[Official] John Cena Thread

[Shadowmancer]

Can we get off of this Biggest seller of Merchandise because if the majority of the Shit they sell on WWE.com is Cena merchandise then of course Cena is going to have the most Merchandise sold. And there are reportss that the WWE have taken stuff off of there if they were outselling cena stuff, Edge and Kennedy t-shirts come to mind. Im going to put this to you drop wrestlemania out of the equation this year. Im pretty sure so far the number of PPV buys this year have gone down from last year based on preliminary results for the buys (these are around about right for the most part) so it is as Kasey said Stagnation it is hovering around the same place, Cena good for a placeholder champ at the moment but by Wrestlemania next year I would have set Kennedy up to take the position from Cena.

As for classic matches, Cena has had none, good matches yes, entertaining matches most definately, but Classic matches, nope. Stone Cold Vs. Bret Hart submission match is a classic, Triple H Vs. The Rock Iron Man match classic. Shawn Michaels Vs. Kurt Angle (pick any of the three) Classic matches. While Cena has had his share of good matches there aren't any classics. don't tell me Umaga Vs. Cena last man standing was a classic cause it isn't, it is just a good match.

Actually saying he can't wrestle is not a false reason it is a valid point, Cena doesn't do what a face champion usually does go for the moves that give consistent pops over the course of the match, they only pops he gets is for the five to six moves of Doom. Cena does have a more restricted move set than when he was a heel. and the WWE Heel restrictions are fairly restrictive for moves these days, so in theory if they turn him heel his move set will be restricted to stomps and Punches. So he doesn't have room to go heel meaning he himself stagnates as champ even if they turn him, but I have said before that Cena is one of those guys that should get short title reigns as a face and long ones as a Heel. because he is better as a chaser of the gold rather than a holder of it in terms of character.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

one of the best smack talkers in the business today?! lol that is absoloutaly laughable, so yea you are mistaken I would say that you need look no further than 2 avatars on this page to find to better smack talkers- Orton, and the instant classic himself christian Cage. Other people you could consider better (exclusively to WWE) are of course Vince, Edge, Kennedy, Foley (if you can call him a current guy but hes wrestling at Vengence so u kno), HHH, HBK etc etc Cena is not a above par smack talker like some people insist he is. Seems to me really like people are just puposely looking for excuses to like him. All this crap about popularity is bullshit as well, if it was all about who the fans cheer for then the Hardy's would be main eventers, if it was all about merchandise then why pull heels mechandise when it outsells Cena's? Face it only reason cena is on top is because he was in the right place at the right time and because he kisses vince's arse. The only people by the looks with more influence in direction than Cena are HHH, and HBK.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Yeah my Avatar is David Flair, the son of the Nature Boy, not Randy Orton. But you are right above average mic skills, he isn't funny anymore but when he did five questions I tuned in because it was funny, Cena did that shoot style, he should do something similar for his promos in the ring. It wouldn't be a bad thing if they got Cena the Brooklyn Brawler as a manager this would make him interesting again unlike this shit that he says week in and week out. "The Champ is Here" your neither Muhammad Ali nor Will Smith you shouldn't be stealing their lines there. "If you want some come get some" isn't that what everyone says if they are a fighting champ as they are trying to portray Cena as.

Cena became boring character wise quite early in his reign as champ, so they decided to modify his gimmick while he was champ, that is the first time that has ever happened while the guy held the title. they made him two dimensional, whoop-de-fucking-doo Cena is a crap champ because the title defines him rather than the other way around. which is how a success should be measured, you may argue the Triple H case, who was there on RAW that could carry that Brand other than Triple H at the time (that hadn't been buried by creative at the time of the WHCs time on RAW), there was noone. but Triple H defined the Title rather than the Title defining him, whereas Cena actually needs the title to use one of "his" catchphrases, doesn't that seem a bit forced to you.

 

[Shocky]

On pay per view buyrates.

I think that has really nothing to do with Cena, and more of Smackdown as a whole losing a big part of it's audience. Cena's move to Raw coincided with Smackdown's move to Friday Night, so the drop in Smackdown Pay Per View buys probably is more reflective of the drop in audience then the loss of Cena.

