[Official] John Cena Thread

[X]

Come on now that's ridiculious Slyfox. Everyone knows Hogan put wrestling on the map with Vinnie Mac in the 80s---that is a COMPLETELY different scenario, and one that I would most definately say Hogan deserves to be in the HOF for.

You can't compare the two---just like you said I can't compare AWA to the indies these days, because they were two vastly different times.

 

[Slyfox696]

Fair enough with Hogan, although I have seen plenty of people who think Hogan was simply right place/right time. And, I know you aren't a Hogan fan, so I thought you might be one of those people. But fair enough.

Have you gone back and watched the Wrestlemania match yet? Have you found that part that I'm talking about and how Cena oversells the punch to the knee and how HBK doesn't really know what the hell is going on?

 

[goleafsgo23]

Here's my $.02 on why Cena is getting his reign. It's simple, whether you want to believe it or not, he does boost the ratings. Because every week, his fans watch to adore the guy, while the his non-fans tune in to find a way to tear him apart. That goes for the same in his matches when people are there. Do you know how much attention that guy gets? In a tag team match, when he's NOT wrestling standing on the apron, we still hear the same ol' "Lets Go Cena!", "Cena sucks!". And you know what? the people in the back office love that, because each main event he's in, it turns Monday Night Raw into a soccer-frenzy-esque atmosphere. Do you hear that kind of reaction during a Carlito/Ric Flair match, or a Randy Orton match? Absolutely not.

Let me make an example. Lets take a movie actor. A movie actor makes a movie that flops at the office, or he/she gets reviews as a crappy actor. That certain person will not get as many roles as someone who is a great actor/actress. Because that person who is a bad actor will not draw the money or ratings that the movie needs or the company needs to make money.

The fact that wrestling fans and the IWC hate Cena so much, is the reason why he is staying as he is.

 

[Kasey]

John Cena vs. JBL at Wrestlemania 21 and HBK/HHH/Benoit from Wrestlemania 20. It was where Cena met an old opponent of HBK and HBK met an old opponent of Cena's. Clearly, JBL was never going to compete, but it wasn't just some random decision to have Benoit job to Cena. It was announced the week before, and both men were to have matches. And, how did it devalue the U.S. Title? How does getting beat by the number one guy, on the number one show devalue the number two title on the number two show? That makes no sense.

Regardless of the random nature of it...it was stupid. Cena doesn't have a fraction of Benoit's ability in the ring and was not even on the same show as him. How did it devalue the U.S. title? Easy. Benoit himself shouldn't even be fighting for that strap. He's a main event caliber performer who's being wasted (that's another story, though) and instead of doing the smart thing and elevating the title he's burdened with, they have him be a loser? Champions aren't losers, plain and simple. The U.S. title is in just as bad of shape as the majority of other belts stinking up the airwaves of WWE programming at present. This was just as stupid of a decision as having Helms (the supposed CW champ, no less) get jobbed at lightspeed to Batista. And the company wonders why no one gives a $hit about the majority of the belts or angles. Having a title and still being a jobber is like being the smartest kid in the Special Olympics. They effectively eroded any potential for Benoit rebounding into a main event player (one which they sorely needed after the injuries of recent). If you think that this booking is intelligent, I feel sorry for you. Seriously.

Umm, why else do you think they were building Khali up? To feud with Super Crazy? The guys that Khali generally feuded were older established veterans who would not lose any heat from a loss to Khali. Undertaker, Dreamer, Kane...none of those guys were going to be held in any less esteem after a program with Khali. He wasn't burying new and upcoming talent, he was being put over by established talent...for the sole purpose of making Cena look better.

ALL OF THIS SUCKS. Cena is a lemon, first of all, so trying to rationalize any sort of push for him in the confines of this here argument is useless and a waste of your time. Khali is a circus attraction that has ZERO talent in the ring. The sad thing is that Taker was wasted. Remember, before when I was discussing crappy decision making? This is one bad one heaped on another and so on and so forth. It's like the writing staff took a mental dump and then tried to build things out of that dump. Dreamer, Kane, Cena, and Khali wouldn't even be on the show should I be in charge. They're either too old, undertalented, or have no talent at all.

How was his win against HHH NOT an underdog style of win? He was buried as a wrestler on Raw by HHH (which was ridiculous), the whole storyline going in to Mania was that Cena was an unpolished brawler while HHH was the experienced vet. The opening of the Mania match saw HHH "outwrestling" Cena. The whole program was an underdog story for Cena.

