Let's play "Name those NFL Stats".

[Big Sexy]

Good for him. You're either stupider than I thought or a bad troll.

You want a team to give a guy with a career completion % of 47.9, a career qb rating of 75.3, and a qbr that ranked 31st in the NFL last season a starting position. Knowing full well that to have a chance at success the offense will need to be completely tailored to his limited NFL qb skill set. Also knowing that the Broncos just tried this and while the initial results were good, defenses (like they always do with gimmick offenses in the NFL) figured it out after a while and shut it down the last few weeks of that season. And I'm the stupid one?

I know the guy is 8-6 as a starter overall but he is 1-3 in his last 4 regular season starts because he got figured out. Rex Grossman is 25-22 as a career starter but no one is lining up to make him their starting qb. Mark Sanchez is 33-28 as a career starter but he has a nice career as a bench warmer ahead of him.

 

[Big Sexy]

If only Tim Tebow were black like David Garrard. Then Big Sexy would support Tebow.

Actually if Tebow was competent as an NFL passer then I'd support him. By the way, how's that Blaine Gabbert thing working out for Jacksonville?

 

[Slyfox696]

Actually if Tebow was competent as an NFL passer then I'd support him.

Says the person who was upset when Garrard was let go.

By the way, how's that Blaine Gabbert thing working out for Jacksonville?

Well, considering he's injured right now, it seems like he's playing as much as Garrard is. But you'll be happy to know the Jaguars have gone to the playoffs in the last two years as many times as they did in the two years before he was drafted.

 

[klunderbunker]

You want a team to give a guy with a career completion % of 47.9, a career qb rating of 75.3, and a qbr that ranked 31st in the NFL last season a starting position. Knowing full well that to have a chance at success the offense will need to be completely tailored to his limited NFL qb skill set. Also knowing that the Broncos just tried this and while the initial results were good, defenses (like they always do with gimmick offenses in the NFL) figured it out after a while and shut it down the last few weeks of that season. And I'm the stupid one?

I know the guy is 8-6 as a starter overall but he is 1-3 in his last 4 regular season starts because he got figured out. Rex Grossman is 25-22 as a career starter but no one is lining up to make him their starting qb. Mark Sanchez is 33-28 as a career starter but he has a nice career as a bench warmer ahead of him.

Really? In the last two weeks of the season, I saw Tebow leading a team to a win over a playoff team and then losing to another one. That sounds to me like he can contend with top talent. I mean, it's not like he could do any worse for say, Kansas City, Arizona, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Buffalo. I'd think most of those teams would love to be .500 or so, but what do I know? I'm just going off success and you have STATS.

 

[Big Sexy]

Really? In the last two weeks of the season, I saw Tebow leading a team to a win over a playoff team and then losing to another one. That sounds to me like he can contend with top talent. I mean, it's not like he could do any worse for say, Kansas City, Arizona, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Buffalo. I'd think most of those teams would love to be .500 or so, but what do I know? I'm just going off success and you have STATS.

If you're going off success then why aren't you making an argument for Rex Grossman to be a starter? Where's your Mark Sanchez argument? Could it be that those guys were winning games because of the overall team and not their individual performances? You keep bringing up the playoff win for Tebow as a reason he should get a chance as a starter, yet when I bring up TJ Yates then suddenly I'm a stupid troll for doing so.

 

[Big Sexy]

Well, considering he's injured right now, it seems like he's playing as much as Garrard is. But you'll be happy to know the Jaguars have gone to the playoffs in the last two years as many times as they did in the two years before he was drafted.

Considering my argument was never about Garrard being some great quarterback I'm not sure how that matters. My argument was always that Gabbert wasn't ready and could have used a season behind a veteran starter. The Jags threw him in the fire right away and they are now further from being a competitive team then they were before they drafted him.

 

[Slyfox696]

If you're going off success then why aren't you making an argument for Rex Grossman to be a starter? Where's your Mark Sanchez argument?

Both of those have proven they are not going to be successful. The only thing Tebow has proven is that he has.

Just face it. If Tebow was black, you'd support him like you've supported Garrard. Everyone here knows you prefer black players, just admit it already.

