I'm a WWE guy, and TNA put on the better show. Plain and simple. Better wrestling, and better storylines. The only thing I thought was good from Raw was to see Bret again. His promo with Shawn was amazing. That was about it. While TNA threw everything at WWE. Hardy, Flair, Hogan, and others. Then having an amazing Main Event. It wasn't even close.
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Jan 4th- Monday Night Raw vs TNA iMPACT
- Thread starter Enigma
- Start date
- Status
Maybe it was because I haven't watched TNA in a long time, but, dammit I marked out for that show. I have to admit, it felt like watching WcW in its heyday again(which I know, is not what most people want, but its better to me, than anything WWE or TNA had been doing).
I'll admit, non-wrestling wise, Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels was the best thing I saw tonight, promo wise, the Vince Bret promo was pretty good too, I take the first half as Vince's true feelings and the low blow a neccessary action since Hart's going to be sticking around.(They probably shoulda just let it go tho and let the good times roll, I think after everything was said people wanted to see a reconcilation more than anything)
Having said that, TNA delivered on so many levels, most of all the wrestling level. Realistically, if you like WRESTLING, TNA was the show tonight, notwitstanding the AMAZING Main-Event between Styles and Angle, there was a Knockout Title match better than any Diva's match theirs been in a long time, a KO Tag-Title match that was one of the best Divas matches I've ever seen(again haven't watched TNA in a long time, so I haven't seen more than a few KO matches.) Stevie and Raven VS Hernadez and Morgan was a squash match, but it was well done. Raven and Stevie are either hasbeens or never was's, Morgan and Hern are monsters and the future, that was perfect. Abyss VS Joe was a good match, showcasing two TNA mainstays, nothing more nothing less, just a good match.
D'Angelo VS Wolfe was a great match, an example of something you never see in WWE, the Midcard showing off. Remember the days when Road Dogg, Godfather, Venis, etc got to show their shit on the mic and have intruiging matches all their own, this reminded me of that. Dinero showed his shit both on the Mic and in the ring, and looked great, Wolfe who I hadn't gotten to see wrestle till tonight, was amazing in the ring. Shit I'd never seen before and stuff I could take seriously on any level. Had to give that a paragraph of its own.
The Steel Asylum Match sucked, but mostly because of poor execution, you couldn't see through that dumb red cage, it ended in a fucking dq, and they blew Hardy's return which would've been big if that match wasn't done SO poorly.
Things I didn't like mostly had to do with the promo's although almost every one was good in someway, I liked Hogans promo before the nWo came out, then it picked up again after Eric Bichoff came out, hes a great talker, no doubt about it.
-Didn't like that Hogan had so much time on the air, didn't like that he came in saying everyone would have to earn their spot, not counting himself of course.
-Lashley....who cares, the guy isn't an MMA star, he was barely a WWE star
-Strip poker with Val Venis, well I actually didn't mind that, could've been left off this particular show though.
-I hate the Nasty Boys, but I do want to see them fight Team 3D in the hopes that it turns into a shoot. If they we're to be gone right after that it'd be perfect.
-Didn't like Jeff Jarrett being shat on, hate him or love him(I personally actually dislike him), without the Jarretts there wouldn't be any TNA, Hogan came off like a total prick and heel.
-Backstage attacks, I'm guessing the nWo did that, hopefully not though, really hope its someone else and the nWo just play henchmen of some sort. --Christy Hemme looked great, did her job well, thought I'd throw that in.
All in all, I just thought Impact was the better show tonight, it was what I wanted to see most, a great WRESTLING show. Throw in a LOT of nostalgia, a lot of potential for growth, the fact that this is NOT a PG show, and if they can pull a show like this off VS the type of shows that Raw puts on every week, I'd watch Impact every time.
Raw tonight, was just more of the same old formula we've been seeing over and over again. Hornswaggle was still there, Santino was still there, all the matches seemed like carbon copies of each other, the little guys had no chance, the Divas sucked(This is a seriously glaring difference between the WWE and TNA, I'd've watched that Tag KO match over any match on Raw tonight, I AM NOT JOKING) The only reason to watch tonight was Bret Hart, and while Shawn VS Bret delievered big time, Vince VS Bret is now just more of the same, I thought that a Bret/Vince feud would work, but now I realize that I just wanted to see it buried and just have Bret back on TV.
Overall, Impact was sloppy and something of a clusterfuck, but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy it.
I'll admit, non-wrestling wise, Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels was the best thing I saw tonight, promo wise, the Vince Bret promo was pretty good too, I take the first half as Vince's true feelings and the low blow a neccessary action since Hart's going to be sticking around.(They probably shoulda just let it go tho and let the good times roll, I think after everything was said people wanted to see a reconcilation more than anything)
Having said that, TNA delivered on so many levels, most of all the wrestling level. Realistically, if you like WRESTLING, TNA was the show tonight, notwitstanding the AMAZING Main-Event between Styles and Angle, there was a Knockout Title match better than any Diva's match theirs been in a long time, a KO Tag-Title match that was one of the best Divas matches I've ever seen(again haven't watched TNA in a long time, so I haven't seen more than a few KO matches.) Stevie and Raven VS Hernadez and Morgan was a squash match, but it was well done. Raven and Stevie are either hasbeens or never was's, Morgan and Hern are monsters and the future, that was perfect. Abyss VS Joe was a good match, showcasing two TNA mainstays, nothing more nothing less, just a good match.
D'Angelo VS Wolfe was a great match, an example of something you never see in WWE, the Midcard showing off. Remember the days when Road Dogg, Godfather, Venis, etc got to show their shit on the mic and have intruiging matches all their own, this reminded me of that. Dinero showed his shit both on the Mic and in the ring, and looked great, Wolfe who I hadn't gotten to see wrestle till tonight, was amazing in the ring. Shit I'd never seen before and stuff I could take seriously on any level. Had to give that a paragraph of its own.
The Steel Asylum Match sucked, but mostly because of poor execution, you couldn't see through that dumb red cage, it ended in a fucking dq, and they blew Hardy's return which would've been big if that match wasn't done SO poorly.
Things I didn't like mostly had to do with the promo's although almost every one was good in someway, I liked Hogans promo before the nWo came out, then it picked up again after Eric Bichoff came out, hes a great talker, no doubt about it.
-Didn't like that Hogan had so much time on the air, didn't like that he came in saying everyone would have to earn their spot, not counting himself of course.
-Lashley....who cares, the guy isn't an MMA star, he was barely a WWE star
-Strip poker with Val Venis, well I actually didn't mind that, could've been left off this particular show though.
-I hate the Nasty Boys, but I do want to see them fight Team 3D in the hopes that it turns into a shoot. If they we're to be gone right after that it'd be perfect.
-Didn't like Jeff Jarrett being shat on, hate him or love him(I personally actually dislike him), without the Jarretts there wouldn't be any TNA, Hogan came off like a total prick and heel.
-Backstage attacks, I'm guessing the nWo did that, hopefully not though, really hope its someone else and the nWo just play henchmen of some sort. --Christy Hemme looked great, did her job well, thought I'd throw that in.
All in all, I just thought Impact was the better show tonight, it was what I wanted to see most, a great WRESTLING show. Throw in a LOT of nostalgia, a lot of potential for growth, the fact that this is NOT a PG show, and if they can pull a show like this off VS the type of shows that Raw puts on every week, I'd watch Impact every time.
Raw tonight, was just more of the same old formula we've been seeing over and over again. Hornswaggle was still there, Santino was still there, all the matches seemed like carbon copies of each other, the little guys had no chance, the Divas sucked(This is a seriously glaring difference between the WWE and TNA, I'd've watched that Tag KO match over any match on Raw tonight, I AM NOT JOKING) The only reason to watch tonight was Bret Hart, and while Shawn VS Bret delievered big time, Vince VS Bret is now just more of the same, I thought that a Bret/Vince feud would work, but now I realize that I just wanted to see it buried and just have Bret back on TV.
Overall, Impact was sloppy and something of a clusterfuck, but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy it.
Crazyblade
Dark Match Jobber
The main event for TNA was amazing. Simple. 4 days into the New Year and they put on a contender for Match Of The Year. Amazing. There were other cool moments in Impact as well (and a couple of dodgy ones too lol!). As for Raw?? One cool segment with Bret and Shawn and not much else, which was hugely disappointing. And the ending sucked tbh.
DropkickNathan
New Member
TNA is my favorite, and TNA came out the clear victor entertainment wise! Ratings wise I don't see them getting past WWE but I see them getting that 3.0 or higher.
Bret Hart returning was hyped for a week...Hulk Hogan was hyped for months. Brets return to me was just a simple "blah" and Hulk Hogan...Jesus, It gave me goosebumps!
Bret Hart returning was hyped for a week...Hulk Hogan was hyped for months. Brets return to me was just a simple "blah" and Hulk Hogan...Jesus, It gave me goosebumps!
I don't think that this Impact is going to score a 3, maybe a 2.5 over the whole show? I think realistically that its just good for TNA going forward.
