Fair enough, but I think they were planning on doing the shoot promo when they gave the spot to Punk, and he obviously wasn't going to fuck that up given his real life feelings towards the company. But we can agree on the fact that it was NOT due to race. People like to ignore that, in spite of his hilariously entertaining character that he has right now, Truth still isn't much in the ring. Punk, on the other hand, could potentially deliver a match of the year candidate with Cena. He's also better on the mic and a better all around performer than Truth; so yeah, he deserved to have the spot anyway. Punk hasn't been pushed well during many points of his WWE career despite clearly being one of the best in the company, but no one thinks WWE has something against straight edge people.
Mark Henry and other Black WWE stars being held back.
- Thread starter Mouthy Idiot
- Start date
In the last 16 years, there have been 24 different WWE champions. I haven't included the Big Gold Belt in that time scale because it was with WWE for a good amount of time. Among those 24 are absolute legends of the industry: Michaels, Austin, Taker, Jericho, Angle. I am struggling to think of any black wrestler who has been a WWE mainstay in that period who could have lived with any of those guys or who can credibly say that they should have been a world champ.
The only one I can think of is Booker T and, guess what, he had a WHC reign. Are your only suggestions really Mark Henry, R-Truth and Big Zeke?! That really defeats your own argument.
If a black wrestler who could do it in the ring, could sell merchandise and who was over enought with the fans had come along during that period- they would have got a title reign. Simple as that. IMO, nobody did.
Sheamus was an experiment. And MVP may have sold more, but he was a face at the time. Again, you're throwing the context of the decision in the booking out the window in favor of race supposedly being the only determining factor. That's foolish logic. There were no black heels at the time who were better than Sheamus, so that explains that.
nellyismyname
Dark Match Jobber
Two things amuse me about this topic, the first thing is how people like to talk about how not all of black wrestlers have been a WWE or World heavyweight champion.But what about Hispanics, Asians, Samoans, Arabs, Indians, etc.Not alot of people of this Ethnic groups have held the WWE title but you rarely hear people getting upset that there have only been 2 Hispanic world Champions, 1 full Samoan champion, 1 Indian champion, 0 Arab champions and 0 champions of Asian descent.But for some reason people like to focus on why there has only been two black world champions in the history of the WWE.Another thing that cracks me up is how some of you claim that since the audience at wrestling shows is mostly made up of whites, they will not accept a black world champion.I don't believe that is true, I mean look at professional boxing, most of that audience is white people and they have had black boxers like Muhammad Ali, Evander Holyfield, Mike Jones, Roy Jones Jr, who were big office draws in the boxing world and who in their primes broke PPV buyrate records and sold out shows, so I seriously doubt that is true.I mean a couple of years ago Evander Holyfield made an apperence on Saturday Nights Main Event when MVp was feuding with Matt Hardy a few years ago and he got probaly got a better crowd reaction then half the roster that night.
jacdnwarrior
Championship Contender
Talent can suggest anything to the bosses. Often times creative and Vince refuse to listen. The creative team came up with the Rock moniker and approached him with it not the other way around.
Booker T was a complete waste. He isn't great in the ring but he does put on good performances with the right performer in the ring and he is really underrated on the mike. If he had gotten the belt at WM over H, it could have done wonders for him. They passed on that. Gave him a stupid King gimmick and had him on SD, then brought him to Raw, where he was never champ and then he was released.
Cryme Time is passed over when they were the only real legitimate team in the division, so DX coul have the belts, then JeriShow and ShowMiz. None of these guys needed the belts. Cryme Time should have had at least 3 or 4 title runs before they were disbanded.
You want to tell me no black performer is as good in the ring, or on the mike, or have the IT factor to be champion I can give you a list of performers who got the belts and didn't have those qualitites. If you want to argue that other performers from ethnic backgrounds are ignored in getting top spots, make the forum topic and I'll be there to make the case for a number of performers of other backgrounds to get a shot. If you want to argue that blacks aren't marketable, I say bullshit. Shawn Michaels, arguably one of the greatest performers ever seen, couldn't draw and he has the mike ability, in-ring ability, gets a shit load of tv time yet he is a mulitple world champ and can't draw. Batista can't work, can't talk, has a look, a multiple world champ. Cena marketable, solid on the mike, work in the ring isn't overwhelming, multiple champ. You look at the number of people who've been the top of the roster and you'll see they have a very limited view on who can be champ for them and that means very few blacks, hispanic, etc there and that's a little disturbing to me especially for a company that claims to want to gain a wider audience.
Mate, I think Kofi is one of the best superstars to watch. The reason he will not be Heavyweight Champion or WWE Champion is moreso to do with his size. It's just not credible having a borderline cruiserweight as Heavyweight/WWE Champion. With the exception of Rey Mysterio, which obviously had huge crowd appeal, those two championships really should be for the larger athletes.
Mark Henry new persona is much better than his previous 'face' persona's. It is far more believable, and I can certainly see him having a crack at Orton or Sheamus for the Heavyweight title.
But you are right with this thread, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You only need to go back say 8 or so years to the Nation of Domination. A whole group of black men that had a lot of t.v time and some of the most memorable sketches with Dx.
It would further this case of suppression, you need to come up with some credible superstars that aren't getting a fair go.
Hey Mouthy Idiot!