I won't include the four major pay per views, because it's multi brand

My judgment isn't scientific on these things, just an opinion.

With Some of the Raw pay per views.
Backlash
2005: .81 Triple H vs. Batista
2006: .55 Triple H vs. John Cena vs. Edge

This one kind of shocked me, and I have no real explanation for it. You kinda forget how hot the destruction of Evolution Angle was, but still, you would figure 06 would be a little higher then that.

Unforgiven
2005: .56 John Cena vs. Kurt Angle
2006. .77 John Cena vs. Edge

Unforgiven 2005 was just a bad card. I think this boost in buy rate is more in thanks to a). Hell in the Cell, and b). T.L.C. Fans know what they are going to get in those matches, and I think it had little to do with Cena being in one of those.

Armageddon
2005: .73 Undertaker vs. Randy Orton
2006: .60 John Cena and Batista vs. Booker and Finlay

This is going more with what I feel, gimmick Matches sell, not the wrestlers. Maybe in the past, but not now. Hell in the Cell with Orton and Taker out draws two champions in a tag team match.

Vengeance
2005: .92 Batista vs. Triple H
2006: .84 DX vs. Spirit Squad

Again, another Hell in the Cell Match, and you have a higher buy rate in 2005. Even with the return of DX, they couldn't out draw 2005. This has little to nothing to do with Cena, because he was on the mid card.

NYR:
2005 0.68
2006 0.85
2007 0.55

That's all you need to see right there. Low buy rate the first year, because it's a new pay per view. For a first year pay per view, .68 is very impressive though, no thanks to the Elimination Chamber. 2006, yet again another Elimination Chamber. 2007 Reality hits and Cena vs. Umaga doesn't draw the fans to buy it. No Gimmick Matches, no Buys.

Cyber Sunday
2005 .55
2006 .57

Little Change in this, even with the move to Sunday Night. I'm guessing this one gets the ax when they drop to 14 pay per views.

One Night Stand
2005 .81 Dudleys vs. Tommy Dreamer and Sandman
2006 .76 RVD vs. John Cena

People smelled bullshit with the 2nd pay per view right away, and I'll be interested to see how the 3rd ONS buy rate does with all gimmick matches. Face, ECW ONS one brought the ECW fans out, and they bought it. Little to no WWE interaction in this pay per view satisfied the ECW faithful. ECW ONS II, WWE puts one of it's wrestlers in every match, to gain buy rates, yup that worked. Even with Cena in the main event, the buy rate goes down. Probably less to do with Cena, and more to do with the WWE trying to fix something that wasn't broken.

So in my opinion, Cena has probably very little to nothing to do with buy rates for pay per views. People are going to watch the big four pay per views regardless of whats on them, they are traditional. The Gimmick Matches bump the hell out of nontraditional pay per views, and this points to that fact.

 

[Slyfox696]

Can we get off of this Biggest seller of Merchandise because if the majority of the Shit they sell on WWE.com is Cena merchandise then of course Cena is going to have the most Merchandise sold.

Why do you think there is more Cena merchandise than other merchandise? It is because there is a higher demand for Cena merchandise than for any other. The very fact that he has more items available should tell you that he is in higher demand, merchandise wise.

All this crap about popularity is bullshit as well, if it was all about who the fans cheer for then the Hardy's would be main eventers,

Who said that? I've simply said he's the biggest draw, which means that more people pay to see him than anyone else.

if it was all about merchandise then why pull heels mechandise when it outsells Cena's?

I have yet to see this story that people keep citing. Could someone please show me where this happened? I looked in an old archive thread, through about 71 pages. I didn't feel like looking any more. So, someone else find this for me.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Why do you think there is more Cena merchandise than other merchandise? It is because there is a higher demand for Cena merchandise than for any other. The very fact that he has more items available should tell you that he is in higher demand, merchandise wise.

