Jan 4th- Monday Night Raw vs TNA iMPACT

[JGlass]

Good luck watching TNA next Monday.....it won't be on! Tonight they will tape next Thursday's episode as this Thursday will be a repeat of Monday. If you want an alternative to WWE next Monday, you'll be watching UFC on Spike if you are into that.

Haha thank you for the heads up, I would have been very confused when I turned to Spike and saw UFC instead of TNA.

I guess you and I are different, because when you refer to it being cool to see Rocky 8, I say go back and watch a video or DVD or Rocky 1 if you are nostalgic for the old times. Seeing something great from your past in current form can often be depressing if they can't do the same things. That is, unless a quality story is involved.

The point I was trying to make was that I'm not sure which I'd prefer. In all honesty, the last Rocky I saw was Rocky 4, and that was by mistake (one of those things where you start watching because you think it's Rocky 3, but it turns out it's not but you're so involved that you keep watching), so if I was to continue my tradition, I wouldn't switch over to TNA. However, every time a new Rocky comes out, there's a little part of me that is interested in seeing it.

 

[King Douche]

Haha thank you for the heads up, I would have been very confused when I turned to Spike and saw UFC instead of TNA.



The point I was trying to make was that I'm not sure which I'd prefer. In all honesty, the last Rocky I saw was Rocky 4, and that was by mistake (one of those things where you start watching because you think it's Rocky 3, but it turns out it's not but you're so involved that you keep watching), so if I was to continue my tradition, I wouldn't switch over to TNA. However, every time a new Rocky comes out, there's a little part of me that is interested in seeing it.

Rocky 8? They did not come out with a Rocky 7 yet. But I heard they will though. I do not know why man the Rocky movies out played now and suck. Like I'm gonna take a man in his 60s fighting younger, faster, stronger athletes. Seriously Sly Stallione just leave it alone with the Rocky flicks, enough is enough. They should of ended with Rocky 4. Had a great send off and epic one aswell. Technically they should of ended with Rocky 2 which had a greater ending and epic one.

 

[BladeRunner]

That was a good breakdown, but I didn't doubt it would turn out like that, WWE has so many dormant fans, imagine if they had put on a show like TNA put on last night. Just think about it man, if TNA had Bret Hart last night, and WWE had everything TNA had, don't you think WWE would've done even better than they did last night? If all TNA had was Bret Hart, would it be an epic event? Probably their biggest aquisition ever, and possibly worth a 1.5, but it wouldn't have been game changing for TNA since it was only one guy. Just role reverse a bit, if WWE had put on the WWE equivalent of what TNA did last night, I would be saying great things about Raw.

Absolutely, if WWE had put on something similar to all that crazy goodness that TNA put on last night, the WWE marks would be bouncing off the walls they'd be so amped up and excited about what's going to happen next.

Instead, because it's not WWE, many are just full of venom and hatred the likes of which has rarely been seen on this message board.

Kinda sad really.

 

[Toroc102]

Since we are mostly concentrating on the Ratings though.....mmmmmmm...... 5.6 rating for Raw, and a 1.5 for TNA.....mmmmmm.........me thinks WWE Pwned/Crushed/Smashed TNA last night.

The big thing to keep in mind though is that Bret is signed till Mania, and if Raw can consistently keep getting Ratings like it did last night because of Bret, then I don't see how TNA has a chance on monday nights.

Moral of the story: Don't ever, ever, ever Mess with Vinnie Mac. If you light a fire under him, he will respond, and he will crush you.

I think the difference is that TNA got fans that had never seen the show watching, while WWE got old fans to come back for the return of Bret Hart, but if its the same fans that don't like todays show then Bret Hart won't be attracting 5.6's forever. I mean, he's not going to be wrestling for one, there's the possibilty of a match at WM but what until then? Bret was great, but he'd have to be a promo guy in this capacity and of course that was never his strong suit. What can they do to stretch this out until WM? He can't really be attacked either right? Beaten down? What can WWE do to maintain interest in Bret Hart besides just having him and McMahon have a feud where neither of them are going to be wrestling much for the duration of the 3 months it could last?

Basically I see a lot more potential for TNA's audience continuing to grow, and WWE's audience returning back to normal or maybe a little higher. TNA can do a lot more with the old guys it brought back than Vince can do with Bret, the man was a great if not the best wrestler of all time, its why he's a Hall of Famer, but he can't wrestle anymore.

 

[Jsaturn14]

I think the difference is that TNA got fans that had never seen the show watching, while WWE got old fans to come back for the return of Bret Hart, but if its the same fans that don't like todays show then Bret Hart won't be attracting 5.6's forever. I mean, he's not going to be wrestling for one, there's the possibilty of a match at WM but what until then? Bret was great, but he'd have to be a promo guy in this capacity and of course that was never his strong suit. What can they do to stretch this out until WM? He can't really be attacked either right? Beaten down? What can WWE do to maintain interest in Bret Hart besides just having him and McMahon have a feud where neither of them are going to be wrestling much for the duration of the 3 months it could last?

