What if the Montreal Screwjob never happened?

[relentless1]

I was just thinking about if Vince hadve let Hart walk out of survivor series and not screwed him? How would that have affected Harts arrival in WCW? How would it have affected WWF? Would the Mr McMahon character have even happened as this was the start of that character in many ( including vinces) eyes??

I think the WWF wouldve sank personally, without the screwjob, theres no mr mcmahon character for stone cold, bret hart doesnt leave bitter and probably does better work for WCW

 

[jnapoli85]

I have to disagree with you i think the wwf would have won the monday night wars no matter if it happened or not. Now if you want to change the topic to "what if stone cold never came to wwf" then that would be a different story. I think then wwf would have went under without a doubt.

 

[rokuma]

I think the biggest change would be the WWF would never have bought WCW...the Screwjob propelled the Attitude Era and wrestling became mainstream...without Montreal, WWF doesn't have the money to buy WCW. Instead, Bischoff buys WCW with Fusient (I believe) and the Monday Night Wars "reignite."

 

[jnapoli85]

wcw was only bought for 5 mil now thats a lot to the average person but for wwe or any company 5 mil is a drop in the bucket. If the wwe couldn't afford to buy it they would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[hjq0023]

I think WWE would have still won the Monday night wars. There still would have been a Mr McMahon character because that was being pushed for Austin to feud with. Owen might have not been dead because WWE would not have demoted him. Bret might have still been able to wrestle. So actually without the Montreal screwjob things would have still been better

 

[Harthan]

To be honest? I think more or less the same series of events would have gone down. When you look at how Austin's rise to the top actually came about, Austin was already well established in his anti hero rebel gimmick, and McMahon's attempting to stop him would have happened the same way. The Mr. McMahon character might have been brought into being more or less by the Screwjob, but it doesn't mean that it had to be the way things were going to go down. Vince would probably have still started the feud with Austin the same way and it would have worked just as well.

Considering WCW fucked up royally with Bret anyway, I don't think his going there sans Screwjob would have changed anything. Whether or not Owen would have still died is hard to say. There's no guarantee he might not have been pushed into the same gimmick regardless.

All in all, as historic as it was, I don't think the lack of it ever existing would have changed much, really, because when you look at it, neither company really changed as a result of it. The WWE continued on its establish path of pushing Austin, and WCW just squandered their golden opportunity with Bret. Perhaps the only difference is that, long term, Michaels has a little bit better of a reputation.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I still believe WCW would have imploded just as fast. Looking at WCW, at th time, all the pieces were in place to see the show collapse. Guaranteed contracts, overbudget programs, fustrated young guys not getting pushes, and the nightmare of inconsistent booking and storylines all signs point that WCW would have financially collapsed.

Austin was gaining popularity anyways and DX was here to stay and Bret Hart was already scheduled to leave the WWF. On the WWF's side the pieces were in place to make a comeback.

To be honest ... once Austin's road to WM started people kind of forgot about the screwjob. I remember the build up to WM ... no one was reminiscing about the Screw Job after the Royal Rumble it was all about Tyson/DX/Austin.

 

[RicoLen]

These kinds of things are always so hard to speculate on, but I would think that we're essentially taking away the Vince McMahon character from WWF. That means Austin doesn't get as over as he does, nor does The Rock. Bret might have come back to the WWF sooner rather than later. That's about it really. I suppose in the end TNA might be more popular because the IWC doesn't create quite so much hate for the WCW veterens, and so they'd stick around TNA longer and get more over and perhaps create better competition because WWF doesn't squash WCW & ECW quite as badly. Owen's still dead, Bret's still a stroke victim, HBK's more popular...Perhaps Stephanie & Shane don't become characters either, meaning the invasion angle wouldn't have taken place the same way either. Who knows?

 

[Krossbreed]

Lets say bret left wwe on good terms and never got injured for good by goldberg (instead it was a temporary) and owen got injured in the ring by a wrestler instead of falling to his death...once wwe defeated wcw, bret would be in the alliance feud but i would see him on wwe's end...burying wcw on tv saying it was the biggest mistake he made but he did it for new competition. I think Shaun would be heel on his return and he and bret would feud again and perhaps after finding religion hitman would be the man to end shauns career at wrestlemania. Then Undertaker would end hitmans...or in an epic super draw...hbk and bret are billed as "the final wrestling match for both win or loose both retire that night."