You're actually pretty good troll xD
This same guy has done these similar threats, that just make people angry, because their point is so stubid. He's done Undertaker bashing threat and etc.
We all now, that anybody isn't held pack by skincolour.
Kofi Kingston is allways mentioned about not getting push because of being black. Yeah guy is good in the ring, but he really have's no mic skills. And there's no way to get main event push without those.
Ezekiel Jackson is another example. Guess what, he's now IC-Champion and yeah I know, that Kofi has been IC-Champion also, but this's his first reign and I'm pretty sure, that he gets to main event-scene some day.
Then we have Mark Henry, now his actually getting push now. Yeah he's been in WWE long and haven't got big push to main event, but that's got nothing to do with his skin colour. I mean look at Kane, he deputed 1997 and after his deput, he got no big push before last year, just like Mark Henry this year. So Mark Henry can actually be compared to Kane, with their careers (exept IMO Kane was better wrestler in all categories, then him)
And finally R-thruth, couple mounths ago, he just sucked, in every fucking terriotory. And that absolutely had nothing to do with his skincolour. But he really had improved lately, and now I actually don't skip parts where he is. And he is getting a push! Even if he's black.
So does anyone really here agree with the OP? Mouthy Idiot just happens to be a troll
You're actually pretty good troll xD
This same guy has done these similar threats, that just make people angry, because their point is so stubid. He's done Undertaker bashing threat and etc.
We all now, that anybody isn't held pack by skincolour.
Kofi Kingston is allways mentioned about not getting push because of being black. Yeah guy is good in the ring, but he really have's no mic skills. And there's no way to get main event push without those.
Ezekiel Jackson is another example. Guess what, he's now IC-Champion and yeah I know, that Kofi has been IC-Champion also, but this's his first reign and I'm pretty sure, that he gets to main event-scene some day.
Then we have Mark Henry, now his actually getting push now. Yeah he's been in WWE long and haven't got big push to main event, but that's got nothing to do with his skin colour. I mean look at Kane, he deputed 1997 and after his deput, he got no big push before last year, just like Mark Henry this year. So Mark Henry can actually be compared to Kane, with their careers (exept IMO Kane was better wrestler in all categories, then him)
And finally R-thruth, couple mounths ago, he just sucked, in every fucking terriotory. And that absolutely had nothing to do with his skincolour. But he really had improved lately, and now I actually don't skip parts where he is. And he is getting a push! Even if he's black.
So does anyone really here agree with the OP? Mouthy Idiot just happens to be a troll
berlinbrawler
Lovable Curmudgeon
It's incredible that this topic keeps popping up over and over and over and over again. This is even more tiring than the "Cena is overrated"-debate.
In these politically correct days, people are going to spot racism in just about anything someone (or some organization) does or doesn't do. The top spot is not a black man? That's racism! The top spot IS a black man? Well, that can only be an affirmative action ruse in order not to look racist!
Here's a novel thought: How come a WOMAN has never been WWE Champion? I find that's sexism of the worst kind! Only one woman ever achieved merely the Intercontinental championship, and that was only because even her porn movies can barely convince you that she actually IS a woman.
Also there has never been a German, Indian or Chinese WWE Champion! Hell, not even one from Kuala Lumpur. RACISM! Don't get me started on midgets! They never got higher than the Cruiserweight Championship. Fascism of the worst kind!
Has there ever been a Scientologist WWE champion? I don't think so! The WWE is clearly undermining religious freedom!
In fact I think it's insulting that there has never been a WWE Champion below the age of 22. Doesn't that send a clear message that the WWE hates children? Not to mention the elderly. Have you noticed how they never have any 65 year old World Champions? How dare they?!
And the dead, don't get me started on the dead! How many championships of any rank has a dead person won in the WWE? I'll do you one better, how many MATCHES has a dead person won in the WWE? As a matter of fact, the WWE won't even EMPLOY dead people. And the last time I checked the dead are the absolute majority on the entire fucking planet! This is discrimination of the worst kind!
The WWE = pure evil!!!!!!
But I digress. The black man. It always comes down to this:
GIve me a convincing list of black performers being held back. HOWEVER: Just because someone isn't the WWE champion, doesn't mean he is being held back, ok? Some people simply aren't that good performers or entertainers.
So give me a convincing list of black guys who underachieve(d) in the WWE given their potential. I have yet to see one that makes me join the WWE=KKK bandwagon.
In these politically correct days, people are going to spot racism in just about anything someone (or some organization) does or doesn't do. The top spot is not a black man? That's racism! The top spot IS a black man? Well, that can only be an affirmative action ruse in order not to look racist!
Here's a novel thought: How come a WOMAN has never been WWE Champion? I find that's sexism of the worst kind! Only one woman ever achieved merely the Intercontinental championship, and that was only because even her porn movies can barely convince you that she actually IS a woman.
Also there has never been a German, Indian or Chinese WWE Champion! Hell, not even one from Kuala Lumpur. RACISM! Don't get me started on midgets! They never got higher than the Cruiserweight Championship. Fascism of the worst kind!
Has there ever been a Scientologist WWE champion? I don't think so! The WWE is clearly undermining religious freedom!
In fact I think it's insulting that there has never been a WWE Champion below the age of 22. Doesn't that send a clear message that the WWE hates children? Not to mention the elderly. Have you noticed how they never have any 65 year old World Champions? How dare they?!
