Vince and Creative team humiliate Mickie James on Smackdown (Petition Link Included)

[Tenta]

Ya, I agree with FTS here. They sign with the company and they know what they're getting themselves into. Sure, the WWE might be the best company out there, but thery aren't being forced to sign with them. Vince may not always treat them great, but I don't see why there needs to be a petition over it. This same type of treatment occurs to women in all sorts of different facets of life.

Really? What "facet of life" have you ever heard someone refer to a woman as a "fat pig" on so many occasions? If this were an isolated incident, I wouldn't mind, but the fact is, this has been going on for over fifteen fucking years, guys!

As to the claims that they sign on... Do you think that if Vince told them this at the point of their first meeting, they'd still be on board? I doubt Vince ever told Rhonda she was going to be called fat so much. I know for a fact Molly Holly didn't sign on to be called fat on television. Women do it for two simple reasons:

1. The WWE is the biggest, and still at this point best, place to show off their craft. I'm sorry, but I'm going to take the best job possible, if it's open to me. Bar none. And again, do you really think Vince clued the women in to exactly what they're getting themselves into? Do you think Vickie ever expected that type of treatment from Vince, especially with the Hell Vince has caused on her entire family?

2. They love to perform. They have a pride in their performance. Molly Holly was one of the most prideful people in the business. She had more dignity to walk out on the company just like that, and had way too much pride to say that she was going to just leave that easily.

Some of you really take for granted just how much pride these Divas have in their craft. Again, I'm pretty sure that no one signs on to these things. Vince forces it upon them, and they're pretty much left to work with it as best as possible. Then, coincidentally enough, that woman leaves. Because, you know, that should really shock us.

 

[SavageTaker]

I signed the petition and it’s not because Tenta is someone I consider an e-friend. I signed it because it’s something that I feel strongly about. The way Vince treats the women that work for him is unacceptable.

Look, I know that they are getting payed a lot of money and that it’s their decision to work for him. I know that a lot of the women that do decide to work for him know of his past treatment to women. However, that still does not excuse his treatment of women…or at least the women that he employs.

When did it ever become acceptable for him to do the things he has done to embarrass and humiliate women? Those things in the OP don’t even begin to scratch the surface. Most of the people that have been watching wrestling for a long time know that there have been many more instances in which Vince has embarrassed women. One of many instances that come to mind is when he made Trish Stratus bark like a dog.

The bottom line is that Vince should have some class and respect the women he employs just as much as he respects the men. I don’t care if they are top draws like the men are or not, they deserve to be treated better. I don’t care if he humiliates them for storyline purposes or because he thinks it’s amusing to the crowds or himself, I still think it’s wrong of him to do and if you agree then please sign the petition.

 

[Legend_Killer]

I must say I strongly disagree
Firt of all they are getting payed for that and it's pure entertainment and it's their choice they don't want to leave.And with their paycheck they can't just walk like model in the back they must do something I mean with their paycheck I would wrestle in hog pen match too.It's just storyline it's something to make us laught and to watch something interesting in woman division I mean all you can see is them talking in the backgorund someone interups and bla bla bla there is a match so he has gave them more Tv time what else do you want

 

[FromTheSouth]

Sigh... I had a feeling this was going to be the first argument. Which is cool, I understand it. However, I have to disagree with the sentiments of it. Again, the WWE offers the best possible choice to women wrestlers.

I think TNA offers a better chance for female wrestlers. There were two PPV matches at Turning Point, there are multiple angles for that division, and the women are allowed more than five minutes per show.

Do you really expect them to turn down that money, man? I understand where you're coming from, but these women have to make a living.

In fairness though, these women make a living in WWE based on their looks. They exploit their beauty to get paid. WWE has less to do with wrestling ability in that division. This is why Torrie and Stacy are world famous and Gail Kim can't get on TV. How long do you think Awesome Kong would last in WWE? These women choose to work for WWE and someone of Mickie's credibility could sign with TNA right now if she walked out on an angle such as this.

Also, FTS, in case you didn't notice, a common theme to these women is that, after doing these disgusting acts, they did leave the WWE. All of these women have expressed unhappiness with how they were portrayed in the WWE. I remember seeing a shoot interview in which Molly Holly cried over how the "fat" gimmick made her feel. And you can't tell me that you didn't think those tears were legitimate from Mickie James, FTS.

Vivkie Guerrero's entire WWE career is based on her being called stupid, fat, and ugly, but she keeps coming back and agreeing to be exploited. As a matter of fact, I don't think you can even call it exploitation when an adult freely chooses to do something.

