Let's play "Name those NFL Stats".

[klunderbunker]

KB, you're a Cowboys fan if I remember right, would you rather have Tebow as the Cowboys starting QB or Romo? Just curious.

Do you mean right now, as in at their current ages? Romo, as he's still got some good years left in him and has shown flashes of really solid talent. If the rest of the team could get it together, he'd look a lot better.

 

[Nate DaMac]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...n-elway-says-tim-tebow-starting-qb-going-camp

Would you really expect him to say anything else?

 

[Big Sexy]

Good for them. I saw John Elway, as good a QB as has ever lived, saying that Tebow was the guy in Denver until the best QB in the world not named Brady became available. I'm going to take Elway's word over yours.

John Elway is the VP of football operations for the Broncos. Of course he is going to support his players. If he didn't get Manning then Tebow was going to be in line to be the starter so he's obviously going to back him publicly. However, most observers behind the scenes reported that Elway was not at all comfortable with Tebow as the long term starter.

 

[klunderbunker]

Would you really expect him to say anything else?

John Elway is the VP of football operations for the Broncos. Of course he is going to support his players. If he didn't get Manning then Tebow was going to be in line to be the starter so he's obviously going to back him publicly. However, most observers behind the scenes reported that Elway was not at all comfortable with Tebow as the long term starter.

Not at all, but based on what we've heard for sure, as in not speculation or rumors or anything like that, until the Manning signing, Tebow was the starter for the Broncos for this season. Whether that would have lasted or not isn't know, but barring something major, he would have been the starter.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Eh, that makes sense. I just couldn't imagine wanting to deal with the circus that surrounds him. It's not really his fault, but the dude has so many goons following him that every thing your franchise does with him on the roster goes under an extreme scrutiny that not a lot of other teams have to deal with. I mean, Jacksonville and Arizona are shit right now but no one is tearing their franchise down like this.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'm far more interested in what he did last year, than what he did at the end of his rookie year when his team was 3-10 when Tebow was given garbage time.

So 8-5 is the more accurate number.

So even though Tebow was throwing for 300 yards, it's only because of his "skilled players".

Good to see you being objective.

# of times Tebow has led a team to the playoffs in the last two years? 1. # of times Sanchez has done it in the last two years? 0.

Growing pains happen to everyone. Payton Manning was 3-13 in his first year starting and threw 28 INT. Oh and he wasn't bad at all in his first start against New England.

8 of his last 13 games prove my point. And Tebow didn't play bad at all against the Patriots in the first game. He completed 50% of his passes, threw for roughly 200 yards, ran for 93 more and scored 2 TD. Not a bad game at all against one of the best teams in the league.

So until he puts up the stats you want to see (which apparently doesn't include wins or playoff appearances), Tebow shouldn't get to play.

Gimmick offenses are a hell of a thing. The wildcat gave the Dolphins an 11-5 season and a playoff birth. Defenses figured it out and the Dolphins proceeded to go 7-9 the next two seasons. Tebow and Broncos get off to a good start with their new offense, defenses start to figure it out and they proceed to lose their final 3 games of the season and Tebow starts to look progressively worse. He has his first good game in over month in the wild card round and then proceeds to play a complete shit game the following week against the 31st ranked defense.

I throw out a lot of stats but at the end of the day it comes down to the eye test. The eye test shows that Tebow was not improving as a passer and the only thing changing was the other teams defensive game plans. Those game plans were shutting down Tebow at the end of the year and because of Tebow's skill set, the offense couldn't adjust.

 

[klunderbunker]

Eh, that makes sense. I just couldn't imagine wanting to deal with the circus that surrounds him. It's not really his fault, but the dude has so many goons following him that every thing your franchise does with him on the roster goes under an extreme scrutiny that not a lot of other teams have to deal with. I mean, Jacksonville and Arizona are shit right now but no one is tearing their franchise down like this.

I don't think he tears a franchise down. The Jets are a circus and have been since Rex took over. The Broncos seemed incredibly united last year.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Because somewhere along the line, the amount of wins stopped meaning as much as the stats you put up in those wins.

Stats don't (or at least shouldn't) mean shit as long as your QB is putting up the big W, that's really all that matters. People can say Flacco sucks all they want to, but as long as the Ravens win it doesn't matter (which they aren't right now). Sanchez has proven to be one of the most mentally weak QB's in the NFL. Do you REALLY want him to lead your team? Tebow has proven that he can take the insults AND win all at the same time. I'll take Tebow over Sanchez any day.

