10 years on Montreal Screwjob

[The Dungeon]

I believe Bret screwed Bret. He is a grown man who was too stubborn to drop the belt in his home country because of his stupid pride. All of us has to swallow our pride at some time. I realize he was devoted to the company, but HBK was the new star. I realize HBK was a prick but you needed somebody who could carry the company for more years in the future. HBK still wrestles today. He is also still very talented and exciting to watch. As I think HHH said, "Shawn could have a match with a broom and make the broom look good." Bret doesn't wrestle. (I know Goldberg injured him, but do any of us think he would still be wrestling today?)

Also, does anybody think we should have a poll? Bret Screwed Bret, Vince Screwed Bret, Who Cares, and We Need To Move On.

Yup....because Shawn was the new star carrying the WWF from 1998-2002....WAIT A SECOND?? It was AUSTIN!! And that other guy....what's his name....big movie star now....umm...yeah...ANOTHER guy Shawn was a prick too....THE ROCK!!!

It wasn't about pride....it was about RESPECT! Respect Bret wasn't getting!!!!

And yes...SHawn could have a good match with a broom....but Bret had his fair sahre of brooms in 1995! Bret was fourtanate enough to have good opponents for a long period of time, but carrying a blown up and out of it, Davey Boy Smith to a ***** match is no small feat!!!!

And newsflash....Bret never planned on wrestling until he was 51 years old (which he'll be in July)!! But who are you to say that he wouldn't! You have to keep in mind, Shawn is 8 years younger than Bret! Shawn's 42 going on 43....that's how old Bret was when his career abruptly ended! And while Shawn is still great...he's banged up...and not working a full schedule!

 

[HBK-aholic]

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Just for you NorCal, McMahon clearly saying he owes Bret Hart nothing. He says more in the other part of you want to look at that too.

And please, this wasn't about Shawn Michaels. I've admitted plenty of times, as have others, than Shawn was, to say the least, an idiot in his younger days. But when it comes to Montreal all he did was do what Vince asked him. He did what his boss asked. Wrong? I don't think so. Shawn was the person that did it yes, but he wasn't the person that decided to do it.

Oh, and in regards to Hart not being used as a huge star in WCW, tell me how McMahon was to know this. If he cleanly beat the next WWE champion then went to WCW to become champion, it implied WWE is the weaker company, as the champion is supposed to be the best.

Moving on, Vince knew Hart better than any of us do. So to say there's no chance he'd have taken the belt is stupid if McMahon thought there was. Or even if it was just a tiny doubt in his mind, why should he take that risk? Especially to someone who refused to do as he was asked.

Oh and since when are you unable to lose in your hometown?! I'm sorry but tell me when this became a rule of wrestling? This is one of the things that gets to me that most. So what, he was in Canada. Whoopdy do. Now get over it and do your job.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

and WHEN was that video taken??? HHHmmmm when they were still trying to save face over the whole situation???

And yes, back in thattime, it was a huge deal for canadiens to loose in canada. Thats a very real thing. Its different than others in their hometowns. Not something that is really correct, but something that is true, somewhat of a tradition.

Abd im talking about videos, and books that have come out RECENTLY. Mcmahon, and HBK, have neen entirely apologetic over the whole thing. The only person who isnt is Triple H lmao......the postion of supporters of this is so absurdly stubborn....it couldve went down ANY other way...even still have HBK win, by count out, or DQ....or even have bret loose the next night to Shawn on RAW...ANY other way, and this entire thing gets avoided...

 

[HBK-aholic]

At the end of the day, Hart refused to drop the belt when he was leaving, after being asked to by McMahon. No one should do that, Shawn and Triple H included. If McMahon wanted him to CLEANLY lose, at a PPV, why is McMahon wrong to want that? To want his new champion to win the belt off of the old one.
It wasn't about HBK simply winning the match, so your DQ or count out argument is invalid, it was about Shawn winning the championship, something he couldn't do my those means.
And finally, the Canada argument is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Seriously, no way in hell should that even be a part of this. "Well..er..I'm from America so that means I can't lose in any of these states..*whines some more*". What the hell is that about? The Canadian needed to get his head out of his arse and realise this was the company that made him. Just because they're from Canada doesn't mean they deserved special treatment.

 

[The Dungeon]

HA! That video was in 2002 or '03!!!....and that was just Vince trying to be high and mighty!!!! When has Vince ever been apologetic about ANYTHING on TV! WWE Confidential is hardly a vehicle for this whole mess!

