Mark Henry and other Black WWE stars being held back.

[Gore Illa]

I remember they tried to push Kofi, he just wasn't ready for it. He's a good midcarder, but he botches finishes so bad in one match you could see Orton pissed off saying "you stupid motherfucker."

Anyways, I think what held MVP back wasn't age really or anything other than the fact that he went to prison. I mean reformed criminal or not, who wants a convicted felon being the face of their company?

As far as Otunga goes, the only thing he has is charisma. His mic skills aren't that great and his wrestling ability sucks. If he were to be a top of the card draw, they'd have to keep his matches short and have him speak more elegantly. This guy went to Harvard Law School, have him act like it.

Batista was a worse botch than either Kofi or Otunga. Let's be honest, alot of the main eventers in recent history are no ring masters.

And I guess MVP did suffer from the prison thing, but I didn't even know he went to prison until I was told. Same with Otunga being in Law School.

I think Kofi deserves a title run if Swagger got one. Hell, Ziggler was Champ for a night.

 

[Saeros]

You tell me what was wrong with Elijah Burke? Ahmed Johnson? D lo Brown ? Mark Henry? Faarooq ? MVP? Shelton Benjamin? Marcus Cor Von? Big Zeke? Shad ? JTG? Tony Atlas? Ernie Ladd? Koko B Ware? Bad News Brown? Kofi ? D Von Dudley? Mabel/Viscera? Papa Shango/Godfather? JunkYardDog? Lashley? Mr Hughes? Plus many more... Are you saying all of these guys were crap and didnt have personality and the fans hated them??? Give me a break. All of those guys had skills , I forgot about Flash Funk , he could perform. Its all BS####

Ok, i take up your challenge

Elijah Burke - Nothing, they should of kept him, but they didnt fire him because hes black, He just got released as did many other talented people

Ahmed Johnson - Crap

D-Lo - Paralyzed Droz, after that was considered unsafe. Its a shame, but he wasnt ME material. And his depush wasnt because he was black

Mark Henry - Crap

Faarooq - Was coming to the end of his career, while i think that he should of had a shot at the Main event, when they saw what they had with the Rock, it was a no brainer. Better in ring, on the mic and younger.

MVP - Criminal Background. Would be a publicity nightmare to have him at the top in a PG era.

Shelton Benjamin - Good in ring, crap on the mic.

Marcus Cor Von - Crap ....Seriously crap

Ezekiel Jackson - Crap apart from his size, you could also ask whats wrong with them making Gene Snitsky or Mike Knox a big star. Because they all come under the same category. Big and Powerful, but rubbish at everything else

Shad - Injured a ref during a non rehearsed stunt, was big but bad in ring and on mic

JTG - Screams Midcarder and Tag Team wrestler. Size doesnt help.

Tony Atlas - crap

Koko b Ware - crap, how hes in the HOF i dont know...maybe because hes black.

Bad News Brown - Crap

Kofi - Size, charisma and mic skills hold him back, as someone else said, hes a new Jeff Hardy.

D-Von - hes a tag team wrestler. And even out of the dudleyz, Bubba has always been the more talented one.

Viscera - not even going to dignify "whats wrong" with him as i dont want to take up 7 pages

Papa Shango/Godfater - Crap

JunkYardDog - Size held him back

Lashley - Size and average skill, no charisma or mic skills. And while he "could" look intimidating, he had a babyface, which i could never take seriously, dunno about anyone else.

Mr Hughes - One of the biggest waste of spaces in wrestling histroy



As ive said, to make a good champion, you need to have at least 3 out of the 4 major skills and thats a good look, good ring skills, good mic skills and good size. Mic Skills obviously comes highest in the list, as without them, you just wont go anywhere no matter how hard you're pushed.

As you may of noticed, i listed a lot of them as crap. But there are a ton of white or other colour wrestlers that were equally as crap, some more so.

So from my eyes, out of the 22 black wrestlers from the past and present...

Burke had the look, ring skills and mic skills to make it, as did MVP
Ahmed Johnson had the Look/Size, but nothing else, same with Zeke, Shad,
Cor Von, Viscera and Henry

D-Lo had the ring skills and mic skills, but not the other 2

Shelton had the ring skills and the look, but just no mic skills which are needed

The Godfather had nothing. His size helped but he had nothing else. I remember just before he turned into the godfather and started coming out with hoe's, some matches he had on shotgun, he got no reaction at all. which was odd for the attitude era. So they gave him the hoe's to get some noise raised for him.

Koko had charisma, nothing else

Lashley had size and ring skills, but not even a shred of anything else

Faarooq in my opinion was unfortunate. He could of been bigger in the WWE, but the timing was all wrong. With Austin and Rock coming through, he never found his spot at the top of the card after 97.

We can sit and moan about Elijah Burke all we like, but it wont change a thing, he got released. Like so many others with potential. It wasnt because he was black, just something someone saw in him that they didnt like.

 

[Saeros]

Batista was a worse botch than either Kofi or Otunga. Let's be honest, alot of the main eventers in recent history are no ring masters.

And I guess MVP did suffer from the prison thing, but I didn't even know he went to prison until I was told. Same with Otunga being in Law School.