My point is that in the game of football, winning is what matters, not stats. If the Colts had chosen to bench Peyton Manning after that horrendous first season, he wouldn't have become the great QB he is today. Not saying Tebow is the next Peyton or anything but give the man a chance to start consistently, for more than one season. The man's a proven winner. Let him win.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I don't think he tears a franchise down. The Jets are a circus and have been since Rex took over. The Broncos seemed incredibly united last year.

I wasn't saying that he tears them down, I was talking about his goons like Skip Bayless tearing down the Jets. They did the same thing to Denver last year.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

I don't think he tears a franchise down. The Jets are a circus and have been since Rex took over. The Broncos seemed incredibly united last year.

I think he means from fans and the media.

 

[klunderbunker]

Stats don't (or at least shouldn't) mean shit as long as your QB is putting up the big W, that's really all that matters. People can say Flacco sucks all they want to, but as long as the Ravens win it doesn't matter (which they aren't right now). Sanchez has proven to be one of the most mentally weak QB's in the NFL. Do you REALLY want him to lead your team? Tebow has proven that he can take the insults AND win all at the same time. I'll take Tebow over Sanchez any day.

My point is that in the game of football, winning is what matters, not stats. If the Colts had chosen to bench Peyton Manning after that horrendous first season, he wouldn't have become the great QB he is today. Not saying Tebow is the next Peyton or anything but give the man a chance to start consistently, for more than one season. The man's a proven winner. Let him win.

Another good example of development is Drew Brees. he was average at best in San Diego, then once they drafted Rivers he started setting the world on fire before going to the Saints and being one of the best in the league. It can happen overnight sometimes.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I think he means from fans and the media.

Yeah. It's the National media more so than anyone I guess. ESPN follows Tebow like a hawk so the Jets get blasted way more than KC does who are a lot worse than the Jets right now. Locally though, the Chiefs are decimated by these hack sports commentators who wish so badly that they could get a real gig somewhere. Maybe it's like that in Arizona and Jacksonville too, but ESPN doesn't talk about any of them unless someone dies.

 

[klunderbunker]

I wasn't saying that he tears them down, I was talking about his goons like Skip Bayless tearing down the Jets. They did the same thing to Denver last year.

That's because most of the time, Skip Bayless is an idiot.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah. It's the National media more so than anyone I guess. ESPN follows Tebow like a hawk so the Jets get blasted way more than KC does who are a lot worse than the Jets right now. Locally though, the Chiefs are decimated by these hack sports commentators who wish so badly that they could get a real gig somewhere. Maybe it's like that in Arizona and Jacksonville too, but ESPN doesn't talk about any of them unless someone dies.

This is true. Granted New York is going to get coverage like that no matter who is on the team. The thing is though, Tebow has shown he can handle that pressure while Sanchez has cracked. At the end of the day, Tebow still hasn't gotten a fair chance. If he fails then he fails and I'll shut up about it, but until he gets that chance he's still a guy with success only so far.

 

[Nate DaMac]

That's because most of the time, Skip Bayless is an idiot.

I despise him for the most part. There is nothing more enjoyable than watching him get proven wrong, though.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Yeah. It's the National media more so than anyone I guess. ESPN follows Tebow like a hawk so the Jets get blasted way more than KC does who are a lot worse than the Jets right now. Locally though, the Chiefs are decimated by these hack sports commentators who wish so badly that they could get a real gig somewhere. Maybe it's like that in Arizona and Jacksonville too, but ESPN doesn't talk about any of them unless someone dies.

It's ridiculous the way they hound him everywhere he goes. I swear ESPN can't go single day without bringing up something Tebow related. I like the guy but they wear the shit out of the subject.

That's because most of the time, Skip Bayless is an idiot.

Try 99.99999999% of the time. He says something smart every now and then but it's few and far between. I much prefer Stephen A. Smith. He's much more objective and a hell of a lot smarter.

 

[klunderbunker]

I despise him for the most part. There is nothing more enjoyable than watching him get proven wrong, though.

Oh absolutely. There's nothing more fun than watching idiots go nuts and then poking holes in them. I've made a career out of it on here.

 

[jmt225]

I'm sorry, wasn't your organization the one that was playing players to intentionally injure other players?