Either he's lying to the viewing audience or he's lying to Bret...because he's been apologetic for the whole thing!!!

And please, this wasn't about Shawn Michaels. I've admitted plenty of times, as have others, than Shawn was, to say the least, an idiot in his younger days. But when it comes to Montreal all he did was do what Vince asked him. He did what his boss asked. Wrong? I don't think so. Shawn was the person that did it yes, but he wasn't the person that decided to do it.

Well Shawn refused to do other things...why not this???

Yeah...that's ALL Shawn did...lets all take Shawn's word for it....because he's a good Christian boy now who would never do anything now!!!! My opinion is him and HUnter were both in Vince's ear in this whole scenario!!! I'm not denying that Shawn did what Vince told him to do....but how come he DIDN'T throw a hissy fit this time!!!! He did it...because he wanted Bret gone, and knew without Bret around....he had nobody breathing down his neck! But of course, SHawn was to pre-occupied with his heat with Bret...he forgot about ol' Mr. Austin!

Oh, and in regards to Hart not being used as a huge star in WCW, tell me how McMahon was to know this. If he cleanly beat the next WWE champion then went to WCW to become champion, it implied WWE is the weaker company, as the champion is supposed to be the best.

Bret said he didn't have to beat Shawn cleanly...as a matter of fact..he said eh didn't have to actualy pin or submit Shawn at ALL! And btw, Vince DID know...he said his biggest fear always was...and he said this to Bret during there 1996 contract dispute...that "They'd never know how to use you".

Moving on, Vince knew Hart better than any of us do. So to say there's no chance he'd have taken the belt is stupid if McMahon thought there was. Or even if it was just a tiny doubt in his mind, why should he take that risk? Especially to someone who refused to do as he was asked.

He only refused to do it on the night....not entirely!!

Man I feel like I'm repeating myself here...probably because I AM!

At first yes...Bret refused to drop it to Shawn period!

But, a couple days later he said fine....as long as it's not at Survivor Series!

Because, hey, we all know Shawn never refused to do anything right??? Exactly!!!

Oh and since when are you unable to lose in your hometown?! I'm sorry but tell me when this became a rule of wrestling? This is one of the things that gets to me that most. So what, he was in Canada. Whoopdy do. Now get over it and do your job.

Yeah...I wonder what Shawn would've said if Vince said..."I Want you to lose at the Alamodome at the Rumble!!"

It wasn't about LOSING...it was about getting buried...Bret felt he was getting buried....it's not like Bret never lost in Canada.....as a matter of fact.....a lot of the house shows...including one in Toronto in Jan.1997...Bret lost...TO SHAWN...I might add...in a Triple Threat Match....now this was before the big Canada/USA angle...but from what reports of that show say....Shawn was booed out of the building....and Bret was cheered like a Canadian hero!!! And he LOST!

 

[Mighty NorCal]

See you obviously dont understand. Honestly, im not even saying its right, but the canada thing was a unwritten rule for a very long time, and isnt very prevalent now. But back then, it was just something that WAS NOT done. And like I said the title change couldve came the next night on RAW, just as easily....

 

[The Dungeon]

And finally, the Canada argument is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Seriously, no way in hell should that even be a part of this. "Well..er..I'm from America so that means I can't lose in any of these states..*whines some more*". What the hell is that about? The Canadian needed to get his head out of his arse and realise this was the company that made him. Just because they're from Canada doesn't mean they deserved special treatment

Dude....do you READ ANYTHING WE SAY???? IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT LOSING IN CANADA....IT WAS THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING IT!!!!!!! BRET FELT HE WAS GETTING BURIED!!!!!!!!!

 

[HBK-aholic]

Dude....do you READ ANYTHING WE SAY???? IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT LOSING IN CANADA....IT WAS THE CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING IT!!!!!!! BRET FELT HE WAS GETTING BURIED!!!!!!!!!

First of all, the best way to get your point across isn't to simply put it in capitals. If it's worth it, people will take note. This however, isn't. So there's 2 of you, debatong against me, one saying it was about losing in Canada, the other saying it isn't? Gosh make your mind up.

For the last time. Bret had a job to do. It's not to him to decide when he does it and when he doesn't. Vince wanted Shawn to beat him at Survivor Series to begin his championship reign. It's Vince's company, he decides what goes. When Bret Hart is making the multi millions McMahon is running just as successful company, he can have a say in the matter. Whilst he's just an employee, the boss has the say. Have you ever had a job before? I'm sure you'll know what I mean then.

