[Official] John Cena Thread

[SSJPhenom]

Freedom 35 said something about Flair!

Now then, on to the topic at hand! Cena! When he was on SD and was a heel was he good? The answer is a very quick and simple hell no! Cena as a heel was even worse than he is now and you know how I feel about Cena now. That is a very odd thing in wrestling. It's usually a hell of alot easier to be a heel. You don't have to work your ass off for fans to love you. Cena sucked at that and he sucks now! I just compared him to Hart because even as a heel Cena couldn't match up to Hart as a heel. If you take heel Hart and heel Cena, who will be remembered most? That's a no brainer!

 

[Slyfox696]

Freedom 35 said something about Flair!

He said something about Flair's matches. Not interviews.

When he was on SD and was a heel was he good? The answer is a very quick and simple hell no! Cena as a heel was even worse than he is now and you know how I feel about Cena now.

Why do you feel that way? He was way over with the crowd.

If you take heel Hart and heel Cena, who will be remembered most? That's a no brainer!

In 15 years, present Bret Hart and John Cena, and ask who will be remembered most and see what answer you get.

 

[Shocky]

Bret Hart as a face was blah on the mic at best. His in ring stuff was as crisp as anything I have ever scene, but I dreaded Bret Hart Promos. His stuff in the old days when he would sit in front of a bad bluescreen with the hitman shades in the background wasn't bad. He was talking to the camera and not the crowd, so he was comfortable. Once the hitman, or hell, even Shawn Michaels in the mid 90's went in front of the crowd on a live mic, they weren't great guys.

I remember Michaels promos in 97 and they just went on and on about nothing important.

Cena as a heel was great on the mic, if you like the gimmick or not. His lyrics were fucking hilarious at times. It was only good when he was trying to be funny, when he came across as trying to be bad ass, then uhh, they were okay. This current incarnation of Cena has yet to put on a promo that is worth a damn in my opinion.

As Sly said though, the battle raps between Cage/Cena were amazing and the WWE really really dropped the ball on that feud. The had that match built up for what, 7 or 8 months?, and still did nothing with it. This was the moment I lost faith in the WWE when they threw Cage into a triple threat with Jericho and Cena, then shipped him off to Smackdown!. The WWE Really screwed that up in my opinion.

Anyways, Cena as a heel rapper was great on the mic, and if you don't think so, I really think that you are just being way to hard on the guy.

 

[SSJPhenom]

We can't say present Cena and Hart in 15 years and ask who will be remembered most. We know that in 15 years, Hart will still be remembered as one of the best. We can't say that about Cena at this time in his career.

The only time that Cena was ever over with the crowd on SD that I remember is when he began his initial face turn starting before Wrestlemania 20. That is the only time I remember him as a heel and being over with the crowd. Maybe I should go back and check it out, but I think that I am right.

I do have to say that some of his battle raps were hilarious. I hated the gimmick however, and I still think that has a heel he was shit. His in ring work was worse than it is now and he really never worked a crowd as good as the great heels in wrestling do!

Sly! You're taking a risk saying that Cena will be remembered as a bigger star in 15 years than Bret Hart! You must be a fortune teller! Cena is no where near this level and I think that if he keeps going like he is at this point in his career, it will take 15 years before he is even worthy of being mentioned as a great!

Shockmaster! I would stop being hard on Cena if he would stop being hard on the fans and do us all a favor. Drop the damn belt and go on vacation for awhile. If he done this, he could refresh his image and come back as a fresh face! He might actually be wanted by some people at that point. Not me however, I will take my hatred for Cena to the GRAVE!

Undertaker RULES by the way!

 

[Zante]

I dont like the comparison bout bret hart because bret may have done those moves but he does A LOT more. Cena swings his arms like a gorilla till the dreaded 6 moves, thats almost everything in his arsenal besides swinging and punching.

Simply put: Cena was forced fed to the fans and the people puked. I don't hate the guy but he gets push at the expense of great and potential talents, dont you agree? Its not always his in ring skills,its the way he is. Its always he gets beat up, eats his spinach and wins! Its not freakin popeye! I guess that why kid love him though...