Just like the year before when he was an underdog against an unnamed redneck who gave him the same treatment? Very original...but not the same. Searching for the underdog win doesn't involve getting a clean one, if you get my drift, Sly. Besides, it doesn't seem very underdoggish when HHH taps out cleanly to me at Wrestlemania and this was after they had Kurt Angle job to Cena. Cena was the favorite going in and going out of WM22, simple as that. Anyone who wasn't two chromosomes above eating produce with their feet could've seen the outcome a mile away. The simple fact is that WWE management was very aware of the fact that there was and still is a fan backlash of people who rightly think Cena is a shitty wrestler. HHH was smart enough to see that, so the angle was planned accordingly. No underdogging, whatsoever.

 

[Slyfox696]

Regardless of the random nature of it...it was stupid. Cena doesn't have a fraction of Benoit's ability in the ring and was not even on the same show as him. How did it devalue the U.S. title? Easy. Benoit himself shouldn't even be fighting for that strap. He's a main event caliber performer who's being wasted (that's another story, though) and instead of doing the smart thing and elevating the title he's burdened with, they have him be a loser?

Talent wise, Benoit is a main-eventer. Professional wrestling wise, he is not. You have to understand that "talent" doesn't mean as much as "moneymaking" to a company. As a fan, you may not like it, but you have to understand and accept it. And, until these guys with immense talent start making the big money, they're not going to be main-eventers. And, in professional wrestling, the best guys, in theory, are the main-event champions. So, the number one guy on the number one brand going over the number two guy on the number two brand cannot devalue the title.

ALL OF THIS SUCKS. Cena is a lemon, first of all, so trying to rationalize any sort of push for him in the confines of this here argument is useless and a waste of your time. Khali is a circus attraction that has ZERO talent in the ring. The sad thing is that Taker was wasted. Remember, before when I was discussing crappy decision making? This is one bad one heaped on another and so on and so forth. It's like the writing staff took a mental dump and then tried to build things out of that dump. Dreamer, Kane, Cena, and Khali wouldn't even be on the show should I be in charge. They're either too old, undertalented, or have no talent at all.

I just don't understand the Cena hate. How many good matches does he have to put on before people finally say, "Hey, he's good". What's sad is that people around here think that Angle/Edge/HHH/RVD is some kind of super worker, and that they made those matches with Cena great. And that's just ridiculous. Edge in non-gimmick matches is average at best. Now, the guy is PHENOMENAL in gimmick matches, but his one-on-one matches are very rarely well received by a crowd. Psychology waved bye-bye to Angle a long time ago. Psychology never even introduced itself to RVD. And HHH is no better than Cena. I just don't understand how the guy can have so many good matches that are well received by the crowd, and still get such a bad rap as a wrestler.

I mean, look at Raw on Monday. There were five men in that match, and the crowd only gave a damn about one of them. And, that was John Cena.

Just like the year before when he was an underdog against an unnamed redneck who gave him the same treatment? Very original...but not the same. Searching for the underdog win doesn't involve getting a clean one, if you get my drift, Sly. Besides, it doesn't seem very underdoggish when HHH taps out cleanly to me at Wrestlemania and this was after they had Kurt Angle job to Cena. Cena was the favorite going in and going out of WM22, simple as that. Anyone who wasn't two chromosomes above eating produce with their feet could've seen the outcome a mile away. The simple fact is that WWE management was very aware of the fact that there was and still is a fan backlash of people who rightly think Cena is a shitty wrestler. HHH was smart enough to see that, so the angle was planned accordingly. No underdogging, whatsoever.

Umm, how in the world can you say that Cena was the favorite going into his Wrestlemania match with HHH? No one thought that. HHH was supposed to be the guy that was going to end Cena's reign. The guy played the underdog role for a while, and people got tired of it. So, they switched him to play the top dog role. People didn't like that, so he's back to the underdog role for Khali. The WWE has been listening to the fans with regards to John Cena for years. The only thing they haven't done is take the belt off of him for an extended period of time. And, considering how the main goal of professional wrestling is to make money, I don't blame them.

 

[ratedrsuperstartoronto]

John Cena should lose the WWE Championship and then go away from the title picture for a while. He should turn heel and go through two or three good rivalries until he is put back into the title picture. This would help him because the fans wouldn't hate him when he's a face and he can spend time improving his in ring work instead of shining his belt. I don't think that Cena is horrible but I do think that he needs to step away from the title picture and his superman type in ring work and go back to what made him popular with all the fans in the past, his rapping(instead of being a "soldier") and him being more edgey in the ring and not always the underdog.

 

[sevmce]

Cena should turn heal while being champion. He could just stand in the middle of the ring, listen to the boos, have someone like Ric Flair come out to try and sympathise with him, then give it the "Boo me? boo this?" sort of thing before wacking Flair over the head with the title belt. He could then go back to the rapping and taking the piss thing that made him semi popular in the first place. Move set would improve with heal eye poking, low blow manouveres.