As it stands, TNA is becoming a more viable option for women wrestlers. And one women who wasn't pushed by Vince as well as she should have been, based off her looks (Victoria), has already jumped ship.

She drew a paycheck for over a decade from Vince. I will grant that they could have done better with her, but 40 year old women don't fit into the WWE's vision of the division. Call that wrong or right, these women know what they're signing up for. Also, it's not like Victoria didn't have an accomplished run in the WWE. I think Vince sees her on TNA and kicks himself in the teeth for letting her go, but that's the business.

I wouldn't be shocked to see Mickie leave soon after this debacle. She's already talking about a singing career.

She's been there for nearly a decade too. That is a long career for anyone in the WWE, much less a woman, who's shelf life in anything athletic is less than a man's. Men compete in three to four Olympics, while women only last for two. WNBA careers don't last as long as NBA careers. That's physiology, not misogyny.

Finally, again, this speaks more from a busines standpoint. How many multi-million dollar corporations behave this way on a consistent basis? I mean, how many times do yo see this from other companies?

All the time. Overweight women in movies are always treated as overcoming some sort of obstacle to find love. The newsmedia follows Oprah's weight like the stock market. There are not fat women in roles that infer a position of power on television dramas. The girl who sang "Everybody Dance Now" was not allowed in the video because she was fat. The entire entertainment industry shuns and insults fat women constantly. Vince is hardly a trendsetter in this instance.

 

[gd]

Really? What "facet of life" have you ever heard someone refer to a woman as a "fat pig" on so many occasions? If this were an isolated incident, I wouldn't mind, but the fact is, this has been going on for over fifteen fucking years, guys!

What do most of the top movie stars in the world look like? How about singers? Models? Large women are treated differently that skinny women, that's a fact. Obviously, it isn't right, but it's not like the WWE is the only place in the world where this is happening.

As to the claims that they sign on... Do you think that if Vince told them this at the point of their first meeting, they'd still be on board? I doubt Vince ever told Rhonda she was going to be called fat so much. I know for a fact Molly Holly didn't sign on to be called fat on television. Women do it for two simple reasons:

Given everything they've seen from the WWE and pro wrestling, I'm sure they know what they're getting into.

1. The WWE is the biggest, and still at this point best, place to show off their craft. I'm sorry, but I'm going to take the best job possible, if it's open to me. Bar none.

If you choose to work for a company that doesn't treat you the way you want to be treated ahead of a company where you might not get the same exposure/paycheck, bu you'll be treated well, that's your choice and you have to deal with the consequences.

And again, do you really think Vince clued the women in to exactly what they're getting themselves into? Do you think Vickie ever expected that type of treatment from Vince, especially with the Hell Vince has caused on her entire family?

Vickie has recently come back to the WWE, she seems to be fine with the way Vince has treated her.

2. They love to perform. They have a pride in their performance. Molly Holly was one of the most prideful people in the business. She had more dignity to walk out on the company just like that, and had way too much pride to say that she was going to just leave that easily.

Some of you really take for granted just how much pride these Divas have in their craft. Again, I'm pretty sure that no one signs on to these things. Vince forces it upon them, and they're pretty much left to work with it as best as possible. Then, coincidentally enough, that woman leaves. Because, you know, that should really shock us.

I'm not saying that they don't have pride, but they do know what they're getting into and they shouldn't be surprised if they're treated badly.

 

[Mr. Steve]

I must say I strongly disagree
Firt of all they are getting payed for that and it's pure entertainment and it's their choice they don't want to leave.And with their paycheck they can't just walk like model in the back they must do something I mean with their paycheck I would wrestle in hog pen match too.It's just storyline it's something to make us laught and to watch something interesting in woman division I mean all you can see is them talking in the backgorund someone interups and bla bla bla there is a match so he has gave them more Tv time what else do you want

I disagree with that, but at the same time, I agree with it. Yeah, they know what they're getting into, but when you look at things like the video, for example, you sort of think "is this overkill?" Same as the Vickie Guerrero storyline.

I get its purpose is for getting McCool heat (which will go straight up into nowhere, lets face it) and gather sympathy for Mickie as a heel since Smackdown is in dire need of some face diva to counterpart the Face superstar of smackdown (being the Undertaker as of now) But, at what point will you go to put one of them there? She can handle a few remarks, but she has a point where she'll just up and jump ship. Her excuse? "I didn't like where I was and the environment the WWE had." Same as Kennedy, Victoria, Colt Cabana when he was released. Even though they said it in different words, their meaning ended up the same: They didn't like it there.