Bret Hart had a good return, that was definately one of the best things I've seen in the WWE in a VERY long time, and by extention wrestling, but other than that it was Raw as usual. Usually I give Vince credit for just ignoring TNA and TNA flack for mentioning and WWE so much, but this is one time Vince should've put on a big show. But TBH, I don't think they knew what they should be preparing for, while in the meantime, TNA had been stockpiling a bunch of talent, that to me was very underwhelming when I was seeing it one by one, but when the whole show was put together I marked out big time. I think Vince is going to try and come back with big shows heading into the future and possily rethink his direction if TNA can get really hot.
Bret Hart had a good return, that was definately one of the best things I've seen in the WWE in a VERY long time, and by extention wrestling, but other than that it was Raw as usual. Usually I give Vince credit for just ignoring TNA and TNA flack for mentioning and WWE so much, but this is one time Vince should've put on a big show. But TBH, I don't think they knew what they should be preparing for, while in the meantime, TNA had been stockpiling a bunch of talent, that to me was very underwhelming when I was seeing it one by one, but when the whole show was put together I marked out big time. I think Vince is going to try and come back with big shows heading into the future and possily rethink his direction if TNA can get really hot.
TheBestThereEverWillBe
Excellence of Execution
I grew up (and still am) a hardcore WWE/F fan and Bret Hart is my 2nd favorite wrestler of all time(#1 is Macho Man) and i've never seen a TNA show in my life because i've been in japan for the last 2 years and i only have access to WWE shows. with all of that playing factors, i STILL think TNA put on a much better show. TNA put up so many more big names and factions to where WWE was only able to get Hart. TNA also set up so much more for the future in this one show to where WWE only set up the vince and bret thing. so much more new $hit going on in TNA as to where WWE is still kind of messing around with the same stuff. WWE needs a huge change soon because TNA is coming, and they are charging fast.
andres torti
Dark Match Winner
I think TNA had a better show,but I think it was only because of the new stars and because you didnt allways knew what was going to happen in the show.But I think like almost everybody that wen Bret was on tv we changed channel and watched the Hitman.And that what counts,you know what you are going to get from WWE,they have the best there,plus a lot of fans.I would love to see the ratings.
But TNA was really fun to watch even if it was a litlle bit crazy and somethimes a little bit boring(some of the matches),i had a great time watching it.I also felt a little bit sad,because its a shame that people like Scott Hall(he needs really a work out),Kevin Nash and a fiew others of them get old
But TNA was really fun to watch even if it was a litlle bit crazy and somethimes a little bit boring(some of the matches),i had a great time watching it.I also felt a little bit sad,because its a shame that people like Scott Hall(he needs really a work out),Kevin Nash and a fiew others of them get old
Dragonslayer
Getting Noticed By Management
Well, I more or less watched both shows... first hour of TNA of course, but then I needed to switch to see The Hitman return.
Now first off, I gotta say it's really been a long time that I've been so excited about watching wrestling as I was last night. Of course there was a lot of hype there, and we all knew much of it would most likely be unwarranted, but overall, I felt that January 4th delivered.
As for TNA, I think they did a good job. I agree when people say that a lot of things were rushed; actually Jeff Hardy appearing at TNA was the biggest slap in Vince's face of the entire night, since he really is the only guy that has a big enough name TODAY to draw over fans - especially younger fans who don't know any of the old WCW/nWo era - from WWE; too bad Homicide was incapable of climbing out that cage and the whole segment blew. Besides, having a DQ in a Cage Match? W-T-F??? While technically, it would have been a cool thing to start off the show with an impressive cage match, the poor execution killed the momentum a bit. Jeff showing up was ok, but since he's most likely not to be signed to a long-term contract anyway, it didn't really matter that much.
Hogan and the old nWo crew appearing was a nice thing, but I agree, they did have too much air time. I was really impressed by all segments I saw involving Eric Bischoff, once he was on the microphone, you had the feeling that business WAS indeed picking up - not because of what he said (that was Hogan's job), but how he said it; you could just see that he still got "it" and knows how to work in front of a camera, something a lot of the "young guys" still need to learn. The only good thing about the nWo (and especially Hall) being there, is that they know how to talk. Hopefully they'll keep wrestling to a minimum; Hogan and Flair should just be "mentor" characters to someone, and Hall & Nash, if at all, should wrestle only very occasionally. Hogan said it, but he also needs to do it - focus on the young guys.
Wrestling wise, it was a really good show other than the opening bout, the Knockouts' matches were impressive, considering the pure and utter crap WWE tries to pass off as wrestling when Divas are involved, and the Main Event with Angle vs AJ was of course absolutely great. I was actually believing they might have the title change hands on this show, and not on a PPV, just to send a message to WWE. But well, the match still was great and wrestling-wise, TNA blew WWE out of the water.
Now of course TNA still has a lot of work to do. Storylines need more focus, and need to be more elaborately planned out and delivered better. There was still this slightly "choatic" feeling last night, probably because the show was so over-stuffed with returned and surprises. Flair's appearance should by all means have been bigger, instead of just appearing backstage, and maybe it would have been smarter not to blow up all the ammo TNA got in the first show. Half of the returns would have sufficed, I suppose.
As far as WWE is concerned, I simply needed to see Bret return. And it was awesome. Pure 100% goosebump moment when his (actually new!) theme music kicked in and was still instantly recognizable. Hart appeared truly moved when he walked down the aisle, and thankfully, he looked in far better condition than when I remembered him from his HoF induction a few years ago. Back then, he seemed bitter and somehow unhappy; last night, it really looked like he had moved on - not from what he said, but just by his demeanor (and of course by simply BEING there) - and that was really the best thing about it. To be honest, I don't care where that storyline with Vince goes; I just hope Bret doesn't take any unnecessary bumps or anything and risks his health, it just wouldn't be worth it. For me as a wrestling fan who grew up in his era, it was just simply good to see him finally get over this - and even if we were all half-expecting Shawn Michaels to deliver SCM when both guys were standing in pretty much the perfect spot for it, I think it was handled well.
However... and that is a big however... the rest of RAW, except for anything involving Bret Hart of course, was just so ordinary and utterly "meh", it was really disappointing. Now I understand Vince doesn't want to acknowledge TNA even exists, and even if he pulled out Bret like a rabbit from his hat to react even just a little to their throwing of the gauntlet on Monday Nights, the rest of the show screamed "YAWN" all throughout the night. It was just such a very basic and uneventful episode of RAW, with all the stuff TNA has been throwing out, it seemed really uninteresting. The matches were nothing special, pretty much everything TNA had happen in the ring was head and shoulders above WWE's matches. Kofi vs Orton was ok, and so was DX vs Jerishow... but nothing more than ok, and it certainly was NOT Kurt Angle vs AJ.
So all in all, and even though I think it will barely show in the ratings (because ratings just don't jump in such high numbers in only one night), I will have to award last night to TNA. You could really see that TNA were in it with their heart, and you could tell that Vince/WWE wasn't. For WWE, it was business as usual with the exception of Bret Hart; but for TNA, it was all-out war, and they were pulling out all the stops and throwing in everything they had; and "throwing in everything you've got" is just what made the Monday Night Wars what they were. Both companies had to be at their very best in order to compete with the other. TNA last night was, even if it's still very rough around the eges. WWE wasn't, not by a long shot.
If TNA can somehow manage to move to bigger arenas and get their product to simply look more like the "big leagues" as well, and Hogan keeps all his promises on and off camera and really focuses on the talented guys in TNA, TNA have a chance I think. But it's going to be a long, hard road for them, and they have a tougher task ahead of them than WCW had back in the day. The only thing that's the same really is that then and now, WWE had a stale product. However, these days, WWE's monopoly is just so much bigger than it was back then, and TNA doesn't nearly have the financial capacity WCW had. Plus, they key players of the nWo era are now 15 years older and no longer in shape to carry a company, so the new guys have to step up and take their spots. It sure is going to be interesting to see where the wrestling industry moves from here.
Personally, I was not at all disappointed with Jan 4th. It was good to see Hogan, Flair, Sting, Hall, Nash, Waltman etc - the old nWo-era crew of WCW - back and add some credibility in name value alone to TNA. But those guys must... MUST... know that it can no longer be up to them to carry the ball. They can be mentors and guides for the up-and-comers, but can't take too much of the spotlight. And I just wonder if they'll manage to step back into the second row.
I guess it's really up to Spike now whether they'll give TNA a shot at a live Monday Night Impact every month or so, and it will also depend on the ratings... But I suppose the ratings will still be very much in favor of WWE for last night, because as said - things don't change overnight. TNA will have to put on a strong product in the weeks to come, and I think their biggest advantage right now is that they can do all the things WWE can't do anymore (esp. due to the PG rating). Because if they fight with the same weapons, TNA will lose - WWE just has the bigger guns. But if TNA go over the edge, much like WWE did in the Attitude days, they might have a shot.