 

[Freedom 35]

first off this is what I said

ric flair has never had a memorable moment in a match in his career and look where he ended up

then this was the response

every Flair interveiw was memorable. I can quote about ten of them. So don't say that he hasn't had memorable moments. That has to be the dumbest thing that I have ever heard!

i thin you misunderstood what i said I said he never had a defining moment in a match nothing with interviews he let the match quality define his career and thats how it should be. but theres another thread for this.

so now to John Cena

I agree a 100% though. Cena hasn't and doesn't deliever memorable promos.

thats my number one problem with John Cena his promos are repetetive and irritating but he does show potential on the mic. when John Cena talks its very smooth and doesnt stumble over his words its just too bad what hes saying is really annoying. I think when they let John Cena free from his garbage character kind of like they did with Austin when they let him be himself and transform from hollywood blonde to ass kickin' stone cold he will be seen as a good talker. make him more of a tweener character and his interviews will get much better

 

[SSJPhenom]

Ric Flair didn't have to have a defining match moment. He was good enough in the ring to let match quality define his career. Cena is no where near Flair in this aspect and there shouldn't even be a comparison made!

Cena has had big defining match moments and still can't get all the way over with the fans! Ric Flair in his prime would chew Cena up with style and profile, slap him in the figure four, make him tap, and then go out with Tully and the crew and find some women! "Every where I go, wooooo, they call me slick Ric and I'm the big daddy! WOOOOOOOO!"

 

[Freedom 35]

lets go over this again heres what i said

I said he never had a defining moment in a match nothing with interviews he let the match quality define his career and thats how it should be.

and this is what i get back

Ric Flair didn't have to have a defining match moment. He was good enough in the ring to let match quality define his career.

I think its time st stop this because it makes no sense. again on to John Cena

Ric Flair in his prime would chew Cena up with style and profile, slap him in the figure four, make him tap, and then go out with Tully and the crew and find some women! "Every where I go, wooooo, they call me slick Ric and I'm the big daddy! WOOOOOOOO!"

I will never disagree with you on that i think flair is the best of all time. and to compare cena to him may be unfair (at least as of now) but i still cant see why people dont see a bit of potential in John Cena. Yes i know his promos are repetetive but he draws alot of money and IMO opinion is a solid wrestler he does alot of things well in the ring and is not to blame for his match finishes and i think once he gets a new gimmick people will be angry that they didnt see the potential in him at first

 

[SSJPhenom]

I don't see why you say it makes no sense! I was agreeing that Flair didn't have a defining match moment in his career.

I can't see this so called potential that you see in Cena! All be it, I'm not really looking for it, but if he were as good as you and few others speculate, I shouldn't have to observe Cena, so to speak, to realize his potential. I can look at wrestlers like Shelton Benjamin and see his potential! I think he is the best athelete on Raw at this point in time. You don't have to look hard to see it. He shows it with nearly every match!

Cena doesn't have in ring abilities on the level of a champion of the caliber that the WWE thinks that he is! There are plenty of other people better in the ring and on the mic who deserve the title now! Like Randy Orton! (He's not better on the mic though!)

 

[Uncle Sam]

(He's not better on the mic though!)

Orton is better on the mic, in my opinion anyway. Cena is better in other areas admittedly, but people seem to think he has magical mic skills just because they don't want to be seen calling him completely crap but hate his in-ring product.

 

[Freedom 35]

I don't see why you say it makes no sense! I was agreeing that Flair didn't have a defining match moment in his career.

my bad i guess i misunderstood you.

I can't see this so called potential that you see in Cena!

when i talk about potential in him i don't mean potential to be unworldly good i mean he has the potential to be a solid performer. Like ive said in the past once the bookers change him from the underdog champion and let him become more of a tweener character he wont be seen as a completely shitty wrestler people will start to see what I see

 

[Slyfox696]

I will never disagree with you on that i think flair is the best of all time.

I would.

It's amazing how everyone wants to criticize Cena for having the same match routine all the time (even though he doesn't), and yet when Flair does the same spotty, illogical match routine every single night, with atrocious over-selling, not to mention forcing every single worker he wrestles against to adapt to HIS routine, Flair gets a free pass. Flair worked the same routine night after night, opponent after opponent, year after year. And yet, he's "the best of all time". Cena is claimed to have the same routine, and even though it is many times more logically and wrestling psychology sound, he's considered bad.

Amazing double standards.

Cena doesn't have in ring abilities on the level of a champion of the caliber that the WWE thinks that he is! There are plenty of other people better in the ring and on the mic who deserve the title now! Like Randy Orton! (He's not better on the mic though!)

What has Randy Orton ever done to show that he deserves being called better in the ring than John Cena? What has he ever done? What is this love affair with Randy Orton?

 

[Eternal Dragon]

What has Randy Orton ever done to show that he deserves being called better in the ring than John Cena? What has he ever done? What is this love affair with Randy Orton?