 

[nyboy42]

Cena has no skill set or move set at all in the ring but i dont think McMahon even cares about that. Cena does have charisma and he is decent on the mic (at times he thinks he can cut promos like the rock...but he cant) His major flaw is that he is VERY BORING IN THE RING. And i def think he would be much better as a full blown heel. I would like to see cut a HEEL PROMO, i think he could generate a lot of heat. maybe he can feud with HHH as a heel when HHH returns.

 

[Cracker5000]

Cena should become heel once again cause he knows how to be a heel. Watch One Night Stand 2 and look how he tries to piss off the crowd (even though his presence made the crowd boo). One thing I like about Cena is that he acknowledges tose that boo him. Most faces would smile and hope for the best.

 

[cena_rvd_dx1]

yer if john cena had just like 5 move's how would he be one of the strongest wwe supetstars as some of ya hate john cena i like him wooooooooooo!

 

[Kasey]

Talent wise, Benoit is a main-eventer. Professional wrestling wise, he is not. You have to understand that "talent" doesn't mean as much as "moneymaking" to a company. As a fan, you may not like it, but you have to understand and accept it. And, until these guys with immense talent start making the big money, they're not going to be main-eventers. And, in professional wrestling, the best guys, in theory, are the main-event champions. So, the number one guy on the number one brand going over the number two guy on the number two brand cannot devalue the title.

Whoever "makes the money" is who they push down everyone's throat in recent times. The crowds these days have next to no electricity compared to the crowds of yesteryear because there hasn't been one bona fide main eventer EVERYONE got behind in a long time. Wonder why that is? It used to be commonplace for WWF crowds to be some of the loudest, most raucous crowds in the history of the game (second only to ECW's). Like you say, the best guys "in theory" are the main event champions.

The fact is that McMahon stopped looking for ways to build a better wrestling show long ago. Instead of looking for ways to get and keep that part of his empire over, he spends time looking for mainstream marketables that can't hold up one of the cornerstones of a good wrestling show: wrestling. It doesn't take X-ray vision for me to see that the current strategies haven't been working half as well as they used to. I don't expect Benoit to win the title ala HHH umpteen times. That's not what I'm getting at. My main problem is proper usage of the talent to elevate the quality and consistency of the show and its divisons, rather than pushing pretty faces and circus freaks that can't keep a main event alive. Notice the piss-poor booking and completely uneven responses because of the poor choices and batting order this year at their biggest show? I did. Good thing I stole it, and didn't get screwed out of $50 again.

I just don't understand the Cena hate. How many good matches does he have to put on before people finally say, "Hey, he's good". What's sad is that people around here think that Angle/Edge/HHH/RVD is some kind of super worker, and that they made those matches with Cena great. And that's just ridiculous. Edge in non-gimmick matches is average at best. Now, the guy is PHENOMENAL in gimmick matches, but his one-on-one matches are very rarely well received by a crowd. Psychology waved bye-bye to Angle a long time ago. Psychology never even introduced itself to RVD. And HHH is no better than Cena. I just don't understand how the guy can have so many good matches that are well received by the crowd, and still get such a bad rap as a wrestler.

How many good matches? When I see one he's responsible for, I'll let you know. Edge rarely well received? He and RVD, only a month or so ago, tore it up on Raw with zero lead-in or fanfare. When Angle is able to wrestle a solid encounter in terms of the length, he has a much more natural flow, but I'll place his worst psychology three pacings ahead of Cena's best any day of the week. Notice the consistency of crowd response towards Angle's matches as opposed to Cena's? Even in the WWE days, Angle was sharper. RVD has never had a chance for any kind of psychology (at least in Stamford) because they gutted his character and eliminated the style of work that made him famous. He may not be Bret Hart, but unlike Cena, he's able to stay over even with the pot bust, and McMahon and co. trying to bury his character with a clean job to Holly. It's sad that all RVD has to do to stay over is point his thumbs at himself. Cena requires the entire WWE marketing machine for even half the average audience to give a shit. All the "good" matches Cena had were with credible workers who have been notorious for putting on better performances than he. I reiterate, even with some of the people that have been fed to Cena, I COULD BE A MAIN EVENTER in that capacity.

I mean, look at Raw on Monday. There were five men in that match, and the crowd only gave a damn about one of them. And, that was John Cena.

Yes, because despite the clever on-the-fly audio alterations, I could still make out a heavy portion of the crowd booing Cena and chanting "Cena sucks." They weren't even focused on the match until Cena tagged out. Too bad he had to tag out to Lashley.

Umm, how in the world can you say that Cena was the favorite going into his Wrestlemania match with HHH? No one thought that. HHH was supposed to be the guy that was going to end Cena's reign. The guy played the underdog role for a while, and people got tired of it. So, they switched him to play the top dog role. People didn't like that, so he's back to the underdog role for Khali. The WWE has been listening to the fans with regards to John Cena for years. The only thing they haven't done is take the belt off of him for an extended period of time. And, considering how the main goal of professional wrestling is to make money, I don't blame them.

