Owen Hart's legacy being destroyed.

[DirtyJosé]

Thank you, it's not often that someone is so willing to be owned repeatedly.

DirtyJose

1. That’s WWE fault for not following the damn contract. Is WWE that stupid that they don’t know what will happen if you don’t follow a contract? That is what happens when you take a stupid risk like that. Sorry WWE is to blame for this, not Martha.

Do you know the terms of the contract? Has it been made totally public? No, it hasn't. You're jumping to conclusions; if Martha's case was truly that rock solid, she would have been able to block it's release.

2. No I’m not, I’m listening to what Martha has to say and not bashing her for following the damn law. No your not looking at this from both sides, if you were, you would not be calling Martha every name in the book.

Again, do you know the complete terms of the contract? No, so stop acting like you do. And I'm sorry, but even trying to understand her perspective I feel she's being a selfish cunt.

3. LOL when it comes to my loved one and someone hurting them, your damn right I am not afraid to be a bitch. I think it does, why should WWE respect Owen now, why wasn’t he respected when he was alive? Isn’t that what counts? How you treat someone when they are alive? Not when they are dead?

Once again you fail to grasp the basics of the conversation; go back to the kid's table. How does this relate to Martha Hart filing a lawsuit over a bullshit claim?

4. I just think there is more too this accident then WWE is letting on. I think something more when on then we know about.

Are you trying to imply that the WWE knowingly killed Owen Hart? Seriously, you are a total fucking ******.

5. WWE is selfish as as well. But I don’t see Martha being selfish in this sorry.

That is because you are, once again, a total fucking ******.

6. Sorry but I disagree, all Martha need’s to think about is her kids and herself. You can blame WWE for the way things have been going.

I can blame WWE because Martha hides her children from their family?

And seriously, you aren't even making any points any more, you're not answering questions asked of you, just like in other threads. You just keep repeating yourself and hoping that I won't respond. Try again.

I'd be more sympathetic of this if she didn't already have a history of being a petty selfish cunt.

 

[CenaFan]

Those that don't understand what this law suit is all about here it is

The lawsuit claims that the defendants violated a contract restricting the use of Owen Hart’s name and likeness, and disregarded Martha Hart’s wishes against further association of her late husband’s name with WWE following his death in a tragic accident orchestrated by WWE's predecessor under the direction of Vince and Linda McMahon. WWE has continued to use Owen Hart’s name and image in videos, websites, television programming and print materials in violation of the contract Mr. Hart signed before his death, and despite Mrs. Hart’s expressed wishes. The lawsuit seeks an order prohibiting WWE from further unauthorized use of Owen Hart’s image and likeness and damages for past WWE profits.



Now if a contract was indeed broken for the 100 times, Martha has every right to go after them.

It even states that Owen Hart even signed the contract.

If people would get there facts straight, this would not be a issue.


The full complaint.

http://www.marthahartsueswwe.com/downloads/Complaint.pdf

 

[tiggly_pinks]

If anyone wants to read the lawsuit Martha filed, you can here: http://www.marthahartsueswwe.com/downloads/Complaint.pdf

But if you're kind of lazy and don't feel like reading it all (there's like 12 pages of stuff most of us probably knew; how she feels the WWE wronged her and her family and how she wants to distance herself and blah, blah, blah), here's a basic summary:

The counts are false association, invasion of privacy, breach of contract-unauthorized use of original intellectual property, copyright infringement, breach of booking agreement, unjust enrichment, accounting, violation of CUPTA (Connecticut Unfair Trade Practices Act), and violation of right of publicity.

The one phrase that's repeated for all the counts against the WWE is this:

WHEREFORE, the Estate demands judgment against defendants for damages in an
amount to be determined at trial, injunctive relief, together with interest, attorneys’ fees, costs
and such other relief as the court deems just and appropriate.

Also, Martha wants this trial to go to a jury.

Personally I don't think Martha's going to get much out of this besides cash. After reading the lawsuit myself (which took me a good hour to get through), it's sounding more and more like she's out for money.

 

[Cookie14]

Cookie
It was a tragic accident that could have been avoided if WWE respected there wrestlers and what they do. This was not a accident to me. This was a stupid stunt that WWE constructed to satisfy the fans, despite what the wrestlers felt about it.

This WAS a tragic accident. This was a stunt that went wrong. A stunt that had been performed by Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania before then. A stunt that Sting performed almost every week in WCW. Unfortuanatley, this time, something went wrong.

Why No, Just No?

Because you are wrong. Just, plain wrong!

I don’t know if I would want to know anything about a company that basically killed my loved one, Why is that so hard to believe? If someone murdered your loved one, would you want to know anything about them?

If any company, or any individual, was responsible for the death of anyone I cared about then I would want to know everything about them. I would want EVERY detail of EVERYTHING that contributed to the death of my loved one. That is why there is an INQUEST to any death.

That is not the issue here. That isn’t what we are talking about. If your brother died in a car accident and someone that was drinking and driving was responsible for that accident, are you telling me that you would sit down with them and have a cup of coffee?