 

[m1k3b14z3]

well im just gonna keep this short and sweet ive signed the petition and what happened this past friday on smackdown is a disgrace mickie has been one of the best women performers in wwe for awhile now and you would think she would have enough respect within the company for this not to happen its ashame

 

[Tenta]

I think TNA offers a better chance for female wrestlers. There were two PPV matches at Turning Point, there are multiple angles for that division, and the women are allowed more than five minutes per show.

Yes, but even you must admit, it wasn't seen as a viable option until Hogan signed, mainly because they couldn't offer nearly enough money. Now, as time goes on, you will see more Divas entering TNA. I can guarantee it. Because Dixie treats her women a shitload better than Vince ever could.

In fairness though, these women make a living in WWE based on their looks. They exploit their beauty to get paid. WWE has less to do with wrestling ability in that division. This is why Torrie and Stacy are world famous and Gail Kim can't get on TV. How long do you think Awesome Kong would last in WWE? These women choose to work for WWE and someone of Mickie's credibility could sign with TNA right now if she walked out on an angle such as this.

Well, allegedly, she's pursuing a singing career, anyway. The fallout for the Mickie situation hasn't hit yet, but I doubt it's going to be all good, FTS. I have a funny feeling this is going to do quite a bit of damage for Mickie and Vince's relationship, if it wasn't strained already. As for the idea that women exploit us... That seriously is laughable. FTS, I'm almost shocked you'd say this. It's already noted Vince likes pretty girls. I don't see exactly what you're point is.

Vivkie Guerrero's entire WWE career is based on her being called stupid, fat, and ugly, but she keeps coming back and agreeing to be exploited. As a matter of fact, I don't think you can even call it exploitation when an adult freely chooses to do something.

I'd disagree with this. I'd say she was regarded as stupid and fat during her feud with Triple H. Otherwise, say what you want, but her weight was never mentioned. as a matter of fact, she was a GM, FTS. She was a woman of power. I fail to see how she looked dumb beyond when she had six months left in the WWE. Then, again, she started to get made fun of for her weight.

And then she left. Coincidence?

Oh, and furthermore, Vince should have a pretty sweet deal. Considering how, you know, she fucked her entire family, and left them with little other source for income.

She drew a paycheck for over a decade from Vince. I will grant that they could have done better with her, but 40 year old women don't fit into the WWE's vision of the division. Call that wrong or right, these women know what they're signing up for.

Bullshit. I'm sure Vince negotiates with them, and tells them everything they want to hear. Victoria was actually pushed pretty well for a portion of time. Granted, as a psycho, but still pushed. And when she realized that Vince wasn't booking her well, she went to TNA. And is having the best run of her career, wrestling good matches with Awesome Kong.

Victoria: 1. Vince: 0. And consider the other jumpers, FTS. Gail, Christy. Aren't they far better when they were in TNA? Maybe not Christy, but definirtely Gail. You can't argue that.

She's been there for nearly a decade too. That is a long career for anyone in the WWE, much less a woman, who's shelf life in anything athletic is less than a man's. Men compete in three to four Olympics, while women only last for two. WNBA careers don't last as long as NBA careers. That's physiology, not misogyny.

I grant you your WNBA analogy. Still, Mickie wasn't always viewed as "overweight". Her weight apparently became an issue a couple months ago. And look who's harping on it, FTS. Vince himself.

All the time. Overweight women in movies are always treated as overcoming some sort of obstacle to find love. The newsmedia follows Oprah's weight like the stock market. There are not fat women in roles that infer a position of power on television dramas. The girl who sang "Everybody Dance Now" was not allowed in the video because she was fat. The entire entertainment industry shuns and insults fat women constantly. Vince is hardly a trendsetter in this instance.

And all the times you mentioned, the audience mainly sees it as classless, and kinda discriminatory. Even the Little Mermaid sometimes gets that revionist thinking, FTS. Just because others do it, doesn't mean it isn't classless.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

Seriously guys? C'mon how many of you disrespect women in any way, shape or form during your normal day-to-day activties. Stop your whinning fellas. These are grown women, not babies and if they choose to be placed in this type of position then that's at their own decision makings. Stop being so eff'n up tight about everything the WWE & Vince McMahon does because best believe NONE of you guys who are "siging" this silly peition were being cry babies when females like Sable, Debra, The Cat, Sunny, etc etc were shaking their body parts in front of the screen 10 years ago. Goodness guys, grow a set already!

 

[Tenta]

Seriously guys? C'mon how many of you disrespect women in any way, shape or form during your normal day-to-day activties.

