Montreal Screwjob

[jacdnwarrior]

This is what happens, every time this topic comes up. Fans want to make up their own mythology about what happened and talk shit about why it happened, who's to blame for it and that it was the right thing to do. They pretend to be objective when they are anything but.

I am not objective on this point, when I saw this happen I felt it was a chicken shit move of WWE to do. I don't believe for a fucking minute that it was necessary. It was a bullshit move by Vince. The fact he continued to lie and blast Bret every chance he got, made him look like the kind of boss people just wish they could kill. It made me wish Bret beat his ass more than that giving him that one punch. When I learned that HBK was in on it, I felt that he couldn't have sunk any lower in terms of respect in my eyes. The shadow and weight of that event on HBK didn't hurt him in terms of business but I believe (can't say for sure) damaged his reputation among some fans and fellow wrestlers for some time.

At the end of the day WWE moved forward and grew, but I find it sad that Bret couldn't have been part of the revamping, he had a lot to offer.

 

[Irishock]

Wow it has been a long time. I'm split down the middle honestly, I'm glad it happened because letting Bret go is one of the things that has kept WWE in business,

That's complete utter bullshit. Hart started the attitude era with Austin. He had a part in creating that drawing machine. And once Austin was born, whichever side that had him was going to win the war. If Bret didn't leave the WWF he would've put over Austin, Rock, etc. and the WWF would go on to beat WCW anyway.

 

[Irishock]

"Annuls of history" Jesus Christ...

Anyway, Bret and Michaels were not scheduled at ANY point to clash at Mania 14.

Correct. It would've been a Bret vs Austin rematch and Bret would put him over without bitching like HBK did.

 

[Stinger]

However, I am more inclined nowadays to believe that Montreal was the greatest work in professional wrestling history. Jerry Lawler believes this;

Also, the Wrestling with Shadows crew happened to be making their subsequent film there at the time. The film-makers didn't have to be aware of what was going to happen, they just had to be there as it unfolded. Exactly what happened and has added to the credibility of the legitimacy of the screwjob. Could have easily been planned to have the crew there at that specific period of time when the screwjob would unfold. I know this one has been 'debunked' again and again, but everything's a possibility in the air of uncertanty.

Perhaps only Vince knows for sure what the deal is, and as far as I'm concerned, it's all possible until the day we can get inside Vince's mind.

When has Jerry Lawler said that he thought that the Montreal Screwjob was a work?

It was a work, with Bret, the Hart Foundation, and the majority of the locker room kept out of the loop. If you think about it, someone duped the Hart Foundation to go look for HHH and Chyna when they were at Gorilla position the whole time, Shawn's music hit INSTANTLY, Earl played his part, even though he found out a few hours prior, and there's no way you can tell me that the majority of Vince's agents didn't know.

Michaels's music playing instantly could be attributed to McMahon, or one of his employees, simply going up to the music man and casually saying "hey, we changed our mind. Shawn's gonna win, so play his music after the match." I'm sure some of Vince's agents knew about it, and I'm sure they were told to act as if it was part of the story.

I've read online about the discrepancies in the story that stand out (such as who told Earl Hebner, who came up with the Sharpshooter spot, and was Pat Patterson involved). Personally, I think the discrepancies are due to either a.) excellent planning on the part of those involved to insure that no one knows the real truth, or b.) people involved exaggerating stories or making them up (such as Vince Russo saying the Sharpshooter spot was his idea).

Personally, I want the Montreal Screwjob to have been legitimate. It'd sort of ruin it for me if it ever turned out that it was a work. For what it's worth, Bret Hart did turn down a refereeing gig at WrestleMania 18 because he was still mad about the Screwjob. It seems like if it was a work, he would have accepted the gig and it would have been part of the storyline, like the plan allegedly was.

I just feel like if it was a work, that they it wouldn't have taken 13 years for everyone to reconcile. Plus, don't you think that Eric Bischoff would have found that out somehow and have said something about it by now?