.
That would be awesome because screwjob or not bret and shaun are each others greatest rivals. I also think the hart foundation would be just as if not more popular than dx and they would be the two eternal rival entities in wwe's history to this day...hitman, anvil and owen would continue on with the hart foundation in memory of bulldog

"Dont test my imagination im already living on super earth with my flying dog nebula"

 

[ItsMeAudrey]

I've wondered this same thing myself. I'm not sure if the Mr. Mcmahon character would exist, or if it would've been implemented in a later storyline. The Montreal Screwjob sort of blurred the line between what's real and NOT real about wrestling as a business. That's what made the storyline and everyone involved so interesting, in turn it made the business interesting. At the time what Vince needed was interest. He would've attempted to do this in some other way, shape or form. If you remember correctly, the reason Vince was so concerned about Bret taking the title to WCW was because financially, WWF wasn't doing so well. Vince was in a desperate sort of situation, so we've been led to believe. It's still a mystery how much of the Montreal Screwjob was intended and how much it was not. The thing sort of spiraled out of control and got away from the very man who conceived the idea.

 

[Minister Christian]

Great thread relentless1, if Vince let Bret walk out of Survivor series still the Champion and not screwed him, i think Bret would have dropped the belt to Shaun the next night on Raw. But how would the Vince McMahon charactor come into effect? Well Vince would not be a heel just yet.I still think Stone Cold would always challenge Vince later on. So the Vince/ Austin thing would still have happened. HBK still would have dropped the belt to Steve at Wrestlemania i feel.

I think the WWF wouldve sank personally, without the screwjob, bret hart doesnt leave bitter and probably does better work for WCW

The WWF would have never of sank, WCW had major problems even before Survivior Series 97. Have you not watched the rise and fall of the WCW DVD? Clearly the WCW was a bad run organisation and was due to fail. Stupid storylines and most of the wrestlers wanted out. In my opinon one thing doesn`t make or break a wrestling company, a number of different factors do.

 

[FlairFan2003]

The screwjob really did little to WCW. Brett Hart was just part of the show in WCW, and other than some matches against Flair and Luger what did he contribute ? He never faced Hogan, didnt face Goldberg till the company was almost dead, never revived his feud vs Nash, etc. In the same vein, all the things that contributed to WCW downfall, fat guaranteed contracts, lack of direction, poor use of Sting, Goldberg and Flair, failing to utilize Jericho and Guerrero, too much influence on booking from Hogan, the screwjob created none of that, and like Austin's rise up WWE most of that started before the screwjob. As for the creation of the Mr Mcmahon character, Bischoff was revealed as the leader of the NWO in 96 before Starrcade, almost a full yr before Montreal. If Vince wanted to create an evil owner role it was in response to Bischoff's success, he didnt need Motreal to do that, he could have found another way. WWE was also pushing a more humorous, edgy product ala Attitude Era before Montreal, part of the reason Brett was unhappy, he didnt like the direction of the company, and a big reason why HBK, who was miles ahead of the very average Hart on the mic, was pushed as the champion.

 

[DeathClutch]

I was just thinking about if Vince hadve let Hart walk out of survivor series and not screwed him? How would that have affected Harts arrival in WCW? How would it have affected WWF? Would the Mr McMahon character have even happened as this was the start of that character in many ( including vinces) eyes??

I think the WWF wouldve sank personally, without the screwjob, theres no mr mcmahon character for stone cold, bret hart doesnt leave bitter and probably does better work for WCW

Bullshit WWE was better TV than WCW from WrestleMania 13 WWF tv was better than WCW, and I'm a huge WCW fan but RAW IMO was much better than Nitro. WWF needed something huge apart from smarks and wrestling fans no one knew about the screw job and most people probably thought it was all a storyline to get Bret out of WWF.

WRESTLEMANIA 14 and Mike Tyson was the combo that really got WWF over, Stone cold appealed to WWF fans, they loved his persona who wouldn't want to kick their boss in the balls and flip him off?

But Tyson/Mania 14 got a shit lot of media attention for Vince and WWF which subcequently got WWF over that hill and wala.

Bret and the Attitude Era would never went together, Bret was and still is too freaking old school, he probably would recieved the Owen Hart treatment or Bulldog treatment where his persona was changed completely from we're acustomed to.

 

[WunNightStan619]

i really dont think it would have made much of a difference to be honest. Stone cold wudda been stone cold, dx wouldve been dx and things would have gone as usual. I most definately dont think brets performance level was any reflection at all in wcw. Doesnt even make any sense.

bret: yes! time to put this sharpshooter in...AHH NO!!!..VINCE!!! *botch* lol

bret wasnt very successful in wcw because the wcw roster was STACKED at the time with maineventers n there was really no need for him, nor did they know how to use him

 

[Azane]

Put too much stock into this event.

If it had not happened, Bret would of shown up on Raw a couple weeks later, and we would of seen a title drop on free TV not on a PPV. Mr. Mcmahon would still of evolved around "screwing" Steve Austin, and Shawn Michaels would still be his cocky self in DX (His character wasn't exactly Lawful Good before the Screwjob)

 

[SinCityBlitz]

WCW would have still died because Ted Turner killed it with the merger with AOL/Time Warner. When Vince bought WCW, it had no network. That was the reason why Bischoff backed out of a deal to purchase WCW.