So let's wait and see where we move from here - but overall, I truly hope (and to a certain extent, believe) that wrestling will be getting a bit more interesting from here on out. So here's to the Monday Night Wars v2.0!
Now first off, I gotta say it's really been a long time that I've been so excited about watching wrestling as I was last night. Of course there was a lot of hype there, and we all knew much of it would most likely be unwarranted, but overall, I felt that January 4th delivered.
As for TNA, I think they did a good job. I agree when people say that a lot of things were rushed; actually Jeff Hardy appearing at TNA was the biggest slap in Vince's face of the entire night, since he really is the only guy that has a big enough name TODAY to draw over fans - especially younger fans who don't know any of the old WCW/nWo era - from WWE; too bad Homicide was incapable of climbing out that cage and the whole segment blew. Besides, having a DQ in a Cage Match? W-T-F??? While technically, it would have been a cool thing to start off the show with an impressive cage match, the poor execution killed the momentum a bit. Jeff showing up was ok, but since he's most likely not to be signed to a long-term contract anyway, it didn't really matter that much.
Hogan and the old nWo crew appearing was a nice thing, but I agree, they did have too much air time. I was really impressed by all segments I saw involving Eric Bischoff, once he was on the microphone, you had the feeling that business WAS indeed picking up - not because of what he said (that was Hogan's job), but how he said it; you could just see that he still got "it" and knows how to work in front of a camera, something a lot of the "young guys" still need to learn. The only good thing about the nWo (and especially Hall) being there, is that they know how to talk. Hopefully they'll keep wrestling to a minimum; Hogan and Flair should just be "mentor" characters to someone, and Hall & Nash, if at all, should wrestle only very occasionally. Hogan said it, but he also needs to do it - focus on the young guys.
Wrestling wise, it was a really good show other than the opening bout, the Knockouts' matches were impressive, considering the pure and utter crap WWE tries to pass off as wrestling when Divas are involved, and the Main Event with Angle vs AJ was of course absolutely great. I was actually believing they might have the title change hands on this show, and not on a PPV, just to send a message to WWE. But well, the match still was great and wrestling-wise, TNA blew WWE out of the water.
Now of course TNA still has a lot of work to do. Storylines need more focus, and need to be more elaborately planned out and delivered better. There was still this slightly "choatic" feeling last night, probably because the show was so over-stuffed with returned and surprises. Flair's appearance should by all means have been bigger, instead of just appearing backstage, and maybe it would have been smarter not to blow up all the ammo TNA got in the first show. Half of the returns would have sufficed, I suppose.
As far as WWE is concerned, I simply needed to see Bret return. And it was awesome. Pure 100% goosebump moment when his (actually new!) theme music kicked in and was still instantly recognizable. Hart appeared truly moved when he walked down the aisle, and thankfully, he looked in far better condition than when I remembered him from his HoF induction a few years ago. Back then, he seemed bitter and somehow unhappy; last night, it really looked like he had moved on - not from what he said, but just by his demeanor (and of course by simply BEING there) - and that was really the best thing about it. To be honest, I don't care where that storyline with Vince goes; I just hope Bret doesn't take any unnecessary bumps or anything and risks his health, it just wouldn't be worth it. For me as a wrestling fan who grew up in his era, it was just simply good to see him finally get over this - and even if we were all half-expecting Shawn Michaels to deliver SCM when both guys were standing in pretty much the perfect spot for it, I think it was handled well.
However... and that is a big however... the rest of RAW, except for anything involving Bret Hart of course, was just so ordinary and utterly "meh", it was really disappointing. Now I understand Vince doesn't want to acknowledge TNA even exists, and even if he pulled out Bret like a rabbit from his hat to react even just a little to their throwing of the gauntlet on Monday Nights, the rest of the show screamed "YAWN" all throughout the night. It was just such a very basic and uneventful episode of RAW, with all the stuff TNA has been throwing out, it seemed really uninteresting. The matches were nothing special, pretty much everything TNA had happen in the ring was head and shoulders above WWE's matches. Kofi vs Orton was ok, and so was DX vs Jerishow... but nothing more than ok, and it certainly was NOT Kurt Angle vs AJ.
So all in all, and even though I think it will barely show in the ratings (because ratings just don't jump in such high numbers in only one night), I will have to award last night to TNA. You could really see that TNA were in it with their heart, and you could tell that Vince/WWE wasn't. For WWE, it was business as usual with the exception of Bret Hart; but for TNA, it was all-out war, and they were pulling out all the stops and throwing in everything they had; and "throwing in everything you've got" is just what made the Monday Night Wars what they were. Both companies had to be at their very best in order to compete with the other. TNA last night was, even if it's still very rough around the eges. WWE wasn't, not by a long shot.
If TNA can somehow manage to move to bigger arenas and get their product to simply look more like the "big leagues" as well, and Hogan keeps all his promises on and off camera and really focuses on the talented guys in TNA, TNA have a chance I think. But it's going to be a long, hard road for them, and they have a tougher task ahead of them than WCW had back in the day. The only thing that's the same really is that then and now, WWE had a stale product. However, these days, WWE's monopoly is just so much bigger than it was back then, and TNA doesn't nearly have the financial capacity WCW had. Plus, they key players of the nWo era are now 15 years older and no longer in shape to carry a company, so the new guys have to step up and take their spots. It sure is going to be interesting to see where the wrestling industry moves from here.
Personally, I was not at all disappointed with Jan 4th. It was good to see Hogan, Flair, Sting, Hall, Nash, Waltman etc - the old nWo-era crew of WCW - back and add some credibility in name value alone to TNA. But those guys must... MUST... know that it can no longer be up to them to carry the ball. They can be mentors and guides for the up-and-comers, but can't take too much of the spotlight. And I just wonder if they'll manage to step back into the second row.
I guess it's really up to Spike now whether they'll give TNA a shot at a live Monday Night Impact every month or so, and it will also depend on the ratings... But I suppose the ratings will still be very much in favor of WWE for last night, because as said - things don't change overnight. TNA will have to put on a strong product in the weeks to come, and I think their biggest advantage right now is that they can do all the things WWE can't do anymore (esp. due to the PG rating). Because if they fight with the same weapons, TNA will lose - WWE just has the bigger guns. But if TNA go over the edge, much like WWE did in the Attitude days, they might have a shot.
So let's wait and see where we move from here - but overall, I truly hope (and to a certain extent, believe) that wrestling will be getting a bit more interesting from here on out. So here's to the Monday Night Wars v2.0!
Impact was good but not better than Raw last night. It felt like I was watching WCW all over again last night, everything just seemed so out of control. There was alot of awkward moments too, such as the long pause before Bischoff got the script, homocide struggling to get out the cage, and the horrible poker segment. Im not a tna fan but I will watch tna next week to see what happens but raw was the better show. Bret Hart returned and spoke from the heart, jerishow vs DX was a good match, orton vs kofi was entertaining, plus the seeds for a bret vs mcmahon feud have been planted.
Oh dear. I wasn't particularly excited for either show, and what happened last night pretty much vindicated my reservations. TNA had an excellent main event, but an excellent wrestling match though it was, it will have lost viewers. That is not what fairweather fans want to see. TNA threw some big suprises, but the first hour was abysmal. Jeff Hardy's debut, while suprising, came after a lacklustre opening bout with a nonsensical finish. The second and third hours were much better, but on an evening when most people would be turning to Raw at 9, that was not the way to do things.
The biggest problem with TNA though was the exposure. Christopher Daniels, their most recent championship challenger had one segment, the Nasty Boys had three or four. Presumably Daniels has a future in the company and they don't, so there needs to be a reassessment there. Right now, to any fan, Daniels is a bigger name then the Nasty Boys.
The final TNA thing I'll touch upon is that there was a lot suprise, but little substance. We got some sort of nWo reunion and the fact that they don't like Foley, but its been done to death and nobody cared about the visibly worse for wear Hall and Waltham when they first appeared. The only other servicible programme coming out of the event was Homicide and Hardy, which may be cut short soon, if Hardy's legal troubles get any worse. It was a solid 8 out of 10 one off show, but it is not the sort of thing that they will be able to take to a weekly rival format just yet.
Raw was most definitely a worse show. As I predicted, Vince countered TNA with pretty much nothing. Bret was there, but he featured three times in the show. He was a lot better than I expected him to be, but I can't help but feel short changed by his segments. I couldn't help but think that Bret wanted to make it clear that he was bigger than Montreal at all costs and that the writing had been changed to reflect that.
Everything else about the show was just like any other Raw. I didn't watch Orton vs Kingston, but the Gods of wrestling ensured that that was the only time where I couldn't watch one channel and listen to the other, and still get the picture. I'm going to assume, being a Randy Orton match without John Cena, that it wasn't very good. Raw was as stale as it has ever been, and if you removed the main event confrontation between Hart and Vince, it was worse than we have seen in recent weeks. No suprises on Raw, no great matches and no John Cena seriously hurt it. I'd probably give Raw about a 4 out of 10, maybe a 5 because Hart was better than I thought he'd be.
