Wrestlemania failed on every level from a fans perspective.

[Remix]

That's just fucking dandy but that doesn't help us to make comparisons now does it?

I'm sorry a private company not disclosing financial information is making things inconvenient.

All in all it's pretty steady from 1999 - 2012.

Not really Merch sales went up through the attitude era, declined after it ended along with Raw's ratings. After Cena went to Raw they increased year on year until the financial crash in '09 where things have been stable.

or I think he's a jackass. I'm getting pretty tired of you too.

The graphs don't paint a pretty picture for you do they?

1. I typed an extra 0. Hang on just a moment while I get the nails and hammer. Are you this desperate to make a point?

No, I'm just mocking you.

2. You're still clinging to ratings that show a 4 year decrease in ratings while Cena is the captain of the ship. Blame it on benoit if you want. Blaming Benoit for 2012's ratings is beyond silly but if it makes you feel better about the product you have at it.

No, it really isn't. The figures are consistent with a section of fans leaving the company that won't be coming back any time soon. That's what happened when Wrestling stopped being "cool" after the Attitude Era, and it's what happened in 2007 because of Benoit. The four year decrease I concede.

This is seriously my last post for now.. honest.

Sure it is.

 

[Rayne]

Hippie. Stop hanging out with Todd.

I gotta admit, I miss the little fucker's visits. He actually has the potential to turn out alright if he can get over his insecurities.

 

[Slyfox696]

Let's see here...

There's no net income for anything before 2003.

Because the WWE wasn't a publicly owned company, which means they didn't have to file their financial information with the SEC.

EDIT: I read what you said to Noun...why do we need information before 2003 to compare the WWE before and after John Cena? Cena didn't become a big merch seller until 2004 and didn't become a main-eventer/top guy until 2005.

Merchandising really hasn't changed much.

$79 million in Fiscal 2005 compared to $138 million in 2008 isn't changing much?

Live events revenue seems to be up while attendance is down. With out Net Income it's pretty meaningless though.

Revenue is up and that's all that matters if we're just talking about Cena.

The PPV buyrates I'll look over later because there's a lot of years and PPV's and what not and I'm running low on time I can spend here with this crap atm.

I've averaged them together for you already.

All in all it doesn't look like any of this information proves anything one way or another but I'll look at it a little more in depth when I have more time.

You're welcome.

I think you're an even bigger jackass than they are.

You're probably right about that. But at least I'm right about Cena. Which I'm far more concerned about.

That's not what you said

Yes it is.

That may be, but 2003 is a pretty big fucking difference than 2013. You have to factor in DVR, internet streaming, an exponentially larger cable channel selection, a large increase in NFL popularity, oversaturation of the wrestling market and an economic collapse.

But you knew all of that, right?

so I did and then you went "We don't know how the ratings would be with out Cena though!"

And we don't.

So I showed you what they would be - and that's exactly the same for that time period. Is it 1000% foolproof? No. They are still facts though.

Yes and the fact most grass is green is still fact, but both facts are irrelevant to our discussion.

2. You're still clinging to ratings that show a 4 year decrease in ratings

And you're still claiming this, despite it being provably untrue.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Stopping This Thread In Two Statements
​

1) Just because John Cena doesn't draw you, doesn't mean he doesn't draw.
2) The question of whether John Cena is being used to the best of his drawing capacity is entirely separate from the discussion of if he is currently the WWE's best draw.

It's nice outside. I'm gonna go throw some frisbees.

LIAR! It's nasty as hell, cold, rainy and I am not sure the sun still exists it is so dark. That's a fact!

I thought this comment would be a way of mocking this discussing. I think I'm wrong now but hopefully someone gets a laugh out if it.

This thread is now about Cheese. Why? because this thread failed on so many levels. The Original Poster is a fucking idiot Cena hater who deserves to be in the prison.

If the point of these threads are to trigger discussion and get hits for the forum, this thread is a smashing success. Sedated is a bigger draw than CM Punk.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Is this proof that Brock drew shit? Or the AE bubble bursting?