And the dead, don't get me started on the dead! How many championships of any rank has a dead person won in the WWE? I'll do you one better, how many MATCHES has a dead person won in the WWE? As a matter of fact, the WWE won't even EMPLOY dead people. And the last time I checked the dead are the absolute majority on the entire fucking planet! This is discrimination of the worst kind!
The WWE = pure evil!!!!!!
But I digress. The black man. It always comes down to this:
GIve me a convincing list of black performers being held back. HOWEVER: Just because someone isn't the WWE champion, doesn't mean he is being held back, ok? Some people simply aren't that good performers or entertainers.
So give me a convincing list of black guys who underachieve(d) in the WWE given their potential. I have yet to see one that makes me join the WWE=KKK bandwagon.
mrwilliams061088
Dark Match Jobber
Do I think guys should be pushed just because they're black? No I don't. I'm not saying that JTG deserves to be a world champ. I'm saying that Kofi Kingston and r-thruth are just as talented as john cena and the miz. It's so crazy that just because vince has had 2 black world champions in like 20 years people say "he's had black world champions". I'm talking now, 2011. Then you have guys like mvp,benjamin, and lashley who people say "they would've gotten pushed if they hadn't left" Well look at how they were treated, can you blame them for leaving? Shelton Benjamin was the best athlete on the roster at the time and never came close to even a world title match. Wrestling is a white business, yes I get it, but if the great khali was world champ I think kofi and r-truth deserve a brief run. Enough said
berlinbrawler
Lovable Curmudgeon
Ok, first of all, to say Kofi Kingston and R-Truth are as talented as Cena and the Miz is about as clueless an opinion as I've ever heard. I'm sorry, not trying to diss anyone, but this flat out is not true.
Let's see.
JTG, Kofi Kingston, R-truth, MVP, Shelton Benjamin, Bobby Lashley. Let's add Mark Henry to the list. And why not, also Viscera/Mabel/Big Daddy V, Mo, Shad Gaspard, Godfather, D-Von Dudley, Virgil, D-Lo Brown, Tony Atlas, Maven, Junkyard Dog, Koko B. Ware, Ron Simmons and Kamala.
Can you really make a straight-faced argument for any of these guys that they deserved the top spot in the WWE?
Lashley had zero personality, but yes, he would have become champion eventually had he stayed.
Kofi Kingston may yet get there. Not because he is so great, but because the WWE is approaching a talent crisis.
But seriously, that's it.
R-truth? Get real. Goofy jumping filler guy. And "Little Jimmy" is already getting stale.
Shelton Benjamin? If wrestling was real, sure, but it's largely about entertainment and sorry, he comes very very short personality-wise.
Ron Simmons? Great guy, just not a great star, and he was around in a time when there were some real megastars. There was no room for a minor star like him, and that was a simple business call (well, at least he had a short run in WCW as champ).
So I don't know. I often hear people complaining that black men are being held back in the WWE, but I have yet to hear a convincing case for any specific black performer. It's being generalized while overlooking that maybe there is another reason.
And EVEN IF, say, Mark Henry is being held back. Let's say making him champion would not be a disaster business-wise. It still would not make the WWE racist because in the WWE a LOT of wrestlers are being held back, period. Most of them are -*GASP*- white. If he was being held back, it would be because he is one of many wrestlers being held back, not because he is a BLACK wrestler.
See, statements like this are what cause these "racism" arguments to lose credibility more than anything, and they only really serve to prove the opposite point that WWE rewards who is actually better. Because there's no way that Kingston and Truth are as good as Cena and Miz. I would like to see the argument as to how they are, even though I surely won't agree with it, because to me that logic just screams "I don't actually know what I'm talking about."
I also kind of have to laugh at your notion that MVP, Benjamin, and Lashley weren't pushed to the hilt multiple times. They tried to make all three guys main eventers at one point or another. MVP was clearly being groomed for a top face spot, and would have gotten one if they hadn't fucked up his push and turned him cookie cutter. But as I said before, they did that with Orton too and it set back his main event face push for another six fucking years. Benjamin went over Triple H cleanly three times, and then they tried other things to give him personality like his "momma" and the "Gold Standard" gimmick. None of them worked. Why? Because he sucked. And don't get me started on Bobby fucking Lashley, a guy who they pushed way more than he deserved and who they tried to make the next Austin in a feud with Vince that seemed to last forever. But yeah, he had no charisma, and then he decided to leave the company because of his easily replaceable wife. Go figure.
What I find strange in threads like these is the sheer pushing aside of most actual talents black performers have.
Kofi can't talk and is all botches? False, not to mention he outsells most other faces, so that scraps the 'he isn't marketable' argument as well.
Truth is forced to dumb down his current gimmick, but does that make it any less true? He dances and sings for years for ...a US belt and some tag runs...meanwhile, a white guy who emulates predominantly black culture becomes the face of the company. Hm...
Henry has been historically ribbed and screwed with during most of his tenure within the wwe. Just before this latest push, noone recalls the guy standing out waiting for someone to challenge to close a house show and nothing coming for 30 minutes? I'd like to hear about more ribs like this on other starts, because...I really haven't.
Shelton could have easily been pushed in some way that just had him not have to talk much. Sup Jomo.