That doesn't stop it from being disrepectful. I love this thought that because other people do it, it's ok. It really isn't. All it is is justification for your own being in the wrong.

Stop your whinning fellas. These are grown women, not babies and if they choose to be placed in this type of position then that's at their own decision makings. Stop being so eff'n up tight about everything the WWE & Vince McMahon does because best believe NONE of you guys who are "siging" this silly peition were being cry babies when females like Sable, Debra, The Cat, Sunny, etc etc were shaking their body parts in front of the screen 10 years ago. Goodness guys, grow a set already!

Actually, I was. I detested the Bra and Panty matches, because they were so discriminatory. Anyone will tell you, this has been a constant feeling on my part. Feel free to ask any regular on this board.

In short, your argument is based on all insults, and nothing to back yourself up. There's nothing for me to debate here... Your entire argument is "Grow a set". And that's the kind of argument a sixth grader makes.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

You are so right Vince has taken this WAY to far. Mickie is not fat she's not even close. She looks better than the other divas because she isn't too skinny like Michelle McCool she is TO skinny. Last night when I saw that I cried and I wanted to rip Michelle and Layla's heads off then I relaized they are just doing what they were told to do this is all Vince's fault. Some of the divas are going to get tired of these and leave and he will lose so great divas. He has always wanted his divas to be skinny now he wants them to skinny Mickie is skinny but she isn't skinny enough to him. If he keeps this up he is going to lose one of the best divas he has ever had. Now since this happened I'm not sure I even want to be a diva anymore maybe I'll be a knockout instead they treat there female wrestlers way better. I mean its great that the divas are talking and actually have personalitys and brains now like we wanted them to have, but now its at the expense of Mickie James and I'm sure that nobody likes that.

 

[legorilla]

Problem is as a private business owner Vince has the right to basically discriminate against any weight type he pleases. Rights of a private business owner right there. I honestly take it tongue in cheek, we all know the "number one burn" you can throw at most women is something that makes them question their self esteem/weight - at least in the eyes of the general public. Fun fact, Hollister actually ranks their employees and bases their job position/pay in their stores based on their look. Who knew!

 

[FromTheSouth]

Yes, but even you must admit, it wasn't seen as a viable option until Hogan signed, mainly because they couldn't offer nearly enough money. Now, as time goes on, you will see more Divas entering TNA. I can guarantee it. Because Dixie treats her women a shitload better than Vince ever could.

I would think that Gail Kim is the perfect example of one who knows that life is better in TNA than it is in WWE. She went from being the face of the
division to jobbing on Superstars to Kelly Kelly. TNA, by the way, does the same thing with the beautiful people. It's a heel tactic.

Well, allegedly, she's pursuing a singing career, anyway. The fallout for the Mickie situation hasn't hit yet, but I doubt it's going to be all good, FTS. I have a funny feeling this is going to do quite a bit of damage for Mickie and Vince's relationship, if it wasn't strained already. As for the idea that women exploit us...

This is the business world we're talking about. You either do the job or you don't. A relationship with your boss is a bonus, but you could fuck your boss' wife and he would keep you around if your valuable to the company.

seriously is laughable. FTS, I'm almost shocked you'd say this. It's already noted Vince likes pretty girls. I don't see exactly what you're point is.

My point is that women exploit their beauty all the time. They get jobs in the WWE based on their looks, and often times, nothing else. The exploitation in wrestling goes both ways. But, hey, thanks for saying that my point is laughable in one breath and then saying that you don't get it in the next.

I'd disagree with this. I'd say she was regarded as stupid and fat during her feud with Triple H. Otherwise, say what you want, but her weight was never mentioned. as a matter of fact, she was a GM, FTS.

The entire angle with Edge was based on her being unattractive and doing everything should could to keep Edge by screwing everyone else.

She was a woman of power. I fail to see how she looked dumb beyond when she had six months left in the WWE. Then, again, she started to get made fun of for her weight.

Really? Rewatch that angle. Edge cheated on her and made fun of her panties.

And then she left. Coincidence?

And she's chosen to come back. Coincidence?

Oh, and furthermore, Vince should have a pretty sweet deal. Considering how, you know, she fucked her entire family, and left them with little other source for income.

Vince's fault Eddie didn't buy life insurance?

The only thing that's laughable is how Vince gets shit on for the choices that adults make for themselves.





Bullshit. I'm sure Vince negotiates with them, and tells them everything they want to hear. Victoria was actually pushed pretty well for a portion of time. Granted, as a psycho, but still pushed. And when she realized that Vince wasn't booking her well, she went to TNA. And is having the best run of her career, wrestling good matches with Awesome Kong.