I think Kofi deserves a title run if Swagger got one. Hell, Ziggler was Champ for a night.

But no one would be happy if Kofi was made champion for 1 night would they. I wouldnt. I hate 1 night champions no matter who it is. And there would be 100 more threads on here and elsewhere claiming it was because he was black, so its no use.

I dont think Kofi will ever be world champ because of his size. Others have got there, such as Rey and Jeff Hardy, but they both had something Kofi doesnt. Rey has the background of ECW, WCW and being a star before he entered WWE, and Jeff was a teen idol. I cant see Kofi having 9000 women and children screaming for him.

I dont think Kofi deserves a title run...not yet at least, but bringing up swagger, i dont think he deserved his title run. Especially as it came so out of the blue

 

[Havoc]

From my perspective I think what mouthy idiot is trying to get across is that how can you have some many black stars who have came through the doors of the WWE and only have 2 of them win the world title..... (Only rock wom the WWE title I believe....) This is a valid question I mean there have been a lot of wrestlers who have been white and just as shitty in the ring as mark henry, just as un-charismatic as shelton benjamin, or have done some questionable things like MVP, but they still managed to at least for a small moment been able to hold a world title.

Alot of people have been bringing up The Rock as one of the most if not the most successful WWE superstars ever and he was half black. This is true but I have always put the rock is a separate category when it comes to this topic. For one the rock wasn't fully black and as another poster said the rock was so cool and smooth that he made you forget about his skin color and just focus more on him. Now the rock to alot of people was easy on the eyes (pause) by that I mean as him being black/samoan he looked like a generally nice guy who if you ran into him while you were out an about he didn't look like he would pose any threat to you at all. Now lets say if the rock was still an active wrestler and someone like an R-truth came along and they both looked as they do now but truth had all the charisma and rock had truth's conspiracy gimmick. Who do you think would get a chance at the title first rock or truth?

IMO it would still be Rock.....Why? Because even if rocks gimmick was about him pretty much being insane he still looks 20 times more presentable on a world stage than truth does even with all of rock's charisma...... The only reason I bring this hypothetical scenario up is because I feel like black superstars have to be pretty much not only over with the crowd and good in the ring but the perfect role models in every which way to get the belt. Rather than white superstars who just have to be over with the crowd and good in the ring.

Now my only real evidence to support this (if you can call it that) is back when there were a shitload of superstars getting caught with steroids I remember that Orton and Edge were two of the big superstars who had either failed a drug test or had at least been implemented in one of those investigations. Now since then Orton and Edge have been multiple time world champions but does that not show up bad in the public eye?

In this thread when people bring up MVP and they say his criminal record held him back..... How so? MVP did something very stupid when he was a teenager that landed him in jail for 9 years but he paid his debt to society and made something of himself. Meanwhile superstars like Orton, Edge, & even Hardy have been linked to steroids but they have still been able to be a world champion and the so called "face of the company"...

 

[tidus21]

From my perspective I think what mouthy idiot is trying to get across is that how can you have some many black stars who have came through the doors of the WWE and only have 2 of them win the world title..... (Only rock wom the WWE title I believe....) This is a valid question I mean there have been a lot of wrestlers who have been white and just as shitty in the ring as mark henry, just as un-charismatic as shelton benjamin, or have done some questionable things like MVP, but they still managed to at least for a small moment been able to hold a world title.

Alot of people have been bringing up The Rock as one of the most if not the most successful WWE superstars ever and he was half black. This is true but I have always put the rock is a separate category when it comes to this topic. For one the rock wasn't fully black and as another poster said the rock was so cool and smooth that he made you forget about his skin color and just focus more on him. Now the rock to alot of people was easy on the eyes (pause) by that I mean as him being black/samoan he looked like a generally nice guy who if you ran into him while you were out an about he didn't look like he would pose any threat to you at all. Now lets say if the rock was still an active wrestler and someone like an R-truth came along and they both looked as they do now but truth had all the charisma and rock had truth's conspiracy gimmick. Who do you think would get a chance at the title first rock or truth?

IMO it would still be Rock.....Why? Because even if rocks gimmick was about him pretty much being insane he still looks 20 times more presentable on a world stage than truth does even with all of rock's charisma...... The only reason I bring this hypothetical scenario up is because I feel like black superstars have to be pretty much not only over with the crowd and good in the ring but the perfect role models in every which way to get the belt. Rather than white superstars who just have to be over with the crowd and good in the ring.

Now my only real evidence to support this (if you can call it that) is back when there were a shitload of superstars getting caught with steroids I remember that Orton and Edge were two of the big superstars who had either failed a drug test or had at least been implemented in one of those investigations. Now since then Orton and Edge have been multiple time world champions but does that not show up bad in the public eye?

In this thread when people bring up MVP and they say his criminal record held him back..... How so? MVP did something very stupid when he was a teenager that landed him in jail for 9 years but he paid his debt to society and made something of himself. Meanwhile superstars like Orton, Edge, & even Hardy have been linked to steroids but they have still been able to be a world champion and the so called "face of the company"...

