10 years on Montreal Screwjob

[Slim Pickns]

Repected outside of the ring? You're right. But inside of the ring, both Taker and Foley have credit Shawn as being the opponent of one of, if not the, best match of their career.

Bret admitted to steroids. Its not like i assumed and placed it on him. Shawn said that Vince respected him because he hadn't, which i choose to take at face value. He's lied before, but with multiple wrestlers having already admiting to it, i don't see why he would.

Yes, Bret has said he has used steriods in his book, however there is no evidence that this is the reason he was never injured. Plus, steroids are easily obtainable so Shawn could have had the same advantage. The fact is Bret did work an over 10 year schedule without time off, Shawn did not.

I honestly think that of you watch the backstage video from the night of the screwjob, bret's side of the story, and then Shawn and Vince's side, you'll think differently about this situation.

In my opinion the only people who fully stick up for Shawn and bash Bret are the ones getting there info from 2006 DX skits rather than the three main people involved.

 

[Emmet]

I agree Bret is more respected by the wrestlers but look at marketability and merchandising, the numbers there tell the story of financial successes and failures, Are you telling me that Bret sold more merchandise then HBK or HHH. And to be fair, people buy the tshirts and other crap for the guy that they came to see, not somebody else.

What was done in Montreal was the result of dispicable and childish actions by Bret and Vince, I really think Shawn was just along for the ride and did as told, not that, that in and of itself excuses his actions, but he need to make a living.

You cant be serious?I can sorta see your argument there for HBK but defintely not HHH, Bret sold merchandise consistently high for Vince for years, who buys HHH t-shirts of HHH related stuff anymore? Hardly anyone I would say. Bret was idloised in Germany, U.K, India, Japan among other places, HBK wasnt.

Bret said in a interview recently that he stopped using steriods in 1989. Once he had risen in the WWF.

Bret worked twice as hard as Shawn. No one worked a schedule like Bret Hart. No one.

 

[acma18]

Yes, Bret has said he has used steriods in his book, however there is no evidence that this is the reason he was never injured. Plus, steroids are easily obtainable so Shawn could have had the same advantage. The fact is Bret did work an over 10 year schedule without time off, Shawn did not.

I honestly think that of you watch the backstage video from the night of the screwjob, bret's side of the story, and then Shawn and Vince's side, you'll think differently about this situation.

In my opinion the only people who fully stick up for Shawn and bash Bret are the ones getting there info from 2006 DX skits rather than the three main people involved.

I have watched it, multiple times in fact. I've also watch the other side of the story from WWE standpoint. Doesn't change anything. I think everyone was to blame. Bret, shawn vince, hunter. I just see both sides while most people choose to see only one.

I don't even remember 2006 DX covering the subject. My opinion is from Shawns book, brets book, Brets behind the scenes video and the other side of the story from WWE Confidential.

 

[Slim Pickns]

I have watched it, multiple times in fact. I've also watch the other side of the story from WWE standpoint. Doesn't change anything. I think everyone was to blame. Bret, shawn vince, hunter. I just see both sides while most people choose to see only one.

I don't even remember 2006 DX covering the subject. My opinion is from Shawns book, brets book, Brets behind the scenes video and the other side of the story from WWE Confidential.

That comment was a generalization, not really directed towards you. I think its easy to blame it on all of them, but the fact is, this was not a compromise of what the three wanted. This was Shawn and Vince getting what they wanted while Bret got screwed. He didn't deserve this at all, even if he was being a little stuborn during his final months.

 

[RuKDaD]

The Montreal Screwjob is the night professional wrestling died. Wrestling had some great moments after it happened, but nothing like before then. I'd rather see Hulk Hogan beat Yokozuna after Yokozuna beat Bret Hart instead of seeing Stone Cold chug a beer for the 50,000th time.

 

[beetle717]

Sorry, but I disagree. Merchandise sales are not the only source of revenue. Just because you go to a WWE event and by a DX shirt doesn't make them better than Bret Hart or John Cena or anyone else.

I don't think Shawn was just along for the ride either. Look at how many superstars were pissed off threatening to quit after that incident. Do you think any of them would have done what Shawn did? The reason Michaels was in the ring is because he was the only one who would do that. Its not a good thing like the WWE would want you to believe, its a bad thing.

Oh, and do you know who told those superstars not to quit the WWF? It was Bret "the Hitman" Hart.

But the merchandise sales revenue for HBK and HHH are higher than Bret's ever were, that should tell you who the fans back and who was more successful at getting themselves over. After all you buy the shirt of the guy you're there to see, not just somebody random. I am not gonna buy a Cena shirt next time I go if I don't like him, I'm gonna buy HBK's or Carlito, or somebody else I do enjoy watching.


For those that talk about the UK, Germany, Japan and such you're absolutly right Bret was bigger there. But now let me ask you this, what country was WWF/E's Greatest revenue coming from? Where were the majority of live events held? Who was on top there? Wouldn't the true measure of success be here in the US where the overwhelming majority of business was done?

