Owen Hart's legacy being destroyed.

[WWE Manster03]

I can really sum this up simply: there are 2 ways to looks at this.

Martha's side:
She lost her husband and the father of her 2 children doing something that he really shouldn't of done in the first place. She was well within her rights to sue for wrongful death and I'm glad she did. She got 18million for it, and while it doesn't make up for losing it does definately ADAQUETELY cover the lost income. Someone posted his annual income had gone up to $400,000 a year I believe, and that is a good many years salary even after taxes.

WWE's side:
Per the agreement, WWE had to pay $18 million in the 1st lawsuit and Martha agreed to accept that amount. Case closed. Fast forward 11 years and now she is claiming a breech in an agreement for licensing issues. If I'm not mistaken WWE does own all rights to Owen's likeness,footage, and character. They agreed not to use those to turn a profit and they haven't. The ONLY thing that has come close to violating this was the Hart and Soul DVD that was recently released. That didn't focus on Owen, and from my quick look through it while my friend watched it I don't recall Owen being mentioned all that much in there. It was mostly Bret/Stu/Anvil/and interviews with the other brothers about growing up with the dungeon in their basement. Shit, Bret even came out with his brother's face on his shirt. The ENTIRE Hart family is obviously ok with the WWE now, and I honestly have a feeling that Martha is not on speaking terms or at least very formal terms with her family. I lost my father to a heart attack on the 4th of July. We fought the day before and I told him I never want to see him again and I hoped he died. 10 years later, I still think about him but I understand how and why he died. I don't like it but I live. Mollycoddling your children doens't help them get over things. It just shows what type of society we live in now where the first knee-jerk reaction is to file a lawsuit on someone.

I agree with 90% of this forum that if she was upset about this, she would of filed this suit the DAY that the Hart and Soul DVD was announced, because then technically WWE would be making money using Owen's likeness(although we know that can't be the case because then she would of forced them to remove all VHS/DVD copies of PPV's with his matches on them and that didn't happen)....I think she just wants to sabotage Linda's senate campaign, as do many people that hold a grudge against the McMahons. Personally I don't think she deserves another penny because IMO no agreement has been broken.

 

[Davi323]

The only part of this lawsuit that matters at all is what that little piece of paper says. Unless the WWE signed over to Martha all rights to video footage of Owen, she has no legal standing. Owen Hart's WWE matches, promos, etc are the intellectual property of the WWE, and would remain so unless they specifically gave up those rights. Owens Hart the man and Owen Hart the wrestler are not equivalent. Any appearances on WWE film while he was under contract with the WWE belong to the WWE and not to Martha...If Martha owns ALL likeness rights, fine. I just don't think the WWE would ever legally sign away a portion of their video library.

I am not going to judge Martha's motivations, I don't know her, don't know if it's greed or genuine. All I want to know is what rights the WWE kept, and what rights to Owen's name they didn't keep. That is the only thing of relevance to this lawsuit.

 

[TheAnimal]

Its easy to say, but she should allow WWE to do the HOF with Owen inducted and even make the action figures because it can alloy the family and Martha herself to celebrate his life/his career. He loved wrestling and his family so it would be wonderful if the two could come to some arrangement.

Obviously the circumstances surrounding his death are tragic and the lawsuits timing seems to have been premeditated because of the senate campaign but hopefully there comes a time when she realises it, maybe when his children are older they may be able to convince her.

 

[Low_Ki]

This is a very delicate situation.

As a fan, I think the whole thing is unfair. As you rightly pointed out, Owen was a man of the people, someone who came out each and every night and put his body on the line just like everyone else and wrestling was...and still is his legacy. I for one am screaming for him to be in the Hall Of Fame, and although I know very little about the lawsuit that Martha is bringing forward, if that is stopping him from being put into the Hall Of Fame, I believe that to be a very sad, and selfish act. His legacy is being tarnished and the closure that so many may need will not come about until everybody lets him rest. This is not to say that Martha's loss is less than that of the the wrestling world, because that would be wrong to assume. But 11 years on and Owen still cannot be honored, I think its time to let go.