MVP....fucking duh, here. Criminal record don't mean shit, wwe doesn't spend THAT much time overseas and he could've gotten a working visa like he has now.
Rock was an anomaly who was so over vkm would have been breaking his own toes to not push the guy. So don't use rock as an example...ever. Fuck race, rock is just an ANOMALY.
Booker T was made a champ in WCW...you know..where mister damn was the first pro wrestler champ who was black. Despite that, he dealt with massive bs in wwe and we all so quickly forget hhh's straight up racist self during that feud. 'Your people aren't supposed to be champions...so come on...dance for me.' Yes, I get kayfabe....but hey...if homo is such a problem...and disrespecting women is as well, that should've gotten someone fucked over front AND backstage.
Kofi can't talk and is all botches? False, not to mention he outsells most other faces, so that scraps the 'he isn't marketable' argument as well.
Truth is forced to dumb down his current gimmick, but does that make it any less true? He dances and sings for years for ...a US belt and some tag runs...meanwhile, a white guy who emulates predominantly black culture becomes the face of the company. Hm...
Henry has been historically ribbed and screwed with during most of his tenure within the wwe. Just before this latest push, noone recalls the guy standing out waiting for someone to challenge to close a house show and nothing coming for 30 minutes? I'd like to hear about more ribs like this on other starts, because...I really haven't.
Shelton could have easily been pushed in some way that just had him not have to talk much. Sup Jomo.
MVP....fucking duh, here. Criminal record don't mean shit, wwe doesn't spend THAT much time overseas and he could've gotten a working visa like he has now.
Rock was an anomaly who was so over vkm would have been breaking his own toes to not push the guy. So don't use rock as an example...ever. Fuck race, rock is just an ANOMALY.
Booker T was made a champ in WCW...you know..where mister damn was the first pro wrestler champ who was black. Despite that, he dealt with massive bs in wwe and we all so quickly forget hhh's straight up racist self during that feud. 'Your people aren't supposed to be champions...so come on...dance for me.' Yes, I get kayfabe....but hey...if homo is such a problem...and disrespecting women is as well, that should've gotten someone fucked over front AND backstage.
Are you really buying into Truth's gimmick that much to the point where you agree with it in reality? Putting their respective "rapper" gimmicks aside, Cena is more talented than Truth in literally EVERY possible way: in the ring, on the mic, charismatically, etc. There is not one single thing that Truth has over Cena that would make me want to make him the face of my company. He was over as a rapper but he never had nearly the potential that Cena did, and there's no way that he could have evolved into the mega star that Cena is today.
Is your best argument for Henry that he's been "ribbed and screwed"? Really? How about how he sucks in the ring, and the only real thing the guy has going for him is that he's big and a monster? Also, are we going to completely ignore the monster push he's getting right now? Meanwhile we have Indians like Khali and Russians like Kozlov who are stuck as midcarders' sidekicks. Oh, but I forgot, it's only racist if the guy in question is black.
The Shelton-JoMo comparison is pretty accurate, actually. You know why? Because Morrison hasn't been world champion either. Yep, two guys who sucked on the mic, were pushed, won midcard titles, but never won the big one. Same. Exact. Thing.
Again, the criminal record and Visa shit being your best argument for MVP is incredibly lame. He was talented and they were planning to push him. They fucked up in the same way that they did with Orton in 2004. Unlike Orton, he didn't wait it out for a chance at another push and asked for his release. Now he's gone. The end.
Is your best argument for Henry that he's been "ribbed and screwed"? Really? How about how he sucks in the ring, and the only real thing the guy has going for him is that he's big and a monster? Also, are we going to completely ignore the monster push he's getting right now? Meanwhile we have Indians like Khali and Russians like Kozlov who are stuck as midcarders' sidekicks. Oh, but I forgot, it's only racist if the guy in question is black.
The Shelton-JoMo comparison is pretty accurate, actually. You know why? Because Morrison hasn't been world champion either. Yep, two guys who sucked on the mic, were pushed, won midcard titles, but never won the big one. Same. Exact. Thing.
Again, the criminal record and Visa shit being your best argument for MVP is incredibly lame. He was talented and they were planning to push him. They fucked up in the same way that they did with Orton in 2004. Unlike Orton, he didn't wait it out for a chance at another push and asked for his release. Now he's gone. The end.
Because Kofi is the only one who I agree that they're not making the effort that they should. But his career is also far from over, and they've tested the waters with him in the main event before. Admittedly his endless rivalry with Dolph is becoming overkill now, but if he keeps working hard and doesn't up and leave like some of the others, I feel like his time will come eventually. It's hard to make a true judgment on someone being held down when he's only 29 years old and still has plenty of time left.
I would say the same thing about Morrison if he hadn't been around for three extra years and been overshadowed by everyone he's ever been paired with, from Melina to Miz. At this point, I think Kofi will end up being bigger if WWE puts the wheels back behind him.