 

[BRandonkin]

First off, I think that Bret and HBK are evenly matched. I think they are the best of their styles and an excellent proof of the transition of wrestling. I think that it went from the new generation (hart), the transition (Michaels) and attitude (austin) and to take anything from these guys is wrong.

Like HBK or Hate him (same for hart) these guys are the best and depending on your preference you place one above the other. History tells us that HHH is better than both of them and that a crock of B.S but anyway. The screwjob was horrible. It consisted of three egos. It is my opinion that Vince is responsible because of a fear of what happen with Mudusa and what they even tried to do with the ECW championship shows they were not pass bringing rival companies champs on tv and disrespecting the title. That is Vince fear. Hart wanted to be a hero, a front. He got mad at Michaels for talking about sunny, yet he was cheating on his wife and i remember when Michaels said he tries to act like this guy that he s not. It was true. I think Michaels went along because he disliked Bret. It happened. Bret needs to let it go. Bret is holding a grudge and it pulling on him. He wasn't the great in WCW and he getting older. Hate corrodes the spirit.

Why does no one talk about the 1/2 year bret took after losing the title when they talk about this workload his was on. I remember Todd Petingill saying that Shawn was carrying a bigger workload than hart. I have a video where Michaels is wrestling and it he had only four nights off in the last 3 months. I say this saying they both had dirt. He was on steroids bret said where if you remember Michaels was stripped of the IC title because of steroids in 1993 leading to his feud with Scott Hall. Maybe that why Michaels was tore up. hart had some injuries if you can remember the Austin and HBK partnership was because of Hart torn knees so let stop with the 12 years 2 nights missed. What should of happen was Bret should of dropped it because he was leaving to whoever Vince wanted champ. Vince should of worked out a way for Michaels to win clearly. Michaels and HHH should of had nothing to do with the screw only the story. Stop blaming Michaels. Stop tearing both of them down.

 

[reddevil69]

I agree Bret is more respected by the wrestlers but look at marketability and merchandising, the numbers there tell the story of financial successes and failures, Are you telling me that Bret sold more merchandise then HBK or HHH. And to be fair, people buy the tshirts and other crap for the guy that they came to see, not somebody else.

What was done in Montreal was the result of dispicable and childish actions by Bret and Vince, I really think Shawn was just along for the ride and did as told, not that, that in and of itself excuses his actions, but he need to make a living.

YES Bret did sell more merchandise than HHH and HBK.....the two biggest merchandise sellers for the WWF in the 90's were Bret and Undertaker and that is a fact and there is more than enough info to support it... stop being a moron...house show attendance was higher for Jan/Feb/March of 1996 than it was for the rest of the year...who was champ all those months when it was higher? BRET HART....as soon as HBK got the belt, the WWF experienced one of the worst fiscal years in it's history because that was still the era of the champ being the focal point of the promotion and Shawn clearly could not carry the ball, especially up against WCW.........Dave Meltzer has all the facts, figures and statistics to prove it and he's in a far better position to comment on those types of things than you are, so quit bitching about Shawn and making shit up......if Bret was still a part of WWE the past decade he would still out sell HHH and HBK....why is it that both Shawns and HHH's dvd sets that were released in 2002 and 2003 have not sold near as much as Bret's dvd from 2005?....it is a fact that Undertaker's Tombstone dvd is the highest selling non-wrestlemania dvd in WWE history, Bret's dvd is 2nd.....HBK's new dvd comes out this month, if it outsells Bret's then you can say it did, until then stick to the facts or shut up about it!!!.....also Shawn is a self admitted former pain pill addict....i have two brand new shoot dvd interviews with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, both were in the cliq and both are friends with Shawn and Hunter, and they both say they thought Bret was great....and they both admit that between 1994 and 1997, Shawn was out of his head on pills most of the time outside the ring.....so you are going to sit here and tell everyone that a dude who is wasted on pain mediction, and had to be carried to his hotel room every night because he was trashed, is going to have a more accurate account of what went on backstage and after the events than Bret Hart who recorded everything on a dictaphone the night the events took place, and never was out of his head on drugs?.....this revisionist bullshit is no different than Flair making those asinine comments in his book about Hart....Flair was not even in the WWE at that time this was going down!!!!!....he's going by what HHH and HBK have told him and because he's HHH's little buddy and has been sucking up to him since returning to the WWE in 2001, he's allowed to get away with it....he's another jerk who was drunk most of his career and i wouldn't take his word for shit....the guy pulls out his cock and waves it in a female airline attendants face and gets a warning...on the same flight Curt Hennig gets fired for starting a shoot match with Brock Lesnar???..last time i checked indecent exposure is illegal, is it not?.......this just proves that HHH has protected HBK and Flair and has allowed the facts of the screwjob in Montreal to be buried and only his, and shawn's version along with Vince's has been shown to the WWE fans the past decade....why do you think Bret would not let the WWE publish his new book?....he sent it to them and they wanted to take out over 100 pages?....why?...because they have something to hide, not because they don't think that wrestling fans can't fucking read......Taker,Ron Simmons,Rick Rude,Mick Foley were all in the locker room that night in Montreal and all of them sided with Bret....watch the film wrestling with shadows, you can clearly hear Shawn sniffling like a little bitch, yet now he's a tough guy all of a sudden and was not afraid of Bret???....IT"S ON FILM SHAWN!!!!!!....preserved for eternity....you cryed like a fucking baby 'cuz you know you were wrong....a real man stands up with pride and no fear when he know's he right....and a real man is willing to take an ass kicking to back up what he feels is right win or lose and Shawn did not exhibit any of those qualities that night....Taker,Austin,Rock,Foley,Terry Funk and Harley Race have all backed up Bret on this subject and they're a helluva lot more respected than the guys standing up for shawn which are Hunter and Flair.....