But I guess, on a professional level, in the eyes of the law, I guess the WWE is wrong for using his likenesses. I'm sure it is being blown out of all proportion, and I refuse to believe that after 11 years Martha still hasn't at least tried to get on with her life. Her children are old enough now to understand what happened to their father, but again in the eyes of the law, unfortunately it looks like this thing is going to drag on...again, and I just hope for Owen's sake, that this thing doesn't go the distance it did the first time. Owen Hart for the Hall Of Fame!

 

[Mustang Sally]

Bret even came out with his brother's face on his shirt.

Did that actually happen? Because if it did, it would severely damage Martha's case. If the contract signed between WWE and Martha is what she says it is, it's hard to believe that McMahon would be foolish enough to openly violate it. Someone said earlier in this thread that the original contract states that WWE can display Owen's image as long as they don't profit from it. If that's the case, I'm sure WWE will be able to prove they didn't violate the terms.

But what's bothering me more than anything is: If the usage of Owen's image is so devastating to Martha, why is she only now filing the lawsuit? WWE has been honoring Owen for years by using his likeness.

Why now?

 

[TheAnimal]

Another thing that gets me is that she says she has "worked tirelesslyto disassociate Owen's name and likeness from anything related to WWE in order to protect our children from any reminder of the circumstances surrounding their father's death, and to avoid any misplaced perception that I endorse WWE.


"Unfortunately, even though WWE, Vince McMahon and Linda McMahon were and are well aware of my wishes and desire to shield my children from WWE and its activities, I was shocked to learn earlier this year that they have been using Owen's name and likeness in videos, websites, television programs and print materials."

Well they have been showing his matches on vintage collection for 1, plus the new DVD about the hart family legacy. So if that were true then she would have the second they showed old matches of Owen on vintage collection, because there have been a hell of a lot.

 

[Blush]

Just a question/thought, but I was wondering how the footage (Which I believe is owned by WWE, and not Martha) would possibly affect another wrestlers legacy? For example, how can you have a Stone Cold DVD without the matches between him and Owen? (Or the piledriver that shelved him) Or Owen and Bret? Or the stables he was in?

I don't see how WWE would sign off a big chunk of years feud footage at the expense of other wrestlers participation/livelihoods/reels. It's very different than just changing the entrance music or blurring out a few WWF logos. (Even tho on some of the DVD's, it seems to be randomly done)

Maybe other than the Hart & Soul DVD, she heard that they're releasing the best of years DVD's?

 

[Loso]

Okay, I could be a the bad guy here, but what legacy are we talking about? He won the IC a couple times, the Tag Team four times and won King of the Ring. Everyone is calling for him to be in the Hall of Fame, but he didn't do enough to be worthy of being in the Hall of Fame. I grew up watching wrestling and the only matches that stood out were between him and his brother, Bret. The Stone Cold one only because of what happened to Austin. I just don't remember Owen being that big of a deal and probably never getting to World Champion Status. And where has his name been at on WWE stuff? Granted, I don't watch the DVDs and haven't scoured the website, but where is it at? The only time I even think of Owen is when a member on his has his sig of a picture of Owen Hart and my friend writing an Onion-like piece on how the turnbuckle was injured (granted, it was a good six years after the death). Maybe someone can help me remember what Owen Hart did that was soooo great that this has every member of the IWC upset.

Yeah...he only won the IC title?? How about this buddy it was at a time when the IC title actually meant something. He had good tag team runs with Yokozuna and Bulldog.....Great feuds with Austin and Triple H....and was good in his role as a member of the foundation. Didn't you see the match between him and Bret at WM X? They had a great feud leading up. He beat Bret. Bret later went on that night to win the WWF title.

 

[shattered dreams]

I wish some people would take the time to read the lawsuit instead of just spouting off. I would like to make one thing clear, she is obviously doing this in part to hurt the McMahon campaign. Now I have no opinion either way on that political race but I firmly believe she has every right to feel a McMahon should not win the position she is after. According to her, they sued her after Owen died because they felt her wrongful death suit was illegal. This intimidation tactic obviously failed. So if you feel so strongly that using lawsuits to attempt to get what you think is in your best interest is so heinous then the McMahons are equally at fault. Martha claims they have never even apologized for the entire situation. If I felt that way I might have a hard time forgiving them as well if they seem to maintain there is nothing to forgive in spite of settling for 18 million for what reason again?