Maybe because of the ultra-predictable nature of Wrestlemania and the hackneyed yearly booking scheme that could be called weeks, if not months in advance? Also, compounding the fact that HHH was still running on the same dumbass schedule that helped to cripple their ratings a few years before? Let me give you the rundown. HHH goes into Mania as champion after a solid year of politicking his way towards Flair's record. He loses to the up-and-comer or whoever the booking staff pins their hopes on because they have no genuine foresight (or intelligence more often than not) and couldn't find a good heel if one bit 'em in the face. They have a rematch at the following PPV where HHH loses. New champion is either a lemon (Cena/Batista) and can't support the belt with anything but promos or looking pretty, or is booked into the ground (Benoit) and not given the proper run through Survivor Series or so when the title reverts to a heel. Sometime around the middle of the year, Vince realizes that his latest project is a dud, and in the panic calls his son back up to support a failing program. Notice the pattern, here? At the time, I saw it coming from way down the pike and realized that Cena was going to win at Mania. Misterio winning was an underdog move as he was physically outmatched in every department at the Rumble and in his match at Mania. Cena wasn't.

 

[Slyfox696]

Whoever "makes the money" is who they push down everyone's throat in recent times. The crowds these days have next to no electricity compared to the crowds of yesteryear because there hasn't been one bona fide main eventer EVERYONE got behind in a long time. Wonder why that is? It used to be commonplace for WWF crowds to be some of the loudest, most raucous crowds in the history of the game (second only to ECW's). Like you say, the best guys "in theory" are the main event champions.

The fact is that McMahon stopped looking for ways to build a better wrestling show long ago. Instead of looking for ways to get and keep that part of his empire over, he spends time looking for mainstream marketables that can't hold up one of the cornerstones of a good wrestling show: wrestling. It doesn't take X-ray vision for me to see that the current strategies haven't been working half as well as they used to. I don't expect Benoit to win the title ala HHH umpteen times. That's not what I'm getting at. My main problem is proper usage of the talent to elevate the quality and consistency of the show and its divisons, rather than pushing pretty faces and circus freaks that can't keep a main event alive. Notice the piss-poor booking and completely uneven responses because of the poor choices and batting order this year at their biggest show? I did. Good thing I stole it, and didn't get screwed out of $50 again.

Wrestling also had a lot more fans when they were so "raucous". In addition, I thought Wrestlemania, for the most part, was a pretty good show. I don't understand why people talk so badly about it (admittedly I didn't watch Khali/Kane or Melina/Ashley). I think I liked it more than I liked Wrestlemania 22 (which isn't saying much, because I didn't care for 22 much at all).

How many good matches? When I see one he's responsible for, I'll let you know. Edge rarely well received? He and RVD, only a month or so ago, tore it up on Raw with zero lead-in or fanfare. When Angle is able to wrestle a solid encounter in terms of the length, he has a much more natural flow, but I'll place his worst psychology three pacings ahead of Cena's best any day of the week. Notice the consistency of crowd response towards Angle's matches as opposed to Cena's? Even in the WWE days, Angle was sharper. RVD has never had a chance for any kind of psychology (at least in Stamford) because they gutted his character and eliminated the style of work that made him famous. He may not be Bret Hart, but unlike Cena, he's able to stay over even with the pot bust, and McMahon and co. trying to bury his character with a clean job to Holly. It's sad that all RVD has to do to stay over is point his thumbs at himself. Cena requires the entire WWE marketing machine for even half the average audience to give a shit. All the "good" matches Cena had were with credible workers who have been notorious for putting on better performances than he. I reiterate, even with some of the people that have been fed to Cena, I COULD BE A MAIN EVENTER in that capacity.

The same thing I have been reading for pages now. And, yet, people won't go back and watch the matches I tell them to. I'm tired of having this debate with people who won't keep an open mind.

Yes, because despite the clever on-the-fly audio alterations, I could still make out a heavy portion of the crowd booing Cena and chanting "Cena sucks." They weren't even focused on the match until Cena tagged out. Too bad he had to tag out to Lashley.

Yes, because on a live show, the WWE has the capability to lower the boos, while keeping or even raising the cheers, all in a span of no more than three seconds. (If there was an eye-rolling smiley I could find, it would go here). And, you're right, they weren't focused on the match, they were focused on Cena. Isn't that the point? They wanted Cena to win, or Cena to lose. It wasn't "ooh look! he did a double underhook suplex hurricaranna into a spinning half-nelson slam from double arm windbreaking position"...or whatever. It was the TRUE nature of professional wrestling, the entertainment of having your favorite or most hated wrestlers putting on a great show, because people care about THEM, and not the moves. THAT'S what good wrestling is.

