10 years on Montreal Screwjob

[arslanbaig]

Well said joe joe. I mean ur post makes sense. It could be true - could be not. It could just be ur way of looking at that matter but as i've said it makes a bit sense that all that happened was just a work to make things smooth for bret to do well in his future stint with wcw.
But as i look upon this screwjob thingy, my mind yells that shawn michaels was innocent. He was just doing what his boss said while bret was reluctant to put shawn over. Bret's stance was that shawn didn't put him over at WM13 so he won't do so at SS97. I mean what the fuck is this in the first place. The relation that both bret and shawn shared was just hatred. Shawn did put bret over many times in late 80s and early90s coz he wasn't that big but in 95, 96 and 97 the situation was opposite. Shawn was the real deal and he may have used some politics to get the required power to alter match finishes but this is how it works. One who is champion atleast gets to know about all the speculating plans around the belt. Every big wwf/wwe superstar has done this in his prime and we know it's true. So what i say that it's been 10 years to that incident and people should get over it. Apart from it i believe if it wasn't a work, things might've happened smoothly between them but since it didn't so let the bygones be bygones. We can't alter the past.
As vince says 'bret screwed bret'.

 

[adam lee]

i think bret heart will never forgive vine mac and is puting on a front im sure the mony was worth it at that time to go to wcw but the way he went was so imfermas that it was hardly worth the way he went its all about the benjamins at the end of the day

 

[natecook59]

In professional wrestling, the wrestlers are the workers and the promotor is the boss. When the boss tells you to lose to somebody, you do it. Michaels was the top heel in the company at that point and it made sense from a business stand point to have him with the title since they wanted to build up Austin to Wrestlemania. Bret Hart was being selfish by refusing to drop the title to Michaels. Hart losing to Michaels at Survivor Series was the right business move for the WWE, except Hart did not want to do it. He put Vince and the WWE in a bad situation.

If Hart's ego was in check there was an easy solution for all parties involved. Have a ref bump late in the match and have DX interference cost Bret the title. Vince and the WWE are then set up for the Michaels/Austin Wrestlemania match with Michaels gaining some good heat for the cheap win over Hart. Plus, Hart is able to walk out of the WWE with his head up by claiming he was cheated out of the title and didn't legitimately lose the belt. But because Bret had an ego about the Championship, about HBK, about Canada, he refused to lose to Michaels. What he did was wrong and Vince responded dramatically to do what was right for business.

 

[kenfuu]

what I don't understand was why not have him lose to Taker the next night? Because after this I believe Shawn Feuded with Taker and they had the casket match where shawn hurt his back, forgive me but i can't remember exactly in the time line that ppv was. So why not have Bret lose to Taker the next night on Raw after taking out Shawn backstage or have the Hary Foundation take him out at SS and as punishment face Taker with the Foundation being banned from ringside and have him lose. Then have everything go as it did with Taker and Michaels in the casket match where Kane comes and interferes and then set up for Austin V Michaels at WrestleMania.

 

[BRandonkin]

The bottom line is that everyone acts like Hart was some type of angel. Because that how hart appeared on camera does not mean he was that guy. Austin has said good things bout Michaels. Undertaker has acknowledge how talented Michaels was. Hart was a player of the game too. Hart talks like he is the man of honor and intergeity "I'm the good guy he says" on his video. He talks about how Shawn lacks that on and off the camera. and now look at HBK. These wrestlers are full of it. Most guys who were upset at the screw job was upset at the lack of unity and teamwork as wrestling matches is like a marriage and McMahon and Co broke that trust, but why is the question. No one was as open as the Kilq I will say with their assholeness. But all these wrestler had pride and ego. Michaels was pest, a brat. Yet in HBK relationships they seemed healthy as the Kliq is still intact. Sunny says they were in love and Michaels was faithful. Hart and Hogan like HBK said in 05 were out there acting all virtuous and passing judgments on folks when they had their own demons. They got everyone believing I am honest and straight forth and how I see it is that Vince was wrong. Shawn Michaels was wrong. But Bret was too. I understand Vince fear. BRet actions show characteristic of why McMahon may have been scared to keep the title on Hart and not on Michaels.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Michael job to Hart several times. When Micahels was IC champ he jobbed. When Micahels was in the ladder match he job. As a rocker he job. Michaels was never better than hart. Michaels has only one match over hart, yet he never job to hart. Get off it.