Yes I would. I would like nothing more than to tell them how their actions had affected me, and the rest of the people that knew the person that had died.

I would like to see how they felt about what had happened.

It's ironic, because you have picked the best possible example for me to base my arguement on.
You have a few drinks, decide to drive home. You risk your own health and safety, and that of anyone else that you might pass on the road. But, chances are, you've done it before and nothing bad happened, so you think you can do it again and get away with it.
WWE had taken this chance before (and watched WCW do it several times), with nothing bad ever happening.

You take a risk, and if you get away with it, you will repeat it untill you get caught.

In this case, 'getting caught' resulted in the death of Owen Hart.

I have met Owen, and I have met Bret. I don’t need Owen in the hall of fame to remember him by. I have my own memories. How do you know they want too? That is what I’m saying. How do you know that this is what the kids want and they don’t want to hear anything about there father and I’m sorry but it’s there right.

You met Owen? I bet you love telling people about that experience. So does anyone else that has ever met Owen. But if you have any link to WWE, the you're not allowed to share those memories, it seems.

WWE isn’t right at all, not if there is a contract that stops them from doing this. Do you not know what a contract is? If a contract is broken, they person has every right to sue them it’s that simple

WWE owns the footage. They could sell it to Bret Hart for $5 if they wanted to, then he could give them permission to use that footage (as they did with Stu Hart) in any DVD, or on any of their programming. That way, WWE is not using their footage to profit from Owen. All financial benefits would go to the Hart Family.

How do we know that this isn't what has happened?

The details of the original lawsuit will never be made public, just like the reasons for this latest lawsuit.

But if Martha is going to sue WWE for promoting Owen's likeness, than she should sue Bret for wearing an Owen T-Shirt on Raw the other week, or for his speech on WCW after Owens death.

The Hart family hate Martha, and she hates anything to do with wrestling, apart from the money it can provide her with, obviously.

 

[CenaFan]

I don't think she's out for money, if this indeed was something that Owen Hart didn't want, then you know what WWE should respect that.

Why shouldn't she get the money anyways? It's her husband that they are making a profit on.


Cookie

Ok, we can go by your argument.

Let's say a company sells your brother a car. When your brother bought it, the company had lied and said nothing was wrong with the car but there was. Because of that lie, your brother ended up in a dangerous accident and died. Would you be able to trust that company again and be able to go buy another car? and would you want them to make profit out of your brother death?


Cookie, read the post above, WWE does not own anything. Not when there is a damn contract involved.

 

[Stone_Cold_Randy_Orton]

Stone_Cold_Randy_Orton

lol in that sense

why should martha give a damn about what you guys want, if you guys don't care about her or the kids?

She shouldn't. That's why we don't like her. Read previous post.

DO you think Owen Hart would appreciate you guys talking crap about his wife and kids?

Do you think Owen would appreciate his wife ruining his legacy and screwing up the minds of his kids? He doesn't care if we talk trash because he knows everyone does.

Do you think your respecting Owen Hart by talking bad about his wife and kids?

Do you think your logic is better than mine? The correct answer here would be no.

These people are someone that Owen loves and cares about.

Agreed. That's why its all the more dishonorable.

No that isn't what she's thinking. If people would read what the thing is about, it's about WWE making profit. If WWE was all about respecting Owen, they would not need to make profit out of it.

Your one smart cookie. You don't do any research and you make dogmatic assumptions about a person you know nothing about. Read Bret's opinion on her since he knew her. What's the WWE making a profit from? Name it. They honor him by wanting to induct him in the HOF. Sure they have a couple DVDs about the Hart's that include him. Whats wrong with that? If they are exploiting him in any way then they should be corrected. Go back, read the "thing", and come back and make an opinion.

 

[The Crock]

The WWE only uses Owen's image when they are remembering how GREAT he was, Martha is destroying his legacy. She should let the WWE use Owen's name and likeness, if Owen never gets into the HOF not only will that be terribly wrong but it will all be Martha's fault.

 

[HBKevin]

Thanks for providing that document. I read or skimmed a good deal of it. This part stuck out to me:

"MARTHA CREATES THE OWEN HART FOUNDATION AND TAKES ALL STEPS
POSSIBLE TO DISTANCE IT AND OWEN HART’S NAME FROM THE WWE
27. In December 2000, after settlement of the lawsuit against Titan, Martha established
The Owen Hart Foundation (“Foundation&#8221. Its two signature charitable priorities are
scholarships and housing. The Foundation also partners with other worthy causes
that share its vision, such as school lunch programs that feed low-income children.
As demonstrated by its mission statement of : “help[ing] hard-working people who
have limited resources and unlimited potential,” the Foundation is the antithesis of the
WWE and McMahons whose only mission is to promote themselves and their
organization through theatrical acts of violence and intimidation.
28. Building this tribute to Owen and his children has given Martha strength and saved
her from despair over Owen’s death.
29. The Foundation has experienced tremendous growth and success over its ten year
history. Today, the Foundation is able to attract high profile entertainers such as
Ringo Starr, Jerry Seinfeld, Bill Cosby, Howie Mandel and Bob Newhart, who
participate in supporting its fund-raising events and celebrating Owen’s memory
through the Foundation’s good works.
30. Since Owen’s death, Martha and Owen’s children have steadfastly avoided
associating with the WWE or the McMahons because they were responsible for
Owen’s death and have a public image that is inconsistent with Foundation’s good
works. Contrary to the WWE and McMahons, Martha, Owen’s children and the
Foundation want nothing to do with violent and highly questionable theatrical events."

