Mark Henry and other Black WWE stars being held back.

[therockiswwf]

After that, you gotta wonder: Is this really a one time occurrence? I'm sorry, but Mouthy Idiot has a point when he says "corporate racist". Let's face it, most everyone on Earth has a psychological preference to their own race and it can't be helped. So in the corporate world, being "corporate racist" doesn't mean you won't care for minorities. It just means that your psychological preference MIGHT (note I said might, not will) help determine who you surround yourself with in the company. But I maintain that Vince is not racist or corporate racist (he loves R-Truth and he wanted to give Hassan a world title shot), but rather it's the creative team.

So you assume that every single member of the WWE creative is white. Do you know that? Have any proof?

And let's be real: to some of you who went and said WWE hasn't had any worthy black competitors besides Booker and Rock must be off your meds. IDGAF what anyone says: Shelton should have been champ if Dolph Ziggler (who is just like Shelton imo, good ring skills, lacking mic skills) is recognized as WHC.

First of all, Dolph never really "won" the title. Shelton had awful mic skills and very little charisma. He can wrestle a great match but thats it. Shelton didn't get over because of Shelton.

MVP was one of the hottest heels of the last half of the 2000s and should have won it (hell, he could have won it as a face too had Creative not screwed that up too). R Truth and Henry I'd say will soon be champs in due time. Kofi, On a side note, lost his chance because of Orton, not because of race.

McMahon actually didn't like MVP as a heel for some reason so that wasn't race. I think MVP would have got it if he was younger (kind of like R-Truth). If Henry was going to be a champ, it would have happened by now, he just doesn't have the tools to be a world champ. We don't know that Orton costed Kofi his push. I still think they messed up by putting Kofi against the top heel, therefore leaving him with no one but lesser heels and the title. They just didn't have anyone left after Orton for him.

And even Rock and Booker aren't the complete cases of a black man winning the world title without help. Booker should have and was gonna win it against HHH that WM a long time ago, but we all know how that turned out. Booker was destined to win a world title at some point, I mean come on, he was one of WCWs biggest stars, so if he never won it that would have been a sin. And even though Rock is my all time favorite, it could have been his connection with the Wild Somoan family coupled with his amazing skill that made him who he is. Besides, The Rock being black is something that Google or Wikipedia would have had to tell you.

The Rock became The Rock because he was kind of talented. He is considered one of the top four in the WWE ever. You don't get their because of your family. Last time I checked, Somoan is not a color. Booker T won the world title and is black. He is not the only one who was supposed to win something and ending up losing. Drew McIntrye was supposed to be world champ by now, does that make the WWE racist against Scottish people, no.

Vince cares about money, not color. Khali can't wrestle at all, but since he is huge in India and could make Vince money, he got a World title. That right there is proof of what Vince loves, money.

 

[Da Solo]

So you assume that every single member of the WWE creative is white. Do you know that? Have any proof?

I never said that. What I mean is that the Creative team rarely puts in the effort to give a World title push to a minority unless some major occurence happened (i.e. Mark Henry's ECW title was because of the Michael Hayes thing, Rey's 1st world title was bcuz of the Eddie's sad and unfortunate passing)

First of all, Dolph never really "won" the title. Shelton had awful mic skills and very little charisma. He can wrestle a great match but thats it. Shelton didn't get over because of Shelton.

Dolph is listed as a former WHC, regardless of the controversy. As for Shelton, he very well could have been a world champion regardless of his mic skills (hell, they could have just brought back his "mama" ). Dolph IS technically a former WHC and, guess what? His mic skills aren't exactly at main eventer status, so they gave him Vickie. Why couldn't they do that for Shelton, who, while Dolph is a great wrestler no doubt, can wrestle circles around the former cheerleader.

McMahon actually didn't like MVP as a heel for some reason so that wasn't race. I think MVP would have got it if he was younger (kind of like R-Truth). If Henry was going to be a champ, it would have happened by now, he just doesn't have the tools to be a world champ. We don't know that Orton costed Kofi his push. I still think they messed up by putting Kofi against the top heel, therefore leaving him with no one but lesser heels and the title. They just didn't have anyone left after Orton for him.

Edge won the title after many thought he'd be a career midcarder; Christian did it too (although that's kinda just because of Edge tbh); Booker finally got his 6th reign in before leaving, who's to say Henry can't? I'm not guaranteeing it, but 'm not saying it's impossible. I never heard anything that said Vinnie Mac never liked MVP's heel run. Hell, he was a popular heel, so if this is true than WTF Vince? As for Kofi, do you remember his match against Orton at TLC 2009? Orton went for the punt to end the match and for whatever reason (I'm guessing he just didn't want to take the move), Kofi moved. Orton then promptly yelled "STUPID, STUPID!" loud enough for the cameras to pick up then angrily ended the match with an RKO. That's enough reason to believe Orton had a say in Kofi's de-push.