 

[reddevil69]

First off, I think that Bret and HBK are evenly matched. I think they are the best of their styles and an excellent proof of the transition of wrestling. I think that it went from the new generation (hart), the transition (Michaels) and attitude (austin) and to take anything from these guys is wrong.

Like HBK or Hate him (same for hart) these guys are the best and depending on your preference you place one above the other. History tells us that HHH is better than both of them and that a crock of B.S but anyway. The screwjob was horrible. It consisted of three egos. It is my opinion that Vince is responsible because of a fear of what happen with Mudusa and what they even tried to do with the ECW championship shows they were not pass bringing rival companies champs on tv and disrespecting the title. That is Vince fear. Hart wanted to be a hero, a front. He got mad at Michaels for talking about sunny, yet he was cheating on his wife and i remember when Michaels said he tries to act like this guy that he s not. It was true. I think Michaels went along because he disliked Bret. It happened. Bret needs to let it go. Bret is holding a grudge and it pulling on him. He wasn't the great in WCW and he getting older. Hate corrodes the spirit.

Why does no one talk about the 1/2 year bret took after losing the title when they talk about this workload his was on. I remember Todd Petingill saying that Shawn was carrying a bigger workload than hart. I have a video where Michaels is wrestling and it he had only four nights off in the last 3 months. I say this saying they both had dirt. He was on steroids bret said where if you remember Michaels was stripped of the IC title because of steroids in 1993 leading to his feud with Scott Hall. Maybe that why Michaels was tore up. hart had some injuries if you can remember the Austin and HBK partnership was because of Hart torn knees so let stop with the 12 years 2 nights missed. What should of happen was Bret should of dropped it because he was leaving to whoever Vince wanted champ. Vince should of worked out a way for Michaels to win clearly. Michaels and HHH should of had nothing to do with the screw only the story. Stop blaming Michaels. Stop tearing both of them down.

Bret took 7 months off after 12 straight years in the WWE, not to mention the 7 years in stampede before that...what the hell are you referring to and what is your point?.....Shawn missed 2 months in 1993 for failing a drug test, and then he missed another 2 in 1994 leading into 1995 after getting beat up by 3,4,5 or 9 thugs, depending on which day shawn tells the story....then he lost his smile and didn't wrestle for another 4 months in 1997.....Kevin Nash said it on his new RF shoot dvd and i quote: "Shawn always found a way to get time off somehow..."....that is coming from one of shawns best friends to this day and the highest ranking member of the kliq from 1994-1996....the Shawn of today may be a very different guy but during the 90's he was not a very well liked nor respected member of that locker room.....another NaSH quote when asked about the Bruise Bros. wanting to beat up shawn in 1995....when asked why they wanted to his answer was "Shawn was being Shawn and they'd had enough of it"...he did not defend his friend 'cuz he knows that Shawn was a pain in the ass...you won't find nary a wrestler that had to threaten Bret Hart...and have you ever noticed how Shawn was hardly ever featured on many of the European tours?..Bret was the headliner on all the euro tours whether he had the title or not because he was the biggest draw the WWE had overseas along with Undertaker.....bottom line is that Bret carried himself with class during that time and Shawn was a troublemaker, instigator, and a backstabbing politician....there is a reason why respected men like Taker,Austin,Rude,the Rock, Hennig and Foley praise Bret Hart...yeah bret cheated on his wife, what place does that have being said on a televised WWE show?...NONE...that is private off the air events that you or i or anyone else has no business knowing about....we pay for a ticket to see wrestlers perform in character and that is all they are entitiled to provide us...we are not entitled to know about what they do in their hotels after the show....Shawn was completly out of line mentioning those events on TV....and FYI Shawn is the one who slept with Sunny, not Bret, and that is a fact..at least Bret wasn't stupid enought to shit where he lives and fuck one of his co-workers......and as for people saying Taker's best match was with HBK, i suggest you watch youtube and listen to the interview on there right now from 2003 with Undertaker from score network...when asked about who his toughest opponents were he names two guys...Foley and Hart, saying that he feels his best matches were with Bret Hart because it allowed him to show people that he could actually wrestle....

