10 years on Montreal Screwjob

[jericho3150]

Vince McMahon has backed off on the screwjob and even mentioned the word regret, where as Bret has stayed stead fast in his decision that night. McMahon comes across as having a guilty conscious, Hart doesn't. That's pretty strong, considering it's ten plus years later.

I think Vince felt bad right off the bat and Shane has said that. But Vince feels that he made the right choice at that time.. He has said if he had to do it "today" things might have been different.. But this would be a completely different time and scenario.. Vince is not battling for the future of his business anymore..

And as for the rest of your post of trying to discredit all those peoples opinions on Bret.. I don't believe that a smart poster like yourself can really believe that every single person who has ever said that Bret wasn't always proffesional was lying. All these excuses are just a real stretch.. But instead of believing 20 people who worked with him you say that they aren't being honest yet the only opinion you value is Bret Harts which of course couldn't possibly be biased toward making himself look good.

And as far as going to WCW. Put it this way, why wouldn't he go by that point. Vince changed his mind at the eleventh hour on deciding to bring Bret back into the fold.

He practically waited until Bret's name was on the contract with Turner land before he said, oh wait, I really didn't mean for you to do that. Don't put someone in that situation if you don't want him in that situation.

Actually Vince told Bret the money had changed and they could keep him on Oct 24th.. WWF and Vince thought that Bret was staying.. WCW made the offer to Bret on Oct 31st. Bret told Vince on Nov1st that WCW made him an offer and that he was leaning towards taking it...

They didn't wait til the last minute.. Bret actually told Vince he was leaving at the last minute that he was leaving... he called Vince on Nov1st and signed the contract that night..


Again..leaving was Brets choice.

 

[Davi323]

Vince feeling bad about it is merely hindsight. I am sure, after it happened, that there were ways he could have stripped the belt off of Hart without doing what happened. However, at that time, he probably didn't think he had much choice. The other options either didn't occur to him until after the fact. Vince was feeling desperate back then, and we all know the desperate times call for desperate measures. Looking back, there were probably many different ways to have gotten the belt off of Bret with both sides feeling somewhat satisfactory over how it was done...But, hindsight is 20/20. What occurs to us now, might not have seemed obvious to Vince McMahon back then. Nobody here is saying Vince McMahon is a saint, not even close. But in this ONE instance, Bret Hart was in the wrong by refusing to lose to HBK, its Vince's company, Vince's belt, his to do with as he damn well chooses. If he wants to get on TV tonight at No Way Out, and strip Orton of the belt, and give it to Hornswaggle, or say that he is just eliminating all of the championships, it is his right to do so. Its his playground, not ours. People want to blame Vince for all of this, but they lose sight of the fact that when it comes to the WWE, Vince is the BOSS. Is he a saint? No. Has he made some rather questionable decisions? Of course. But when it comes to his property, he has the right to do anything he damn well chooses with his belts. THEY ARE HIS.

 

[X]

See X is fun to debate with. So I'm getting ready to go to bed, but X, I'll leave you with one thing and I want your story on it. Bret signs a twenty year deal. Vince comes to him later on and says he can't afford to pay him, so they agree to spread the payments out and all is well. Vince comes back to him again and says the same thing about defered payments. Bret already agreed to this once and this time with the financial situation in the WWE being what it is, what else was Bret to do. He wasn't going to work for free. And like it or not, Veterans in any sport make more then the younger guys. Sure, wrestling doesn't have collective bargaining and a union and all that, but it's pretty universally known, the guy with the most staying power gets the biggest check. I don't see how Vince saying he can't pay Bret the money he is contractually obligated too and the contract that Vince was okay with makes Bret selfish. My opinion, don't offer a guy a twenty year contract if you don't intend to offer it.

