10 years on Montreal Screwjob

[reddevil69]

Trust me I've read Shawns book. Repeatedly. So there's nothing in it I don't know. Vince McMahon asked Shawn to do what he did. Shawn would have never done so without McMahons say on the matter. In the end, Shawn was just the person who did it. Peoples feelings about Shawn mean little. It was about McMahon and Hart. Shawn came into it in order to go through with this, but as has been said, it was about McMahon and what he thought was best for the business.

If McMahon had even a slight worry Hart would take the belt to WCW, which would cause huge damage, why would he risk that? And Shawn was the guy Vince had chosen to take over the company, what would it say to have the 'best of WCW' defeat the 'Best of WWE'? It was a concious business decision by McMahon, nothing personal involved.

From Shawn's book and i quote from page 266:

Vince in response to Hunter saying they could not risk Bret leaving with the belt: "there is nothing we can do about that.my hand's are tied.what can we do about it?"
Shawn writes, "it was my turn to chime in"

Shawn:" I'll do whatever you want.We'll just take it off him.I'll swerve him or whatever i have to. You tell me what needs to get done. You and this company have put up with so much from me, my loyalty is here with you. I will do whatever you want."

Vince: " What are we talking about Shawn?"

Shawn: "Whatever it takes. If we have to do a fast count or get him in a hold and tell someone to ring the bell, i'll do whatever you want me too."

Vince:" That's pretty serious, it'll have to be a last resort"

you didn't read the book enough times obviously. That is proof right there that Shawn had already planned on doing something to screw Bret from day one. Vince did not bring up the option, HHH and Shawn did. Now shawn also says that Vince was thinking it but couldn't ask him to do it...he had to volunteer...wow..how noble of him...that's like wanting to shoot somone and laying the gun on the table and having someone else pick it up and pull the trigger.

Vince considered it and went with it, but don't tell me Shawn was an innocent bystander in all of this...he was a ******** in 1997, self-admitted...he was out of his head on pills many nights, self-admitted and he wanted to push Bret out of the WWE and out of his way so he could be the top dog, and the fact that he did not want to drop the belt to Austin is proof that he did not want to lose his spot and help an up and coming star rise to the top...and Austin has stated on his dvd and in his book that Shawn resented his push and was not thrilled about Steve taking the belt from him....Shawn did the job, but he did it kicking and screaming.

 

[HBK-aholic]

That extract proves? I'm not saying Shawn didn't have his own ideas on what could happen, I'm sure many people had their own opinions. Truth of the matter is, Vince told Shawn what to do. It was his decision, no one elses.

And yes, before Shawns injury of 1998, he acted like a ********. He disrespected the people you don't disrespect, he was arrogant among other things. No one would ever deny that's how he acted. And he isn't 'innocent' as he himself has said many times. But Montreal was Vince and Bret. Accept that.

As for Austin, if you're talking about Wrestlemania 14, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that. Did you see the end of that match? Shawn had an Austin 3:16 shirt over his body, while he laid in the ring. The match, especially thinking about the position Shawn was in, was great. He didn;t have to wrestle that night due to the awful injury he had, yet he did.

 

[reddevil69]

That extract proves? I'm not saying Shawn didn't have his own ideas on what could happen, I'm sure many people had their own opinions. Truth of the matter is, Vince told Shawn what to do. It was his decision, no one elses.

And yes, before Shawns injury of 1998, he acted like a ********. He disrespected the people you don't disrespect, he was arrogant among other things. No one would ever deny that's how he acted. And he isn't 'innocent' as he himself has said many times. But Montreal was Vince and Bret. Accept that.

As for Austin, if you're talking about Wrestlemania 14, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that. Did you see the end of that match? Shawn had an Austin 3:16 shirt over his body, while he laid in the ring. The match, especially thinking about the position Shawn was in, was great. He didn;t have to wrestle that night due to the awful injury he had, yet he did.

That proves that Shawn was not innocent of manipulating the situation...what are you talking about?..it's quoted from the book...HIS book.

It was not just about Bret and Vince. Shawn stuck his nose in and politically positioned himself in the middle because of his disdain for Bret. What should have been about Vince and Bret turned into something that got out of hand because of Shawn being a disruptive instigator who stirred up shit for almost a year with Bret.

and yeah Shawn did the match, but does that excuse all the headaches he caused leading up to it...he had Vince and Austin stressed out about the finish right up until the afternoon of the event...that is a fact stated by both Vince and austin, as well as Undertaker and i have the video interviews of each guy to prove it.

Taker had to have 'words' with shawn that day to let him know that his crap was not being tolerated any longer...yeah Shawn says Taker never threatened him with taped up fists in his book...that means his fists were not taped...that's called putting a spin on the situation...he's not admitting anything except one minor detail that did not take place...I have a 30 minute interview with Taker from 2002 where he clearly answers the question that he had to discipline Shawn with "let me put it to you this way..if it hadn't have been done the way it was, it would have been a very long night for Shawn Michaels, because i was going to do what i thought needed to be done".

that tells me something did in fact take place between the two and i'll take Taker's word, who is universally respected by everyone in the business including the Ultimate Warrior who has nothing good to say about anyone, over Shawn's any day.