The Vince character would be totally different. But in the end I think things would have turned out the same. WCW was on a collision course with death. Stonecold was the true savior of the WWF. The better question(like someone else said)would be where would the WWF/E be without Steve Williams?

 

[ItsMeAudrey]

I had a few more thoughts about this. I do agree it wouldn't have affected the formation of the Attitude Era much, other than Vince McMahon's character. The Attitude Era was already in formation before the Screwjob. The Austin 3:16 promo, the formation of DX, etc. If I remember correctly I heard that Bret Hart wasn't happy with the direction the WWF was going, and how they were presenting themselves on television. He was more of a traditional type of wrestler who wanted to be a hero to the fans, not a bad influence. This was part of the reason he wanted to leave the WWF as well.

That being said, the tides were already changing before the Screwjob. Sure the Screwjob was interesting and is probably one of the biggest works in professional wrestling (since part of it was indeed "real"), but I don't think it would've affected the direction WWF eventually took all that much if it never happened. The Montreal Screwjob was simply a clash of egos, a lack of agreement on several different sides, and when it came down to it Vince called the shots, and he knew it. He would've found some other way to implement himself into the wrestling scene just as he might've wanted, and all would've eventually proceeded according to his plan. Maybe the invention of the "Mr McMahon" character wasn't as planned as we think. It probably created itself out of this mess, and knowing Vince he took it and ran with it.

It's already been said that Bret probably would've dropped the belt the next night on RAW to Shawn, but the rivalry between these two might still exist, since it was tense enough without the Screwjob taking place. Or who knows? He might've simply vacated it if he really didn't want to drop the belt to Shawn directly. He might've had enough of working with Shawn at that point, not to mention he clearly wanted to go out with a win in the WWF, not a loss of the title. I know Vince feared Bret would "take" the belt to WCW, but that just doesn't make sense to me. First of all I don't think Bret would've done that, secondly, Vince could replace the belt if that were to happen, making the one he carries worthless, even if WCW recognized it as a valid title. Was he afraid that would somehow decrease ratings for his company and give them to WCW? I guess... though I would think WCW was already on the path to failure as a company by then. They were doing better than WWF at one time, though like I said, the Attitude Era would've happened regardless of the Screwjob due to what had already happened. The Attitude Era in the WWF was more than likely what brought the ratings back up, not the Screwjob itself.

 

[theHeadliner]

First, the Montreal Screwjob was a work... The only one who didn't know about it was Bret the Hitman Hart. Vince, Shawn, HHH, Earl, some of the agents all knew what they were going to do, just no one told Bret.

Moving on, DX was on fire and Shawn was drawing a lot of heat as the top heel. Austin was getting crazy pops and the fans were taking over, and Vince was also involved in the Austin story line playing the annoying adversary.

Bret had already agreed to leave. He didn't like nor approve of the direction of the company and didn't like Shawn, especially since Shawn took all Bret's heel heat. If he left on a good note, he still would've been gone when Owen did his thing and passed away. But who knows if he would have done that specific angle.

Bret would have had a better attitude going into WCW and maybe try to be more positive and play more of a role into getting his ideas across. If he didn't take that kick from Goldberg and Owen didn't die he very well could have come back to the WWF. Who knows if Michaels would have wrestled Taker in the casket match, or if he did decide to work it different and not hurt his back. He wouldn't have taken the years off to heal and get re-born. He was bad into pills and booze. If he still had the asshole attitude and drug issues he could have ended up another wrestling tragedy.

 

[ahoyhoy]

There are a couple things:

1. Where would the belt have gone?
1a. Cornette famously suggested putting it on Shamrock. Shamrock couldn't cut a promo to save his life but was an incredible UFC talent in ring performer. He would have most probably held the title for a short reign (back then this meant 2 or 3 months, not 2 or 3 hours like today) before dropping it to Shawn. In 97 and 98, not everyone was a former World Champion and that was something to be said with prestige and would push someone to the main event card. I believe that Shamrock being more in line with that upper-mid card (including Rock, HHH, Kane, Mankind) could have helped legitimise the company as a 'sport', especially when compared to the hardcore antics of ECW and the unprofessional manner WCW was being run in.
1b. Bret beats Shawn and then hands the company the belt back on Raw. This would have been a pretty harsh blow. It would deflate any legitimacy left in what was the second company at the time, and it would take them a hell of a lot longer to prove they were the better product. (Of course much of the victory in the MNW came from WCW losing as much as WWE winning - maybe they would have changed the channel just as quickly, even with WWF's champion on WCW.)
1c. Bret puts over Shawn - belt follows the same path.