 

[theHeadliner]

When I said it was a work, I meant in the sense that Vince, Shawn, HHH, and a handful of Vince's close agents and helpers "worked it out" technically, and Bret Hart, his crew, and the locker were kept out of the work, not told, which goes against the pro wrestling code. If Bret actually knew or was in on it, which I highly doubt, then his life story and his book after the Screwjob was basically a fraud or a big lie to sell the story. A lot of events happened as a result of the Screwjob that for me makes it highly unlikely Bret was in on it.

 

[Stinger]

When I said it was a work, I meant in the sense that Vince, Shawn, HHH, and a handful of Vince's close agents and helpers "worked it out" technically, and Bret Hart, his crew, and the locker were kept out of the work, not told, which goes against the pro wrestling code. If Bret actually knew or was in on it, which I highly believe, then his life story and his book after the Screwjob was basically a fraud or a big lie to sell the story. A lot of events happened as a result of the Screwjob that for me makes it highly unlikely Bret was in on it.

Do you mean "which I highly doubt?"

I think some people were "in on it" whether they knew it or not. Technically speaking, the sound guy was in on it when he played Shawn's music. Whether he knew that Bret had just been legitimately screwed over or not is another matter.

Like I've said, I think this was not a work and that it was legitimate. But it would not surprise me if Bret sold it as if it was legit for the sake of selling his life story. Bret seems like the sort of guy who isn't able to, or simply chooses not to, separate fantasy from reality at times with the way he tells stories and has memorabilia of his career on display in his home.

For example, the way he talks about his match with Davey Boy Smith at SummerSlam 1992 really bothered me. He talked about the match as if it was a legitimate fight (I'm paraphrasing here, but he said something like "I hit the British Bulldog with a pile driver, but he kicked out at two. I put him in the sharpshooter and he broke the hold! Something that had never been done before!"). I would have just preferred that he said something to the extent of "for a match of this magnitude, we really wanted to ensure that we had the fans emotionally invested, so Davey barely kicked out when I hit him with a pile driver and we even had him break out of the Sharpshooter, which up until that point and never happened before, so that was perceived as a big deal by the fans."

 

[Thebodywabble1995]

I'm probably going to get blasted for this but am i the only one that thinks that brett hart wasent that good? but the montreal screw job was kind of like the owen hart death in the fact that it made both men legends in thee wwe?

 

[HatchetMan84]

I have been back and forth on the issue of if the screwjob was a work or not. I say all of these things below as a huge Bret fan and somebody who respects him.

Deep down I believe it was legit. Sometimes I have moments where I try and listen to other fans' theories and determine if it would even be plausible.

It might be a stupid reason, but to me, the biggest reason that I say it was legit was because Bret never wrestled for the WWF ever again after it happened. I know he had that bore-fest with Vince in 2010, but i'm saying when he was still in his wrestling prime, he never returned to WWF to cash in on the angle. Imagine how big a match would have been between Bret and Shawn if Bret came back to the WWF and they re-started the angle. Of course, this says that Shawn never got hurt in 1998.

Reasons why it could be a "work" to me?

1.) Bret is is own biggest fan. He could have used it to sell his life story, merchandies, book, as others have said. There is a possibility that his stroke ruined the chances of a WWF comeback where he likely would have continued with the "Screwed" Angle


2.) Bret "beats up" Vince. Several wrestlers have talked of Vince McMahon's legitimate toughness, the fact he used to work out with Hulk Hogan, he was a legit street-fighter in his youth, etc. etc. Vince could have probably handed Bret his ass on any given day when he was younger, but on "this" day, he even had others in his office with him, former wrestlers. It is unlikely Bret even in a 'rage' plowed through Vince's guys and then went after Vince himself.

Those might seem like silly reasons but over the years those two are some of the theories i have heard and thought about that make the most sense to me.

My last Question though: Will there ever be an event in wrestling again that has the magnitude of "the screwjob"? Will it never happen again because kayfabe is so broken now??