The problem with your statement is the Rock is the Rock and the Truth is the Truth. There is no use in switching their roles and gimmicks because it is not a viable argument. The reason why the Truth will not get a title is a mixture of not being able to draw as a title holder from previous experience(TNA) and the fact that his old. Remember R-Truth had his first run in the WWF as K-kwick with the same what's up gimmick and was squashed by Matt Hardy in the European title belt run. He wont get a title run at least right now anyways because the belt in on Cena, the money maker of the company. Could he possibly get a title run down the line when Cena needs to drop the belt to go up against the Rock...maybe. But CM Punk, the Miz, Rey Mysterio if needed a big face are candidates to run with the belt in that case. Why are the "white" guys like Swagger getting title shots before Truth.

A) The WWE needed new top heels
B) Shamus/Swagger/Ziggler are young with some talent
C) They were going up against proven talent that could draw and hopefully get them over

If both Truth and Henry were in their prime then yes they could have had a title run right now but they are not. The younger guys have years ahead so if their title run like Swagger and Ziggler did not work out they could still rebuild and thats the reason why Vince invested in the younger talent because he still has them for years. While Truth and Henry may have at most 5 years left in the business.

I attribute more of the injury that MVP suffered during his run as the demise of his WH title hopes because it happened at a time when Jericho and Hardy were making their big returns, Edge got hot and won a few belts, and Kennedy jumped him on the list and Lashley did as well. It cost him and that was really what happened, he got hurt at the wrong time and in the end that kept him in the midcard.

As for Edge/Orton/Hardy its simple they drew the money and are hot commodities. Simply put and with the new drug policy everything is cut out of the equation so no one things about it unless you are Hardy and still do it.

 

[wrestlingfan]

To the guy who said im black, well if you read my original post you would know I am white. I respect the black guys opinions on this subject more because they know deep down what im saying. I think some of the black posters on here are just alittle worried about speaking up on this because they will get blasted for their opinions so I see why they are defending the WWE and the white side of things.

I will stick by my OP though when I say that too many black superstars have been ruined by the WWE creative team and by Vince himself. Over and Over people keep saying The Rock and Booker T got over and got the WWE title , again thats my point , 2 fucking guys out of how many white guys. I dont care what anybody says , there have been talented black superstars who were not given a chance. John Cena and Randy Orton arent as great as people keep saying , they are robotic and predictable but they are white and have that american look that Vince loves. They didnt do something soooo fucking amazing to get the spots they have, as a matter of fact Orton only has his spot because of his dad and his looks.

You tell me what was wrong with Elijah Burke? Ahmed Johnson? D lo Brown ? Mark Henry? Faarooq ? MVP? Shelton Benjamin? Marcus Cor Von? Big Zeke? Shad ? JTG? Tony Atlas? Ernie Ladd? Koko B Ware? Bad News Brown? Kofi ? D Von Dudley? Mabel/Viscera? Papa Shango/Godfather? JunkYardDog? Lashley? Mr Hughes? Plus many more... Are you saying all of these guys were crap and didnt have personality and the fans hated them??? Give me a break. All of those guys had skills , I forgot about Flash Funk , he could perform. Its all BS####

John Cena and Randy Orton may not be rthe best wrestlers but they DRAW, people like them If you are so whiny about a fake sport where people are "given" titles go watch sports like NBA or UFC where backs and worked to accomplish things.It's people like you that make the IWC look bad and I advise everyone to stop arguing and ebating with him because obviously he is a "mouthy idiot" Also most of those guys were

A. Weren't talented enough for the Main Event
B. Weren't marketable.
C. Choae to leave the company or was forced to leave due to budget cuts
d. Overshadowed by superstars who were more marketable.

 

[Good Golly It's Ollie]

OP, did you forget?

I wonder what he thinks is so funny? And none of this "the Rock isn't fully black" nonsense, the other half of him is still a minority, Samoans are rarely pushed to main event in WWE even as prolific as they are.

When another black guy comes along who's as over and as big a draw as the Rock, McMahon will push him. Count on it.

As for the time being, you've got R-Truth in main event, Kofi nearly always carrying a mid-card title, and Mark Henry moving into a higher spot as well. Ezekiel Jackson is the current Intercontinental Champion.

I'm sorry but you can't claim black people are being held back because of "corporate racism", as some have already mentioned, Vince only sees the colour green and rightly so because he runs a business.

 

[GSM]

OP, did you forget?


When another black guy comes along who's as over and as big a draw as the Rock, McMahon will push him. Count on it.

As for the time being, you've got R-Truth in main event, Kofi nearly always carrying a mid-card title, and Mark Henry moving into a higher spot as well. Ezekiel Jackson is the current Intercontinental Champion.

I'm sorry but you can't claim black people are being held back because of "corporate racism", as some have already mentioned, Vince only sees the colour green and rightly so because he runs a business.

I absolutely agree with that, holding back members of a certain ethnic group would not only be immoral, it would also result in bad press and therefor bad business. And I don´t remember any period in the WWE or WWF where african american wrestlers were held back, because I´ve seen a lot of them on television over the years. And today ? No doubt about it, african americans are not being held back, Mark Henry is in the SD! mainevent picture, R-Truth is working a program with John Cena and Kofi Kingston is a solid midcarder ... I never really bought into any of these little 'racism fairy tales' in the WWE

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Idiotic thread.

