Bret should have done the time honored tradition when leaving a FED which is drop the title. A wrestler shouldn't get to pick and choose where and to whom he drops the title. That is not reasonable creative control.
When it comes to Bret I wouldn't believe a word he says. Just ask his ex-wife how good his word is.
Maybe not in your opinion!!!
Yeah, lets get into his personal life!! I can go on for hours about even so of the most honourable wrestlers within the business weren't exactly the most faithful to there wives!!! So lets not open up THAT can of worms people!!!
So him cheating on his wife was no big deal because he never said "I give you my word to be faithful" OF COURSE he is obligated to carry himself with dignity and honor his commitments, in this case to WWF.
Umm..show me where I said that??? You make a big deal about this being about "wrestling" and "losing a fake match" so lets stick to that subject ok.
Yes, Bret was an ass for cheating on is wife...there I said it!!
But let's stick to the subject because now you're using his personal life to try to paint him even more negatively! Now you truly are grasping straws!!
Even Bret has said himself..."In my personal life, I've done things that were not so smart, and downright stupid. But in the business, I don't feel I ever have". So there...
Neither of us have seen the contract, we can only take as fact what both men who have seen it say, the only part they agree on is that he had "reasonable creative control" not he can leave any way he wants. Bret would have left with dignity if he carried himself with integrity, he didn't have integrity, so he didn't get dignity, it's a simple formula.
Man...how many times do I have to repeat myself. Both Bret & Vince have said in interviews, that the TERMS of "Reasonable Creative Control" specified that Bret can leave anyway he wants. Vince said that was fine with him, as long as Bret didn't put himself over clean on anyone, or bury his talent! Which Bret has also said he never would've done!
So standing up for himself isn't dignified or a sign of integrity? I'd hate to see how your life is!!! I know if someone disrespects me, they're gonna hear about it, and I aint gonna mix words, and I'll damn sure keep my Dignity & Integrity! I'd expect anybody not just in wrestling, but in life to do the same!!!!
I said he should have done the angle professionally or not at all, if he didn't want to be portrayed that way, which he wasn't it was shown he was innocent, he should have abstained from the angle on moral grounds.
You know that's REALLY easy for YOU to say! Put yourself in Bret's shoes for 2 seconds!!!
According to Bret he did try to wave the angle, and had told Ron Simmons he felt uncomfterable doing it. But Ron said to him, "Don't worry man, it's just a work". But Bret knew, that many fans were passionate, and Ron even said if things get out of hand, he'll have his back. And Bret also wanted to elevate The Rock anyway he could. Vince had said "It's too late now, we've started this thing and now we can't end it". And Bret said it's not so much what the Nation would say, it's what Shawn would say. Bret also stated that he was under the impression from Vince Russo and and other writers was that soon after the angle, it was going to be revealed it was D-X all along. And not to mention of course, Shawn took it too far. Again, I refer to a previous comment I made....Shawn was out of control, and Vince was letting him walk all over him (self admittedly pretty much he said on Shawn's DVD) and he didn't know what he'd say or do on TV. Bret even asked Shawn "Let's not take this too far", and Shawn said "Don't worry". Bret stated all of this in a Canadian TV interview in 1999.
And if you notice, Bret didn't say anything until Shawn's dumbass comment!
But he didn't have the right or authority to refuse at all, I personally think Vince shouldn't let anyone get away with refusing a job without some form of penalty.
Yet he had...and
IMO HE STILL does!!! Again, don't have hardcore facts to back that up, it's just an opinion!! And I still maintain Bret had good reason!!
You say he didn't do it for himself, then say it was his self respect, you can't have it both ways, either way it was purely for him. Besides he wasn't standing up for anything other than his earning potential, which is fine if he'd have the guts to admit it. After all if he could say he left as Champion that makes him more valuble. You say he was a class act, and had all this integrity, but class and integrity are judged by how you treat people, and he treated Julie Hart rather badly, what makes you think he would have anymore class any where else?
Actually, It's been stated by Bret in interviews, as well as me, in numerous posts on this topic in the last 8 months or so, that it was for ALL those reasons! So yes, I can have it both ways, if it was for both reasons! nice try, I'll give you an E for effort on that one!
