[Official] John Cena Thread

[Mistaap]

I agree with michiganj24 when he talks about Cena. Cena can wrestle, but that is not his character. his character is a brawler. I think if he did have a fued with Benoit, then it would be great. They would bring out the best in eachother.

But I would not have flair fued with Cena. Flair is getting up there in age and I think his time is coming to a close. He is the greatest ever, but I think that he has seen his last main event.

Carlito and Cena would be a good fued. I would love to see that.

 

[cena_rvd_dx]

yer cena wouldn't only have about 5 or 6 moves well if u think he suxz then y did he make khail tap out cena is one of the stronges wwe superstars i dnt care if u hate him i lky and if hes crap then y as he been camp for about 2 yr now

 

[Downward Spiral]

All Cena talk and possible feuds and topics like that belong in the John Cena thread as that's what it's for. I'll merge this thread with it, but from now on, try and keep all Cena discussion in there.

*Merged*

 

[Downward Spiral]

yer cena wouldn't only have about 5 or 6 moves well if u think he suxz then y did he make khail tap out cena is one of the stronges wwe superstars i dnt care if u hate him i lky and if hes crap then y as he been camp for about 2 yr now

Firstly, talk like a civilised person, or at least attempt to convince us that there is some form of gray matter between your ears with your posts please. Just quickly, this is not a mark forum, so you may want to go elsewhere, assuming you don't believe wrestling is predetermined.

Clearly, you need to take a long, hard look at what has happened over the past few years with Cena. He has been built to look unstoppable against anyone and everyone, including guys like Big Show. This gets under our skin simply because of the lack of indifference week in and week out. I believe that just about anyone would be able to make the Great Khali tap out, because all it requires is very, very basic wrestling skill in doing an STF, not to mention the fact that Khali was told to tap out as wrestling is not real. If learning a move makes you special in your eyes, you really need a wrestling reality check, and there are plenty of people willing to give it to you. Cena has to look like he is Goliath, even it is against some giant who doesn't deserve the title of wrestler. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have Cena champion than Khali, but really, you expect Cena to go over anyone, Khali included, because that's just how he's booked.

In trying to make sense of what you posted, I believe you said that Cena has more than 5 or 6 moves. Well, so does Trevor Murdoch. So does even the Great Khali (possibly.) Does this make a good wrestler? Hell no? Devoting time to learning new moves which Cena hasn't done a lot of for sure since he's been champion, is a lot different to being able to consistently perform to a level that should be expected from the top guy in the WWE. What is wrong with Cena's moveset is that he can show maybe 1 or 2 talented moves in his 'arsenal', but all he does is repeat them week after week after week, and all his matches follow the same boring pattern: Cena takes the early upper hand, and after what seems like a dull, boring age, the heel fights back for about 2 seconds before Cena starts up the magic, does the standard 5 moves to finish off another stupid match that has everyone in tears of anger at him.

If he's crap why has he been champion for 2 years? Don't we all ask that same God damn question every day? Why is it that Cena, a man of very limited talent can sit above guys he isn't fit to tie the shoes of, for years on end? Not even the best have gotten title shots that long, and it has Hogan written all over it. Really, the standards the WWE set for their champions are so low, that really, talent doesn't account for anything when picking champions, so using the WWE Title as 'evidence' to prove Cena is actually a decent wrestler is just proof to us that you have no idea how bad the state of the WWE is right now, and simply, how boring and talentless Cena is. Beats me why he's still champion with all these open criticisms even McMahon knows about. Do you have an answer? I'd love to hear it.

Someone for God's sake come down from the heavens as a Cena fan who doesn't talk like a 5 year old! Please! At least attempt to look intelligent because really, being a Cena fanatic is one thing, but being someone who posts like a text message is even worse. Combine the two, and you will be shat on by everyone. Sorry to pick on you, but like others, I hate people who purposely (or are just really stupid) spell like you did, and who get angry at people who can dig out a plethora of reasons of why Cena is simply awful, while you only retort with an 'I don't care what you think' comment.

 

[Slyfox696]

Clearly, you need to take a long, hard look at what has happened over the past few years with Cena. He has been built to look unstoppable against anyone and everyone, including guys like Big Show. This gets under our skin simply because of the lack of indifference week in and week out. I believe that just about anyone would be able to make the Great Khali tap out, because all it requires is very, very basic wrestling skill in doing an STF, not to mention the fact that Khali was told to tap out as wrestling is not real. If learning a move makes you special in your eyes, you really need a wrestling reality check, and there are plenty of people willing to give it to you. Cena has to look like he is Goliath, even it is against some giant who doesn't deserve the title of wrestler. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have Cena champion than Khali, but really, you expect Cena to go over anyone, Khali included, because that's just how he's booked.

What astounds me is that people who claim to know a lot about wrestling (and you very well might), STILL don't know what move Cena uses to make people tap out. He's been doing it since his feud with Angle, and people still think it is an STF.

What is wrong with Cena's moveset is that he can show maybe 1 or 2 talented moves in his 'arsenal', but all he does is repeat them week after week after week,

But, not at his PPVs. His PPVs demonstrate more moves, that still apply to his basic wrestling psychology. But, you already said moves don't make a difference, so why are you bringing it up again?

and all his matches follow the same boring pattern: Cena takes the early upper hand, and after what seems like a dull, boring age, the heel fights back for about 2 seconds before Cena starts up the magic, does the standard 5 moves to finish off another stupid match that has everyone in tears of anger at him.

So, HBK's matches must be boring to you as well.

If he's crap why has he been champion for 2 years?

Maybe it's because professional wrestling is not a non-for-profit organization?

Don't we all ask that same God damn question every day?

Not really. Unlike many people, I can see that Cena is a very talented wrestler, and I also understand that he is a big draw and moneymaker. It makes perfect sense to me why he would be on top.

Why is it that Cena, a man of very limited talent can sit above guys he isn't fit to tie the shoes of, for years on end? Not even the best have gotten title shots that long, and it has Hogan written all over it.

And, explain to me why modeling their business after a guy that is the biggest moneymaker in American history ever is such a bad thing?

Really, the standards the WWE set for their champions are so low, that really, talent doesn't account for anything when picking champions, so using the WWE Title as 'evidence' to prove Cena is actually a decent wrestler is just proof to us that you have no idea how bad the state of the WWE is right now,

You mean in the middle of a financial upswing? You mean with increased house show attendance, increased Raw ratings, increased PPV buys and increased revenue?

and simply, how boring and talentless Cena is. Beats me why he's still champion with all these open criticisms even McMahon knows about. Do you have an answer? I'd love to hear it.

I'm glad I could oblige.

Someone for God's sake come down from the heavens as a Cena fan who doesn't talk like a 5 year old! Please! At least attempt to look intelligent because really, being a Cena fanatic is one thing, but being someone who posts like a text message is even worse.

I've been here for a few days now. Read back through the last few pages, and you can see some of my other posts.