Guys like Mark Henry and Ezekiel Jackson bring little to the table apart from their size. And yet they have gotten huge pushes at different points in their career. Ezekiel is getting a huge push right now and he is the holder of a prestigious midcard belt that has been held by some of the legends of the business. Mark Henry was pushed hard as a main eventer in 2006 and main evented Royal Rumble for the blue brand along with Kurt Angle and got a WrestleMania match against Undertaker. He isn't doing too badly now either. But due to having nothing apart from their size, both guys won't go too far, at least by the looks of it.

Kofi Kingston can go in the ring but is botchy. He was given a huge feud with the hottest heel on the planet at that time in Orton. Yet it was this feud that started getting Orton more cheers than boos and ultimately turned him babyface. He started out hot in the feud but kept losing heat as the feud progressed.

R-Truth was a boring babyface but he has been a relevation as a heel. However his match with Cena at Capitol Punishment is one of the most boring main event matches that I have ever witnessed. He is great on the mic as a heel but he cannot wrestle as one.

The only reason why there haven't been huge black stars in the WWE is because most of them did not have the talent. The only two who had some talent were Burke and MVP. But Burke was a cocky dumbass who thought that having little talent meant that he was the next Rock. He isn't doing so well in TNA either which is not supposed to be racist, isn't that so? MVP did well as a heel could not connect much as a face. Plus with his criminal record and his health issues, it was always going to be a risk to push him.

If you don't draw you aren't going to get pushed in the WWE. It's a simple equation really and has nothing to do with race.

 

[jacdnwarrior]

We seem to be a little confused about something here. It's the talent's job to do the work in the ring and on the mike. It's the promoter's job to create the interest in that performer and develop the storyline that creates interest in that performer. It's the creative department's job to create the words for the talent to say that puts that performer over. WWE does a horrible job when it comes to black performers.

If you're going to tell me that black performers can't draw, I'm telling you that is utter bullshit. There is the Rock and he's Samoan and black. They developed his character after he was being booed and a victim of 'Rocky Sucks chants' and with what he brought to the table and their writing he went on to become one of the largest stars in the business. Booker T had a run as a villain. He would have gotten the support as a face but they refused to push him or give him the storylines to take him to the next level of popularity. Benjamin was over but they turned him heel and had him do this ridiculous Mama's boy angle. I mean you look at black performers no matter their skill level, they just get crappy storylines and lousy pushes to work with. Cryme Time were really popular and they can't get the titles. Were they great, no. But they were ok and popular enough to at least earn a run. CT is split up only for WWE to release Shad and have JTG job. More often than not if a performer who is black and has won over the crowd, they don't seem to get the shot.

 

[tidus21]

We seem to be a little confused about something here. It's the talent's job to do the work in the ring and on the mike. It's the promoter's job to create the interest in that performer and develop the storyline that creates interest in that performer. It's the creative department's job to create the words for the talent to say that puts that performer over. WWE does a horrible job when it comes to black performers.

If you're going to tell me that black performers can't draw, I'm telling you that is utter bullshit. There is the Rock and he's Samoan and black. They developed his character after he was being booed and a victim of 'Rocky Sucks chants' and with what he brought to the table and their writing he went on to become one of the largest stars in the business. Booker T had a run as a villain. He would have gotten the support as a face but they refused to push him or give him the storylines to take him to the next level of popularity. Benjamin was over but they turned him heel and had him do this ridiculous Mama's boy angle. I mean you look at black performers no matter their skill level, they just get crappy storylines and lousy pushes to work with. Cryme Time were really popular and they can't get the titles. Were they great, no. But they were ok and popular enough to at least earn a run. CT is split up only for WWE to release Shad and have JTG job. More often than not if a performer who is black and has won over the crowd, they don't seem to get the shot.

Often times its up to the talent to create the character or make the character work, its creative's job to make things work within the storyline of things.

The thing with the The Rock, is they created Rocky Mavia for him and his babyface character. It did not work and thus he himself created The ROCK and modeled the character after the real life man Dwayne Johnson. It was not creative that gave him the lines or the character, he did it himself. That got him over and that got him the top spot.

For benjamin, as a face he was over...but because his mic work was terrible he got turned into a heel so he didnt have to be on the mic so often but it still hurt him. You can give a guy words but if he can deliver it then its not going to work and thats what happened with benjamin.

As for Booker T, it was because he was a WCW man and that hurt him for years until he got his heel role. Yes I agree he would have done well as a Face Champion but its one of those things that did not happen.

MVP was on a role but got hurt didnt work well as a face and lost his spot during his injury to returning wrestlers who were drawing more money.

Cryme Time, had a good gimmick, was over with the crowd but in a lackluster division that unfortunately is what caused the whole stop of a push that they should have gotten. Should they have had the titles? yes but WWE wanted to cut their loses and try to push JTG and that hasnt worked out well yet(In my opinion he has to change his gimmick)

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I see this as being more of a case of someone seeing what they want to see rather than what's actually there. If Vince McMahon was racist, I fail to see why he'd hire so many black wrestlers to work for his company over the years.