I would say the same thing about Morrison if he hadn't been around for three extra years and been overshadowed by everyone he's ever been paired with, from Melina to Miz. At this point, I think Kofi will end up being bigger if WWE puts the wheels back behind him.
god-soldier
Pre-Show Stalwart
I believe that all African American or black wrestler have been purposely held back in the WWF/WWE. Mark Henry has been in the WWE for almost 15 years and in his tenure he has held 2 titles and hasn't main evented a single PPV. The 2 titles he held don't even exist any more and he has had high profile feuds with some of the WWE's biggest stars but never main evented a PPV and why is that??? Well let's see is it his wrestling ability that keeps him from being a World or WWE champion or a main eventer? Well that can't be true when wrestlers with limited wrestling ability have been champion like John Cena, The Great Khali,and Kevin Nash just to name a few have been champion so that can't be it. Is it because he hasn't been over with the fans well he was over as Sexual Chocolate, and as a heel so that can't be it. Or is it because he hasn't faced or feud with well with some of the biggest stars; that's not true because he has been in feuds with Undertaker, Batista, Goldberg, and the Big Show so that's not it. Well..Henry has been loyal to the WWE for 15 years now when I say loyal done what he is been told to do and that is be on the road all the time and put over plenty of stars so they can be future champions some day. Now when you show loyalty like that for so long what could possibly being holding Henry back from PPV main event status and a WWE championship???? Well when you look at all he has done and as long as he has been their can only be one reason. Now if you don't believe that's the reason let's take a look back at other stars like Henry
The first that comes to mind is the JunkYard Dog possibly the biggest black wrestler of all time. Definitely one of the most popular ever!!!! When JYD first arrived in the WWE in 1984 he was already over with the fans and was right behind Hulk Hogan in popularity. He challenged the Intercontinental Champion several times and never won it. Faced the King and never won the crown. Then was purposely left out of the tournament for the vacant championship. Now what was wrong with JYD well was it his wrestling ability no that can't be it when he has wrestled all the greats. Was it because he wasn't popular with the fans that can't be it because he was right behind Hulk Hogan in popularity. Was it because he couldn't hold a good feud. No that can't be it when he feuded with some of the best the WWE had to offer at the time. JYD frustration led him never to return the WWE. So what was the reason JYD was held back sounds like the same reason Mark Henry is being held back. Another black wrestler who was treated the same way was Bad News Allen. Bad News was promised the world by Vince McMahon including being the first black WWE champion. After several chances at the title he never won the title then he was bumped back down to mid card status and embarrassed in front of his country men at WM IV when he faced a black white Roddy Piper. Frustrated and humiliated racially he left and never returned. Now why was Bad News not giving what he was promised well was it his wrestling ability that's not it because he could wrestle his ass off or was it because he wasn't over as a heel no that can't be it because he was one of the most hated men in the WWE at the time that can't be it. Hmmm what else could it be???? Its the same reason why Mark Henry has been held back. But wait what about other black stars from the 80's like Koko B Ware, Rocky Johnson, Special Delivery Jones, Butch Reed, Kamala,and Tony Atlas. Well out of all of them 2 got tag titles and their reign wasn't long and none of them no matter how popular or hated they were main evented anything or got big pushes so what was holding them back. Well its the same reason why Mark Henry is held back now I am no where near done so this thread post will be continued.
The first that comes to mind is the JunkYard Dog possibly the biggest black wrestler of all time. Definitely one of the most popular ever!!!! When JYD first arrived in the WWE in 1984 he was already over with the fans and was right behind Hulk Hogan in popularity. He challenged the Intercontinental Champion several times and never won it. Faced the King and never won the crown. Then was purposely left out of the tournament for the vacant championship. Now what was wrong with JYD well was it his wrestling ability no that can't be it when he has wrestled all the greats. Was it because he wasn't popular with the fans that can't be it because he was right behind Hulk Hogan in popularity. Was it because he couldn't hold a good feud. No that can't be it when he feuded with some of the best the WWE had to offer at the time. JYD frustration led him never to return the WWE. So what was the reason JYD was held back sounds like the same reason Mark Henry is being held back. Another black wrestler who was treated the same way was Bad News Allen. Bad News was promised the world by Vince McMahon including being the first black WWE champion. After several chances at the title he never won the title then he was bumped back down to mid card status and embarrassed in front of his country men at WM IV when he faced a black white Roddy Piper. Frustrated and humiliated racially he left and never returned. Now why was Bad News not giving what he was promised well was it his wrestling ability that's not it because he could wrestle his ass off or was it because he wasn't over as a heel no that can't be it because he was one of the most hated men in the WWE at the time that can't be it. Hmmm what else could it be???? Its the same reason why Mark Henry has been held back. But wait what about other black stars from the 80's like Koko B Ware, Rocky Johnson, Special Delivery Jones, Butch Reed, Kamala,and Tony Atlas. Well out of all of them 2 got tag titles and their reign wasn't long and none of them no matter how popular or hated they were main evented anything or got big pushes so what was holding them back. Well its the same reason why Mark Henry is held back now I am no where near done so this thread post will be continued.