Michaels jobbed to Hart when Michaels was the IC champ and Hart was in the World title picture. He would be crazy as the IC champ to say he won't work with the World Champ.

Michaels has been quoted multiple times saying he wouldn't job for Hart after he one his first World Title. It is known fact not a rumor.

 

[acma18]

Michaels jobbed to Hart when Michaels was the IC champ and Hart was in the World title picture. He would be crazy as the IC champ to say he won't work with the World Champ.

Michaels has been quoted multiple times saying he would job for Hart after he one his first World Title. It is known fact not a rumor.

Did you mean to say would or wouldn't? Here is what I know. In his off the record interview, he denied that he would rather hand in the belt than lose it and said you wouldn't here Vince telling you that. In Shawns book, he addressed it all and his last thought about it was:

If vince would have pressed me to put bret over i would have. I'm sure i would have made life miserable for a lot of people, but i would have done it. When push came to shove, i always did what Vince wanted.

He didn't want to job to bret, he has admitted that because he didn't think Bret treated him, or the company fairly. But i have never once heard him or seen a quote from him that said he would not job to Bret.

 

[Batistabomb10]

I think the fact that we are arguing about the issue truly means that the screwjob did it's job. Vince McMahon not only wanted to get the belt off of Bret, he also wanted to be talked about, thus getting the ratings back on the side of the WWE.

Listen: I believe that Vince McMahon did this from a business standpoint. He was not sure whether Bret would truly drop the title on the following Raw or not, and feared that the title would be taken to WCW and completely stolen from WWE. I believe that the WWE and Vince McMahon truly made the correct decision from a business standpoint. Was it the correct thing to do on a personal level? Probably not, but the WWE at that point could have cared less about personal issues. COMPANIES FOCUS ON MONEY! That is why the WWE did what they did, and that is why Vince was capable of screwing Bret.
My opinion: The WWE doesn't need Bret Hart. They are doing quite well without him, and I believe that no matter what the situation, Vince McMahon/Shawn Michaels can always be defended as doing the correct thing for business.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Did you mean to say would or wouldn't?

Dammit, I meant to type wouldn't.

Bret didn't want to job to Michaels because Michaels said he would never put Hart over. However, Vince and Shawn were against Bret handing the belt over on RAW because if he never actually lost it, then he could claim that he was still the "real" champ when he went to WCW.

Also, to everyone saying Survivor Series was Bret's last day and that should force him to drop the title- Read the facts, Hart only appeared on Nitro the next day because of the screwjob. His WCW contract didn't start for almost another month.

 

[mattitude_03]

Listen: I believe that Vince McMahon did this from a business standpoint. He was not sure whether Bret would truly drop the title on the following Raw or not, and feared that the title would be taken to WCW and completely stolen from WWE. I believe that the WWE and Vince McMahon truly made the correct decision from a business standpoint. Was it the correct thing to do on a personal level? Probably not, but the WWE at that point could have cared less about personal issues.

I think i have to agree with you on this point i mean Vince had Bret Hart going to WCW his rival company that was kicking his ass at this time so he didnt care what he did to Bret at all. Wasnt going to stop Bret going was it? From a business standpoint i think Vince made one of the only decisions he coulda made. From personal and professional point of view it was 100% wrong to screw him.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I think the fact that we are arguing about the issue truly means that the screwjob did it's job. Vince McMahon not only wanted to get the belt off of Bret, he also wanted to be talked about, thus getting the ratings back on the side of the WWE.

