himself for a sport he doesnt have a love for.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

I'm sorry IC, but Vader is going to fall to Andre or Brock. It just depends on who he meets first. Andre is much bigger while Brock is stronger and faster. Vader's power and toughness advantage is gone when he faces them.

I think the ide of a Vader/Lesnar showdown is huge.. but Vader will OWN Andre any day of the week.

I'm just not, nor have I ever been, sold on why Andre the Giant was worth anything more than just wasted space. So what, he was a Giant. You don't see people ranting and raving this much over the Great Khali, and Khali actually knows more wrestling moves. Big Show, now there is a Giant with ability.

I know this will take heat, and honestly I don't give a shit because noone can come up with a good enough reason for me to think otherwise. Andre the Giant was undefeated for something like 12-14 years. All I have to say about that is, his opponent's must've sucked major ass.

Hogan took him down, without doing anything other than unloading with some rights, chops, a body slam and a leg drop. I'd hardly call that an unstoppable offense. Andre was monsterous up right, but once you got him dropped he's easily defeatable.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

That's very true. I was going off Andre beaing able to match Vader's strength, which I think that he can. I wouldn't expect Andre to go over Vader, but I do expect Lesnar to, if they meet. IC can no longer say that Vader is the biggest and meanest one in this bracket. Yes, he can take shots, but so can Lesnar. Lesnar is tougher, stronger, faster, and more agile. Simply put, Lesnar > Vader.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

How is it improbable? You MUST explain yourself, as this section is within the realm of the rules and you need to follow through. I can't debate it simply being "your opinion".

IT IS IMPOBABLE BECAUSE
1. STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN defeated HBK shawn michaels in the main event of wrestlemania, and as i have said in my earlier post, I think that in a match held under extreme rules the HI FLY and MAT skill advantage that SHAWN MICHAELS has over AUSTIN counts even less. so in my opinion AUSTIN goes over HBK in an extreme rules match held in ECW ring in ECW arena filled with the noisy ECW crowd.

2. EDGE
a. Is not liked by ECW fans. ( for proof , coninue watching ONE NIGHT STAND 2005 and listen to HEYMANS shoot promo)
b. Isnt as big a draw as AUSTIN was.
c. doesnt ALWAYS win in gimmick matches which arent TLC. ( has lost to cena in TLC , Taker in HELL in a CELL, GOT a bad bump and was carried out on a strecher at MITB 2 ). not to mention edge has lost in ladder and cage matches to hardys and tables match to dudleys when part of tag team with christian.
summary- edge wins some loses some. losses come when opponents are strong contenders. AUSTIN is a perhaps as strong a challenger as can be given the circumstances , hence AUSTIN wins

before you start again on your EDGE WILL OUT THINK AND OUTSMART EVERYONE jargon again, read my previous posts where i have blown this myth away.

Steve Austin is not Super-man

JOHN CENA is the SUPER man. Thats why i am hoping that he meets the SUPERMAN OF WCW in the first round in WCW region.
,

and he surely can lose on any given day, to any given individual.

if he gulps a dozen beers before the match up rather than after winning the match, then maybe.....

Didn't he lose to Mickey Whipwreck, in E.C.W.? During a period of time when Whipwreck was considered a "jobber"?

a dejected , rejected, WCW fired, ECW hired, bitter midcarder , former tag team player steve austin once lost to a Mickey Whipreck. yes he did . but at that point of time he was steve austin. not STONE COLD steve AUSTIN . not the RATTLE SNAKE.
NOW I STRECH MY MEMORY A LITTLE BIT
1. THE ROCK lost to HURRICANE
2. RIC FLAIR lost to RICO
3. HULK HOGAN lost to KIDMAN
4. HHH lost to SHELTON BENJAMIN more than once
5. ANGLE lost to JAY lethal
so folks from now on when anyone of these wrestler comes to face edge , always remember that if hurricane, rico, kidman , shelton and jay lethal can beat them edge surely will
So yes, it'd highly probable that Steve Austin can lose.