 

[Remix]

Both.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Can I play devil's advocate? I do think there is some validity to Edge being over during the Hardy/Lita fiasco. I mean thats what got him noticed. It gave his character this sleaze ball angle, and quite frankly before that he was just a generic 'I-am-a-bad-guy' heel and sucked ass.

I would credit that over his cash in at the EC over Cena.

 

[Bernkastel]

Yarly and you're imagining things wrong.

5/28 – 6/1 3.2 1.42 0.92 2.34
June 4-8 3.8 1.43 1.0 2.63
June 11-15 ~3.8 1.7 1.08 2.4 (4.6)
June 18-22 4.1 (6.6) 1.6 (2.7) 1.2 2.4
June 25-29 ~~3.83 1.78 1.2 2.4 (4.9)
July 2-6 3.7 1.51 1.07 2.64
July 9-13 3.35 1.37 1.01 2.5 (4.9)
July 16-20 3.4 1.34 1.17 2.63
July 23-27 3.37 1.31 1.13 2.6 (5.1)
7/30 – 8/3 ~~~2.51 1.3 1.07 2.62
August 6-10 3.81 1.49 0.99 2.4 (4.6)
August 13-17 3.8 1.5 1.05 2.4
August 20-24 3.8 1.7 1.05 2.2

The June 25-29 ~~3.83 is the benoit episode. We could potentially say there was a link between what happened with Benoit and a ratings decline, that's despite the fact that the show the week after benoit drew fine but it's still possible... Never the less a month later the ratings were right back to where they were, the following show after the last one I posted was a 3.15 that aired on scifi so I didn't include it. Also the 2.55 says there was an error with neilson so that number is likely off.

There's zero evidence to show that Benoit had any lasting ratings effect.


September 17-21 3.3 1.4 1.08 2.7
September 24-28 3.4 1.1 0.91 2.5
October 1-5 3.2 1.2 ++1.06 2.5
October 8-12 2.8 1.2 1.05 2.6
October 15-19 3.3 1.2 0.95 2.7
October 22-26 3.3 1.4 0.98 2.6
10/29 – 11/2 3.5 1.6 0.99 2.8
November 5-9 3.75 1.2 1.04 2.89
November 12-16 3.5 1.4 1.05 2.7
November 19-23 3.5 1.3 1.0 2.8
November 26-30 3.54 1.4 1.1 2.6
December 3-7 3.24 +++0.6 1.1 2.6
December 10-14 *@4.1 1.3 1.16 2.7
December 17-21 3.48 1.26 1.1 (1.7)
December 24-28 +*2.5 #^0.9 1.1 #^2.5
December 31 *+2.6

I believe Cena was injured at this show "October 1-5 3.2" With the exception of the week right after which for whatever reason drew a 2.8, they stayed about the same while Cena was out injured. The ratings don't show any real link to a decrease in viewership when we compare Cena's last couple of weeks there to when he was out. Now I'll even be generous, let's say the 2.8 rating WAS because of Cena not being there, why not? I'll play along. So it took the fans exactly 1 week to get over Cena not being there? Once again the numbers show that Cena is not actually a draw. We obviously shouldn't put any weight in the two holiday shows, one of which was pre taped and one of which was a tribute to the troops. The holiday episodes bomb almost every year, I just included them to fill out there year. The numbers actually show mostly an INCREASE in ratings when compared to the last 3 weeks of Cena on the show. I wont be that way though and all in all the numbers just show no real difference with Cena there or gone, any increase in ratings is small and not worth dwelling on.

You guys can give your opinions all you want about how Benoit caused ratings to dive, it's just not true though. At worst he caused a month long slump.

So we aren't factoring in things like economic collapse has driven the price of tickets up, causing attendance records to drop, that fans can now Tivo RAW and watch it at their leisure instead of watching it live, and the fact that fans can stream the show online or watch matches almost immediately afterwards on sites like Youtube and Dailymotion? And you aren't even accounting for merchandise and revenue generated by advertisements and charity work... mostly done by Cena. But no, television ratings clearly mean everything, especially when WWE has no direct competition, and if they do go down it's means that Cena can't draw worth shit.

You can't get anymore delusional. Television ratings are but one piece of that "what makes a superstar a draw" pie.