Maybe because of the ultra-predictable nature of Wrestlemania and the hackneyed yearly booking scheme that could be called weeks, if not months in advance?

Only because you are on the Internet talking wrestling, and looking at wrestling every single day. I bet if you would stop doing anything wrestling related, except watching on Monday, Tuesday, and Friday nights, wrestling would become a whole lot less predictable.

 

[Kasey]

The same thing I have been reading for pages now. And, yet, people won't go back and watch the matches I tell them to. I'm tired of having this debate with people who won't keep an open mind.

I watched the Last Man Standing match. It was alright. Not great. Certainly not the best the company could produce (and honestly something a guy geared around that style like RVD could do in his sleep). Decent work, but a real letdown for an ending (the crowd was deflated by the second rope choke at the end because Cena didn't know when he should've ended it). It's not that I'll sit here and say Cena doesn't deserve a place in wrestling. Just that his current talent level belongs nowhere near where he resides on the card. This match was no exception. As for the responses from the crowd, the WWE fans haven't had much to chew on for decent hardcore wrestling in quite some time on a regular basis, so when they get a taste, of course they come alive. After all, when you're given less on a regular basis, you expect less...on a regular basis. Better than his standard fare, but that isn't saying much from where I sit.

Yes, because on a live show, the WWE has the capability to lower the boos, while keeping or even raising the cheers, all in a span of no more than three seconds. (If there was an eye-rolling smiley I could find, it would go here). And, you're right, they weren't focused on the match, they were focused on Cena. Isn't that the point? They wanted Cena to win, or Cena to lose. It wasn't "ooh look! he did a double underhook suplex hurricaranna into a spinning half-nelson slam from double arm windbreaking position"...or whatever. It was the TRUE nature of professional wrestling, the entertainment of having your favorite or most hated wrestlers putting on a great show, because people care about THEM, and not the moves. THAT'S what good wrestling is.

Apparently you're not very aware of audio mixing capabilities, are you? Not a musician likely, so I wouldn't be surprised. With a standard stereo or surround feed, they can keep anything put on those mixes they see fit. This is why they killed the audio of the TNA chants as well as the "we want wrestling" chants during the Donald/Rosey segment. It took 'em about five seconds, but they did a damn good job of pasting artificial crowd wash over the prime mix to nullify the response (which is why you couldn't hear a clear indicator of the two specific chants after a few seconds went by. A solid maneuver, but I have a pretty keen ear as I actually look for those things these days, being that I expect them now. This is the same stuff they use to nullify the audio when they get "asshole" chants at McMahon because they don't have the ratings clearance to do that anymore.

Good wrestling is a match that does those things. A great match is one that pleases ALL parties involved. Even the smarks got behind guys like Austin, Rock, Mankind, Taker, Angle, or even Lesnar when they had face pushes. No gray area (at least not a horribly audible one). All the people were for them (if they were deemed face) or against them (should they be heel) because they could deliver the goods when it came main event time on a consistent basis (and typically not just because they were saddled in programs with guys who held their hands through matches). Cena can't get there (at least not on the present course). He's pushed as an uber-babyface, but still he gets half-response more often than not, but it's because his shtick is lame to some people. Not hated in the traditional heel sense, but just an annoyance. That's a failure from where I sit. Even if I were a booking team member who was forced into using Cena as the top guy, I'd have turned him heel long ago. At least I'd be able to get a solid response from the crowd for him for once.

 

[BrooklynBuc]

I don't hate Cena, either, but sometimes when you over-push something, when it's jammed down your throat, it can get old. Sometimes it sounds better if a heel has a long title reign because people will eventually get tired of him. I did watch the Last Man Standing match between Umaga and Cena, and I have to say I wasn't too impressed either. I compared the Last Man Standing match of Cena/Umaga and Undertaker/Batista, and although both matches have completey different roles for the wrestlers, the quality of match was very different. Results aside, there's a difference in how the wrestlers fight in the match, and the roles they play afterwards.

First off, in the Cena/Umaga match, there was NO QUESTION in my mind who was going to win the match. I knew that somehow Cena was going to win. He was playing the underdog role to Umaga's unstoppable monster, which is a tired schtick in itself. It's the role of absolutely beat the hell out of the champion/underdog, and he has the fortitude to get up and fight back and get the hard fought win. A Last Man Standing match with Edge would have been more interesting, since both men are even in size and the match could have more evenness. Cena/Umaga was basically a Hogan/Andre re-make, and while the loose rope STFU was creative, it was almost out of place. It seemed pretty random and not in a good way. Good match, not great, not one I'd watch over and over again. Meanwhile, Undertaker/Batista, despite being a HUGE Taker fan, I still had no true idea that Taker would win (it ended in a draw, though, which no one liked or wanted). Still though, the psychology of the match was interesting because you had frustrated former champ against a wrestler who can play any role in Taker. With the Undertaker's matches against Batista (who I am NOT a fan of at all) he put together three intense back-and-forth matches that no one had a real idea of who was going to win. If Batista were to turn heel now, it would make complete sense since he had the bitter loss and two straight draws to Taker then the two losses to Edge. This was propelled by Taker. I would watch Undertaker/Batista's Wrestlemania match over and over again. It left me out of breath and excited when he won.