Let's use the OP's logic a bit and apply it on a broader scale. So because there haven't been as many big black mega stars in WWE, that's a sign of racism. Ok, let's expand that a bit to encompass other forms of prejudice as well. Is it a sign of prejudice if a wrestler of English descent gets a big push instead of a wrestler of Italian descent? What about wrestlers who have tans vs. wrestlers who don't. Is it a sign of Vince McMahon's prejudice that more wrestlers with tans get pushed over wrestlers who don't? And what about wrestlers of Hispanic descent that get pushed instead of wrestlers from India?

My point is that it takes no effort whatsoever to bring up the possibility of someone being prejudiced. Of course none of these potential examples of bias holds the same level of intensity due to the unfortunate history of slavery and the impact it's had. Like any civilized and educated person, I'm all for equality but we've become so obssessed with being politically correct that we allow it to cripple us to a few cold hard truths and facts of life. For instance, if I think John Cena is an overall better professional wrestler than Shelton Benjamin, that doesn't make me racist. If I'd rather watch him wrestle against CM Punk than watch Shelton Benjamin leap off of a 20 foot ladder, there's nothing racial about it. Sometimes, certain black wrestlers might not be as good as certain white wrestlers and vice versa. Has nothing to do with their skin color rather than the abilities that they bring to the table.

The concept of what's "good" in pro wrestling is subjective. There are very few universal truths into what makes wrestling good for any particular person. Why does Vince McMahon put Randy Orton ahead of, say, Mark Henry? Because Mark Henry doesn't bring Vince as much money as Randy Orton does. You think Vince wouldn't push Mark Henry the way Randy Orton is pushed if Henry had the kind of athletic ability as Orton and got the type of reaction Orton gets? The only color Vince cares about is green. If Vince thinks he can make money off of you, then he's gonna milk you for all he can. That's wrestling. Hell, that's business in and of itself. You look for something that works well and if you find it, then you use it to get the most you can out of it.

The fact that the OP might not like John Cena & Randy Orton being pushed is his opinion and he's entitled to it. However, the vast majority of the WWE audience doesn't share that opinion. So who should he listen to when it comes to running his company: a small portion of his audience that likes these guys over here or the vast majority that prefers those guys over there.

Also, I often wonder why it is that Vince is targeted by online fans with these sorts of baseless accusations and not TNA or ROH. How about New Japan Pro Wrestling or All Japan Pro Wrestling? How many black wrestlers have found success in the Land of the Rising Sun? Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any. How many black singles World Champions have TNA and ROH produced? Again, I can't really think of any. How many black wrestlers have been main eventers in those companies? You're accusing Vince of being racist right but racism isn't confined by borders and company logos, so why not bring up those companies' lack of black mega stars?

Overall, it just sounds like the typical IWC rant trying to pass off your opinion as concrete proof and fact.

 

[WWWYKI777]

I think these GIFs display that they aren't really being held back , they are both getting big pushes right now

And I'm LOVING IT!

I hope to see them as WWE/WHC champions within the year , before the psychopath gimmicks they are on cool off and they lose this momentum

 

[loucar86]

vince doesnt care what color you are... only if you can produce the most important color... green.

you think he says o well mark henry theres a guy thats gonna move merchandise and get ratings. o wait hes black never mind or he wont get ratings or make me alot of money so stick him in the mid card unless otherwise needed

???

 

[TheGamea]

I do agree with this topic, BUT its not the fact that black stars dont get titles its the fact that there gimmicks are racist...point
R-truth - even this I hate him but b4 his push every "little jimmy" was singing his songs and saying WHAT UP every week...WWE pushes him and he portrays a crazy black man
Mark henry - i never really like him but his WWE push involves him being a CRAZY black man.
Crime tyme - criminals, need i say more
MVP - the WWEs take on a rich black basket/football player
Kharma - crazy black chick
Virgil – servant
The godfather – pimp
Shelton Benjamin – momma boy
And even the rock – the nation of domination a Muslim / black panthers party rejects

MY point is why is it that ANY wwe star that IS black and get attention it has to be a stereotypical charter???

and for anyone to say "they do it to other races" I agree but treating all native cultures that crap doesnt make it right

 

[byrnside]

There's really nothing new that I can add to this discussion, but because I feel like the OP is just so ridiculous I'm going to reiterate most of it anyway.

A.) Mark Henry, Big Zeke, The Boogeyman, most of the names that have been thrown around would never make a good world champion, not because they're black, but because they're mediocre. R-Truth may be the exception to this. I'm still not entirely convinced, yet.

B.) The Rock and Booker T. Also, I think a couple of you mentioned Bobby Lashley who Vince would've flown to the moon and back several times if he hadn't bailed.

C.) Shelton Benjamin was personally one of my favorite mid-card talents for a long time. His main problem was he absolutely freakin' terrible on the mic. I don't care what anyone tries to make as an argument, it's the reality of the situation and if you're terrible on the mic, you're not going to be the face of the company as the champion.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I really do not think WWE deliberately will not push a guy because he is black. Vince is a businessman and he will push who the crowd get behind and who will make him money. He pushes people he believes will be a success.