This right here is why WWE will continue to OWN TNA in the Ratings. Your right there are a lot of questions on what WWE will be doing with Bret for the next 4 months, but those questions don't hinder WWE in the least, it helps them. For the first time, in what feels like forever, WWE isn't predictable. I won't be turning on my TV on Monday's and be able to call everything that will happen in the show. I won't be bored out of my mind, I will be on the edge of my seat, looking forward to seeing what Creative comes up with for Bret. Will the ratings come back down after this initial appearance? Maybe, but I think it is far more likely that ratings will continue to hold up to a high level. Bret Hart and the questions with him combined with Wrestlemania Time (when WWE usually produces great stuff) means an epic few months are in store for us. I can not wait to see what happens.

 

[CaptainCrazy74]

I think I was more sick today reading about last night's new Wrestling Show War than I was the day Vince bought WCW. I can't fathom why no one has seen it. TNA is dying and WWE needs a new view at the talent they have. Hogan did exactly what I thought he would, all of his buddies got folded in the story and are taking the spotlight. WWE was as predictable as it has been for twenty years. Nothing new sans the Bret/Vince angle. I like the IDEA of Sheamus and Bourne for the title but, knew it would be a squash match in favor of Sheamus. This just crushed Bourne's crediblity for a title run. Way to go writers!!!! Crush the future and all hope for a real change in wrestling programming. I wish for just a minute that someone would think of the more intelligent and experienced wrestling fan. Russo/Bishoff and Vince McMahon get a little smarter for us please. I won't watch until it changes.

 

[SickJames]

As much as I like the idea of 9-11 head to head, 8-11 with 8-10 & 9-11 is good because we get 3 hours of wrestling like a PPV with 2 shows cause a wrestling PPV atleast WWE's are 3 hours (i'm not sure about TNA cause I dont watch theirs)

but I'm excited for MNWII

I like the idea of TNA only 8-9, Raw only 10-11
and the hard head to head hour of 9-10

If you think about it it puts more emphasis on 9-10 being a must watch period of Raw & TNA which means more ppl will watch all of both shows imo because you have head to head at the end of TNA (ppl will wanna see the end) with the beginning of Raw but the 2nd hour does best but ppl will wanna switch between both shows just like the MNWI and i think it's a good plan to get ratings on both show
relaxing and watching TNA to start everything off, you are excited at this point for the climax which is the head to head hour and then you can have it end with a bang watching Raw's second hour

and Raw's endings should be very good being that we are nearly on The Road to WrestleMania (we will be come Royal Rumble)

so the 9-10pm hour of head to head with 1 hour all to one company works imo, it's new and unique for this war and they can go fully head to head later in a few years maybe then we'll see a 2nd Attitude Era from WWE instead of thid Attitude Adjustment

and this is also a tease, giving us a little at a time, we'll be waiting for it and be just as excited more when they announce full head to head but this will due for now

this whole thing is so perfect, will work and along with Shane leaving and other suspicious things...

it still makes me think, not 100% but the thought is there...

Vince may own TNA secretly, but being smart wouldnt have it come out as staging a legit war would be better for ratings and the fans




-
and that's all I gotta say
I gotta go because I itch
and dont forget..
I'M SICKJAMES BITCH!!

 

[mitchharris1947]

I have been following the world of professional wrestling since long before the WWWF ever existed. The likes of Pat O'connor, Lou Thez, The original Shiek, the original Nature Boy - Buddy Rogers. I sometimes like WWE, and other times I cannot stand it. But as far as the head to head competition with TNA on Monday the 4th of January, I have to admit that in my opinion WWE was the hands down winner by far.

Bret Hart was used properly, as a guest host.

Hunk Hogan on TNA , ,well that is getting stale, Then man is in his 50s and should just walk away, but his ego will not allow that. Watching the show, it struck me as being very familiar . . . as if it was almost a repeat of the WCW being run by Vince Russo. Guys like AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Amazing Red, Motor City Machine Guns, those men should be the headliners, not the likes of Hogan, Nash, Sting, and now Bischoff.
Scott Hall looked like he walked in after a three day drunk. Kevin Nash looked like he was just going throught the motions to get a paycheck. The Nasty Boys . . give me a break . .Who is going to be there next, Brutus 'The Barber" Beefcake? Or maybe The Macho Man - Randy Savage. or Sid Vicious. As long as TNA insists on bringing men that should have hung them up years ago, they will not progress, but rather begin to falter. It happened to WCW There is an expression . . "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"

I now there are those that will say that Hogan going to WCW helped them win the ratings war against WWE, but that was only temporary. How many face lifts did the nWo go throught. When it originaled, it was great, but then it grew tiring. Oh, and lets not forget the rerun of the part where Sting is in the rafters watching everything going on below him . . . How long did he do that in WCW . . .