Did Cena really help put over Umaga or Khali? How many people actually thought Khali would beat Cena? Or Umaga? What happens to them now? After beating Cena to a pulp and losing twice, Umaga was Vince's wrestler/bitch for the Donald Trump angle which led into the Bobby Lashley feud, but it wasn't even for the ECW title. Sure, he was Intercontinental champion, but did that actually help him? Not like he was a great champion since he defended it maybe three times total. Why put him in a feud with another top champion and never even have a chance at it? As for Khali, now what with him? He's been pinned AND he's tapped out to Cena, so where do you put him now? Who do you put him against except maybe Taker again so he can finally pin him? It seems like unless you change shows, after losing to Cena you're kind of in career limbo. And how many of the matches with Cena and Umaga OR Khali would you want to watch again and again? As for Cena/Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania, the match just seemed very off. Their RAW match was a little better, but not by much.

Out of Cena's history in the WWE, I can think of three matches he had that I was impressed with: the TLC match with Edge in Toronto, which had the sneaky heel champ vs. frustrated champ roles, and I was very impressed with both men; Cena's Wrestlemania match with the Big Show for the U.S. title, because it was where Cena began the beat-down underdog role, and he played it well against an aggresive Big Show, and the Cena vs. Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand 2, because Cena absolutely EMBRACED the heel role he was playing, and was such a good sport and professional, and the match itself was so incredibly intense.

Just my opinion, though...not out to criticize anyone but putting in my 5 cents...

 

[Slyfox696]

First off, in the Cena/Umaga match, there was NO QUESTION in my mind who was going to win the match. I knew that somehow Cena was going to win.

So? I don't see how that has to do with match quality. I mean, who didn't know that HBK was going to beat Bret Hart at Wrestlemania 12? Does it make it any less of a good match?

Cena/Umaga was basically a Hogan/Andre re-make, and while the loose rope STFU was creative, it was almost out of place. It seemed pretty random and not in a good way. Good match, not great, not one I'd watch over and over again.

Why do you feel that it seemed random?

Did Cena really help put over Umaga or Khali?

Why should he have? Their whole purpose from Day 1 was to be fed to the top champ, whomever that may be.

How many people actually thought Khali would beat Cena? Or Umaga?

Who really would have thought that Khali was going to be the WWE Champion? Forget who he was facing, who would have thought he would be the WWE Champion? What about him says WWE Champion? Plain and simple, he and Umaga's purpose was to put over the top guy, whether it had been Cena, Batista or someone else.

As for Khali, now what with him? He's been pinned AND he's tapped out to Cena, so where do you put him now? Who do you put him against except maybe Taker again so he can finally pin him?

From what I understand there are rumors that Khali's contract is about up. Maybe they are not going to re-sign him.

Just my opinion, though...not out to criticize anyone but putting in my 5 cents...

No big deal. I know I probably come across as pretty dick-ish, but I'm not really. I just present my arguments with a definite tone. I see no reason to preface everything with "in my opinion" personally, because everyone knows it is my opinion. And, your opinion is worth 5 cents and everyone else's is worth 2? You're kind of full of yourself, aren't you friend? Haha, just kidding of course. No offense intended.

 

[Mexican Geek]

i still cant believe what my eyes saw yesterday at RAW...what a way to put over (more??) Cena, i mean, i know Cena is made for little kids mostly, but even the little kids are a little bit intelligents enough to understand this kind of BULLSHIT.
you have a undefeated monster (Umaga) and at some point skilled enough to deliver some good stuff sometimes... and you throw it to Cena for a last man standing match... results? Umaga credibility is gone, zero, nada...hell, even he lost the belt with Santino Mozarella!! (ok, Lashley got something to do with this, but umagas credibility was already destroyed...)
Then you have a BIGGER AND BADDER monster, over 5437 foot high weighing more than 15454 punds, the indestructible (he even BEAT the UNDERTAKER <--the best ever...) great Khali; and know it looks like even Fucking Kenny Dykstra can powerbomb Khali, because Cena FU the guy like 4 or 5 times, made him TAP OUT!!! how can you make tap a guy like this?? he was supposed to be indestructible!!
the deep shit of this is, when you do this kind of crap, you usually have the undertaker to get rid of the trash, and Voila!! the undertaker makes the crapp-wrestler looks good (see:Batista WM23, etc, etc....)and dispose him. but how a piece of shit like Cena can make this looks good? not even in a thousand years!! right know Khali is like a pussy cat and Umaga have to thank Vince to have him as his enforcer, or he would be on Heat cheering with Val Venis...
im tired to say that cena needs to step away from the title, he's not gonna do that...im tired to hear that stupid crap :"The champ....still here" im tired to read on wwe.com "the champ, ONCE AGAIN has overcome the odds, and beat the entire chicago Bears defensive team with an STFU with one hand back-tied" <--- ??

