Owen Hart's legacy being destroyed.

[Phoenix]

Given this situation, WWE owns all footage of Owen Hart before his death was signed away, using name and likeness is referring to aquiring new uses ie action figures, video games, which WWE have adhered to. All the footage of Owen is stuff we have seen numerous times and WWE haven't done anything that was illegal. When Owen signed his contract, he immediately signed his rights to WWE, so whatever items they currently own prior to his death, they can rightly use.

With the DVD about the Hart Legacy which is the one in question, they haven't used his likeliness in a new a fashion, they have used what they already have in a new product. WWE has every right to use whatever they have and have not done anything wrong, as for photographs and pre-WWE videos, they were owned by other Hart members such as Bret, so he gave WWE permission because he owned old footage. Martha Hart has no legal ground to stand on because WWE haven't gone beyond any use of replicating his likeliness since his passing and it's certainly difficult due to that.

In the end, this is as like many have said, a stunt to affect Linda's senate campaign and I think that Martha Hart is a very petty and vile woman, if there's anyone exploiting his death, it's her and I seriously think she has no right to accuse WWE of nothing when they have been using what they legally have owned since 1999. I feel sorry for Owen because I don't know what he must be thinking up there, he's a legend of the business and WWE have truly respected him by all means possible.

Please Martha Hart, let the situation go, it's been 11 years and this is your revenge? If only Owen could see you now, unlike him, you ARE a nugget. While it's a shame that he died the way he did, this action is petty and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[The Con Volt]

Yeah, cuz everytime his kids get reminded their dad was a wrestler, they're like, "Oh yeah, our dad died doing that stuff, I almost forgot." This woman is just another typical canadian eh' hole if you ask me. She has no right speaking for her husband and tarnishing his legacy this way. No one is ever gonna remember Owen for anything else than being a good wrestler, so why fight it?

 

[Hartfan]

I'm sorry but if the WWE agreed not to mention his name or likeness in videos or on tv then she has all the right to sue the shit out of them.

 

[Splinter48708]

Woah buddy. Come on. Who are you to tell someone who's husband died falling from the rafters in an arena, how they would like to raise their children/ whether or not they want to sue for rights to their dead husband's likeness? I'm appalled by this and you. "The kids should know how to deal with this by now" What? You want her to drop the lawsuit so you can buy toys and watch wrestling matches. After the bread winner in her family is gone. Wow dude, who's selfish?

It's certainly not me, man. I'm saying that Martha is so filled with bitterness that she's not willing to fully move on and let Owen Hart be properly remembered. He was the son of Stu Hart, the brother of Bret Hart, brother-in-law to Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart, a loving husband and a good dad who loved his then young children. He was going to retire from the ring within 4-5 years after his unforeseen death.

I'm sorry you are offended by this thread. Only Martha can drop this lawsuit and make peace with the McMahons and the WWE. Nothing I say or anyone else on here can do that. Some here have agreed with Martha's decision and others are agreeing with me that Owen's in ring legacy is being attacked. That's a person's right to agree or disagree and I respect all the opinions.

Please don't try to engage in a flame war or other insults. If you have a logical argument why you disagree...I'm more inclined to listen to respectful debate/disagreement. Calling me selfish is illogical and an insult. It's also an insult to Owen's memory as well.

Whether or not you liked or hated Owen shouldn't matter now. He *died* in a mishap that was unavoidable...totally unavoidable. He told folks that he was uncomfortable doing the stunt and he was told to do it anyway. Had they listened to Owen's instincts screaming "NO", he's still be alive and happily retired, having ensured a comfortable living and his kids education in the process...and we would not be having this discussion. A life was lost that fateful night that shouldn't have been.

 

[mrbrightside]

Owen started off making $250,000 a year and a before his death, received a raise to $400,000 a year. That tels me that the WWF felt it was worth that kind of a raise. The amendment was signed by Owen and Good Ol' JR. So, the issue of if Owen was a good or bad wrestler is sort of disproved by the contract. You don't get a raise by being mediocre in your job.