I read about half the lawsuit and it basically said Martha felt the rights to what Owen had done prior to signing with the wwf reverted back to his estate after the contract was terminated. One of the big issues for her is that on the Hart family dvd there are pictures and maybe some other stuff from Owen's youth (meaning before signing). She also believes Owen's estate is owed for his appearances in these projects. The estate has not been paid a dime for anything ever since his death which IMO seems curious when owen is allegedly on the outer cover of the Hart family dvd. WWE should have at least seen this coming because she already had done some legal action in canada based on the Hart family dvd. She is not "greedy" because she has not thrown out some crazy number she wants, simply asking the court for whatever they think is fair compensation for his appearances.

I know it is different circumstances but the McMahon's have eliminated Benoit from practically everything and they continue to play the "not my fault" game with comments Linda has made about concussions stuff being inconclusive. Yep, so inconclusive wwe has put in tons of in-ring measures to avoid such happenings. Can you really blame Martha for not want another person in office who will do anything for money and yet never take any personal responsibility? Can you really blame her for not wanting them to profit from her husbands death and being angry that when they do not even paying his estate for it?

 

[Splinter48708]

just read JR's comments on the matter and I have to ask, who gives a shit what the fans want with regards to Owen, ultimately, what would Owen have wanted?? I keep bringing up this point but Owen wanted to be iwth his family, so he would want whatever they want. If they want the WWE to not make a single cent off of him anymore then they should get it! IMO martha should be able to make them go back and edit owen from everything should she choose similar to benoit and the WWF logo. As a fan i liked owen and it'd suck to not see some of his best work on future dvds, but its her prerogative really. As for Owen in the HOF, i'm glad Martha will fight that, let's all be honest, the chances of Owen getting into the HOF had he not fallen were slim at best. Putting him in jsut because he died in the ring is an insult, it's pure guilt being the reason. If anything, WWE needs to just respect her wishes, they are hte ones going after the sympathy for owen when it was their fault he's gone. She has every right to want his image gone from that company, just like they chose to completely erase benoit from wrestlings history books

There's a huge difference, though. Owen's death was an accident, plain and simple. He was still in his prime at the time of his fatal fall and was planning on retiring no later than 2004.

Chris Benoit had enjoyed a long wrestling career and for whatever reason snapped and took out his wife, son and then himself. He was past his prime be a few years and took too many chairshots to the noggin. I have no idea if he was ever planning to retire after a certain time.

Owen deserves to be remembered for the man he was, not the way he died. He deserves the recognition and the honor of being with Bret in the HoF. Not for a sentimental reason or because he was a Hart, though. Because he was a guy, like those who set the table before him, worked hard, each and every day to be a bread-winner first, and a performer second.

Benoit may get into the HoF at some point, once emotions have cooled off over his death and the death of his wife and son. I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do in erasing Benoit and his accomplishments from the wrestling timeline. Like Owen, he was dedicated to the business and until the day he finally snapped, was a good family man. But, for the time being, I kind of agree with Vince in distancing the company from Benoit for a few years. Hopefully, though, this to will pass and Benoit will be inducted and given the honors he earned. I do not agree that he threw them all away with a double murder-suicide. We'll never know what caused him to do that because he took that to the grave.

I'll admit mixed feelings towards Benoit. One one hand, you have a great wrestler who deserves the honors due him. OTOH, he took out his wife, son and himself, so maybe forfeited those honors.

I know, though, that Owen should be given any honors from WWE that he earned and to hell with Martha.

 

[Splinter48708]

I wish some people would take the time to read the lawsuit instead of just spouting off. I would like to make one thing clear, she is obviously doing this in part to hurt the McMahon campaign. Now I have no opinion either way on that political race but I firmly believe she has every right to feel a McMahon should not win the position she is after. According to her, they sued her after Owen died because they felt her wrongful death suit was illegal. This intimidation tactic obviously failed. So if you feel so strongly that using lawsuits to attempt to get what you think is in your best interest is so heinous then the McMahons are equally at fault. Martha claims they have never even apologized for the entire situation. If I felt that way I might have a hard time forgiving them as well if they seem to maintain there is nothing to forgive in spite of settling for 18 million for what reason again?