 

[X]

Slyfox, once again you keep quoting the fact that the WWE is making more money now then before, but that has virtually no correlation between the quality of the WRESTLING product. Most of that rise in PPV buys is because Cena attracts a large number of little kids, you can't deny that, and all of those little kids parents will pay for whatever they want just as they did when you were a kid and a Hulkamaniac or a Stone Cold fan.

Don't be mistaken, WWE is in deep shit right now whether they know it or not. Their main event scene is horrible at the moment, with only guys like Cena, Edge, Khali, and Batista doing anything in the main event. And Lashley if you want to count that hack. Then there are the guys that were in the main event scene and are now injured/in trouble with management(Undertaker, HBK, Randy Orton, Triple H). Then you've got this mass departure of wrestlers being either fired or not resigning, like Big Show, RVD, Sabu, and soon to be guys like the Sandman. Add that onto the fact that the WWE is making the same mistake that WCW made for years. They aren't making any new stars. Who was the last star made? Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge? While those are all good, that was what? 3 years ago? I know it may seem premature, but you need to make new stars so that in a situation like this you can have plenty of talent to fall back on.

Take that into consideration with the fact that anyone with half a brain can tell that the WWE product is not anywhere near what it was only say five years ago.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox, once again you keep quoting the fact that the WWE is making more money now then before, but that has virtually no correlation between the quality of the WRESTLING product.

His comment was that he doesn't understand why John Cena is on top. I was telling him why he was on top.

Most of that rise in PPV buys is because Cena attracts a large number of little kids, you can't deny that, and all of those little kids parents will pay for whatever they want just as they did when you were a kid and a Hulkamaniac or a Stone Cold fan.

Does it really matter why? As long as they do?

And, today's Cena fans, are tomorrow's wrestling fans. And, if John Cena can attract in new and younger fans, then I think that is a good reason to keep him on top. Now, if they grow up to be 17 and don't like him anymore, that's fine, but by that time, they are already hooked. However, wrestling tends to lose so many around the time they turn 25, that it has to keep recycling and creating new fans. I mean, look at the Attitude era. That appealed to people 15-23. High school and college age kids. Well, eventually, those people got older, and got used to the shock TV, and the business went into a slump again (as well as Austin and Rock leaving). So, WWE has to create new fans.

And according to you, that is what Cena is doing. It's good for the business.

Don't be mistaken, WWE is in deep shit right now whether they know it or not. Their main event scene is horrible at the moment, with only guys like Cena, Edge, Khali, and Batista doing anything in the main event. And Lashley if you want to count that hack. Then there are the guys that were in the main event scene and are now injured/in trouble with management(Undertaker, HBK, Randy Orton, Triple H). Then you've got this mass departure of wrestlers being either fired or not resigning, like Big Show, RVD, Sabu, and soon to be guys like the Sandman. Add that onto the fact that the WWE is making the same mistake that WCW made for years. They aren't making any new stars. Who was the last star made? Cena, Batista, Orton, Edge? While those are all good, that was what? 3 years ago? I know it may seem premature, but you need to make new stars so that in a situation like this you can have plenty of talent to fall back on.

The WWE actually had new stars, they just left. Rock, Brock, Angle, Jericho...all of these guys are still in prime age to be wrestling, and Brock would just now be hitting his peak. They've made Batista (who's admittedly old), Cena, Orton, Lashley and Edge. They're building MVP, Kennedy, Umaga, Khali and others.

The WWE's future is actually pretty bright, especially with guys like Carlito, Nitro (if they'd ever quit half-assing it in the ring), Hardys, Cade & Murdoch, London & Kendrick, Kenny Dykstra etc all accompanying the guys already listed.

I don't think the WWE is in quite as much trouble as you think.

And, as for the quality of show, I think the current Smackdown product, even with the injuries, is doing a damn fine job. ECW was pretty entertaining with the New Breed vs. Originals feud. And, I think the Raw tag division is the best it's been in a long time.

Is it as good as 1999 or 2000? No. But, I still find it to be entertaining.

 

[X]

I too of course find it to be entertaining, I mean I wouldn't be here if I didn't would I? But in terms of the quality of the product, it's absolute shit compared to five years ago. Sure, guys like Brock left, but guys like Rock & Austin were already peaked in their career and were heading out, and quite obviously at that. Sure, Rock was and is still very young, but as soon as his Hollywood career took off the WWE should've known he'd be making sporadic appearances at best.

Kennedy is definately a new big star from that true, but MVP I just don't see making it past the midcard. He's got all the talent, but the gimmick just doesn't allow for him to be taken seriously in a main event atmosphere. And as for Umaga, his career is going to go to shit, it has been ever since he was built up for an entire year as a monster and then destroyed in two weeks by John Cena. His feud with Lashley is mediocre at best, and you can bank on it that he'll just become more and more obscure in the fold until eventually he's just gone alltogether, kind of like after Rikishi got his big push in the fall of 2000 only to be destroyed and have his career turn to shit. And Khali is the same exact thing, built up like a monster, can't wrestle a good match if his life depended on it, is one of the most boring things to ever grace a TV. He'll be on top for as long as this feud with Cena lasts, then when Cena crushes him too you can expect his career to go the same route as Umaga's will---into the toilet.

How exactly do you think guys like Carlito or Nitro are half-assing it in the ring? They give it their all out there week in and week out and routinely outwrestle the main events. I don't know about Nitro going anywhere considering his relationship with Melina and Joey Matthews (Joey Mercury), but Carlito I definately see making it to the main event as a top heel.

Overall though, while yes it is a good thing that more fans are being attracted to the product by Cena, however the WWE was able to do the exact same thing in the Attitude era and in 2000-2003 while still routinely putting on amazing matches with great main eventer feuds. It was able to appeal to both the young fans and the old time smarks. Nowadays they've cut out the smarks. And while it's not necessarily a bad thing, atleast when they were listening to the smarks they knew how to book a damn good show. These days the only show that I look forward to is Smackdown, every other show and PPV this year has been nothing short of crap. There's no unpredictability any more---you know exactly what is going to happen, almost every single match every single time. That...should NOT...be happening.

 

[Slyfox696]

Kennedy is definately a new big star from that true, but MVP I just don't see making it past the midcard. He's got all the talent, but the gimmick just doesn't allow for him to be taken seriously in a main event atmosphere. And as for Umaga, his career is going to go to shit, it has been ever since he was built up for an entire year as a monster and then destroyed in two weeks by John Cena. His feud with Lashley is mediocre at best, and you can bank on it that he'll just become more and more obscure in the fold until eventually he's just gone alltogether, kind of like after Rikishi got his big push in the fall of 2000 only to be destroyed and have his career turn to shit. And Khali is the same exact thing, built up like a monster, can't wrestle a good match if his life depended on it, is one of the most boring things to ever grace a TV. He'll be on top for as long as this feud with Cena lasts, then when Cena crushes him too you can expect his career to go the same route as Umaga's will---into the toilet.