Bobby Lashley- black and was given a mega push. He would have been champion had he not left the company.

Shelton Benjamin- He was a multi-time IC champion, not a bad thing to be. I believe he could have been a world champ but he lacked charisma

Booker T- Won the world title, and pretty much everything else.

There are other examples too. I think Kofi Kingston could also break through and become champion one day.

Mark Henry is more over now than he has ever been. He was not refused a push for being black, it was because he does not have the talent to lead the company as a main event level player. He just does not have good wrestling matches, simple as that.

WWE stereotypes its wrestlers- e.g. Highlanders, Cade/Murdoch etc but I do not think for one minute if a black wrestler came along who was worthy of a title, that they would not get it and it be given to a lesser white man. That is just plain stupid.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

It's not their skin color thats holding them back, its their lack of talent.

A lot of them are one sided, they can wrestle but they cant talk, or they car in the middle where there not bad on the mic, but not great in the ring.

Shelton Benjamin was a wrestlers wrestler, a great talent in the ring, but a complete spot monkey with no talent on the microphone. He couldn't cut a promo to save his life. He could entertain you in the ring during his matches, but if it wasn't for his big spots no one would remember this guy at all.

Ezekiel Jackson is currently in his second major push, his first one happened at the end of ECW when he won the ECW Title from Christian on the final program, then he got injured and was completely forgotten about. Now hes in a program with Barrett and whats left of the Corre. He's good on the mic, but he's awful in the ring. He may work a main event program at some time but I don't see him being a main event champion ever.

Mark Henry has been living off of his Worlds Strongest Man title since his debut 16 years ago. He's no longer the worlds strongest man, I doubt he could even make it past the first round vs some of the Worlds Strongest Man competitors out there today. He's always been terrible in the ring, his promo work has always been bad, and if he wasn't so heavy into kissing up to Vince I'm sure he would be gone by now

JTG is ok in the ring, hes ok on the mic, but no one is every going to be able to get passed him being in crime time to take him serious. Crime Tyme was a decent tag team, but they never captured the gold, and never broke out from being two jobbers with a bad gimmick.

R-Truth has been on fire these past few months with his promo work, but his in ring work is still lacking and he hasn't had a credible feud as a heel yet to make him a real threat. He has the talent to be a champion seeing has he's a former NWA champion, but I don't know how well that would translate into the WWE. Vince loves him, but doesn't love him enough to give him a run with the WWE title.

Darrin Young... Failed push in the Nexus, failed to break into the SES with Punk, and now he's lost in the shuffle and I'm surprised he hasn't been released yet. Isn't he on NXT now? I'm sure if you paired him and Cena up they'd make a great tag team...

Shad Gaspard look as though he was going to receive a push after breaking away from JTG in crime time, but he wasn't remotely good. Ok promo work, shotty in ring work, released.

Did I miss anyone?

 

[mrwilliams061088]

I'm an african american and I have been a huge wrestling fan my entire life pretty much. During that time I only recall about 2 black world champions, the rock and booker t. Would I like to see another black world champion and more black superstars being pushed? Of course. But I realize that wrestling is a majority white business and while some white wrestling fans wouldn't mind seeing a black world champion most don't. I keep hearing the argument that none of the black superstars can't talk on the mic and they can't get over. David Otunga is a graduate of Harvard Law School, i'm pretty sure that the guy can sound intelligent on the mic. Mark Henry's promos aren't terrible, they aren't great but they are definitely not the worse. I keep hearing "black superstars can't get over" Well, how do you know when the wwe or heck not even tna will push one? Think about all the great black superstars that have come through wwe: Bobby Lasley, MVP, Shelton Benjamin, Elijah Burke (d'angelo dinerio) just to name a few. At some point all of these guys were over with the fans, well except elijah burke and not one of these guys never got a title shot. The reason that there aren't really a lot of black wwe fans is because the wwe refuses to push any black superstars. Do I need to remind anyone of what a disaster Jack Swagger's title reign was? Or that the great khali is a former world champion? You're telling me all the black superstars are just that bad? I mean really? Why not give Mark Henry a short title run? Maybe a month, heck i'll take five days. Why not give r-truth a title run? I mean he's one of the top heels right now. i garuntee had it been a john morrison heel turn he'd be a world champion right now but because it's r-truth he of course, lost. Kofi Kingston is a botch fest, and what white superstars don't make mistakes? All of you guys get so upset whenever this topic is brought up, why? Because no one on here likes to hear the truth and the truth is no black superstar is being pushed. Ok Big Zeke got the ic title, big dealAny wrestling fan knows that title hasn't meant crap in about 5 or 6 years now.You complain about the wwe not trying anything new and that you're sick of the same people winning the title, well add a mark henry, a kofi kingston, an r-truth or a david otunga, but wait none of them are good enough right? Wrestling a mjority white business, I get that, believe me I do. But don't say a black world champion can't work, won't work because that is complete bull. The Rock is black and is probably the most popular superstar of all time and is a 7 time wwe champion. So don't say a black superstar can't get over, because the rock is living proof that it can happen. So before all of you decide it "can't work' or it "won't work" all i'm saying is, just try it.