I read about half the lawsuit and it basically said Martha felt the rights to what Owen had done prior to signing with the wwf reverted back to his estate after the contract was terminated. One of the big issues for her is that on the Hart family dvd there are pictures and maybe some other stuff from Owen's youth (meaning before signing). She also believes Owen's estate is owed for his appearances in these projects. The estate has not been paid a dime for anything ever since his death which IMO seems curious when owen is allegedly on the outer cover of the Hart family dvd. WWE should have at least seen this coming because she already had done some legal action in canada based on the Hart family dvd. She is not "greedy" because she has not thrown out some crazy number she wants, simply asking the court for whatever they think is fair compensation for his appearances.

I know it is different circumstances but the McMahon's have eliminated Benoit from practically everything and they continue to play the "not my fault" game with comments Linda has made about concussions stuff being inconclusive. Yep, so inconclusive wwe has put in tons of in-ring measures to avoid such happenings. Can you really blame Martha for not want another person in office who will do anything for money and yet never take any personal responsibility? Can you really blame her for not wanting them to profit from her husbands death and being angry that when they do not even paying his estate for it?

What gets me here is why would Martha Hart even insert herself into an election that isn't even in her country? It should be irrelevant to her, and the timing of this is really questionable. It does tell me that she wants to sabotage a US Election in a state thousands of miles away from Calgary.

Regardless...this will have the desired effect of distracting Linda McMahon from her campaign. Makes me wonder if someone didn't convince Martha to sue. Maybe the campaign has the "Big Mo" and someone wants Linda defeated. Who knows???

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

There's a huge difference, though. Owen's death was an accident, plain and simple. He was still in his prime at the time of his fatal fall and was planning on retiring no later than 2004.

Chris Benoit had enjoyed a long wrestling career and for whatever reason snapped and took out his wife, son and then himself. He was past his prime be a few years and took too many chairshots to the noggin. I have no idea if he was ever planning to retire after a certain time.

Owen deserves to be remembered for the man he was, not the way he died. He deserves the recognition and the honor of being with Bret in the HoF. Not for a sentimental reason or because he was a Hart, though. Because he was a guy, like those who set the table before him, worked hard, each and every day to be a bread-winner first, and a performer second.

Benoit may get into the HoF at some point, once emotions have cooled off over his death and the death of his wife and son. I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do in erasing Benoit and his accomplishments from the wrestling timeline. Like Owen, he was dedicated to the business and until the day he finally snapped, was a good family man. But, for the time being, I kind of agree with Vince in distancing the company from Benoit for a few years. Hopefully, though, this to will pass and Benoit will be inducted and given the honors he earned. I do not agree that he threw them all away with a double murder-suicide. We'll never know what caused him to do that because he took that to the grave.

I'll admit mixed feelings towards Benoit. One one hand, you have a great wrestler who deserves the honors due him. OTOH, he took out his wife, son and himself, so maybe forfeited those honors.

I know, though, that Owen should be given any honors from WWE that he earned and to hell with Martha.

I agree with you, Vince did the right thing distancing himself from benoit and I do see the differences in the situations for sure. But i also see how Martha can put the two in the same boat. Owen's death wasn't murder, but it wasn't just bad luck or a dumb accident. It was negligence on the WWE's part that led to his death (if they hadn't settled I'm sure it would have been the result anyways) and but for the WWE she would still have her husband. Yea he could have died a million ways, but he didn't, it happened working for them. And he's not bret, he didn't die doing something he lived for, he died doing something that helped him make a living. Yea, he enjoyed it I'm sure but his family was way more to him than wrestling ever will be (unlike Flair). If being mentioned in wrestling and being in the HOF caused his family pain (which it clearly does) then I'm willing to bet he'd rather be left out. Obviously I never knew Owen and am only speaking from interviews I've heard but I don't think I'm wrong.