And NorCal, if it was an 'unwritten rule' not to lose in Canada, it's still the biggest load of shit I've ever heard, and I'm glad Vince went against it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

No I havent ever had a job before, so I dont know. And it was an unwritten rule. And i find it magical how the HBK marks just gloss over how bullshit this whole thing was. let this thing be reversed, and people are outcrying in the streets lol. HBK fans are some of the most biased debaters ever.

Regardless. Its quite easy. Let Bret win, in canada, let him leave the company on good terms. Have Shawn, go over, the next night on RAW, in a rematch, convincingly if you want to, Superkick, right in the face 1-2-3. HBK (and in your argument WWE) looks dominant, he gets the belt, Bret doesnt hate Vince and the WWE forever, and this whole thing is solved. But no, anything involving HBK is automatically OK, and right, and fuck logic LOL

 

[HBK-aholic]

No I havent ever had a job before, so I dont know. And it was an unwritten rule. And i find it magical how the HBK marks just gloss over how bullshit this whole thing was. let this thing be reversed, and people are outcrying in the streets lol. HBK fans are some of the most biased debaters ever.

I didn't mean you with the job stuff actually. And as I said, if it was an unwritten rule, I'm glad it got broke, seeings as it's completely unfair. And finally, when is everyone going to realise HBK wasn't the main part in this? I aren't even debating this for HBK, and if it was the other way around I'd have lost a lot of respect for HBK for going to WCW and refusing to drop the belt on the way.

Regardless. Its quite easy. Let Bret win, in canada, let him leave the company on good terms. Have Shawn, go over, the next night on RAW, in a rematch, convincingly if you want to, Superkick, right in the face 1-2-3. HBK (and in your argument WWE) looks dominant, he gets the belt, Bret doesnt hate Vince and the WWE forever, and this whole thing is solved. But no, anything involving HBK is automatically OK, and right, and fuck logic LOL

How many more times do I have to say this isn't about Shawn? Seriously I don't know when you're going to understand it. And Bret should have done what he was asked b Vince! It doesn't get much simpler. No one should not drop the belt if Vince asks (Yes that does involve HBK).

 

[Shocky]

See, but you still refust to acknowledge that Bret Hart had reasonable creative control, written into his contract by Vince McMahon. If Bret thought that jobbing to a guy, (who refused to job to him at WM 13 and said he wouldn't job for him anymore), was not within reasonable control, then guess what, he didn't have to. It all goes back to writing control into wrestlers contracts. This was on McMahon, plain and simple.

Again, it wasn't an issue of dropping the belt, Hart listed off numerous other guys he would put over on the way out the door. (Why not drop the title to Austin, in Montreal to culminate there year long feud, that would have been perfect, and have Austin vs. Shamrock at Mania with Tyson as the Enforcer). It simply was a matter of principle, Shawn Disrespected Bret, for many years prior, and Hart was going to give Michaels the honor he felt someone else deserved. Pretty simple really.

 

[omega_420_69]

Okay darn near everybody misconcieves the montreal screwjob. Now like most everybody i agree that bret hart made the right decision finacially moving to WCW, who can blame him. But you must also be able to see things from vince's side of the fence. here he is in the middle of the monday night wars and hes losing, and the one man who's leading his company is Bret Hart. And now your one guy who your supposed to be able to depend on is selling out, WTF! isnt that a bit of a screwjob in of itself on bret's part. now picture this, if vince hadnt done the screwjob would we have the infamous phrase "Don't Cross The Boss." this is where the phrase and the character Mr. McMahon came from. this is where we saw vince has balls and we eventually get the austin-mcmahon fued. Looks like vince killed 2 birds with stone. he got bret back and he created a character bigger than any WWE superstar could dream of in Mr.McMahon. Sounds like good business to me. Now as for HBK. Why him i cant explain. Why not Austin, undertaker, anybody else, only vince knows but anybody who says HBK was in on it is full of crap. Go watch the match and you see HBK's face. I kno they act but you can tell the difference and his expression was the realist surprise that you cant fake. He didnt know what was up but can you say no to that...especially to vince. bret had what was coming to him, i do think vince did things in the wrong way but i also thank him b/c that event sparked a fire thats has lifted sports entertainment into an era of chaos and controversy and let's face it people eric bischoff is right about one thing...controversy creates cash