 

[The Dungeon]

okay i can see since you are "the dungeon" , you have got to be a hart mark. now im sorry if i insulted your canadian superman, but bret hart is the type of guy who started to believe his own press. he thought that he really was the WORLD CHAMPION. i liked his deal when i was 12. he got real old real fast. now the point i was trying to get across was, bret didnt do business the right way, he thought that he had earned the right to dictate how and when he lost the belt. he said "oh i dont want to lose in canada" when what he really meant was "oh i dont want to lose to shawn". what did he have to lose by lying down for shawn? nothing. would any of us really care that bret hart lost to hbk again. no we were all excited to see what he could do against a new crop of opponents such as sting and hogan. bret acted like a spoiled brat and he got what was coming to him. if i was mcmahon, after he punched me i would have knocked him on his ass. now i dont respect bret because, his brother was killed due to the wwe being NEGLIGENT,and now bret is back up mcmahons ass. while bret is schmoozing vince, i hope he is thinking of his neice and nephew that are now fatherless due to a stupid unneccesary stunt. the screw job is the best thing that could have happened to bret, because without it, would we still be talking about him. face it, bret was mediocre at best.

Ah....attacking my name...how 4th grade of you!

Well I can play that game....I see "before yout got banned for being a dumbass I'm guessing"....that you had a picture of Tazz on your profile! Yeah....'nuff said!

Let me tell you something...the name "The Dungeon"....is a term of RESPECT...and a reference to the whole Hart legacy.....as well as all of Canadian wrestling...and the graduates who came out of the Dungeon......not just Bret!

Actually he did have the right to dictated it....IT WAS WRITTEN IN HIS CONTRACT!!!!!

He felt it would be devistating to his character....he'd been buried on TV for weeks leading up to the show! And from a personal standpoint...Shawn making it abundantly clear that Bret wouldn't put him over? Come on! I would hope that 'Taker would take a stand if Batista refused to ever do that for him!! You better believe there'd be a problem!

So Bret had problems from both a personal and character standpoint....he said he would drop it to Shawn...but not in Canada...Bret has stated he didn't want to drop it to Shawn period....but said if that's what Vince wanted, he wanted to do it differently! He has also stated he didn't need to get a clean cut win over Shawn in Montreal or anything like that!

Up McMahon's ass eh? What are you basing that on? The fact he did a DVD and had creative control over it....that must be it!!

Or maybe it was McMahon publishing Bret's book?? Whoops...wait a second...that didn't happen at all!

I highly doubt that Bret even sees Owen's kids...because Martha is a bitter tyrant who has kept them away from the Hart family!

Everyone talks about Bret because of the screwjob. Nobody has mentioned that this is a business and he was an independent contractor. He got paid to do what was asked and told to him. Now Bret is no Wayne Gretzkey to the people of Canada. He wished he was. He wanted to be more but was nothing. He doesn't like Shawn Michaels. Not many people do. So What? He should have been professional and did his job and left. I do understand him being upset about his brother Owen. But Vince didn't strap Owen up to secure him. Remember Shawn Michaels once came from the top on a rope during a payperview himself. Bret reminds me of Bruno Sammartino. People who bitch about their old jobs. They need to get over it.

ANd you remind me of every moron that's talked about this subject on tis board!

And dumbass...it's called taking a stand and not condoning disrespect!

How do you know Bret wanted to be as big as Gretzky? Do you know Bret personally???? I've never heard Bret ever say that! And if you live in Canada, you must be liiving in a cave, because last I checked Bret was voted the 39th Greatest Canadian in a poll conducted by CBC Television...NATIONWIDE....beating legendary historical figures, politicians, other athletes, singers, etc.

first off , hogan held the belt 5 times as well and he sucked in the ring. bret would have never been given the belt in the first place if it wasnt for vinces steroid trial and his attempt to push smaller non enhanched talent. all brets matches were the same. people, including myself talk shit about cena being repetitive, well bret hart was one of the most predictable wrestlers ive ever seen. and for your comment about his hero status in germany i have two words for you............. DAVID HASSELHOFF.

If you're american...I got 2 words for you....BACKSTREET BOYS! Thank u...

First of all, you're hanging onto straws here aren't you? What does Triple H have anything to do with anything that happens with Shawn Michaels. Please, recount Shawns last title run for me? And then tell me that HHH has anything to do with what Shawn does in the ring.

Nobody said that....you did.....he was just saying it doesn't hurt!!!

Both men have been in the wrong regarding that. Both have also been in the right. Your point?

Hard to fault Hart for his alleged stubborness.....that's the point!!!