TNA will look like a winner for a while, but only till the people get tired of seeing the same old preformers time in and time out. The best match, by far on TNA was the Kurt Angle - AJ Styles match, that was the only thing that made it even worth while.

The best thing about TNA right now, besides the few like Styles, Angle, Amazing Red and a few others that are fantastic to watch, are the Women . .or should I say the Knockouts. By far, they are superior to the Divas on Raw and Smackdown . .. as it appears they all can actually wrestle. I am glad to see that Tara, FKA Victoria, is actually being allowed to preform up to her abilities instead of being used as a stooge in the ring as she was the last year or so in WWE. No other can match the power of Awesome Kong. But a show cannot be built of women alone, it has been tried in the past and has failed.

If Hogan wants to be on the air, he should have a role such as the late Jack Tunney, and the late Gorilla Monsoon . . as president, a great title but no real power. If he really meant what he said about making TNA great, then he needs to keep off the air so much and let the talent run with the ball.

 

[Motor City Jeezy]

It's been tallied up and... although TNA had groundbreaking ratings, WWE still spanked them. I'm not particularly surprised at the ratings, though.

I was slightly disappointed in yesterday's Impact, but even more disappointed in yesterday's RAW. I might sound like a masochist, but damnit I was expecting Bret to have the Hart Dynasty BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF HBK. Instead, he came to shake hands and put everything to bed. I almost wanted to kiss Vince when he kicked Bret in the stomach. THANK YOU VINCE FOR BEING AN ASSHOLE. The Hart Dynasty is going to WHOOP YOUR WRINKLY ASS NOW. Or at least they better, or this will have been the biggest waste of a storyline ever.

I still sound angry. I apologize. Don't take me seriously. Also, I'm still LMFAO at the chant during Impact - "Who needs Bret?"

The nWo reunion rubbed me entirely the wrong way. I believe that it could've been executed better without Scott Hall and Sean Waltman. Don't get me wrong, I was like OMG nWo REUNION, but at the same time... Waltman and Hall have obviously done down the tubes since their days at the top. I think it would've been better with simply Kevin Nash and Hulk Hogan.

Another thing that bothered me about Impact was Hogan basically kicking Double J to the curb. I mean, what? Even though it's all kayfabe, that promo pissed me the hell off. Hogan showed absolutely zero respect for what Jarrett went through to get the business going. How is any of that believable? If Jarrett seriously has to "lace up the boots and prove himself", I'm going to be pissed off.

It's late and I'm picky, obviously. TNA had a better show overall. RAW's matches were mostly garbage. TNA had solid spots such as Angle vs Styles, the Knockouts Tag Team match, and even though it was short I liked Wolfe and Dinero going at it.

 

[Shocky]

What is it about January 4th and Monday Night Wars? January 4th 1999, this was the last great battle of the original Monday Night Wars. Mick Foley wins his first WWF title against the Rock, while WCW had the Infamous Finger Poke of Doom. While this was the night WCW claim would shift the war back to its favor, the WWE took the ball from that night, and never looked back, ultimately putting WCW out of business 14 months later. Fast Forward 11 years, and are we looking at the first shot of a new war, or simply a child screaming for attention from the kiddie table?

I'm going to keep this post as short and sweet as I can, and try to prevent myself from ranting. First of all, it was nice to see two shows on Monday Night again. This was easily a nostalgia night at its best. A quick synopsis and opinions of the night, beginnign with Impact.

Cluster Fuck: Officially the word of the night to describe TNA and it's big hooray show. I could officially change the song 12 days of christmas and put to it TNA jokey references, such as 8 XDivisioners stuck in a cage, 5 Old Guys thinking its 1996 (NWO), 2 Fat Slobs (Nasty Boys), and One Returning Spot Monkey. Fill in the blanks with "Big Names" such as Val Venis, Orlando Jordan, or anyone else that was on the Hulkamania tour. Seriously, by the end of the Night, where the Fuck was Kennedy.

I come across as probably the biggest Hulk Hogan appologist on the board, and I said there was nothing to worry about. All of this fucking goes out the window when Bubba the Love Sponge showed up to be a backstage correspondent. Really, fucking Bubba the Love Sponge. Quite possibly the worst move since Mark Madden, and that includes Mike Adamle.

I'm pretty much convinced that TNA has become a semi-handicapped disgarded child of what was left of WCW/ECW. This WECW abomination with smarky fans... you know what, scratch that, the term smark does not apply to the idiots being interviewed. Some envoked "real wrestling" and used the term Ultimate Warrior in the same sentence. That's all I needed to hear to realize the direction of where this night was going. By the time the Nasty Boys showed up, I was officially done with the new TNA.