 

[abrighterabyss]

Okay darn near everybody misconcieves the montreal screwjob. Now like most everybody i agree that bret hart made the right decision finacially moving to WCW, who can blame him. But you must also be able to see things from vince's side of the fence. here he is in the middle of the monday night wars and hes losing, and the one man who's leading his company is Bret Hart. And now your one guy who your supposed to be able to depend on is selling out, WTF! isnt that a bit of a screwjob in of itself on bret's part. now picture this, if vince hadnt done the screwjob would we have the infamous phrase "Don't Cross The Boss." this is where the phrase and the character Mr. McMahon came from. this is where we saw vince has balls and we eventually get the austin-mcmahon fued. Looks like vince killed 2 birds with stone. he got bret back and he created a character bigger than any WWE superstar could dream of in Mr.McMahon. Sounds like good business to me. Now as for HBK. Why him i cant explain. Why not Austin, undertaker, anybody else, only vince knows but anybody who says HBK was in on it is full of crap. Go watch the match and you see HBK's face. I kno they act but you can tell the difference and his expression was the realist surprise that you cant fake. He didnt know what was up but can you say no to that...especially to vince. bret had what was coming to him, i do think vince did things in the wrong way but i also thank him b/c that event sparked a fire thats has lifted sports entertainment into an era of chaos and controversy and let's face it people eric bischoff is right about one thing...controversy creates cash

Agreed, yeah you don't get to just leave a company as champ while you're planning on jumping ship, unless you are Benoit coming to WWE. Or Mike Awesome going to WCW. Ok bad examples, but I essentially agree.

 

[The Dungeon]

Okay darn near everybody misconcieves the montreal screwjob. Now like most everybody i agree that bret hart made the right decision finacially moving to WCW, who can blame him. But you must also be able to see things from vince's side of the fence. here he is in the middle of the monday night wars and hes losing, and the one man who's leading his company is Bret Hart. And now your one guy who your supposed to be able to depend on is selling out, WTF!

as for HBK. Why him i cant explain. Why not Austin, undertaker, anybody else, only vince knows but anybody who says HBK was in on it is full of crap. Go watch the match and you see HBK's face.

Shawn admitted....many times...he was in on it!! Nice try....he LIED to Bret.





FOR THE 15 MILLIONTH TIME...THIS WASN'T ABOUT MONEY...HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT!! IF IT WAS ABOUT MONEY...BRET WOULD'VE LEFT IN 1996!!!! WHY DON'T PEOPLE EVER GET THIS!!!!! IT WAS NEVER ABOUT MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Emmet]

Im in disbelief that people are still saying that Bret left for the money, people who make such a claim obviously dont know the ins and outs of the situtation. Bret in late 1996 turned down the exact same offer he accepted a year later, he didnt sell out to WCW, Vince forced him out. Everyone knows that by now. Why is it so hard for people to accept? Bret is not a sell out. Bottom line.

 

[The Dungeon]

i dont know about anyone else out there but i think i would take greater offense to the negliegent death of my little brother, than i would to getting "screwed".

Who are you Ric Flair????

Yes Bret did continously mention the screwjob in numerous interviews after Owen's death, but he talks about Owen every bit, if not more than the screwjob!

And if you've seen Bret's interviews, he gets very emotional when he talks about Owen or any of his friends that have passed away!

 

[reddevil69]

okay i can see since you are "the dungeon" , you have got to be a hart mark. now im sorry if i insulted your canadian superman, but bret hart is the type of guy who started to believe his own press. he thought that he really was the WORLD CHAMPION. i liked his deal when i was 12. he got real old real fast. now the point i was trying to get across was, bret didnt do business the right way, he thought that he had earned the right to dictate how and when he lost the belt. he said "oh i dont want to lose in canada" when what he really meant was "oh i dont want to lose to shawn". what did he have to lose by lying down for shawn? nothing. would any of us really care that bret hart lost to hbk again. no we were all excited to see what he could do against a new crop of opponents such as sting and hogan. bret acted like a spoiled brat and he got what was coming to him. if i was mcmahon, after he punched me i would have knocked him on his ass. now i dont respect bret because, his brother was killed due to the wwe being NEGLIGENT,and now bret is back up mcmahons ass. while bret is schmoozing vince, i hope he is thinking of his neice and nephew that are now fatherless due to a stupid unneccesary stunt. the screw job is the best thing that could have happened to bret, because without it, would we still be talking about him. face it, bret was mediocre at best.