Umm WWE decide what mech is put out, they decide the level and the type of Merchandise, not the fans, while I do know basic economic theory and that goes against it to a degree, but it runs on the idea of (using an example) if you have a fruit stand and if the majority of your products are apples than apples are going to sell the most. same thing here the more Cena merch the most likely it is going to be bought. Do you know of anyway to look at the buyrates of merch cause I don't but basing this off of Cena's core fanbase (I did say core) of kids with their mothers as well, the majority of the products are going to be bought by parents(mothers in particular) for their children, by Cena being the 2 dimensional baby face he is the parents are most likely going to buy Cena shirts for their kids. this is based off of research that I read somewhere about the disposable incomes parents have and what they use to buy stuff for their children. Not specifing Wrestling but other stuff but it translates over to Merchandise sales for WWE. So the actual amount of Merchandise and stuff is absolute bullcrap to bring up, The actual stuff about Edge and Kennedy's merch being pulled is from about the end of last year real early beginning of this year. The true test of whether Cena is the biggest Draw based on the Merchandise is to stock Cena stuff to a level comparable to other main eventers such as Edge, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels and others, I doubt it would sell as much, because it is padding the numbers by having more of one type more buys. simple argument based in economic theory.

 

[TheRealLionheart089]

If John Cena can't wrestle, he wouldn't have made it out of wrestling training, wouldn't have made it out of UPW, wouldn't have made it out of OVW and to the WWE....


Think About It.

 

[Slyfox696]

Umm WWE decide what mech is put out, they decide the level and the type of Merchandise, not the fans, while I do know basic economic theory and that goes against it to a degree, but it runs on the idea of (using an example) if you have a fruit stand and if the majority of your products are apples than apples are going to sell the most. same thing here the more Cena merch the most likely it is going to be bought. Do you know of anyway to look at the buyrates of merch cause I don't but basing this off of Cena's core fanbase (I did say core) of kids with their mothers as well, the majority of the products are going to be bought by parents(mothers in particular) for their children, by Cena being the 2 dimensional baby face he is the parents are most likely going to buy Cena shirts for their kids. this is based off of research that I read somewhere about the disposable incomes parents have and what they use to buy stuff for their children. Not specifing Wrestling but other stuff but it translates over to Merchandise sales for WWE. So the actual amount of Merchandise and stuff is absolute bullcrap to bring up, The actual stuff about Edge and Kennedy's merch being pulled is from about the end of last year real early beginning of this year. The true test of whether Cena is the biggest Draw based on the Merchandise is to stock Cena stuff to a level comparable to other main eventers such as Edge, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels and others, I doubt it would sell as much, because it is padding the numbers by having more of one type more buys. simple argument based in economic theory.

I don't know where you find particular breakdowns per wrestler for merchandising, but you can find income from merchandising from the Corporate WWE page. I did know someone who knew where to get merch breakdowns per, but I haven't seen him online in a while, and don't know where he got it from.

And, what you are trying to tell me is that the WWE cares more about people buying what they want people to buy, to put over their top champion at the moment, than they do about offering the type of merchandise that is going to sell the most, regardless of who it is.

Maybe I don't understand (and I'm gonna be gone for the weekend, so feel free to take your time responding) but it seems that you are saying the WWE doesn't care as much about making the greatest profit as it does trying to get one arbitrary person over. I'm not so certain I agree with that theory.

I'm much more inclined to go with the theory (whether it's related to John Cena or not) that the WWE is going to follow the basic economic principle of supply and demand. If there is a demand for a type of merchandise, than the WWE, in order to make the highest profits, is going to supply more of it.

And, could you please cite that article? I've looked for it, and could not find it. This is the only wrestling forum I've seen anyone mention it, and since you've been here longer than I, it'll probably be easier for you to find.

 

[pookie]

oh man bro you really need to drop this argument... know what your points are whether they are validated or not... stop repeating yourself... you want to see success for John Cena just look at this thread... No John Cena is not the best wrestler by any means... He isnt even great on the mic... hes good... the rock was great... But John Cena is by far the most controversial in this business... Thats why you spend your time thinking of arguments to defend his image... If your looking to win in this argument your not going to... Your just going to get pissed off and say something that wont hurt anyone in the least... If anything you should go and make a "Bitch and Moan" thread where you and other fellow whiners can relate to one another...

 

[hbk&triple h]

I do think John Cena is very controversial but not the greatest.I think the most controversial is Bret Hart even though the Screwjob happened almost ten years ago.It still raises an argument to this day and is very fun and interesting to talk about.