The Rock became The Rock because he was kind of talented. He is considered one of the top four in the WWE ever. You don't get their because of your family. Last time I checked, Somoan is not a color. Booker T won the world title and is black. He is not the only one who was supposed to win something and ending up losing. Drew McIntrye was supposed to be world champ by now, does that make the WWE racist against Scottish people, no.

Vince cares about money, not color. Khali can't wrestle at all, but since he is huge in India and could make Vince money, he got a World title. That right there is proof of what Vince loves, money

I never said Samoan was a color. I was referring to the Wild Samoan famliy dynasty in wrestling, which includes The Wild Samoans themselves, Rikishi, Umaga (RIP), Manu, the Uso's, and The Rock. And don't forget WWE is a very political place. It is possible to get to the top due to your bloodline or affiliations. Want proof? HHH starts dating Steph and now he's one of Vince's biggest stars ever. Sheamus is HHH's buddy and he gets a WWE championship run that no one ever expected. I'll be glad to name more superstars if you need me to. True, Drew (hey, I rhymed) was supposed to be a WHC by now, but then Tiffany bitchslapped him and caused a ruckus, which killed his push. That has nothing to do with Scots.

As for your last statement, Khali was world champ because in India he's huge, that's true. But lets not forget it's also because he's huge in real life too. Khali is Godzilla sized, and Vince loves him some big men (no homo, unless Vince is hiding something...). And why are you trying to give me proof that Vince loves $$? I've agreed that Vince has no race problem already.

 

[TheKingHustla]

I think it's interesting how many people take the fact that these guys are black that they are being held back, when in actuality, i honestly dont see them as stars. Mark Henry is big and strong and can kick some ass, but like Orton said recently, he's dangerous in the ring. Also, his mic skills are only so-so and if guys don't like wrestling against him, it's extremely hard to push him.

As far as R-Truth, he recently has had a star push, and if it wasn't for the CM Punk angle needing to be done, he'd still be around in the main event picture right now. He's getting his shot, and he's knocking them out of the park, the problem is, his in ring skills need some work. He's been getting better at it, but it still needs work.

Big Zeke is a stud, but he is lacking in charisma and in ring skills. Yeah, he's strong and cocked diesel like a freight truck, but it takes more than that. And besides, he's a champion right now. Is that someone who's being held back?

How about Kofi? He's been around and has been given chances, and no matter if you want to believe his push ended from Orton, or whatever else, he didn't make it as a regular main eventer. He is a steady midcarder, and while i admit he seems like a token champion, or a transition belt holder, he still gets his fair chances.

MVP was built up as the future of ECW when he came in. He was sooo over hyped, and he crashed and burned. It wasn't Vince's fault. MVP just made some bad behind the scenes decisions and screwed his career.

The Shelton thing, with people saying that he should have been champ, he was here during a time where there were more main eventers around who deserved the gold more than him. Now a days, there are very few definite main eventers in the business so it gives other people chances. As far as Dolph goes, that was a freak accident written that way for story purposes and basically didn't really count.

As far as other black WWE superstars, JTG, yada yada, they just don't have what it takes. I'm black, and I'm enjoying seeing Henry and Truth represent for us, and i also miss the days of European Champions like D-Lo Brown, bad ass tag team legends like Farooq, groups like the Nation and even powerhouses like Ahmad Johnson, but I also understand that this is a business, and most of the brothers in the E these days don't have what it takes.

The Booker T argument is weak as well because it was more of a fact that he was WCW then the fact that he was black. He was one of WCW's biggest stars, so do you honestly think that the WWF(E) would let one of the biggest stars of the rival brand come in a run it's show? It would have made the E look weak. It was more of a company thing then a race thing but many people don't want to see that. And now Booker is a commentator, and get's major push on the shows, doing the roulette wheel, interviewing Zeke after he won the title, getting to spinarooni basically whenever he feels like it. Getting in the ring at WM, even though he got stunned.

It doesn't always have to be about race, sometimes, it's actually about ability. If it's mic skills, or in ring skills, or all over marketability. I mean look at other guys who are white and are actually being held back, guys like Zack Ryder (don't worry, I'm not a Ryder-die guy or even a Zack Ryder fan, I actually hate the guy) who has a huge fan base, who gets no air time or even a chance to have air time. You can say the same things about tons of guys of all races and backgrounds. Maybe the answer isn't that Vince and the WWE are racist, but that those of us who feel that they are, should go and support the black guys like Truth and Henry. If more black people were to go to the shows, cheer loud for them, buy the merch, and other things like that, then they might get bigger pushes, but instead, we just sit here and complain about how Vince doesn't like blacks. Go support your people, if you want things to change. Stop buying Cena clothes and go and buy yourself a "The Truth is on fire" jacket instead. But no, that won't happen, cause you're too busy complaining.