Oh Randy Orton has definitely done something (besides killing the TV in your signature)- he's challenged John Cena. And of course anyone that challenges John Cena is our savior since John Cena is the lowest of the lowest, the scum of the earth. You know why? He's talented, a good wrestler, is entertaining on the mic, is well liked by kids- by KIDS, the horror, the dreadful horror!!!! We just can't have him as champion any longer.

Hmm hope everyone noticed the sarcasm there. Btw I LOL'd at the love affair comment.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[ACTAFOOL]

i dont think randy orton is great in ring either, but i think every1 knows how awsome it will be to finally have a new champ!, and randy i think would be a great champ, he needs to work on his in ring, but hes great on the mic and i find his gimmick very entertaining, im very high on him just for how good he is outside the ring, in ring i think hes average at best, but his finisher really helpes him, its amazing when he hits it lol

 

[Uncle Sam]

Oh Randy Orton has definitely done something (besides killing the TV in your signature)- he's challenged John Cena. And of course anyone that challenges John Cena is our savior since John Cena is the lowest of the lowest, the scum of the earth. You know why? He's talented, a good wrestler, is entertaining on the mic, is well liked by kids- by KIDS, the horror, the dreadful horror!!!! We just can't have him as champion any longer.

Hmm hope everyone noticed the sarcasm there. Btw I LOL'd at the love affair comment.

Flames Out
Dragon

Dear God, I had no idea you could be that sarcastic. Why do you think everybody is so high on Edge? Not once, not twice but three times he dethroned Cena. The third time is when he speared him through a table at One Night Stand by the way. Still, if he's liked by kids and not teenagers and adults... then why should teenagers and adults like him? If that makes sense. I may well have completely missed your point. He has been champion for over two years now, I think people are entitled to say they are tired of it.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Dear God, I had no idea you could be that sarcastic. Why do you think everybody is so high on Edge? Not once, not twice but three times he dethroned Cena. The third time is when he speared him through a table at One Night Stand by the way. Still, if he's liked by kids and not teenagers and adults... then why should teenagers and adults like him? If that makes sense. I may well have completely missed your point. He has been champion for over two years now, I think people are entitled to say they are tired of it.

Pfft sarcastic is my middle name. Oh I know why everyone loves Edge (at least in the IWC), I love him too! He's actually my favorite wrestler, but isn't it a bit petty to like him just because he "dethorned" John Cena? People have been disliking (and that's the nice way to say it) Cena long before he had the title for just "two years." Didn't it actually start around Wrestlemania 22? I seem to remember everyone jumping on this huge bandwagon named "Cena sucks."

This lie that "Cena isn't a good champion," that he isn't a "competant wrestler" grew until it became the truth to most of the IWC. And why not? Sometimes if you see fiction long enough, it becomes fact. I think people just use this "Cena's been champion two years" excuse to continute hating him for some strange reason that I will never understand. No matter what he does, it seems like it can't be right. That's unfair isn't it?

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Freedom 35]

not to mention forcing every single worker he wrestles against to adapt to HIS routine, Flair gets a free pass.

First off Ric Flair would go out and wrestle hour long matches every single night and 9 times out of 10 he would carry the matches, correct me if im wrong but when someone carries a match its usually wrestled to there style.

Flair worked the same routine night after night, opponent after opponent, year after year. And yet, he's "the best of all time".

Flair would wrestle every night in non televised shows however this isnt like the current times where the house show matches are the same every night flair would go out and call a whole new fresh and exciting match every night against anyone they threw at him

Amazing double standards.

there is absolutely no double standard to compare John Cena to Ric Flair is absurd when John Cena starts calling quality hour long matches with anybody thrown at him you come and tell me then we can talk about double standards

Cena is claimed to have the same routine, and even though it is many times more logically and wrestling psychology sound, he's considered bad.

however after all thats been said i want you to know that i am unlike most people on this thread that think John Cena is a terrible wrestler i defenitely dont like John Cena but im entertained by watching him in the ring

 

[Uncle Sam]

Don't get me wrong Dragon, I'm a massive Edge (and Orton) fan myself, for reasons more than they're Anti-Cenas. I just think that's why people seem to want to usher in the Rated RKO Era. Personally, Cena doesn't get on my nerves that much. I'm just really tired of him as champion, he's been in the title picture for what could be described as an era. And it's very boring having the same person as champion for a long, long time. For me anyway.

 

[Lil Wes]

Damn I missed alot. The Cena marks have invaded.

