Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Just seemed out of place. It took the realism and flushed it.
WWE RAW LD 7/11/2011 - This Fire Burns
- Thread starter FunKay the Inevitable
- Start date
Just seemed out of place. It took the realism and flushed it.
Do you not see why this is a problem? He's a HEEL. Heel's are supposed to be booed, not cheered.
It's a very sad day in wrestling when the people cheer for the bad guys for being "edgy" but boo the good guys for being too "straight laced." I understand what Bret Hart must have felt like in his last year or two with the WWF.
I think all signs of realism were gone when CM Punk started physically pushing his boss and then reading off his ridiculous demands...
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
I didn't say it was realistic, I said I felt that way. The feeling was there. Personally, that all went down the toilet as soon as Cena marched out, acting like a 12 year old.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Anti-Hero. Punk has became an anti-hero.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
93 pages in someone finally figured it all out.
Mac Attack
I'm neat.
I was looking for a JGlass Nexus shirt on T.V Didn't see one.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
I never viewed Cena getting booed instead of cheered as much of a problem, so no.
If heels were never cheered and faces were never booed, Stone Cold Steve Austin as we know him never exists. That is not a world I want to live in.
Sometimes having mixed/neutral roles is what makes certain characters so compelling (like Austin, and like Punk now). When it's done correctly, you have someone like Punk with thousands of people in the palm of his hand hanging on every word he says like he's a God, when it isn't done correctly you've got Vince Russo in TNA basically.
I see no issue with Punk being cheered. Alot of the things he's saying on the mic are exactly how a lot of current fans feel about Vince and his politics, which is why he's getting cheered so much. And the WWE knows this and plays it up, in the same exact way they do with John Cena and his constant mixed reactions everywhere he goes.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
I detect sarcasm, as I stated that before I even got banned for spamming; but you have Vince Russo in your signature with the words "Wrestling Matters", so I can't really tell.
Well no shit he's the anti-hero, the question is why. Why is CM Punk taking this anti-hero roll now that his contract is about to expire? Do you think this adds more to their title match this Sunday, or do you think it takes something away?
The interesting thing about it is, even if you do root for CM Punk, then that means you're rooting for the WWE Title to be effectively stolen from the company.
Well then, in the words of the Jedi, your feelings were betraying you. It never had a realistic feel because CM Punk was making the whole negotiation into an entire farce. The emotions were high, if that's what you were getting at, and I would agree that Cena's little jokes at Vince's expense were out of place at this time, but I don't think it derailed the promo, as he got right back on track when he called out CM Punk and said he was a hypocrite.
Agree with this. Also, some people in this thread seem to be under the impression that the WWE is still intent on Punk getting booed everywhere he goes. That hasn't been the case since he starting cutting show opening promos that involved him making snow angels. Come on, guys.
The most interesting thing about Cena are his epic main events that involve mixed reactions. That's what turned me onto the guy in the first place. Why fight what's coming in Chicago? Why not let Punk throw everything at the wall and see what sticks? Is there anything to lose here?
Pretty certain I'm not.
You say that, but all evidence points to the fact that you are. Now we can do this for the whole of this debate, or you can concede that you were wrong. Your pick.
And Sheamus has two.
What's your point?
My point is that upper-midcarders don't normally win three world titles. That shows that WWE possibly sees both Punk and Sheamus as more than upper-midcarders. They may not have shown it recently, but it doesn't mean they don't see it that way.
I'm guessing you missed the bit were I said "not just from the IWC" in regards to the great reactions he's getting. Do you have a problem with selective reading as well as selective hearing? It's not just the IWC who cares, it's the fans who don't really know what happens backstage caring too. Their reactions will tell you that.
So what you've done here is take a section of wrestling fans, labelled them "people" and implied that that they find simple concepts difficult to understand. You have then wrongly put me in that group.
Clever. I'm still not buying it.
Sean Valjean
Lets Bitch About This Thing We Love
Punk has become the Deadpool of the WWE.
