IMPACT Wrestling LD for 09.15.11

[klunderbunker]

I have no problem with Hogan's entrance. It was perfectly in line with his character. However, I do agree the match should have been booked differently, it should have been an ass-kicking to the utmost by Sting. However, the booking of the actual match has nothing to do with Hogan's facade coming to the ring, the facade which masked his intimidation of Sting, an intimidation which obviously still exists to this day. Hence the run-in.

This right here is about all I need. After this the rest is window dressing.

The entrance....eh I guess I can live with that. It's the part after that that I have more of a problem with, as apparently you do as well.

 

[Slyfox696]

This right here is about all I need. After this the rest is window dressing.

The entrance....eh I guess I can live with that. It's the part after that that I have more of a problem with, as apparently you do as well.

Yes. While the way the match was booked makes sense, it's not what should have been done. Apparently it was a change after Sting showed up drugged out.

But yes, despite the fact the match which did occur made reasonable sense, the match should have been Sting whipping Hogan from pillar to post, a metaphor for WCW finally getting that elusive triumph over the nWo, and doing it emphatically.

 

[JJYanks121]

Understand that, but unless TNA planted most of the fans in the audience, and not just the hot girls in the front row, then most of the crowd was legitimately into it.

And I didn't see the Roode vs. Kazarian match, but just because one match is exciting, or more exciting, it doesn't mean the second match cannot be exciting as well.

I agree with the second part, but I was merely pointing out that you said that the crowd being into it was something to point at as being good for the Flair/Sting match. I was countering by saying that the Impact Zone crowd is tricky if not absolute garbage as far as a wrestling crowd goes. Let's even say that both matches were exciting, based on crowd reaction tonight, you wouldn't know that Roode/Kazarian was exciting because the crowd was dead for it. That's my point. It would be ideal for the crowd to react to what most people find exciting, but they didn't in that case because the Impact Zone sucks donkey ass.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yes. While the way the match was booked makes sense, it's not what should have been done. Apparently it was a change after Sting showed up drugged out.

But yes, despite the fact the match which did occur made reasonable sense, the match should have been Sting whipping Hogan from pillar to post, a metaphor for WCW finally getting that elusive triumph over the nWo, and doing it emphatically.

I think I might have a chance to crush you on the reasonable sense part, at least the ending.

 

[Rising Savior]

So what you're saying is your opinion is more correct than the opinion of 700 others. Is that really what you're telling me?

Perhaps I was wrong when I said you weren't a bad poster.

So what your saying is if a bad match takes place yet the crowd enjoys it that makes it automatically a good match? Not to mention the match took place in the fucking impact zone. I would of loved to seen that match live.

 

[klunderbunker]

So what your saying is if a bad match takes place yet the crowd enjoys it that makes it automatically a good match? Not to mention the match took place in the fucking impact zone. I would of love to seen that match live.

Dude, take it from a veteran here: stop before you get mauled. I'm a state away and I can feel Sly licking his lips.

 

[Slyfox696]

I agree with the second part, but I was merely pointing out that you said that the crowd being into it was something to point at as being good for the Flair/Sting match. I was countering by saying that the Impact Zone crowd is tricky if not absolute garbage as far as a wrestling crowd goes. Let's even say that both matches were exciting, based on crowd reaction tonight, you wouldn't know that Roode/Kazarian was exciting because the crowd was dead for it. That's my point. It would be ideal for the crowd to react to what most people find exciting, but they didn't in that case because the Impact Zone sucks donkey ass.

While there's obviously no way to know for sure, I daresay that match would have garnered a good reaction in most wrestling arenas.

I think I might have a chance to crush you on the reasonable sense part, at least the ending.

The ending was devised because of Sting's condition, if you believe Bischoff's book. It was also a way for WCW to get Hart involved in something, because they didn't have the first clue what to do with him up until that part.

But I'm not talking about the end, I'm talking about having the most dominant wrestler in history taking early control of the match and maintaining it through most of the match against a guy who hadn't wrestled in over a year. That's reasonable, even if it isn't what they should have done.

So what your saying is if a bad match takes place yet the crowd enjoys it that makes it automatically a good match?

No, I never said that. Please take the time to actually comprehend what I did say. I'm being serious, go back and read through the thread, and see if you can come up with where your mistakes have come from.

 

[klunderbunker]

The ending was devised because of Sting's condition, if you believe Bischoff's book. It was also a way for WCW to get Hart involved in something, because they didn't have the first clue what to do with him up until that part.

But I'm not talking about the end, I'm talking about having the most dominant wrestler in history taking early control of the match and maintaining it through most of the match against a guy who hadn't wrestled in over a year. That's reasonable, even if it isn't what they should have done.

I'm going to throw that one completely out as I would believe Bischoff if he told me I had too much time on my hands.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

See, this is why I'm not sure the run-in was supposed to break up the pin. Since no one interfered in the match, why would Flair get DQ'd? It seemed as if the run-in was more to distract the referee from the fact Flair was going to use brass knuckles.