I personally prefer MVP to Kennedy. And, I'm not really a fan of either, but of the two, I prefer MVP. But, it's clear both of them look to be pushed as the next main-eventers.

And, unlike Rikishi, Umaga is a good wrestler, who plays his role well. Khali I could easily see doing what you said, but I could also see him staying around for a while. He's an attraction. Maybe not a good wrestler, but he's an attraction. And, attractions make money.

How exactly do you think guys like Carlito or Nitro are half-assing it in the ring? They give it their all out there week in and week out and routinely outwrestle the main events. I don't know about Nitro going anywhere considering his relationship with Melina and Joey Matthews (Joey Mercury), but Carlito I definately see making it to the main event as a top heel.

You can just see it in their performance. Their matches are boring, and they seem uninterested in performing. And, I'm not the only one who feels this way...

source: pwtorch

Management are becoming increasingly concerned with the performance of some of the younger under card wrestlers at house shows. Carlito, Johnny Nitro and Shelton Benjamin to name a few.

The feeling is that certain wrestlers are laying back at house shows and only working hard on TV, this could be why Nitro has been jobbing a lot lately.

With the recent injuries WWE are sending the message that if wrestlers pick up their game at house shows and prove their worth, there could be some pushes in the pipeline.

source: http://www.wrestling-edge.com/wwene...ll&id=1180117449&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&

And, personally, I question how hard they are working on TV...

Overall though, while yes it is a good thing that more fans are being attracted to the product by Cena, however the WWE was able to do the exact same thing in the Attitude era and in 2000-2003 while still routinely putting on amazing matches with great main eventer feuds.

If this were true, then how come the WWE experienced such a downturn in 2002-2004, from which it is only now recovering from?

It was able to appeal to both the young fans and the old time smarks. Nowadays they've cut out the smarks. And while it's not necessarily a bad thing, atleast when they were listening to the smarks they knew how to book a damn good show.

I clearly remember angles such as "Brawl for All", culminating with Bart Gunn getting embarrassed by Butterbean at Wrestlemania 15, proving that pro wrestlers don't belong in the ring with real fighters. I remember Goldust being followed around by the Blue Meanie, I remember the Mean Street Posse, Head Cheese, Rikishi dancing and giving people a stink face, Chyna winning the Intercontinental championship, Vince McMahon winning the Royal Rumble, I remember the Kat vs. Terri in a "Stinkface" match, Naked Mideon...etc...

Now, were those really smark angles?

 

[X]

I never said they were, you're misinterpreting me, I said they appealed to BOTH the smarks and the marks---which all of those angles you just mentioned appealed to.

Notice how you said the downturn in 2002-2004, which is exactly when the WWE started going downhill, as I said before. There are new younger fans attracted to Cena and the product, this however does NOT mean the product itself is better. The popularity factor does NOT determine the worth and quality of something, if that were true then Britney Spears would be heralded as a musical genius, American Idol would be an emmy winner, and Pirates of the Caribbean would be winning oscars.

 

[kennyg9]

Let me ask you this, if John Cena weren't in the WWE how could it be a better product as a whole? You watch to be entertained and be into the product in the ring either positive or negative. And whether you like it or not John Cena brings the most to the table in the WWE. I'm not putting him the category of Hogan, Austin, Rock but when those guys are in teh ring there is a buzz in the crowd and with Cena it is the same way. Lay off the guy if it werent for him the WWE would be in a real real bad way financially. The guy is increasing the amount of moves he performs but if you owned the WWE would you want to risk injury to your biggest asset, i think not.

 

[Slyfox696]

I never said they were, you're misinterpreting me, I said they appealed to BOTH the smarks and the marks---which all of those angles you just mentioned appealed to.

Oh, I think the WWE caters to the smark crowd just fine. CM Punk's big push, Edge as World Champion, HBK in the main-event of Wrestlemania, London and Kendrick the longest reigning tag team champions, the reformation of DX etc. are all smark desired areas of the product. RVD was champion, ONS was held in the Hammerstein, Benoit was US champ....they cater to the smarks enough.

Notice how you said the downturn in 2002-2004, which is exactly when the WWE started going downhill, as I said before. There are new younger fans attracted to Cena and the product, this however does NOT mean the product itself is better.

Well, I guess that's kind of difference in personal taste. I would argue that if more people are watching, then more people agree it's better. And the difference between your Spears/Pirates example, is that they are being compared to different artists of the same medium. That's not what's happening here, we're comparing the WWE against itself. So, I think the better question to ask is which was the better movie...Rocky 2 or Rocky 5? I think the popular pick, and, in my opinion, the right pick, is Rocky 2.

 

[Shocky]

CM Punk's big push, Edge as World Champion, HBK in the main-event of Wrestlemania, London and Kendrick the longest reigning tag team champions, the reformation of DX etc.

I wouldn't say that they are playing to the smarks.

CM Punk: The only non ECW Original Face on the roster, so naturally he's going to get the push.

Edge: What choice did the WWE have left to put the strap on? News sites have reported Vinnie Mac wasn't happy with Batista and the strap, this goes back to the decision to have King Booker to drop. Vince questioned that move, but ok'd it. Edge is the most deserving person on the roster, regardless of who wanted him to be champion.

London/Kendrick: Done out of neccessity. There aren't any tag teams on Smackdown.

HBK ME at WM: I think more people were pissed at this then not. The smarks, including me, wanted the Deadman in the main event of WM, not HBK. I for one am tired of HHH and HBK powerplaying there ways into putting Cena over at WM. Isn't the Rumble winner supposed to be in the Main Event at Wrestlemania anyway, not the brand main event.

 

[watchingandwaiting]

Since the thread about Cena next fued got merged in here..

I don't think benoit or flair is a good option for Cena's next fued. No disrespect to everything that Flair has done for the business, but I can't stand watching him wrestle. I realize he is still over on his reputation, but there is no reason for him to be in the title picture. Plus I think half of this forum would have a stroke if/when Cena made Flair tap.. I think Benoit is a bad idea because 1. ECW needs him to be champ and 2. I don't think another face/face fued would do Raw any good. If I had a gun to my head and had to choose betwen the two, I'd go with Benoit.

The fued that I think makes the most sense is with Shane McMahon..Now before I go down in flames for this... Shane is actually a decent wrestler. He has solid, if unspectacular, mat skills, a few splashy moves, and can take plenty of bumps. He's one of the most over heels in the business on his own and by association with Vince. The storyline would be very simple to pull off.. WWE has already been teasing Shane being jealous of Vince having the ECW belt..so the justification would be that he wants a belt of his own. Plus, this would set the stage for a HUGE double turn at Summerslam by having Vince screw Shane and help Cena, which would inject new life into Cena's character. I guess the downside to that is we would see a Vince/Shane fued (again) but it has been a while and I think the benefit of a Cena heel turn would outweigh the negative of that fued. So, in conclusion..Cena/Shane O Mac for Summerslam.. who's with me?