 

[thebarber]

Montreal was clearly a SHOOT, 16 years on this is clear fact and no debate can be entered into. That it happened was sad, but the fact it did saved WWE from possible bankruptcy. Vince wanted to get rid of Hart, thus why he helped broker Harts deal with WCW. Vince wanted to go in a new, edgier direction and knew Bret had massive issues with this. Anybody who says Vince could not afford to honour Brets contract is flat out wrong, Vince was putting together the Mike Tyson deal at the same time, and that $3million he needed to pay Tyson's camp was more a priority for Vince then keeping Bret, especially when he had a roster full of talent like HBK, Taker, Foley, the rising Austin and Rock and HHH, sShamrock etc.

 

[Ubermensch]

I believe Hart did say on that documentary he did not like the direction the WWE was taking with the Attitude era.

However, he had no problem with the Canada v. America angle. To me that would be a tip-off for where the company was going. Even before what you could say was the Attitude era, 1997 WWE was drastically different from 1996.

 

[theHeadliner]

What I was saying is that it was a work in the sense that Vince, HHH, Shawn, Vince's close agents, and some important technical officials "worked" but that Bret Hart and his crew wasn't in on it. It's hard to believe that Bret would turn his post-WWF life into a fraudulent story by the material in his books, DVDs, etc. Plus when Owen died there was no chance he was going back anyways.

 

[Zycho32]

Curious question here; Bret Hart did have upwards of a month- at least three, maybe four Monday Night Raws in which to surrender the title belt before leaving for WCW.

My only question is this; at the time, did the Title Belts ever change hands during Raw?

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Curious question here; Bret Hart did have upwards of a month- at least three, maybe four Monday Night Raws in which to surrender the title belt before leaving for WCW.

My only question is this; at the time, did the Title Belts ever change hands during Raw?

Absolutely.

It had happened once prior (with Sid winning the belt on RAW from Bret Hart about 9 months earlier), then it happened 3 more times in the next 14 months (Austin beating Kane, Mankind beating the Rock, and the Rock beating Mankind). They'd done a few house show title changes in the years prior as well (most recent being Diesel over Backlund), so there was always that option as well (Hart drops to a placeholder like Shamrock in Detroit a couple days before, fights HBK in Montreal, then again on RAW where he puts HBK over so you go into IYH with HBK winning the title).

The prevailing thought why they didn't do this was because they didn't want Bischoff announcing that he'd signed the WWF champion on Nitro, which was why Survivor Series was where the title change had to happen, and of course, that they didn't want a title change happening on an untelevised house show.

 

[Wald]

The prevailing thought why they didn't do this was because they didn't want Bischoff announcing that he'd signed the WWF champion on Nitro, which was why Survivor Series was where the title change had to happen, and of course, that they didn't want a title change happening on an untelevised house show.

That's one of the many ways Vince's version falls down. Due to the lawsuit WWF had taken against Turner Broadcasting due to the Madusa stunt Bischoff has said many times that there wasn't a hope they'd be allowed talk about Bret bringing the belt over, let alone have him show up.

I honestly don't understand how people think it was a work. Bret's contract came up in 2000 and reports were that Vince wanted to sign him back and had put feelers out in 1999, I think even in the Hitman's book he says that Vince made a comment to him at Owen's funeral along those lines. Obviously the Goldberg thing hended his in-ring career but do you really think it would have taken Bret and Vince long to reach a deal after he left WCW in 2000 if it had been a work? Even if he couldn't wrestle he could still come back for an angle to beat down Vince and it would have been huge money in 2000.

It was a shoot, one I think Vince regretted a lot and was something I think he felt he had to make right. Hence why they went all out to get Bret back in the WWE for years

 

[lil steroid meat]

Meh.

I don't really consider it a tragedy because it birthed the Mr. McMahon character and all the great things that came with it. If it didn't happen and McMahon succumbed to Bret's demands (in addition to the inconveniences that his contract put the WWF in at the time, he also was not a fan of the edgier direction the product was going in), the WWF would likely be out of business.