Victoria: 1. Vince: 0. And consider the other jumpers, FTS. Gail, Christy. Aren't they far better when they were in TNA? Maybe not Christy, but definirtely Gail. You can't argue that.




I grant you your WNBA analogy. Still, Mickie wasn't always viewed as "overweight". Her weight apparently became an issue a couple months ago. And look who's harping on it, FTS. Vince himself.






And all the times you mentioned, the audience mainly sees it as classless, and kinda discriminatory. Even the Little Mermaid sometimes gets that revionist thinking, FTS. Just because others do it, doesn't mean it isn't classless.[/quote]

 

[Tenta]

Problem is as a private business owner Vince has the right to basically discriminate against any weight type he pleases. Rights of a private business owner right there. I honestly take it tongue in cheek, we all know the "number one burn" you can throw at most women is something that makes them question their self esteem/weight - at least in the eyes of the general public. Fun fact, Hollister actually ranks their employees and bases their job position/pay in their stores based on their look. Who knew!

Except, Surprise!.....

The WWE is, in fact, a public company!

Vince took the WWE public a long, long time ago. Meaning while Vince is the owner, it still is a publicly traded company. So that argument goes right out the window.

Anyway, as for a followup, I've met with the head of the Feminist group at my university. they're totally on board for bringing this to the the WWE's headquarters in Stamford. Which, double surprise, is only fifteen minutes away from me. I intend on making this as big as possible, so this isn't stopping with an internet forum. I assure you.

 

[Big Daddy Fool]

While i agree that, the segment can be considered poor in taste and it gives young girls the wrong idea about body image because Mickie James is by no means a big. But this is the world we live in. This is a society that puts pressure on young women to be skinny and if you're not a size 0 you're too chubby. I dont know how many times i hear about an air-brushing controversy with a model or a model being fired for being a size 4. These pressures lead to girls developing eating disorders. Vince didn't cause these issues, society did.

This is a real world issue and why not use this to make a compelling storyline. Most of us lived through high school and know that this is what girls deal with on a daily basis. With girls talking behind each others back calling each other fat and putting the others down. Maybe Mickie can come out saying I'm ok with my body it's ok to have curves and send a positive message out to people. This is the most i've been interested in the smackdown womens division in awhile.

While Vince has had his problems in the past with women you can't blame him for this one.

 

[Tenta]

I would think that Gail Kim is the perfect example of one who knows that life is better in TNA than it is in WWE. She went from being the face of the
division to jobbing on Superstars to Kelly Kelly. TNA, by the way, does the same thing with the beautiful people. It's a heel tactic.

Even the Beautiful People have their limits, FTS. And for that matter, TNA doesn't have a long standing history, dating back fifteen years, to say that they're perpetual offenders.

This is the business world we're talking about. You either do the job or you don't. A relationship with your boss is a bonus, but you could fuck your boss' wife and he would keep you around if your valuable to the company.

And again, you do the business, because you have to. I'm sure Mickie doesn't approve of it, but she's too proud to give up her job now. She loves her work. Now, again, I'll wait to see the fallout from this situation. But it doesn't look good.

My point is that women exploit their beauty all the time. They get jobs in the WWE based on their looks, and often times, nothing else. The exploitation in wrestling goes both ways. But, hey, thanks for saying that my point is laughable in one breath and then saying that you don't get it in the next.

It'a laughable in the context that, just because it works in the manner you've described, which admittedly is quite the standard, it doesn't make the television any less disgusting.

The entire angle with Edge was based on her being unattractive and doing everything should could to keep Edge by screwing everyone else.

Only up until the actual cheating. Before, it was all about having Vickie's.... Ahem.... Power.

Really? Rewatch that angle. Edge cheated on her and made fun of her panties.

You'd really subject me to that angle again? You must be heartless

Anyway, again, up until Edge's feud with Trips, it was all about power. Then, it started to get really nasty, really fast.

And she's chosen to come back. Coincidence?

Sure. Vickie needs the money to support her family. And Vince kinda does owe her a solid. So why not?

Vince's fault Eddie didn't buy life insurance?

The only thing that's laughable is how Vince gets shit on for the choices that adults make for themselves.

And it alleviates his guilt for not having a responsible wellness policy in place?

And... I'm not exactly sure what the rest of the argument was. Perhaps you can tell me. I like keeping this going.