I sort of misspoke. I said that under the assumption that CM Punk was to be playing a traditional heel role, but I'd be willing to bet that is not what the WWE wants him to do right now. The question that interests me is why are they having CM Punk play this anti-hero role when his contract is about to expire and he plans on stealing the WWE Championship once it does?
How is this a sad day? it shows the evolution in wrestling when people finally stop accepting whats handed to them but instead accept what they like
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
Not against smark favorites he hasn't.
This would be easier to debate if we could somehow compile a list of everyone he's wrestled in his hometown, separate his ''smark favorite'' opponents and compare pops/heat. Someone do this for us please ha.
It's annoying how you seem to think people who aren't huge Cena fans are smarky. I recall Edge out popping Cena during that feud elsewhere as well. Not every time sure, but it happened. Were those all smark cities as well? So when/if Punk returns and gets a massive pop will it be only because it's a smarky city?
Well then what the fuck is the circumstance for other shows in cities that aren't in smarky territory and Cena gets booed or a heel gets cheered? Is that the same for every area in the country? Because if it is just the smarks being closer to the camera like you're saying, then who is it booing Cena and cheering heels any other time? You're saying that the ONLY times that a heel can out pop Cena is in a smarky city. That's bullshit and you can't be taken seriously with beliefs like that. Also, just ignoring the fact of all the kids and families I see in the front rows that Cena, Kofi, Rey and other faces slap hands with an interact with at every show.
I haven't been to a show in some time, and not recently enough to understand the diffence really between marks and smarks but I know what I see on television and I see plenty of younger kids and families pretty up close.
I never said he out popped him because of fucking cameras and seating, I said he out popped him period. You're the one using bullshit excuses as to why, I was just stating the fact that he did out pop him. You're using two different bullshit excuses here: The city is overwhelmingly smark, enough so that they will cohesively boo Cena the face and boo Punk the heel. Then you also say that it's only because of the camera angles and seating. Which is it? If you use the first excuse then you're admitting that Punk did indeed out pop Cena. If you use the second excuse then you're saying that it only seemed that he out popped Cena because of seating...but if it the crowd majority were smarks why bring up the seating bullshit...they'd almost all be smarks.
Dude, how the fuck can you even have any pride in what you're saying? I never once mentioned the fucking seating, you did. My proof is in the show. They aren't exact words when you were the one to use them. You're supposed to be better than this. My proof is that the ENTIRE arena made more noise for Punk than they did for Cena, fuck seating.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Oh, so I don't know how I was feeling prior to Cena's arrival? I think I do, actually.
It wasn't a farce. It was Punk breaking McMahon down. Punk was taking Vince apart, piece by piece, making him do whatever Punk demanded. That's what was happening. I know it's hard to identify an adult-oriented storyline in wrestling today, but that's what we were seeing. And, for me, that was ruined, and brought back down to Disneyland, by involving Cena, and his 5th grade sense of humor.
Whatever. His jokes stunk, had no place out there, and it hurt the segment (for me). I don't blame Cena, I blame those who are seemingly terrified of letting Cena behave like an adult for more than 40 seconds.
Because it adds legitimacy to his rage against the machine. As if the fact that he deeply feels most of this and speaks with extreme conviction isn't enough.
My guess is because they clearly already have a handshake deal with Punk similar to the ones they have with guys like Jericho, who leave and come back with no hard feelings all the time. My guess is Punk told Vince that he absolutely plans on returning after taking some time off. That or who knows, he could have actually went ahead and signed a new deal and they aren't talking about it at all to keep up the hype for the title match on Sunday.
I seriously had goosebumps during that closing segment man, I think I need to watch it again. I can't wait for the PPV now.
The Dragon Saga
Whale in a Teardrop
Why not? CM Punk has the talent to do it, he can manipulate peoples thoughts and perceptions, hes always done that. Maybe its because in some ways, he spoke the truth and the fans realize this and because of that they stand beside him, as everything he says and supposedly stands for is what the fans want.
Truer words have never been spoken.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
I wonder who Punk is going to main event wrestlemania against?