 

[beetle717]

YES Bret did sell more merchandise than HHH and HBK.....the two biggest merchandise sellers for the WWF in the 90's were Bret and Undertaker and that is a fact and there is more than enough info to support it... stop being a moron...house show attendance was higher for Jan/Feb/March of 1996 than it was for the rest of the year...who was champ all those months when it was higher? BRET HART....as soon as HBK got the belt, the WWF experienced one of the worst fiscal years in it's history because that was still the era of the champ being the focal point of the promotion and Shawn clearly could not carry the ball, especially up against WCW.........Dave Meltzer has all the facts, figures and statistics to prove it and he's in a far better position to comment on those types of things than you are, so quit bitching about Shawn and making shit up......if Bret was still a part of WWE the past decade he would still out sell HHH and HBK....why is it that both Shawns and HHH's dvd sets that were released in 2002 and 2003 have not sold near as much as Bret's dvd from 2005?....it is a fact that Undertaker's Tombstone dvd is the highest selling non-wrestlemania dvd in WWE history, Bret's dvd is 2nd.....HBK's new dvd comes out this month, if it outsells Bret's then you can say it did, until then stick to the facts or shut up about it!!!.....also Shawn is a self admitted former pain pill addict....i have two brand new shoot dvd interviews with Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, both were in the cliq and both are friends with Shawn and Hunter, and they both say they thought Bret was great....and they both admit that between 1994 and 1997, Shawn was out of his head on pills most of the time outside the ring.....so you are going to sit here and tell everyone that a dude who is wasted on pain mediction, and had to be carried to his hotel room every night because he was trashed, is going to have a more accurate account of what went on backstage and after the events than Bret Hart who recorded everything on a dictaphone the night the events took place, and never was out of his head on drugs?.....this revisionist bullshit is no different than Flair making those asinine comments in his book about Hart....Flair was not even in the WWE at that time this was going down!!!!!....he's going by what HHH and HBK have told him and because he's HHH's little buddy and has been sucking up to him since returning to the WWE in 2001, he's allowed to get away with it....he's another jerk who was drunk most of his career and i wouldn't take his word for shit....the guy pulls out his cock and waves it in a female airline attendants face and gets a warning...on the same flight Curt Hennig gets fired for starting a shoot match with Brock Lesnar???..last time i checked indecent exposure is illegal, is it not?.......this just proves that HHH has protected HBK and Flair and has allowed the facts of the screwjob in Montreal to be buried and only his, and shawn's version along with Vince's has been shown to the WWE fans the past decade....why do you think Bret would not let the WWE publish his new book?....he sent it to them and they wanted to take out over 100 pages?....why?...because they have something to hide, not because they don't think that wrestling fans can't fucking read......Taker,Ron Simmons,Rick Rude,Mick Foley were all in the locker room that night in Montreal and all of them sided with Bret....watch the film wrestling with shadows, you can clearly hear Shawn sniffling like a little bitch, yet now he's a tough guy all of a sudden and was not afraid of Bret???....IT"S ON FILM SHAWN!!!!!!....preserved for eternity....you cryed like a fucking baby 'cuz you know you were wrong....a real man stands up with pride and no fear when he know's he right....and a real man is willing to take an ass kicking to back up what he feels is right win or lose and Shawn did not exhibit any of those qualities that night....Taker,Austin,Rock,Foley,Terry Funk and Harley Race have all backed up Bret on this subject and they're a helluva lot more respected than the guys standing up for shawn which are Hunter and Flair.....

Decaffinate and listen, look at he numbers over the whole career of the hitman and HBK, numbers don't lie, yes there were years in the early 90's Bret sold more but as time went forward, HBK overtook that spot. Just for the record, how do you know Bret wasn't on drugs, I mean he admitted to using some drugs what would stop him from taking others?. AS far as Proof of HHH's Backstage BS you will have to do better than innuendo to prove it for real.


The fact is Bret was a wrestler under contract to the WWF at that point, he was told to lose, and like a whiny bitch refused.

Can you refute that last statement, because until you can Bret brought it on himself and that's a fact moran.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Decaffinate and listen, look at he numbers over the whole career of the hitman and HBK, numbers don't lie, yes there were years in the early 90's Bret sold more but as time went forward, HBK overtook that spot. Just for the record, how do you know Bret wasn't on drugs, I mean he admitted to using some drugs what would stop him from taking others?. AS far as Proof of HHH's Backstage BS you will have to do better than innuendo to prove it for real.


The fact is Bret was a wrestler under contract to the WWF at that point, he was told to lose, and like a whiny bitch refused.

Can you refute that last statement, because until you can Bret brought it on himself and that's a fact moran.

Read the facts that have been reported 1,000 times. Bret was not acting like a whiny bitch, he just didn't want to drop the belt to Michaels. Bret was willing to lose to mid carder Ken Shamrock if he had to, just not HBK, because HBK was never willing to job to him. Vince agreed to a DQ finish, then screwed Bret.

Also, if Bret was a whiny bitch, what was Michaels when he faked an injury to avoid losing to Bret at Wrestlemania?