i only hope for a last minute miracle, and the "wise" words of the messsiah of wrestling John Cena came to reality: "maybe this is the last time you see me here on RAW cause i could be drafted to SD! or ECW, so i want to say it loud ONE MORE TIME (no please!!) THE CHAMP....
send this motherfucker to ECW and have all the originals and the new breed shit on his throat, and hopefully, Monty B. break his neck with a POUNCE!!

 

[Randy Legend Killer Orton]

Cena i admit is not the best wrestler but you have to give him his credit because when it is show time he takes it up a knoch and delivers a main event match never once have i not been satified with a John Cena match. I mean he the champion and has been for so long because he's young the ladies and young viewer love him and because like it or not whether you wan t see him win or lose he puts asses int hose seat. Because people come to cheer for Cena or to cheer for sumbody who is facing Cena. And quite frankly you cant really be mad at the WWE for keeping him champion for so long because he delivers good matches, bottom line he's entertaining whether he's in the ring with Umaga, Triple H, Chris Masters, or Shawn Micheals, the guy keeps us watching to see who he's gunna lose to. and thats why he's champion.

 

[hbkunit]

john cena is a good talent but he has had the tittle for roo long

 

[robwylde90]

Cena i admit is not the best wrestler but you have to give him his credit because when it is show time he takes it up a knoch and delivers a main event match never once have i not been satified with a John Cena match. I mean he the champion and has been for so long because he's young the ladies and young viewer love him and because like it or not whether you wan t see him win or lose he puts asses int hose seat. Because people come to cheer for Cena or to cheer for sumbody who is facing Cena. And quite frankly you cant really be mad at the WWE for keeping him champion for so long because he delivers good matches, bottom line he's entertaining whether he's in the ring with Umaga, Triple H, Chris Masters, or Shawn Micheals, the guy keeps us watching to see who he's gunna lose to. and thats why he's champion.

that doesnt make any sense , by your logic every single popular wrestler should have a long title run but as we know thats just not true, kane being the prime example with his one day title reign , if a guys popular then he should obv be on the show every week , putting on a good matches consistently (which cena cant').

 

[Slyfox696]

that doesnt make any sense , by your logic every single popular wrestler should have a long title run but as we know thats just not true, kane being the prime example with his one day title reign , if a guys popular then he should obv be on the show every week , putting on a good matches consistently (which cena cant').

It's not about popular wrestlers getting long title runs, it's about the drawing wrestlers getting long title runs. Obviously, Kane has never been a big enough draw to justify putting the championship belt on him. Cena, on the other hand, is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, draw in the company.

Wrestling champions are not about the guys who are the best "in-ring" wrestlers. It's the ones who make the company the most money. It's been like that for forever. If the two are one and the same, then that's great. But, you don't have to be the best wrestler to be a champion. You merely have to bring in more money than others.

 

[goleafsgo23]

It's not about popular wrestlers getting long title runs, it's about the drawing wrestlers getting long title runs. Obviously, Kane has never been a big enough draw to justify putting the championship belt on him. Cena, on the other hand, is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, draw in the company.

Wrestling champions are not about the guys who are the best "in-ring" wrestlers. It's the ones who make the company the most money. It's been like that for forever. If the two are one and the same, then that's great. But, you don't have to be the best wrestler to be a champion. You merely have to bring in more money than others.

He's right about this. Look at in the past who your past champions were. You had Hogan as champion when he put wrestling on the map, then you had Austin, Rock, HBK, Bret Hart as champions who were put over well with the crowd. Cena, despite his cheers and boos, draws attention to the program. If you don't want him to be champion, then stop paying attention until he loses the title, because the only way he will lose the title is if WWE's ratings and sales take a pummel. As for Chris Benoit, yes he's a fantastic wrestler, one of my favorites, yes I believe he should be main eventing, but does he bring attention like Cena does to the ring? No, not at all. Look at Wrestlemania 23 for example. What match received more crowd involvement in it, Cena/HBK or Benoit/MVP? If you're smart you would have chosen the Cena match. Why? Because kids and girls love him and want to show it, and you wrestling fanatics don't, and you obviously want your voice to be heard.