As for Austin, if you're talking about Wrestlemania 14, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion on that. Did you see the end of that match? Shawn had an Austin 3:16 shirt over his body, while he laid in the ring. The match, especially thinking about the position Shawn was in, was great. He didn;t have to wrestle that night due to the awful injury he had, yet he did.

WOW....Guess that makes everything great...guess that means Shawn acted like a complete professional that night!!!

I admire Shawn for going out there in the end....but he did it kicking and screaming, and knowing he'd have hell to pay if he didn't! So excuse me for not kissing Shawn's ass!

 

[HBK-aholic]

Nobody said that....you did.....he was just saying it doesn't hurt!!!

Which is obviously implying his friendship with Hunter could have something to do with his career, which isn't true. If he wasn't trying to get something of the effect across, he just wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

WOW....Guess that makes everything great...guess that means Shawn acted like a complete professional that night!!!

He used this match as an example, when here, you've agreed with me he acted like a professional during that match.

I admire Shawn for going out there in the end....but he did it kicking and screaming, and knowing he'd have hell to pay if he didn't! So excuse me for not kissing Shawn's ass!

I don't think any of my post was directed at you, therefore I'm not asking you to 'lick Shawn's ass' or anything similar, am I? Don't like Shawn, I don't care, and I don't really think he does either.

 

[The Dungeon]

Which is obviously implying his friendship with Hunter could have something to do with his career, which isn't true. If he wasn't trying to get something of the effect across, he just wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

What about there 8 million matches with one another that main evented a number of PPV's???

He used this match as an example, when here, you've agreed with me he acted like a professional during that match.

If you can't detect Sarcasm in my statement...you need to read between the lines more dude!

I don't think any of my post was directed at you, therefore I'm not asking you to 'lick Shawn's ass' or anything similar, am I? Don't like Shawn, I don't care, and I don't really think he does either.

Well you would've said to me eventually....the guy you said it to is my friend!

 

[TheOneBigWill]

JUST A REMINDER: THIS IS A THREAD REGARDING THE MONTREAL SCREWJOB!​

This thread was made in reflection of discussing the Montreal Screwjob, not Shawn Michaels' relationship with Triple H. as it reflects anything outside of the Screwjob. If you wish to dispute any relationship the two have, either do it in the Triple H. thread, or find a thread that will allow the discussion to remain on topic.

As far as this thread is concerned.. please return all debating and discussion to the topic at hand. Thank You.

 

[psykohurricane]

So it's been 10 years already since The Montreal Screwjob happen and yet everybody still discussing it like if it was yesterday. Like HBK said a couple of years ago to vince mcmahon, can we all just move on already. Everyone that was involve in this has. HBK moved on, Bret HArt move on even the montreal fans move on so why can everybody else just move on like we did.

So Bret got screw by Shawn and Vince, what's the big deal, Bret was just trying to do what was right for is character since vince was pretty much screwing him over for the last couple of years anyway. HBK was just a arrogant little punk that wouldn't do was right for the buiness on less it benefit him and didn't want to put over Bret HArt at Wrestlemania 13 anyway so why blame Bret in this, Shawn did everything in is power to make Bret Hart look bad he even went behind everybody's back to cut personal promos attacking Bret'S character and family when he knew that he wasn'T suppose to do that. Vince was just a little bit scared at the time because he was on the verge of bankcrupcy and could afford to lose HBK so he let him get away with murder. If i would have been Bret Hart i would have done the same thing he did at Survivor series, if a guy doesn'T want to do what right for the company and put you over like shawn did to bret at the beginning of the year, why would bret do the right thing for the buiness and put over shawn at survivor series. Bret did tell the day after the screw job in a interview on TSN in canada that he would have been glad to give up the belt in canada, he just didn't want todrop it to shawn because if shawn was in is place, he wouldn't have done the honor of putting Bret over.

So it's ten years later and this will always be part of the history of pro wrestling and now it'S time to move on and talk about something else.

 

[The Dungeon]

So it's been 10 years already since The Montreal Screwjob happen and yet everybody still discussing it like if it was yesterday. Like HBK said a couple of years ago to vince mcmahon, can we all just move on already. Everyone that was involve in this has. HBK moved on, Bret HArt move on even the montreal fans move on so why can everybody else just move on like we did.

It's not that we haven't moved on, it's just for the fun of debating and discussion. i don't think people seem to grasp how big this was....this was HUGE! So if we can still talk about Wrestlemania III, 20 years later, which was a night that changed wrestling forever....why can't we talk about another night the changed wrestling forever 10 years ago!

And oh yes, I remember Shawn saying that to Vince, and what did they do in that angle? They screwed Shawn in his match with Shane on SNME, later on! Re-enacting the screwjob!!

 

[FoleyIsGod]

So it's been 10 years already since The Montreal Screwjob happen and yet everybody still discussing it like if it was yesterday. Like HBK said a couple of years ago to vince mcmahon, can we all just move on already. Everyone that was involve in this has. HBK moved on, Bret HArt move on even the montreal fans move on so why can everybody else just move on like we did.