As for the election, she has a right to voice her opinion, even if it doesn't necessarily directly involve her. IMO Linda has no business being in office, Martha clearly feels the same. It's funny, its wrong for Martha to hurt Linda's campaign, yet Linda's campaign got to play a role in the lives of every employee in WWE AND moreso Bryan Danielson's livelihood.


Finally, no one is saying Martha has a problem with fans remembering Owen, just the WWE profiting from it. Oh you don't think by having stuff from Owen's past htey aren't profiting?? I am a huge fan of the harts, but in all honesty, hearing them talk about Owen definitely was something that I looked forward to hearing and I'm sure it made a difference to some ppl on the fence on that dvd. If WZ put Owen in their Hall of Fame I highly doubt Martha would be mad or care, what she cares about is the brazen way WWE is still profiting off her husbands death despite being the reason for it.

 

[Davi323]

If this is about images from before Owen's WWF days, how did the WWF/E obtain those images? They would have to have been given them. As with most companies, I am sure that there are clauses that allow the WWE to use any media submitted to that company in any way they see fit...and that those rights don't revert back to original owners. Basically, once they receive childhood images, etc from a person owning those rights, they have carte blanche to use them.

 

[gers09]

i agree she going a bit far and i think bring up the law suit is more likely to bring up how he died than wwe showing owen face in videos and that with wwe doing what they have been doing what have we been remembering how he died or how a fantastic wrestler he was i saw how fantastic he was and what he did for wrestling my heart went out to his family when he died i still remember being told the next day he had died and as a wrestling fan still miss seeing him in the ring

the videos wwe has been showing has been showing him in the ring or promos not that tragic day or have they said anything about it it is Martha hart that has made us all remember that tragic horrible day one of the best wrestlers to tie up a pair of boots died

 

[shattered dreams]

What gets me here is why would Martha Hart even insert herself into an election that isn't even in her country? It should be irrelevant to her, and the timing of this is really questionable. It does tell me that she wants to sabotage a US Election in a state thousands of miles away from Calgary.

Regardless...this will have the desired effect of distracting Linda McMahon from her campaign. Makes me wonder if someone didn't convince Martha to sue. Maybe the campaign has the "Big Mo" and someone wants Linda defeated. Who knows???

Isn't it obvious? She does not want a McMahon in political office. She has every reason to believe that is a bad idea. If we are defending the wwe for legally using the footage, why are we bashing Martha for legally filing a lawsuit? This is within her rights and she is not saying anything false. Courts will likely rule in wwe favor mostly but how do you "sabotage" an election with the truth? I guess everyone that tells the facts is trying to sabotage an elction. Man, there are a lot of saboteurs outs there these days. Even Linda commenting on the lawsuit is two-faced and greatly stretches the truth. She plays it off like wwe gave Martha that money out of the goodness of their hearts to make sure her and the kids were provided for. She conveniently neglected to mention the part where they initially tried to stonewall her.

 

[Nicole13Edge/HardyFan]

I think that Martha has a right to sue if the WWE is violating their agreement. Which the WWE is I think, they did show some footage of Owen to promote the new Hart DVD.

I understand Martha wanting to protect her children. I mean you guys are talking about how they are old enough to deal with their fathers death they may be but its still painful for them. I mean his son Oje was only seven when his dad died and his daughter Athena was only three when her dad died. So that means now his kids are eighteen and fourteen it doesnt matter how old they get or how much time has passed since their fathers death it is still going to be painful for them to think about how their dad died.

As for Linda's sentate campigne I do hope this causes problems in her campainge I dont think that she needs to win and I can't wait for her stupid campaige to be over.

As for Owen being put in the HOF I hope they do put him in the HOF. I mean I never saw Owen Hart I was only four when he died but I have heard about him and he sounded like he was a great wrestler so I hope that they do put him in the HOF. However if it causes his family pain I doubt they will no matter how deserving he is of it and he is very deserving of it.

 

[darqknyt]

You know what...I'm probably going to get a ton of heat for this: But I think Martha's also damaging Owen's legacy by making this such a big issue.I think she's going to have to decide whether she want's royalties from the use of Owen's likeness, or whether she want's him pulled from all WWE content.
At least now its beginning to make sense why Owen hasnt been inducted in the H.O.F.It may have nothing to do with Vince being an asshole, but rather because Martha refused to.