The sad fact of it all though is that Raw will cream, and I mean cream TNA in the ratings still. TNA put on one of the best TV matches I've seen in quite some time, and Raw's champion beat Evan Bourne in a squash, and yet TNA will lose heavily. TNA didn't do enough to make their show look compelling for future viewing either, so I think it's back to the Thursday night drawing board for at least another 6 months for them. I did realise though that Eric Bischoff has appeared to learn from his mistakes, and he could be the man for TNA.
I'm interested to see people's ratings predictions. People are talking about 4.1 for Raw and 2 for Impact. That's ridiculous. Even if we assumed that Raw's best for the last year, 4.1, and Impact's best, 1.4, was made up of entirely different people, that leaves us with a wrestling audience capacity of 5.5. I think a much more realistic figure is about 4.8, and based on the quality of each show, I expect to see Raw draw a lacklustre 3.8, and TNA to draw 1.0 or less. Time will tell, but I think rather than winning the first battle of the Monday Night Wars, TNA merely marched into the neutral zone, while WWE did nothing.
The biggest problem with TNA though was the exposure. Christopher Daniels, their most recent championship challenger had one segment, the Nasty Boys had three or four. Presumably Daniels has a future in the company and they don't, so there needs to be a reassessment there. Right now, to any fan, Daniels is a bigger name then the Nasty Boys.
The final TNA thing I'll touch upon is that there was a lot suprise, but little substance. We got some sort of nWo reunion and the fact that they don't like Foley, but its been done to death and nobody cared about the visibly worse for wear Hall and Waltham when they first appeared. The only other servicible programme coming out of the event was Homicide and Hardy, which may be cut short soon, if Hardy's legal troubles get any worse. It was a solid 8 out of 10 one off show, but it is not the sort of thing that they will be able to take to a weekly rival format just yet.
Raw was most definitely a worse show. As I predicted, Vince countered TNA with pretty much nothing. Bret was there, but he featured three times in the show. He was a lot better than I expected him to be, but I can't help but feel short changed by his segments. I couldn't help but think that Bret wanted to make it clear that he was bigger than Montreal at all costs and that the writing had been changed to reflect that.
Everything else about the show was just like any other Raw. I didn't watch Orton vs Kingston, but the Gods of wrestling ensured that that was the only time where I couldn't watch one channel and listen to the other, and still get the picture. I'm going to assume, being a Randy Orton match without John Cena, that it wasn't very good. Raw was as stale as it has ever been, and if you removed the main event confrontation between Hart and Vince, it was worse than we have seen in recent weeks. No suprises on Raw, no great matches and no John Cena seriously hurt it. I'd probably give Raw about a 4 out of 10, maybe a 5 because Hart was better than I thought he'd be.
The sad fact of it all though is that Raw will cream, and I mean cream TNA in the ratings still. TNA put on one of the best TV matches I've seen in quite some time, and Raw's champion beat Evan Bourne in a squash, and yet TNA will lose heavily. TNA didn't do enough to make their show look compelling for future viewing either, so I think it's back to the Thursday night drawing board for at least another 6 months for them. I did realise though that Eric Bischoff has appeared to learn from his mistakes, and he could be the man for TNA.
I'm interested to see people's ratings predictions. People are talking about 4.1 for Raw and 2 for Impact. That's ridiculous. Even if we assumed that Raw's best for the last year, 4.1, and Impact's best, 1.4, was made up of entirely different people, that leaves us with a wrestling audience capacity of 5.5. I think a much more realistic figure is about 4.8, and based on the quality of each show, I expect to see Raw draw a lacklustre 3.8, and TNA to draw 1.0 or less. Time will tell, but I think rather than winning the first battle of the Monday Night Wars, TNA merely marched into the neutral zone, while WWE did nothing.
For me TNA had a better show all together, but let be honest, is not like the WWE really tried to have a superb show. The matches they announced were good but to me the entirely show was about Bret and Bret burying the hatchet.
They didn't started it like and it was not meant to crush TNA, I think Vince is acknowledging TNA and will allow Hogan and TNA to give him a run for his money. I thing deep down inside, Vince wants TNA to have at least alittel bit of success so they have some real competition.
They didn't started it like and it was not meant to crush TNA, I think Vince is acknowledging TNA and will allow Hogan and TNA to give him a run for his money. I thing deep down inside, Vince wants TNA to have at least alittel bit of success so they have some real competition.
jimpedro419
Dark Match Jobber
Really let me say really TNA was amazing NOT!!!. It was horrible the whole ending was enough to make me throw up in my mouth and want to spit it on my wife. What WWE did was set itsself up for wrestlemania so good bye tna that wrestling sucks and will always suck.
neildittmar
Getting Noticed By Management
Before Monday night, BOTH companies were pretty blah to me. WWE had some better personalities, but the wrestling rarely rose above mediocre. TNA had better wrestling, but I didn't care one iota about the talent. So going in, I just wanted a solid wrestling product despite which company put it out.
If I had to pick a winner, I'd pick TNA... not because they "crushed" WWE or won a ratings war. Those points are almost irrelevant, as it was one night after all. They "won" simply because they stepped up their game and are trying to be great. They set a good foundation tonight that will hopefully get built upon over the following weeks and months.
My opinion is that Vince and company didn't really compete with TNA last night because they don't see them as real competition. Right now, TNA is competing with themselves mostly... to convince fans that they're major league and have any business being spoken about in the same context as WWE. They made great strides in doing that last night for a variety of reasons. Let's see what happens next.
If I had to pick a winner, I'd pick TNA... not because they "crushed" WWE or won a ratings war. Those points are almost irrelevant, as it was one night after all. They "won" simply because they stepped up their game and are trying to be great. They set a good foundation tonight that will hopefully get built upon over the following weeks and months.
My opinion is that Vince and company didn't really compete with TNA last night because they don't see them as real competition. Right now, TNA is competing with themselves mostly... to convince fans that they're major league and have any business being spoken about in the same context as WWE. They made great strides in doing that last night for a variety of reasons. Let's see what happens next.
I tried to warn everyone... don't give into the hype of either show or else you'll probably wind up being disappointed. And I was right.
Last night we were supposed to witness an epic battle between two wrestling organizations. David versus Goliath. TNA vs. WWE. We were supposed to be priviledged enough to see compelling television from both programs, epic and shocking returns, incredible matches, and the genesis of a new battle between wrestling promotions that would finally pacify the long-time viewers who have been craving competition for the WWE. Instead, we were franticaly flipping the channels back and forth between two shows that were filled with confusion, boredom, garbage, blown spots, and crapfests.
Let's sit back for a minute and really scan over each show... was one REALLY superior over the other? As a matter of fact, from an overall perspective, was either show (dare I say) any good at all?? To do this, I'm going to break these shows down by listing categories that I personally feel need to be a part of a wrestling program in order to hit a home run with the audience, and I'll score the shows based on those categories. These categories will be:
Promos
Storyline Direction
In-Ring Wrestling Matches
Overall Entertainment Value
WWE Raw
The show began with a nice promo package of Bret Hart's history and demise in the WWE. Then the WWE came out swinging and began the actual show with the Bret Hart/HBK confrontation segment. The segment and Bret's exposure on Raw was exactly what it should have been... it provided closure for the long-time wrestling fans in regards to the Montreal incident instead of forcing Bret to act like a typical, weekly, wannabe-authority-figure-type host that nobody gives two shits about.
The meat of the show provided average-at-best matches and was a typical Raw program with mediocre substance. The only other focal points of the program worth mentioning were: Maryse's further strengthening as a believable women's title contender, more teasing of Legacy's breakup, DX retains their tag titles which finally eliminates Jericho from Raw, MVP is now the #1 contender for the US Title, and we know that Stu Hart will finally get his long-overdue welcome into this year's WWE HOF.
Promos: 4.5/5.0
Storyline Direction: 4.5/5.0
In-Ring Wrestling Matches: 2.5/5.0
Overall Entertainment Value: 3.0/5.0
Overall, BORRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG... Bret's return, the Montreal Screwjob Closure promo with HBK, and the betrayal by Vince to set up a match at Wrestlemania were the only things that made this show worth watching for me (well, besides Maryse). But then again, does that surprise anyone? Besides that, the WWE did their usual good job of keeping the show flowing in the right direction and building up future matches and storylines. However, their matches were pure dogshit and overall, I wasn't very entertained by what I watched. Two groundbreaking segments aren't enough to make an entire two-hour show worth watching for me. Especially when their top draw is missing from the show.
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TNA Impact
After a few teases during the commercials of the previous show on Spike TV, Impact began just like any other show, really. I was texting my friends right before the show began, predicting that TNA would bring in Hogan at around 8:56pm-8:57pm to dominate the 9pm overrun against the start of WWE's Raw broadcast.