Pfft sarcastic is my middle name. Oh I know why everyone loves Edge (at least in the IWC), I love him too! He's actually my favorite wrestler, but isn't it a bit petty to like him just because he "dethorned" John Cena? People have been disliking (and that's the nice way to say it) Cena long before he had the title for just "two years." Didn't it actually start around Wrestlemania 22? I seem to remember everyone jumping on this huge bandwagon named "Cena sucks."

I like Edge because Edge is everything you need to excel in the business. He's IMO the top guy in WWE . When it comes to putting all the basics together. I could care less if Edge hadn't drethroned Cena. I would still love him for everything he's accomplished and his talents. The guy is great.

As for Cena hating starting at Mania 22. No I've always thought he sucked when it comes to in ring skill. I've been on the Cena sucks bandwagon since WM 20.

This lie that "Cena isn't a good champion," that he isn't a "competant wrestler" grew until it became the truth to most of the IWC. And why not? Sometimes if you see fiction long enough, it becomes fact. I think people just use this "Cena's been champion two years" excuse to continute hating him for some strange reason that I will never understand. No matter what he does, it seems like it can't be right. That's unfair isn't it?

They hate him for undesvering long title reigns. The guy is a bore with his repetative moveset and routines on both the mic and in the ring. He's shit on the mic these days. Last year I actually payed attention to what he had to say. Now I can't because I've already heard it the week before. Cena is booked shitty and he wrestles shitty IMO. I don't care what Cena marks say I think Cena just plain sucks. I'm am also fucking sick of his long reigns. It is just getting out of hand. Jesus Christ, enough is enough.

Cena was right in his match with HBK. HBK is a wrestling god. Cena should take notes while he's sitting back watching the greatness of Mr.Kennedy sometime next year.

 

[Freedom 35]

I like Edge because Edge is everything you need to excel in the business. He's IMO the top guy in WWE . When it comes to putting all the basics together. I could care less if Edge hadn't drethroned Cena. I would still love him for everything he's accomplished and his talents. The guy is great.

see I don't know where people are going with the theory that people like wrestlers because they challenged or beat John Cena this is the funniest thing i have ever heard i literally laughed when i saw this. people like Edge because hes IMO the best character/wrestler the WWE has right now.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Freedom 35! I loved everything that you said about Flair! That is one of the best responses that I have ever heard! You are completely and utterly correct! Flair would wrestle anyone, anywhere, and anytime and every match was better than this shit that people seem to like out of Cena. I would take Flair/Rhodes or Flair/Steamboat any day of the week than Cena/HBK!

I have to disagree, however about your Cena remark at the end! I hate him! I mention time after time why I hate him, so why?

I just want to respond to the people who seem to think that Orton isn't good in the ring! The standing dropkicks, the quick powerslams, that innovative neckbreaker, the headlock that he seems to utilize alot, and, my all time favorite, running punt to the head! These moves, collectively, are a much better move set then, a running shoulder block, an occasional leg drop off the top (that looks horrible every time he does it), a back body drop, the 5 knuckle shuffle (wouldn't be suprised if this starts to defeat people like the people's elbow), and the ever horrible STFU!

Randy Orton, in my opinion, is a great heel and can perform at or above Cena's level! If you can't see that, then, YOU CAN'T SEE ORTON!

 

[Freedom 35]

I have to disagree, however about your Cena remark at the end! I hate him! I mention time after time why I hate him, so why?

when i say im entertained by cena in the ring i usually mean it draws me to the TV because im interested in the outcome it usually is because im hoping for him to lose but i think this long title reign has drawn some cena haters to the Tv because there so interested in when hes gonna lose

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Damn I missed alot. The Cena marks have invaded.

I really hate the word "mark." For that matter I hate the word "smark" too, just look at my sig. Can't we just be wrestling fans having a debate?

As for Cena hating starting at Mania 22. No I've always thought he sucked when it comes to in ring skill. I've been on the Cena sucks bandwagon since WM 20.

Are you implying that Cena has never had a good match? At WM 20 Cena was still on SD, and he had a lot of great matches there. To completely discard every single match he had there isn't right. And, if you're actually admitting to be on the bandwagon- well that isn't a good thing. Usually it means you hate Cena because others do, not because Cena sucks.

They hate him for undesvering long title reigns. The guy is a bore with his repetative moveset and routines on both the mic and in the ring. He's shit on the mic these days. Last year I actually payed attention to what he had to say. Now I can't because I've already heard it the week before. Cena is booked shitty and he wrestles shitty IMO. I don't care what Cena marks say I think Cena just plain sucks. I'm am also fucking sick of his long reigns. It is just getting out of hand. Jesus Christ, enough is enough.