Hey, like I had said before Shocky, Vince McMahon wasn't a shining star himself. He is an asshole, who's pulled some of the dirtiest tricks in the business to stay on top (especially in the 80s). I'm not calling Bret Hart selfish for going to WCW, or taking that contract. Vince knew he wasn't going to able to resign Bret, there wasn't enough money. But when Bret signed the WCW deal, and was on his way out in that week leading up to Survivor Series, what was selfish was him refusing to lose to HBK. Because it was his job. And the fact that he thought he was above and better then those in the WWF and thought he didn't owe it to them to job to HBK, was selfish. If he was the true mature one in the situation, he would've agreed to drop the belt, like his boss of many years was asking him, and then moved on with a handshake and a smile. Simple as that. But he didn't do that, because he felt it was beneath him. Thats what I think was selfish of Bret.

And as far as drawing power in 1997, Bret was just as big of a draw in 97 as Undertaker and Austin, hell he was the heel that made the company go until HBK came back full time in September. Bret was still a viable draw for the company.

Meh, not really. Haven't we had a ton of discussions about how Bret was never a drawing champion in his time? Ever? You're thinking of this, as someone else put it, from an emotions standpoint, as opposed to a business standpoint. Which is what the Montreal Screwjob was. It wasn't some personal dispute or emotional screwjob, it was a business decision. One that resulted in nothing but profits for the WWE. So ya can't say it didn't work out in the end.

 

[seanoc17]

I'm Sorry, but Bret hart did not have a broken back. I seem to remember a certain Mr Michaels gutting it out and giving Stone Cold a clean win at wrestlemania because he deserved it!

As far as dropping the belt goes, Bret Hart could have dropped the belt at any given point before survivor series if he wanted to to anyone and have his grudge match in montreal where HBK would have put him over. HBK wouldn't have wanted to but he would have done it all the same.

HBK has moved on and only ever mentions it when asked. Bret seems to bring it up and yes, what happened to him was awful, but as HBK said, he has accepted his part of the blame, Vince has accepted his part, is about time Bret Hart stopped trying to be a martyr and realised that it was everyone's combined attitudes about the whole situation which lead to that happening. Bret should have dropped the title, Vince shouldn't have made him drop it in that way. I don't personally blame HBK because he only did what his boss asked him to do, and he did it for less than half the money Bret was being paid at the time.

 

[BooCocky]

Make your mind up, you've gone from saying 3 months, to 5 months, to 4.

Well the first was a guess, but i believe it was a tad over 4 months. He was out for roughly 4 and a half months.

Did I say I expected less? HBK was one of the people that put Hardy over, just accept it.

Accept what? The fact that he got the last pin at Survivor Series and he pinned Triple H? Hardy was already over.

that doesn't change the fact that what Bret wanted to do - as in forfeit the title - would've made the WWE and Michaels look weak.

Same thing Shawn wanted to do. But its okay for Shawn and not Bret?

it doesn't matter if HBK acted like an asshole to Bret or not, Bret did the same thing back to HBK instead of being the bigger man and a professional about it, Bret Hart came out at WM 13, the biggest stage in professional wrestling, and shot on HBK,

Why did he shoot? Because HBK was unwilling to lose to Hart?

that's a huge fucking no no, and may have been one of the reason Vince didn't trust him to vacate the title the night after Survivor Series, Bret acted like a pissy little five year old,

But it's okay for Shawn to make a stupid little speech? Its okay for Shawn to forfeit the title, but its not okay for Bret to do the same? Shawns vacated 3 major titles in that Era, Ya No?

and is still holding a grudge over it ten years later, even though everyone else has moved on with their lives

Because he was loyal to the company for 13 years, a company that turned their back on one of the hardest working men in the business. A guy that brought prestige to every single belt he touched?

 

[Shadowmancer]

Same thing Shawn wanted to do. But its okay for Shawn and not Bret?

Why did he shoot? Because HBK was unwilling to lose to Hart?

But it's okay for Shawn to make a stupid little speech? Its okay for Shawn to forfeit the title, but its not okay for Bret to do the same? Shawns vacated 3 major titles in that Era, Ya No?

Because he was loyal to the company for 13 years, a company that turned their back on one of the hardest working men in the business. A guy that brought prestige to every single belt he touched?