Impact began with a steel asylum match that was one of the biggest clusterfuck blunders that I had ever seen on wrestling television. Besides a few quick, high-impact spots in the ring, I was bored to tears with this match. Then, the unthinkable happened... TNA's version of a steel cage match ended in a *gulp* no contest?!? Then, Homicide decides to be Superman by attempting to climb out of the cage and miserably and embarrassingly fails, wasting 5 minutes of television time and showing even MORE flaws in what was to be one of TNA's top drawing and innovative match-types?? Sure, Jeff Hardy came out afterwards and beat him up, but where does this go from here? Is Jeff officially on the TNA roster now? Was it a one-time appearance? Will Homicide's psychotic, new persona come to terms with the fact that he can't climb out of a cage? Was the crowd ever going to stop chanting "This is bullshit"? All in all, this was an utterly embarrassing and awful way to start the show.
Next, we have the TNA KO championship match and a title change, due to ODB's predicted heel turn as she wins by showing the world Tara's gorgeous, bare ass (which the camera had to cut away from) by gripping the tights for a rollup victory. Meh...
Ric Flair arrives and enters AJ Styles' locker room. Hmmm... surprising and interesting.
Bobby Lashley and his wife come to the ring and cut a promo, turning Lashley heel, explaining that he is asking to be released from his TNA contact. Did anyone else give two flying squirts of piss about this? I sure didn't.
The Beautiful People decided to act like total ****es and tease the audience with a strip poker game. Is it just me, or do you also feel that the direction for their characters isn't much of a stretch? Anyway... Later on, Val Venis showed up to join the game. Whoopie. (Um, where's Angelina Love?)
Then, the long-awaited arrival of Hulk Hogan began just as I predicted... at 8:57pm. Just prior, we saw some segments with Hall and Pac trying to get into the building and now they managed to get their hands on front-row seats in the entranceway for Hogan's arrival. Hogan enters the ring, milks the crowd for all it's worth (thereby further stroking his ego), and begins to cut a promo about TNA's new direction under his guidance. Then, everyone gets what they were waiting for as, one by one, members of the former nWo faction make their way out to the ring. Then, a clusterfuck of a promo began. Scott Hall moved his cheeks out of the way to say "Hey Yo" a few times, Waltman miserably attempted to toss in a few lines of the promo and looked like a crack addict that just fell out of the tanning booth, Nash proceeded to speak in circles (as he normally does) and Hogan and Bischoff tried to put the big kabash on any rumors of an nWo reincarnation. All of this while Sting viewed from the rafters. Basically, TNA pacified the WCW marks with the same shit that we all watched over a decade ago.
Then we have New KO Tag Champions as a result of a great, solid match by TNA's top in-ring KO workers, an appearance by the Nasty Boys (WTF?!?), a last minute, thrown-together tag team of Morgan and Hernandez earned a TNA tag title shot at Genesis (that they'll probably lose), Orlando Jordan makes a cameo (another WTF?!?), and the Pope defeated Desmond Wolfe in a ho-hum match. *YAWN* Then, Bischoff announces that AJ Styles is to take on Kurt Angle in the main event at Impact. Finally... something makes sense.
Hogan and Jarrett exchange promo points and Hogan throws some more of his ego around. Gee... there's a shocker.
Now, welcome to the craziest segments of the show. We're shown everything from Kristal getting into it with Bischoff, to the Nasty Boys starting beef with Team 3D, to Bubba the Love Sponge helping the Nasty Boys, to Jeff Hardy and Shannon Moore meeting with Hogan, to Daniels (one of TNA's supposed top stars that just headlined a PPV) getting about three and a half seconds of camera time, to Beer Money being knocked out in the back, to Abyss tapping out to Samoa Joe. My head is STILL spinning.
Finally, the gem of the show occurred which (in my opinion) completely overshadowed every other part of the show... Angle faced AJ Styles for the title. Ric Flair even came out at one point to look on. This match was an absolute, pure, storytelling, unbelievably classic matchup which had AJ's hand raised in the end.
The show ended with Hogan being interrupted by a staff member after verbally praising AJ and Kurt, only to find out that Mick Foley had entered the Impact Zone. As Foley was going to attack Eric Bischoff, Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, and Kevin Nash protected Bischoff and beat the shit out of Foley, only to be interrupted by Hogan's cold stare as the show came to a close.
(And that was the SHORT version.)
Promos: 3.0/5.0
Storyline Direction: 3.0/5.0
In-Ring Wrestling Matches: 4.5/5.0
Overall Entertainment Value: 3.5/5.0
Holy crap, is my head spinning...
My overall anticipation of an nWo interaction was somewhat satisfied during the 9pm hour of the show. The promos were extremely scripted and not delivered well by Waltman or Hall. Hogan even had trouble with some of his lines. But once Bischoff came out, it was obvious that his promo skills were leaps and bounds above the others. All other promo segments that occurred during the shows just seemed very messy to me.
The storyline direction is a little confusing for me. I feel that there were too many open-ended questions going into this broadcast and there's just as many now that it's over. Who would have thought that three hours wouldn't be enough time to squeeze in all of the stuff that TNA was cramming into out brains last night? While some storylines went in perfect stride and direction (Morgan/Hernandez vs. British Invasion, Tara vs. ODB, Jarrett/Foley vs. Hogan/Bischoff), most of the storylines left me scratching my head (Bobby Lashley incident, Sting's appearence, Nasty Boys/Team 3D, Beer Money knocked out, AJ/Angle match happening with no direction as to where the world title will go from here).
As usual, TNA dominated in their in-ring matchups. Even though the Steel Asylum match was God awful (and even though the KO Championship match was mediocre at best), the Knockout Tag Title match further proved that the KO division is superior to the Divas division by a landslide. The tag match of Morgan/Hernandez vs. Raven/Stevie was mediocre but AJ Styles and Kurt Angle put on a clinic.
Overall, I was satisfied with the returns and surprise appearances by so many superstars, but most of it didn't make a whole lot of sense. The promos were robotic, the storylines began to point nowhere (besides the TNA power struggle involving Hogan, of course), but the matches were awesome and the changes and new direction displayed by TNA left me with a good taste in my mouth for things to come. However, I wasn't overly excited about any part of the broadcast besides Ric Flair's appearance, the initial entrance of Hulk Hogan, the interaction of the (former) nWo faction, and the AJ Atyles vs. Kurt Angle match.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, in the end, two wrestling promotions did battle and I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth for BOTH of them.
The WWE made a pitiful attempt at balancing their PG rating with good promos, ho-hum matches, grown-male butt-kissing, another match involving a meaningless dwarf and epic opening and closing segments. Their product continues to go in a straight, steady, clear, concise, simplified, and juvenile direction, completely lacking any kind of excitement and entertainment that would appeal to anyone either entering or living through adulthood.
TNA dove into a completely opposite direction. Their storylines were fast paced, overwhelming (due to so much stuff going on at once), lacked direction, and were too complicated and complex. And TNA depicted themes that were basically not suitable for childen to watch, yet they were slightly intriguing and entertaining to adults.
Both shows were (as JR would say) "all sizzle and no steak." They had all of the elements of a great show, but neither show found the right formula. One promotion allowed their television show to drag on, didn't view their competitor as a threat, didnt even break a sweat trying to top them, and didn't implement enough action and excitement. The other promotion crammed WAY too much stuff into a three hour broadcast, resulting in a confusing and directionless product.
I'm EXTREMELY disappointed in everything that I watched last night. Stated plainly, it seemed to me as if one show put on their normal, mediocre broadcast while the other tried WAYYYY to hard to play catch-up. For all of us, choosing the better show has become nothing more than choosing the lesser of two evils. As the title of this thread states, last night can be described as nothing more than "Crap vs. Crappier".
This brings me to my main point. Most of you will probably sit there and say "TNA put on a better show than the WWE." But really think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you rather say to yourself "TNA put on a great show"? Don't be blinded by the fact that one show exceeded the other in total entertainment value. Fact of the matter is that both shows fell short of their goals of putting on truly entertaining television shows.
Now I ask all of you... While most of you can sit there and praise TNA for their broadcast last night, do you honestly think it was a "great" show? Or just a pretty good show with a lot of special guest appearances? Do you think they can keep this up, or have they blown their full load a bit too early? Did WWE do their part last night? Does anyone else feel that last night was completely lackluster from BOTH wrestling promotions?
Last night we were supposed to witness an epic battle between two wrestling organizations. David versus Goliath. TNA vs. WWE. We were supposed to be priviledged enough to see compelling television from both programs, epic and shocking returns, incredible matches, and the genesis of a new battle between wrestling promotions that would finally pacify the long-time viewers who have been craving competition for the WWE. Instead, we were franticaly flipping the channels back and forth between two shows that were filled with confusion, boredom, garbage, blown spots, and crapfests.