Do you work at all? I get raises just by being with the place I work at for a certain period of time. You have to give raises just because the cost of living goes up each year as well, so no it doesn't prove anything.

But I guess I never answered the question. I think the wife is doing this to get back at the McMahon's and Linda's bid for Senate. She claims the WWE is exploiting her husband but she is exploiting her kids now.

 

[mrbrightside]

Yeah, cuz everytime his kids get reminded their dad was a wrestler, they're like, "Oh yeah, our dad died doing that stuff, I almost forgot." This woman is just another typical canadian eh' hole if you ask me. She has no right speaking for her husband and tarnishing his legacy this way. No one is ever gonna remember Owen for anything else than being a good wrestler, so why fight it?

I'll remember him for

a) doing a really cool move to pin his brother, Bret
b) breaking stone cold's neck and
c) falling to his death and to a lesser extent

d) his match with bret at 1994 royal rumble because I had that on tape and watched it all the time

 

[shattered dreams]

Given this situation, WWE owns all footage of Owen Hart before his death was signed away, using name and likeness is referring to aquiring new uses ie action figures, video games, which WWE have adhered to. All the footage of Owen is stuff we have seen numerous times and WWE haven't done anything that wasn't illegal. When Owen signed his contract, he immediately signed his rights to WWE, so whatever items they currently own prior to his death, they can rightly use.

Tricked yourself with double negatives. WWE have not done anything that was not illegal. Since not illegal means legal you just said wwe has not done anything legal, which amused me.

With the DVD about the Hart Legacy which is the one in question, they haven't used his likeliness in a new a fashion, they have used what they already have in a new product. WWE has every right to use whatever they have and have not done anything wrong, as for photographs and pre-WWE videos, they were owned by other Hart members such as Bret, so he gave WWE permission because he owned old footage. Martha Hart has no legal ground to stand on because WWE haven't gone beyond any use of replicating his likeliness since his passing and it's certainly difficult due to that.

I do not know how the legal stuff works with Bret owning video/pictures but that seems a little sketchy yet believable. What I cannot figure out is how wwe gets away with not paying the Owen estate royalties.

 

[theHeadliner]

I think its highly hypocritical of Martha to say she's suing over Owen's likeness being mentioned so it won't hurt her kids or bring back memories, but the fact that she's starting this law suit and talking about it around her kids would do th same thing. I highly doubt her kids watch WWE, so the wouldn't be affected by anything shown on the programming, but they haven't shown or talked about any Owen things for as long as I can remember. Besides Bret mentioning him and wearing that shirt, when was the last time? They guy was a great wrestler, he was in good matches that were placed on DVDs, its hard to edit a guy out.

 

[Splinter48708]

Yet you find it incomprehensible that his wife and kids could still be unnerved by being reminded of this event? If I got drunk and killed someone close to you in my car unintentionally would you support me writing a book about it for personal profit? Or would that make you sick and angry even though others close to you felt it was ok. My point is continually claiming you or anyone knows exactly "how she should feel" is a bad joke. You might know how you wish she felt from your own biased personal perspective but what gives you the right to chose her mindset? Why do you feel she is obligated to let wwe profit from her husbands death? The last time she trusted them they most likely sacrificed safety for cheap entertainment. Why should she now trust they will not make mistakes in the name of entertainment when handling his likeness?

If I can get unnerved 11 years after the fact, it makes me human. It reminds me that there are others, far, far closer to Owen than I would ever be. I am totally sympathetic towards Owen's kids and even Martha on a human level.

I question her reasoning to come out with this potentially multi-million dollar lawsuit right now. I'm pretty sure that Bret would possibly have told her that WWE was going to make a DVD about the Hart Family and as such, they would be using stuff about Owen. She can't shield herself from the wrestling business as the rest of her family is steeped in it from birth. So, there's a good chance she had to know that WWE was going to make this DVD and that she had plenty of time to call and object to Owen being included.