No. If they were, I think a player or two would have been suspended for it. But, the league didn't have any hard evidence against them, and the Saints were robbed of their coach because of it, and the season was flushed down the toilet.

The excuse "The players did it but won't get punished for it because the coaches told them to." is a bullshit cop-out because the league was scared for it to go to an actual court since they knew they didn't have anything.

And even if you think the Saints are guilty of a bounty program, that doesn't make the Jets any less of a team filled with cowards and assholes.

 

[Slyfox696]

Gimmick offenses are a hell of a thing. The wildcat gave the Dolphins an 11-5 season and a playoff birth. Defenses figured it out and the Dolphins proceeded to go 7-9 the next two seasons. Tebow and Broncos get off to a good start with their new offense, defenses start to figure it out and they proceed to lose their final 3 games of the season and Tebow starts to look progressively worse. He has his first good game in over month in the wild card round and then proceeds to play a complete shit game the following week against the 31st ranked defense.

I throw out a lot of stats but at the end of the day it comes down to the eye test. The eye test shows that Tebow was not improving as a passer and the only thing changing was the other teams defensive game plans. Those game plans were shutting down Tebow at the end of the year and because of Tebow's skill set, the offense couldn't adjust.

So let me see if I have you right.

Your argument against an 8-5 Tebow in his first year starting is that the Dolphins regressed from one year to another and that he wasn't improving as a passer throughout a year he was not initially the starter.

And people wonder why others don't take the anti-Tebow argument seriously. We're not saying Tebow is or will be the second coming of Randall Cunningham or even RG 3. What we are saying is how ridiculous it is that a man who completely changed the fortunes of a franchise by winning 8 games, many times with late game heroics, including a playoff game is not even being given the opportunity to show whether he's for real or simply a fluke. We find it even more illogical Tebow isn't being given an opportunity considering how woefully bad the Jets have been all year long with Sanchez starting. How they've even managed to win 6 games is beyond me. Probably good defense, because it certainly isn't their passing offense which ranks 30th in the league.

You claim you're not ready to name him a starter, and yet you cannot deny the record he put up last year as a starter. You can give me all the reasons in the world why you think it won't work the next time, but until we have a next time, your argument will always pale beside the argument of 8-5 and a playoff victory against the #1 rated defense in the league.

It's really that simple.

 

[Slyfox696]

I wasn't saying that he tears them down, I was talking about his goons like Skip Bayless tearing down the Jets. They did the same thing to Denver last year.

What's wrong with tearing down the Jets? They deserve every bit of it. It's an absolute joke of a franchise right now.

And Bayless has been on the Tebow bandwagon for a while now.

Yeah. It's the National media more so than anyone I guess. ESPN follows Tebow like a hawk so the Jets get blasted way more than KC does who are a lot worse than the Jets right now. Locally though, the Chiefs are decimated by these hack sports commentators who wish so badly that they could get a real gig somewhere. Maybe it's like that in Arizona and Jacksonville too, but ESPN doesn't talk about any of them unless someone dies.

In fairness, the Chiefs ARE really really bad...and who the fuck thought hiring Romeo Crennel would be a good move?

At the end of the day, Tebow still hasn't gotten a fair chance. If he fails then he fails and I'll shut up about it, but until he gets that chance he's still a guy with success only so far.

This is exactly what so many people don't get. I agree 100%.

I much prefer Stephen A. Smith. He's much more objective and a hell of a lot smarter.

No, he's a little more objective and only the slightest bit smarter. Stephen A. Smith is a goon. Not to mention, he's a racist.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

No, he's a little more objective and only the slightest bit smarter. Stephen A. Smith is a goon. Not to mention, he's a racist.

So he's basically ESPN's version of Big Sexy? I watch too much First Take.

 

[Nate DaMac]

What's wrong with tearing down the Jets? They deserve every bit of it. It's an absolute joke of a franchise right now.

Not saying that they don't deserve it, but why, if you you were the GM of any other team, would you bring this circus to your franchise? The odds of Tebow being a successful QB now are extremely low but his support is at an all time high. You're going to be crucified for benching Tebow when he inevitably stinks up the joint. The only way Tebow's getting the job is if McDaniels gets a HC gig somewhere, a coach is on his last leg and is willing to try anything, or Jacksonville, which will get a pass no matter what he does since they couldn't possibly get any worse.

And Bayless has been on the Tebow bandwagon for a while now.

Just one of the many, many reasons I hate him. He's caused me to become a huge fan of Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck just because I want to see him look like a moron.