Let's sit back for a minute and really scan over each show... was one REALLY superior over the other? As a matter of fact, from an overall perspective, was either show (dare I say) any good at all?? To do this, I'm going to break these shows down by listing categories that I personally feel need to be a part of a wrestling program in order to hit a home run with the audience, and I'll score the shows based on those categories. These categories will be:
Promos
Storyline Direction
In-Ring Wrestling Matches
Overall Entertainment Value
WWE Raw
The show began with a nice promo package of Bret Hart's history and demise in the WWE. Then the WWE came out swinging and began the actual show with the Bret Hart/HBK confrontation segment. The segment and Bret's exposure on Raw was exactly what it should have been... it provided closure for the long-time wrestling fans in regards to the Montreal incident instead of forcing Bret to act like a typical, weekly, wannabe-authority-figure-type host that nobody gives two shits about.
The meat of the show provided average-at-best matches and was a typical Raw program with mediocre substance. The only other focal points of the program worth mentioning were: Maryse's further strengthening as a believable women's title contender, more teasing of Legacy's breakup, DX retains their tag titles which finally eliminates Jericho from Raw, MVP is now the #1 contender for the US Title, and we know that Stu Hart will finally get his long-overdue welcome into this year's WWE HOF.
Promos: 4.5/5.0
Storyline Direction: 4.5/5.0
In-Ring Wrestling Matches: 2.5/5.0
Overall Entertainment Value: 3.0/5.0
Overall, BORRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG... Bret's return, the Montreal Screwjob Closure promo with HBK, and the betrayal by Vince to set up a match at Wrestlemania were the only things that made this show worth watching for me (well, besides Maryse). But then again, does that surprise anyone? Besides that, the WWE did their usual good job of keeping the show flowing in the right direction and building up future matches and storylines. However, their matches were pure dogshit and overall, I wasn't very entertained by what I watched. Two groundbreaking segments aren't enough to make an entire two-hour show worth watching for me. Especially when their top draw is missing from the show.
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TNA Impact
After a few teases during the commercials of the previous show on Spike TV, Impact began just like any other show, really. I was texting my friends right before the show began, predicting that TNA would bring in Hogan at around 8:56pm-8:57pm to dominate the 9pm overrun against the start of WWE's Raw broadcast.
Impact began with a steel asylum match that was one of the biggest clusterfuck blunders that I had ever seen on wrestling television. Besides a few quick, high-impact spots in the ring, I was bored to tears with this match. Then, the unthinkable happened... TNA's version of a steel cage match ended in a *gulp* no contest?!? Then, Homicide decides to be Superman by attempting to climb out of the cage and miserably and embarrassingly fails, wasting 5 minutes of television time and showing even MORE flaws in what was to be one of TNA's top drawing and innovative match-types?? Sure, Jeff Hardy came out afterwards and beat him up, but where does this go from here? Is Jeff officially on the TNA roster now? Was it a one-time appearance? Will Homicide's psychotic, new persona come to terms with the fact that he can't climb out of a cage? Was the crowd ever going to stop chanting "This is bullshit"? All in all, this was an utterly embarrassing and awful way to start the show.
Next, we have the TNA KO championship match and a title change, due to ODB's predicted heel turn as she wins by showing the world Tara's gorgeous, bare ass (which the camera had to cut away from) by gripping the tights for a rollup victory. Meh...
Ric Flair arrives and enters AJ Styles' locker room. Hmmm... surprising and interesting.
Bobby Lashley and his wife come to the ring and cut a promo, turning Lashley heel, explaining that he is asking to be released from his TNA contact. Did anyone else give two flying squirts of piss about this? I sure didn't.
The Beautiful People decided to act like total ****es and tease the audience with a strip poker game. Is it just me, or do you also feel that the direction for their characters isn't much of a stretch? Anyway... Later on, Val Venis showed up to join the game. Whoopie. (Um, where's Angelina Love?)
Then, the long-awaited arrival of Hulk Hogan began just as I predicted... at 8:57pm. Just prior, we saw some segments with Hall and Pac trying to get into the building and now they managed to get their hands on front-row seats in the entranceway for Hogan's arrival. Hogan enters the ring, milks the crowd for all it's worth (thereby further stroking his ego), and begins to cut a promo about TNA's new direction under his guidance. Then, everyone gets what they were waiting for as, one by one, members of the former nWo faction make their way out to the ring. Then, a clusterfuck of a promo began. Scott Hall moved his cheeks out of the way to say "Hey Yo" a few times, Waltman miserably attempted to toss in a few lines of the promo and looked like a crack addict that just fell out of the tanning booth, Nash proceeded to speak in circles (as he normally does) and Hogan and Bischoff tried to put the big kabash on any rumors of an nWo reincarnation. All of this while Sting viewed from the rafters. Basically, TNA pacified the WCW marks with the same shit that we all watched over a decade ago.
Then we have New KO Tag Champions as a result of a great, solid match by TNA's top in-ring KO workers, an appearance by the Nasty Boys (WTF?!?), a last minute, thrown-together tag team of Morgan and Hernandez earned a TNA tag title shot at Genesis (that they'll probably lose), Orlando Jordan makes a cameo (another WTF?!?), and the Pope defeated Desmond Wolfe in a ho-hum match. *YAWN* Then, Bischoff announces that AJ Styles is to take on Kurt Angle in the main event at Impact. Finally... something makes sense.
Hogan and Jarrett exchange promo points and Hogan throws some more of his ego around. Gee... there's a shocker.
Now, welcome to the craziest segments of the show. We're shown everything from Kristal getting into it with Bischoff, to the Nasty Boys starting beef with Team 3D, to Bubba the Love Sponge helping the Nasty Boys, to Jeff Hardy and Shannon Moore meeting with Hogan, to Daniels (one of TNA's supposed top stars that just headlined a PPV) getting about three and a half seconds of camera time, to Beer Money being knocked out in the back, to Abyss tapping out to Samoa Joe. My head is STILL spinning.
Finally, the gem of the show occurred which (in my opinion) completely overshadowed every other part of the show... Angle faced AJ Styles for the title. Ric Flair even came out at one point to look on. This match was an absolute, pure, storytelling, unbelievably classic matchup which had AJ's hand raised in the end.
The show ended with Hogan being interrupted by a staff member after verbally praising AJ and Kurt, only to find out that Mick Foley had entered the Impact Zone. As Foley was going to attack Eric Bischoff, Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, and Kevin Nash protected Bischoff and beat the shit out of Foley, only to be interrupted by Hogan's cold stare as the show came to a close.
(And that was the SHORT version.)
Promos: 3.0/5.0
Storyline Direction: 3.0/5.0
In-Ring Wrestling Matches: 4.5/5.0
Overall Entertainment Value: 3.5/5.0
Holy crap, is my head spinning...
My overall anticipation of an nWo interaction was somewhat satisfied during the 9pm hour of the show. The promos were extremely scripted and not delivered well by Waltman or Hall. Hogan even had trouble with some of his lines. But once Bischoff came out, it was obvious that his promo skills were leaps and bounds above the others. All other promo segments that occurred during the shows just seemed very messy to me.
The storyline direction is a little confusing for me. I feel that there were too many open-ended questions going into this broadcast and there's just as many now that it's over. Who would have thought that three hours wouldn't be enough time to squeeze in all of the stuff that TNA was cramming into out brains last night? While some storylines went in perfect stride and direction (Morgan/Hernandez vs. British Invasion, Tara vs. ODB, Jarrett/Foley vs. Hogan/Bischoff), most of the storylines left me scratching my head (Bobby Lashley incident, Sting's appearence, Nasty Boys/Team 3D, Beer Money knocked out, AJ/Angle match happening with no direction as to where the world title will go from here).
As usual, TNA dominated in their in-ring matchups. Even though the Steel Asylum match was God awful (and even though the KO Championship match was mediocre at best), the Knockout Tag Title match further proved that the KO division is superior to the Divas division by a landslide. The tag match of Morgan/Hernandez vs. Raven/Stevie was mediocre but AJ Styles and Kurt Angle put on a clinic.
Overall, I was satisfied with the returns and surprise appearances by so many superstars, but most of it didn't make a whole lot of sense. The promos were robotic, the storylines began to point nowhere (besides the TNA power struggle involving Hogan, of course), but the matches were awesome and the changes and new direction displayed by TNA left me with a good taste in my mouth for things to come. However, I wasn't overly excited about any part of the broadcast besides Ric Flair's appearance, the initial entrance of Hulk Hogan, the interaction of the (former) nWo faction, and the AJ Atyles vs. Kurt Angle match.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, in the end, two wrestling promotions did battle and I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth for BOTH of them.
The WWE made a pitiful attempt at balancing their PG rating with good promos, ho-hum matches, grown-male butt-kissing, another match involving a meaningless dwarf and epic opening and closing segments. Their product continues to go in a straight, steady, clear, concise, simplified, and juvenile direction, completely lacking any kind of excitement and entertainment that would appeal to anyone either entering or living through adulthood.
TNA dove into a completely opposite direction. Their storylines were fast paced, overwhelming (due to so much stuff going on at once), lacked direction, and were too complicated and complex. And TNA depicted themes that were basically not suitable for childen to watch, yet they were slightly intriguing and entertaining to adults.