Apparently Mrs. Hart is under the impression that Owen being associated with the WWE in any way soils the good name of the Owen Hart Foundation, a charitable group. I find this to be ludicrous. She seeks to create the impression that Owen was totally against the wrestling industry. In that case, why was he a wrestler? I also find it highly dubious that she didn't know about WWE's usage of Owen's name and likeness until 2010 with the release of the Hart Family DVD. Particularly, in 2006 (I believe) when Bret Hart was inducted into the Hall of Fame, surely she was aware of Bret's DVD and Owen's likeness being included in it.

Now, Mrs. Hart was justified, from what I know of the lack of safety precautions, in being awarded several million dollars in the wrongful death lawsuit in 1999. I have said what I think about her claim that WWE's using Owen's name sullies the good name of her charity foundation named after Owen, i.e. it's ridiculous. Her only legitimate claim seems to be that WWE has profited from continued use of his likeness when they signed an agreement not to do so, since apparently the Estate, managed by Owen's wife, owns the rights to his name and likeness. Now, there is a lengthy section in that document about the different forms of intellectual property and what Owen signed and agreed to concerning the ownership by either WWE or his Estate, concerning his ring persona and wrestling character.

It is quite complicated and a blanket statement can't be made that 'Owen signed that he didn't want WWE to maintain the rights to his name and likeness'. Obviously, Owen didn't know that he was going to die in a freak accident just several years later. Mrs. Hart makes it out to sound as if Owen knew about his impending death arising from WWE's negligence, and more outrageously, that Owen held a deep contempt for the wrestling business and for WWE in particular. None of this aligns with the facts or with common sense. She is transferring her own biases against pro wrestling onto Owen posthumously, while he has no chance to speak from the grave and provide his own views and correct her many anti-WWE statements which she subtly attributes to him personally, as if she is his personal spokeswoman since his death.

She owns the rights to many parts of his name and likeness, but she does not speak for Owen, and in my opinion WWE would have a valid counter-suit for defamation or slander for the many insults Mrs. Hart and her Foundation have made against WWE, in Owen's name.

 

[Cookie14]

Cookie

Ok, we can go by your argument.

Let's say a company sells your brother a car. When your brother bought it, the company had lied and said nothing was wrong with the car but there was. Because of that lie, your brother ended up in a dangerous accident and died. Would you be able to trust that company again and be able to go buy another car? and would you want them to make profit out of your brother death?.

No, I wouldnt be able to trust that company, and I would never buy anything from them again. But, again using your example, lets say my brother had bought a Ford Mustang. I could not stop Ford from using the 'Mustang' brand. It is an intelectual property that the company (Ford) owns. I could file a 'Wrongful Death' lawsuit (as Martha done, winning $18million).

If I, or my brother (assuming I was his next of Kin) appeared on any kind of Media, I could apply for a 'Banning Order', preventing it from being shown again, something Martha DIDN'T DO. Instead she agreed a contract stating that WWE would not be able to use any footage of Owen that they owned, without permission from Martha. There was never any part of that contract that covered footage of Owen NOT owned by WWE.

This is why someone could purchase the footage of WWE and allow it to be shown. It's also for this reason that any private (non-WWE) footage of Owen is LEGALLY allowed to be used, provided it is not the legal property of Martha Hart.

You should have given up this arguement a long time ago, you're getting your arse handed to you in almost every post.

Cookie, read the post above, WWE does not own anything. Not when there is a damn contract involved.

WWE gave up the rights to use the footage THEY OWNED, they did not give up the OWNERSHIP RIGHTS of that footage. Simply put, WWE still OWN it, they just need permission to USE it. If they SELL it, then the NEW OWNER CAN GIVE PERMISSION to use the footage

 

[tiggly_pinks]

Thanks for providing that document.

\

If that was directed at me, no problem.

She owns the rights to many parts of his name and likeness, but she does not speak for Owen, and in my opinion WWE would have a valid counter-suit for defamation or slander for the many insults Mrs. Hart and her Foundation have made against WWE, in Owen's name.

THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT! Martha keeps saying that this is what Owen would want. Problem is nobody knows what Owen would want because he's not around to tell us. Which is actually a reason Martha should probably let this die. This entire lawsuit is really about Martha and what she wants to happen with the tapes of Owen. The problem with what she wants is that it's erasing one of the most prominent wrestling families from history so that she can "protect" herself and her children. From what, I don't know. I've never heard a bad thing about Owen from WWE and like some people have already said, the kids are never going to forget that their father died no matter what happens.