Listen: I believe that Vince McMahon did this from a business standpoint. He was not sure whether Bret would truly drop the title on the following Raw or not, and feared that the title would be taken to WCW and completely stolen from WWE. I believe that the WWE and Vince McMahon truly made the correct decision from a business standpoint. Was it the correct thing to do on a personal level? Probably not, but the WWE at that point could have cared less about personal issues. COMPANIES FOCUS ON MONEY! That is why the WWE did what they did, and that is why Vince was capable of screwing Bret.
My opinion: The WWE doesn't need Bret Hart. They are doing quite well without him, and I believe that no matter what the situation, Vince McMahon/Shawn Michaels can always be defended as doing the correct thing for business.

I agree with you on your first point, the screwjob totally worked in terms of getting viewers attention.

However, I don't agree with anyone who thinks Bret was gonna take the belt to Nitro. If Bret was gonna make the WWE look bad, leave early, and take the championship with him, why would he show up to the PPV that he and Vince couldn't determine an ending for? If he wanted to make the WWF look bad, he would have left them with no main event at a PPV.

I can see why you defend Vince from a business stand point, but it was still flat out wrong considering the resume of the superstar. Its a definate matter of opinion, but I will never stand by Vince.

 

[reddevil69]

for those of you who like to claim that the reason that Hart did not succeed in WCW had nothing to do with politics, i suggest after you read his book, if you're not convinced, that you read Chris Jericho's book for proof that it had nothing to do with Bret's marketabilty...and for those that claim that the WWE doesn't need Bret and he was not an asset to the company i say this: did anyone catch HBK's promo this past monday on RAW?...gee, ya think he just may break out the sharpshooter this sunday?....we'll see what happens but it looks to me like they are going to once again exploit Bret by using his finishing move at the Survivor Series...i may be wrong, but if that is the case, it is proof positive that any association with Hart the company has gets people talking because Bret did and still does matter to many....and it will also prove that it is the WWE and Shawn Michaels that keep threading the incident in 1997 into storylines a decade later and clearly can not let die....why can't they just leave it be?...and they have the nerve to state that Bret is the one who won't let it go....

 

[The Dungeon]

Well said man..

You know, I find it truly sad and pathetic what revisionist history has taught todays fans! To downplay the contributions of Bret, is a slap in the face to Bret and an indictment of you revisionist fans!!!!

 

[Emmet]

for those of you who like to claim that the reason that Hart did not succeed in WCW had nothing to do with politics, i suggest after you read his book, if you're not convinced, that you read Chris Jericho's book for proof that it had nothing to do with Bret's marketabilty...and for those that claim that the WWE doesn't need Bret and he was not an asset to the company i say this: did anyone catch HBK's promo this past monday on RAW?...gee, ya think he just may break out the sharpshooter this sunday?....we'll see what happens but it looks to me like they are going to once again exploit Bret by using his finishing move at the Survivor Series...i may be wrong, but if that is the case, it is proof posititve that any association with Hart the company has gets people talking because Bret did and still does matter to many....and it will also prove that it is the WWE and Shawn Michaels that keep threading the incident in 1997 into storylines a decade later and clearly can not let die....why can't they just leave it be?...and they have the nerve to state that Bret is the one who won't let it go....

is there a video link anywhere to the HBK interview reddevil?

There is no doubt in my mind that they are going to do the screwjob finish all over again, for the 48th different time since the original. Jesus just let it go Vince

 

[Point4Dave]

I thought it was pretty sick. still do. Bret's book is really good, it revealed nothing new about the screwjob. Speaking of his book, he mentions the Disco Inferno being 'comic relief' ... in Disco's recent writing of some of his opponents, his statement on Bret is clearly a retaliation.

 

[KeepItGully]

This so called screwjob was all a work. Vince would never let camaras in the back to fim Wrestling with Shadows. He especially wouldn't let them do it during this time period when Bret was in contract negotiations and WCW was dominating. I think there were a select few that thought it was going to be a screwjob. Such as Brisco, Patterson, Shane, Michaels, Russo and Hebner. However, Vince and Bret were the only two in on the work.