Shawn dropped the title because he was injured. Bret was going to drop the title and go to WCW thereby making the WWF look like it was the inferior product with Inferior talent. Going out Undefeated. That would be a stupid business decision, despite what Bret said, Eric Bischoff would have more than likely gone and announced it after Survivor Series making the WWF look weak. Shawn made his speech so he could go and get Surgery. Anyway the entire point of Shawn dropping the titles has been discussed before and it is a lesser thing when you consider what would be claimed when Bret got to WCW despite whether announced after Survivor Series or not. An Undefeated Champ of one promotion going to another is a huge blow no matter who it is. Chris Benoit leaving with the WCW title won was a huge blow. If John Cena or Edge left for TNA that would be a huge blow for the WWE. Therefore I will say that Vince was in the right in this case. That is how I see it after seeing two of the 4 stories That I want to see about the Screwjob.

 

[BooCocky]

Shawn dropped the title because he was injured.

Wait was he injured? The miss diagnosis of basically an entire career? Coincidence? I think not.

Bret was going to drop the title and go to WCW thereby making the WWF look like it was the inferior product with Inferior talent.

How is that possible? When it was Mr McMahon himself who agreed with the forfeiting of the title. So you are telling me, he had the right to do because he wanted to screw em all along? Not taking the word of one of the most dedicated workers in the entire business?

Going out Undefeated. That would be a stupid business decision, despite what Bret said,

Do you mean the same thing when Bret and Vince both came to an agreement on the forfeiting of the title?

Eric Bischoff would have more than likely gone and announced it after Survivor Series making the WWF look weak.

How would it make the WWF look weak? Hart comes in Monday, walks into the Arena, hands the belt to Vince or whomever and walk out. Its doing the same as vacating the title. Never defeating the champion. Shawn did that several times in that Era. He was unwilling to do the job.

Shawn made his speech so he could go and get Surgery.

Wasn't that the same injury that was so called career threatening?

Anyway the entire point of Shawn dropping the titles has been discussed before and it is a lesser thing when you consider what would be claimed when Bret got to WCW despite whether announced after Survivor Series or not.

HBK not dropping the title can go right along with Hart, both unwilling too do the job, it isn't a mere coinicidence that someone has a miss diagnosis, and they come back four months to screw their biggest rival.

An Undefeated Champ of one promotion going to another is a huge blow no matter who it is. Chris Benoit leaving with the WCW title won was a huge blow. If John Cena or Edge left for TNA that would be a huge blow for the WWE. Therefore I will say that Vince was in the right in this case. That is how I see it after seeing two of the 4 stories That I want to see about the Screwjob.

Hart wasn't undefeated, he would have left without ever getting pinned. A big difference. If i remember correctly, Benoit left about the time WCW was going under, so their was really no help. WCW was losing money. It was a better decision on Benoits part. Because at the time he left when the business was basically at his worse.

 

[X]

Wait was he injured? The miss diagnosis of basically an entire career? Coincidence? I think not.

So then Dr. James Andrews performed surgery on HBK's knee for just the sheer heck of it huh? Just felt like it needed a tune up? Please. Stop the bullshit. HBK had an injured knee, as proven by the surgery and rehab he did. Or did he just decide to take the time out of his life for just fun?

How is that possible? When it was Mr McMahon himself who agreed with the forfeiting of the title. So you are telling me, he had the right to do because he wanted to screw em all along? Not taking the word of one of the most dedicated workers in the entire business?

I don't even know what the hell you're trying to say here. None of it makes sense. But I can take out of it that you're saying that Vince should've taken the word of Bret Hart? Vince did trust Bret. Vince didn't trust Eric Bischoff, who was going to be Bret's new boss in a few days. The same Eric Bischoff who so publicly expressed his love for knocking the WWF at every possible chance, from dropping belts into garbage cans, to regularly giving away the results of RAW, you honestly think that Bischoff wouldn't of made something out of the fact that the WWF Champion was now in his company? Don't be naive.

How would it make the WWF look weak? Hart comes in Monday, walks into the Arena, hands the belt to Vince or whomever and walk out. Its doing the same as vacating the title. Never defeating the champion. Shawn did that several times in that Era. He was unwilling to do the job.

Shawn never vacated a title for any reason other then being injured. What do you want the company to do? Keep the title on an injured wrestler? Didn't your boy John Cena suffer an injury and vacate the title if I remember correctly? HBK was legitimately injured, and you can't get over that fact.