 

[Max Moon]

It's certainly not me, man. I'm saying that Martha is so filled with bitterness that she's not willing to fully move on and let Owen Hart be properly remembered. He was the son of Stu Hart, the brother of Bret Hart, brother-in-law to Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart, a loving husband and a good dad who loved his then young children. He was going to retire from the ring within 4-5 years after his unforeseen death.

I'm sorry you are offended by this thread. Only Martha can drop this lawsuit and make peace with the McMahons and the WWE. Nothing I say or anyone else on here can do that. Some here have agreed with Martha's decision and others are agreeing with me that Owen's in ring legacy is being attacked. That's a person's right to agree or disagree and I respect all the opinions.

Please don't try to engage in a flame war or other insults. If you have a logical argument why you disagree...I'm more inclined to listen to respectful debate/disagreement. Calling me selfish is illogical and an insult. It's also an insult to Owen's memory as well.

Whether or not you liked or hated Owen shouldn't matter now. He *died* in a mishap that was unavoidable...totally unavoidable. He told folks that he was uncomfortable doing the stunt and he was told to do it anyway. Had they listened to Owen's instincts screaming "NO", he's still be alive and happily retired, having ensured a comfortable living and his kids education in the process...and we would not be having this discussion. A life was lost that fateful night that shouldn't have been.

Alright dude, sorry I offended you. But you saying that I insulted Owen Hart's legacy by calling you selfish is, well, the most self indulgent thing I may have ever heard. No offense man, it's insane. My argument, plain and simple is that Martha's husband (someone you and a lot of other posters had called a loving husband and a great family man) died because the WWE were reckless. What makes anyone think that he would want to be involved, or want his wife to allow his legacy to be involved in the company that killed him and took him away from his family? Get it? He's dead. No more family. Wrestling was clearly his passion, but family is family. Martha should be bitter. For the rest of her life. It does kind of suck that he may never be a hall of famer, but it sucks more that his kids don't have a father. How anyone can argue that, I have no clue.

 

[dotty_84]

Okay, I could be a the bad guy here, but what legacy are we talking about? He won the IC a couple times, the Tag Team four times and won King of the Ring. Everyone is calling for him to be in the Hall of Fame, but he didn't do enough to be worthy of being in the Hall of Fame. .

I was 15 when he died and i was gutted, i wasn't a fan of him but i knew the guy had talent.

You say he won the IC a couple of times and Tag teams belts back then they were great belts to have, Mr Perfect, Bret, HBK all had the IC and were proud around mid 90's.

He's not worthy he was great in the ring people might say he was in Brets shadow but i didn't think that Bret had good gimmick merch that's all he had over Owen.

He was a rare wrestler who was great in Tags and singles. Something you don't see much these days.

Martha for me is picking this stupidly is this for greed or slating McMahons i think it's a double whammy, WWE has always always protrayed Owen brilliantly. You can't hide his death from the kids all their lives. If it were me i'd want to know and then i'd see how he was a fantastic wrestler i'd be proud to be his son and his legacy.

 

[psykohurricane]

I get where she comes from, she doesn'T want her childrens to remember how their father's die and i get it and even if Vince ask the entire Hart family if it was o.k. to talk about Owen and put matches of Owen on the DVD, he didn'T ask Martha about it and that's a copyright violation since he made a deal with her 11 years ago and is going back on the term of the deal. But at the same time if she suing Mcmahon over this, she should be suing the entire hart family since they gave permission to Vince to use the footage and talk about Owen on the DVD, She should sue Bret for wearing a shirt with him and owen's face on it on national t.v.

Let's face it, it's a well known fact that even when Owen's was alive, Martha never liked wrestling and never liked the fact that Owen was a wrestler. Wrestling took here husband away from her and i can't even imagine how she feel about it but she should stop focusing on how Owen's die and remember how good of a person Owen was and how by wrestling brought joy to millions of peoples, her kids deserve to remember their dad not just as the great human being he was but how great of a performer he was in the ring, she got no right to hide this part of Owen'S life to her kids.