Bret was mediocre at best?...Vince did not make him his champion 5 times because he was mediocre...he held the belt when it still meant something and at a time where the champ was the highest paid man in the company, not like the prop it's used as today...anyone can win a title nowadays...

and everyone would still be talking about Bret regardless of the screw job...he meant alot to millions of fans all over the world...he was voted athlete of the year 3 times in a row in Germany....ATHLETE...period...in a country of 170 million people...there goes your theory about him only mattering to Canadians...not even Michael Jordan had that distinction.

And the screw job would never have had the impact it did if it happened to anyone else at that time. if it had been Shawn that got screwed it would have never had the impact on the business that it did. Shawn was not as big of a star and did not command the respect from the fans that Bret did in 1997

I'm not talking about HBK 2008. Bret was one of the biggest stars of the 80's boom, he was a two time tag team champion and i don't give a shit what you say, the tag belts were a big deal in the late 80's...Hart Foundation, Demolition. Bulldogs, they were all seen as big stars and they all headlined house shows as tag champions and Bret was a big name worldwide before he became world champion.it is a fact and Vince has verified it in interviews, that Bret received more fan mail than Hogan in 1988, so what the hell are you saying that he would not matter to anyone today?

Bret ushered in and laid the groundwork for the type of work rate that you see in today's WWE product...no one was having the types of matches he was having and doing the things he was doing in the late 80's and early 90's in WWF..not hogan, not Warrior, not Piper, not Flair, and as good as he was, not even Randy Savage...none of them had the calibre of main event matches that Bret was having

the fact is this: you have a bunch of guys in their 30's who all wrestle now and praise flair because he was what they grew up on...let's see what the next generation of guys coming in now cite as their influence...anyone that was watching wrestling in the early 90's and was in their teens and aspiring to be a wrestler watched the Hitman and learned from him and respected his craft...just ask C.M. Punk, Kenny,Shelton Benjamin, and just about any other guy that's in his mid to late twenties and wrestling right now...

don't get me wrong, HBK has his mark on the business as well, but Bret did it first and was on top longer than Shawn in the 90's, thus his impact is still being felt today. to say that Bret was mediocre is ignorant. there is a reason his dvd has outsold shawns and his book has already outsold shawn's without being marketed by WWE. it's because Bret MATTERS to people.

 

[Trumike]

Everyone talks about Bret because of the screwjob. Nobody has mentioned that this is a business and he was an independent contractor. He got paid to do what was asked and told to him. Now Bret is no Wayne Gretzkey to the people of Canada. He wished he was. He wanted to be more but was nothing. He doesn't like Shawn Michaels. Not many people do. So What? He should have been professional and did his job and left. I do understand him being upset about his brother Owen. But Vince didn't strap Owen up to secure him. Remember Shawn Michaels once came from the top on a rope during a payperview himself. Bret reminds me of Bruno Sammartino. People who bitch about their old jobs. They need to get over it.

 

[chance]

just a correction from a previous post he doesn't hate the wwe for life. He is in the hall of fam, and he did a dvd for them. he also appeared on the mcmahon appreciation night, granted yes it was indeed crap about mcmahon, however he did show up and that was scripted.

That having been said, Vince Mcmahon did not need too do that, would it have been that bad too have him lose it the next night on raw.

 

[reddevil69]

Bret was mediocre at best?...Vince did not make him his champion 5 times because he was mediocre...he held the belt when it still meant something and at a time where the champ was the highest paid man in the company, not like the prop it's used as today...anyone can win a title nowadays...

and everyone would still be talking about Bret regardless of the screw job...he meant alot to millions of fans all over the world...he was voted athlete of the year 3 times in a row in Germany....ATHLETE...period...in a country of 170 million people...there goes your theory about him only mattering to Canadians...


first off , hogan held the belt 5 times as well and he sucked in the ring. bret would have never been given the belt in the first place if it wasnt for vinces steroid trial and his attempt to push smaller non enhanched talent. all brets matches were the same. people, including myself talk shit about cena being repetitive, well bret hart was one of the most predictable wrestlers ive ever seen. and for your comment about his hero status in germany i have two words for you............. DAVID HASSELHOFF.

