All Future Wrestlemania Discussion (Matches, Gimmicks, Angles.... KEEP IT IN HERE!)

[Waylon Mercy]

No, it wasn't the biggest heel turn in wrestling history, but to me this will always rank as the best. Bret Hart had spent many years as the face of the (then) WWF, when he loses a grueling Iron Man championship match to HBK. The look on Bret's face when Gorilla Monsoon ordered him back to to the ring after the 60 minute mark, and him looking on in disbelief as HBK hoisted the Heavyweight title belt in the air marked a new and edgier path for the Hitman.
Bret took some time off after that, and there was much speculation whether or not he would ever come back. Along comes The Texas Rattlesnake, Stone Cold Steve Austin. He is full of venom, and uses much of his promo time to berate Bret Hart. As he sits home watching this, Bret grows angrier and angrier at this disrespect that is launched at him week after week. Stone Cold issues a challenge for Bret to come out of retirement and face him like a man, which Bret accepts. Bret wasn't about to let this degenerate redneck tarnish his reputation. The intensity of this feud was off the charts.
Their Wrestlemania match ranks among the greatest ever, and with good reason. These two threw everything they had at each other in their famous "I Quit" match. It was epic storytelling in the ring, as Bret emerged the heel, while Stone Cold emerged the face. This led to Bret turning on the disloyal fans and the company that he served so faithfully for years. It also led to Bret being cheered everywhere else in the world, except the USA. The US fans were die hard Austin fans by now, and Bret tapped in to that as fodder for their bloodthirsty culture and betrayal of decency. It eventually led to the reunion of the Hart Foundation. It will always stand out to me as one of my favorite moments in WWE history. It truly was the watershed moment that led to the Attitude Era in my opinion. Bret became much edgier, and even physically attacked Vince McMahon (who was not yet revealed as the owner of the corporation. It was certainly foreshadowing, though).

 

[The Dragon Saga]

Nope, i disagree as i say austin turning at wrestlemania 17 was the biggest heel turn of all time. It was the biggest face of all time, joining not just his biggest adversary, but the biggest heel of all time. And it was broadcast live to over 5 times the amount of people that saw the hogan turn.

Austin's heel turn was a flop. Says so himself on his most recent retrospective DVD.

Hogan's heel turn will forever be the biggest heel turn in the history of professional wrestling because nobody will be on Hogan's level. John Cena has mainstream success but he isn't an iconic pop culture figure like Hogan was, Steve Austin was a great character and made WWE a lot of money but he still didn't make the money Hogan made them through the initial Mania's, endorsements and merchandise sales. Austin brought the company built around Hogan into another era, don't exaggerate what he did. Hogan turning heel made WCW a contender to WWE, before that they were viewed as second best.

There is also no point in John Cena turning heel, there never has been and for another couple of years unless someone can step up and do his job nobody will. Nobody is as marketable, nobody is as popular, nobody makes the money John makes and hes a verified draw. The fact so many people complained about The Rock versus John Cena II yet the estimates show they made more money than last years is all the proof that's needed.

 

[HBsam31]

Cena's would have been bigger if they did it before everyone started hating him. I think it would be huge if he turned heel on Taker ending the streak (that is something I really want to see by the way), but it would not be bigger than Hogan's. No one saw the Hogan turn coming. It was huge. I was 16 and I remember marking out like a 10 year old running to the other room screaming Hogan just turned bad dad Hogan just turned bad. It would sure make people hate Cena if he did it that way, but sorry it just would not be bigger than the Hogan turn.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

I agree with Booz in that Andre's turn was bigger. People don't realize just how big that heel turn was. Andre was "supposedly" Hogans best friend. Andre was loved by fans. This was one guy who people thought would always have Hogan's back.

Steve Austin was a great character and made WWE a lot of money but he still didn't make the money Hogan made them through the initial Mania's, endorsements and merchandise sales. Austin brought the company built around Hogan into another era, don't exaggerate what he did.

That is just wrong. The WWE made more money in the AE era than any other era. Austin was the big reason why. Vince went from a multi millionaire to a billionaire from that era alone.

I am not trying to put Hogan down because he was a huge draw but Austin was a bigger draw for the WWF.

At WWE shop Austin still has 3 t-shirts in the top 10. In 1998 the WWF sold $500 million dollars in merchandise and nearly half of that came from Austin t-shirts alone. The WWF sold 12 million Austin shirts that year. That was from Forbes in 99. Hogan NEVER did that. You are right in that Austin is not on Hogan's level, he is above him.

Plus by the time Austin signed with the WWF, the WWF was no longer a company built around Hogan. Once he left they started going younger.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

That is just wrong. The WWE made more money in the AE era than any other era. Austin was the big reason why. Vince went from a multi millionaire to a billionaire from that era alone.

Incorrect. Vince was a billionaire before the steroid scandal due to Hogan and Hulkamania's popularity, he lost millions during it and was then a millionaire again until Austin came along, but Austin didn't make all the money in the Attitude Era which you in one post have glorified beyond belief as your obviously not very knowing on exactly how much money the three initial WrestleMania's made with Hogan's name on the marquee.

I am not trying to put Hogan down because he was a huge draw but Austin was a bigger draw for the WWF.

No, he wasn't.

At WWE shop Austin still has 3 t-shirts in the top 10. In 1998 the WWF sold $500 million dollars in merchandise and nearly half of that came from Austin t-shirts alone. The WWF sold 12 million Austin shirts that year. That was from Forbes in 99. Hogan NEVER did that. You are right in that Austin is not on Hogan's level, he is above him.