And this regards what Shockie posted.Slyfox this is exactly what I have been getting at the whole time.John sells seats when there is something special or added to it.As you can see look how bad New Years Revolution did.Gimmick matches sell.So as for cena being a big draw I think its kind of crap.Ill give you merchandise has gone up but anyone that is put on top will probably get the most merchandise bought.Cena is nothing without the gimmick matches.
Without them people are just going to not buy the ppv because they don't want to pay for a poor main event.

 

[pettit]

will some1 answer this???

if cena loses at vengence and doesnt have the title 4 a year or so what would u think???

would use gain respect 4 him, or not hate him as much?

 

[The Champ]

oh man bro you really need to drop this argument...

No, actually, he doesn't, because his argument is quite valid, actually.

No John Cena is not the best wrestler by any means...

Yes, actually, John Cena is a very good wrestler. He is a great storyteller and is constrantly improving his moveset. He has had many great matches during and before his run with the title, and he knows how to get the fans excited in his matches. The guy is easily one of the best wrestlers in the WWE today.

He isnt even great on the mic...

WWE Creative gives him boring, repetitive promos to deliver, yet he delivers them with as much passion and geniune emotion as he possibly can. We have all seen what Cena is capable of when he can write his own material, going back to his rapper gimmick in 2003.

the rock was great...

People really need to stop living in the past and realize that The Rock isn't coming back. Yes, The Rock was great, but so is Cena, and I believe that when it's all said and done, he will be mentioned among the all-time greats.

But John Cena is by far the most controversial in this business...

I view that as a good thing. Some superstars don't even get a reaction. Cena always gets a reaction, whether it be positive or negative.

Thats why you spend your time thinking of arguments to defend his image... If your looking to win in this argument your not going to... Your just going to get pissed off and say something that wont hurt anyone in the least... If anything you should go and make a "Bitch and Moan" thread where you and other fellow whiners can relate to one another...

I'm not trying to "win," and I don't think Slyfox is, either. I'm just trying to make some of you realize that John Cena is nowhere near as bad as you all think he is.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

How dare you compare the greatest smacktalker of all time to John Cena. Cena has absoloutaly nothing that makes him stand out, apart from been possibly the most annoying WWE champion of all time. Why is he a good wrestler? what is it that he has done makes him a good wrestler? Im not in the edge of my seat for any of his matches, in fact 99% of his matches im close to falling to sleep, and often I wont watch a match that has Cena in at all. Cena fans chat absoloute shit about him been some kind of Wrestling god, when actualy hes a stale boring repeatitive wrestler. I am actualy too getting bored of this argument but it seems tio be the only place where new posts are getting put up in daily...

 

[robwylde90]

Cena has nevr had a "great" match in his puff , some have been more bearable but really there all pretty much identical, anyway to go on with what capt charisma said, i also usually turn raw off about 20 mins early so i dont have to watch his boring act, the only time iv watched the main event of raw in the past few eeks was orton and booker against the superman combo. when randy got the win over lashley i was genuinely suprised by raw for the second time in two weeks, there on a bit a roll now.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Cena has nevr had a "great" match in his puff ,

vs. Edge (Numerous)
vs. Umaga Last Man Standing (Rumble)
vs. HBK (Numerous)
vs. HHH (Numerous)
vs. JBL I Quit (J.D.)

Think before you type. To say he's never had a good match is just stupid. He's had plenty, that's not what this thread is really about.

 

[hbk&triple h]

No, actually, he doesn't, because his argument is quite valid, actually.

Yes, actually, John Cena is a very good wrestler. He is a great storyteller and is constrantly improving his moveset. He has had many great matches during and before his run with the title, and he knows how to get the fans excited in his matches. The guy is easily one of the best wrestlers in the WWE today.

WWE Creative gives him boring, repetitive promos to deliver, yet he delivers them with as much passion and geniune emotion as he possibly can. We have all seen what Cena is capable of when he can write his own material, going back to his rapper gimmick in 2003.

People really need to stop living in the past and realize that The Rock isn't coming back. Yes, The Rock was great, but so is Cena, and I believe that when it's all said and done, he will be mentioned among the all-time greats.
I view that as a good thing. Some superstars don't even get a reaction. Cena always gets a reaction, whether it be positive or negative.