 

[Davi323]

Considering how much Mark Henry has been brought into the conversation, exactly how racist is it to sign a guy to a ten year contract? Nobody gets ten year deals, but Mark Henry did. Vince McMahon only sees one color. GREEN. If you can make a shit load of money for him, you get pushes. People forget that both the WWE and World Heavyweight titles are meaningless. They just props, not actual symbols of how good you are. Who gives a shit whether or not any wrestler got to hold an imaginary title that doesn't really mean anything? What matters is getting PAID. The rest is just storyline. Mark Henry has a really nice home because of Vince McMahon, has enough money that he should be able to live very comfortably for the rest of his life without having to work again once he is done. Vince has paid him millions and millions of dollars, how is that racist? Is it also racist that Rowdy Roddy Piper, Curt Hennig, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ricky Steamboat, Paul Orndorff, and a whole bunch of other WWE Hall of Famers never wore the WWF title? No. Some guys just don't get the belt, even being huge stars. It's just a prop, people put way too much value on "winning" it. Is Hollywood racist because while his movies made Will Smith a kajillionaire, he never won a best actor Oscar? He is soooooo oppressed. He will never win an Oscar! And to make matters worse, he made a cool 200 million off his last movie, how terrible!

Wrestling is like that. You don't need a belt to be one of the biggest stars.

 

[Game Boy]

I have tried to read through this thread..but all it has done is give me a headache! I have a few questions:

1. This has been addressed quite a bit already, but exactly what black wrestlers have been in WWE that should of been champion that wasn't in the past say, 20 years?!? Ron Simmons obviously could have been WWF Champion just as he was WCW Champion, but he did not NEED to be champion....the only time it would have made sense for him to be champion would of been in the Nation days..but The Rock, another black man, came along and out shinned EVERYONE in the Nation. I have saw a few other guys mentioned I want to address:
Shelton plain and simply was not a DRAW! Shelton is great in the ring, but can anyone realy see folks filling an arena to see Shelton and his "crazy eyes"
Lashley - Vince woulda made him champion, no question...but I do not think he was the draw that vince thought he was either....I mean how long can a guy draw as a wrestler who looks like Wayne Brady on steroids??!
Elijah Burke - I would say this was the biggest ball drop..but how many white guys has the same thing happened to in WWE?

Most others mentioned are not even worth commenting on.

2. Has anyone given any thought to the ratio of white guys vs. black guys in professional wrestling period? Bottom line, wrestling is not something that most athletic blacks do.

 

[The Champ]

Oh, come on now. How can you pull the "black wrestlers aren't getting pushed" argument at a time when guys like R-Truth, Mark Henry, and Ezekiel Jackson are getting HUGE pushes?

I mean, think about this. Truth is, at best, the fourth best heel on Raw. Punk, Miz, and Del Rio are all better in pretty much every possible category. Yet, Truth just got a main event title shot on the last pay-per-view, and had that PPV pretty much booked around his match with Cena, as opposed to the Orton/Christian rivalry that had been brewing for months. It took an amazing worked shoot promo by Punk to put him even a little bit on the back burner, and he's still up there in and around the main event scene on the flagship show.

Henry is also getting an incredible monster push, and has been a prominent figure on both Raw and SmackDown for the last couple of weeks. They've had him destroy two of their greatest "monster" characters of all time, Kane and Big Show, and are building him up to be this unstoppable and reckless force. All this is coming when the guy's been around for too long and, as others have said, is past his prime. Yet he is essentially being prioritized over a lot of younger guys on the roster, even with, as Booker T would say, limited skill and ability.

Then you have Jackson, who is in the midst of a huge babyface push following the Corre's breakup. He won the Intercontinental Title and seems like he's being groomed for a top face spot on SmackDown, especially since Randy Orton and Kane are the only faces on the show who have so much as touched the main event scene before. They're investing more in him than guys like Daniel Bryan and Wade Barrett, who have had their pushes stalled numerous times, in favor of the black guy.

Yeah, sorry, but I don't see the racism. At all.

 

[D-Man]

What the hell do you guys consider a push???? Im talking WWE Heavyweight Title runs here. To hell with IC strap and U.S strap and tag belts and main event slots on rare occasions. We all know the World Champ represents the face of the company. And how many pure 100% black men have been the champ ... 1 guy.. Booker T and again they made him wear a silly crown and call himself "king Bookah"... You people who keep claiming the most popular guys the Title are PROVING MY POINT. Why arent the black guys more popular??? Alot of black people watch WWE and I guarantee they are more savvy about the product than most white kids in the crowd who do what they are told. The made R-Truth smoke and blow smoke on Morrison because Truth is black and the stereotype is that blacks smoke... Be honest with yourselves people and open your eyes....