The reason I actually like Edge in this situation, is because he isn't going to rush into battle

Thats because her plays a cowardly heel sometimes. ECW is no place for cowards

He's going to piss you off[, he's going to make you play his game, of cat and mouse.

and STONE COLD is easy to fall prey to such games, isnt he?

He'll make you follow him, which expends your energy. Then he'll strike when the best opening and opportunity presents itself to him.

WHEN STONE COLD FOLLOWS YOU , YOU RUN FOR DEAR LIFE.....ASK RIKISHI......OR BETTER ASK VINCE McMAN HIMSELF....EDGE BETTER GET HIMSELF A GUN LIKE BRIAN PILLMAN DID

Sure, he'll take a fair amount of punishment, but that doesn't mean he can't withstand it.

Thats debatable. he couldnt withstand the punishment dished by the undertaker inside hell in a cell and was injured and gone for about two months.
hardy finishes him with a quick move. he takes far less punishment than he can withstand but even then loses.
STONE COLD stunner isnt a sloppy finisher at all.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

a. Is not liked by ECW fans. ( for proof , coninue watching ONE NIGHT STAND 2005 and listen to HEYMANS shoot promo)

A year later, the E.C.W. crowd loved him for two reasons.

1. He went the limit in a great hardcore Tag team match with Foley, against Funk & Dreamer.

2. He helped R.V.D., defeat John Cena.

So this little tidbit of info is useless. The fans will cheer and boo anyone, any given day, depending the circumstances. Either way, Edge won't be effected by the crowd.

b. Isnt as big a draw as AUSTIN was.

How does that have any remote setting on why Austin would defeat Edge? It doesn't. "I draw more, lay down". Sorry, that's not how this tourney works.

c. doesnt ALWAYS win in gimmick matches which arent TLC. ( has lost to cena in TLC , Taker in HELL in a CELL, GOT a bad bump and was carried out on a strecher at MITB 2 ). not to mention edge has lost in ladder and cage matches to hardys and tables match to dudleys when part of tag team with christian.

Steve Austin, LOST, to Savio fricken Vega in a Carribean Strap match. Savio Vega.

Stone Cold Steve Austin, LOST, to Triple H. because of mind games on seperate occasions.

summary- edge wins some loses some. losses come when opponents are strong contenders. AUSTIN is a perhaps as strong a challenger as can be given the circumstances , hence AUSTIN wins

Replied Summary - Austin can be viewed as the exact same. It isn't hard to realize this is going to be a stalemate. You're simply not going to accept through your way of thinking that Austin could ever lose to Edge.

While I know in my mind, Edge can defeat Austin if they were in the same era together, with this Edge against THAT Austin.

Jericho defeated Austin, and that was when he was using a similar gimmick that Edge has now. So yes, Edge can very well and very likely defeat Austin.

before you start again on your EDGE WILL OUT THINK AND OUTSMART EVERYONE jargon again, read my previous posts where i have blown this myth away.

You can't blow something away that you don't know through mere opinion. You can only match them up, and by matching each other up.. Edge has out-smarted more individuals, to lead him to more overall success, than Austin has.

Conclusion.. Edge is better at doing it.

Thats because her plays a cowardly heel sometimes. ECW is no place for cowards

Steve Corino made a living out of that gimmick, and became an E.C.W. Heavyweight Champion! Mickey Whipwreck did the same exact thing as a face. I'm more than sure, it has it's fair share of "place" within the land of extreme.

EDGE BETTER GET HIMSELF A GUN LIKE BRIAN PILLMAN DID

Well, it is no holds barred, anything goes. So I guess that's just one more reason why Austin would lose. Thanks.

Thats debatable. he couldnt withstand the punishment dished by the undertaker inside hell in a cell and was injured and gone for about two months.

He withstood everything inside the Cell from Taker. He wasn't injured, he was IN HELL! Didn't you see him chokeslammed to hell, after the match? Duh.

And on that note, he fought his way OUT of hell, and directly right back into an opportunistic Championship match where he once again became Heavyweight Champion.