You don't understand how much it changed the wrestling world. If there was no screwjob, there would be no Stone Cold vs Mcmahon, there probably wouldnt have been Stone Cold vs The Rock in the way that it meant. There would have been no Corperation, the list of angles that led from the Screwjob are many.

And you blast SHawn Michaels, and make our Hart was the hero. However, they are both as bad as one another. Bret Hart wouldnt drop the title before the show, HBK wouldnt lose to a guy who was moving off to the competition,w hich was destroying the WWe ratings wise. If Bret Hart would have shown up with the belt(which he wouldnt have done, despite what anyone says), it would have killed the WWe off for good. But you had a guy like Bischoff, who would have blasted the WWE and said things about how the real champion was coming to WCW.

In recent years, Bret has understood why Vince did what he had to, which to me, Vince did the right thing in order to keep his company going. I couldnt have seen how it would have worked any other way.

 

[psykohurricane]

You don't understand how much it changed the wrestling world. If there was no screwjob, there would be no Stone Cold vs Mcmahon, there probably wouldnt have been Stone Cold vs The Rock in the way that it meant. There would have been no Corperation, the list of angles that led from the Screwjob are many.

And you blast SHawn Michaels, and make our Hart was the hero. However, they are both as bad as one another. Bret Hart wouldnt drop the title before the show, HBK wouldnt lose to a guy who was moving off to the competition,w hich was destroying the WWe ratings wise. If Bret Hart would have shown up with the belt(which he wouldnt have done, despite what anyone says), it would have killed the WWe off for good. But you had a guy like Bischoff, who would have blasted the WWE and said things about how the real champion was coming to WCW.

In recent years, Bret has understood why Vince did what he had to, which to me, Vince did the right thing in order to keep his company going. I couldnt have seen how it would have worked any other way.

First of all, i know how big it was since i actually was there the day it happen. Now has far as making hart look like the hero, i got just one thing to say to that, yes both guys are in the wrong in this and i didn't want to make Bret look like the good guy in this but after reading both Shawn and Bret version of the event and after seeing the documentary and all of the other interviews that came out after the event, i got to side with Bret on this. Vince had giving Bret creative control for the last 30 days of is contract. Bret went to shawn and said ''i will be happy to do whatever vince wants me to do and i would be happy to put you over and drop the belt to you if that's what vince wants'' to which shawn reply: '' Good because i would do the same thing to you''. So how would you have reacted in that situation. Probably the same way Bret did. The next day he went to vince and said to him to he would drop the belt against anybody except Shawn. He even wanted to drop the belt to Stone Cold who wasn't that big of a star at the time. So even if both guys were in the wrong, i still respect Bret for what he did and having been in is shoes, i would have done the same thing.

 

[BooCocky]

WCW ruined Hart, Montreal did not.
What exactly do you mean by 'dedication'? McMahon didn't force him out of the company, he chose to go.

I disagree, If i remember correctly Hart was willing to stay even though WCW offered him a huge contract, it was McMahon who went up to Hart and asked him to look at the offer. McMahon didnt go up to Bret and force him out but he was hinting he didnt want him around any more because he couldnt afford him. So if you think about McMahon was forcing him out without ever telling him to go.

I'm not debating his reasons for doing so but, that being said, he obviously wasn't as dedicated to the company as you're making out he was. Add in the fact Montreal happened because he wouldn't drop the belt in the first place,

This seems to come full circle, Bret was willing to drop the belt to anyone but Shawn Michaels. Hart didnt wanna job to Michaels because Michaels didnt job to him months earlier.

I think I can safely say he had little dedication to the company.

Hart was very dedicated, he tried his hardest to keep the WWE competitive. He worked day in and day out trying to do whats best for the company. When you give him creative control you should expect him to do what he did. Hart was putting people over, something Michaels rarely did, when Michaels refused to job months earlier i believe it started the whole Austin storyline which was basically the whole upstart of the attitude era anyways.

Saying Hart wasnt dedicated is truly ridiculous. The E, a company Hart worked his ass off for turned there back on him. That would be a pretty rough thing to consume. W/O the dedication of Hart, the WWE wouldnt be nearly as big as it is today.

 

[HBK-aholic]

You truely don't understand what truely happened, I have many sources I can use as a refrence

Okay.

but I'll use Eric's Bishoffs book for this one. Once bret came over to wcw he just didnt have his heart into it and wasn't able to preform to how he did in the wwf.

Bischoffs book?

Anyway, how the hell do you know his heart wasn't in it and that meant he couldn't perform to the standard?

I'm tiered of everyone saying that just because so and so preformed good in the past means that so and so will awalys preform good

.

If we're talking years difference, then I agree. (Unless you're Shawn Michaels, who came back after 4 and was still amazing ) But Hart had been gone from TV, what? A few months? Yeah, a great load of difference there.