Yeah, another post that proves that this whole "black wrestlers getting held back" thing is just a result of people not actually knowing what makes a good wrestler. The notion that Henry is on Cena's level in the ring is laughable in so many ways; he has never had ONE match that has made me think, "Wow, this guy is the real deal," where as Cena has had many. Hell, Undertaker couldn't even carry him to a good match at Mania 22, and he pretty much has stolen the show at every Mania since. He hasn't been WWE Champion because he's not good enough, period. And the Khali thing was an emergency situation where they gave the belt to someone they had already been building up to be a credible threat. It was a mistake, but one mistake every few years does not equal "everybody who sucks as bad as this guy does is being held back."
god-soldier
Pre-Show Stalwart
First Off I didn't finish my thread secondly John Cena hasn't shown shit in his whole career he has 5 moves that he does over and over again. Why is he a better wrestler than Mark Henry because he gets the big pushes that's it he has no wrestling ability. HBK carried that 60 minute match so did Randy Orton and that was the worse Iron match ever!!!!! Cena sucks when it comes to wrestling the only reason why he is champion because he has been forced down our throats and that's the same reason he is popular!!! Mark Henry has paid his dues and deserves his chance he is being held back for that reason. Am I wrong about JYD n Bad News Allen Self proclaimed champ??? If you are a real wrestling fan you know I am right but because your a bandwagon regular feed me anything WWE fan you will always favor them!!!! Black wrestlers have being held down for decades after decades in this business. You say I don't know real wrestlers but my top 5 are Bret Hart Ric Flair Hulk Hogan Sting and undertaker and none of those wrestlers are black I am a real fan I go to every show in philly independent or mainstream so don't tell me I am wrong your a hypocrite of th black wrestler like every other fan who responded to this thread I watch and know more tape than Triple H you self proclaimed lame champ!!! Don't tell me I speak the truth you lousy humanoid!!!
dynamitedux
Dark Match Jobber
So, god-soldier, are you actually saying that Mark Henry should've been world champ when he was Sexual Chocolate? Should he have beaten Stone Cold or The Rock to win the title? Or maybe he could have pinned The Undertaker clean in the middle of the ring? Don't be a dumbass.
Are you seriously saying that JYD was held back because he was black? Maybe he didn't get the title because Hulk Hogan had a firm grip on it. There are a ton of wrestlers who missed out on holding the belt during Hogan's run, you can't claim that the only reason JYD didn't get the belt was because of his race.
You also mention that JYD never became King, but conveniently forget that a Tongan by the name of Haku won the crown...
And seriously, don't tell me that you actually believe Koko B. Ware should be a world champion. Should he have defeated Hogan, Savage, or the Ultimate Warrior?
You're clutching at straws.
Yeah no, HBK didn't carry that hour long match. Nor did Orton. Watch them again please, and maybe with an unbiased perspective this time. And those are just two of the many great matches Cena has had, including with guys who clearly could not possibly have carried him (see his surprisingly good matches with Khali for a great example). He's great in the ring because he's excellent at selling, telling the story of a match, connecting with the crowd, and pretty much every kind of intangible that does not involve an incredibly varied moveset. Wrestling is not about how many moves you do, it's about captivating the audience, and Cena does that better than anyone else. Mark Henry does none of these things nearly as well, and his only claim to fame in the ring is his power. I would like to see some great matches that you think Henry has participated in, because I don't really remember any, and that's because he doesn't have the same capability to put them on.
Also, the "paying his dues" argument is lame. Sorry, but you can pay however many dues you want, if you don't have it, then you don't have it. Cena's had it for nearly his whole career and has only improved with time. Henry, on the other hand, hasn't really done so in the areas that matter the most. They can't get him over any other way than having him destroy shit and people, because that's literally the only thing that he's good at.
Oh, and besides the wrestling skills that he DOES have, Cena is champion because he sells tickets and merchandise. That is indisputable no matter how much you dislike him. And it's not just because he's been forced down our throats, because they've done that with a lot of guys who didn't pan out the same way. See: Mark Henry.
therockiswwf
The voice of Michael Cole's headset
I think what happened with Kofi is that they lacked more top heel talent for him to keep going. After Randy, they ran out of top talent for him to go against. Booker T actually made up the King Booker Gimmick.
Believability means nothing in wrestling. It is simple as this:
Make money = push
Don't make money = no push
Vince is like Mr. Krabs, he loves money. Vince has no problem in pushing people that make him money. I would go on, but this topic is so stupid it hurts my head.
Believability means nothing in wrestling. It is simple as this:
Make money = push
Don't make money = no push
Vince is like Mr. Krabs, he loves money. Vince has no problem in pushing people that make him money. I would go on, but this topic is so stupid it hurts my head.
Hollywood Naitch
The current reigning and defending
This topic is just going round in circles
The fact of the matter is Vince McMahon would never not push a black wrestler if he believed that the black wrestler had the potential to make him a lot of money. Vince is a businessman, and he couldn't care less who held the belt if he is bringing in the dollars.
See Bobby Lashley- that man was going to be pushed to the moon. He had the superhero physique Vince drools over, he was easily good enough in the ring, and he got pushed hard.
However, he didn't make it as a champion because he had absolutely NO mic skills. Lashley looked like a scared rabbit in the headlights whenever he tried to talk. He was over with the fans, but nowhere near capable of carrying the WWE as its champion. That is the reason he never became champion, not because he was black.
Wrestlers like Cena, Austin, Triple H, Jericho etc all have the total package and are able to entertain in the ring and on the mic, that is why they are champions
Wrestlers like Mark Henry, Shelton Benjamin, Bobby Lashley etc have no charisma, therefore cannot sell storylines and cannot carry the company and boost buy rates. That is why they never became champion.
The fact of the matter is Vince McMahon would never not push a black wrestler if he believed that the black wrestler had the potential to make him a lot of money. Vince is a businessman, and he couldn't care less who held the belt if he is bringing in the dollars.