 

[CenaFan]

Cookie


That isn’t what she’s doing though. You don’t have the right to a ford, but she has the rights to her husband. If and this is a big IF the document says that it’s true that Owen Hart signed away that WWE could not use his name then you know what Martha has every right to go after them. But depends on the situation, you can possibly sue the ford company for not being careful for what they are providing. I don’t think you truly understand what Martha is doing.

I’m not getting my ass handed in every post, you simply don’t know what your talking about or what Martha is talking about. WWE is making profit out of Owen name and that belongs to Martha and Owen. A contract prevents that from happening, even if you don’t like it, that’s to bad because a contract states they are not allowed to use it.

It may not be right but Martha has the right to go after WWE for breaking the contract.

 

[Cookie14]

Cookie


That isn’t what she’s doing though. You don’t have the right to a ford, but she has the rights to her husband. If and this is a big IF the document says that it’s true that Owen Hart signed away that WWE could not use his name then you know what Martha has every right to go after them. But depends on the situation, you can possibly sue the ford company for not being careful for what they are providing. I don’t think you truly understand what Martha is doing.

I’m not getting my ass handed in every post, you simply don’t know what your talking about or what Martha is talking about. WWE is making profit out of Owen name and that belongs to Martha and Owen. A contract prevents that from happening, even if you don’t like it, that’s to bad because a contract states they are not allowed to use it.

It may not be right but Martha has the right to go after WWE for breaking the contract.

How exactly does Martha 'have the rights' to Owen?

When any wrestler signs a contract with WWE (or in WCW back in the day, or a permanent contract with TNA(as in, not appearance based)), they sign over ALL image rights. This means the company OWN, and therefore, are able to profit from anything that bears the image or likeness of said wrestler.

After Owens death, Martha filed, and won, a 'wrongful death' lawsuit, winning over $18 million. Part of this lawsuit was that WWE would not be able to use Owen to make a profit, without permission of Martha Hart.

During the last 11 years, Owen has featured on many WWE DVD's, such as Bret Hart's DVD, Steve Austin's DVD, and at least one King of The Ring DVD.

None of these DVDs (just like the Hart Family DVD) featured Owen's name or likeness in the title. Nor was he the SOLE focus of the DVD, therefore, it is impossible to prove that he alone is responsible for any profit that that DVD makes.

WWE would have broken their contract if they released 'The Owen Hart Story', but they haven't. They are FULLY within their legal rights.

WWE is one of the biggest 'entertainment' companies in the world, spending MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ANNUALLY on their legal team. Do you really think that any company looking to make a profit would release a DVD (average income from an individual's WWE DVD sales - approx $3million, globally) when they are going to be sued for several times more than the total profit that DVD could provide (possibly upto $15million)?

 

[CenaFan]

Cookie

Martha has the right because that's her husband rather you or any of us likes it or not. She is the mother of his kids. She has the right to say what ever the hell she wants, especially if WWE broke a damn contract.

No they do not, it depends on the contract, not everyone has the same contract. Please prove to me that every wrestler signs away all images to WWE and even so, I am providing you with proof that a contract was made and signed by both Linda and Vince mcmahon giving away there right to use Owen name in any merchandise.

They still use Owen's name though in the dvd, that is still using him in a dvd.

Yes I would, especially if they know that people will buy it.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Martha has the right because that's her husband rather you or any of us likes it or not. She is the mother of his kids. She has the right to say what ever the hell she wants, especially if WWE broke a damn contract.

This much is true. She is the executor of his estate, so legally she does represent his party.

No they do not, it depends on the contract, not everyone has the same contract. Please prove to me that every wrestler signs away all images to WWE and even so, I am providing you with proof that a contract was made and signed by both Linda and Vince mcmahon giving away there right to use Owen name in any merchandise.

This part is not so true. They signed contract giving back everything but the New IP, which is everything he did under contract. I'm not sure where on the line the use of his name goes, as it was both his legal name and his stage name. This part is all in the contract, which is found under Exhibit A in the first useful thing you posted. Thank you.

They still use Owen's name though in the dvd, that is still using him in a dvd.

Yes, but as has been established by the documents you've shared, WWE retains control of the stuff he did with the company. This is a legal grey area where lawyers will be fighting for every inch.

Yes I would, especially if they know that people will buy it.

Again, knowing that you could be held liable for up to five times the amount possible made on the sale of every single item pressed? I'll never leave you in charge of a business.

The thing that strikes me the most out of all of this is that the clear objective of Martha Hart is money. Money that may or may not be due to her, but money nonetheless. Not the recall of the product, or the prevention of it's releases in areas it hasn't been yet. Not a total lock down so that no one else anywhere in the world could mention Owen Hart and wrestling in the same breath, or that no one could ever share videos of his performances. No, she's simply after money. Bret himself stated that she isn't practicing what she preaches. I'm inclined to drop the selfish part, temporarily until the results of all of this are released, but I still think she's being a cunt.

 

[CactusJack91]

I was reading through the posts of this, and I notice a few people saying, what legacy did he have, he didn't do much, and doesn't warrant being in the HOF. Here's my opinion on this, and I'm not even going to talk about the lawsuit because I don't know all the ins and outs and it just pisses me off anyways.