I really wish someone would actually call him out for saying that the rookie in Tampa is better than Adrian Peterson.

In fairness, the Chiefs ARE really really bad...and who the fuck thought hiring Romeo Crennel would be a good move?

The players loved him and rallied around him. I didn't want him as the coach either, but I think the bigger mistake was letting Charlie Weiss go a couple years ago. The offense still hasn't recovered.

No, he's a little more objective and only the slightest bit smarter. Stephen A. Smith is a goon. Not to mention, he's a racist.

It's impossible to take you seriously when you accuse someone of being a racist.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not saying that they don't deserve it, but why, if you you were the GM of any other team, would you bring this circus to your franchise?

Because it doesn't have to be a circus. The Jets made it a circus. And let's not kid ourselves, it was a circus before Tebow got there.

The odds of Tebow being a successful QB now are extremely low

Not if you put him into the right system.

The players loved him and rallied around him.

But he's a terrible coach.

I didn't want him as the coach either, but I think the bigger mistake was letting Charlie Weiss go a couple years ago. The offense still hasn't recovered.

I don't think they "let him" so much as Weiss was offered a head coaching gig and Todd Haley was still the head man in KC.

It's impossible to take you seriously when you accuse someone of being a racist.

Why? Stephen A. Smith is, he's presented himself in that manner many times.

I'm not sure what you're saying. If I say the KKK is racist, you cannot take me seriously? Why is accurately assessing a man's views make it impossible to take me seriously?

 

[JGlass]

No. If they were, I think a player or two would have been suspended for it. But, the league didn't have any hard evidence against them, and the Saints were robbed of their coach because of it, and the season was flushed down the toilet.

The excuse "The players did it but won't get punished for it because the coaches told them to." is a bullshit cop-out because the league was scared for it to go to an actual court since they knew they didn't have anything.

And even if you think the Saints are guilty of a bounty program, that doesn't make the Jets any less of a team filled with cowards and assholes.

Yeah, and OJ Simpson didn't murder his wife and her boyfriend.

I'm really not here to make any sort of statement about the Jets, I'm in no position to. They suck. My point here is that you shouldn't throw stones as glass houses. Think back to how you felt when the Saints were having all those problems earlier this year and people were calling for the Saints to get all sorts of shit heaped upon them. Probably made you feel pretty shitty that people were wishing poorly on an organization you care about. And now you turn around and do the same thing? I mean, I get it, this is the world of sports, your team gets shit on one month, and then it's your turn to shit on someone else's team the next, but we don't have to be getting all nasty about it and wishing ill on the franchises that other people love.

Sorry for the sermon, I just hate when people wish for bad things to befall others.

 

[jmt225]

Yeah, and OJ Simpson didn't murder his wife and her boyfriend.

Did you follow the whole ordeal closely at all? I bet you didn't, but I did, so I know the ins and outs of it, and take my word for it... there's more evidence suggesting the Saints did NOT have a bounty program than there is that they did. If you want me to run it all down for you I gladly will.

I'm really not here to make any sort of statement about the Jets, I'm in no position to. They suck. My point here is that you shouldn't throw stones as glass houses. Think back to how you felt when the Saints were having all those problems earlier this year and people were calling for the Saints to get all sorts of shit heaped upon them. Probably made you feel pretty shitty that people were wishing poorly on an organization you care about. And now you turn around and do the same thing? I mean, I get it, this is the world of sports, your team gets shit on one month, and then it's your turn to shit on someone else's team the next, but we don't have to be getting all nasty about it and wishing ill on the franchises that other people love.

For the past 3 years I've been standing up for Stormtrooper, defending his Jets and Sanchez when people would shit on them and he would stand there battling everyone on his own. However, there is no defense for this.

The Saints have had their ups and downs this season. Let's say during one of those down times, a couple of anonymous quotes from the team came out blaming Drew Brees, bitching about his contract, etc. I would be saying the same thing about the Saints as I am the Jets. Not much gets under my skin in pro sports than anonymous quotes from people (especially players) in the organization.

The Jets team is filled with cowards and assholes. Trust me, I'd say the same thing about the Saints if I thought it. I know the Jets organization has a great and loyal fanbase, and I think their owner is a decent guy as far as owners are concerned, and I don't exactly mind Rex Ryan, but the players and "leaders" on that team? Fuck 'em. Whiny scumbags the lot of them.