What's Austin ever done that can top that? Duck out of facing Brock Lesnar? Or maybe, Slap Debra around. Yeah.. that's extreme.

hardy finishes him with a quick move. he takes far less punishment than he can withstand but even then loses.

Savio Vega > Steve Austin, just sayin'

And Edge did later in that same night withstand the likes of Kane, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Mike Knox and John Cena to become a Champion, did he not?

STONE COLD stunner isnt a sloppy finisher at all.

It's very unprotected. Several ways to counter it, and he turns his back to his opponent to attempt delivering it. Horrible, horrible finisher.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Lesnar and Vader can brawl all day long as far as I'm concerned. Lesnar is the biggest overrated piece of trash I've seen, since arguably Goldberg.

Even as the incredible piece of hyperbole I'm taking this as, this makes no sense. Outside of size and build, Goldberg and Lesnar were very dissimilar. The case can be made that both were fed the world, and that's true. Brock, however, has a much, much better base than Goldberg. He's got an amateur wrestling background, actually went through development and has incredible skills in any area. Save the mic, but who's counting that?

I'd also make the case that Edge has digressed since that video. Edge, in his prime, is the heel Edge we see today. The Edge that rarely trusts his own skills and is taken out by Triple H or The Undertaker or the Big Show or Jeff Hardy on a weekly basis. That's the most successful Edge. And the most successful Brock is the heel Brock that wrestles like the face Brock but with added sadism and tenacity. Add hardcore rules to that, and that video holds no water.

Why are we even debating this now? No more debating until (or unless) they face off.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Stone Cold FTR (For The Region)!!! Ah, now I will finally get to debate at least one of the following people: IrishCanadian25 (as he's supporting Vader and Andre); TheOneBigWill (as he's supporting Edge); HBK-aholic (as she's supporting Shawn Michaels). Best of luck to all of you. However, know that I don't plan on showing my cards until the tournament begins. For the most part, all of you have already thrown out your arguments. Thank you!!! Now you have given me sufficient time to form rebuttals!

 

[Danmen001]

Well, I'm happy to say that Jeff Hardy is in the ECW region, and will have my full support. Why? He jumps off things. That's why.

Jeff and the ECW rules go together like bread and butter. Except this butter juimps off ladders and takes EXTREME (pun intended) ammount of punishment, and still doesn't give up.

Extreme rules means ladders. So, if people know what they're on about, it's a Jeff win.

 

[MattMoses]

I'm just not, nor have I ever been, sold on why Andre the Giant was worth anything more than just wasted space

Is your definition of "wasted space" someone who is among the biggest draws in the history of the business, not just in America, but places like Europe and Japan? Or is it someone who could play both a loveable babyface and mostrous heel better than most workers could ever dream of?

Or, is it because that the man was slow and broken down in the ring after dedicating eighteen years of his life to professional wrestling? Because, you know, wrestlers the size and with health problems like Andre the Giant obviously perform better with age. If you're choosing to believe he was nothing more than just "wasted space" because of what the WWE chooses to show the fans these days, then you've obviously not bothered to take an ounce of time to research the history behind the man.

So what, he was a Giant. You don't see people ranting and raving this much over the Great Khali, and Khali knows more wrestling moves. Big Show, now there is a Giant with ability.

Please. The Big Show is a giant with ability, yet Andre wasn't? I'm absolutely dying to hear your reasoning behind that. The simple fact is, anything the Big Show has or can do in the ring, Andre could and did it too.

Andre the Giant was undefeated for something like 12-14 years. All I have to say about that is, his opponent's must've sucked major ass.

Making asinine comments about something you have no knowledge about, or never saw. Are these the kind of arguments you're going to be presenting as to why Andre was "wasted space"?

Hogan took him down, without doing anything other than unloading with some rights, chops, a body slam and a leg drop. I'd hardly call that an unstoppable offense. Andre was monsterous up right, but once you got him dropped he's easily defeatable.

Oh well, it seems you have chosen to be spoonfed by the WWE.

 

[NSL]

The possibility of austin blacking out is small as VADER isnt known to be a submission specialist.