Vacating the title because of injury is one thing. It doesn't make your company look weak. But when someone vacates a title because they're leaving the company and onto bigger things, it makes the belt he was carrying and the company look like shit. WCW was not dead in January of 2000 when Benoit left for the WWF, and I remember when that happened and the backlash against WCW. Thats when the ratings really started to drop, was in the year 2000.

HBK not dropping the title can go right along with Hart, both unwilling too do the job, it isn't a mere coinicidence that someone has a miss diagnosis, and they come back four months to screw their biggest rival.

What misdiagnosis? The man had surgery; he had rehab. How the hell is that considered "unwilling to do the job" when he's injured? Bret wasn't injured. HBK was. What don't you get?

 

[HighFalutinTutin]

Sorry, I only read two pages... but I got a little confused by the contention that Bret Hart according to Vince was "too old" to compete in the WWF any more. Wasn't "Macho Man" Randy Savage still in the WWF? I'm not sure if Hogan was. (Or was this after Hogan went over to WCW to become part of the NWO?) I think the real reason Bret was screwed is because he was a very proud, partriotic CANADIAN! He didn't wave the American flag, in fact he even insulted the US on many occassions. I also wanted to point out that while Chris Jericho wrestled for ECW, Joey Styles continually reminded fans the man was "The Last Survivor of the Hart Family Dungeon." I don't think WCW or WWF capitalized on this moniker.

Off topic: How come "Macho Man" Randy Savage & Ted DiBiase were allowed to keep their signature names when they went to WCW? Why didn't the WWF force them to use new ring names? I read on Wikipedia that WWF had trademarked the word "Dudley" even though term was coined by Raven during the Dudley's ECW tenure. So anyhow, that's why the former Dudley Boyz are Team 3-D on TNA.

 

[Baun]

"Bret screwed Bret" i agree with Vince, Bret was to proud to lose in front of his canadian fanbase, yea bullshit, I have seen tons of wrestlers lose in their hometowns before, Ric Flair, Edge, John Cena, Bret just wanted to go out undefeated and go to WCW and say, "hey i am the real WWF champion" he has an ego like alot of people do, and if it was not for the WWF Bret would not have made it so big, even when bret was in WCW, they screwed him over right and left, and if Vince would have told Bret that he had to lose, Bret would have no showed the event, Vince had to do something and the Canadian Screw Job was the answer, it happened ten fucking years ago, DEAl with it.

 

[The Dungeon]

Wow...my head hurts reading all this crap!!!!!!!

"Bret screwed Bret" i agree with Vince, Bret was to proud to lose in front of his canadian fanbase, yea bullshit, I have seen tons of wrestlers lose in their hometowns before, Ric Flair, Edge, John Cena, Bret just wanted to go out undefeated and go to WCW and say, "hey i am the real WWF champion" he has an ego like alot of people do, and if it was not for the WWF Bret would not have made it so big, even when bret was in WCW, they screwed him over right and left, and if Vince would have told Bret that he had to lose, Bret would have no showed the event, Vince had to do something and the Canadian Screw Job was the answer, it happened ten fucking years ago, DEAl with it.

Yeah, because Bret was notorious for no showing!!!! Whatever man...get a clue!!

Yeah? Do you think those wrestlers...and the fans in those hometowns were happy? Vince may see it as getting heat on the heels...I see it as outright stupidity and a major burial!

I was there when Edge lost the belt to Cena at Unforgiven in Toronto...I haven't seen a crowd that pissed off in years!!!! I honestly thought some people were going to storm the ring. Security was pretty heavy!!! And I've been going to wrestling events for the WWF as well as WCW and Indy Promotions, for 21 years now.

You seem to know Bret Hart very well to assume that he'd go to WCW and say that on TV! Bret said to Vince....bottom line...it's been stated by Bret in his book...and Vince has admitted this in TV interviews...that Bret was willing to drop it any other way, accept in Montreal, to Shawn!

Then he was willing to drop it Shawn...but not in Montreal!