Bret has said the following things in shoot interviews with RF Video as well as other interviews on TV and Radio.
1) Self respect was a key for him, his own dignity was important too him,and he wouldn't let a prick like Shawn do that to him!
2) A lot of the boys in the back ('Taker, Simmons, Rude, Vader among many others, all of which have said so) were fed up and sick of Shawn's crap, and Bret felt by standing his ground against him, he was representing them, and they have applauded him for it!! Bret always felt that maybe if he put Shawn in his place, he wouldn't screw around with the others so much anymore.
3) Bret has been encountered with the "But why did you not stand up to anyone else?". Bret said, "I stood up to Hogan & stood up to Shawn, other than those 2, nobody ever disrespected me the way they did, so I never had too do anything like that besides those two occasions".
4) Earning potential was a key. All wrestlers are independant contractors, and have to look out for themselves a time or two!!! Bret didn't want to be damaged goods going into WCW. A major loss and bad buildup of ones character CAN hurt, even if you're as famous as a Bret Hart. Look what Austin's heel turn did to him, in my opinion he NEVER recovered from that!!
you don't think it was more than a small coincidence that Bret wanted to be Champ at the time WCW could announce his impending arrival. Give me a break, of course that was what he wanted, otherwise it wouldn't have been a deal to lose a faked fight.
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Ya know what GIVE ME A BREAK buddy!!
My cousins and I used to have our own little wrestling website back when I was still in High School where we'd do columns and such!
In May of 2001, just a while after WCW shutdown. We found out on a wrestling news site, that Eric Bischoff would appear on a Georgia radio station, as it was hyped up as "Former WCW President Eric Bischoff: Two Hours, Uncut, Uncensord and Commercial Free". There was a link to listen to it on the net..so we did.
We wrote a report for it, for our site
And I found out not long ago in a box of old stuff I wrote (I've saved everything I've written since I was a kid), and here's what he said about the Bret Hart situation.
The interviewer asked: "Many people say that the events surrounding Bret Hart, were all mishandled. They say the buildup, the arrival, and the subsuquent events to follow, were botched in many ways".
Eric than began, "Well, I guess I'll start from day one on that one. About 30 seconds after Bret had signed with us, I was already brainstorming ideas of how to bring him in. Bret and I had a deal where he didn't want to leak out his arrival to WCW right away out of respect for Vince & The WWF, and I completely understood that. I told Bret that I wanted to think of something big to hype him up anyway, and I'd start doing something by mid-November, and I wanted it to be a big surprise at the same time. So I came up with this idea, that I wanted to air a vignette that said something along the lines of 'The biggest superstar in our great sport today, has finally arrived in WCW', and I wasn't going to reveal it right away, what I wanted to do, was at the end of it, put the actual date of his arrival. I wanted to air it 3 or 4 times during Nitro, before or after major segments, I was also planning on airing it once or twice during our upcoming pay per view (World War 3), to get people talking. So I was going to meet with the video production team within the next week or so, and all of the sudden I'd gotten word from people that word was already leaking out about Bret's departure. I was actually quite pissed off about that. And to this day, in my opinion, that Vince and the WWF did that intentionally, so they could try to ruin my hype. And in a way, I don't blame them, I'd done much worse things to them, and at that point and time they were desperate. So I was trying to figure out what to do next, do I still air the vignette or not? Do I think of soemthing else? I was going to try to think of something before Nitro. All of the sudden of course, comes the incident in Montreal, but at first I didn't know if this was a work or not. So while getting prepared for Nitro the next day, I found out Bret was not only screwed, but he had also gone home to Calgary, and wasn't going to be at Raw. So I figured right away, I have to jump on this now. I knew I was going to involve Bret & the nWo somehow with one another, so it just popped in my head, to have the nWo come out flanked in Canadian flags, talking about Bret and singing O Canada. In retrospect, it may not have been the best thing to do, but I knew I had to jump on this. I knew this was huge".
Eric said more on the subject of Bret, but it's not neccesary for this subject.