The E is a business, ran by money, so spend some, and things will have to change.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Vince is not racist. The Rock was a huge star and he is black/samoan. If a guy is over then Vince pushes him. Green is the only color that matters in wrestling. The question SHOULD be, are pro wrestling fans racist? Why aren't more black guys over? Maybe it's the racist wrestling fans that don't buy a black dude's merch.

 

[Big Sexy]

The WWE is not racist. Yes Booker T should have won the title in 2003 but RVD should have as well and the case can be made for others. It wasn't race that caused that it was Triple H not losing to anybody black or white. Now let's look at the current black superstars on the roster.

Mark Henry- The average main roster career probably lasts less then 5 years. Henry has been in the WWE for 15 years. He has won numerous titles including the ECW title (which isn't a world title but close) and to this day he still gets the occasional main event push. Not everyone is destined to be a World Champion.

R Truth- When he came back to the WWE a few years ago he had a nice initial push. His push died down but he still was one of the most popular guys in the company and a solid mid carder that the younger fans loved. Recently he just had one of the best heel turns in recent memory and is now a high mid card, occasional main event type of guy.

Kofi Kingston- He is still very young and has had multiple mid card reigns. His career is off to a good start and the book is still open on him.

JTG- He was great in Cryme Tyme and they definitely should have won the tag titles at some point but not winning tag titles doesn't exactly scream racism. Without Cryme Tyme JTG isn't that great.

Big Zeke- Rising through the ranks currently as the IC champion. His career is still young and he is on a good path right now to become a main eventer at some point.

David Otunga- He is complete shit and I hope he gets fired.

 

[Mouthy Idiot]

More proof last night on Raw. 2 very capable black stars , kofi and truth are included in the 8 man tourny and BOTH BLACK guys get eliminated and for no reason. So Miz with 1 leg can beat Kofi , yeahhhhhhhh righttttttttt. Truth gets beat by rey mysterio whos got no heat anymore. Its WWE refusing to put over black guys as the CHAMPION.

 

[poppycock]

Kofi Kingston would make a horrible WWE Champion for me personally I could not care what colour he is. I would much prefer The Miz to get the belt again.. last year I did not see much in him but after his last title run I really enjoyed his involvement with Cena and the WWE Championship. R Truth would be a better Champion than Kofi but the fact he did not get through as nothing to do with him being black. I hope Mark Henry gets a run at some point this year or next so this stupid racist thing is put to rest because it is not true..

 

[boywithbluehanger]

This thread is so pointless because even though I do agree that Black wrestlers in general are held back in the WWE, it's not like a bunch of people outside of Blacks are going to be like "Oh wow! I guess you're right, I never thought about it that way!"

People see what they want to see. And I think it's glaringly obvious when wrestlers (outside of Blacks) who get pops or draw heat get the WWE or the Heavyweight championship in a ridiculously fast period of time or do not even physically look the part.

The way I see it, if Rey can get "big boy" titles a few times in the last 3 years, Mark Henry, Kofi and R-Truth should be able to as well. Each of them in the past 3 years have now had a timespan where they've gotten significant response from the fans. And it's not like Rey is any better on the mic than those guys..and for the exception of Henry, Kofi and Truth can be just as fun to watch in the ring.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

My hatred for this thread has pushed me to post in it... again.

This is all in your head(s). There is no conspiracy to hold down black men/women. It does not exist.

Name one black wrestler who hasn't gone as far as he should have -- name one. Seriously.

Shelton Benjamin? Could work one hell of a match, but might be the worst mic worker in the history of the wrestling business. Yes, he was that awful.

Kofi Kingston? This guy runs around like a chicken with his head cut off. Career mid-carder, at best.

R-Truth? This conspiracy gimmick has done wonders for him, but where's the story if he were to win a title? With the title, the conspiracy would be no more. What would we get then? More shitty matches from R-Truth, along with some mediocre mic work.

Mark Henry? He's going places, but he's old.

Bobby Lashley? He was pushed as far as he could have been, given the time he spent with the company. He was on the rise, a future WWE/WH champion. He decided to leave, so there is no conspiracy here. It doesn't exist, you nutjobs.

Elijah Burke? Right... because that's working out so well in TNA. He can't even main event while working in that dump. It was never going to happen.

Who else is there? No one. There has never been a black man in WWF/E who wasn't pushed right to where he belonged. Some left before they had a chance to make it big, some were injured, some didn't pan out, etc. There is no conspiracy, and I don't see a hint of racism. Is Vince racist? I have no idea, I don't know him. However, I do know one thing - no black deserving of a more important role has ever been held down by the WWE/F. That's an undeniable fact, rendering this debate nearly unnecessary.