I'm not trying to "win," and I don't think Slyfox is, either. I'm just trying to make some of you realize that John Cena is nowhere near as bad as you all think he is.

John Cena is not a good wrestler.He is ok at best and he is only good when put against a good worker.If he was a good wrestler he would have sold the damn leg working at Wreslemania 23.

I never thought John was that great on the mic.He has done some funny things before but I never thought he was great.

See I don't get why people think John Cena will be mentioned with the all time greats.What big things we he be remembered for except being shoved down are throats.What big things has he done to make us remember how great he was.He isn't a great wrestler, he is ok on the mic, has had some good matches and people think he will be one of the all time greats.

 

[Don Killuminati]

Yes, actually, John Cena is a very good wrestler. He is a great storyteller and is constrantly improving his moveset. He has had many great matches during and before his run with the title, and he knows how to get the fans excited in his matches. The guy is easily one of the best wrestlers in the WWE today.

How can you say he's one of the best in WWE today? I mean he's had some good matches but will I remember them in 20 years as a classic? NO! If he was a great wrestler when he faces someone that isn't good in the ring it could still be a good match. I've never seen Cena do that. All of his good matches come against HBK, HHH, Edge, JBL, and other good wrestlers. And in those matches the other guy has carried him.

I know people like to say his match with Umaga means he's great. One good match without being carried doesn't make you anywhere near great. And keep in mind were talking about 10 matches hes had that have even been classified as "good." Most of his matches on Raw are 5 minutes or a tag match where he's in for 5 minutes. And they tend to be boring matches that I could care less about.

People just like Cena I think because he's shoved down our throats so much that people think "Wow ishould like this guy because hes had the title for the the past 2 years with 2 short breaks. This is his 3rd reign while it feels like it's been one long one. And I wouldn't be suprised if he has it till Wrestlemania 24 at least. Him being on top for this long has just gotten incredibly old. This guy will probably end up with 8 reigns or something with just 7 people holding it for a month to break it up. I'm gonna look back at Cena and think of him as the guy who held the belt for 10 years.

He might be considered ok if he was a midcarder but this guys the top of the company! He should be alot better then he is. He just relies on he 5 move of death to make his match look good anyway. And notice all of his good matches he wins! It's not like he loses the belt in a great match hes lost it in a MITB and Edge interfering which makes it look like Cena refuses to lose the belt cleanly. He rarely loses a random match cleanly anymore. It's just gotten old as hell.

You'll say he has more moves then his 5 moves of death but their in EVERY match and let me tell you something...THEY ALL SUCK!!!! Shoulder Block? Lame as hell just what the name implies its just boring. Clothesline? Yeah that's a great big move. I think that's the third move you learn as a wrestler while for him it's one of his big spots. 5 Knuckle Shuffle? It's a punch... awesome. FU? The most original but still not that great. STFU? Anyone can do a STF but for him its some godly move. Most of the rest of his matches involve rest holds or other basic moves. He just isn't good and that's the way it is.

 

[pookie]

Hey meathead when I said that John Cena is controversial I meant it as a good thing... So for "The Champ" you will not win this argument and yes he needs to drop this argument for the sake of both of your self esteems... Eventually your going to say the wrong thing and someone on here is going to make you look retarted... This thread is not about how much he sells... Hes good at best thats it... Not any worse and not any better... Just good and happened to be at the right place at the right time...

 

[robwylde90]

vs. Edge (Numerous)
vs. Umaga Last Man Standing (Rumble)
vs. HBK (Numerous)
vs. HHH (Numerous)
vs. JBL I Quit (J.D.)

Think before you type. To say he's never had a good match is just stupid. He's had plenty, that's not what this thread is really about.

I actually said hes never had a GREAT match , whcih i stand by , those matches where ok but i can still think of hundreds of other matches id rather watch at any time.

 

[Slyfox696]

oh man bro you really need to drop this argument... know what your points are whether they are validated or not... stop repeating yourself... you want to see success for John Cena just look at this thread... No John Cena is not the best wrestler by any means... He isnt even great on the mic... hes good... the rock was great... But John Cena is by far the most controversial in this business... Thats why you spend your time thinking of arguments to defend his image... If your looking to win in this argument your not going to... Your just going to get pissed off and say something that wont hurt anyone in the least... If anything you should go and make a "Bitch and Moan" thread where you and other fellow whiners can relate to one another...