Bret's matches were not the same...all you have to do is watch his matches with Bulldog, Bam Bam, Hennig, HBK, Undertaker, Hakushi, Austin, Yokozuna, Owen, Nash/Diesel, and Scott Hall to see that...Flair is considered the best ever and he worked the same match every night for 20 years, just watch his DVD...and your Hasselhoff comment is ridiculous,last i checked he's not an athlete, and Robbie Williams is huge in England, does that make all British people stupid?....the point is that people say that Bret had no impact outside of Canada and the number's and merch figures he achieved in Germany, England, Spain, Israel prove otherwise....HBK never achieved the status that Bret did outside of the U.S. during the 90's.

if Bret was still an active WWE wrestler during the last decade he'd be a huge star and no-one would be questioning any of this. HBK was fortunate to be able to come back and resurrect his career for the past 6 years and it doesn't hurt that his best friend is the boss' son in law either.

 

[Skillz]

first off , hogan held the belt 5 times as well and he sucked in the ring.

^That statement alone shows that you know absolutely nothing about professional wrestling.

Bret Hart carried the WWF from 92-97. He was the champion more times than anyone else, and held the belt longer than anyone else during this time. This is down to him being the best draw they had, a great champion who always gave the belt huge amounts of credibility, and because he was the best wrestler. It's that simple.

all brets matches were the same. people, including myself talk shit about cena being repetitive, well bret hart was one of the most predictable wrestlers ive ever seen.

This is one of the most laughable things I've ever read. Bret Hart was one of the most versatile wrestlers of all time, all you have to do is watch his matches to know that...

Bret's matches were not the same...all you have to do is watch his matches with Bulldog, Bam Bam, Hennig, HBK, Undertaker, Hakushi, Austin, Yokozuna, Owen, Nash/Diesel, and Scott Hall to see that...Flair is considered the best ever and he worked the same match every night for 20 years, just watch his DVD...

the point is that people say that Bret had no impact outside of Canada and the number's and merch figures he achieved in Germany, England, Spain, Israel prove otherwise....HBK never achieved the status that Bret did outside of the U.S. during the 90's.

if Bret was still an active WWE wrestler during the last decade he'd be a huge star and no-one would be questioning any of this. HBK was fortunate to be able to come back and resurrect his career for the past 6 years and it doesn't hurt that his best friend is the boss' son in law either.

^Couldn't have said it better.

 

[reddevil69]

First of all, the best way to get your point across isn't to simply put it in capitals. If it's worth it, people will take note. This however, isn't. So there's 2 of you, debatong against me, one saying it was about losing in Canada, the other saying it isn't? Gosh make your mind up.

For the last time. Bret had a job to do. It's not to him to decide when he does it and when he doesn't. Vince wanted Shawn to beat him at Survivor Series to begin his championship reign. It's Vince's company, he decides what goes. When Bret Hart is making the multi millions McMahon is running just as successful company, he can have a say in the matter. Whilst he's just an employee, the boss has the say. Have you ever had a job before? I'm sure you'll know what I mean then.

And NorCal, if it was an 'unwritten rule' not to lose in Canada, it's still the biggest load of shit I've ever heard, and I'm glad Vince went against it.

The Montreal incident is wrestling lore today, but let’s not forget that Michael’s feud, on air and backstage, with Bret Hart is an underlying dynamic to the situation. In such a situation, both men can be wrong, or both can be right, but given the reputations, it’s hard to fault Hart for his stubbornness.

One was a perennial professional. The other was not.

bottom line: say what you want about Bret Hart, but his peers all unanimously recall him as a professional who put business first....Shawn put himself and his pals Nash and Hall ahead of what was best for the company and the other wrestlers who had to earn a living...i don't care if you like someone personally or not, i'll take the guy who helps me pay my bills over the guy who puts me out of a job any day of the week.

 

[HBK-aholic]

HBK was fortunate to be able to come back and resurrect his career for the past 6 years and it doesn't hurt that his best friend is the boss' son in law either.

First of all, you're hanging onto straws here aren't you? What does Triple H have anything to do with anything that happens with Shawn Michaels. Please, recount Shawns last title run for me? And then tell me that HHH has anything to do with what Shawn does in the ring.

The Montreal incident is wrestling lore today, but let’s not forget that Michael’s feud, on air and backstage, with Bret Hart is an underlying dynamic to the situation. In such a situation, both men can be wrong, or both can be right, but given the reputations, it’s hard to fault Hart for his stubbornness.