 

[Slyfox696]

CM Punk: The only non ECW Original Face on the roster, so naturally he's going to get the push.

CM Punk was going to get a push no matter what. It was clear from the very first night he debuted.

Edge: What choice did the WWE have left to put the strap on? News sites have reported Vinnie Mac wasn't happy with Batista and the strap, this goes back to the decision to have King Booker to drop. Vince questioned that move, but ok'd it. Edge is the most deserving person on the roster, regardless of who wanted him to be champion.

Ok, how about putting the title on the Undertaker? And, why was it Edge that LEFT RAW, to go to Smackdown?

London/Kendrick: Done out of neccessity. There aren't any tag teams on Smackdown.

There were never any tag teams on Raw, and yet they still had the belts on different people. They didn't have to give the belts to London and Kendrick. They could have put them on The Pitbulls or Deuce/Domino a long time ago, or kept them on MNM (remember, thats who they won them from).

HBK ME at WM: I think more people were pissed at this then not. The smarks, including me, wanted the Deadman in the main event of WM, not HBK. I for one am tired of HHH and HBK powerplaying there ways into putting Cena over at WM. Isn't the Rumble winner supposed to be in the Main Event at Wrestlemania anyway, not the brand main event.

Nah, the Main Event is the Raw main event. The Rumble winner doesn't get a main event shot, he gets a title shot. Now, it happened where many of the Rumble winners challenged for the Raw title many years, but, Raw, with the exception of one year, goes last. Because it's the A show.

 

[Come Back Rock]

I was forced to like John Cena when he came to raw in june of 2005 and at first i liked him. But after awhile he became to predictable and not fun. However At One Night Stand 2006 when Cena fought RVD, he gain my respect as a long time wrestling fan again.

I think its better for the WWE to have Cena fight guys Who are a face just like him.

I wish over the summer They do a John Cena Vs. Ric Flair match because John Cena Vs. any "Giant monster" is getting old. It makes Cena look damn near impossiable to beat. But if he were to fight Ric Flair for the WWE title, It would be a living legend getting the title back and will show the WWE fans (and specfically shows the younger 12 and under crowd) that John Cena CAN beat a "monster","Giant",or a Rated-R superstar.
But when it comes down to a WRESTLER who has been in the wrestling business for more than 25 years and is still able to entertain fans today and little kids who know who Ric Flair is, it shows that WWE came along way, and is going to be successful for a very long time.

Maybe one day John Cena can be the next Ric Flair

 

[Downward Spiral]

What astounds me is that people who claim to know a lot about wrestling (and you very well might), STILL don't know what move Cena uses to make people tap out. He's been doing it since his feud with Angle, and people still think it is an STF.

Well really, unless you are an over-the-top, precise smark who has to be perfectly right in everything one says, it appears that what Cena calls the STFU is very similar to an STF, so really, try to point out more blatantly idiotic comments rather than ones like that. I looked it up and in fact it was an STS. Man, I was way off.

But, not at his PPVs. His PPVs demonstrate more moves, that still apply to his basic wrestling psychology. But, you already said moves don't make a difference, so why are you bringing it up again?

Yeah, I've said for people to stop bitching about everyone saying Cena only has 5 moves as their only excuse, and really when you look at it, that's basically all that Cena does. I'll admit I don't see a lot of Cena PPV's and don't want to, but if someone only saves their good matches for PPV's, that really doesn't mean much, as we see maybe 1 PPV a month with Cena on and supposedly performing well, as opposed to 4 weeks straight of Cena crap.

So, HBK's matches must be boring to you as well.

Actually, I find that HBK's standard of matches vary greatly to what Cena does. I find that every one of HBK's matches seem to be different to the last and he deserves respect for that. Putting Cena in the same boat as Michaels for match standards is the last thing I want to do. Even the 40 year old Michaels with back problems and other plaguing injuries performs better than the young Cena, who has had every opportunity to better himself but has never delivered. Michael's matches may follow the same pattern occasionally, but it's the selling and timing aspects of the match that make it great, and that's where he differs from Cena, not to mention I can tolerate him winning a match with his 5 moves of death far more than I can seeing Cena win like that. Yeah Cena marks, Michaels has the same finishing styles as Cena, but it's what he does before that counts.

Maybe it's because professional wrestling is not a non-for-profit organization?

And we're supposed to sit back and enjoy watching a company devoted to ganing more and more money while neglecting each and every fan that has begged for something different? If your taste is things that sell merchandise and cheapen the name wrestling, go ahead and enjoy watching Cena. Wrestling is for kids now, and that is top priority. If the WWE really cared about what the majority of real wrestling fans thought, why is Cena champion when that is the thing we hate the most? It's like they're shoving him down our throats for the fun of it, and the fact that they are raking in the millions is the reason we hate the WWE and Cena so much, so really, don't question why we are pissed with Cena's reign that has stretched on WAY too far.

Not really. Unlike many people, I can see that Cena is a very talented wrestler, and I also understand that he is a big draw and moneymaker. It makes perfect sense to me why he would be on top.

Talent is in the eye of the beholder really. If you are a fan of short and sweet matches, you'll like Cena, but if you know that there are wrestlers out there who deserve Cena's spot on pure wrestling talent, you'll hate him all the more. Also, I know that there are Cena fans out there on this board. Majority of people's opinions are that they despise him, and I for one am going to post to speak to the majority here. We can all see that it is all about money, but what's to say a guy can't have a gimmick that sells merchandise AND can wrestle? Steve Austin did, Mick Foley did, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and anyone else were guys that got the crowd going not only from their characters but also from their top wrestling skills. I can think of plenty of guys in the WWE that have a persona and skill that deserve to be champion, so why should a guy with much less skill than his peers be champion? Another thing that grinds our gears is that because Cena is champion for money, that means the WWE and McMahon is just terribly greedy and is willing to dessecrate an entire company in the name of money.

And, explain to me why modeling their business after a guy that is the biggest moneymaker in American history ever is such a bad thing?

Because showcasing great wrestling got the further than any other company has ever been. Couple that in with storylines worth watching, and you have a company that is going to make money and please all the fans. Take the great wrestling completely out of the picture and make the storylines pathetically soap opera-ish, and you are going to piss of a lot of people, and really, no one knows how big a profit they are making now compared to 6 or 7 years ago. I mean, when little kids and the smarks all loved the same product, you'd think it would be making a little more profit. But of course, pissing off a large number of fans while catering to little kids is a great business move. Hogan made money because he was a one of a kind. But where he couldn't wrestle well, other guys around him could, and you can't say that about Cena and the current roster, so that's where it's different. Cena is supposed to be the wrestler that can carry the company, but I don't think even Hogan has gotten this much assistance in getting over. Once again, I'm saying that I hate the fact that the WWE is so money-oriented now, and a lot of others do. Focus on wrestling, and not duplicating Hulk Hogans, and the money will come.

You mean in the middle of a financial upswing? You mean with increased house show attendance, increased Raw ratings, increased PPV buys and increased revenue?