You have to understand that blaming the wcw is a popular thing to do

Clearly, the reason I think this is because it's 'popular'. Ever stopped to wonder why so many people have this view?

because they done some things wrong, but the wcw had no control over bret's mental state therefore they had no ability to make anything out of him that he wasn't.

He was an amazing wrestler. You can't get much better than him.

WcW tried to preserve his greatness to the point that they put him in a ring with people like flair so they could work the match for him because at this point he couldnt properly work the match, I had enough of people blaming promotions and bookers over the wrestelers, because its not awalys the wrestelors faults.

WCW was awful. It wasn't down to the wrestlers. To name only 2, they had Hogan and Hart. Arguably 2 of the greatest wrestlers to ever step foot in the ring. Look at what WWE did with them compared to WCW.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I disagree, If i remember correctly Hart was willing to stay even though WCW offered him a huge contract, it was McMahon who went up to Hart and asked him to look at the offer. McMahon didnt go up to Bret and force him out but he was hinting he didnt want him around any more because he couldnt afford him. So if you think about McMahon was forcing him out without ever telling him to go.

There's a difference between 'want' and 'can't'. McMahon always wanted Hart to be in the WWE. Any sane chairman would want someone that talented. But at the time the WWE was in a lot of financial trouble, and Hart wasn't worth that amount of money; no one was. McMahon told Hart he couldn't have continued paying him that amount and knew he was worth more; suggesting he go to WCW. If Hart had wanted to stay, McMahon would have signed him to a contract with a lower salary. Hart took the right business decision and went to the place with more money. Nothing wrong with that.

This seems to come full circle, Bret was willing to drop the belt to anyone but Shawn Michaels. Hart didnt wanna job to Michaels because Michaels didnt job to him months earlier.

Difference? Shawn was injured. Hart just wouldn't.

Hart was very dedicated, he tried his hardest to keep the WWE competitive. He worked day in and day out trying to do whats best for the company. When you give him creative control you should expect him to do what he did. Hart was putting people over, something Michaels rarely did, when Michaels refused to job months earlier i believe it started the whole Austin storyline which was basically the whole upstart of the attitude era anyways.

Saying Hart wasnt dedicated is truly ridiculous. The E, a company Hart worked his ass off for turned there back on him. That would be a pretty rough thing to consume. W/O the dedication of Hart, the WWE wouldnt be nearly as big as it is today.

While I disagree with a few parts, I agree with the rest. I'm not saying Hart didn't do a lot for the WWE during his time there. I'm talking about the time after, where he was leaving. Obviously the dedication wasn't the same. And I'm not trying to undermine anything he did for the company.

 

[Davi323]

When you leave the company, and are a champion, you drop the belt, period. The belt was not Bret Hart's personal property, it was the property of the WWF. I don't give a rat's ass about whether Bret didn't want to job to HBK, or whether Vince drove him to leave the WWF, its all just excuse making. Bret Hart refused to do the job he was asked to do, PERIOD. He could have acted like the man he claims he is, and sucked it up, and dropped the belt, like he was asked to. Instead, he chose to be a bitch, and Vince McMahon took matters into his own hands. If Hart had simply done the job, his emotional state wouldn't have been affected while in WCW. Bret Hart has only Bret Hart to blame for Montreal. Stop making excuses for him, Bret Hart refused to do his job, and paid the price for it. I refuse to feel sorry for him.

 

[Slyfox696]

When you leave the company, and are a champion, you drop the belt, period. The belt was not Bret Hart's personal property, it was the property of the WWF.I don't give a rat's ass about whether Bret didn't want to job to HBK, or whether Vince drove him to leave the WWF, its all just excuse making. Bret Hart refused to do the job he was asked to do, PERIOD. He could have acted like the man he claims he is, and sucked it up, and dropped the belt, like he was asked to. Instead, he chose to be a bitch, and Vince McMahon took matters into his own hands. If Hart had simply done the job, his emotional state wouldn't have been affected while in WCW. Bret Hart has only Bret Hart to blame for Montreal. Stop making excuses for him, Bret Hart refused to do his job, and paid the price for it. I refuse to feel sorry for him.

No offense, but this is quite possibly the most ignorant post I've ever seen on the subject.

1. Bret Hart wasn't leaving the company, he was being forced out.

2. Bret Hart's contract did not end November 17 (or whatever day it was) 1997, it ended in December of 1997.

3. Bret Hart's contract had a reasonable creative control clause in it, guaranteeing him the right, if the WWF were to ever opt out of the contract, to decide how his character was booked.

4. Bret NEVER refused to drop the title, he refused one thing and one thing only, and that was to drop the title in a manner which could affect his drawing power, and thus affect the income he could receive as well as the income his new employer could receive.

5. There was only ONE person in the whole fiasco who acted like a man and that WAS Bret Hart. Shawn Michaels was a coward and denied being a part of it. Vince McMahon looked Hart right in the eye and lied. Triple H looked Bret's wife...his WIFE...in the eye and flat out lied to her. You want to talk about someone acting like a man? How about three *****es act like men, instead of being terrified of getting their ass beat by Bret Hart.