I don't paint Bret any worse than history, he cheated on his wife, his actions paint him as selfish, not I. The difference in our opinions is logic versus affection. I ask you to take a step back and look at the whole situation with objectivity. Both wrestlers were selfish, and Vince had a company to protect. Shawn not willing to job to Bret should be a non issue being Bret was going to the competition, even though he was forced out by Vince breaking his initial contract. So that's not important. You say Bret was standing up for wrestling, so as a traditionalist he should have layed down for the next champ to make him appear strong as is tradition, so he obviously wasn't standing up for wrestling. You say he was standing up for the other wrestlers in the WWF. How, by trying to strike a huge blow to the WWF by holding onto the title until it was legal for WCW to announce on Nitro they signed away the reigning WWF champion? Like it or not, Bret was in business for himself, not that it's a bad thing, but the fact is, he lied about it. He talks about being a stand up guy, and how much integrity he has, but he's a known liar, via his admitted affairs and stating he never did drugs, but contradicts himself in his own book. Lastly what makes you think that if his own wife isn't important to him that anybody else is?
You want me to look at his objectively I will!
Bret cheating on his wife was far beyond scummy!
Shawn was an ass, changed his ways, I applaud him for that, and actually admire him for it as well.
However, when both men had problems in there personal lives, only one let it interfere with the business! And Vince has even said, I think it was in an interview with Bob Costas (I could be wrong), but I know he said "As long as it doesen't interfere with there work, what they do on there own time, is not of my concern as a boss. As a friend to tsome, it is a concern, but as a boss, if they don't bring there home life to work with them, then I have no grounds to dismmiss or fire them".
And again...refer to my previous statment...Bret said always conducted himself well within the business! If you wanan say he didn't...then we'll say he didn't...hell, I'LL say he didn't.
First off..when did Bret ever say he NEVER did drugs??? Bret said he had experemented with them in the 80's, but pretty much althrough the 90's when his big push happened, he never did! So no he didn't lie about that. Again...revisionist history.
Second off...don't recall an interviewer ever asking Bret about affairs until the book came out! And we don't know if Julie ever asked, or if Bret ever told her beforehand. IMO she probably knew. You're entitled to your opinion, but we don't know wether she knew or not!!
The following I'm about to say is NOT a justification!!!
But both Bret and even Julie, have stated that they didn't have the best marriage. To be honest with you, It looks to me (although he never said it) that Bret stopped loving her somewehre along the way. Again, NOT a justification!
There are aspects of life where we have our vices and do certain things that are bad and sometimes downright terrible. But there are also aspects of life where we do all the right things, and try to conduct ourselves in the best way we can!
Now I'm just speaking for myself here. But unless you're perfect I guess you've never had that problem.
Time honoured tradition! Actually that's not even something for Vince to say. Weren't the rules of teh territory a time honoured tradition???? It's coming from Vince, the guy who broke most time honoured tradition's I can think of.
Lets talk more time honoured tradition shall we! Another one is respect in the lockeroom.
Another old school tradition, is standing up for yourself! Lou Thesz, Terry Funk & Harley Race have all applauded Bret for his actions! Now I know you're thinking it was a different time for those guys! But hey, we're talking tradition here, right?
And last I checked besides, most interviews I've heard with people who were there at the time besides Shawn and his buddies, a few company kiss asses, a lot of wrestlers who worked there at the time, said Bret was justified in standing up for himself! That's right they said he was justified for standing up for "HIMSELF!". And other wrestlers have stated that he was also representing them!
I feel bad that he got screwed, because I'm human. But in all honesty he brought it on himself. He refused to honor tradition, and business protocol and got burned. He didn't deserve all the tragedies that befel him after this happened, I'm talking about Owen, his post concussion syndrome from the kick from Goldberg and the Blockbuster from Buff Bagwell, and the motorcycle or car accident(can't remember which) that caused a stroke. But the screwjob was deserved.
Ah yes...Time Honoured Traditon!!! Haha..JOKE!
Now I'm gonna defend him for a minute, for those saying he needs to get over it, I don't see any evidence he hasn't, he doesn't bring it up, interviewers do. And as far as putting it in his book, don't you think he had to, I'd be disappointed if when I get my copy it's not there.
Smartest thing you've said so far!