 

[reddevil69]

Decaffinate and listen, look at he numbers over the whole career of the hitman and HBK, numbers don't lie, yes there were years in the early 90's Bret sold more but as time went forward, HBK overtook that spot. Just for the record, how do you know Bret wasn't on drugs, I mean he admitted to using some drugs what would stop him from taking others?. AS far as Proof of HHH's Backstage BS you will have to do better than innuendo to prove it for real.


The fact is Bret was a wrestler under contract to the WWF at that point, he was told to lose, and like a whiny bitch refused.

Can you refute that last statement, because until you can Bret brought it on himself and that's a fact moran.

Yeah i can refute it and drive a freight train through your logic...that's the difference between your posts and mine...my opinion is based on fact, yours is based on the fact that your an HBK mark....Yes Bret was under contract...with CREATIVE CONTROL FOR HIS LAST 30 DAYS....what do you not understand about that?...if your boss gives you a clause in your contract that says you have power to veto anything that you find unreasonable. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to do it as did Bret...if Vince did not like it tough shit,he shouldn't have agreed to the terms of the contract...do you work for a living?...do you have a superior you answer to?...if you do and you've got contractual graces in your terms of employment, you have the right to excercise them by law....what do you not get about Bret not wanting to put shawn over was not about doing your job, it was about giving back in kind the same disrespect he recieved from HBK..Bret agreed to put Shawn over until Shawn said, 'thanks , but i'm not willing to do the same for you'......what do you not get about the fact that all those respected names in the company that night:Taker,Austin,Rock,Rude,Foley,Simmons have all backed Bret's play and all made negative comments on HBK over the last decade....that implies to me that every one of them would have done the same thing in that same situation...take your head out of your ass!!...do you think for one second if Taker went to Shawn and said what Bret did, and shawn gave him the same response that Mark Calaway would have put up with that shit?....there's a reason why Taker had to threaten Shawn at Mania 14 prior to his match with Austin and it was because Shwan was being an unprofessional fuckwad that was hurting business...and i have the televised interview to prove that Taker did indeed have words with shawn so don't tell me it's not true...and i think somebody would have called Bret on being a pill popper by now don't you?....HBK's friends seem to be dishing out the dirt on him on shoot interviews this year.....and as far as Shawn selling more than bret, he never overtook Bret's sales worldwide EVER!!!!....he had a couple of months in the US and that was it....Bret consistently sold more merch than Shawn period....like i said, we'll see if his dvd sells more than Bret's 'cuz Bret's outsold his last one....Shawn's book didn't even crack the top 10 in the US...Bret's is number 2 in Canada and we'll see what happens when it is released in the states...and as far as HHH, it's not innuendo...Angle,Austin,Rock,Foley,Booker T,Lesnar,Jericho and Goldberg have all made references to HHH playing politics and hurting business....are you saying they are all liars?....

 

[Emmet]

This guy beetle hasnt a clue seriously. Bret Hart didnt want to job to shawn because like red devil said, shawn wouldnt return the favour. How hard is that for you to comprehend? Vince played the 2 of them against each other, like he did with Warrior and Hogan in the late 80s. Take any Taker match with Bret and then compare them with HBKs and Bret's matches with Taker win every time. Shawns best match with Taker was only good because it was a gimmick match. Bret didnt need gimmick matches with Taker, or anyone else to have a 5 star match.

 

[acma18]

Read the facts that have been reported 1,000 times. Bret was not acting like a whiny bitch, he just didn't want to drop the belt to Michaels. Bret was willing to lose to mid carder Ken Shamrock if he had to, just not HBK, because HBK was never willing to job to him. Vince agreed to a DQ finish, then screwed Bret.

Also, if Bret was a whiny bitch, what was Michaels when he faked an injury to avoid losing to Bret at Wrestlemania?

He may have embellished his injury, but he didn't fake it. This might just be me, but for a guy so concerned with his on screen charcter as you put it, i don't see him crying on TV over a fake injury. Although i'm sure bret would tell you otherwise.

I'd still love for anyone to tell me what they expected shawn to do in this situation. They are tons of things Vince could have done. He had the ability to change the opponent, not shawn. Even Bret could have lost the championship on Raw, but he had creative control and wouldn't do that either. Someone had to force the hand and it happened to be Vince with Shawn helping. Its been 10 years, both guys are different people now. They're over it, we should be too.

Gimmick or not, taker has still stated that Hell in the Cell was his favorite match. He's also talked about Shawn and his ability as a wrestler in a very positive light so i don't believe Taker doesn't respect Shawn in the ring because of outside BS.

 

[Emmet]

Bret said he would forfeit the title on RAW, HBK could have won it that night in a tournament or whtever. Vince just didnt want Bret to leave his company with his head held high. He didnt want it to happen so he screwed him over.