Both shows were (as JR would say) "all sizzle and no steak." They had all of the elements of a great show, but neither show found the right formula. One promotion allowed their television show to drag on, didn't view their competitor as a threat, didnt even break a sweat trying to top them, and didn't implement enough action and excitement. The other promotion crammed WAY too much stuff into a three hour broadcast, resulting in a confusing and directionless product.
I'm EXTREMELY disappointed in everything that I watched last night. Stated plainly, it seemed to me as if one show put on their normal, mediocre broadcast while the other tried WAYYYY to hard to play catch-up. For all of us, choosing the better show has become nothing more than choosing the lesser of two evils. As the title of this thread states, last night can be described as nothing more than "Crap vs. Crappier".
This brings me to my main point. Most of you will probably sit there and say "TNA put on a better show than the WWE." But really think about that for a minute. Wouldn't you rather say to yourself "TNA put on a great show"? Don't be blinded by the fact that one show exceeded the other in total entertainment value. Fact of the matter is that both shows fell short of their goals of putting on truly entertaining television shows.
Now I ask all of you... While most of you can sit there and praise TNA for their broadcast last night, do you honestly think it was a "great" show? Or just a pretty good show with a lot of special guest appearances? Do you think they can keep this up, or have they blown their full load a bit too early? Did WWE do their part last night? Does anyone else feel that last night was completely lackluster from BOTH wrestling promotions?
original_ecw_fan
Dark Match Jobber
anyone hear the who needs bret chant and the this is wrestling chat during the styles/angle match? i thought impact had some really good matces and some cool surprises but HONESTLY people raw was just the same old show just starring bret hart. yes the cage match on impact sucked but like another poster said treat this like a pilot. i sure as smart as eb is he's gonna watch the show and gage the fans reactions. he'll look at the boring and bs chants during the cage match and maybe say hey lets not do that again. he'll maybe hear the this is wrestling and who needs bret chants during the stlyes angle match and say ok they liked that. he'll look at the knockouts and say hey these women can wrestle. i think the next few weeks will show where they are gonna go. i will say vince has put wwe in a spot perfect for tna to take over. LOOK AT IT THIS WAY. right before nitro ared wwe had doink and dink just abunch of kiddie crap. now they r doing pg wrestling and having a midget aka dink 2 running around. LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS
Last night I sat down on my couch at 9 PM ready to watch RAW.
"Raw is going to have Bret The Hitman Hart!" I thought to myself. "Surely, TNA can't put on a show that will have anywhere near as much drama."
RAW came on, and I watched what I thought to be a pretty significant opening segment with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels hugging it out. Then I saw a crappy wrestling match, a decent wrestling match, a very good wrestling match, another shit show, and a very good wrestling match to finish off the wrestling portion of the show.
The show wrapped up with Vince McMahon and Bret Hart having a fairly... well just plain BORING exchange, and then Vince kicking Bret in the gut, which was sort of like using shock panels to revive the WWE audience.
"This was a good RAW," I thought to myself. "I will certainly tune into RAW next week instead of TNA to see what is next for Bret and Vince." Then I played videogames for a couple hours and went to bed.
This morning I woke up, made a few phone calls, sent a few emails, and sat down to see what people were saying about TNA vs. WWE. I figured a good way to start was seeing what TNA put on against the WWE, so I clicked on the TNA results link.
"Surely," I thought to myself, "TNA couldn't have put on a show as good as the WWE. Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff or no, the WWE is just plain better than TNA."
Then, as I scrolled through the pages describing what happened at TNA, my mouth dropped. I saw names that I had put in the back of my mind, names of wrestlers who I thought were done. I saw Ric Flair, X-Pac, Razor Ramon, Shannon Moore, Val Venis, and the Nasty Boys.
Of course, none of these names compared to the major ones that reappeared. Jeff Hardy is back, but on TNA! I find it unbelievable that after the WWE gives Jeff a couple title reigns and some major feuds that he goes to the enemy, but I'm definitely down with that. Sting! Turns out that 50 year old bastard didn't retire (surprising, right?) and he's back for more! And though I'm not a fan of his in ring work, nobody can deny that there may be some serious implications coming with Double J's return.
The big names WWE had on RAW last night? Bret Hart, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, HHH... maybe Chris Jericho? Does he count? John Cena wasn't there. The Undertaker wasn't there. Besides Bret, HHH, and HBK, and depending who you ask Chris Jericho, there weren't any wrestling greats in the building.
If you were going to a party, would you rather go to the one with the popular kids even though there's only a couple 30's, a bottle of vodka, and only a few people... or would you want to go to the kegger with some old friends, get smashed, and remember old times?
So now I think back. I said that I was going to be watching RAW on the 11th, but do I still feel that way?
Part of me knows that those guys I mentioned before, X-Pac, Scott Hart, Ric Flair, they can't wrestle anymore. They are the wrestling equivalent of Rocky 8. They were awesome at one time, but now they are just a name. A name that will gross a ridiculous amount of money and attention, but a name that will not provide the show we used to see.
The other part of me doesn't care. Yeah, Rocky 8 sucks in comparison to the original, but part of me really just wants to see Rocky punch some cocky young asshole in the face. They might not be putting on the best matches, but that's why TNA has Daniels, Styles, Samoa Joe, Angle, Wolfe, Hernandez, the list goes on and on and on of wrestlers who have the ability to put on a great show. TNA's problem, in my eyes, was that they didn't have the names and personalities to support great storylines. Guess who does? Ric Flair, Scott Hart, and Hulk Hogan.
What will I do next Monday? Your guess is as good as mine. I'll probably start on RAW, but I might just find myself switching back and forth between TNA and RAW, and if TNA really catches my interest... well, I might just stay a while. To hell with WWE if they think they can put on this weak ass stuff and keep my attention while TNA works their asses off. If that continues to be the case, TNA has my rating.
"Raw is going to have Bret The Hitman Hart!" I thought to myself. "Surely, TNA can't put on a show that will have anywhere near as much drama."
RAW came on, and I watched what I thought to be a pretty significant opening segment with Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels hugging it out. Then I saw a crappy wrestling match, a decent wrestling match, a very good wrestling match, another shit show, and a very good wrestling match to finish off the wrestling portion of the show.
The show wrapped up with Vince McMahon and Bret Hart having a fairly... well just plain BORING exchange, and then Vince kicking Bret in the gut, which was sort of like using shock panels to revive the WWE audience.
"This was a good RAW," I thought to myself. "I will certainly tune into RAW next week instead of TNA to see what is next for Bret and Vince." Then I played videogames for a couple hours and went to bed.
This morning I woke up, made a few phone calls, sent a few emails, and sat down to see what people were saying about TNA vs. WWE. I figured a good way to start was seeing what TNA put on against the WWE, so I clicked on the TNA results link.
"Surely," I thought to myself, "TNA couldn't have put on a show as good as the WWE. Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff or no, the WWE is just plain better than TNA."
Then, as I scrolled through the pages describing what happened at TNA, my mouth dropped. I saw names that I had put in the back of my mind, names of wrestlers who I thought were done. I saw Ric Flair, X-Pac, Razor Ramon, Shannon Moore, Val Venis, and the Nasty Boys.
Of course, none of these names compared to the major ones that reappeared. Jeff Hardy is back, but on TNA! I find it unbelievable that after the WWE gives Jeff a couple title reigns and some major feuds that he goes to the enemy, but I'm definitely down with that. Sting! Turns out that 50 year old bastard didn't retire (surprising, right?) and he's back for more! And though I'm not a fan of his in ring work, nobody can deny that there may be some serious implications coming with Double J's return.
The big names WWE had on RAW last night? Bret Hart, Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, HHH... maybe Chris Jericho? Does he count? John Cena wasn't there. The Undertaker wasn't there. Besides Bret, HHH, and HBK, and depending who you ask Chris Jericho, there weren't any wrestling greats in the building.
If you were going to a party, would you rather go to the one with the popular kids even though there's only a couple 30's, a bottle of vodka, and only a few people... or would you want to go to the kegger with some old friends, get smashed, and remember old times?
So now I think back. I said that I was going to be watching RAW on the 11th, but do I still feel that way?
Part of me knows that those guys I mentioned before, X-Pac, Scott Hart, Ric Flair, they can't wrestle anymore. They are the wrestling equivalent of Rocky 8. They were awesome at one time, but now they are just a name. A name that will gross a ridiculous amount of money and attention, but a name that will not provide the show we used to see.
The other part of me doesn't care. Yeah, Rocky 8 sucks in comparison to the original, but part of me really just wants to see Rocky punch some cocky young asshole in the face. They might not be putting on the best matches, but that's why TNA has Daniels, Styles, Samoa Joe, Angle, Wolfe, Hernandez, the list goes on and on and on of wrestlers who have the ability to put on a great show. TNA's problem, in my eyes, was that they didn't have the names and personalities to support great storylines. Guess who does? Ric Flair, Scott Hart, and Hulk Hogan.