Bret only suggested the forefitting of the belt when word leaked out (by Vince and the WWF I might add) of Bret leaving!!!

Bret also stated in his book...and you can tell by the recorded convo that played in Wrestling With Shadows...that it was "a suggestion, not a demand".

 

[The Dungeon]

So then Dr. James Andrews performed surgery on HBK's knee for just the sheer heck of it huh? Just felt like it needed a tune up? Please. Stop the bullshit. HBK had an injured knee, as proven by the surgery and rehab he did. Or did he just decide to take the time out of his life for just fun?

Well I watched an RF Video shoot with Shawn...he said that he took time off! He never mentioned any surgery!

It seems kind of strange to me that he was dancing around less than a month later, yet when he had knee surgery this past year, he was gone for 5 months!!!!!

don't even know what the hell you're trying to say here. None of it makes sense. But I can take out of it that you're saying that Vince should've taken the word of Bret Hart? Vince did trust Bret. Vince didn't trust Eric Bischoff, who was going to be Bret's new boss in a few days. The same Eric Bischoff who so publicly expressed his love for knocking the WWF at every possible chance, from dropping belts into garbage cans, to regularly giving away the results of RAW, you honestly think that Bischoff wouldn't of made something out of the fact that the WWF Champion was now in his company? Don't be naive.

Here you do bring up a very good point!

However...Bischoff did mention in a radio interview he did (which I wrote an article on years bac) shortly after WCW closed it's doors, that he had no intention of doing that, mainly due to the fact he was up to his ears in litigation with the WWF and Vince, as it was at the time.

Shawn never vacated a title for any reason other then being injured. What do you want the company to do? Keep the title on an injured wrestler? Didn't your boy John Cena suffer an injury and vacate the title if I remember correctly? HBK was legitimately injured, and you can't get over that fact.

Shawn has forefitted more titles than anyone in WWE history...it's a fact!!

Vacating the title because of injury is one thing. It doesn't make your company look weak. But when someone vacates a title because they're leaving the company and onto bigger things, it makes the belt he was carrying and the company look like shit. WCW was not dead in January of 2000 when Benoit left for the WWF, and I remember when that happened and the backlash against WCW. Thats when the ratings really started to drop, was in the year 2000.

Well, if this is true? Then why the hell did Vince never bring it up? I mean, we've heard all about the convo's the two of them had! That concept was never brought up!

Bret has said countless times, the forefitting was just a suggestion, not a demand, and that he didn't have to beat Shawn at all! And Shawn had already beaten Bret once before, and buried him on TV in the weeks leading up to Montreal.

Speaking of looking weak...what about Bret? Making HIM look weak was ok? I know "But He Was Going to THE COMPETITION..blah blah blah"...again...Bret...didn't...want...too...leave!!!! And I truly believe, IMO, he was intentionally phased out so he would take the WCW deal.

What misdiagnosis? The man had surgery; he had rehab. How the hell is that considered "unwilling to do the job" when he's injured? Bret wasn't injured. HBK was. What don't you get?

Rehab? He was back in less than a month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shaheer3]

i just think Bret should have stayed. I mean everyone loved him he was getting good title runs he was having amazing matches and he just threw it all away for money. Once he got into WCW it seemed he didn't have a lot of good matches and not that much titles. If only he stayed with the WWE he would have been a legend like Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair. And of course Vince said he doesn't trust him taking the belt to WCW this is a business where you have to watch your back and plus Bret sold out for money so i think he would have took the title to WCW.

 

[reddevil69]

i just think Bret should have stayed. I mean everyone loved him he was getting good title runs he was having amazing matches and he just threw it all away for money. Once he got into WCW it seemed he didn't have a lot of good matches and not that much titles. If only he stayed with the WWE he would have been a legend like Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair. And of course Vince said he doesn't trust him taking the belt to WCW this is a business where you have to watch your back and plus Bret sold out for money so i think he would have took the title to WCW.

you seem to be forgetting that Bret turned down WCW a year previous and stayed with Vince for a third of the money that Bischoff offered him...i'm sick of hearing about how Bret sold out for the money...if he wanted the cash he would have taken it and fucked off in 1996, not re-signed with WWF...Shawn was never offered that kind of deal by WCW, if he had been, he probably would have been the one to leave...he has admitted as much in his book that he was miserable and wanted to be with his buddies Nash and Hall in WCW...