Selling themselves out to movies and music and all that other crap doesn't seem to be creating a financial upswing for the WWE at all. Increased house show attendance? Got any figures to prove that? Because from what I've read, 1000 people doesn't seem like big numbers, and a lot of the time, that number is in arenas with a capacity far bigger than that. Take a look back at the ratings figures from the time when the WWE was awesome, and guys like Cena weren't around, to now. You see, in primary school, I would have learnt that a 5 or 6 is a lot bigger than a 3 or 4. I don't see where you think they are increasing, because going from say, a 3.4 to a 3.5 may appear good, but it is 1 or 2 points behind where it used to be, so it would appear they have been on the downhill for a while in that aspect. With about 2 or 3 PPV's a month it would seem, you would think that a lot of people wouldn't want to shell out 120 bucks every month, so again, would you get some figures to prove this rise in PPV rates? I'm sure they would have been much higher when there wasn't so many and when they weren't so clustered, not to mention when they actually differed every PPV. It appears that every PPV is a duplicate of the last, and that's not exactly enticing people to buy them.

Increased revenue? I'm sure McMahon continues to roll in his ever growing amount of capital. This is largely because he is behind a company that has so much money that it is asinine that they don't take risks, and will remain financially stable for years to come, whether I like it or not. Does a company with bucketloads of cash equate to a good product? Maybe for little kids, but not for me.

I'm glad I could oblige.

I've been here for a few days now. Read back through the last few pages, and you can see some of my other posts.

I'm glad that you knew how to spell, but your opinions remind me of someone called Kaedon. This is an opinion board. I like to think I present what I post as my opinion and nothing else, but you on the other hand say things like increased PPV buys when you or anyone else has no idea what the actual numbers are. Who knows? They could be on the rise, but just looking at what they are presenting and the seemingly decreasing popularity of the product (look at the crowd reactions, or lack of them for anything in the WWE now) and it would appear that it is not on the rise at all. Again, that's just my view, and I could be wrong, but I doubt it in that case.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well really, unless you are an over-the-top, precise smark who has to be perfectly right in everything one says, it appears that what Cena calls the STFU is very similar to an STF, so really, try to point out more blatantly idiotic comments rather than ones like that. I looked it up and in fact it was an STS. Man, I was way off.

You were way off. An STS is a totally different move than an STF, and it causes a completely different reason for an opponent to tap out, thus altering the psychology of a match significantly. I mean, we don't consider the Figure Four and the Sharpshooter to have the same effect do we?

Yeah, I've said for people to stop bitching about everyone saying Cena only has 5 moves as their only excuse, and really when you look at it, that's basically all that Cena does. I'll admit I don't see a lot of Cena PPV's and don't want to, but if someone only saves their good matches for PPV's, that really doesn't mean much, as we see maybe 1 PPV a month with Cena on and supposedly performing well, as opposed to 4 weeks straight of Cena crap.

The difference is that PPV matches are longer and are no where near as angle building as free TV shows are. Usually, you don't give away good matches on free TV, you make people buy the PPV to do that. So, it makes sense to give your better matches on PPV, which includes "more moves"...if that was really important.

Actually, I find that HBK's standard of matches vary greatly to what Cena does. I find that every one of HBK's matches seem to be different to the last and he deserves respect for that. Putting Cena in the same boat as Michaels for match standards is the last thing I want to do. Even the 40 year old Michaels with back problems and other plaguing injuries performs better than the young Cena, who has had every opportunity to better himself but has never delivered. Michael's matches may follow the same pattern occasionally, but it's the selling and timing aspects of the match that make it great, and that's where he differs from Cena, not to mention I can tolerate him winning a match with his 5 moves of death far more than I can seeing Cena win like that. Yeah Cena marks, Michaels has the same finishing styles as Cena, but it's what he does before that counts.

Michaels matches in the last couple of years follow the same pattern that people blame Cena for. Starts the match on offense, gets beatdown in the middle, uses a 5 Moves of Doom for the end...usually culminating with some kind of reason he can't pull off the SCM, before he finally does connect.

So, it seems ridiculous to me to praise HBK's matches for the same reason people complain about Cena's. Personally, I don't have a problem with either one doing it, but it seems hypocritical to do that, no matter what the reason.

And we're supposed to sit back and enjoy watching a company devoted to ganing more and more money while neglecting each and every fan that has begged for something different?

No, clearly, it would be better for the WWE to cater to all of the contradicting smarks' opinions, not make any money, and go out of business. Then we could REALLY enjoy the WWE.

Talent is in the eye of the beholder really. If you are a fan of short and sweet matches, you'll like Cena, but if you know that there are wrestlers out there who deserve Cena's spot on pure wrestling talent, you'll hate him all the more.

John Cena has talent. He also has things that guys like Shelton Benjamin, for example, don't. And that's called mass appeal. And Shelton Benjamin is even one of my favorite wrestlers.

We can all see that it is all about money, but what's to say a guy can't have a gimmick that sells merchandise AND can wrestle? Steve Austin did, Mick Foley did, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and anyone else were guys that got the crowd going not only from their characters but also from their top wrestling skills.

Let's talk about Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart for a second. HBK has never been a proven draw, and he and Bret Hart lorded of the WWF in it's worst time financially ever. Additionally, in his match against Sid, HBK was getting outpopped by the heel Sid, and Bret was getting booed in favor of a foul-mouthed back-stabbing heel.

Maybe they weren't the best examples to use, huh?

And, like I've said before, if we compare every main-eventer to guys like Steve Austin, then they are always going to be found lacking. Don't compare Cena to Austin, compare him to the current roster. And Cena is just as worthy as anyone else on the roster.

Another thing that grinds our gears is that because Cena is champion for money, that means the WWE and McMahon is just terribly greedy and is willing to dessecrate an entire company in the name of money.

It's his company. And, you act like all of a sudden wrestling is about making money. It's always been about that. I know we have this romantic notion that wrestling is for the fans and the fans should decide this or that, but at the end of the day, a wrestling company is going to do what's in its best interest to stay in business.

Because showcasing great wrestling got the further than any other company has ever been.

When was this, pray tell.

and really, no one knows how big a profit they are making now compared to 6 or 7 years ago.

Maybe not, but we know how much better the profit is now, than a few years back when Cena wasn't on top.

Hogan made money because he was a one of a kind. But where he couldn't wrestle well, other guys around him could, and you can't say that about Cena and the current roster, so that's where it's different.

Hogan was a very good wrestler.

Cena is supposed to be the wrestler that can carry the company, but I don't think even Hogan has gotten this much assistance in getting over.

Well, Hulk Hogan held the WWF Title continuously for four straight years in one reign, which totaled 1,474 days. Cena, in all of his combined reigns, hasn't even held the title for half that amount. Take that how you want to.

Selling themselves out to movies and music and all that other crap doesn't seem to be creating a financial upswing for the WWE at all. Increased house show attendance? Got any figures to prove that?