This lawsuit isn't about the money, it's all about a mother trying to hide a part of her husband's life to her kids and by doing so she not being fair to her kids.

 

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

OP is right. It has been 11 years since his tragic death, and his kids know how to deal with it now. They're both 18 and 14 now. They're old enough to be able to deal with what happened. Will they ever forget how their father died? No of course not. In my opinion, this is just another case of Martha being "greedy." I'm almost certain that Owen would want her to allow the WWE to still use footage of him, and to still mention him. Owen gave his life for this business, he ate and breathed the wrestling business. What Martha is doing to his legacy right now makes me sick. Yes, he husband died in a very tragic accident, but that is no reason to not allow him to be affiliated with the WWE.

 

[shattered dreams]

I am sure people will focus on the wrong parts of Bret Hart's response to this because people always like to hear from someone theoretically credible that supports their side. The problem is Bret Hart is only theoretically credible in this instance. He admits he does not know the kids anymore and that he does not speak to Martha. The two obviously have a strained relationship and you are not exactly getting unbiased information. If you want to criticize Martha for inserting her "selfish" viewpoint then surely Bret is doing the same, much like many have done throughout this thread. I believe Martha accused Bret of needing money when he went back to Vince to do the Hall of Fame. Which is an interesting accusation considering that at the end of what is supposed to be some deep response he plugs buying hitman stuff. Seems suspiciously out of place IMO. To me Bret loses major points when he claims she has done nothing to keep his memory alive. That is total bs unless the only way to keep his memory alive is to focus on one specific part of what he did with his life. Since that is ******ed I have a hard time taking Bret seriously in this post.

 

[DirtyJosé]

The Hart family, like many others, has it's problems and it's grudges. Martha Hart can feel how she will about wrestling, but it's shameful of her to feel that she controls his legacy or lack thereof. WWE didn't put out the DVD set solely to make money off of Owen; the release was a tribute to the family and a gesture towards rebuilding the working relationship between Bret Hart and the WWE.

I am sure people will focus on the wrong parts of Bret Hart's response to this because people always like to hear from someone theoretically credible that supports their side.

Theoretically? He is his brother and worked with him for many many many years. That's pretty damn credible if you ask me. More so than a vindictive woman out to trash her dead husband's legacy in the interest of getting recognition and going one up against the McMahon family.

The problem is Bret Hart is only theoretically credible in this instance. He admits he does not know the kids anymore and that he does not speak to Martha. The two obviously have a strained relationship and you are not exactly getting unbiased information.

Perhaps because the crazy bitch decided to hide themselves away from the rest of the family and persuade the children that their family and the work they do are evil. If these people had a meaningful stance to make, don't you think they would have at least tried to talk to Uncle Bret first? You fail to make any point as to why Bret's response is merely "theoretically" credible.

If you want to criticize Martha for inserting her "selfish" viewpoint then surely Bret is doing the same, much like many have done throughout this thread. I believe Martha accused Bret of needing money when he went back to Vince to do the Hall of Fame. Which is an interesting accusation considering that at the end of what is supposed to be some deep response he plugs buying hitman stuff. Seems suspiciously out of place IMO.

Except that it's on a website designed to sell merchandise and spread news, which his post does both of. Oh no! Someone's out to make a buck, just like the rest of the fucking world!! He's a liar, and a schemer, and he doesn't care about anything because he wants a paycheck!!! It only seems out of place because you're a TNA mark looking for any chance to fling shit.

To me Bret loses major points when he claims she has done nothing to keep his memory alive. That is total bs unless the only way to keep his memory alive is to focus on one specific part of what he did with his life. Since that is ******ed I have a hard time taking Bret seriously in this post.

I love people like you that grasp one thing they don't agree with and shut out everything else because they've made it their hill to die on. What has the cunt done to keep his memory alive? Nothing, at least nothing outside of her and her kids. That's great for them, but there is a whole world of wrestling fans out there, young and old, who wish to be able to celebrate Owen's life and accomplishments, and to be able to share his greatness with a new generation of fans. Did the DVD center on Owen? Does the WWE use his name and imagery at every opportunity to garner attention and/or profit (like, say, Martha has)? No and no. She is being an irrational bitch, and it's a shame that her inability to do anything in her life but grasp for attention via her dead husband has alienated his children from their extended family.