First of all, Owen never won a WWE World Championship I'll give you that. But let's be real, either did Rick Rude, or "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan, or Big Boss Man, or Mr. Perfect, or Ted DiBiase, or even Ricky Steamboat, and all of them deserve to be in the HOF and three of them already are, well maybe not Duggan, he's at least in the conversation though, but I digress. And also he debuted for the WWF in 1988, but as the Blue Blazer, they didn't want to push Owen as Bret's younger brother, because Owen had just as much ability as Bret and hell let's be honest I love Bret, Owen had the mic skills of the family. Anyways, Wrestlemania V he loses to Ted DiBiase as the Blue Blazer. So really, Owen Hart didn't debut until 1991 in the New Hart Foundation, so he had 1991-1999, back then in the wrestling business that's not long at all.

In the mid 90s, in the "Attitude Era" everyone praises, Owen is often a forgotten character in the era, but he was a HUGE piece in the WWF puzzle. As a matter of fact think back to the Nation of Domination v. DX, one of the best faction rivalries, of all time, break down the members of NOD. Faarooq, The Rock, Kama Mustafa, D'Lo Brown, Mark Henry, and Owen Hart. Now I mean really think about that list, who doesn't fit? That's how good Owen was, no one else could've pulled that off, nor would anyone want to pull off being the token white dude in an essentially, Black Panther spin off faction. That's how good Owen was. And to make matters worse he ended his career/life with the Blue Blazer also. Let's get this straight, the Blue Blazer never got over with the fans, not even in the crazy good guy bad guy era, and especially in the late 90s smack dab in the middle of a wrestling revolution where drink your milk, take your vitamins faces were not only gone, but despised.

So I've covered his mic skills, let's move to ability. His last name is Hart, isn't that enough? The guy was one of the best in-ring technicians, right up there with Jericho, Malenko, and Benoit, but just a step, and I mean a baby step behind Bret. If you've never seen Owen v. Bret for the WWF Title (sort of) youtube it right now. It's Top 10 greatest matches, ever and I stand behind it. He won 4 Tag Team Champion, 1 Time European Champion, 2 Time Intercontinental Champion, and the 1994 King of the Ring. That's a resume few people in the industry collect, and he never won a World Title. However, if he would've been around still around today, I GUARANTEE you he would've and this legacy question wouldn't even be taking place. And when he won his championship the celebration would've been bigger then Eddie or Benoit, mark my words. He was one of the few people in the business' history who could get himself over as well as his opponent, I don't care if he was wrestling a kid from the Make-a-Wish foundation, he'd make it look beautiful. From every wrestler's book I've read, he was respected, loved, and a leader backstage.

So let's get this straight, does Owen Hart belong in the HOF? You bet your ass he does, without question, here I'll put it his way. If Pete Rose and Bob Uecker are in there, if Owen never makes it, it's a travesty to one of the greatest wrestlers ever who died with several years in the tank. Anyone who doesn't think he belongs in the Hall, do some research.

 

[shattered dreams]

On the credibility issue let us look at these "the most wholesome of all" individuals Bret wants to introduce her kids to. Has the industry really cleaned itself up and has the next generation learned from the mistakes of the past? Well Bret surely worked with Harry Smith. He is absolutely wholesome unlike his father who died at 39 with an assist to wrestling and excessive "steroid cocktails." Or did Harry Smith manage to get himself suspended for wellness policy violations once he made the wwe? Are they really learning? Many wrestlers have been suspended for wellness policy issues that Bret would have worked with. Many others have twisted personal lives, like arguably bret does. Just before Bret hart started Umaga died and just recently Carlito had to be released for his problems. On camera it might be slightly better than it used to be but is far from wholesome, same applies behind the scenes. I mean we just had a gang beatdown that probably played a role in a serious medical condition for a legend. I love wrestling but Bret toeing the company line in spite of other evidence shows which side he chose. I cannot blame anyone for not wanting their kids to be involved in the industry. Their is a very dark side to it that is improving albeit slowly. Think about all the questionable things that have happened in the prowrestling world, both in and out of the ring, since owen's death and tell me with a straight face she is crazy for not wanting her kids involved in that. I also find the more denial about some of the darker problems facing wrestlers, the more likely we are to see other tragedies. Things like Linda McMahon dismissing long-term problems associated with steroids and concussions because it is politically convenient. That alone makes it hard for me to fault anyone not wanting her in public office.

 

[DirtyJosé]

On the credibility issue let us look at these "the most wholesome of all" individuals Bret wants to introduce her kids to. Has the industry really cleaned itself up and has the next generation learned from the mistakes of the past? Well Bret surely worked with Harry Smith. He is absolutely wholesome unlike his father who died at 39 with an assist to wrestling and excessive "steroid cocktails." Or did Harry Smith manage to get himself suspended for wellness policy violations once he made the wwe? Are they really learning? Many wrestlers have been suspended for wellness policy issues that Bret would have worked with. Many others have twisted personal lives, like arguably bret does. Just before Bret hart started Umaga died and just recently Carlito had to be released for his problems. On camera it might be slightly better than it used to be but is far from wholesome, same applies behind the scenes.