Both men have been in the wrong regarding that. Both have also been in the right. Your point?

bottom line: say what you want about Bret Hart, but his peers all unanimously recall him as a professional who put business first....Shawn put himself and his pals Nash and Hall ahead of what was best for the company

Actually, Shawn has done what is best for the business countless times. the business is his life. Vince asked him to do something, he did it. It has nothing to do with Shawn. He didn't just do the Montreal Screwjob. He was asked by his boss, something you don't say no to.

and the other wrestlers who had to earn a living...i don't care if you like someone personally or not, i'll take the guy who helps me pay my bills over the guy who puts me out of a job any day of the week.

Montreal has nothing to do with liking wrestlers personally. I think both guys have good in ring skills. Which I've said countless times. However I prefer Shawn. But as I've said before, in regards to Montreal, Hart was so much more in the wrong. Shawn did nothing except follow his bosses orders.

 

[reddevil69]

First of all, you're hanging onto straws here aren't you? What does Triple H have anything to do with anything that happens with Shawn Michaels. Please, recount Shawns last title run for me? And then tell me that HHH has anything to do with what Shawn does in the ring.




Both men have been in the wrong regarding that. Both have also been in the right. Your point?



Actually, Shawn has done what is best for the business countless times. the business is his life. Vince asked him to do something, he did it. It has nothing to do with Shawn. He didn't just do the Montreal Screwjob. He was asked by his boss, something you don't say no to.



Montreal has nothing to do with liking wrestlers personally. I think both guys have good in ring skills. Which I've said countless times. However I prefer Shawn. But as I've said before, in regards to Montreal, Hart was so much more in the wrong. Shawn did nothing except follow his bosses orders.

Shawn did not do what his boss asked, he orchestrated the whole thing...he admitted in his book and HHH said it on Shawn's dvd that they came up with the idea to swerve Bret...Shawn says it in black and white in his book that Vince told him that he did not think Bret would ever leave for WCW with belt.

Shawn and HHH told him that they could not be sure about that and Vince never even broached the idea of screwing Bret until they brought it up...He told Shawn to lay the blame on him because he knew guys like Taker, Austin,Rock, Foley, Simmons, Rude, Owen,Bulldog, Anvil,and Shamrock would have probably made Shawn's life miserable if they knew he was in on it...

not to mention Shawn snifflling like a little baby on the Wrestling with Shadows film...he was crying because he felt guilty and he was scared because he knew he probably had a beating coming and deserved it..a man does not cry when he knows he's in the right, he stands up and defends his actions and is willing to take an ass-kicking if he feels he's right...next you'll be telling me that O.J. Simpson led the police on a 8 hour car chase because he was trying to convince them he had nothing to hide.

and finally, it is a known fact that Shawn,Nash,and Hall held back peoples careers and took away opportunities for them to earn more money...why would Bret honor that by putting Shawn over?...that's the point he was trying to make...Foley said himself that if Bret had had his way, Taker,Austin or Foley would have ended up with the title.... and if it was not for Bret getting screwed the McMahon/Austin feud would not have been conceptualized...

i respect Shawn as a worker and an athlete, but i seriously believe, without bias, that if it was Shawn who got screwed and left for WCW things would not have taken off the way they did. I don't think, that based on ratings, merchandise and international drawing power, that HBK was at Hart's level at that point in 1997...upon returning in 2002 many people have gone back and re-examined his career and the combination of that and the outstanding performances he's displayed the past 6 years have given him icon status.

and i've heard and read all the stories, Shawn does appear to be a humble, graceful man today, but 10 years ago is a different time and he was not a well liked nor respected member of that locker room and i think the Montreal incident goes alot further than one guy not wanting to job to the other.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Trust me I've read Shawns book. Repeatedly. So there's nothing in it I don't know. Vince McMahon asked Shawn to do what he did. Shawn would have never done so without McMahons say on the matter. In the end, Shawn was just the person who did it. Peoples feelings about Shawn mean little. It was about McMahon and Hart. Shawn came into it in order to go through with this, but as has been said, it was about McMahon and what he thought was best for the business.

If McMahon had even a slight worry Hart would take the belt to WCW, which would cause huge damage, why would he risk that? And Shawn was the guy Vince had chosen to take over the company, what would it say to have the 'best of WCW' defeat the 'Best of WWE'? It was a concious business decision by McMahon, nothing personal involved.