 

[TheLambofDeth]

These threads never end well, because each side is was too biased to give a decent opinion. Either the WWE adamantly hates blacks with a passion, or Shelton Benjamin was "teh greatest wrassler of all timez". IMO the subject is alot more than people seem to note.

Is Vince racist? IDK, doubt it. I mean if a black wrestler were to get extremely over, rivaling Cena levels it's not like he would be depushed in spite. For the most part, if you get over (either on your own volition or via a storyline) you get pushed. So why is it guys like Ziggler and Swagger get world titlw reigns over superstars like MVP or Shelton Benjamin? Well sure they're both have great wrestling skill, bu the E' only cares about mic skill remember...can't have it both ways.

It's simple as a black wrestler you have to be that much better. Considering the majority and target demographic is white, the brass is going to be willing to take more chances with the majority, pending overwhelming circumstances.( Khali for example) What are the odds that of all the tryout, transitional and joke reigns, none of them just happen to be from black superstars.

Is Swagger a better wrestler than MVP? Yes, but there's no way even a week long reign from him could've been any worse than Swagger's unceremonious reign. Take Booker T for example. I know he was a WCW guys, but for his entire tenure any time he was anywhere near the title he was humiliated and made to be a joke, and once he did finally capture the wwe title he was just fed to Batistia. Which all things considered wouldn't be so glaring if he wasn't the only black superstar to win since 2006.

On the other side of the coin, wayyyy to many people expect for Vince to just give the title to a black guy just because. Let's be honest, if Zeke ever gets a world title reign, it's just because. Not pushing a black guy who deserves a spot is one thing, but for people who think Henry should get a reign just because he's black is stupid full a myriad of reasons. It's just not going to happen, and it doesn't need to.

Over the years how many black wrestlers really deserved a world title win? MVP? You could make the case. When he first debuted it seem widely possible, and he had the charisma. But during his entire run, timing was just always off. Still, even a one month transitional. Shelton Benjamin? Sure, Shelton had talent but he is one of the worst wrestlers on the mic...ever. He could've had a Swagger-esque reign...but i that anything to brag about?

The only black guy who I felt Vince really missed the boat on was Elijah Burke. He had the look, the ability, and he was charismatic enough. I legitimately though he could be a big part of the future of the company, given some time. And while I don't know the specifics about his release, he hasn't exactly set TNA on fire, there you go. We all know the story with Lashley, he would've been fed a title win, but he bailed. Truth? IDK worse superstars have won it, but honestly...c'mon. Kofi is an interesting case. Sure he's over, but not like "over" over. And he still has time. It's had to think he'll never win a world title.

Perhaps I contradicted myself a bit, but people really get unnecessarily heated over this type of thing. This isn't acting or an actual sport so stop comparing it to those realms of media. It's obvious the brass isn't out there trying to find the next token world champion, but at this point...who the hell would it be?

 

[JustASexyBoy]

Wow. Soo many posts and no mention of Nelson Frazier? I think he may have been the ultimate push for a Black WWE champion in his days.

 

[Burnout]

I love how this thread was made while pushes for several black stars were on-going.

Big Zeke, Truth and Mark Henry have all been receiving pushes recently. Last time I checked, unless they contracted vitiligo all of a sudden without me noticing, there all black. Zeke is IC champion and basically destroyed the Corre. Truth has been getting a ton of air time with his conspiracy and got title shot, he even beat Cena. Mark Henry has been pushed as a total monster, got some mic time, beat Randy Orton and destroyed Big Show several times. To add to these being pushed showing there is no preference to white people, each guy I just listed are a total bundle of total mediocreness in the ring, and bar Truth, it's the same on the mic. None of them deserve a major title though.

Other black performers in WWE being held back? Pffft, besides making a case for Kofi Kingston, well there is no case actually, he a multi time IC and US champion, and that's all he's worth at the moment. JTG? Shad? Going back to Elijah Burke and Shelton Benjamin? They all achieved what they were worth. Elijah was ok, Shelton was great in the ring, but he has the mic skills of Tyson Kidd, i.e; non existence. There has been success form black superstars, and it's continuing. You could be blue, purple of yellow, and if your good enough you'll get pushed, if you’re not, tough luck and it has nothing to do with your skin color.

 

[Nas pins jay-z]

One of reasons I think there hasn't been more black champs is most of the great black athletes just try other sports-most notably basketball and football. A lot of the wwe stars wrestled in hs and in college. That's not the wwe's fault. Also they still have given shots to blacks.Lashley would have got pushed to the moon if he not quit. Booker did fine winning multiple titles. Benjamin was given many chances-he beat triple h more than once!!! Zeke ang henry look like legit monsters. Truth has also become a major player. If they have the talent, vince will give them the ball. The only color he sees is green. By they way I'm black.