 

[KnowMyRole-ShutYourMouth]

Jesus Christ it's gone this far? The argument is going no where for both sides guys

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

How do you measure a "@" in TV ratings?

 

[Bernkastel]

Wasnt Hogan and SNME doing like, 9's on some of their shows?

Damn that Austin and attitude era going to 7's and 6's. Right into the toilet I tell ya! his fault and ONLY his fault, nothing else! He sux!

I thought it was common knowledge that guys like Austin and Rock were absolute shit draws compared to Hogan.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

How do you measure a "@" in TV ratings?

It is the latest in internet abbreviations for taking a finger up your asshole.

And I just want to provide this quick PSA: Men at or over age 35 really need to consider going to their doctor and asking him or her to shove their lubed and gloved index finger up your butt in order to check for prostate cancer.

It may save your life..

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

It is the latest in internet abbreviations for taking a finger up your asshole.

And I just want to provide this quick PSA: Men at or over age 35 really need to consider going to their doctor and asking him or her to shove their lubed and gloved index finger up your butt in order to check for prostate cancer.

It may save your life..

Pssshhhaww! Sedated does it to induce his WZ posts.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I thought it was common knowledge that guys like Austin and Rock were absolute shit draws compared to Hogan.

Missing my point. None to worry, there has been much of that today.

I dont even know what is still happening here. The two most ppv buys, and the highest grossing events ever. Easily the most money made over a ten year span. Five straight years of selling out football stadiums.

also, claiming WM23 was because of the battle of the billionaiers is so crackpotted, you sound like some wild anti-cena religous cult.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

LIAR! It's nasty as hell, cold, rainy and I am not sure the sun still exists it is so dark. That's a fact!

I thought this comment would be a way of mocking this discussing. I think I'm wrong now but hopefully someone gets a laugh out if it.



If the point of these threads are to trigger discussion and get hits for the forum, this thread is a smashing success. Sedated is a bigger draw than CM Punk.

I gotta agree with GSB here... It's shitty weather outside.

 

[Bernkastel]

Missing my point. None to worry, there has been much of that today.

I dont even know what is still happening here. The two most ppv buys, and the highest grossing events ever. Easily the most money made over a ten year span. Five straight years of selling out football stadiums.

also, claiming WM23 was because of the battle of the billionaiers is so crackpotted, you sound like some wild anti-cena religous cult.

I got your point, and I was being facetious.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

You people are all wrong. Clearly WM23 drew well because of Melina vs. Ashley and Kane vs. Khali

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I gotta agree with GSB here... It's shitty weather outside.

True, I don't know what's more ironic, the fact that a guy named "Rayne" doesn't know anything about the weather or a guy named "Sedated" writes like he's on crystal meth.

Seriously, I don't know what the word ironic means so if someone could answer this question for me it may help.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

True, I don't know what's more ironic, the fact that a guy named "Rayne" doesn't know anything about the weather or a guy named "Sedated" writes like he's on crystal meth.

Seriously, I don't know what the word ironic means so if someone could answer this question for me it may help.

I see you're being Fecestious.

 

[Slyfox696]

It's amazing how much better and more entertaining this thread has gotten since Sedated quit posting in it. Not to mention so much more intelligent.

 

[Remix]

Missing my point. None to worry, there has been much of that today.

I dont even know what is still happening here. The two most ppv buys, and the highest grossing events ever. Easily the most money made over a ten year span. Five straight years of selling out football stadiums.

also, claiming WM23 was because of the battle of the billionaiers is so crackpotted, you sound like some wild anti-cena religous cult.

That's probably right. You also have to take into account that cities are literally paying WWE to bring 'Mania to their town.

Here's a more interesting question than "is Cena over?". In spite of ratings being lower than they were in the last notable boom period, is WWE experiencing one now?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I see you're being Fecestious.

Not true, I haven't pooped all day.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Have we deduced for the mentally underprivileged that Cena is over yet?


Now you guys are just boasting.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Not true, I haven't pooped all day.

Might wanna get that checked out. Seems Sedated has his head up his ass. Maybe he wouldn't mind helping...

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

So, did WrestleMania fail then, or what? I thought I was close to finding the answer before there was a celebration of all the classic Cena/ratings arguments.