Bret Hart had EVERY legal and reasonable reason to do as he did, even if there were a few unreasonable reasons too. This nonsense that you drop the belt when you leave is just stupid. Hey, how about this?

If you know you're going to fuck over your top talent on his contract, how about not giving him the belt 4 months before you need it back?




Anyone with any shred of common sense knows that to say Bret Hart was wrong in this is ludicrous. How can a guy who got screwed out of a contract, who had a legal standing for what he wanted, and then was looked in the eye and lied to be wrong?

 

[The Dungeon]

There's also of course...and I think I've said this a million and one times on this subject! Shawn's treatment of Bret leading up the show. I believe it was in Tulsa, I could be wrong, I'll have to look it up again, where Shawn and Bret were talking about there impending match.

And Bret trying to be cool about everything, swallowed his pride, went up to Shawn and said, "I have no problem putting you over if that's the direction Vince wants to go". Now remember, Bret still hadn't handed in his notice yet, and was still listening to both Vince & Eric's offers.

Shawn of coruse replies, "I appreciate that, but I'm not willing to do the same for you". Of course, that pisses Bret off, and I'm sorry, but I would not do a big favor for someone like that, if they would never be willing to do the same for me! Bret has mentioned on numerous occasions, that's one of the many reasons he didn't want to drop the belt in Montreal, he said, if Shawn proved that he was team player, then he'd have no problem doing it, but sadly Shawn acted the way he did, and it pissed Bret off.

 

[golden miz]

Okay.




Bischoffs book?

Anyway, how the hell do you know his heart wasn't in it and that meant he couldn't perform to the standard?

.

If we're talking years difference, then I agree. (Unless you're Shawn Michaels, who came back after 4 and was still amazing ) But Hart had been gone from TV, what? A few months? Yeah, a great load of difference there.



Clearly, the reason I think this is because it's 'popular'. Ever stopped to wonder why so many people have this view?



He was an amazing wrestler. You can't get much better than him.



WCW was awful. It wasn't down to the wrestlers. To name only 2, they had Hogan and Hart. Arguably 2 of the greatest wrestlers to ever step foot in the ring. Look at what WWE did with them compared to WCW.

First off this is the dirtsheet view not the real life view, I've been reading these forums for years and now I finnaly decided to chime in. I do have personal intrest in the industry, I've worked in TNA, ROH, WWF, and I even go back as far as working in the AWA, I never wresteled myself only dealt with marketing and pr realated stuff but I have to say what most people see online they believe without any true unerstanding of the situation, I was infact in attendance on the day the montreal screwjob happened and I was Backstage, and I know the true feelings behind the scenes. All this stuff is derived by dirtsheets not fact. In fact the montreal screwjob was just a angle more then it was betrayl, bret hart morale was already low before this situation, he was awalys gloomy, once he got to wcw he didn't have the same amout of dedication to wresteling and he started to despise the business. I could get way deeper and more into detail but Ill keep it at that

 

[HBK-aholic]

5. There was only ONE person in the whole fiasco who acted like a man and that WAS Bret Hart.

Hart did not act like a man in this situation. He wouldn't drop the belt for a start. But his reaction afterwards wasn't exactly that of a man, was it? Didn't he end up spitting at Vince and then punching him?

Shawn Michaels was a coward and denied being a part of it.

He denied being a part of it, yes. Why? Because McMahon told him to deny it. McMahon wanted the heat to be directed away from Shawn as much as possible. That's why he went down to ringside as it happened.

First off this is the dirtsheet view not the real life view, I've been reading these forums for years and now I finnaly decided to chime in. I do have personal intrest in the industry, I've worked in TNA, ROH, WWF, and I even go back as far as working in the AWA, I never wresteled myself only dealt with marketing and pr realated stuff but I have to say what most people see online they believe without any true unerstanding of the situation, I was infact in attendance on the day the montreal screwjob happened and I was Backstage, and I know the true feelings behind the scenes. All this stuff is derived by dirtsheets not fact. In fact the montreal screwjob was just a angle more then it was betrayl, bret hart morale was already low before this situation, he was awalys gloomy, once he got to wcw he didn't have the same amout of dedication to wresteling and he started to despise the business. I could get way deeper and more into detail but Ill keep it at that

I was there in too. In attendance as Shawns wife, and afterwards we went home and laughed at Bret Hart.

Sorry if I don't believe "I was backstage at the Montreal screwjob" because I've heard it so many times from so many people.

Right, the fact? Do you want to show me some? Because at the moment all you're doing is moaning about you being there and that makes you know more? I think that's what you're getting at anyway.

All men involved were in the wrong here in some way. Yes, Hart was in the wrong too. But, the problem with Harts later career wasn't the problem of the WWE. It was that WCW had no idea how to use a talent such as Hart. And you'd think it was easy, giving the following he had already. They were gave a ready-made star and yet still couldn't use him.