I recognize the estate's interest in projecting Owen in a good light and I certainly respect it 100%. Not having seen the DVD that triggered this lawsuit, I do not know what Martha is truly objecting to, unless it's the mere fact that Owen was included. Excuse me...His last name was Hart, not Hickenbottom. This was done to honor the Hart Family as well as make some money. If royalties are due, I'm sure that Martha would be cut a check as per the original contract stipulations.

We also do not know if WWE reached out in some way to get input from the estate. Personally, I would have given them plenty of input in making a DVD...but, that's just me.

 

[Cookie14]

I'm probably about to say a lot f things that piss people off, but I don't care.

Hearing about things like this really piss me off. Some people are so selfish and greedy that it is beyond belief.

Martha Hart is doing this purely for financial greed, there is no other reason.

I look at this from a different perspective than most people who post on here (I admit, I don't know your histories, but I know my own) I'm 23 years old. My brother died 6 years ago, on his 19th birthday. I think about him every day, as do all my family, and all of his friends. Nothing makes me feel better than hearing his name get mentioned, because than I know he has not been forgotten. Hell, I don't have any children yet, but when I do, I will tell them about their uncle.

I can't believe that Martha wants us to forget about Owen, so it must be about the money. She should be proud to hear his name, because it shows he is still remembered by MILLIONS of people. I'm happy for a handful of people to remember my brother, infact, I'm proud that he is still remembered after 6 years, let alone 11 years. If someone offered me a million pounds never to say my brothers name again, I would turn them down. The memories are more important than any amount of money.

A LIFE IS NEVER TRUELY LOST UNLESS IT IS FORGOTTEN

 

[Mustang Sally]

if there was an agreement in place for them not to use his likeness and they broke that agreement, how is it selfish for her to sue?

It depends on the reason she's suing. The details haven't fully been revealed yet but, after all, if the important thing is to enjoin WWE from mentioning Owen, then why is she suing for money? Wouldn't it be enough just to prevent them from displaying his image? If she's in it for the reasons she stated, maybe she will forget about the money if they agree to stop using the images.

On the other hand, if it was contractually stipulated that the company not use his image.....and they did it anyway.....then tough crackers on them. Let 'em pay.

 

[shattered dreams]

He *died* in a mishap that was unavoidable...totally unavoidable. He told folks that he was uncomfortable doing the stunt and he was told to do it anyway. Had they listened to Owen's instincts screaming "NO", he's still be alive and happily retired, having ensured a comfortable living and his kids education in the process...and we would not be having this discussion. A life was lost that fateful night that shouldn't have been.

How was it unavoidable when you talk about how he could still be alive and say that it should not have been. Not to mention why would wwe settle on a wrongful death lawsuit if it was you know not a wrongful death, ie avoidable. I really cannot figure out why anyone would expect her to play nice with the WWE just because Hart's were a big part of wrestling. The way WWE and Martha interacted in courts and otherwise after the death should show you why she wants nothing to do with them. Hard to blame her IMO.

 

[shattered dreams]

I'm probably about to say a lot f things that piss people off, but I don't care.

Hearing about things like this really piss me off. Some people are so selfish and greedy that it is beyond belief.

Martha Hart is doing this purely for financial greed, there is no other reason.

I look at this from a different perspective than most people who post on here (I admit, I don't know your histories, but I know my own) I'm 23 years old. My brother died 6 years ago, on his 19th birthday. I think about him every day, as do all my family, and all of his friends. Nothing makes me feel better than hearing his name get mentioned, because than I know he has not been forgotten. Hell, I don't have any children yet, but when I do, I will tell them about their uncle.