2. If McMahon didn't 'screw' Bret, then would they have the biggest heel of the era?
2a. Yes. Of course they would! More important than the screwjob, you had Austin's neckbreak in 97! Austin stunned McMahon at MSG TWO MONTHS BEFORE the Screwjob! Bret Hart and his stable openly berated the announce table because Vince was on it. Shawn and DX had thrown pot shots. It may not have happened as quickly, but Mr. McMahon was already in the process of happening when Bret got 'screwed'.
2b. There is no 'No' option. JR, Cornette, Patterson, Brisco and Vince were and are all great wrestling minds, Russo couldn't overwhelm them all with his stupidity.

3. Bret in WCW
3a. He'd still be treated like shit, come on. He was more talented than any of their top guys bar Sting and they were going to keep him down like they did Flair, like how they kept Goldberg on midcard matches even when he was their top draw and had the belt etc.
3b. We might have had a proper bloody match to end the Sting v. Hogan fued at Starrcade instead of the travesty that happened though.

Basically, I don't think much would have changed. The writing was on the wall for so many factors.

 

[AWESOME!]

I was just thinking about if Vince hadve let Hart walk out of survivor series and not screwed him? How would that have affected Harts arrival in WCW? How would it have affected WWF? Would the Mr McMahon character have even happened as this was the start of that character in many ( including vinces) eyes??

I think the WWF wouldve sank personally, without the screwjob, theres no mr mcmahon character for stone cold, bret hart doesnt leave bitter and probably does better work for WCW

I don't think it would have sank, WWE still has Shawn Michaels and Stone Cold none the less and HBK is better then Bret Hart could ever be. Canadian or no Canadian. Even though I am Canadian. no offense, just my opinion. Hbk is the greatest if all time. Actually thats a fact

 

[Cobear1986]

The only thing I think that would have changed is that Bret would have came back to WWF a whole lot quicker, because the only reason he stayed in WCW at that time is because he loved what he did as a wrestler but was bitter and angry with Vince. SO he stayed in WCW to at least continue to wrestle. But if the screw job never would have happened I believe he would have left WCW not to long after he arrived. I think the way WCW handle Bret was probaly one of the biggest mistakes in wrestling history. How do you take an already Big star in pro wrestling and not be able to make him your main top guy.

 

[New Hot Fed]

Ideally Vince would not have asked Bret to leave the WWF. He keeps him around. Bret and Shawn have their match in Montreal.

..leading to the DX vs Hart Foundation War we never had spilling into 1998. Austin vs Vince was successful but it was not something that excited me and it had a limited shelf life. Book a compelling Hart Foundation feud with many ups and down and turns for a whole year and it would have been something.

Another positive is that you don't have WCW trying to repeat Montreal in a controversial fashion so you have a clean finish for Sting vs Hogan.

Hence a better World.

 

[HoHo]

Last night, I was watching the Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels DVD that recently came out, and it had me thinking and I wanted to discuss some things with you guys.First of all, I thought the DVD was great, one of the best documentaries I've seen when it comes to wrestling, but when Jim Ross started talking about WM 12, that is when ideas started flying in my head.Now Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart was supposed to have a rematch at Wrestlemania 13.I had a problem with that, for one, the quality of the match Bret and Shawn had at WM 12 was 5 star, how could you had a better match? Ok, so Bret wins, Bret said he wanted Shawn to chase the belt, and make loads of money, while also truely passing the torch to HBK.Did anyone forget that if Bret vs HBK 2 happened, that would of possibly killed Austin's Match? Maybe Taker vs Stone Cold that would of been a match to see.Now the important point, Surivivor Series 97', it seems to me instead of Shawn, Bret and Vince getting in a room, nobody else, to discuss the finish everything would of been straight.Instead, it seems that Bret would say I want this finish, Shawn in a seperate meeting wanted a different finish.Ok, Bret wanted to win in Montreal, then the next night lose to Shawn in Ottawa?Imagine the ratings that night? Also second finish, DQ with a run in from Hunter, same thing would of happened.So here's the questions, what would of happened if Bret did retain, and what would of WWE looked like if he stayed in the WWE?

 

[jungledeano]

I think that WWE would have taken the same direction they did eventually. Though maybe at a later point. It seemed that going into the attitude era was the only way WWE would be able to compete with WCW, so I think that Austin would have eventually won the belt and ushered in that era at some point after WM14. I don't see WWE taking a different direction than they did, but maybe beginning at a later point. Also, I think Bret was essentially being released from his contract to go to WCW because McMahon couldn't afford to keep him on his contract at that point. Though the booking you stated, i.e, him retaining via dq then Shawn winning on the next night's Raw would have been more respectful to Bret. But it seemed Vince didn't trust Bret enough to not go to WCW and disgrace the belt.

 

[James]

Number 1: Vince didn't trust Bret.
Number 2: Vince also hated when the world title would change on live television(RAW).