 

[klunderbunker]

How was Bret acting like a man in it? If the roles were reversed it would be like Shawn refusing to drop the belt anywhere in America. There was nothing wrong with what Vince originally wanted Bret to do. Bret was leaving. It was his responsibility to drop the title to whomever his boss, who was the main reason that Bret was able to go to WCW for the big deal as he was the person that put Bret on tv and made him the superstar he was, recommended. Shawn did the job that the person that signed his checks assigned to him. Is Shawn innocent in all this? No. Is Vince or Bret? No. It was a messy situation all the way around that would have been totally avoided had Bret just done as he was told.

 

[AFC1986]

4. Bret NEVER refused to drop the title, he refused one thing and one thing only, and that was to drop the title in a manner which could affect his drawing power, and thus affect the income he could receive as well as the income his new employer could receive.

Actually he did refuse to drop the title as he said on the Wrestling With Shadows DVD that the Bret Hart character would be blowing his brains out if he dropped the title in Montreal and for me him being stubborn is the catalyst for what happened at Survivor Series.

Yes, he had 30 days creative control that he had creative control, but that doesn't give him the right to refuse to drop the title as it makes him look unprofessional.

1. Bret Hart wasn't leaving the company, he was being forced out.

He wasn't being forced out as Vince wanted him to stay but said to Bret, if you want to go then go as WCW were offering him way more than Vince could. This whole mess could've been avoided if Bret let go off his pride about dropping the title in Montreal and they then would've the match finished the match in the way that was agreed backstage

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

For the people that have been saying things like "Bret refusing to job in Canada would be like HBK refusing to job in America" that is just wrong. They are two different things. Because Bret's entire gimmick at the time was based on being a Canadian hero and international hero, he wasnt just another wrestler in Canada he was like a hero to many of the Canadians. I believe he was actually voted most famous Albertan at one time(Im not entirely sure about that but I thought I heard that) and was actually named as one of the best Canadian athletes ever yes he was labeled as an athlete.

So you are asking a guy that has that going for him to job to his arch rival CLEANLY in a place where he is looked at so highly. That is devastating for a character and makes him look terrible and would kill any momentum he had going to WCW. There was no other wrestler that had the World title that had to drop it under those conditions when they left. When Hogan dropped it before he went to WCW he dropped it to a 600 pound man that needed a camera to explode in Hogan's eye to beat him, that did not kill Hogan's character what so ever. Not like it would have made a difference because Hogan was such a big draw but still nonetheless it didnt kill it. That was a totally different scenario than Brets. All Bret wanted was to drop it in a different way, he didnt even ask to beat Shawn then he said he would take a dq. I think for a guy that has served you loyally for that long the least you could do is do that for him.

But I will say I do disagree with Bret's actions after the match but wrestling to Bret is more than just a business. He grew up with it and its basically been his life so he's gonna take something like that harder than a wrestler that doesnt have any passion for wrestling but is there just for the money. But again either way I dont condone it but I guess I could see where his emotions got the best of him.

 

[DC24]

I was there in too. In attendance as Shawns wife, and afterwards we went home and laughed at Bret Hart.

Sorry if I don't believe "I was backstage at the Montreal screwjob" because I've heard it so many times from so many people.

Right, the fact? Do you want to show me some? Because at the moment all you're doing is moaning about you being there and that makes you know more? I think that's what you're getting at anyway.

All men involved were in the wrong here in some way. Yes, Hart was in the wrong too. But, the problem with Harts later career wasn't the problem of the WWE. It was that WCW had no idea how to use a talent such as Hart. And you'd think it was easy, giving the following he had already. They were gave a ready-made star and yet still couldn't use him.

If that was the case why did WCW kill them in rating for the last half the 90's; when WCW was hands better than the WWF. Shit Bret didn't have to show up to Survivor Series and came to Nitro with belt if he wanted but he didn't all he asked for was not loss the belt in Canada and he would lose the belt the next night on Raw. And yes Bret had all the right in the world to spit in Vince's face and give him a black eye. Don't you think Bret has model of every belt he has won so he could have brought that belt to WCW people need to get over the belt thing; shit Ric Flair brought the NWA belt to WWF the first he signed a contract.

 

[Davi323]

Let me get this straight, Slyfox696...Bret Hart acted like a man, for refusing to turn over company property when requested to by company management? That doesn't make him a man, it makes him a thief. The WWF Belt was not the property of Bret Hart, it was the property of the WWF.

1. Bret Hart wasn't leaving the company, he was being forced out.

Even if I accepted the notion that he was being forced out, so what? That gives him the right to refuse to his job? That gives him the right to dictate to the company when he returns THEIR property? Bullshit. If I drive a company car, it doesn't matter if they fire me or I quit. I still gotta return the car, when they tell me to. Their terms, not mine. Bret wanted to do it on his terms, not theirs.