I can't believe that Martha wants us to forget about Owen, so it must be about the money. She should be proud to hear his name, because it shows he is still remembered by MILLIONS of people. I'm happy for a handful of people to remember my brother, infact, I'm proud that he is still remembered after 6 years, let alone 11 years. If someone offered me a million pounds never to say my brothers name again, I would turn them down. The memories are more important than any amount of money.

A LIFE IS NEVER TRUELY LOST UNLESS IT IS FORGOTTEN

Would you feel different about hearing his name if you felt the source saying it was responsible for his death and profiting from the mention? I think she has made it abundantly clear this is about a way to remember what she feels is the real owen in a positive way. Meaning the man outside the ring with a heart of gold. Instead of the man in the ring at the mercy of some violent perverts for a paycheck. It is surely a jaded version of reality but I do not see why she should be obligated to put any money into the McMahon's pockets.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

This is getting ridiculous, I can't believe people are saying Martha needs to get over it, Bret made peace with Vince, why can't she etc? Are you kidding me?? I'm a huge bret fan and glad he's doing what he's doing again, but that has NOTHING to do w/ what Martha should be feeling. Bret got screwed out of a title, Martha lost her husband and her kids lost their father. How are they even remotely in the same boat?? Forgive McMahon? Really?? This is a guy who hasn't forgaven Macho Man right? Yet somehow, everyone should get over what he does right? OK that's a total digression, but still, she doesn't have to forgive or move on because EVERY day she wakes up her husband is gone because of a stupid stunt he was forced to do. Owen was probably miserable going into that match to begin with as many documentaries have pointed out, he was by himself with everyone heading to WCW and him all alone there. All Owen wanted to do literally was survive, he wanted to make enough money to get out and be with his family forever. He counted on it as did they, then tragedy struck, and now she should get over it? Unbelievable! It took bret 12 years to get over a screwjob, i'd imagine getting over a death SHOULD take longer if not forever to get over. Personally, i liked Owen and I'm glad they still mention because as a fan it's cool to hear, but from here side it's kind of like WWE w/ Benoit, trying to remove that memory because it is that bad and that hard for them. I can definitely sympathize with her and see where she is coming from.

 

[TRoN]

I can understand her being upset about not allowing the wwe to make money off his likeness. But not being able to mention his name on tv because it reminds her kids about what happened is just plain stupid. Owen died a tragic death and that's something that will always stay with family members especially children. Anytime the kids think about their father it will always be in the back off their minds. Weather it's on a tv show they don't watch or mostly likely in general conversation, they will always think back to that day.

 

[Cookie14]

Would you feel different about hearing his name if you felt the source saying it was responsible for his death and profiting from the mention? I think she has made it abundantly clear this is about a way to remember what she feels is the real owen in a positive way. Meaning the man outside the ring with a heart of gold. Instead of the man in the ring at the mercy of some violent perverts for a paycheck. It is surely a jaded version of reality but I do not see why she should be obligated to put any money into the McMahon's pockets.

My brother died in a car accident, I couldn't sue anyone, even if I wanted to. However, If someone had the chance to say my brothers name, spread it to millions of people around the world, and make some money for themselves, and maybe myself, then how could I possibly complain? Like I said, a person('s spirit) can never truely die if they are remembered.

Many current WWE fans will have never seen Owen wrestle, and if he is never mentioned again, then what reason would they have to look up his matches?

Martha has, and has had, the time, reason and opportunity to tell her childen about Owen as a person. They are old enough to realise that what they 'could' see on TV was him playing a character. Doing the job he was paid (very well) for, to support his family.

My brother worked in a supermarket. They still have a plaque for him in the staff room, even though there are only two people still there from when he died. They do this out of common decency, and loyalty for those who have worked for the company.

I still have pictures of him, I even have a tattoo of his initials on my chest. I well up with enormous pride whenever someone asks about him, because all of my old memories come flooding back. I remember all of the good times we shared, instead of thinking about the fact he's gone.

It's a shame Martha can't do the same.