You prove nothing about his credibility here. All you've done is point out the obvious; yes, these people are merely human, and make human mistakes and have human weaknesses like anyone else (except you apparently). I'm sure Martha has her own demons to deal with; why don't I dig some of those up and use that to blast her credibility? Oh wait, then she'll just sue me, because all she seems to care about is money. Did you read that stuff? It's pretty heavy handed throughout as trying to paint WWE and the McMahons as evil people for trying to make a profit. How dare they run their own business with the objective of being profitable? I don't need ***** like her trying to ruin good entertainment because she is incapable of either staying the fuck away or keeping her mouth shut.

I mean we just had a gang beatdown that probably played a role in a serious medical condition for a legend.

Oh, I see what you did there, lumping in Ricky Steamboat's current condition with this. What does that have to do with anything? Are you even talking about the subject at hand any more, or are you just veering off into "wrestling is evil, m'kay" territory because you like talking down on fans of the product for being oh-so-human? You sound like an angry soccer mom who expects the world to listen to her every word because she spat out some spawn from her gash.

I love wrestling but Bret toeing the company line in spite of other evidence shows which side he chose.

Yes, the side of "quit being an ignorant childish cunt, Martha".

And toeing the company line for a company you don't work for any longer?

I cannot blame anyone for not wanting their kids to be involved in the industry. Their is a very dark side to it that is improving albeit slowly. Think about all the questionable things that have happened in the prowrestling world, both in and out of the ring, since owen's death and tell me with a straight face she is crazy for not wanting her kids involved in that.

Your world view is distressingly two dimensional. You see only black and white. No one was saying the kids had to jump into a feud with Faarooq right away; you don't think it's pretty fucking stupid that she's kept the kids from their fucking family for 10 fucking years simply because she can't be reminded of wrestling? Stop trying to go to the straw man of "Wrestling is corrupted and evil, so anything Bret says is wrong!".

I also find the more denial about some of the darker problems facing wrestlers, the more likely we are to see other tragedies. Things like Linda McMahon dismissing long-term problems associated with steroids and concussions because it is politically convenient. That alone makes it hard for me to fault anyone not wanting her in public office.

Her steroids defense I have heard, but concussions? You'll have to dig that one up buddy, because I don't believe she has anytime recently. In fact, didn't they do away with unprotected head shots for that very reason?

You can try to be a sanctimonious dick about it all you want: Bret's opinion on the matter means just as much as Martha's. Martha is in control of the estate of Owen Hart, but she does control his memory. I don't care if I have to wait until she is dead to see him in the Hall of Fame. It's just a shame that she will use any chance to attack McMahon (even though she sent him a letter "to make peace" with him years and years ago...what a hypocrite!) and file suit against anyone who dare speak the truth of Owen Hart and what he's remembered for. If this cunt had her way, we'd only remember Owen Hart as a statistic and as an excuse for shitty Ringo Starr concerts.

 

[shattered dreams]

You prove nothing about his credibility here. All you've done is point out the obvious; yes, these people are merely human, and make human mistakes and have human weaknesses like anyone else (except you apparently). I'm sure Martha has her own demons to deal with; why don't I dig some of those up and use that to blast her credibility? Oh wait, then she'll just sue me, because all she seems to care about is money. Did you read that stuff? It's pretty heavy handed throughout as trying to paint WWE and the McMahons as evil people for trying to make a profit. How dare they run their own business with the objective of being profitable? I don't need ***** like her trying to ruin good entertainment because she is incapable of either staying the fuck away or keeping her mouth shut.

Come on. Even the biggest WWE can do no wrong mark will admit that prowrestling has an above average amount of "demons." To pretend that they are at this point some group of entirely wholesome guys is a joke and you know it. Are you not quite heavy handed throughout this thread trying to paint her as a cunt etc.? Why do you get this right and she does not? At least she has actually interacted with the people and provides tangible reasons she is accusing these people of being these things.

Oh, I see what you did there, lumping in Ricky Steamboat's current condition with this. What does that have to do with anything? Are you even talking about the subject at hand any more, or are you just veering off into "wrestling is evil, m'kay" territory because you like talking down on fans of the product for being oh-so-human? You sound like an angry soccer mom who expects the world to listen to her every word because she spat out some spawn from her gash.

I was saying the in-ring actions that led to it were not wholesome. The result is likely more bad publicity for wwe/prowrestling. Is it that crazy that she would rather Owen be associated with a foundation that does good instead of a company that constantly garners negative attention?

Her steroids defense I have heard, but concussions? You'll have to dig that one up buddy, because I don't believe she has anytime recently. In fact, didn't they do away with unprotected head shots for that very reason?

In the 2007 cnn interview with both McMahons they were both quite dismissive of what people were saying scientifically about Benoit brain. The interview is an interesting read because Vince says something about taking out chair shots as the only change he was going to make and the rest is what it is. That is a few years before they actually got around to banning them, not so surprisingly in response to outcry from another tragic loss opposed to their own "findings." The way vince phrased that implies the obvious, which is there are still a lot of way to take some nasty headbumps in wrestling. Denying obvious problems, dragging your feet to fix them and then only doing it reactively instead of proactively is the reason many of these problems still exist.