 

[klunderbunker]

If you're going off success then why aren't you making an argument for Rex Grossman to be a starter? Where's your Mark Sanchez argument? Could it be that those guys were winning games because of the overall team and not their individual performances? You keep bringing up the playoff win for Tebow as a reason he should get a chance as a starter, yet when I bring up TJ Yates then suddenly I'm a stupid troll for doing so.

Considering Yates came in when Schaub got hurt rather than because the team sucked, yeah, you're a stupid troll for bringing it up.

Now, as for those other two, what's the difference? Since you're a schmuck, I'll explain it to you.

Grossman and Sanchez had success, and then were benched. The difference however, is they actually had time starting between the success and the benching. Tebow has gotten no such shot after his success. Make sense? Of course it does, and now I'm waiting on your illogical response that misses the point.

 

[Big Sexy]

Both of those have proven they are not going to be successful. The only thing Tebow has proven is that he has.

He's 8-6 as a starter and was getting worse as the starts went on. He hasn't proven shit.

Just face it. If Tebow was black, you'd support him like you've supported Garrard. Everyone here knows you prefer black players, just admit it already.

If Tebow was black he'd be getting the same treatment from me. Last time I checked Vince Young was black and I've said many times that he is a shit starting qb and he is 31-19 as a starter.

 

[Slyfox696]

He's 8-6 as a starter

8-5 last year actually, if you include playoffs.

and was getting worse as the starts went on.

Except for that playoff win against the best defense in the NFL, in which he threw for over 300 yards.

He hasn't proven shit.

But he hasn't proven he IS shit, which is the point we're making. Tebow has won, Grossman and Sanchez have shown they will not.

If Tebow was black he'd be getting the same treatment from me.

False. Everyone here knows the hard on you have for black players. Just because you don't like Vince Young, that doesn't change your racist attitudes towards pro athletes.

 

[Big Sexy]

Considering Yates came in when Schaub got hurt rather than because the team sucked, yeah, you're a stupid troll for bringing it up.

You said Tebow should start because of his success and a playoff victory. Regardless of why Yates became the starter, he has those same credentials.

Grossman and Sanchez had success, and then were benched. The difference however, is they actually had time starting between the success and the benching. Tebow has gotten no such shot after his success. Make sense? Of course it does, and now I'm waiting on your illogical response that misses the point.

You have to earn your spot in the NFL. If Tebow was showing on the practice field that he could get the job done then he would have been made the starter at some point. Matt Flynn wasn't given a starting spot in Seattle because on the practice field and in training camp/pre season he was outplayed. If Tebow goes some where and earns a starting job then great but you don't just give a guy with minimal success, who hasn't shown improvement a starting job.

 

[klunderbunker]

You said Tebow should start because of his success and a playoff victory. Regardless of why Yates became the starter, he has those same credentials.



You have to earn your spot in the NFL. If Tebow was showing on the practice field that he could get the job done then he would have been made the starter at some point. Matt Flynn wasn't given a starting spot in Seattle because on the practice field and in training camp/pre season he was outplayed. If Tebow goes some where and earns a starting job then great but you don't just give a guy with minimal success, who hasn't shown improvement a starting job.

Actually minimal success would be less than what McElroy has: zero. Tebow (who appropriately enough is on my TV in a commercial at the moment) has success, but apparently it doesn't count because of some stats you don't like, despite the fact that there are indeed more important things than numbers in sports, which you never seem to get.

 

[Big Sexy]

8-5 last year actually, if you include playoffs.

His career record is 8-6, 9-7 if you include playoffs.

Except for that playoff win against the best defense in the NFL, in which he threw for over 300 yards.

The Steelers played the run the entire game and Tebow completed passes to his skilled players when he needed to. Congratulations, he did his job well for ONE of his final 6 starts of the season. He was particularly awful in his start against Buffalo and 2 starts against New England. The Patriots had the 31st ranked defense, the Bills the 26th.

But he hasn't proven he IS shit, which is the point we're making. Tebow has won, Grossman and Sanchez have shown they will not.