 

[jamesjd66]

I don't think this was mentioned yet. On WWE.com, there is a What If? section that asks a very interesting question. What if Bret and Vince screwd HBK. It asks HHH, Austin, The King, Jim The Anvil, and Bret himself. Check it out. Pretty interesting

 

[mattitude_03]

This so called screwjob was all a work. Vince would never let camaras in the back to fim Wrestling with Shadows. He especially wouldn't let them do it during this time period when Bret was in contract negotiations and WCW was dominating. I think there were a select few that thought it was going to be a screwjob. Such as Brisco, Patterson, Shane, Michaels, Russo and Hebner. However, Vince and Bret were the only two in on the work.

Nice theory man everything kinda works out and both you and JoeJoe have very well thought out theories and they work and stuff and even have made me think about it more. But i do still think it was a screwjob how much Shawn and Earl had to do with it i dont know and im not sure we'll ever know.

 

[alex0000000]

well let me be 1 to say i remember the screw job and it was awsome ............. i mean i hated bret hart and was a big hbk so i was so happy when it happend......... the whole thing people dont understand is hbk did not know about it either ..... the whole spit in the face though was awsome and is priceless so i just look at it as a turning point in wrestling when bret hart went to the worss wcw.... boy vince got the better end of that deal lol love him or hate him he caused a bigg bigg ordeal that we are still talking about ten years from the event .... boy vince really out did him self .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[gibsonplyer]

This is a case of both sides being wrong in my opinion. Vince handled it badly which you can see from the reactions of the other wrestlers to what went down but it worked out for him in the end.

Bret was wrong IMO though. I don't care what your problem is with the guy he's the guy the company wants to put the belt on so deal with it. Your not going to be there so who cares? You can't just destroy the companies plans just for your own personal problems especially as you're walking out the door to the competition.

His plan of just handing over the belt the next day is BS to me. You leave the company after beating their top guy never actually losing the belt so in the eyes of the fans the best guy in the WWF just went to WCW and no one in the WWF could beat him. Yeah that looks real great for a struggling product. I don't care if he actually has the belt or not he's still the uncrowned champion.

His problem should be with WCW for not capitalizing on any of it.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Hart didn't appear on Nitro the next day...

Thats right, but they did announce his signing (to the nWo). However, this only proves my point more, he wasn't planning to be on Nitro the next night, he was planning to be on Raw, to drop the belt.

 

[NYSandman]

I still keep reading about Bret Hart and the Montreal screwjob. Isn't it time that wrestling puts this away?

I mean, it has been years and everytime I see or hear Bret Hart, all I hear about is Montreal! I cannot say for sure exactly what happened, or what the depth of HBK and Vince's roles were.

Also, it seems to me that Bret Hart was NOT the icon and legend he claimed to be. Hart was a great technical wrestler, but he certainly, IMHO, didn't set the world on fire.

I can understand that WWE may have been afraid that Bret would have taken the belt with him, and maybe that is indeed the reason. I have read that Hart refused to lose to Shawn Michaels. I normally would be pissed at this, because you are supposed to do your damn job, but I also understand that Bret had creative control the last 30 days of his contract. If that is indeed true, then it was a screw job.

But, it's over. Let's stop hearing about it in every Bret Hart interview, every wrestling board. If Hart wants to make some type of return, just do it and forget about Montreal. Bret seems more pissed over that then the senseless death of his brother.

Bret talks shit about Shawn, but I think Shawn has done WAY more for the business, and is a better wrestler.

 

[Shocky]

I still keep reading about Bret Hart and the Montreal screwjob. Isn't it time that wrestling puts this away?

I mean, it has been years and everytime I see or hear Bret Hart, all I hear about is Montreal! I cannot say for sure exactly what happened, or what the depth of HBK and Vince's roles were.

Also, it seems to me that Bret Hart was NOT the icon and legend he claimed to be. Hart was a great technical wrestler, but he certainly, IMHO, didn't set the world on fire.