Luckily for you, I do.

The average attendance for live events in 2005 for North America was 4,250. The average attendance for live events in 2006 was 4,990, which is a positive change of 17%.

The average attendance for live events in 2005 for International events was 9,070. The average attendance for live events in 2006 for International events was 9,160.

The net revenue from 2005 was $366.4, and the net revenue in 2006 was $400.1 (in millions of dollars).

source: http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/YET200610-K.pdf

How does that work for you?

Take a look back at the ratings figures from the time when the WWE was awesome, and guys like Cena weren't around, to now. You see, in primary school, I would have learnt that a 5 or 6 is a lot bigger than a 3 or 4. I don't see where you think they are increasing, because going from say, a 3.4 to a 3.5 may appear good, but it is 1 or 2 points behind where it used to be

Except, they went down before Cena was on top. But, look how they've come up since Cena was on top. Raw ratings in 2004 averaged around a 3.7, in 2005 around a 3.8 and in 2006 around a 3.9. So, Raw ratings dropped significantly before Cena, and are going up during Cena's reign...now, how is that Cena's fault?

With about 2 or 3 PPV's a month it would seem, you would think that a lot of people wouldn't want to shell out 120 bucks every month, so again, would you get some figures to prove this rise in PPV rates?

Haven't I already provided the information on this subject?

, Also, I would like to point out that 2006 PPVs on a whole, of which Cena was apart of most of them, did much better than 2005 PPVs on a whole. There was an 18% increase in number of buys in 2006 from 2005. Now, I imagine you're thinking at this point, "Well of course, because there were more PPVs". Well, let me address that as well. The average number of buys for a 2005 PPV was 377,200. The average number of buys for a 2006 PPV was 390,069. So, even with the additional PPVs, which usually drives buyrates per PPV lower, the average buyrate for PPVs in 2006 were higher than they were in 2005.

source: http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/YET200610-K.pdf

Yup.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showpost.php?p=175593&postcount=390]

I'm glad that you knew how to spell, but your opinions remind me of someone called Kaedon. This is an opinion board. I like to think I present what I post as my opinion and nothing else, but you on the other hand say things like increased PPV buys when you or anyone else has no idea what the actual numbers are. Who knows?

Well, I would imagine the WWE knows. And, since they post the figures on their corporate website, which is what I have quoted to you, I'm sure they understand what is making them money. And, even if they didn't post their numbers, why would they push someone so hard that wasn't making them money? It wouldn't make sense. So, one of two things would have to happen. One, they would have to consider him to be a good wrestler, which he is, or that he is making them a lot of money, which he is. It's common sense.

 

[Kasey]

No, clearly, it would be better for the WWE to cater to all of the contradicting smarks' opinions, not make any money, and go out of business. Then we could REALLY enjoy the WWE.

Or maybe they could put out a product that would cater to the lifesblood of their business? The diehards, maybe? The last time they did that and made a product that pleased the diehards...the masses came right along, too, and much more money was made on average than they do these days bleeding Cena's bull$hit Superman routine dry.

John Cena has talent. He also has things that guys like Shelton Benjamin, for example, don't. And that's called mass appeal. And Shelton Benjamin is even one of my favorite wrestlers.

Cena sure looked like he had mass appeal at Wrestlemania this year. I mean, seeing as he was the bona fide face going into it and the entire city of Detroit hated his f*cking guts, it sure looks to me like he appeals to the masses, eh? Shelton doesn't have the mass appeal because he isn't Vince's pet project and he doesn't have the mic skills (a requirement to be at the top of the WWE today) to be rammed down our throats with win after win after win until a vast majority of the populace just gives up and accepts it.

Let's talk about Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart for a second. HBK has never been a proven draw, and he and Bret Hart lorded of the WWF in it's worst time financially ever. Additionally, in his match against Sid, HBK was getting outpopped by the heel Sid, and Bret was getting booed in favor of a foul-mouthed back-stabbing heel.

Of course HBK was getting outpopped by Sid at the time. Sid was a prototypical anti-hero ala Austin. In the end, they changed the nature of the game with HBK because they were pushing that same corny routine that they've been bleeding out of Cena for the last three years. Notice the boos that Cena gets against the supposed bad guy Michaels...at Wrestlemania, no less? Of course HBK and Hart were never proven draws stateside. They were both either out of town (Hart) or on the shelf (HBK) when the WWF finally made it to its apex in the late nineties. However, the dawn of the Attitude Era wasn't ushered in by anyone but those two. They were two of the top catalysts (along with Taker) during the resurgence in 1997 that started garnering fearsome crowd reactions. They got the ball rolling for Vince. The other talent just kept it moving.

And, like I've said before, if we compare every main-eventer to guys like Steve Austin, then they are always going to be found lacking. Don't compare Cena to Austin, compare him to the current roster. And Cena is just as worthy as anyone else on the roster.

Maybe that's because a majority of the current roster is $hit? Just maybe? Cena might be worthy. However, when he gets pushed over guys like Christian and Angle...then I'd have a problem. Funny thing is that WWE management was too stupid to see this. They tried building Cena by packaging him against these two and they outpopped him dead cold. Backfire and a half. Same thing happened this year again with Cena and HBK. Austin, Rock, and a number of other guys never had that happen during their big pushes, did they? No. Each of their big pushes went out just like clockwork and was executed to perfection with the desired reactions achieved.

It's his company. And, you act like all of a sudden wrestling is about making money. It's always been about that. I know we have this romantic notion that wrestling is for the fans and the fans should decide this or that, but at the end of the day, a wrestling company is going to do what's in its best interest to stay in business.

Of course it's about the money. However, Vince and his crew should pay attention. They have about half the cumulative audience that was watching wrestling on Monday nights at the end of the nineties. Not only did they lose about half of their own audience...but they also lost the WCW audience as well. You figure that they'd see the reactions some of the talent gets and would actually listen to the fans (even the marks in attendance for pete's sake). The last time they really did that, they made way more money than they make now. And that's without all the crappy movies they produce these days.

Hogan was a very good wrestler.

Yes, before 1990. And typically in Japan.

The average attendance for live events in 2005 for North America was 4,250. The average attendance for live events in 2006 was 4,990, which is a positive change of 17%.

The average attendance for live events in 2005 for International events was 9,070. The average attendance for live events in 2006 for International events was 9,160.

The net revenue from 2005 was $366.4, and the net revenue in 2006 was $400.1 (in millions of dollars).

source: http://corporate.wwe.com/documents/YET200610-K.pdf

Not much of a quantum leap dollars-wise, Sly. Tell me, do they happen to have the figures they produced during 98-01? I'd be interested to see those.

Except, they went down before Cena was on top. But, look how they've come up since Cena was on top. Raw ratings in 2004 averaged around a 3.7, in 2005 around a 3.8 and in 2006 around a 3.9. So, Raw ratings dropped significantly before Cena, and are going up during Cena's reign...now, how is that Cena's fault?