Continuously blathering incoherent insults, namecalling and generally inaccurate information is hardly a way to make a convincing case for sides you support. It would be nice if you learned that but I am assuming your stupid cunt mom dropped you directly out of her cunt on to your sanctimonious dickface causing wholesome brain properties that unfortunately prevent such non elementary school interactions. I'll let you continue ruining this thread with the garbage you barrage everyone with because I should not let you drag me down to your level like I did here.

 

[Y-2-Jay]

I wasn't backstage but Owen himself stated that he wasn't too happy with how WWE was going even Martha stated it. Iv'e heard stories that Owen Hart was afraid of heights and he never wanted to do this stunt to begin with that is why WWE rehearsed the whole thing before it happened. I even heard Martha state that Owen called her and was saying how upset he was.

A brother relationship is not as thick as a husband and wife. sorry.

Well your a girl you will never understand the relationship between brothers, ever. And again you say "you heard this" and "you read this" you can not make such a strong statement with out real sources, want proof i "read" that Drew Mcintyre will not be back in the WWE for months and now i "read" he will be back next week. Can you get what i am saying? Dont trust what you read with out offical statements. Can you prove Martha even said that?

 

[Validus]

WTF is wrong with her ? Well , if she doesn't want her kids to be reminded of this , then why does she keep bringing it up ? Really , her kids are old enough to handle how their dad died . She is damn selfish .

 

[DirtyJosé]

Come on. Even the biggest WWE can do no wrong mark will admit that prowrestling has an above average amount of "demons." To pretend that they are at this point some group of entirely wholesome guys is a joke and you know it. Are you not quite heavy handed throughout this thread trying to paint her as a cunt etc.? Why do you get this right and she does not? At least she has actually interacted with the people and provides tangible reasons she is accusing these people of being these things.

Everybody has demons, dude. Everyone has problems. Wrestling has problems, MMA has problems, television has problems, everybody. Wrestling problems are deep, and have been there for a long time, far before McMahon came around. Changes don't happen over night, or over a year. So because some guys still have problems, it's alright to just throw the blanket of blame over the whole industry, or even just one company. Wholesome and perfect are two different things, buddy, and you still haven't given any reason why Bret's opinion is any less valid.

I was saying the in-ring actions that led to it were not wholesome. The result is likely more bad publicity for wwe/prowrestling. Is it that crazy that she would rather Owen be associated with a foundation that does good instead of a company that constantly garners negative attention?

It's crazy that she would think that his name would one day never conjure up the image of professional wrestling. The Owen Hart Foundation does some great work, and that's awesome. But she's insane to think she can scrub the industry clean of his memory or his legacy. And excuse me, it has yet revealed that his condition was even related to his work monday night. Jim Ross has even come forward with updates that it wasn't as serious as it was thought to be, and had nothing to do with monday night. When people like you make assumptions and leap to conclusions regarding this industry it only hurts it's image more than almost anything they could do to themselves.

In the 2007 cnn interview with both McMahons they were both quite dismissive of what people were saying scientifically about Benoit brain. The interview is an interesting read because Vince says something about taking out chair shots as the only change he was going to make and the rest is what it is. That is a few years before they actually got around to banning them, not so surprisingly in response to outcry from another tragic loss opposed to their own "findings." The way vince phrased that implies the obvious, which is there are still a lot of way to take some nasty headbumps in wrestling. Denying obvious problems, dragging your feet to fix them and then only doing it reactively instead of proactively is the reason many of these problems still exist.

The last few bits there are quite true. However, aren't other sports just as reactionary, as opposed to being proactive, to their own problems? The Wellness Policy may be tainted with a hint of politics, but it is a significant change from company policy in the past, be it WWE or WCW or ECW or any other promotion from the modern era. And I'm not even really for the idea of putting Linda in office, but if one is convinced to work against her, why not try doing it the right way and through the proper channels if the arguments are that rock solid, as opposed to filing a last minute lawsuit designed for sensational headlines? Oh that's right, because she's a cunt who is just after the money. She's saying one thing and suing for another.

Continuously blathering incoherent insults, namecalling and generally inaccurate information is hardly a way to make a convincing case for sides you support. It would be nice if you learned that but I am assuming your stupid cunt mom dropped you directly out of her cunt on to your sanctimonious dickface causing wholesome brain properties that unfortunately prevent such non elementary school interactions. I'll let you continue ruining this thread with the garbage you barrage everyone with because I should not let you drag me down to your level like I did here.

But you'll be thinking of me all night, baby. Hey I didn't take it to your mom (I just gave it to her, OH!), but that's quite alright. I am well aware of what I can do and say within the rules, which have no accounting for taste. So, I'm crass, vulgar, and disrespectful...sure, I'll accept that. But you're worse than that: you're just wrong.

 

[Davi323]

This entire lawsuit hinges on ONE key idea. That the terms of the wrongful death lawsuit, which Martha won, essentially banned the WWE from using a portion of its video library.