Also, whats with the hating on Cena FU'ing Khali. True you need leverage, but false its not that easy. I'd like to see one of you guys to try holding 400+ lbs on your shoulders (I squat under 400), and it is not easy, especially to hold him up that long. But it seems like any innovation he does or new move or a show of strength, you guys play it off as nothing, where as if Randy Orton or someone did that, you'd be like "OHHH MY GOD DID YOU SEE THAT??". I can just see Cena out of nowhere do some kind of hurracarana into a Canadian Destroyer that ends up into a stone cold stunner, and some Cena hater on the board is gonna be like, "Oh anyone can do that, I can fucking do that while im taking a shit solving a calculus equation."

 

[robwylde90]

The kids only love cena because vince loves him and shoves him down our throats , of course the kids are gonna love him , hes made out to be superman , but that can be down with any wrestler basically, cena is just a run of the mill, average wrestler who got lucky that vinnie mac took a shine to him.

 

[Slyfox696]

The kids only love cena because vince loves him and shoves him down our throats , of course the kids are gonna love him , hes made out to be superman , but that can be down with any wrestler basically, cena is just a run of the mill, average wrestler who got lucky that vinnie mac took a shine to him.

This is kind of narrow-minded don't you think?

I mean, why then do I like John Cena? I'm a 22 year old male who has been watching wrestling since I was 4. I've been there through greats like Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Ric Flair, Randy Savage, Ricky Steamboat, Ultimate Warrior, Sting, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Rock, Steve Austin, HHH....etc. etc. etc.


Please explain to me why I like Cena?


And, why is it so bad that kids like Cena? Why is it so bad that women like Cena? I've never understood why so many people dismiss them as fans, like they aren't important, or that they are not part of the show. It's pretty ridiculous to me really. If you ask me, kids are better fans than most fans our age. Because, knowingly or not, they represent what wrestling is SUPPOSED to be about. I'm so sick of this hate/dismissal of women and children who like Cena.

 

[robwylde90]

The women only like him cause they think hes handsome and the kids will like whoever vince tells them to like , a show for WRESTLING FANS is being ruined by a fuckwit like cena because of it, that is our problem with john cena , how can you not get that? the guy has had the wwe title for a total of 24 months ie 2 fucking years! and even at that it wouldnt be so bad if it was spread out but its been constant cena down our throats for almost two and half years , in that time there has only been one ppv where he wasnt wrstling for the wwe title, do you not think that we might like to see a different challenger and champion for once? the only good thing i can say for cena is that hes good on the mike , but if you base champions on their mike skills then why have batista , lashley, mysterio etc. been champions? there is no way to get around the fact that cena is backed by mcmahon and thats is the ONLy reason that he has had a long title reign , he in no way shape or form deserved a single bit of it.

 

[goleafsgo23]

The women only like him cause they think hes handsome and the kids will like whoever vince tells them to like , a show for WRESTLING FANS is being ruined by a fuckwit like cena because of it, that is our problem with john cena , how can you not get that? the guy has had the wwe title for a total of 24 months ie 2 fucking years! and even at that it wouldnt be so bad if it was spread out but its been constant cena down our throats for almost two and half years , in that time there has only been one ppv where he wasnt wrstling for the wwe title, do you not think that we might like to see a different challenger and champion for once? the only good thing i can say for cena is that hes good on the mike , but if you base champions on their mike skills then why have batista , lashley, mysterio etc. been champions? there is no way to get around the fact that cena is backed by mcmahon and thats is the ONLy reason that he has had a long title reign , he in no way shape or form deserved a single bit of it.

Alright, well then riddle me this. Who on the RAW brand roster do you think is capable (on a business stand point) to hold the WWE title. You can't have Randy Orton do it because he's fucking up backstage, Chris Masters was once in the title race, but he was ousted, and now the steroid bust doesn't help his cause at all, Shelton Benjamin (while a really talented wrestler) needs to learn not to botch some of his moves, Great Khali simply can't wrestle to hold the title and I don't think that anyone would actually give a shit if he was champion.

Right now, the truth is this, other than Cena, there is no one else on the roster who could draw attention, deserve, or show that they are capable to be champion. Maybe that's what the draft is for. Before that, you had HBK who could have been the only rebuttal to my theory, but a wrestler who has an injury problem with a risk of hurting himself badly is just bad to put the strap on him. Because what if he hurts himself, the entire WWE storyline would be fucked up.

The reason why we had such a high number of champions during the Attitude era was because there were endless possibilities at main events because you had crowd attractors like The Rock, Stone Cold, HHH, ect. Right now you only have John Cena to hold the title. Sometimes you have to dig further to find out why certain things are happening in wrestling.