 

[OlderFan]

I'm brand new to this forum but kind of curious what everyone might think of this angle. While there was an agreement b/t Martha Hart and the VKM about using Owen's image to promote WWE wouldn't that pertain to Owen the private man? For all practical purposes doesn't WWE own all rights to its "characters" like the "Hart Foundation" which encompasses all the Harts that were in WWE which included Owen as part of that group, as well as the Blue Blazer which was Owen alone. Could there have been a patent on anyone who wore black and pink ring gear? They may be just colors but it was the "signature" of the Harts similar to Triple H and the sledgehammer.

It doesn't take much to understand the one left behind wanting to have someone to blame for this but what happened to Owen was an accident. Stephanie McMahon herself was secured to an Undertaker symbol that started to hoist into the air. So was the girl who played Frank Shamrock's sister "Ryan" who actully went fairly high into the air, also on a cross. Doesn't anyone remember when Shawn Michaels entered the ring by sliding in on a pulley from roof level of an arena/stadium all the way to the ring? I don't remember exactly where now but the height was unbelievable. What happened to Owen could've happened to anyone of these people.

The fact is that any job in which high risk can make a hero also carries the possibility for tragedy. A wrestlers dies in a stunt, a cop is fatally wounded in the line of duty, a firefighter can't get out of a burning building in time. This was an accident. To say this woman should "get over it" is cruel to put it that way - there was a loss of life, of a father, of a husband. But maybe it is time to say goodbye, move on and, when the time comes, let Owen have his place in the HOF and treasure the memories. This was an accident.

 

[gameshowfreak]

Here's the way I look at it:

WWE has said nothing bad about Owen, In fact, they've bent over backwards to praise him.

Owen was a great wrestler and a great guy behind the scenes (according to what I've heard).

The way martha should really be looking at this is fans of future generations and her and Owen's kids deserve to know how great he was. At least, she's getting royalties from the DVDs and etc. (or at least I assume she is) and I think past fans of his want him to be remembered. (ie. the "owen" chants during bret HOF speech and on RAW when Bret mentioned him)

The only thing WWE was guilty of was not asking permission. So maybe she's entitled to some damages but I hardly think millions of dollars worth. Her kids are gonna have to learn to deal with Owen's death someday. If anything the Hart & Soul DVD IMO, was a very nice gesture on WWE's part and a way to pseudo-bury the hatchet.

Diana has put everything aside from Davey Boy's death, Bret has moved on from the Montreal Screwjob I think it's time for Martha to move on. Yes, Owen's death was tragic and maybe it was negligence we don't know (we may never know). But Owen should still be acknowledged for his accomplishments. I mean WWE is taking a risk here too because mentioning him reminds everyone how he died.

 

[AnthonyM4]

I hope she does win this case. I also hope Linda loses her election. One more hope, that wwe becomes watchable again! I think the first two are likely, but the last... I don't know. Anyway, I hope she does win the case because she deserves it. Wwe is a sleazy company and are very arrogant. I don't even know why I still watch the shit that is wwe tv. I like pro wrestling, but wwe makes me sick. They deserve to have to edit out Owen's footage to make them look bad. I'm not going to be one of those selfish fans that says "oh man if she wins we won't get to see Owen".

 

[KnowYoRole]

Martha is annoying me. It's clear now that she's doing this crap because she's greedy. She's worried her kids will be reminded that their fathers dead? Yeah, because i'm sure they don't think about it all the time anyway. She needs to stop being so selfish and greedy and she needs to let her husband get the proper respect and acknowledgement that he so deserves.

 

[Canadian Knight]

It is easy for some people to call Martha Hart greedy because she was paid money from the WWE for his wrongful death. Heck I can't remember if she was paid for his death, but I think that she deserves it because his life was cut short for entertainment.

Just because Martha was paid money for Owen's accidental death does not mean she should not get royalties for every use of Owen's image. If the WWE is not paying her for EVERY use, they are the guilty ones. If she is, well then she is the guilty one.