We have to get a few things straight. Any appearance a wrestler makes in an official capacity while working for a wrestling company is the intellectual property of that company. This is not a WWE exclusive notion, it applies to TNA, it applies to ROH, it applies to sports. It's why they can show matches that involve former employees who are no longer affiliated with the WWE, it's why football games have that "you cannot record blah blah blah without the express written consent of the National Football League" message. The WWE owns all images and likenesses of its wrestlers that relate to their employment. The WWE does not own home movies, they do not own childhood photos, but they do legally own all footage that occurred during WWE programming, or during a WWE event.

They didn't own the likeness of Owen Hart the private Canadian citizen, they owned the likeness of Owen Hart, wrestling personality. Owen used his own name for most of his WWE career, but that is irrelevant. It would be the same whether he went by Owen Hart or the Blue Blazer. Any footage on WWE TV belongs to the WWE, period.

According to Martha, the WWE using Owen Hart (the wrestler) in a DVD about the Hart family violates the terms of their wrongful death settlement. Okay, she will have the opportunity to prove that. I don't know what that agreement states, so I am not going to state whether the WWE is violating it or not. There are few possibilities here.

1. It's possible that the agreement does not bar any references to either Owen Hart the man, or Owen Hart the wrestler, that there was no legal provision written in to account for it.

I find this to be unlikely. I simply do not believe that there wasn't any accounting for this type of thing, plus if there isn't, than Martha has absolutely no legs to stand on, and she will be laughed out of court. I think we can dismiss option 1, even without knowing the exact terms of the contract, because the idea that neither side would make provisions to account for Owen's likeness is both ridiculous and incredibly short sighted.

2. It's possible that the agreement bars any and all references to Owen Hart, as both a man and a wrestler. This would mean that the WWE cannot mention Owen Hart, cannot show any footage of Owen Hart, period.

This is Martha's position. According to Martha, these are the terms of the contract, and the grounds for her lawsuit. This is a possible scenario. Until we see the actual terms of the original settlement, we don't know if it is valid legally or not. You can file a lawsuit and not be legally correct.

3. It's possible that the agreement bars only references to Owen Hart the man, in his private life, but professional references, as the intellectual property of the WWE, remain in their possession, and they can utilize that likeness in the manner of their choosing.

This to me, seems the most likely scenario. The WWE has intellectual rights over its own broadcasts, and it seems unlikely that even with what happened to Owen, that in addition to the cash she received, that a judge would also ban a significant portion of the WWE's video library. Had that been the case, the WWE would have filed an immediate appeal...but that didn't happen, which makes me think that the WWE retained the professional likeness of Owen. I suspect that the issue in this lawsuit is what the boundaries are between the likeness of Owen Hart, private man, which Martha probably owns, and the likeness of Owen Hart, professional wrestler, which the WWE probably owns.

Basically, that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Martha isn't going to sue if there wasn't any substance at all to her complaint, and the WWE isn't going to use Owen's likeness without reason to believe they have a legitimate right to do it. The WWE lawyers would certainly have researched legal issues before giving the okay for the DVD to be produced. If they didn't, what the hell is Vince McMahon paying them for? This is exactly the kind of thing company lawyers do.

I have read a lot of posts on this thread that simply assume one way or the other. In a legal dispute, you simply cannot do that. Unless you have specific first hand knowledge of the issue, you simply don't know. I don't know. None of us knows.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I believe it all boils down to who has the rights to Owen Hart's likeliness. If Martha has the rights to Owen Hart then in all fairness WWE shouldn't air anything. However, if she signed away the rights or if Owen signed them away then she has no lawsuit whatsoever. Another thing would be royalties. All wrestlers and talent in either the wrestling business or television industry receive royalties from their work. Martha should be receiving any and all royalties of Owen Hart. If she is receiving them then she shouldn't be complaining, but if she isn't then she has a huge case against WWE.

I really don't know who is right or wrong in this case. If WWE is in the wrong then they should be ashamed for not giving Martha royalties or closure. If Martha is in the wrong then she should let this rest once and for all. She shouldn't hide Owen Hart's legacy from the fans, but if she has the ownership to his rights then it really isn't up to the fans it is up to her. She is the widow and the mother of Owen's children. If she is in the right then Owen's fans should respect her.

Obviously though if this is just a publicity stunt or a stunt for more money then fans shouldn't have any respect for her.

 

[RiVaLGaMeR]

I dont really see what to agree with... you basically listed the facts and the sides of the story. Theres no need to agree or disagree just post feelings about it.

If Bret Hart supports it, you know its not a bad thing. That lady is bitter, and wants money from it now, who knows if she got something from them for his accident. Her kids are smart enough not to watch it if they cant handle looking at their father and enjoying his career. I guess no kid has pride in what their father was in the Hart family. Sarcastic? VERY. Its a TRIBUTE that means hey we miss him, sorry it happened, wish he could have changed it. Lets let people pay money to keep a DVD they can watch for a life time about a great wrestler. Geeze sorry that she doesnt want anyone remembering her husband, gold digger.