I just watched the interview with Taker where he states his best matches where with Bret on youtube

 

[beetle717]

Yeah i can refute it and drive a freight train through your logic...that's the difference between your posts and mine...my opinion is based on fact, yours is based on the fact that your an HBK mark....Yes Bret was under contract...with CREATIVE CONTROL FOR HIS LAST 30 DAYS....what do you not understand about that?...if your boss gives you a clause in your contract that says you have power to veto anything that you find unreasonable. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT to do it as did Bret...if Vince did not like it tough shit,he shouldn't have agreed to the terms of the contract...do you work for a living?...do you have a superior you answer to?...if you do and you've got contractual graces in your terms of employment, you have the right to excercise them by law....what do you not get about Bret not wanting to put shawn over was not about doing your job, it was about giving back in kind the same disrespect he recieved from HBK..Bret agreed to put Shawn over until Shawn said, 'thanks , but i'm not willing to do the same for you'......what do you not get about the fact that all those respected names in the company that night:Taker,Austin,Rock,Rude,Foley,Simmons have all backed Bret's play and all made negative comments on HBK over the last decade....that implies to me that every one of them would have done the same thing in that same situation...take your head out of your ass!!...do you think for one second if Taker went to Shawn and said what Bret did, and shawn gave him the same response that Mark Calaway would have put up with that shit?....there's a reason why Taker had to threaten Shawn at Mania 14 prior to his match with Austin and it was because Shwan was being an unprofessional fuckwad that was hurting business...and i have the televised interview to prove that Taker did indeed have words with shawn so don't tell me it's not true...and i think somebody would have called Bret on being a pill popper by now don't you?....HBK's friends seem to be dishing out the dirt on him on shoot interviews this year.....and as far as Shawn selling more than bret, he never overtook Bret's sales worldwide EVER!!!!....he had a couple of months in the US and that was it....Bret consistently sold more merch than Shawn period....like i said, we'll see if his dvd sells more than Bret's 'cuz Bret's outsold his last one....Shawn's book didn't even crack the top 10 in the US...Bret's is number 2 in Canada and we'll see what happens when it is released in the states...and as far as HHH, it's not innuendo...Angle,Austin,Rock,Foley,Booker T,Lesnar,Jericho and Goldberg have all made references to HHH playing politics and hurting business....are you saying they are all liars?....

You talk about facts, you're on big boy. Bret's contract said "reasonable" creative control, now let's see you how your logic deals with leaving with the company's top award in the hands of some one who just had they're last match.

Here is business logic 101 for you, let me know where you get confused. You put your faith in the proven wrestler, you do not show the door to profitable commodities like personalities, Vinces decision is proven good by the fact that Bret couldn't cut it without the WWE machine behind him. After all look at WCW after Bret arrived. Don't give me any crap about Hogan, Nash or politics because the cream rises to the top no matter what, and if Bret was half as good or profitable as you say there would have been no stopping him. He was a WWF made star and couldn't replicate the success outside of it.

AS for the drugs there genius, Bret himself has said he did them, I don't need more than that.

Your dvd sales comment is just plain stupid, Bret has a DVD after several years of not having one of course it's gonna sell. Shawn's won't sell as well because they seem to release on for him every year or so, for those of us that understand logic it's called supply and demand, There is a much higher supply of HBK DVD's out there than Bret's so the one Bret DVD becomes a commodity compared to the half dozen or so HBK dvd's.

AS for the wrestlers in interviews claiming HHH's politics, I believe there is probably some truth to it, but you need to look at the perspective of it, there are 2 sides to every story. I'm sure HHH would say he pushes for what he feels will benefit WWE.

The same thing with Bret, you want to push for corporate responsibility, and I think there should be responsibility on a personal level, Bret needs to recognize that he was the largest contributing factor to the screwjob, he forced VKM's Hand, so Vince made a plan and Bret was the collateral damage, rightfully so, he after all did refuse to do his job.

 

[reddevil69]

You talk about facts, you're on big boy. Bret's contract said "reasonable" creative control, now let's see you how your logic deals with leaving with the company's top award in the hands of some one who just had they're last match.

Here is business logic 101 for you, let me know where you get confused. You put your faith in the proven wrestler, you do not show the door to profitable commodities like personalities, Vinces decision is proven good by the fact that Bret couldn't cut it without the WWE machine behind him. After all look at WCW after Bret arrived. Don't give me any crap about Hogan, Nash or politics because the cream rises to the top no matter what, and if Bret was half as good or profitable as you say there would have been no stopping him. He was a WWF made star and couldn't replicate the success outside of it.

AS for the drugs there genius, Bret himself has said he did them, I don't need more than that.

Your dvd sales comment is just plain stupid, Bret has a DVD after several years of not having one of course it's gonna sell. Shawn's won't sell as well because they seem to release on for him every year or so, for those of us that understand logic it's called supply and demand, There is a much higher supply of HBK DVD's out there than Bret's so the one Bret DVD becomes a commodity compared to the half dozen or so HBK dvd's.

AS for the wrestlers in interviews claiming HHH's politics, I believe there is probably some truth to it, but you need to look at the perspective of it, there are 2 sides to every story. I'm sure HHH would say he pushes for what he feels will benefit WWE.