"Screwing Bret was best for business" Aw man, it might be time for that every 3-5 years Montreal Screwjob remake angle since HHH has this character right now. I vote Punk to get "screwed" since he's leaving anyways and it would solidify someone as a heel.

 

[lil steroid meat]

What I was saying is that it was a work in the sense that Vince, HHH, Shawn, Vince's close agents, and some important technical officials "worked" but that Bret Hart and his crew wasn't in on it. It's hard to believe that Bret would turn his post-WWF life into a fraudulent story by the material in his books, DVDs, etc. Plus when Owen died there was no chance he was going back anyways.

That's not a work lol. Everyone involved would have to know about it lol. What you just said actually happened lol.

 

[theHeadliner]

That's not a work lol. Everyone involved would have to know about it lol. What you just said actually happened lol.

It's a work for all parties besides Bret and the Hart Foundation. Vince and his agents that he told prior, Shawn, HHH, Chyna, they all had to play a part after the execution of the Screwing. Even planning the screwing was worked out in advance.

 

[Hitman80]

There always seems to be this misconception that Survivor Series was Bret's last night of contract, this was not the case so there was no chance of him turning up on a Nitro the next night. Bret Hart is not the kind of guy to take a rival companies belt to the other company anyway (unlike the loved and overrated Ric Flair). He had too much respect for the company and wrestlers in that company to do so. Flair gave excuses but if he respected the wrestlers he worked with he would not have taken the belt on WWF TV but I digress.

I agree with Bret's decision to refuse to drop the belt to Shawn at that time, he had been disrespected as champion by being told by Shawn that he would not lose to him.

Thankfully closure happened. A lot of people saw Bret as being bitter and whining about it but few see it from his point of view. He had this dream end of his career taken from him and was lied to for months previous to it happening. Owen died, as did many around him at that time. He had his career ended by Greenberg kicking him in the head with a move that shouldn't ever really go wrong. He struggled after that with concussion for years and then to add to it all he had a stroke. All this within a few years, I would be pretty angry too.

The WWF could have afforded the contract anyway, they threw $3 million dollars at Tyson for a few days work just a few weeks later.

 

[theHeadliner]

There always seems to be this misconception that Survivor Series was Bret's last night of contract, this was not the case so there was no chance of him turning up on a Nitro the next night. Bret Hart is not the kind of guy to take a rival companies belt to the other company anyway (unlike the loved and overrated Ric Flair). He had too much respect for the company and wrestlers in that company to do so. Flair gave excuses but if he respected the wrestlers he worked with he would not have taken the belt on WWF TV but I digress.

I agree with Bret's decision to refuse to drop the belt to Shawn at that time, he had been disrespected as champion by being told by Shawn that he would not lose to him.

Thankfully closure happened. A lot of people saw Bret as being bitter and whining about it but few see it from his point of view. He had this dream end of his career taken from him and was lied to for months previous to it happening. Owen died, as did many around him at that time. He had his career ended by Greenberg kicking him in the head with a move that shouldn't ever really go wrong. He struggled after that with concussion for years and then to add to it all he had a stroke. All this within a few years, I would be pretty angry too.

The WWF could have afforded the contract anyway, they threw $3 million dollars at Tyson for a few days work just a few weeks later.

I agree that Bret wouldn't have shown up on Nitro... The worry was that Eric Bischoff was gonna go on Live TV an hour before RAW started and announce that WCW had just signed the CURRENT WWF CHAMPION. Everyone knew who that was, and if Bret retained the title at Survivor Series, went into RAW as champ, people would wonder why the guy at the top of WWF, the champ and biggest name in the company over the past few years, would agree to leave for WCW while working in WWF as champion. It would look bad for the WWF and demean the WWF.

 

[theHeadliner]

Also, Bret's contract date hadn't come up yet for WWF, but he had already made more than enough dates to satisfy his contract. Bret also chose to leave. In October 1997 at Long Island, NY Vince told Bret that money was no longer a problem, and that he could pay him in full and meet his contract. Bret told Vince that he still wanted to hear from Bischoff as his deadline to put in the notice was 10/31/97 but that he'd most likely stay if money was no longer an issue. Bret also wanted to hear Vince out about his plans.