I can understand that WWE may have been afraid that Bret would have taken the belt with him, and maybe that is indeed the reason. I have read that Hart refused to lose to Shawn Michaels. I normally would be pissed at this, because you are supposed to do your damn job, but I also understand that Bret had creative control the last 30 days of his contract. If that is indeed true, then it was a screw job.

But, it's over. Let's stop hearing about it in every Bret Hart interview, every wrestling board. If Hart wants to make some type of return, just do it and forget about Montreal. Bret seems more pissed over that then the senseless death of his brother.

Bret talks shit about Shawn, but I think Shawn has done WAY more for the business, and is a better wrestler.

The thing is though, alot of people say for Bret to just get over it, and I understand that, but why are they so quick to jump on Bret when he brings it up, but give the WWE a free pass every time they bring the screw job up?

The WWE makes sure they can exploit the screw job almost at every single chance they get. Hell, McMahon and Michaels had a feud centered around it nearly 8 years later. They did the screw job ending at the Survivor Series the year after. Michaels busted out the Sharpshooter at the tenth anniversary of the Screw Job. Michaels played the Montreal crowd back in 2005 teasing a Bret come back. The reason it stays around is because the WWE simply won't let it die.

Why don't people let it die? It's real simple, it's probably the most famous storyline in the history of the business. Why? Because a company completely and deliberately screwed the biggest draw the company had had the last 5 years. We can argue all you want, but numbers don't lie, and Bret did much more for the WWF in the 90's then Shawn Michaels did, no matter what WWE Re-visionist thinking will tell you. Bret Hart is more over then Michaels ever was world wide. I know Kliqsters have a hard time believing that, but that is fact.

It's simple, why would Bret let it die when the WWE keeps telling everyone their side of the story. The WWE keeps making money off of it, why shouldn't Bret? If the WWE lets it die, Bret will probably let it die.

And Bret not being the legend we think he is? The proof is in the pudding, if you didn't see his HoF induction, then you need to watch it. If you didn't hear the pop he got in Montreal when Michaels teased his return, you need to find it. Bret transcends the business, guys like Michaels and Triple H will only be known for wrestling.

 

[Mad Metal]

Why is Bret and everyone still talking about the "screw job"? It's simple, the story sells.

Like Paul Bearer said, back a couple years ago during the Hogan/HBK feud that was leading into SummerSlam, Shawn Michaels teased that Bret Hart would enter the arena for a confrontation in Montreal by playing the Hitman's entrance music video. Just look at the massive heat Shawn Michaels got. It worked, didn't it? During the feud leading into WrestleMania between HBK and Vince, the "screw job" was brought up to bring even more heat to Vince with the idea the same thing can happen to Shawn Michaels.

It's common sense to know that this is a story that actually sells. This is a story that really gets people talking with the controversy that was created. That's why the term "controversy" is always implied when professional wrestling is brought onto the table.

 

[BRandonkin]

Yeah, it fun to draw to heat off of, but to still be upset and pissed off about 3,650+ days is riduclous. It only works because people are so upset about it.

All these people said Bret had a grueling schedule, but McMahon says in the "lost my smile speech" no one had the schedule HBK had. Jim Ross said it often during HBK top face push. So Michaels had a rough schedule, so enough with the schedule. Bottom line is it happen. Let it go. I think michaels wrestle 3 months straight at one time with only three days off. It was something crazy like that. I mean these were great competitors. Like hart says, you can't deny the greatness of michaels.

Now back to the moment. The company man does what the company needs done. Not what best for his character. Neither Michaels nor hart was a company man. Barry Horowitz was one and the Brooklyn Brawler and most importantly Vince McMahon. Not those two. Hart should of drop it espically understanding how Eric Biscoff was with Maduasa run and his ECW champion attempt that WWE could not afford that. HBK did it because he got to be the man again. Bret did not mine losing the title, just not to Michaels,. Strike two of the company man theory because he would swallow his pride. I think that the problem with Wrestling now, to many egos. That folks get thrown into the main event and don't deserve it.