 

[bxbigshow]

Okay for anyone posting and referring to the "pushes" going on now (Truth/Henry), its null. The 1st post is only referring to the WWE/WHC belts. Thats it, no tv time/midcard titles, token tournament spots....THE BIG BOY BELTS. So please go somewhere with that "get what you can take" attitude.

Can anyone answer these questions?

*If Shelton being a great in-ring worker, over with fans, yet bland on the mic is undeserving of a transitional/tryout run as a BIG BOY BELT HOLDER. Why did Jeff Hardy get a shot? He was 'great' in the ring, over, yet horrid in promos...but he gets the BBB.

*Kofi Kingston somehow equals botchfest, not great on the mic, waay over with kids...but somehow is "undeserving" of the BBB. But once again Jeff Hardy and RVD get the BBB. Why?

*Everyone refers to Bobby Lashley as "WWE would've given it to him, but HE left". But where in Vince's track record shows that an African-American would've had the BBB anyways? Vince has nothing in his backround to say that Lashley was a lock for the BBB. No one would be surprised if Lashley stayed this long and never got the WWE/WHC title. (and for those who want to answer that with The Rock, please see next question...)

*Why is it for African Americans the Rock is the bar that everyone must meet in order to deserve a run with the BBB? When for non-blacks a Swagger/Sheamus/Christian/Khali/Rey is enough? If every black baseball player had to be Jackie Robinson on the field to qualify to be on the field...blacks would've been back out of baseball within the decade. Its a convienent EXCUSE used to justify a bias. "Bring me a black man that can do what Dwayne did." has been used a few times on this thread. I ask:

*Can you bring me a non-black first time WWE/WHC champ since The Rock's last run (2002) that can equal Rock in every way? (Mic Skills, In-Ring, Marketing)

I'll answer for you: John Cena, thats it. And only when we get topics like these the IWC admits that. Any other time: he's stale, can't wrestle, sucks, bringing down the business, been on top too long. It's very hypocritical of you really.

So to sum it up. since 2002 (Rock's last reign) only Booker T won a World Title (Big Boy Belt), but for black people Rock is the be-all-end-all. But WWE has had approx. 18 first time BBB holders and non of them black. And only one of them (Cena) can "rival" The Rock.

Isn't that odd that WWE can tryout, transition, reward for service 18 non-blacks since 2002 but not 1 African American?

 

[Wonder]

Okay for anyone posting and referring to the "pushes" going on now (Truth/Henry), its null. The 1st post is only referring to the WWE/WHC belts. Thats it, no tv time/midcard titles, token tournament spots....THE BIG BOY BELTS. So please go somewhere with that "get what you can take" attitude.

Can anyone answer these questions?

*If Shelton being a great in-ring worker, over with fans, yet bland on the mic is undeserving of a transitional/tryout run as a BIG BOY BELT HOLDER. Why did Jeff Hardy get a shot? He was 'great' in the ring, over, yet horrid in promos...but he gets the BBB.

*Kofi Kingston somehow equals botchfest, not great on the mic, waay over with kids...but somehow is "undeserving" of the BBB. But once again Jeff Hardy and RVD get the BBB. Why?

*Everyone refers to Bobby Lashley as "WWE would've given it to him, but HE left". But where in Vince's track record shows that an African-American would've had the BBB anyways? Vince has nothing in his backround to say that Lashley was a lock for the BBB. No one would be surprised if Lashley stayed this long and never got the WWE/WHC title. (and for those who want to answer that with The Rock, please see next question...)

*Why is it for African Americans the Rock is the bar that everyone must meet in order to deserve a run with the BBB? When for non-blacks a Swagger/Sheamus/Christian/Khali/Rey is enough? If every black baseball player had to be Jackie Robinson on the field to qualify to be on the field...blacks would've been back out of baseball within the decade. Its a convienent EXCUSE used to justify a bias. "Bring me a black man that can do what Dwayne did." has been used a few times on this thread. I ask:

*Can you bring me a non-black first time WWE/WHC champ since The Rock's last run (2002) that can equal Rock in every way? (Mic Skills, In-Ring, Marketing)

I'll answer for you: John Cena, thats it. And only when we get topics like these the IWC admits that. Any other time: he's stale, can't wrestle, sucks, bringing down the business, been on top too long. It's very hypocritical of you really.

So to sum it up. since 2002 (Rock's last reign) only Booker T won a World Title (Big Boy Belt), but for black people Rock is the be-all-end-all. But WWE has had approx. 18 first time BBB holders and non of them black. And only one of them (Cena) can "rival" The Rock.