That morning Vince called Bret and Bret asked him what his plans would be for him. Vince went on to tell Bret that he'd lose to Shawn at Survivor Series, the In Your House following Survivor Series, Royal Rumble in a ladder match, and then finally Bret would challenge Shawn on RAW saying he'd never wrestle again if he lost. Vince said Bret would finally beat Shawn for the title in that match. Bret chose to leave after hearing those plans, a combination of having to lose to Shawn so many times... Basically being 2nd fiddle, not being the champion, and losing to a guy multiple times that disrespected him. He also didn't like the direction of the company. So he chose to leave and it had nothing to do with Vince breaching Bret's contract and not paying him in full. This is all from Bret's book.

 

[Kool Aid Man]

Certainly this could have been handled better. Every wrestler has an ego, and a career to protect at Bret Hart's stage, and rightfully so. Losing to Shawn as you stated so many times was absurd. Best case scenario would have been a no contest due to interference. You could have set up a 4v4 match with DX vs Hart Foundation. If I remember right the New Age Outlaws had started showing up some with DX at this time. This would have gotten good Heat and been popular. Going into the Royal Rumble, Hart loses cleanly to Michaels and leaves. This establishes DX as the dominant heel stable and cleanly rids you of the Hart Foundation that the storylines were largely focused on until then.

I think another issue for Bret had to have been seeing the Bulldog losing cleanly to Shawn in England as well.

 

[WWFan79]

I agree that Bret wouldn't have shown up on Nitro... The worry was that Eric Bischoff was gonna go on Live TV an hour before RAW started and announce that WCW had just signed the CURRENT WWF CHAMPION. Everyone knew who that was, and if Bret retained the title at Survivor Series, went into RAW as champ, people would wonder why the guy at the top of WWF, the champ and biggest name in the company over the past few years, would agree to leave for WCW while working in WWF as champion. It would look bad for the WWF and demean the WWF.

That was WWF's biggest worry. Not how Bret would treat it.. he would never demean a belt (something that's sorely missing today.. how much a belt actually means and to wear it with pride. That in itself would make wrestling far more enjoyable but that very sincerity), but it was the way Bischoff would treat it.

Bischoff just had this obsessive thing about him to trash WWF and take out Vince. A Shakespearean irony in that he brought himself and his own 'Empire' down in the effort to take on Vince.

Bret insisted he wouldn't lose the belt in Canada. As a Canadian, that doesn't make sense to me either. But he also said he didn't want to drop it to Shawn. The smart move by WWF would have been for him to drop it to anyone else but Shawn. But Vince had a 'ball and cock' hard on contract with Shawn (as Hawk used to call their relationship) that just made the whole situation worse than it should have been.

And it was definitely a Shoot seeing that Bret genuinely didn't know about it.

 

[Hitman80]

It wasn't about Canada, it was about HBK showing him disrespect as champion and refusing to put him over when Bret had said he had no problem doing so for Shawn.
Bret Hart was standing for the traditions of wrestling but anyway they have all got over it and the Rivalry DVD reveals a lot about what happened.

Let's all move on to...

 

[justtxyank]

It's a work for all parties besides Bret and the Hart Foundation. Vince and his agents that he told prior, Shawn, HHH, Chyna, they all had to play a part after the execution of the Screwing. Even planning the screwing was worked out in advance.

For it to be a work it literally has to have every participating party in on it, otherwise it is a shoot.

A work means it is a scripted moment that the wrestlers are in on to create an illusion for the fans. (almost everything that ever happens in wrestling is a work.)

A shoot is when there is no script involved in what is happening or at least 1 party in a match or promo is the victim of something that he was not told about/was not agreed to.

Brian Knobbs beating up Scott Hall in the ring was a shoot, even though Knobbs had already planned it. He wasn't working Hall, he was shooting on him.

 

[MrJay]

It was a shoot. I just don't see someone still being legitimately upset about it nearly 20 years later if they were working somebody.