The same thing with Bret, you want to push for corporate responsibility, and I think there should be responsibility on a personal level, Bret needs to recognize that he was the largest contributing factor to the screwjob, he forced VKM's Hand, so Vince made a plan and Bret was the collateral damage, rightfully so, he after all did refuse to do his job.

you seem to be forgetting that Bret turned down WCW originally for alot less money from Vince...Vince repaid that loyalty to him by fucking him over...and Bret losing by Dq in Montreal was reasonable creative control...and do you honestly think that Bret would have fucked off the next night with the title and try to put the final nail in the coffin of the company that his own brother had to work for for antoher 3 years?...not to mention fuck over his friends like Taker,Foley,Austin, and the Rock?....there is a reason those men still speak respectfully about Bret and never have nothing but positive things to say about him....a respected leader like Taker would not condone all this tripe you keep mentioning that Bret apparently was doing....like i said before they all took side with Bret, not Vince or shawn....and as far as dvd supply and demand if HBK has such a loyal following his fans should be snapping them up in droves...the WWE has produced 4 Undertaker dvds and his is still the highest selling non wrestlemania dvd...what point do you think you are making?...Bret's sold more because he is more popular worldwide....and your WCW point is useless because it was politics..i have Kevin Nash on dvd saying once again that they completly fucked up the booking on Bret....Hoagn vetoed everything they tried to do with him...if you think that a properly pushed Hulk vs. Hitman match would not have been huge then i have some swamp land i'd like to sell you.....you think HBK would have done any better?...i sincerely doubt it and he would not have been offered the kind of money Bret got because he was not as big a star....

 

[Emmet]

Brets contract also didnt start to early december, he could have had another 3,4,5,6 matches to put over anyone he wanted to. It wasnt like November 9th was his last day working for Vince.

Bret sucked in WCW because WCW sucked, Bret failed because they didnt know what to do with him. Bret says in his book that Nash held him down alot, he says he doesnt know if Hogan held him back in WCW.

 

[MonsterMash]

Although Bret did have almost a month between Survivor Series and when his contract expired, Vince did make a smart business move. Why would he continue to put someone on TV and promote them when he knows full well that they will be going to work for the competition? Why would Vince give Bret the TV time when he knows that he will never get a return on his investment?

So Vince did double-cross Bret. I remember something Mr. Burns said on The Simpsons once - "Friendship, family, and religion. These are the three demons you must slay in order to succeed in business." I would think Vince has clearly mastered this. Both Vince and Bret had their own best interests in mind during this scenario, if that's what you want to call it. Both Vince and Bret were stubborn as hell, and naturally, the boss is going to get his way in the end.

 

[kenfuu]

I feel that this is basically more Vince's fault then anyone else, everyone knows Hart was not the person who would walk out on a company with their belt. And as its been said basically everyone except HHH was behind Bret and Rick Rude left the WWF after this because he did not want to be associated with Shawn. And WCW had no clue what to do with Bret when they got him, they had this huge opportunity and fucked it up, probably because of Hogan and Nash and its not the first time Hogan screwed Bret, the hole Wrestlemania 9 thing, guess who was the one who thought he was to big to win the tag titiles that day from IRS with Brutus Beefcake and had to find away to win the world title? oh right Hogan. And yes that's ture if you read Shawn's book he talks about this and it was before him and Bret hated each other and he felt bad for Bret who got pushed aside for the ultimate asshole in Hogan.

 

[BRandonkin]

Bret took 7 months off after 12 straight years in the WWE, not to mention the 7 years in stampede before that...what the hell are you referring to and what is your point?.....Shawn missed 2 months in 1993 for failing a drug test, and then he missed another 2 in 1994 leading into 1995 after getting beat up by 3,4,5 or 9 thugs, depending on which day shawn tells the story....then he lost his smile and didn't wrestle for another 4 months in 1997.....Kevin Nash said it on his new RF shoot dvd and i quote: "Shawn always found a way to get time off somehow..."....that is coming from one of shawns best friends to this day and the highest ranking member of the kliq from 1994-1996....the Shawn of today may be a very different guy but during the 90's he was not a very well liked nor respected member of that locker room.....another NaSH quote when asked about the Bruise Bros. wanting to beat up shawn in 1995....when asked why they wanted to his answer was "Shawn was being Shawn and they'd had enough of it"...he did not defend his friend 'cuz he knows that Shawn was a pain in the ass...you won't find nary a wrestler that had to threaten Bret Hart...and have you ever noticed how Shawn was hardly ever featured on many of the European tours?..Bret was the headliner on all the euro tours whether he had the title or not because he was the biggest draw the WWE had overseas along with Undertaker.....bottom line is that Bret carried himself with class during that time and Shawn was a troublemaker, instigator, and a backstabbing politician....there is a reason why respected men like Taker,Austin,Rude,the Rock, Hennig and Foley praise Bret Hart...yeah bret cheated on his wife, what place does that have being said on a televised WWE show?...NONE...that is private off the air events that you or i or anyone else has no business knowing about....we pay for a ticket to see wrestlers perform in character and that is all they are entitiled to provide us...we are not entitled to know about what they do in their hotels after the show....Shawn was completly out of line mentioning those events on TV....and FYI Shawn is the one who slept with Sunny, not Bret, and that is a fact..at least Bret wasn't stupid enought to shit where he lives and fuck one of his co-workers......and as for people saying Taker's best match was with HBK, i suggest you watch youtube and listen to the interview on there right now from 2003 with Undertaker from score network...when asked about who his toughest opponents were he names two guys...Foley and Hart, saying that he feels his best matches were with Bret Hart because it allowed him to show people that he could actually wrestle....