TNA Impact was terrible. Aside from the actual TNA guys putting up good matches, capped off by a great match from Angle and AJ Styles, TNA shot its wad and exposed itself. It was back to the failed tactics of Monday Nitro. Stall and run commercials to hit the quarter hour ratings, try to show that the backstage is planend, yet it being planned the entire time. seriously, the showing of the wizard behind the curtain act died 10 years ago, no one cares that someone "unscripted" a scripted portion of a show. TNA, and clearly seen on these forums, lowered itself to the lowest common denominator. If you aren't smarky, or are not familiar with inside references, then most of the show flew over your head.

For a night that Hulk Hogan swore the business wasn't about him, it sure felt a whole lot about him. I could have sworn that if I took a shot for everytime someone said the name Hogan, I would have died by 845 that evening. Make no mistake about it, this was all about Hogan, and has always been about Hogan, and the night was a complete and total disaster.

As for Raw, I will keep it short, and simple, unlike my TNA observation. If you didn't watch Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels in the ring, and you claim to be a fan of this industry, you did yourself a disservice. You should check your fandom at the door, because clearly you missed out on the least likely event to happen in our lifetime. The Screwjob situation and the real life story of Bret Hart was far more compelling then seeing 5 50 year old men try to recreate 1996 all over again.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm glad that iMPACT was able to pull a good rating and I do hope that they can keep the attention they generated. TNA's biggest problem is that they've never been able to sustain momentum for any length of time.

I've heard some are disappointed in one show or the other, or in both. Both shows delivered based on what it is you wanted to see.

For TNA, if you were excited to see a lot of much older stars pop up every few minutes, then you loved iMPACT that night. For me personally, seeing all the original members of the nWo, the Nasty Boys and Ric Flair wasn't a big thrill. Once you get past all of that, I thought the vast majority of iMPACT was a pretty standard episode and that's just not enough to keep me interested. The highlights of the show for me were Jeff Hardy showing up, partially because him actually joining the roster was a surprise and partially because he's a young, entertaining and relevant star today. It was a real coup for TNA. The other highlight for me was the Styles/Angle match. A spectacular match between these two as always. Aside from those two things, nothing happened on iMPACT to interest me in the least.

I've said it in other posts, all one has to do is watch Raw last Monday night and you'll see that Vince doesn't consider TNA a threat. Raw put on a good, solid show in which Bret Hart was the centerpiece. Raw was about putting on a show that had some pretty damn good matches overall and welcoming a legend back into the business.

I've read where some people have asked if Vince is trying to compete with TNA. The answer is a simple no at this point. When Vince McMahon decides to fight, take someone on or compete then you don't have to wonder whether or not if that's what he's doing. Anybody that knows about Vince McMahon's history can tell you this. I'm not trying to sound like a Vince mark or anything, but the fact of the matter is that the man isn't afraid of a fight. He fought and won the Monday Night Wars. He fought against rival promoters and promotions and they're all gone. Hell, Vince now owns just about all of them right down to the copyrights of their promotion's names. He's fought against the court system and the government.

What Raw showed is that if Vince puts even the slightest, real genuine effort into it, then he can more than hold his own with TNA. Hell, the Hart/McMahon segment drew a 4.4 rating. That means that well over 6 million people watched the last 10-15 minutes of Raw just to see what'd happen with those two. The last segment of Raw drew nearly triple the audience TNA averaged for the entire night.

 

[Zeedeevel]

I say WWE won and it is simply because they didnt try to do over the top things and going out of the norm. They simply put on a good show.

You flip over to impact and the first match is an over gimmicked steel cage match that ends in a dq and Jeff Hardy coming out. This was really the best moment of the night but doesnt really bring much to the table. Not only did they parade out guys who were last relevant in the late 90's but they did something else WCW did very wrong. They got desperate to put on a good show so they put a ppv main event that had been advertised already on free tv. It may have gotten attention that night but they didnt do anything to build on it.

WWE ended with Bret in the ring after Vince kicked him, which still left that feud unresolved. They ended the feud with Bret and Shawn and reintroduced the Vince/Bret feud to a new audience. This draws in interest for the next week to see if Bret is back or not.

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

TNA getting its best rating ever is a huge acheivement for the company especially as they went head to head with WWE Raw.

I watched both but you know all though I loved seeing Bret Hart back, I actually thought TNA Impact was better. I just loved seeing the nWo in the ring together really brought back the old feeling especially when Sting was shown in the rafters. I just wonder where they are going cause it just felt like WCW '97 and thats why I enjoyed it but thats surely not going to help TNA in the future, Look what happend to WCW in the end.