Wow. A whopping difference for a show that once did nearly twice the entire rating? This is their big answer to the gaping ratings recession they caused? John Cena and his two two whole tenths of a point? Color me impressed.

Well, I would imagine the WWE knows. And, since they post the figures on their corporate website, which is what I have quoted to you, I'm sure they understand what is making them money. And, even if they didn't post their numbers, why would they push someone so hard that wasn't making them money? It wouldn't make sense. So, one of two things would have to happen. One, they would have to consider him to be a good wrestler, which he is, or that he is making them a lot of money, which he is. It's common sense.

Maybe they could push someone else that would make them even more money, perhaps? I mean, just allow me to play devil's advocate, here. Seeing as there is usually a massive chunk of people in the audience that boos the hell out of Cena anytime he takes on a remotely liked superstar ala HBK, it would stand to reason that if they pushed HBK in a similar fashion or at least booked the show in a way that would allow the other contingent of Cena haters to come over into the fold...don't you think they'd sell even more T-shirts and stuff? Chances are, most of the Cena haters (myself included) aren't about to go rush out and buy one of his f*cking T-shirts. That's just my hypothesis, but oh well. The truth is they've been ramming a dud down everyone's throats for the last three years. They haven't had a bonafide pop-enveloping superstar for quite sometime that they've had to use. My rationale is that if something isn't working to perfection...fix it.

 

[Dan1607]

Yea, that is what I tried to point out, if someone like HBK or anyone else was pushed like Cena then, more merchandise would be bought.

In terms of talent Cena is 'okay' at best and that’s being fair, to WWE standards. Personally if he was in TNA he wouldn’t be used more than once a month because of his lack of talent.

I admit Cena has good mike skills, but whenever he’s on the mike he makes my ears bleed, with he same repetitive bullshit. He’s also given lines similar to something Austin or the rock would say which just sounds crap, im not sure weather this is on WWE's or Cena's behalf.

In all honest when I see Cena he isn’t that bad but the problem is, that he’s pushed in front of so many better performers, and it just doesn’t stop there he’s pushed in such a way that people don’t believe it in a VERY bad way; Making Khali tap out, etc.

Beating Triple H and HBK consecutively at WM’s
Making Benoit tap out
Being the next Giant killer, Khali, Umaga, Big show and many more; Taker never got to be a giant killer AND have the strap, so why should Cena?
And don’t say taker did win Championships because 1, they were VERY short and 2, he went into normal feuds, one’s which put Cena’s to shame.

Another problem is his reign lengths, I don’t care who it is someone having the title longer than 6 months is boring, but it’s even worse when the storylines are crap and the SAME things keeps happening.

At times I’ve actually wanted Cena to get badly injured and never wrestle

And what’s with the super man routine? And ill admit everyone has a routine Austin, rock, HBK, triple H, Benoit, taker, but it’s when it gets to the point when people think “didn’t he do that exact same thing last week?”

About the ratings I feel that it doesn’t have anything to do with what’s going on in the company in all honest I believe that it has changed with the times, so basically Wrestling isn’t as popular as it used to, obviously though if they put on a better product and remove that excuse for a champion Cena WWE will get higher ratings but only to some extent, I believe that Ratings wont go higher than 5 EVER, the only way would be to create a whole new product all together, WWE had a chance to do this with ECW but failed.




Now unlike everyone else I am going to make a solution and feel free too add;
Cena should loose the title at some point and take an injury break (kayfabe) and than come back after a while in a slightly new gimmick (basically non superman) and start a solid mid-card division and fight for the US or IC title and that is being kind at best, now this will not only get higher ratings by having a more worthy Main eventer but it will also allow the women and children to buy their crappy T-shirts and cheer for him etc.
As a side note they should also do something similar to Batista and Bobby lashly but they look too big for Mid-card so they should just save them the trouble and just fire their worthless asses so they can go join a body building company or whatever.

 

[Slyfox696]

Cena sure looked like he had mass appeal at Wrestlemania this year. I mean, seeing as he was the bona fide face going into it and the entire city of Detroit hated his f*cking guts, it sure looks to me like he appeals to the masses, eh? Shelton doesn't have the mass appeal because he isn't Vince's pet project and he doesn't have the mic skills (a requirement to be at the top of the WWE today) to be rammed down our throats with win after win after win until a vast majority of the populace just gives up and accepts it.

HBK was a heel? That's news to me. And, Cena does have mass appeal. Whether you show up to boo him, or show up to cheer him, you still show up. That's what his appeal is. Unlike other guys on the roster, almost everyone CARES about Cena, one way or the other.

However, the dawn of the Attitude Era wasn't ushered in by anyone but those two. They were two of the top catalysts (along with Taker) during the resurgence in 1997 that started garnering fearsome crowd reactions. They got the ball rolling for Vince. The other talent just kept it moving.

I'm going to ask you to clarify this, because I could have swore you just said that Steve Austin "just kept it moving"...so, is that REALLY what you meant? Because Steve Austin was THE catalyst for the increase in business. Actually, the Steve Austin vs. Mr. McMahon feud was the catalyst for business. The WWF didn't start drawing big until then.

Maybe that's because a majority of the current roster is $hit? Just maybe?

While I disagree with you, what's your point? Even if the current roster is bad, then Cena is still worthy of being the champion. Not really sure what your point is here.

Of course it's about the money. However, Vince and his crew should pay attention. They have about half the cumulative audience that was watching wrestling on Monday nights at the end of the nineties.

They lost that audience, not with Cena, Batista, and Lashley on top, but when Jericho, Triple H, Benoit, Guerrero, Lesnar, and Angle were on top. They've only recently started making their way up with Cena and company on top.

So, what does that mean?

Not much of a quantum leap dollars-wise, Sly. Tell me, do they happen to have the figures they produced during 98-01? I'd be interested to see those.

Who cares what the numbers were then? The fact is they are doing better now than they were two or three years ago, when guys like Jericho, Triple H, Benoit, Guerrero, and Angle were on top.

I mean, the Attitude era is the greatest moneymaking era for the WWF ever. If you're going to compare everything else to it, of course it's going to be found lacking. The Attitude cannot be used for comparison. It'd be like saying Kobe Bryant sucks because he's not as good as Michael Jordan. It's ridiculous.

Maybe they could push someone else that would make them even more money, perhaps? I mean, just allow me to play devil's advocate, here. Seeing as there is usually a massive chunk of people in the audience that boos the hell out of Cena anytime he takes on a remotely liked superstar ala HBK, it would stand to reason that if they pushed HBK in a similar fashion

The mere fact that you are insinuating that HBK could receive any greater of a push than he's had over his career makes me laugh. The man has had 13 title reigns and has not jobbed to lose the title in 9 of them. Of the four he did job for, three of them were to friends (Janetty, Sid, HHH), and the other one he had to do for a fear of a beating from Taker (Austin).