Dude be cool. First it is the opinion of wrestling obeservers who said that bout Undertaker, so chill. We all know HBK was hitting sunny (way to go HBK). We all know michaels was a pain. that was backstage too partner so are talking backstage or not pal. We had some people that have said things bout hart like Hogan, savage, Bishoff and so forth that said he was a pain. I admitted that both have egos so they both were at fault. Motives were different, yet similar. Michaels wanted to be the big name in the company, Hart wanted to look like a hero, BOTH ARE EGOS TRIPS. PRIDE. Sin to God.

Was Micahel not beat up by men in New York. Was he not suspended. Did he not break his back. Was his knee not hurt. I mean come on. It sound like he was legit and hart was using steroids to get by where Micahels was suspended was my point many that maybe Michael was more prone to injury since that is what got hart by. HHH admitted Micahels was a prick. But if Micahels was so bad, Nash would of step back. I mean he said in the interview HBK was suspended for steroids too. So what. Sunny said he was jumped in Syracuce. Doctors said his back was broken. Go Figure. I can pull this stuff out all night kid. He was gone several time legitmately even if he did not do the 12 years straight. Hart did not take the risk michaels did either. One move took both of them out. Taker backdrop on HBK, Goldbergs Kick. I believe God healed one because one got over it and repented while one is holding on the grude

And my issue how people try to make hart an angel. "so he cheated on his wife" is a characteristic of dishonesty and lack of trust. hmmm. Maybe Bret would took the title to WCW, I never thought of that until now. Thank dude. I stand behind McMahon now all the way. If you do that to your wife and kids, what the difference between your job.

 

[BRandonkin]

Read the facts that have been reported 1,000 times. Bret was not acting like a whiny bitch, he just didn't want to drop the belt to Michaels. Bret was willing to lose to mid carder Ken Shamrock if he had to, just not HBK, because HBK was never willing to job to him. Vince agreed to a DQ finish, then screwed Bret.

Also, if Bret was a whiny bitch, what was Michaels when he faked an injury to avoid losing to Bret at Wrestlemania?

Michael job to Hart several times. When Micahels was IC champ he jobbed. When Micahels was in the ladder match he job. As a rocker he job. Michaels was never better than hart. Michaels has only one match over hart, yet he never job to hart. Get off it.

 

[Emmet]

Michaels jobbed to Bret when they were friends back in the late 80s-early 90s, from about 1994 onwards HBK wouldnt job for Bret cos he didnt like him

 

[acma18]

I never once said Shawn Michaels was the undertakers toughest opponent. All i said was that the undertaker, in that same interview that you referenced, said that the hell in the cell match was his most memorable.

No one on here, from what i can see, is trying to make Shawn look like a saint. Some of us are just capable of looking at both sides of the whole thing. Who's better, shawn vs. bret, is nothing but an opinion debate. Its never going to get solved and no one who has already decided is going to change their mind.

 

[joejoe]

Well, Call my a conspricy theory guy if you will but in my opinion....The whole thing was a work.

A work that only Bret Hart and Vince McMahon were in on.

Look, Bret had a documentry camera crew with him while this whole thing was going on. And come on you want to tell me that you think Vince wouldn't have known that Bret was going to be wearing a mic? Please.

Plus this was the perfect way to go out for Bret AND help Vince too. Vince gets lots of publicity as a horrible bad boss that he can use for his character and Bret can use this to launch his career in WCW for how he got screwed.

If you listen to Brets interviews while he bashes Vince in some ways he also compliments him. Even in those "Shoot" interviews Bret always says things along the lines of "Well WCW never had a Vince McMahon to put everythign together"

If Bret hated Vince so much he wouldn't have come back to The Hall of Fame or have made the DVD set or have made that taped apperance on Raw a little while back.

This work was the greatest in wrestling history and I'm sure one day will be reveiled.

I don't think Shawn or Earl knew about it I thnk Bret and Vince were the only 2 people in the world who knew about it or still do know about it today.

Think about it.... It makes sense. Bret was a character and he knew that and still does. All of the wrestlers are characters on TV. It was time for his character to move on and this was a great way to launch his character into another area of the wrestling world.

Losing in Canada wasn't the big deal, Bret had lost in Canada plenty of times before. This "Screwjob" never was that.

It was a work. One that fooled everybody and helped Vince McMahon, the man that helped make The Hitman. And a work that should have helped Bret Hart, but WCW decided to F up his debut and his Character.

Bret Hart was a great entertainer and wrestler. But he was also a loyal employee to Vince McMahon and Vince was a loyal Boss to Bret.