 

[Blush]

When I read the about Martha suing, all I could think of it as was odd. If she's getting royalties and WWE is following the agreement, and using the Hart's own family photos with their permission, I don't feel she has the right to say they can't. She's not the only family Owen had, and he came from a very prominent wrestling family. There's no way to ignore it or his involvement. Doing so would insult what he worked so hard for. (The lawsuit for wrongful death was proper, but to deny his achievements is not, IMO -- If WWE overstepped the line legally, they should pay)

With this popping out of left-field after all of these years, I really feel that if Martha had her kids interests at heart, she would have taken proper steps to help them and herself heal and move past the hatred. Probably thru grief counseling. Nothing so far said the kids do or don't have a problem with seeing/hearing their dad mentioned, so that can't be taken into account until more information is released. -- Even then, I question if they'd be speaking their own mind, or what Martha has told them as gospel.

Either way, I find it difficult to believe the kids haven't asked their aunts/uncles/cousins/etc about what kind of man their dad was, or even asking if they can see his matches or products.

 

[pessimism101]

Just so we're clear, a REAL NAME can NOT be copyrighted or trademarked and anyone and everyone has every right to say/use a real name whenever the Hell they want to. Onto the whole lawsuit issue, does Martha really think she's protecting her children??? First of all, what difference does it make if the WWE mentions or shows Owen Hart when she said herself that she and her kids disassociated from the organization? They're not watching so how the Hell can mentioned Owen Hart on WWE be damaging? Because some jackoff told her? I would be more pissed off witht he reporting person for telling me about it than I would at WWE. Plus, how stupid is it to go through another drawn out lawsuit that is OBVIOUSLY going to remind her and her kids of Owen's death? It makes absolutely no sense unless she's strapped for cash.

If this was 2001, I'd be saying something different, but this is 2010... 11 years after the fact. I have ZERO sympathy for Martha now for the simple fact that, clearly, she can't move on. I understand losing a loved one and grieving and all that, but to act this way after 11 years have passed is just too much. Three simple words: GET... OVER... IT (not Owen's death, but WWE using Owen's name and "likeness")

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

just read JR's comments on the matter and I have to ask, who gives a shit what the fans want with regards to Owen, ultimately, what would Owen have wanted?? I keep bringing up this point but Owen wanted to be iwth his family, so he would want whatever they want. If they want the WWE to not make a single cent off of him anymore then they should get it! IMO martha should be able to make them go back and edit owen from everything should she choose similar to benoit and the WWF logo. As a fan i liked owen and it'd suck to not see some of his best work on future dvds, but its her prerogative really. As for Owen in the HOF, i'm glad Martha will fight that, let's all be honest, the chances of Owen getting into the HOF had he not fallen were slim at best. Putting him in jsut because he died in the ring is an insult, it's pure guilt being the reason. If anything, WWE needs to just respect her wishes, they are hte ones going after the sympathy for owen when it was their fault he's gone. She has every right to want his image gone from that company, just like they chose to completely erase benoit from wrestlings history books

 

[Deviancy]

I'm on Martha's side on this one because I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. The fact of the matter is, we all have different coping abilities, and while some can handle tragedy fairly well, tragedy can destroy one for life. Take rape for example, some women do overcome being assaulted rather quickly, while others, they're messed up for life. But those who do cope better, they shouldn't expect others to cope in the same way as them because we're all wired differently. But sadly, in the US, there are a lot of people who expect everyone to have the same capabilities.

I remember when they lowered the Brood onto the cage after the Taker/Bossman match, and I just saw that as a risky stunt that was totally unnecessary. It would have been just as cool to have them come out while the arena was dark and climb the cage to put the rope through, and that would have been less risky. But the WWE puts common sense out the window in favor of cheap thrills.

So they deserve whatever Martha does to them.