Cena was right in his match with HBK. HBK is a wrestling god. Cena should take notes while he's sitting back watching the greatness of Mr.Kennedy sometime next year.

Who are you to say that Cena doesn't deserve the long title reigns? The guy has been working his ass off every single week for us, and yet he doesn't deserve a long title reign?

Every single wrestler in the WWE has a repetitive move set. That isn't a bad thing. That is why they're moves are called signature moves. They are known for using them over and over again. It doesn't matter if it's HBK or John Cena or Shelton Benjamin or Cody Rhodes or MVP, etc, etc. They all have moves that they repeat in every match.

If you aren't paying attention to what John Cena is saying in his promos then you can't judge them. It's like judging a book before reading it.

I've never seen Cena wrestle "shitty." Sure he's had his bad matches, but he's also had his good matches, just like with every other wrestler. For some reason it's only the bad that people can see in Cena and his matches.

And on a side note, while I am a Kennedy fan- what the hell has he done to put him above Cena?

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[morganlaliberte]

I think Cena will win this sunday at Summerslam. Ya, Randy Orton's good, but I think Cena's better. Even though Cena got RKOed several times and if Cena loses... you can't blame him... anyway Cena's been WWE champ for really long... so we'll see how it goes.... go Cena!

 

[Lil Wes]

I really hate the word "mark." For that matter I hate the word "smark" too, just look at my sig. Can't we just be wrestling fans having a debate?

Yes thats what we are doing. I'm a proud Y2J,Edge,MVP and HBK mark.

Your a smark because your here.

Are you implying that Cena has never had a good match? At WM 20 Cena was still on SD, and he had a lot of great matches there. To completely discard every single match he had there isn't right. And, if you're actually admitting to be on the bandwagon- well that isn't a good thing. Usually it means you hate Cena because others do, not because Cena sucks.

Wrong,I'm not the only one to hate Cena. I don't hate Cena because others do. You sound like Sly. I have already discussed why I hate John Cena. Cena has a good match here and there is it consistent? NO! Can he carry shit opponents to good matches? NO! Is he god's gift to a microphone? NO! Has his character,Title reign,promos all gotten stale? YES! Does he have a limited moveset with the same overcoming all odds routinely 5 moved wonder? YES!

Theres like 5. That's plenty. He draws. Thats all that's good about him. I'm sick of the bastard.

Who are you to say that Cena doesn't deserve the long title reigns? The guy has been working his ass off every single week for us, and yet he doesn't deserve a long title reign?

LOL,His in ring skill is laughable. So he must not be working very hard. Cena bust his ass. I'll give him that but so does everyone else in the business.You must have work ethic to make it in Pro Wrestling.

Once again I hate the guy I see on TV. The character not the man. Damn people need to start thinking the diffrences between in the ring and out. Jesus.

Every single wrestler in the WWE has a repetitive move set. That isn't a bad thing. That is why they're moves are called signature moves. They are known for using them over and over again. It doesn't matter if it's HBK or John Cena or Shelton Benjamin or Cody Rhodes or MVP, etc, etc. They all have moves that they repeat in every match.

Bullshit. Cena does the same routines weekly and monthly. Been over this and i'm not again. Cody Rhodes... Why is he even in the same convo as Benjamin and MVP?. Shelton and MVP are repetative....HAHAHAHA. I can't predict what will happen next in their matches while with Cena's I can.

You have to be able to carry a match with different moves from beginning to mid match to the end when the signatures come. Cena does not.

If you aren't paying attention to what John Cena is saying in his promos then you can't judge them. It's like judging a book before reading it.

Why pay attention when I just heard it the week before or the night after the previous PPV. I listen to his promos and they are boring IMO. People like different things. Mr Sam has been saying that since I was here last month. Good god. People like Hogan and superman gods other likes Austin and title changes. It's what you like and don't like. I like HBK and dislike John Cena. Why? Done said.

I've never seen Cena wrestle "shitty." Sure he's had his bad matches, but he's also had his good matches, just like with every other wrestler. For some reason it's only the bad that people can see in Cena and his matches.

When your WWE Champion. The best you could do for viewers and the company is be consistent. Cena is not.

And on a side note, while I am a Kennedy fan- what the hell has he done to put him above Cena?

Debut RAW promo. Watch it. The guys has a bright future ahead of him. Watch the Taker and Boretista fueds. Watch for the remainder of the year and next well...until Monday Night Trips returns...*yawn*