See Bobby Lashley- that man was going to be pushed to the moon. He had the superhero physique Vince drools over, he was easily good enough in the ring, and he got pushed hard.
However, he didn't make it as a champion because he had absolutely NO mic skills. Lashley looked like a scared rabbit in the headlights whenever he tried to talk. He was over with the fans, but nowhere near capable of carrying the WWE as its champion. That is the reason he never became champion, not because he was black.
Wrestlers like Cena, Austin, Triple H, Jericho etc all have the total package and are able to entertain in the ring and on the mic, that is why they are champions
Wrestlers like Mark Henry, Shelton Benjamin, Bobby Lashley etc have no charisma, therefore cannot sell storylines and cannot carry the company and boost buy rates. That is why they never became champion.
god-soldier
Pre-Show Stalwart
First off dumbasses Cena can't wrestle just because you can do 5 moves over and over doesn't make you a good wrestler!!!!! I watched both of those Iron man matches again and was still bored to death and couldn't wait for them to be over because that's how boring and non exciting they were dumbassess!!!! Next you say Mark Henry can't beat the Rock or Austin and that's bullshit because Mark Henry is over 400 pounds and is the world strongest man if allowed he could tear them limb from limb. I can definitely see Undertaker getting pinned by Mark Henry cleanly you know why because he is the world strongest man and if he slammed Undertaker hard enough he could break his back!!!! But I have watched Vader get pinned cleanly by Val Venus, Edge, and the Rock in 98 and you wanna sit here and tell me Henry can't get a clean win on Undertaker during this time that's bullshit!!!! Its ironic when Brock Lesnar showed his power he was allowed to bulldoze everyone including the Undertaker and he sucked horribly on the mic but it was okay for him right!!!! You guys are obviously biased towards your lame non credible champions like John Cena. R-truth had Cena's gimmick first and it didn't work for him but Cena capaulted to the top but K-Kwik couldn't get a push for anything. But someone who never proved them self till after their was no one left to face deserves to be champion!!!! Child Please!!!! CM Punk is the best wrestler in the entire WWE and if he was pushed properly he would be bigger than Cena and a more credible champion. But we don't get that we get bullshit a lame ass champion who isn't a better wrestler than half the guys on the roster. And while all this is going on Henry is still being held back just like MVP who is a better wrestler and on the mic then Cena, just like Shelton Benjamin who was a way better wrestler than Cena not so good on mic but neither is Cena with his lame ass jokes and raps, Booker T who was a great wrestler and better than Stone Cold, HHH, The Rock, HBK, and Cena and was half decent on the mic and the best commentator currently on the roster he was held back as soon as he got there they took all his belts away and fed him kibbles and bits until they Frustrated him to leave Hmmm doesn't that sound familiar and Bobby Lashley as well who was also held back for the same reason and you say well he sucked on the mic and lesnar didn't!! You guys make me sick Vince is a business man yes but their is an audience of people he doesn't care to make any money off and their is a group of people that he will put on his show and say I have them on the show but that's it because I am a racist pricks I will take your money but non of your people can have my belt!!!! The evidence is in front of you and its so damn true Henry and all the other black wrestlers are purposely held back and until Vince dies and HHH dies I know we will never see a black face as WWE champion they can be I-C and U.S. and World Champions but they will never be WWE champions. Cena enough of this bullshit!!!!!
Yeah, you obviously didn't even read my post (or any other post in this thread for that matter), and just continued to shout your same points that I already disputed. Again, it's not about the number of moves you do. That's an incredibly shallow view of what pro wrestling is and one that lends itself to not being able to appreciate some of the best wrestlers of all time. But if you subscribe to that whole deal, then I guess I can see why you would think Henry deserves that spot. (YEAH BIG POWER MOVES! RAWR!)
And did you just say that Booker T is a better wrestler than Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Michaels, and Cena? And he's the BEST commentator on the roster? Bro, you serious? He's nowhere near any of those things. He has nowhere near the track record of great matches and he botches commentary lines all the fucking time. Now you're just making it obvious that you want to see the black guys pushed regardless of their actual levels of talent. And yes, I'm willing to bet that like the OP of this thread, you're probably black yourself.
I swear, the people making this argument are more bigoted than they claim the WWE is. I will continue thinking that until you can give me some credible reasons as to why the black guys are better than the white guys.
And did you just say that Booker T is a better wrestler than Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Michaels, and Cena? And he's the BEST commentator on the roster? Bro, you serious? He's nowhere near any of those things. He has nowhere near the track record of great matches and he botches commentary lines all the fucking time. Now you're just making it obvious that you want to see the black guys pushed regardless of their actual levels of talent. And yes, I'm willing to bet that like the OP of this thread, you're probably black yourself.
I swear, the people making this argument are more bigoted than they claim the WWE is. I will continue thinking that until you can give me some credible reasons as to why the black guys are better than the white guys.
Hollywood Naitch
The current reigning and defending
Mark Henry can't done one move correctly let alone 5
In a real fight maybe, but this is pre-determined wrestling and Mark Henry has never been capable of having a good enough match to justify beating Undertaker, Rock or Austin. Every single match he has had he brings down the quality. Why would Vince get behind someone who has such little charisma, wrestling ability and is very sloppy in the ring. Of course he is going to go with reliable entertaining wrestlers who the fans actually give a fuck about.