I would love to respond to this, but I would love even more for you to actually have a point. Maybe we'll find one later on.

will some1 answer this???

if cena loses at vengence and doesnt have the title 4 a year or so what would u think???

would use gain respect 4 him, or not hate him as much?

It would depend on what he did in that year without the title, and probably what the company as a whole did when he did not have the title.

Why is he a good wrestler? what is it that he has done makes him a good wrestler?

What is it that makes anyone a good wrestler? What is the list of criteria that makes a good professional wrestler?

I've explained to you many times why Cena is a good professional wrestler.

I am actualy too getting bored of this argument but it seems tio be the only place where new posts are getting put up in daily...

This is because Cena is a very interesting person, who seems to have a polarizing effect on many people.

If he was a good wrestler he would have sold the damn leg working at Wreslemania 23.

If Shawn Michaels was a good wrestler, he wouldn't no sell an entire match with his nip-up and "5 moves of Doom". If Hogan was a good wrestler, he wouldn't no sell an entire match when he "Hulks Up".

Of course, if you know anything about me, you know that I think both of them are good wrestlers, and you'll realize that my comment was sarcastic. One instance of no-selling does not make for a bad wrestler. If it did, then The Undertaker is the worst wrestler in history.

See I don't get why people think John Cena will be mentioned with the all time greats.What big things we he be remembered for except being shoved down are throats.

Why not? It worked for Triple H. *shrugs*

All of his good matches come against HBK, HHH, Edge, JBL, and other good wrestlers. And in those matches the other guy has carried him.

Sorry, I'd love to comment, but I'm too busy laughing about the fact that you called JBL a "good wrestler".

Most of his matches on Raw are 5 minutes or a tag match where he's in for 5 minutes. And they tend to be boring matches that I could care less about.

This is true of almost every match on Raw throughout it's entire history.

He rarely loses a random match cleanly anymore.

April 23rd vs. Shawn Michaels. That is 2 months ago. You're welcome.

You'll say he has more moves then his 5 moves of death but their in EVERY match

So were Bret Harts, and so are Shawn Michaels. What's your point really?

Eventually your going to say the wrong thing

I've been doing it since last Summerslam, and that's yet to happen. Believe me, there are almost zero arguments that I haven't heard and responded to about Cena.

and someone on here is going to make you look retarted

Well, considering as many times as I've done that to others, I guess I have it coming. Kidding.


Oh, and you spelled "******ed" wrong. I think they call that "irony".

 

[Don Killuminati]

April 23rd vs. Shawn Michaels. That is 2 months ago. You're welcome.

Well that's 1 time. But your gonna have to go research alot to find anymore. He really doesn't lose cleanly and I believe that match he lost against Michaels was the first in like 2 years.

So were Bret Harts, and so are Shawn Michaels. What's your point really?

Hart and Michaels could have a match without them and it could still be good. Cena without his 5 moves of death he is just a bad wrestler and needs those moves to look good.

 

[hbk&triple h]

Why not? It worked for Triple H. *shrugs*

I actually think Triple H is amazing in the ring.He was shoved down are throats a lot as well but at least he did something good with the title.

 

[robwylde90]

Slyfox how about you stop trying to make peoples arguments look less legitimate by trying to make it seem absolutely ridiculous or playing on their typing errors? "2 months ago , your welcome", "i think thats called irony" and shit like that . you clearly know that the argument for cena losing cleanly is epitimised by the fact that when he lost cleanly two months ago was his first clean loss in quite some time , but you try and make the poster look stupid by making it seem as if they where saying it has been months since he last lost cleanly, and really if your best argument against someone is making fun of the fact that they spelled "******ed" as "retarted" by accident, your clutching at straws bro.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well that's 1 time. But your gonna have to go research alot to find anymore. He really doesn't lose cleanly and I believe that match he lost against Michaels was the first in like 2 years.

And, other than his match with Cena, when was the last time HBK lost cleanly? Other than his match with Cena, when was the last time HHH lost cleanly as a face? When was the last time The Undertaker lost cleanly?