What will I do next Monday? Your guess is as good as mine. I'll probably start on RAW, but I might just find myself switching back and forth between TNA and RAW, and if TNA really catches my interest... well, I might just stay a while. To hell with WWE if they think they can put on this weak ass stuff and keep my attention while TNA works their asses off. If that continues to be the case, TNA has my rating.
Mikeski215
New Member
I must say what a night to be a wrestling Fan! i felt like a 10 year old kid fliping channels back & forward it was great seeing Shawn & Bret in the same ring it was awesome seeing the NWO Members back in the same ring even tho Hall look so Drunk.I must say holy shit did Tna beat Raw last night maybe not in ratings but Tna had the better show hands down Matches promos and surprises Vince is fucking Pissed off he wasent expecting all that 2 happen now did he now Vince has to reinvent his company again to beat TNA cuz if Tna keeps this up then well see some major Changes in the Ratings.
original_ecw_fan
Dark Match Jobber
i'd love to see another monday night war it's good for the biz. you'd think mark madden would agree. i bet he'll find faault in everything tna did. i can hear him now " that last match wasnt long enough"
Monkey Popper
Dark Match Jobber
Why do people like TNA? I mean yeah they are showing blood and have some good high flyers. I do feel WWE should bring that back. But TNA is like a retirement league. Vince has given all the people on the TNA roster a chance and they blew it. Having Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, and all the other oldies come back was a huge slap in the face towards Vince. C'mon though, doesn't TNA remind everyone of a wrestling organization called...um...WCW. That is exactly what it is! Vince will eventually buy it out and take the great ones of TNA. Not the old guys who just can't lay it down....Kinda like Brett Farve.
WWE was smart bringing Brett Hart back somehow. I wonder if they are going to continue to use him for anything. WWE will always stay on top because Vince knows how to please the fans!
Oh and Jeff Hardy is a freakin sellout. Have a good day.
WWE was smart bringing Brett Hart back somehow. I wonder if they are going to continue to use him for anything. WWE will always stay on top because Vince knows how to please the fans!
Oh and Jeff Hardy is a freakin sellout. Have a good day.
JuviJuiceIsLoose
Getting Noticed By Management
How is Jeff Hardy a sellout when he's wrestled for TNA before???
It's business. It's just another opportunity.
It's funny how you call TNA a "retirement home" when the main storyline on Raw last night involved a 64 year old Steroid abuser, a 52 year old former stroke victim, and a 44 year old.
Those guys aren't exactly spring chickens.
How are those guys slapping Vince in the face when they've worked other places before.
What, do you think they came out of the womb, and Vince raised them in his house to become a wrestler???
Cool and awesome,just too sweet you could say.
The Monday night wars are back, Monday night World War 2. The wwe has been the only name in wrestling for to long. I know TNA has been on around awhile, and i have been a fan sense Christen started with them. but TNA was to small to really bother the wwe. They still might not. But they could.
Now i know people love to complain about TNA(the 1. complaint i see is it looks cheep) and a lot of there complaints are legit.
But TNA has come so far sense 2006. every thing about it is better except christen is gone and suicide. WWE will have to take note soon.
TNA is not PG, I hate the PG ear in WWE.
What has Monday night Raw done sense 2006? went PG, started the gust host killed the mid card, and once DX is tired of tagging , they killed the tag team division.Expect Beth Phoenix and Mcool the Davis are hot, but boring and not good wrestles.
I say TNA has a much better tag team division, the Knockouts are better than Davis. Raw has a better mid card than TNA, but use them terrible.
I think the WWE has a Better Main Event but just barley. its hard to say with Monday nights A.J. styles vs Angle fresh in mind.
So to the Chang. TNA need us to watch. the cheep look will go away it will get better. Then the WWE will get better to respond.TNA got hogan Monday, so WWE got Bret Hart. Who Won? the fans
i say to all the people who hate PG wrestling watch TNA,to all the people who hate the gust host watch TNA. To all the people who are tired of Cena endless push, DX selling stuff, and horeswoggel Watch TNA, wwe will get the message. When WWE and WCW were fighting for no. 1 it was the best. that is what i want and what wrestling needs. you have a choice.
I am just glad i have a DVR this time around
The Monday night wars are back, Monday night World War 2. The wwe has been the only name in wrestling for to long. I know TNA has been on around awhile, and i have been a fan sense Christen started with them. but TNA was to small to really bother the wwe. They still might not. But they could.
Now i know people love to complain about TNA(the 1. complaint i see is it looks cheep) and a lot of there complaints are legit.
But TNA has come so far sense 2006. every thing about it is better except christen is gone and suicide. WWE will have to take note soon.
TNA is not PG, I hate the PG ear in WWE.
What has Monday night Raw done sense 2006? went PG, started the gust host killed the mid card, and once DX is tired of tagging , they killed the tag team division.Expect Beth Phoenix and Mcool the Davis are hot, but boring and not good wrestles.
I say TNA has a much better tag team division, the Knockouts are better than Davis. Raw has a better mid card than TNA, but use them terrible.
I think the WWE has a Better Main Event but just barley. its hard to say with Monday nights A.J. styles vs Angle fresh in mind.
So to the Chang. TNA need us to watch. the cheep look will go away it will get better. Then the WWE will get better to respond.TNA got hogan Monday, so WWE got Bret Hart. Who Won? the fans
i say to all the people who hate PG wrestling watch TNA,to all the people who hate the gust host watch TNA. To all the people who are tired of Cena endless push, DX selling stuff, and horeswoggel Watch TNA, wwe will get the message. When WWE and WCW were fighting for no. 1 it was the best. that is what i want and what wrestling needs. you have a choice.
I am just glad i have a DVR this time around
Monkey Popper
Dark Match Jobber
He is a sellout because it was explained to all the WWE fans that he left so he could leave wrestling for awhile and do things he wanted to do.
Yeah He was at TNA before but he wasn't has big as he was in WWE. Vince lifted Jeff from the trash and gave him fame, fans, and a WWE Heavyweight Title.
WWE/Vince made Hulk Hogan, gave Ric Flair a proper goodbye, gave Bishoff a chance but he just couldnt swallow his pride.
TNA is an organization where wrestlers who were great at one time, just wont stop because they want to be in the spot light instead of letting the young stars take the light. How many times is it a shocker that Sting is up in the rafters. How many times can Angle and Styles have the same match. I just watched one of their matches ONDemand and I want to say it was almost the same moves that were done on the this past Mondays show. No it wasnt the same match but they did just about everything exactly the same. BORING!
JuviJuiceIsLoose
Getting Noticed By Management
Right, and I'd MUCH rather see Randy Orton put somebody in a headlock for 15 minutes!!!
It doesn't matter if those guys are 50, 60, or 170. People want to see them and they're draws.
That's why on Raw last night, you were hearing TNA and Hogan chants.
What the hell are you talking about "swallowing pride"??? If you mean becoming Vince's employee, and having to answer to him. Bischoff can do a lot better. He's a smart guy who's been extremely successful.
Yeah, he gave Ric Flair a goodbye, but it was obvious they were forcing him out. Hell, they wouldn't even let him show up to be inducted in the NWA Hall of Fame!!!
Don't give me that crap about TNA recycling the WWE's garbage.
It's not like Vince ever brought back the NWO... Oh wait, he did!!!
original_ecw_fan
Dark Match Jobber
monkey seems like just another wwe make. i really don't get you guys. everyhing good vince had he stole from steve austin to the whole attitude area if not for ecw wrestlemania 25 would have been headlined by the undertaker vs baston booger. 2nd vince even stole the idea of the heel boss from eb. remember eb was a heel manager for the nwo shortly after it started when piper exposed him on an episode of nitro then after the screwjob vince did the same. in the words of the hardcore genius paul haymen vince has never had an original idea
JJYanks121
The Mouth of the South Shore
Good luck watching TNA next Monday.....it won't be on! Tonight they will tape next Thursday's episode as this Thursday will be a repeat of Monday. If you want an alternative to WWE next Monday, you'll be watching UFC on Spike if you are into that.
As for your assessment, you might want to watch whatever portion of the broadcast they show you on Thursday. It will be cleaned up, hopefully have less commercials, and fix the audio problems, but it will still be a pretty subpar show. I guess you and I are different, because when you refer to it being cool to see Rocky 8, I say go back and watch a video or DVD or Rocky 1 if you are nostalgic for the old times. Seeing something great from your past in current form can often be depressing if they can't do the same things. That is, unless a quality story is involved. That's the difference between Bret Hart's return and all the random returns on impact. Bret had things to solve, things to say, I still have no idea what exactly all those old bums were doing in Orlando. When that nostalgia burns out, it becomes a low rent, low budget show with no direction and unless that changes, they're in for trouble. However, they will now be able to put on their show with no competition on Thursdays. Let's see if their ratings rise with no direct competition.
- Status