 

[Midnite Express 2009]

I wasn't trying to argue a point. Most of the petitions I am in favor of, and to be quite honest, you're entitled to your opinion on what you consider tasteless or otherwise. My point was that it seems there was a bit of nit-picking with this petiton. So what the WWE stops the way they treat females. Do you think that's going to completely get rid of the other 22 hrs of television that's NOT on Nickeloden that's in some way, shape or form disrespectful to women? Not in the least bit. I seriously doubt anyone would care that the WWE stopped what they were doing.

Furthermore, those segments are just a small portion of the overall presentation. I'm not diluting women wrestlers, they're just as talented and in some cases, more talented than their male counterparts, but what I was saying was quit the whinning about the way they're being treated because if they haven't complained about it openly or otherwise then perhaps, just maybe they really don't give a damn anwyay. Just my "opinion" just like you're entitled to yours.

 

[lenguy]

i also disagree. the women make the choice to sign on with wwe. they should expect stuff like this to happen, it comes with the job. i will not sign the petition because i think your all taking this to far. im sure that was just a warning to mickie to just lose a bit of weight, so they incorperated that into the act,if was an act or not. the message was clear and i think thats what wwe was trying to do send her a message to lose a few pounds thats all. all McCool said was piggy james...is that really so bad?i could think of a thousand things much worse that a person could call her.

how is it that people can start a topic when somebody like mickie gets insulted,yet i seen no sympathy thread when vickie got that threatment from edge after she planned on leaving. i get it nobody likes her, but she is a women and she was straight up called fat..nobody cared then. why is mickie any different? they warned her already, this was probailly another one. im not being disrespectful towards women. but dosent wwe/ vince always had a history of making fun of their divas once in awhile? how about the time vince made trish crawl on her hands and kness and bark like a dog?its nothing to go screaming to your congress about. it happens and it will happen again. vince is the boss and he can do whatever he wants weather you approve of it or not. i think even mickie would agree a petition is a little extreme. its heartfelt that some people care enough that they dont want to see women threated like that..but come on it could of been soo much worse. I just think its a bit unnecessary.

but i like the thought. it counts

 

[Tenta]

how is it that people can start a topic when somebody like mickie gets insulted,yet i seen no sympathy thread when vickie got that threatment from edge after she planned on leaving.

Lenguy, this is kinda the point. For all who think is totally about Mickie James, you couldn't be more wrong. This is a history of events, that Vince refuses to change, and will not change until someone shows him how wrong it is.

Want to know how wrong it is? Ok. I dare you to call a woman you care about a pig. Go on, do it. And if she doesn't get upset, I will give you total creedence to your argument. But I sincerely doubt that's going to happen. You wouldn't think of calling any woman you know a fat pig, because you know it's wrong.

So why is it ok now? Because it's on television? Give me a fucking break.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Even the Beautiful People have their limits, FTS. And for that matter, TNA doesn't have a long standing history, dating back fifteen years, to say that they're perpetual offenders.

Because shaving people's heads and putting bags over their faces is no way comparable to calling Mickie Porky Pig? If I think long enough, I'm sure I can find examples of the BP calling someone fat. I think your problem may be that WWE insults people with better production values.

And again, you do the business, because you have to. I'm sure Mickie doesn't approve of it, but she's too proud to give up her job now. She loves her work. Now, again, I'll wait to see the fallout from this situation. But it doesn't look good.

Then, if you love your job, you put up with the times you get shit on. Everyone gets passed over for a promotion, reprimanded for something out of their control or given shitty assignments. This is comparable to Mickie's incident. She works in an industry where your boobs are your most important skill.

It'a laughable in the context that, just because it works in the manner you've described, which admittedly is quite the standard, it doesn't make the television any less disgusting.

I see it as a comedy stunt. All jokes are going to offend someone. If Mickie wins the belt from McCool, she overcame McCool's teasing to win, and this looks like a nonevent.

Only up until the actual cheating. Before, it was all about having Vickie's.... Ahem.... Power.

And he took advantage of the fact that she was fat, ugly, stupid, and lonely.

You'd really subject me to that angle again? You must be heartless

Anyway, again, up until Edge's feud with Trips, it was all about power. Then, it started to get really nasty, really fast.

I think it was about Vickie's apearence from day one. That would not have worked as well with Tiffany.

Sure. Vickie needs the money to support her family. And Vince kinda does owe her a solid. So why not?

I don't think Vince owes her anything. Eddie od'd on prescription pain killers that are not banned by the WWE.

And it alleviates his guilt for not having a responsible wellness policy in place?

See above.

And... I'm not exactly sure what the rest of the argument was. Perhaps you can tell me. I like keeping this going.

My argument was that every time someone gets involved in something less than savory, it's Vince that gets blamed, like he thought of it, wrote it, directed it, and was the star. It takes a lot of adults making conscious decisions to make on of these objectionable angles work. I don't think it's petition worthy.