5 of his last 6 starts last season prove otherwise. Regardless, I'm not banishing Tebow from the NFL. Just not ready to make him a starter.

False. Everyone here knows the hard on you have for black players. Just because you don't like Vince Young, that doesn't change your racist attitudes towards pro athletes.

I'm sorry that my favorite running back isn't Peyton Hillis and my favorite receiver isn't Wes Welker. I'll try to root more for Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison in the NBA. My three favorite NFL qb's happen to be Matt Stafford, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady. Outside of the quarterback position what % of skilled players in the NFL are white? I have a feeling it's a very small percentage.

 

[Big Sexy]

Actually minimal success would be less than what McElroy has: zero. Tebow (who appropriately enough is on my TV in a commercial at the moment) has success, but apparently it doesn't count because of some stats you don't like, despite the fact that there are indeed more important things than numbers in sports, which you never seem to get.

There are a lot more important things then numbers and most of those work against Tebow as well. Horrible mechanics, lack of arm strength, short arming throws, etc.. You can have all the intangibles in the world but that doesn't mean you can be successful as an NFL quarterback.

And the reason McElroy is starting isn't because everyone s under the impression he is going to be great or even better then Tebow. It's because the Jets have already decided they are going to part ways with Tebow so there is no reason to give him starts over a guy they still haven't decided on.

 

[klunderbunker]

There are a lot more important things then numbers and most of those work against Tebow as well. Horrible mechanics, lack of arm strength, short arming throws, etc.. You can have all the intangibles in the world but that doesn't mean you can be successful as an NFL quarterback.

Except for the fact that Tebow has been successful despite those lack of mechanical skills.

And the reason McElroy is starting isn't because everyone s under the impression he is going to be great or even better then Tebow. It's because the Jets have already decided they are going to part ways with Tebow so there is no reason to give him starts over a guy they still haven't decided on.

Then why wasn't Tebow third string all year? All of a sudden McElroy jumps over him? When even after that small part of a game he was in when Tebow was injured he didn't make the jump, but now he does? When exactly did Tebow prove he wasn't a long term solution? on the one drive he was in when he threw a single pass out of bounds to avoid a sack?

Not that any of this matters, because you, yes YOU, have decided that based off of most of a single season, Tebow has zero chance of ever improving to be a full time successful QB.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

What you fail to mention is that those two loses to the Patriots showed two things. One was that in a shootout, Tebow will fail. Two is that when the Broncos defense actually faced a good offense (Patriots, Lions) they get exposed for the overrated defense that they were. They held the Steelers because the Steelers offense was injured. And KB meant that Tebow has WON with a subpar Broncos team. What reason do we have that he couldn't do the same with a subpar Jets team?

 

[Big Sexy]

Then why wasn't Tebow third string all year? All of a sudden McElroy jumps over him? When even after that small part of a game he was in when Tebow was injured he didn't make the jump, but now he does? When exactly did Tebow prove he wasn't a long term solution? on the one drive he was in when he threw a single pass out of bounds to avoid a sack?

The reason McElroy was inactive was because most teams only have two active qbs every week. Considering Tebow plays on special teams and they have a specific offensive package with him in it, he is obviously going to be the second qb active.

Not that any of this matters, because you, yes YOU, have decided that based off of most of a single season, Tebow has zero chance of ever improving to be a full time successful QB.

When did I decide this? I'd probably put his chances at under 5% but I wouldn't say 0. I'm just not ready to make him a starter for an NFL franchise right now.

 

[klunderbunker]

What you fail to mention is that those two loses to the Patriots showed two things. One was that in a shootout, Tebow will fail. Two is that when the Broncos defense actually faced a good offense (Patriots, Lions) they get exposed for the overrated defense that they were. They held the Steelers because the Steelers offense was injured. And KB meant that Tebow has WON with a subpar Broncos team. What reason do we have that he couldn't do the same with a subpar Jets team?

Because somewhere along the line, the amount of wins stopped meaning as much as the stats you put up in those wins.