What I am saying is that black men get reps for being smokers, and drug abusers and can you imagine John Cena blowing smoke on another wrestler like that? It was at least stereotypical if not racist. And everybody keeps saying that black guys arent marketable and cant draw, THATS RACIST RIGHT THERE... Its like your saying they cant draw money or lead a company because they are black. What is wrong with you guys on here??? Its all about the writing team saying hey lets give this guy a push and have him be an all american healthy company guy and put the belt on him. Lets do this for say someone like kofi or Mark or Ezekiel . Its all about them just writing it into the script , its a male soap opera REMEMBER even Vince says that. Its real simple , any man can draw and be the champ if they script it correctly.

First of all, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're black. Now, even if you reply that you're not black, I won't believe you. So save it.

Secondly, you sir are an idiot. Blacks that smoke are a sterotype? Really? I've heard of them all having huge dicks or being good at sports but smoking? Really?? Let's just say for one second that this is true. Yes, Truth blew smoke in Morrisons face. ONCE. Has he even been seen on television with a cigarette? NOPE. That tells me it wasn't done as a stereotypical characteristic to add to his obviously black character.

A black world champion has not been a recurrence for the same reasons that a black president has not been a recurrence: They haven't found one that fits the profile or is, quite frankly, good enough for the spot in these types of leadership positions. Both of these types of men are chosen by the audience. (i.e. One is formally voted into office and the other is a result of crowd response.) But let's face it; right now, no black wrestler is good enough at what they do to hold onto a world title and represent the company. They just aren't interesting enough to the wrestling audience. I don't blame their skin color... I blame their results as professional wrestlers (or in this situation, their lack thereof.)

Their lack of world championships is not due to the WWE's prejudice; your argument is due to the fact that YOU are prejudiced. You see black colored skin, lack of a world title, and you put two and two together. You're no different than any black worker in this world that pulls a race card on their bosses to get them an extra step. The ironic part about that is that said worker is using their skin color to gain advancement in a position that normally requires exceptional skill by showing how well they can cut corners. It's fucking pathetic.

You mentioned guys like Shelton Benjamin, R-Truth, Mark Henry, MVP, Bobby Lashley, and Ron Simmons. So let's get real and break these guys down for a second:

Shelton Benjamin: Incredible ring skills and about as much charisma as there is food in Ethiopia.

R-Truth: Very good in-ring skills and is finally getting a chance to showcase his promo skills and personality. He's been impressive as of late but let's see if the gimmick lasts. Although he's a definite possibility of world champion material NOW, we have to see if the audience sticks with his new gimmick of his for a while to prove if he has longevity.

Mark Henry: For a big man, he moves well in the ring. He's a veteran, so he has longevity. Problem is that he changes from heel to face every time the wind blows. If he could keep the audience interested in him for more than 5 minutes between gimmick changes, he'd have a shot at a world title. Right now he's got more momentum than he's ever had. Hopefully, he keeps it up.

MVP: The WWE made a huge mistake when they turned him babyface. They not only changed everything that was interesting about him but they did it while he was white hot. Was it a racial thing? No fucking way. The guy was totally over as a heel, they tried to make him a babyface looking for a world title, it floundered and he didn't recover. End of story.

Bobby Lashley: Wasn't he a former ECW champion during a time when ECW was getting a big push as a brand? As far as I'm concerned, Lashley achieved FAR more than he ever should have, considering that his charisma had more holes in it than Swiss fucking cheese.

Ron Simmons: I can't even give a serious answer for this. Are you serious? Sorry, but Ron didn't start connecting with the WWE audience until he started saying "DAMN." Prior to that, he was the leader of the WWE's first and only black stable. And he couldn't even get THAT right so they replaced him with The Rock.

So, in conclusion, you're blinded by your own bigotry. If you actually stopped to look at the big picture you'd realize that your argument, just like many others before you, holds no water.

 

[punk is gold]

MVP not winning the World Title as a heel is under the same category as when Muhammad Hassan was released 100 % Wwe's fault. As for the argument that Shelton Benjamin couldn't win one because of his lack of charisma than how the fuck do you explain someone like Benoit or Bret Hart winning the big one because although they were great in the ring they had no more charisma than Benjamin.

 

[D-Man]

MVP not winning the World Title as a heel is under the same category as when Muhammad Hassan was released 100 % Wwe's fault. As for the argument that Shelton Benjamin couldn't win one because of his lack of charisma than how the fuck do you explain someone like Benoit or Bret Hart winning the big one because although they were great in the ring they had no more charisma than Benjamin.

This is where fans are wrong about Chris Benoit. In terms of his charisma while wrestling, his personality wasn't cracking jokes or cutting promos with sharp quips or zings... he was INTENSE. That was his character. He walked into a wrestling ring, destroyed everyone, walked out, and called it a day. And he did it better than anyone in his generation, with a few exceptions.

Speaking of those few exceptions, you actually put Bret Hart into a category that speaks of him being without personality or charisma?? Did you watch pro-wrestling prior to 2005? How about prior to 2000? If so, you would have seen his personality shine in every promo that he ever cut from when he was a tag team member in the Hart Foundation, through his world title reigns, and especially throughout his most recent Hart Foundation stint where he was the leader of Canadian supporters on a mission against America. Ignoring this is just plain, well, IGNORANT.

All of you Shelton Benjamin lovers need to wake up and smell his lack of charisma... the guy was all in-ring skill and nothing outside of it.