 

[Tenta]

Because shaving people's heads and putting bags over their faces is no way comparable to calling Mickie Porky Pig? If I think long enough, I'm sure I can find examples of the BP calling someone fat. I think your problem may be that WWE insults people with better production values.

No, I have a problem that the WWE has continually done this, unapologetically, to wrestlers for years. Example: Bertha Faye: Nicole Bass. Why has no one discussed these women's cases, and the horrible treatment they receive?

Then, if you love your job, you put up with the times you get shit on. Everyone gets passed over for a promotion, reprimanded for something out of their control or given shitty assignments. This is comparable to Mickie's incident. She works in an industry where your boobs are your most important skill.

And that loving the job has nothing to do with an overwhelming curmudgeon of a boss who just can't seem to get his mind out the 1950s.

I see it as a comedy stunt. All jokes are going to offend someone. If Mickie wins the belt from McCool, she overcame McCool's teasing to win, and this looks like a nonevent.

And what if she doesn't FTS? Besides that, McCool has quite a bit of backing in the Smackdown locker room. Where's the certainty she'll drop the belt here?

And he took advantage of the fact that she was fat, ugly, stupid, and lonely.

This one, I'm going to concede.

I think it was about Vickie's apearence from day one. That would not have worked as well with Tiffany.

Because Tiffany is terrible as a character. Vickie played a terrific part. Fatness or not.

I don't think Vince owes her anything. Eddie od'd on prescription pain killers that are not banned by the WWE.




See above.

Again, difference of opinion. I think some type of resposibility must fall upon the owner. It does for most other owners. Look at MLB, the owners are starting to get heat for the Steroid Scandal.

My argument was that every time someone gets involved in something less than savory, it's Vince that gets blamed, like he thought of it, wrote it, directed it, and was the star. It takes a lot of adults making conscious decisions to make on of these objectionable angles work. I don't think it's petition worthy.

Vince gets blamed because everyone knows, at the end of the day, Vince signs off on everything. Nothing gets by without Vince's approval. Still, he rubber stamped it.

Just like he's had a history of doing for fifteen some-odd years.

 

[Pickle]

I signed. I don't really get what exactly it is that others are disagreeing with here... Are you saying that Vince doesn't mistreat women based on their looks? Or that it's okay?

There's a huge difference between just operating within society's view of an ideal women and enforcing it and saying that it's okay. Vince does the latter. If he were to just hire girls that look a certain way and leave it at that, he wouldn't be doing anything that most entertainment industries do. But Vince goes out of his way to make fun of certain employees.

Making fun of Molly's big ass (despite the fact that it wasn't big at all) and calling Mickie James fat are the two worst examples of this. Oh and firing Cherry and Candice Michelle and citing their weight issues was pretty bad too. Anywhere else in the world, eve most other wrestling companys in the world, would treat these women as hot and talented individuals. But Vince makes a point of humiliating them and trying to degrade them until they look a certain way.

The men aren't treated this way. I don't recall a WWE angle that's focused on how Jeff Hardy looks like a meth addict, or how huge HHH nose is, or how Batista has a small steroid dick. Even with the bigger wrestlers like Umaga, Yokozuna, Rikishi, etc, I don't remember them being called fat too often and there definitely wasn't whole angles built around it. The only man I can think of that got mistreated because of how he looked was Adrain Adonis. He was a bad ass trucker, he gained weight, Vince strapped him with a gimmick to expose and make fun of his weight gain. But he was at least made to look like a talented wrestler who could pose a threat to others. None of the women that Vince has made fun of ever come ut of the feuds as the winner.

People can defend this and say that it's just for fun, but it's still sending a negative message to young guys and girls everywhere. Just because kids get exposed to these same messages everywhere else, doesn't mean it's okay for it to happen. Wrestling's operated just fine for a century without having to resort to degrading women to get over, so it's really unneccessary.

And now to end this mega-post, I'm just going to quote some of the more stupid things that FTS has said so far:

Let me know when Gray's Anatomy hires an overweight woman and portrays her as anything but someone near her deathbed.

Uhhh, two of the main cast members since the beginning are bigger women (by entertainment industry standards). One of them is portrayed as one of the most knowledgeable and skilled doctors on the show, and the other is portrayed as a super sexy, confident and skilled doctor. Hooray for making statements that you know nothing about.

She's [Mickie] been there for nearly a decade too. That is a long career for anyone in the WWE, much less a woman, who's shelf life in anything athletic is less than a man's. Men compete in three to four Olympics, while women only last for two. WNBA careers don't last as long as NBA careers. That's physiology, not misogyny.