Isn't that odd that WWE can tryout, transition, reward for service 18 non-blacks since 2002 but not 1 African American?

Hey kid, you're really getting in character with Truth right there, with that conspiracy.

African American's do get SHOTS, and they do get TITLES.

Booker T was a 5 time WCW Champion coming into the WWE. First feud we had was with the Rock. 2 years later, he was main eventing Wrestlemania with HHH. Few years later, after feuds with Angle and Cena, and US Title wins, he won the King of the Ring and then the World Heavyweight Championship, and feuded with Batista, one of WWE top dogs at the time.

Shelton, as you said, was a great in ring performer, and for his accomplishments, he has many Intercontinental and Tag Team Title wins. You know why he never won any World Title and why he left? He didn't have personality and he didn't have mic skills. It ain't just about the ring skills in this business.

Koki Kingston is a former Intercontinental, United States champion and Tag Team Championships, and he doesn't have very great mic skills. He already won all that and even feuded with Orton and in one of his first PPV matches, he beated Jericho, and he's been only with the company for 3 years or less.

Bobby Lashley, hum... King of the Ring finalist, former ECW and US champion had a feud with Cena, almost won the title and left after 2 years with the company.

Truth is almost 40 years old. He wrestled in about a year for the WWE in 2000/2001, then left and went for TNA, where he was very successful. He returned to the WWE, and becamed US champion. Now, it seems to me, that he's getting one hell of a push. Destroyed Morrison, defeated Mysterio on OTL, had a feud with Cena, and keeps getting much attention on Raw.

Mark Henry, is probably, the one thing we can agree about. The guy is been with the company for almost 15 years, and if at that time, we would have the push is getting now, he maybe would become one of the best ever. Still, former ECW Champion, had a feud with Batista and Angle for the title, and wrestled Taker at Mania.

Oh, and don't forget about Ron Simmons, former WCW Champion, former Tag Team Champion and one half of one of the most famous Tag Teams ever, the APA.

JTG and Shad are former Tag Team Champions, and neither one of them, ever deserved a push.

...

 

[bxbigshow]

Hey kid, you're really getting in character with Truth right there, with that conspiracy.

African American's do get SHOTS, and they do get TITLES.

Booker T was a 5 time WCW Champion coming into the WWE. First feud we had was with the Rock. 2 years later, he was main eventing Wrestlemania with HHH. Few years later, after feuds with Angle and Cena, and US Title wins, he won the King of the Ring and then the World Heavyweight Championship, and feuded with Batista, one of WWE top dogs at the time.

Shelton, as you said, was a great in ring performer, and for his accomplishments, he has many Intercontinental and Tag Team Title wins. You know why he never won any World Title and why he left? He didn't have personality and he didn't have mic skills. It ain't just about the ring skills in this business.

Koki Kingston is a former Intercontinental, United States champion and Tag Team Championships, and he doesn't have very great mic skills. He already won all that and even feuded with Orton and in one of his first PPV matches, he beated Jericho, and he's been only with the company for 3 years or less.

Bobby Lashley, hum... King of the Ring finalist, former ECW and US champion had a feud with Cena, almost won the title and left after 2 years with the company.

Truth is almost 40 years old. He wrestled in about a year for the WWE in 2000/2001, then left and went for TNA, where he was very successful. He returned to the WWE, and becamed US champion. Now, it seems to me, that he's getting one hell of a push. Destroyed Morrison, defeated Mysterio on OTL, had a feud with Cena, and keeps getting much attention on Raw.

Mark Henry, is probably, the one thing we can agree about. The guy is been with the company for almost 15 years, and if at that time, we would have the push is getting now, he maybe would become one of the best ever. Still, former ECW Champion, had a feud with Batista and Angle for the title, and wrestled Taker at Mania.

Oh, and don't forget about Ron Simmons, former WCW Champion, former Tag Team Champion and one half of one of the most famous Tag Teams ever, the APA.

JTG and Shad are former Tag Team Champions, and neither one of them, ever deserved a push.

...

Its nice to know that you didn't READ anything that I actually wrote. I am only talking about the BIG BOY BELTS...IC/US/Tag were not the topic from the OP and were not the topic my post.

And you still didn't answer my questions as to why what is good for the goose (Hardy/RVD, etc.) isn't good for the gander (Shelton/Kofi, etc.)

or to simplfy for you...

Why is the things that hold black wrestlers back OVERLOOKED when it comes to non-blacks? And specifically the examples given. IN REGARDS TO THE TOP TWO TITLES!!!
Lashley...what proof do you have that he was going to be THE ONE? When WWE hasn't pushed any black wrestler to the TOP TITLE since Booker T. He would've been kept back to no one's surprise.

Never touched on my Rock point.