Let's look at his final weeks before he left. He faced the Great Khali, and lost, not by laying flat on his back with a boot on his chest like every wrestler before him, but instead layed out at ringside with a referee stoppage. The next week on Raw, despite wrestling with a concussion, and getting beat up the entire match, managed to score a clean pinfall victory over Edge, the Smackdown champion, and number 2 guy in the company. At Judgement Day, he gets the advantage on Orton, winds up for Sweet Chin Music, and then proceeds to just fall down. Orton doesn't get a pinfall, the referee stops the match.

There are not many people who get the preferential booking that HBK does.

And, why do you think Cena received such a monster push? It's because he was making the company a lot of money in the undercard, and they said, "Well, if he's making this in the undercard, let's see what he can do in the main-event". Make no mistake about it, if a guy makes the WWE money, he'll get pushed. It's not like they say "Oh, there's Shelton Benjamin. He's making more money than all but three people in the company, so let's job him out to everyone". The WWE has never worked that way, and will never work that way. It makes no sense.

They haven't had a bonafide pop-enveloping superstar for quite sometime that they've had to use. My rationale is that if something isn't working to perfection...fix it.

I'm pretty certain that the WWF did absolutely nothing to get Steve Austin the mega overness that he began to collect. It was just a phenomenon that occurred. Guys like Austin, Rock and Hogan aren't made, they just happen. The closest they've had in recent years to that kind of overness has been John Cena, back when he was on Smackdown. And, they've been using that.

 

[Kasey]

HBK was a heel? That's news to me. And, Cena does have mass appeal. Whether you show up to boo him, or show up to cheer him, you still show up. That's what his appeal is. Unlike other guys on the roster, almost everyone CARES about Cena, one way or the other.

Well, looking at the reversion of HBK to his old double-crossing heel persona on Raw by kicking Cena in the yapper looked like a forced sympathy turn to me (although I may be seeing things). The problem was that everyone cheered loudly for it. It was a colossal backfire and I'm willing to bet HBK knew it. Cena is so stale that people turned on him nearly completely. Yet the WWE front office nitwits keep trying to ram him down the throats of the American public as the unbeatable superhero when it hasn't worked since the lead up to his Wrestlemania 21 blunder.

While I disagree with you, what's your point? Even if the current roster is bad, then Cena is still worthy of being the champion. Not really sure what your point is here.

The point is that he's a consolation winner because the WWE has scouted new talent horribly most of the time in the last few years. And the good talent they do get is misused a majority of the time, anyway. Cena is where he is because he's a pretty boy who can do scripted promos well. But let me ask you? Who do you think would put on more legendary matches on a consistent basis? Cena? Or some of the guys they've passed over for him like Angle, Jericho or Christian for example? From where I sit they've put forth many more top-notch efforts in their careers to denote pushes than John did by doing his Marky Mark impression for a couple of years and pretending to be a pro wrestler when he wasn't doing that. This is why the crowd typically turned on him in the majority of angles he did against other top stars. If he was so worthy, the crowd would've been rooting for him. But they weren't.

And, why do you think Cena received such a monster push? It's because he was making the company a lot of money in the undercard, and they said, "Well, if he's making this in the undercard, let's see what he can do in the main-event". Make no mistake about it, if a guy makes the WWE money, he'll get pushed. It's not like they say "Oh, there's Shelton Benjamin. He's making more money than all but three people in the company, so let's job him out to everyone". The WWE has never worked that way, and will never work that way. It makes no sense.

Cena as the U.S. champion wasn't doing anything overly exciting. Even by F.U.'ing Big Slow at WM20 in the opener. He has a marketable face and mic ability that they love. He wasn't put on match-of-the-year candidates or anything like that. They were looking for their next crossover star ala' The Rock. The difference is that The Rock could carry a 20-odd minute match with a majority of different workers. Cena needs HBK or someone more competent to make a solid match that can actually go the distance. Shelton was receiving pretty damn good pops post-Raw debut in 2004 when he mixed it up with HHH. The difference was that they tried to market Shelton as a mic-jockey and he was greener than peas in that aspect. He's like the opposite of Cena, that way. He has all the athletic ability and potential in the world to wrestle phenomenal matches, but they hung him out to dry by the sink-or-swim approach. Cena had this happen, too. The difference was that his hype up to Wrestlemania 21 was awesome (even I loved the promos against JBL and remained hopeful). However, once he got to the finish line, I saw that he didn't have the tools necessary to CARRY a main event. He can be part of one, but not rule it like the heroes of past.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well, looking at the reversion of HBK to his old double-crossing heel persona on Raw by kicking Cena in the yapper looked like a forced sympathy turn to me (although I may be seeing things).

Well, he superkicked Cena, but everyone knew, including the WWE, that, at worst, it would turn HBK into a tweener. No one thought HBK was going into Detroit and get overwhelming boos against Cena.

Cena is where he is because he's a pretty boy who can do scripted promos well.

That's a little unfair considering he's put on some classic matches since being champion. I'll put his match with Umaga at Royal Rumble against anything the WWE has produced this year.

Or some of the guys they've passed over for him like Angle, Jericho or Christian for example? From where I sit they've put forth many more top-notch efforts in their careers to denote pushes than John

But, they had their pushes. The WWE knows what they can do. The only exception is Christian, and he's not much better in the ring than Cena.

Cena as the U.S. champion wasn't doing anything overly exciting. Even by F.U.'ing Big Slow at WM20 in the opener.

John Cena was MEGA over at Wrestlemania 21, and the months preceding it. The US Spinner belt was obviously so popular that they did the same thing with the WWE Title. I think you're underestimating Cena's moneymaking potential as the US Champ.

The difference is that The Rock could carry a 20-odd minute match with a majority of different workers. Cena needs HBK or someone more competent to make a solid match that can actually go the distance.

This is blatantly false. First, to put on a good match, you have to have two good workers in the ring. No man can carry a piss poor worker to a good match. Second of all, John Cena at ONS carried RVD to one of the best matches RVD has had in the WWE. Third, if you are going to say that Cena has been carried by every single wrestler he's been against since being champion, all I can say is that I didn't know the WWE had so many great wrestlers.

 

[DHP]

really? what moves other than the almighty karate chop of doom does the great kahli have?

XD

The Great Khali does'nt have anyother moves..then headbut,chop and chokbomb

Khali is to overpowered!!!!!

Since he came to the WWE Khali has only lost 2-3 times...all other compation has been beaten...EVERYBODY..even kane and Undertaker...
Khali is the only superstar to hit his oppnent "Once" to win a match with the almighty karate chop of DOOM!!...
Taker beating him in a Last man standing
match..GREAT!! but making him walkover eveybody else...that's CRAP!!!

Therefor i hope cena wins a ONS...then lose the titel to someone else...
not khali...anyone els...but ont khali...

 

[MaximumVoltage]

Cena vs. Khali is an abomination of a main event rivalry. Neither one of them are too good and the story is sub-par. Their matches, snooze fests. This is what passes for a main event rivalry these days? God I miss the Attitude Era.