Brock Lesnar was an excellent wrestler, with amateur credentials, an incredible physique and was a world-class athlete. Mark Henry is incredibly strong, but is very immobile in the ring, sloppy and can do 1/10th of what Lesnar is capable of. Brock was a once in a lifetime superstar. Henry is a world class weightlifter, but a terrible and boring wrestler.
CM Punk is better than Cena, but why are you complaining about the lack of Cena's in-ring skills and praising Mark Henry. Can you not see his sheer lack of talent? Cena is a much better performer than Mark Henry.
Booker T was a black World Heavyweight Champion who also held the US title 3x, the Intercontinental title 2x, the Hardcore title 2x, 4 Tag-Team belts and won the KOTR. Yeah, they didnt push him at all did they.
Moron, and completely incorrect. How old are you? Stop playing the "is it cos I is black?" card, and making up stuff that isnt there.
Booker T was black and held the World Title in WWE. Get a fucking grip for Christ's sake you sad, sad man. Stop creating a sense of false injustice and just enjoy the show. If R-Truth was good enough, if Henry was good enough, if Lashley had even the slightest charisma they would have been Champion.
Khali is Indian, Rock is Samoan, Booker is black. They held the big belts in WWE, so the evidence is there that foreigners or different races will get pushed. Not everyone is good enough to be champion, and people like Benjamin and Henry would not sell tickets if they were champion.
You need to be able to make people interested in the feuds through your mic skills. It is no coincidence that the best of all time- Rock, Austin, HBK, HHH, Hogan, Flair etc can all TALK as well as entertain in the ring. It is sports ENTERTAINMENT, your persona has to appeal to the fans as it is them who have to be entertained. If they dont buy you, you won't make it.
To be a rightful main eventer, you need to be able to talk and wrestle a good match that gets the fans interested. Henry can do neither, Lashley can do the match barely, Benjamin can only do the match, Truth can talk but his matches are just average. Hogan and Cena tell great stories in their matches, which makes up for the fact they arent the greatest in the ring. Henry can't do this, he simply isnt good enough.
There was a point in time where I could have agreed with a lot of you and said that race had no effect on WWE's decisions.
Then the whole Michael Hayes/Mark Henry thing happened.
After that, you gotta wonder: Is this really a one time occurrence? I'm sorry, but Mouthy Idiot has a point when he says "corporate racist". Let's face it, most everyone on Earth has a psychological preference to their own race and it can't be helped. So in the corporate world, being "corporate racist" doesn't mean you won't care for minorities. It just means that your psychological preference MIGHT (note I said might, not will) help determine who you surround yourself with in the company. But I maintain that Vince is not racist or corporate racist (he loves R-Truth and he wanted to give Hassan a world title shot), but rather it's the creative team.
And let's be real: to some of you who went and said WWE hasn't had any worthy black competitors besides Booker and Rock must be off your meds. IDGAF what anyone says: Shelton should have been champ if Dolph Ziggler (who is just like Shelton imo, good ring skills, lacking mic skills) is recognized as WHC. MVP was one of the hottest heels of the last half of the 2000s and should have won it (hell, he could have won it as a face too had Creative not screwed that up too). R Truth and Henry I'd say will soon be champs in due time. Kofi, On a side note, lost his chance because of Orton, not because of race.
And even Rock and Booker aren't the complete cases of a black man winning the world title without help. Booker should have and was gonna win it against HHH that WM a long time ago, but we all know how that turned out. Booker was destined to win a world title at some point, I mean come on, he was one of WCWs biggest stars, so if he never won it that would have been a sin. And even though Rock is my all time favorite, it could have been his connection with the Wild Somoan family coupled with his amazing skill that made him who he is. Besides, The Rock being black is something that Google or Wikipedia would have had to tell you.
Then the whole Michael Hayes/Mark Henry thing happened.
After that, you gotta wonder: Is this really a one time occurrence? I'm sorry, but Mouthy Idiot has a point when he says "corporate racist". Let's face it, most everyone on Earth has a psychological preference to their own race and it can't be helped. So in the corporate world, being "corporate racist" doesn't mean you won't care for minorities. It just means that your psychological preference MIGHT (note I said might, not will) help determine who you surround yourself with in the company. But I maintain that Vince is not racist or corporate racist (he loves R-Truth and he wanted to give Hassan a world title shot), but rather it's the creative team.
And let's be real: to some of you who went and said WWE hasn't had any worthy black competitors besides Booker and Rock must be off your meds. IDGAF what anyone says: Shelton should have been champ if Dolph Ziggler (who is just like Shelton imo, good ring skills, lacking mic skills) is recognized as WHC. MVP was one of the hottest heels of the last half of the 2000s and should have won it (hell, he could have won it as a face too had Creative not screwed that up too). R Truth and Henry I'd say will soon be champs in due time. Kofi, On a side note, lost his chance because of Orton, not because of race.
And even Rock and Booker aren't the complete cases of a black man winning the world title without help. Booker should have and was gonna win it against HHH that WM a long time ago, but we all know how that turned out. Booker was destined to win a world title at some point, I mean come on, he was one of WCWs biggest stars, so if he never won it that would have been a sin. And even though Rock is my all time favorite, it could have been his connection with the Wild Somoan family coupled with his amazing skill that made him who he is. Besides, The Rock being black is something that Google or Wikipedia would have had to tell you.