And as for R-Truth, Ron Simmons, Cryme Tyme all whom are unrelated to this topic because once again TOP TWO TITLES.

R-Truth while I never felt he could carry the company his current push would still get him no where close to sniffing the leather of the WWE Championship belt. Hell he was tossed aside for CM Punk's swan song, while it might've worked on WWE's behalf, Truth will never be as hot again as he was at Capt. Punishment. So his closest chance to get the BBB is now gone.

And Cryme Tyme never won the Tag Titles...they feuded for them, stole the belts in stereotypical fashion, but never won them. So they're not former Champions.

I'm not saying that every black wrestler needs to be WWE/World Champion. But for every EXCUSE you give for the few that could've been. I can name 1 if not 2 nonblack wrestlers who are the equivalent to them that were WWE/World Champion.

Mark Henry/Lashley (big but no mic skills) = Batista/Great Khali/Kane's 1st run
Shelton Benjiman (no mic skills) = Jeff Hardy/RVD
Kofi Kingston (sloppy in-ring/Orton politic'd as unsafe) = RVD/Miz
MVP (couldn't draw) = Sheamus/Swagger

But once again its nice to know you can answer a question with information thats completely irrelevant to the question...good job!

 

[Bigrog25]

To the op, it's always been a well known "secret" Vince doesn't put over black guys as world champs, but in his defense, that's how all the promoters think/thought for the most part with the exception of bill watts.

 

[Taker Sucks]

Being a fan of the WWE for years I have always found it hard to stomach the lack of variety in the company... On 1 hand the E has been opening up with Kofi, Shelton, and MVP... but at that same token only 1 of those wrestlers are still with the company. I know Vince is not racist ,but I think its less the WWE but more the WWE universe .

I never will forget when I went to my first WWE event in (Night Of Champions) 2008... My dad took my brother to see The Rock when he 1st won the WHC so this was a long time since he even thought about the WWE... but his eyes lit up when he saw the ECW champ at that time was Mark Henry..His exact words (It took them this long to find another black man to push) even though Book had won it in between it still matters.. The WWE universe that goes to shows by merch and watch DVDs is mostly white... It has and probly will always be this way... If we got a black WWE/WHC champ or more variety with World Titles we would have more African Americans after the age of 8 still watch the WWE....

 

[Hazardous]

How this thread has not been trashed is a modern day mystery equal to that of the Sphinx..

So, you're saying that Vince is a racist, but only towards black people. He's cool with Samoans, and Mexicans, and Indians.. But not Blacks. Oh, and Booker T doesn't count, correct? Okay.. As a "white man" as you claim, I think you reeaallyyy need to stop. Just.. Stop. You're embarrassing yourself, and your race.
Mark Henry can't draw a dime.
R-Truth would be nothing more than a transitional Champ.
Kofi has no, and I mean NO Mic skills.
Big Zekk... Well, Time will tell, but Again, I see a transitional Champ.

Roddy Piper was never WWE champ, so does that mean Vince doesn't like Canadian's who pretend to be from other countries as well? OHH! must be since Santino will never be WWE champ either! See how stupid that sounds? Why you think that in order to be fair, every race should have the title, is beyond me. The title doesn't mean shit when it comes to the WWE HOF. Look how many people got in without ONE WWE title.

 

[Wonder]

Good point there , Tim.

If we're talking about racism, then this thread shouldn't be just talking about African Americans. There were and are still a lot of stereotypical gimmicks in WWE, but that doesn't mean that they will never wore or will be successful.

Junkyard Dog, Iron Sheik, Jimmy Snuka, Tony Atlas, Rocky Johnson, Peter Maivia, Koko B Ware, etc... - Clearly none of them are white, however, they are in the Hall of Fame. Interesting fact? ONLY ONE OF THEM HAS EVER WON THE WWE TITLE.

 

[Taker Sucks]

Kofi has no, and I mean NO Mic skills.

I have a issue with this. There have been many wrestlers who little to no mic skills being WWE/WHC champion and less wrestling skills then Kofi. He is overwhelming loved by fans of all ages and demographics. In the ring he can put up with the best the E has to offer. Not to mention his Mic Skills are no where as bad as you make them seem. Kofi has above avg skills on the mic and he would be even better if the E gave him a microphone I promise. Mark my words by the end of '12 Kofi will be a World Champion for a long time...

 

[I_Like_All_Wrestling]

I don't really want to add to this giant thread, but I feel I have to make some points. First with Mark Henry. They guy is awful. Just awful. In the ring, on the mic, awful. Most characters who are just strong guys or monsters are. And do you really think that Vince is so racist that he'd sign Henry to a $10million+ and his big plan is just to not give him the title. Also remember, NOT EVERYONE CAN BE THE CHAMPION.