 

[klunderbunker]

The reason McElroy was inactive was because most teams only have two active qbs every week. Considering Tebow plays on special teams and they have a specific offensive package with him in it, he is obviously going to be the second qb active.


When did I decide this? I'd probably put his chances at under 5% but I wouldn't say 0. I'm just not ready to make him a starter for an NFL franchise right now.

That's because you're an idiot that won't listen to reason.

*Big Sexy makes an unfunny comeback saying so and so means that I'm the real idiot*

You're still an idiot that won't listen to reason after that.

 

[Big Sexy]

That's because you're an idiot that won't listen to reason.

My opinion is shared by most NFL analysts (many of whom played in the NFL and some played the qb position), GM's, current players, etc. Your opinion is shared by some Wrestlezone posters and Skip Bayless. I can listen to reason with the best of them but you're not giving me much worth listening to.

 

[klunderbunker]

My opinion is shared by most NFL analysts (many of whom played in the NFL and some played the qb position), GM's, current players, etc. Your opinion is shared by some Wrestlezone posters and Skip Bayless. I can listen to reason with the best of them but you're not giving me much worth listening to.

Good for them. I saw John Elway, as good a QB as has ever lived, saying that Tebow was the guy in Denver until the best QB in the world not named Brady became available. I'm going to take Elway's word over yours.

 

[justinsayne]

KB, you're a Cowboys fan if I remember right, would you rather have Tebow as the Cowboys starting QB or Romo? Just curious.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Uh, Elway did NOT want Tebow. Tebow was baggage left behind by McDaniels that Elway had nothing to do with.

Tebow was going whether or not they got Peyton. Peyton just made the transition easier because the fans weren't going to be in an uproar that they went out and got one of the 5-10 best QBs of all time.

 

[Slyfox696]

His career record is 8-6, 9-7 if you include playoffs.

I'm far more interested in what he did last year, than what he did at the end of his rookie year when his team was 3-10 when Tebow was given garbage time.

So 8-5 is the more accurate number.

The Steelers played the run the entire game and Tebow completed passes to his skilled players when he needed to.

So even though Tebow was throwing for 300 yards, it's only because of his "skilled players".

Good to see you being objective.

Congratulations, he did his job well for ONE of his final 6 starts of the season.

# of times Tebow has led a team to the playoffs in the last two years? 1. # of times Sanchez has done it in the last two years? 0.

He was particularly awful in his start against Buffalo and 2 starts against New England. The Patriots had the 31st ranked defense, the Bills the 26th.

Growing pains happen to everyone. Payton Manning was 3-13 in his first year starting and threw 28 INT. Oh and he wasn't bad at all in his first start against New England.

5 of his last 6 starts last season prove otherwise.

8 of his last 13 games prove my point. And Tebow didn't play bad at all against the Patriots in the first game. He completed 50% of his passes, threw for roughly 200 yards, ran for 93 more and scored 2 TD. Not a bad game at all against one of the best teams in the league.

Regardless, I'm not banishing Tebow from the NFL. Just not ready to make him a starter.

So until he puts up the stats you want to see (which apparently doesn't include wins or playoff appearances), Tebow shouldn't get to play.

Surely even you can see the problem with that logic.

I'm sorry that my favorite running back isn't Peyton Hillis and my favorite receiver isn't Wes Welker. I'll try to root more for Kirk Hinrich and Nick Collison in the NBA. My three favorite NFL qb's happen to be Matt Stafford, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady. Outside of the quarterback position what % of skilled players in the NFL are white? I have a feeling it's a very small percentage.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[klunderbunker]

Uh, Elway did NOT want Tebow. Tebow was baggage left behind by McDaniels that Elway had nothing to do with.

Tebow was going whether or not they got Peyton. Peyton just made the transition easier because the fans weren't going to be in an uproar that they went out and got one of the 5-10 best QBs of all time.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...n-elway-says-tim-tebow-starting-qb-going-camp

"Well, I think Tim's earned the right to be the starting quarterback going into training camp next year," Broncos boss John Elway declared at the beginning of a 40-minute news conference in which 24 of the 47 questions were about Tebow.

Not exactly.