2. Bret Hart's contract did not end November 17 (or whatever day it was) 1997, it ended in December of 1997.

Not sure where you obtained your copy of his contract, so that you know the exact dates, but, I don't seem to recall even mentioning when his contract supposedly ended, so, I am unsure what you were trying to prove.

3. Bret Hart's contract had a reasonable creative control clause in it, guaranteeing him the right, if the WWF were to ever opt out of the contract, to decide how his character was booked.

Reasonable creative control doesn't mean you get to call all your own shots, its just a way to guarantee your character doesn't get totally buried. Losing the belt to Shawn Michaels is hardly getting buried. Bret Hart simply let his ego get the best of him, and he refused to do his job, so the title got taken from him.

4. Bret NEVER refused to drop the title, he refused one thing and one thing only, and that was to drop the title in a manner which could affect his drawing power, and thus affect the income he could receive as well as the income his new employer could receive.

If I have a company car, and quit my job, and they ask for their car back, do I get to tell them exactly when I am going to drop it off, or is it my responsibility to bring them back their property whenever they ask for it after I turn in my notice? Further, the belt was just a TV prop. I think somewhere in Bret's warped little mind, he thought that it was actually real. Somehow the WWF title gave him importance. Here is a clue, Bret defenders...the WWF title isn't a real title. Its a TV prop. It isn't like a Super Bowl trophy or the Stanley Cup, wrestlers don't earn titles by winning a legitimate sporting competition. Its given to them by old guys in the back, and it can be taken away from them by the old guys in the back. Somehow Bret Hart forgot that. He believed the belt had actually made him far more important than he actually was.

5. There was only ONE person in the whole fiasco who acted like a man and that WAS Bret Hart. Shawn Michaels was a coward and denied being a part of it. Vince McMahon looked Hart right in the eye and lied. Triple H looked Bret's wife...his WIFE...in the eye and flat out lied to her. You want to talk about someone acting like a man? How about three *****es act like men, instead of being terrified of getting their ass beat by Bret Hart.

As the owner of the WWF, Vince McMahon can do any damn thing he wants with the belts. They are his property. Further, the actions of Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels and Earl Hebner were necessitated by Bret Hart's actions. If Bret had done what was requested of him, and drop the championship when told to, like the professional he claimed he was, none of it would have been necessary. Bret brought it completely on himself.

Its the people defending Bret that are the ignorant ones. Vince McMahon has a right to protect his property, and can do anything with the belt that he wants. Vince could have stripped Bret Hart the next night on RAW, and completely humiliated him by giving the title to a complete jobber, but instead, gave Hart a chance to do the right thing. Hart refused, to Vince took his property back. If you have something of mine, and I want it back, I expect it back when I want it, not when you decide to bring it.

And then what does Bret do? He assaults the owner of the company backstage. You call that acting like professional? To assault another man because you were pissed? It wasn't in a wrestling match, Bret Hart, coward that he is, had to resort to real violence out of anger of losing something that wasn't even his to lose. What a baby.

 

[klunderbunker]

For the people that have been saying things like "Bret refusing to job in Canada would be like HBK refusing to job in America" that is just wrong. They are two different things. Because Bret's entire gimmick at the time was based on being a Canadian hero and international hero, he wasnt just another wrestler in Canada he was like a hero to many of the Canadians. I believe he was actually voted most famous Albertan at one time(Im not entirely sure about that but I thought I heard that) and was actually named as one of the best Canadian athletes ever yes he was labeled as an athlete.

So you are asking a guy that has that going for him to job to his arch rival CLEANLY in a place where he is looked at so highly. That is devastating for a character and makes him look terrible and would kill any momentum he had going to WCW. There was no other wrestler that had the World title that had to drop it under those conditions when they left. When Hogan dropped it before he went to WCW he dropped it to a 600 pound man that needed a camera to explode in Hogan's eye to beat him, that did not kill Hogan's character what so ever. Not like it would have made a difference because Hogan was such a big draw but still nonetheless it didnt kill it. That was a totally different scenario than Brets. All Bret wanted was to drop it in a different way, he didnt even ask to beat Shawn then he said he would take a dq. I think for a guy that has served you loyally for that long the least you could do is do that for him.

But I will say I do disagree with Bret's actions after the match but wrestling to Bret is more than just a business. He grew up with it and its basically been his life so he's gonna take something like that harder than a wrestler that doesnt have any passion for wrestling but is there just for the money. But again either way I dont condone it but I guess I could see where his emotions got the best of him.

I have to disagree here. Yes Bret's character was that of a Canadian hero and he certainly was one. I think i remember hearing that he was voted most famous Albertan or something of that nature as well, but he was leaving. Bret's time, as well as his character with the WWF was over. There is a bit of a difference as Canada isn't the focal point of the WWF, but it would be similar perhaps to saying Shawn wouldn't lose the belt in Texas, which is a place that the company goes to, bbut not on a regular basis. Bret and Vince both messed up that night but I thinkt he blame rests more on Bret than anyone else. Vince may have commited the greater sin, but it wouldn't have happened had Bret not forced his hand.