 

[CenaFan]

Martha has every right to go after WWE for making Owen do a stunt that he never wanted to do to begin with.

Vince does not own anything if there was a contract signed that stated that they were not to use Owen hart in any footage or anything like that.

If WWE broke that contract that Martha has every right to go after them.

This isn't about what we want. This is about the family and what they want.

From what I understand, Owen was not happy at all the few months that he was with the company and WWE didn't respect him, so why start now and make a profit out of it?

IMO that is just horrible.

 

[shattered dreams]

The Hart family, like many others, has it's problems and it's grudges. Martha Hart can feel how she will about wrestling, but it's shameful of her to feel that she controls his legacy or lack thereof. WWE didn't put out the DVD set solely to make money off of Owen; the release was a tribute to the family and a gesture towards rebuilding the working relationship between Bret Hart and the WWE.

First off, if you think Martha can feel how she wants about wrestling, you sure have a strange way of showing it. Second, the WWE does not make these DVDs if they think they will not be profitable period. How is this a gesture to rebuild a working relationship that releases 4 months after Bret hart has been working with the company on a weekly basis?

Theoretically? He is his brother and worked with him for many many many years. That's pretty damn credible if you ask me. More so than a vindictive woman out to trash her dead husband's legacy in the interest of getting recognition and going one up against the McMahon family.

Yep, people will definitely take you seriously when you explain such not at all ridiculous notions like Martha's goal is to trash her husband's legacy. The reason he is not credible is that he does not know the kids and he admits it. Yet, he goes on to comment about it. If those two obviously have their issues how is Bret a credible source of unbiased information about her, especially when he was just working for the other party in the lawsuit?

Perhaps because the crazy bitch decided to hide themselves away from the rest of the family and persuade the children that their family and the work they do are evil. If these people had a meaningful stance to make, don't you think they would have at least tried to talk to Uncle Bret first? You fail to make any point as to why Bret's response is merely "theoretically" credible.

So now she is psychotic in addition to your other pathetic name calling of a woman you do not even know. You sure are painting Bret like some wonderful guy which is surely not his reputation (unlike owen), at least over the course of Bret's career.

Except that it's on a website designed to sell merchandise and spread news, which his post does both of. Oh no! Someone's out to make a buck, just like the rest of the fucking world!! He's a liar, and a schemer, and he doesn't care about anything because he wants a paycheck!!! It only seems out of place because you're a TNA mark looking for any chance to fling shit.

Well people said that about Martha for simply filing a lawsuit. Notice the one thing Bret does not say is she is looking for money because he knows that is a stupid idea. What I am saying is he specifically put that last part in there because he knew a lot of people would read this post and was trying to seel some stuff. So when it comes down to it who really is exploiting Owen and this lawsuit? If this was such a meaningful response to him why include that?It is an interesting foil to what Martha did and has been accused of, especially considering her past comments about Bret Hart, money and his wwe work. TNA has nothing to do with this, seems more like you are the one launching the fecal matter at a wall because most of your post is complete shit.

I love people like you that grasp one thing they don't agree with and shut out everything else because they've made it their hill to die on. What has the cunt done to keep his memory alive? Nothing, at least nothing outside of her and her kids. That's great for them, but there is a whole world of wrestling fans out there, young and old, who wish to be able to celebrate Owen's life and accomplishments, and to be able to share his greatness with a new generation of fans. Did the DVD center on Owen? Does the WWE use his name and imagery at every opportunity to garner attention and/or profit (like, say, Martha has)? No and no. She is being an irrational bitch, and it's a shame that her inability to do anything in her life but grasp for attention via her dead husband has alienated his children from their extended family.

Yeah, there is no such thing as the Owen Hart foundation. She never wrote a book about him. She does not talk about him with her kids. It is ignoring such things that leads idiots to make statements like you end with here. The whole thing is she does not want WWE/McMahon's to be the one to shape his legacy. I might wish there were some more Owen stuff from the WWE out there but I can understand why she does not and respect that because I am not a selfish prick.