The main-event faces don't lose cleanly, they never have. You are holding something against Cena that every other face does in the main-event of the WWE.

Hart and Michaels could have a match without them and it could still be good. Cena without his 5 moves of death he is just a bad wrestler and needs those moves to look good.

Name me all the great singles matches Bret Hart had without the 5 Moves of Doom.

I actually think Triple H is amazing in the ring.He was shoved down are throats a lot as well but at least he did something good with the title.

And, in 5-10 years, people will be saying the same thing about John Cena. I would put money on it.

Slyfox how about you stop trying to make peoples arguments look less legitimate by trying to make it seem absolutely ridiculous or playing on their typing errors? "2 months ago , your welcome", "i think thats called irony" and shit like that .

When someone says that he hasn't lost cleanly in forever, I feel compelled to correct him. I'm sure he would thank me for helping him not say incorrect things in the future.

you clearly know that the argument for cena losing cleanly is epitimised by the fact that when he lost cleanly two months ago was his first clean loss in quite some time

I also clearly know that almost none of the main-event faces in the WWE lose cleanly, and to bash Cena for the same treatment that guys like HBK, HHH, and Undertaker get is ridiculous.

but you try and make the poster look stupid by making it seem as if they where saying it has been months since he last lost cleanly, and really if your best argument against someone is making fun of the fact that they spelled "******ed" as "retarted" by accident, your clutching at straws bro.

You should try actually reading the entire thread. For example, the "******ed" comment had absolutely nothing to do with Cena. His comment was that someone was going to come along and make me look ******ed. What kind of argument is that? It's not. It has nothing to do with anything, other than to express the fact that he cannot prove me wrong, and so he waits for some hypothetical person to come along and prove me wrong. What I said was not a personal attack on him, was just noting the irony of his statement. So, until you actually read and comprehend entire threads, and understand what is going on throughout, please do not make baseless comments like you did here again.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well that's 1 time. But your gonna have to go research alot to find anymore. He really doesn't lose cleanly and I believe that match he lost against Michaels was the first in like 2 years.

And, other than his match with Cena, when was the last time HBK lost cleanly? Other than his match with Cena, when was the last time HHH lost cleanly as a face? When was the last time The Undertaker lost cleanly?

The main-event faces don't lose cleanly, they never have. You are holding something against Cena that every other face does in the main-event of the WWE.

Hart and Michaels could have a match without them and it could still be good. Cena without his 5 moves of death he is just a bad wrestler and needs those moves to look good.

Name me all the great singles matches Bret Hart had without the 5 Moves of Doom.

I actually think Triple H is amazing in the ring.He was shoved down are throats a lot as well but at least he did something good with the title.

And, in 5-10 years, people will be saying the same thing about John Cena. I would put money on it.

Slyfox how about you stop trying to make peoples arguments look less legitimate by trying to make it seem absolutely ridiculous or playing on their typing errors? "2 months ago , your welcome", "i think thats called irony" and shit like that .

When someone says that he hasn't lost cleanly in forever, I feel compelled to correct him. I'm sure he would thank me for helping him not say incorrect things in the future.

you clearly know that the argument for cena losing cleanly is epitimised by the fact that when he lost cleanly two months ago was his first clean loss in quite some time

I also clearly know that almost none of the main-event faces in the WWE lose cleanly, and to bash Cena for the same treatment that guys like HBK, HHH, and Undertaker get is ridiculous.

but you try and make the poster look stupid by making it seem as if they where saying it has been months since he last lost cleanly, and really if your best argument against someone is making fun of the fact that they spelled "******ed" as "retarted" by accident, your clutching at straws bro.

You should try actually reading the entire thread. For example, the "******ed" comment had absolutely nothing to do with Cena. His comment was that someone was going to come along and make me look ******ed. What kind of argument is that? It's not. It has nothing to do with anything, other than to express the fact that he cannot prove me wrong, and so he waits for some hypothetical person to come along and prove me wrong. What I said was not a personal attack on him, was just noting the irony of his statement. So, until you actually read and comprehend entire threads, and understand what is going on throughout, please do not make baseless comments like you did here again.