I'm not saying Vader will make him tap. I'm saying Austin will keep fighting until Vader has him laying in a pool of his own blood.


As far as everyone else that's been listed, I must be alone in not having sick amounts of man love for Lesnar. I'll reiterate what I said in the San Antonio Region. No one can dish out a punishment that Jeff Hardy can't take. Give him the added edge of extreme rules and weapons, and he should be fine in that set-up.

I'm still with Vader here though. Even if he faces Lesnar, it won't be easy for Lesnar to simply catch Vader coming off the top rope (or wherever else he damn well pleases). The same gos for Vader that went for Hardy. In this environment, there's no counting him out. It's his element, and Lesnar hasn't seen what Vader can do in the ring.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

A very stacked region here so far, with many guys that could ut their hands up to be a justified winner of the region.

I am a little surprised that so many people are just completely discounting HBK though. Sure he is a small guy against some of the biggest guys going around. But his whole career HBK has pretty much been battling bigger opponents. PLayed the underdog role. Been bloodied and battered from pillar to post and has been able to withstand what his opponent has thrown at hime and still go thru. Dont discount him here.

Then there is Stone Cold, one of my all time favourites, he is a good brawler and add weapons into the equation will be hard to stop. Then you have Vader a monster, someone I dont think anyone really wants to have to face. Cos facing Vader you know one thing, your going to get hurt. Edge can never be discounted, cos he is a htinker. He will think his way through each opponenet. PLaying on their weaknesses, looking for any opening, no matter how small and then taking his chances.

Howevre for me I can see Lesnar being very very difficult to stop here in ECW. Sure he was pushed down our throats but the man had skill. Techincal and mat ability, strength to overpower and destroy guys smaller than he. When voting in this bracket I will be voting for Brock when he was at his best. The heel Brock. The one that just wanted to destroy you, make you hurt, make you bleed in so many ways. Given his sadistic tendencies duriing this time, add his skills, add in some weapons for good measure and Brock his going to be extremely difficult to stop.

One thing that may count against him though may be the time he spent in the WWE, and the taste left after his disaster against Goldberg.

 

[NSL]

ECW is going to be full of "upsets", all due to the nature of the beast. My final four, as of now, are Stone Cold, Bobby Lashley, Jerry Lynn, and Edge.

Lashley v. Austin would be a hell of a match, but Lashley should win. In a Barbwire Rope match, Stone Cold just doesn't have the power to overtake Lashley. In a Three Stages Of Hell, Austin wouldn't be able to handle the power over a period of time. It'll be close either way, but Lashley should win.

Edge v. Jerry Lynn should be a close ECW match, but with Will backing Edge, I don't think I stand a chance at pushing Lynn here. In a Barbwire Match, Lynn is toast. He never fared well in a cage, because it limits what he can do around the ring. This does that, but to a more painful level. He'd stand a chance in a Three Stages Of Hell match, but Edge has too much support to lose here.

Edge should have enough to go over Lashley, but may be beaten to badly to get further than that. With the right amount of support, he can either take the tournament, or get squashed in an upset.

 

[Shocky]

The tournament now moves into round 4 and 5, and into a new city for each of the Regions. Here in the ECW Region, the action moves to the Infamous ECW Arena, in Philadelphia, PA.

The ECW Arena, home of the Original ECW and what many consider the attitude movement of the late 90's. The ECW Arena can hold upto 1600 of the smarkiest of the smarks in the building.

The ECW Regionals are hosted by none other then Paul Heyman. Heyman, known as the mad scientist of professional wrestling, is known to push things to the limit. Will Paul Heyman be an idle bystander, or will he make sure that someone that best represents ECW will move on?

Dallas Finals:
#1. Steve Austin vs. #8 Booker T.

Denver Finals:
#4. Big Van Vader vs. #5 Andre the Giant vs. #12 The Big Show

San Antonio Finals:
#18 Jushin Thunder Liger vs. #7 Brock Lesnar

Toronto Finals:
#3 Edge vs. #6 Ricky Steamboat