 

[HBK-aholic]

As much as I dislike Bret Hart for what happened here, I don't think it's fair for anyone to say he sold out for the money. It was McMahon that told him to look to WCW, as the WWE couldn't afford to pay him as much as they currently were, as he wasn't as big a draw as first thought. Also with WCW taking business off of them it made it a lot harder to continue the paycheck for someone who wasn't making the WWE as much money.

Personally, I don't think money is what it's all about, but what you have to remember is that these men have a right to go for the opportunities that will help them more in life. Dislike for Hart aside, if he wanted more money, and was told by his boss to look elsewhere, there's nothing completely wrong in doing so. What was wrong about Hart, is refusing to drop the belt.

 

[The Dungeon]

What was wrong about Hart, is refusing to drop the belt

Yup...becauase Shawn never did that!!! PLEASE!

 

[stedman262]

everyone is making good points,but as the topic says '10 years on montreal screwjob',can we not move on from it?can bret not move on from it?he was screwed out of the title,which i guess at the time was horrible,very embarrassing etc,but seeing as he was going to wcw anyway its not that bad. But for him and everyone to still hold a grudge 10 years down the line,is pathetic,yeah i said it,bret hart is pathetic.I'll sit here and await the criticism.

 

[jarose24]

I am as a big a Bret Hart mark as anybody but Vince did what he felt was right and for his company. Bret did what he felt was right and I don't blame him for taking his stance. HBK and HHH were a huge political force by being on the booking team. Bret, being there longer than anybody else at the time felt like he could stick up for the rest of the locker room and traditions of the business. Shawn didn't want to do business so Bret didn't right back. With Bret's tenure there if anybody could challenge that it was him. There were plans to go several other routes had they decided to keep the belt on Bret. Contrary to popular belief (HHH), Bret's contract was not going to expire the next night and they could have set those plans in motion to take the belt off Bret ultimatley after staying an extra month. It's a shame it had to come down to what it came to just a huge lack of communication from everyone involved to set everything straight.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Yup...becauase Shawn never did that!!! PLEASE!

And tell me when Shawn did it when he was leaving the company? Seriously, I'd love to know.

Bret Hart was leaving the company, he wasn't going to be champion anymore regardless. The thing is, Bret forgot to honour a huge tradition in wrestling. That being that when you leave a company, you drop the belt to the next person who will take over your position, just as someone did to you for you to become champion. For some reason, Hart thought he was above this.

It was a business decision taken by McMahon to go through with this. Shawn didn't come up with the idea, he did what he was asked by his boss. Bret Hart should have done what was asked, he didn't. He refused to drop the belt. So in my opinion, he didn't deserve to be shown that respect anyway.

 

[klunderbunker]

I've never thought it was fair to blame Shawn for what happened. He was just a catalyst for what happened that night. Anyone could've been in his spot and just about the same thing would've happened. It could've been anyone from Hardcore Holly to the Undertaker in that sharpshooter and the ending more than likely would've been the same. Hart got screwed that night, but was it justified? Hard to say. Yes he was being selfish that night. Vince's hands were tied to an extent, but both parties were at fault in one way or another here. Oddly enough, the innocent one is probably Shawn.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Becca he wasnt leaving the company necessarily that night. His contract was up in a couple monthes after. So that argument is null, really. They couldve had him drop it to anyone else, in any other place, and things wouldve been fine. Why not let him go out with a victory over his arch rival as his last win in WWE?? Vacate the belt the next night and roll with it. Bret Hart could be appearing for the WWE TODAY if it want for what happened. Even Vince himself says he was wrong, so who are you to say he wasnt??...An HBK fan, thats what

 

[HBK-aholic]