As for the The Rock, one of the biggest stars in wrestling history who is in the main event of Wrestlemania, he doesn't count because he's "not black enough?" Come on.

Why did The Miz (who I'm not a fan of) who has been on numerous MTV shows and is recognizable by people outside of a WWE audience get pushed? Why did Sheamus, who it has been noted for a long time has been a friend and project of both HHH and Vince McMahon get pushed? Why did Jack Swagger who was being pushed as a Kurt Angle clone get pushed? Come on, use your brain.

Rey Mysterio who is Mexican has been champ and is always a top guy. Eddie was going to be champ. Del Rio will be champ and is a top guy now. Jinder Mahal is being pushed on Smackdown, and Khali has been champion. So what you're really saying is not that Vinve is racist, but that Vince is racist against black people. Let's take a look at that...

Otunga, who might be even worse than Henry is a staple on TV. R-Truth is in the main event. The Rock in the the main event at Wrestlemania. Ezekial Jackson is the IC champ. Kharma was getting pushed like crazy before she had to leave. Teddy Long is in charge of Smackdown and has been for years. Booker T is an announcer, form multi-title holder, and host on Tough Enough.

I understand what the original poster was trying to say, but just accept that you're wrong.

 

[RicoLen]

See, the fact that this thread even exist and is getting taken seriously backs up my opinion that Mark Henry needs to start a new Nation of Domination, and use this as a storyline. That Vince McMahon is holding back the other black athletes in the WWE. R-Truth would be a perfect addition to the group, he's already talking about how it's a conspiracy to keep him down. They just need to add a couple more guys. Otunga would be another good one, but he'd probably have to split from Joe Hennig first.

 

[Derf]

I don't think Black Men are being held back simply for being black men. They're not being held back anymore then several white superstars IMO. In my eyes, it takes ALOT for a wrestler to reach the main event level, and a handful of guys that have gotten there I don't believe deserved it, most of em are white.

I look at the roster, and Mark Henry is the only black guy I believe deserves main event status. Most others have horrible mic skills or in ring skills. R-Truth has both, but he just doesn't scream "Main Event" due to his gimmick. Henry deserves a push, and now that he's back on Smackdown, I truely believe he's getting a legit push, hopefully some title matchs come with said push. I don't care if he wins or not, but he's getting pushed, that disproves that black men don't get pushed. Rock was pushed, Booker was pushed, even Lashley was pushed, and he was a shoe in future Champ.

 

[therockiswwf]

And you still didn't answer my questions as to why what is good for the goose (Hardy/RVD, etc.) isn't good for the gander (Shelton/Kofi, etc.)

Hardy wasn't supposed to be pushed, but he got so over (Way more than Kofi/Shelton) that they were forced to do it. RVD was also more popular than Kofi/Shelton and he really only got the WWE title to promote ECW.

R-Truth while I never felt he could carry the company his current push would still get him no where close to sniffing the leather of the WWE Championship belt. Hell he was tossed aside for CM Punk's swan song, while it might've worked on WWE's behalf, Truth will never be as hot again as he was at Capt. Punishment. So his closest chance to get the BBB is now gone.

Truth wasn't going to win it anyways. They were thinking of pushing him way before this but they didn't because of his age. His age is why he will never get the title.

Mark Henry/Lashley (big but no mic skills) = Batista/Great Khali/Kane's 1st run

Lashley was MAIN EVENTING before he left. He was almost a lock to win the WWE title at least once. Mark Henry is just a big fat monster, that is it. Khali is huge in India, Henry not so much. Kane's 1st reign made no sense. Batista was over as hell, so it didn't matter that he couldn't talk.

Shelton Benjiman (no mic skills) = Jeff Hardy/RVD

RVD - Over as hell.
Hardy - Over as super hell
Shelton - Got hot, then injured, never got over again. The last few years, he wasn't over at all.

Kofi Kingston (sloppy in-ring/Orton politic'd as unsafe) = RVD/Miz

WE DON'T KNOW THAT ORTON DID THAT. All we know is Orton got pissed off during one match. Do we know Orton went into Vince's office and whine to Vince about Kofi, no. RVD was more over than Kofi and RVD had been over for a long time. Miz wasn't sloppy in the ring, he just didn't do a lot of moves. He has improved a lot in-ring wise.

MVP (couldn't draw) = Sheamus/Swagger

And your point is?

So by your logic, if some guy didn't deserve the title, then a black guy should get the title because he is just as bad. Black people are not the only ones that have never held the WWE titles.

I also hate the people who say, the audience is white so the audience wants white people. That is just plain stupid. Vince wants money, fans want entertainment. White people loved The Rock (myself included) because he was (is) entertaining. Cena is loved not because he is white, but because he is entertaining.

I hate this topic.