Mickie's been around since late 2005. It's late 2009. She's barely been around for 4 years. NOT A DECADE. Learn to count. But this point is moot anyway, because Moolah and Mae Young were competing much longer than any male wrestler I can think of not named Thesz or Gagne, and Vince made them look strong and Moolah won a title at age 70 something. And regardless of how long she's been there, Mickie's still the most popular woman on the roster so I don't get how this can be used to defend Vince. If his concern with women's looks and obvious hatred of them (see Trish barks like a dog statement, anything his character has ever said about Linda, etc) is strong enough that he'd actually make his #1 women's star look bad, it's apparent that it's a problem.

The entire angle with Edge was based on her being unattractive and doing everything should could to keep Edge by screwing everyone else.

Really? Rewatch that angle. Edge cheated on her and made fun of her panties.

And she's chosen to come back. Coincidence?

It wasn't based on her being attractive. It was based on her unrequited love for Edge. Up until the Trips feud, it was never about her weight. Most viewers immediately associated everything with how she physically looked, and called her a pig, but the WWE didn't help them do it. You can cheat on skinny girls and make fun of their panties too. But it became disrespectful once face wrestlers actually began commenting on her weight.

And I don't know because I'm not her, but there's a good chance that she came back because she's a single mother. I'm sure if she had a choice between a well paying job that doesn't make fun of her or one that does, she'd choose the one that doesn't. But she must feel like she has no other viable options and so she puts up with it. That doesn't make it right.

 

[jarredclements]

Vince's chauvinism went too far in my opinion this past Friday. He mistreats anyone he thinks are not suitable for his own shows, .

Well I believe if he didn't consider James suitable for his "shows", then she wouldn't be in the WWE.

Ok, if I was getting that "fat" paycheck Vince gives out, I wouldn't care what was said about me on TV. People forget its an honor to be in a WWE ring. I'm pretty sure he went through the skit beforehand, and cleared it with Mickie. All it was, was making McCool a bigger heel.

 

[Kanye South]

Tentzilla, you're blowing this way out of proportion. The Hog Pen Match at Extreme Rules was not meant to be a diss to Vickie Guerrero, it was meant to escalate the feud between Chavo/Santino, if I remember correctly, that was the feud being portrayed at the time. The stunt on Smackdown this past Friday was the most time and effort spent on the WWE Womens' Division in a long time. Mickie James is fine as hell, and way more attractive than anorexic bitch #3 aka Michelle McCool. She's only there because of Taker, and is a horrible diva. Vince did not mean any harm to James with that skit, and if her appearance was really the problem, then she would have been dropped like Candice Michelle. Beth Pheonix looks like a man, but she is a multiple time world champion, and is the Goldberg of the womens division. That just shows that you don't have to be a Jessica Alba or Beyonce to be successful in the WWE. The stunt Friday only intensified the feud between Mickie and Michelle, and it's been a long time since WWE took time outside of a match or backstage interaction that the WWE has done that.

EDIT: Nicole Bass was a chick?

 

[sWo]

While I think you definitely have a valid point, you're going a bit above and beyond. Yes, all the examples you listed solidify your position, they also were entertaining in their own way.

Bertha Faye, was around during the time period of cartoon-esque characters for the WWE. Her character and Harvey Whippleman having a love-thing going on, hilarious. Granted, they called her fat, etc etc, but ...well, let's face it. She's .. big.

Nicole Bass ... as far as I could see, couldn't really wrestle, and was lucky to get on WWE TV at all. Then again, I wasn't watching wrestling that much at that time, so it's hard for me to comment. But hey, she got a paycheck, and someone hit on her...at least she got something out of her time in the E'.

Vickie Guerrero? Again, brutally honest, she's a great heel personality but, lookswise, not on anyone's "To do" list. As has been mentioned, that match with Santino or Santina or whatever, just a way to further a feud. HHH's remarks? He makes fun of Vince too. All part of putting the E, in WWE.

Same with the current Mickie Jame's storyline. All in all, the E' caters to kids, and to the lowest common denominator. And for that, it's the 18-45 male demographic that enjoys tasteless humor, violence, and degradation of the human character. While not being right, it's what's worked. And will continue to work.

PS: As you said to another person in the thread, about telling someone you care about them, that they are a fat pig, I call my ex a fat ass all the time, and she does it to me. It doesn't hurt, we laugh about it. So, it's perfectly possible to "insult" someone, without really meaning it, and them taking it for what it is, humor.