There are so many rumours about when his contract ran out, and yet I can find no actual proof to find out either way.
But, since when do you say no to dropping the belt when you're leaving? Vince has in fact said Bret didn't uphold the traditions of WWE, and he believes he owes him nothing. Which he doesn't.
How stupid of a business decision would it be to let Hart beat Shawn, the next WWE champion so close to him leaving? It'd basically show the best of WWE couldn't beat the best of WCW. And then there's always the small matter of worry Hart was going to take the belt to WCW and make a mockery of it.
And it has nothing to do with being a HBK fan, or anything else, because HBK was only the one who carried it out for Vince, if anyone should come under fire it's Vince or Bret, possibly Triple H.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

LOL the best of WWE couldnt beat the best of WCW?? Your serious??? Yes, because Bret, and his talents were SO immensley used in WCW, he was certainley pushed as the best of WCW .....and HBK was nothing more than a transitional champ before Austin and the attitude era started, so the whole "next WWE champion" thing is rather insignificant.

And you say no to it to someone who said they wouldnt do the same for you, is blatantly disrespectfull to you and your legacy, in your home were you are a hero. And BRET didnt uphold traditions??? How the fuck so?? and BTW Id love to hear were you got that quote from, becuase ive never heard Vince be anything but apologetic about the screwjob. And if he really did say that, um im fairly sure he, HBK, and Trips have no place to talk on "upholding traditions" in regards to that scenario, when Shawn and Trips were at the time two of the most notorious for refusing to job.

And there is absolutely no reason to belive bret hart was taking that belt to WCW. He has said before, as has bischoff, that there was plans to do so, and there was no chance bret wouldve done it anyway.

 

[The Dungeon]

It's not a rumor...it's true...he handed in his NOTICE on Nov.1st!! Bret has said it, Vince acknowledged it in TV interviews....It's in Bret's book....Shawn has actually said, shortly before Survivor Series, Bret handed in his notice!!! And other wrestlers who were in the company knew about it too! And here's another PROVEN fact....Bret was actually scheduled for some house shows in the next couple weeks....yeah, he was advertised!

He gave his notice Nov.1st...end of story!!!!!

And your hero Shawn Michaels, actually acknowledged this in a way on Raw, on Nov.24.1997....the night he brought out the Midget Bret Hart! He said, "Bret Hart is still under contract to the WWF". Otherwise, why didn't WCW jump on this thing right away, and put Bret on Nitro, either the next night, or the next week...or ANYTIME before he actually appeared! Because, legally...he couldn't!!!!!

Nov.1st was the day.....that was the day Bischoff gave him to make his decision...that was the day he told Vince he'd have his decision! NOV.1st!! So quite grasping straws!!!

No Shawn only refused to drop the belt at the biggest show of the year, the show that was going to be the big turnaround for the WWF...and almost refused to drop it to the biggest star! (I'm talking about WM14, so there's no confusion) Something that has been acknowledged in interviews by parties involved! If you want the sources, I have some of them on tape, I'll glady find them!

See, Vince never said he didn't uphold the traditions of teh WWF, let's be specific here, Vince McMahon said, Bret didn't follow the time honoured traditions, of the "Business". Now tell me how rediculous this is, coming from Vince FRIGGIN McMahon of all people! The guy has broken every single "time honoured tradition" in the book!

Now in my opinion, Bret was following the old school traditions of this business!! If this were happening to Lou Thesz or any other old schooler, I guarantee they would've stood there ground! Heck, Thesz's personal problems with Buddy Rogers come to mind!

However....I'm at least glad HBK-aholic....that you ackowledged the fact that Bret didn't leave for the money!!!!! Because every other HBK mark on this board...seems to think so!

 

[ilovewrestling47]

I believe Bret screwed Bret. He is a grown man who was too stubborn to drop the belt in his home country because of his stupid pride. All of us has to swallow our pride at some time. I realize he was devoted to the company, but HBK was the new star. I realize HBK was a prick but you needed somebody who could carry the company for more years in the future. HBK still wrestles today. He is also still very talented and exciting to watch. As I think HHH said, "Shawn could have a match with a broom and make the broom look good." Bret doesn't wrestle. (I know Goldberg injured him, but do any of us think he would still be wrestling today?)

Also, does anybody think we should have a poll? Bret Screwed Bret, Vince Screwed Bret, Who Cares, and We Need To Move On.