While I don't argue Austin has sold more t-shirts he didn't draw the crowds Hogan did which you've rather coincidentally left out - unless you can recall Austin drawing 80,000 people to Ford Field for WrestleMania III or several other stadiums? And no Mania 23 doesn't count as he was a special guest referee and not a marquee advertised name.

Plus by the time Austin signed with the WWF, the WWF was no longer a company built around Hogan. Once he left they started going younger.

That a) has nothing to do with anything and b) when Austin signed for the WWE it was being trounced in ratings against WCW, pay-per-view buys were at an all-time low and Hogan and the nWo were drawing for WCW. This argument is so outdated I don't even know why I'm bothering as any sensible wrestling fan knows what Hogan did, how much money he made and why hes still a pop culture figure to this day. Austin is recognizable but hasn't been mainstream in several years.

 

[rage72]

WRESTLEMANIA 30 is going to be BIG!!!
John Cena Vs The Undertaker for the WWE Championship will most likely headline the ppv...

I think its time for the streak to end... im the biggest undertaker fan and don't care personally for john cena, but if cena were to say cheat to pick up a win over the undertaker ending the streak then we could have the biggest heel turn in the hisotyr of professional wrestling.

Imagine cena fighting out with taker only to grab a microphone when taker is down after not being able to pin him only to say "JUSTICE" ...

Shield comes out beats taker down, cena smacks taker with a chair and bam 1,2,3 streak is OVER!

would this turn cena into professional wrestlings biggest heel?

I like the idea of Cena beating Taker as I feel the streak needs to end to show just how badass going 21-0 at WM truely is. It would also mean Taker can say goodbye and end up in the HoF the following year. To me it seems like a waste to build up the streak like they have where guys are willing to put their careers on the line just for the chance to end the streak so it only makes sense to have Takers last match be the match the ends the streak.

As for Cena being the guy I think him beating Taker cleanly would be the IWC worst nightmare and reading the comments would have me LMFAO. Now that would make Cena hated more then cheating to win.

At this point I am ready for the streak to end since it is keeping Taker from retiring and getting the proper sendoff that he deserves and quite frankly knowing Taker isn't going to lose takes a bit from his match.

 

[EastCoastFan]

As long as pro wrestling has been a work, there have been heel turns. Some have been memorable, some not so much.

The first major heel turn that grabbed me as a wrestling fan was when Paul Orndorff turned on Hulk Hogan in 1986. That was how a heel turn should be done. It simmered for weeks and weeks until it boiled over and Orndorff attacked Hogan. That turn got 65,000-plus people to attend the Big Event in Toronto that year, on a card that didn't have the I-C or tag team champions on it. Let's see WWE try that now.

Randy Savage's heel turn in 1989 leading to WrestleMania 5 was another one that simmered for a long time, with fans eagerly wondering when and how it was going to finally boil over. Vince Russo should have taken notes from that time period, because he would turn people based on which way the wind was blowing at that moment.

My favorite heel turn was when Hulk Hogan was revealed as the third Outsider in 1996. I was sick of Hulk Hogan at that point and my friend and I bought the PPV mainly because Hogan wasn't on it. When he came out and dropped the leg on Savage that night, we were the happiest fans on Earth. No one saw it coming, but many fans were relieved that it finally came.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Is this a joke?
Nothing. NOTHING. Will be bigger than Hogan turning in 1996. His heel turn jump started another boom period in wrestling. Austin's heel turn in 2001 ended that same boom period. Andre's turn in the build to WM3 is a second. But nothing. NOTHING. will be bigger than Hogan turning and joining NWO in 1996.

 

[rge2010]

Austins heel turn at the time was huge, alligning himself with Vince McMahon and then Triple H the next night. The whole turn was a flop though! If I remember correctly he turned back face during the spell and then turned heel once again alligning himself with 'The Alliance'.

In Austins defence, there were circumstances that changed all this. Triple H was 'the game' and not the goofy DX idiot we saw a few years later. Sadly he got injured and was on the shelf for a long time missing most of Austins turn. Then Austin got paired with Kurt Angle who was one of the biggest goofballs at the time. Then he was fueding with McMahon as a face which didnt work, then Kurt as a face, and everything got messy.

Austins best times as a heel were when he put Rock on the shelf, then bullied Michael Cole and humiliated Jim Ross. After this he became a coward and a comedy character - it just didnt work for Austin.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'm just throwing some general thoughts out for next year's Mania, or at least what I'd like to see...

Cena vs. Undertaker - needs to happen at some point, this is the best stage.

CM Punk vs. HHH - we know HHH is going to be there and McMahon vs. Heyman is gold, and no one wants Brock vs. HHH #43.

Lesnar vs. Orton - Orton's my favorite and I want him in a big match.... mmhm.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I'm just throwing some general thoughts out for next year's Mania, or at least what I'd like to see...

Cena vs. Undertaker - needs to happen at some point, this is the best stage.

CM Punk vs. HHH - we know HHH is going to be there and McMahon vs. Heyman is gold, and no one wants Brock vs. HHH #43.

Lesnar vs. Orton - Orton's my favorite and I want him in a big match.... mmhm.

I think Undertaker vs. Cena is going to happen. Everyone is going to think Cena will break the streak but he won't.

Punk vs. Trips is interesting although I'd prefer Punk vs. Stone Cold.

I like Lesnar vs. Orton. I think that could be a great feud.