As far as having a greater effect, unless you expect Sting to retire tonight, they had the greatest effect they could possibly have.

I've always had a problem with certain foreign objects in wrestling and the lack of effect they have on an opponent. Title belts seem to have too big of an impact while things like sledgehammers and brass knuckles don't.

I can not suspend disbelief all of the time. It's a curse.

P.S. - Seriously, Fuck Gunner

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm going to throw that one completely out as I would believe Bischoff if he told me I had too much time on my hands.

Yeah, but Sting has admitted he was pretty fucked up back then. I think it's probably not that far fetched.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah, but Sting has admitted he was pretty fucked up back then. I think it's probably not that far fetched.

He was clearly coherent enough to have a watchable match. I don't see how the conclusion they came to was the best option they could come up with.

 

[Slyfox696]

He was clearly coherent enough to have a watchable match.

The match didn't require much of him.

I don't see how the conclusion they came to was the best option they could come up with.

If Nick Patrick hadn't screwed up the count, the match wouldn't get nearly as criticized as it does. That's poor execution on the referee's part, not the booking, Hogan or Sting.

 

[klunderbunker]

The match didn't require much of him.

Meaning he could have no sold a bunch of offense, hit Hogan a few times, dropped him on his head and put him in the Deathlock for a 4 minute massacre.

If Nick Patrick hadn't screwed up the count, the match wouldn't get nearly as criticized as it does. That's poor execution on the referee's part, not the booking, Hogan or Sting.

And if Sting hadn't laid on the mat for a minute after, making it look like the fast count didn't matter and that he was dead.

And if Bret hadn't been out there before the bell rang which begs the question of why he was out there so fast.

And if they explained how Bret can be a referee and restart a match with an explanation other than "well I guess he can do that".

And if they hadn't killed the crowd by having Hogan dominate it.

And if Sting had no sold more than a vertical suplex.

And if they hadn't had one of the worst major shows all night before that (not Hogan and Sting's fault).

And if Sting had actually done something other than stand there once he got the advantage (dropkicks Hogan out of the ring and does NOTHING to follow up).

And if they hadn't booked a screwjob finish in the main event of the biggest show in the history of the company and had just told Hogan to grow up and do a clean job for once in his life.

 

[Rising Savior]

No, I never said that. Please take the time to actually comprehend what I did say. I'm being serious, go back and read through the thread, and see if you can come up with where your mistakes have come from.

That's exactly what the fuck you said. You said since 700 people in the impact zone found that match exciting that I was wrong for not finding it exciting or entertaining. You apparently aren't as smart as you think you are.

 

[Slyfox696]

Meaning he could have no sold a bunch of offense, hit Hogan a few times, dropped him on his head and put him in the Deathlock for a 4 minute massacre.

4 minutes? Not a chance. No way you build a storyline for a full year and have a four minute blowoff.

And if Sting hadn't laid on the mat for a minute after, making it look like the fast count didn't matter and that he was dead.

And if Bret hadn't been out there before the bell rang which begs the question of why he was out there so fast.

And if they explained how Bret can be a referee and restart a match with an explanation other than "well I guess he can do that".

And if they hadn't killed the crowd by having Hogan dominate it.

And if Sting had no sold more than a vertical suplex.

And if they hadn't had one of the worst major shows all night before that (not Hogan and Sting's fault).

And if Sting had actually done something other than stand there once he got the advantage (dropkicks Hogan out of the ring and does NOTHING to follow up).

And if they hadn't booked a screwjob finish in the main event of the biggest show in the history of the company and had just told Hogan to grow up and do a clean job for once in his life.

No, you're mentioning reasons the match wasn't good. That's not what I said.

What I said is that if Patrick hadn't screwed up the count, the match wouldn't get criticized nearly as much. I mean, when people talk about the match, and you ask them to detail one reason they thought the match was lacking, the number one thing mentioned is the screwed up screw-job that wasn't.

Just like Hogan vs. Andre from WM 3, the nitpicky things would have been overshadowed by the significance of the event. And while Hogan vs. Andre is a decent match (and only is now criticized by "smarks" who don't know what they're talking about), if Hogan couldn't have slammed Andre at the end of the match, then it probably would be regarded in a similar vein as Hogan vs. Sting.

 

[klunderbunker]

4 minutes? Not a chance. No way you build a storyline for a full year and have a four minute blowoff.


No, you're mentioning reasons the match wasn't good. That's not what I said.

What I said is that if Patrick hadn't screwed up the count, the match wouldn't get criticized nearly as much. I mean, when people talk about the match, and you ask them to detail one reason they thought the match was lacking, the number one thing mentioned is the screwed up screw-job that wasn't.

Just like Hogan vs. Andre from WM 3, the nitpicky things would have been overshadowed by the significance of the event. And while Hogan vs. Andre is a decent match (and only is now criticized by "smarks" who don't know what they're talking about), if Hogan couldn't have slammed Andre at the end of the match, then it probably would be regarded in a similar vein as Hogan vs. Sting.

I'm not sure on that. The slam is huge but the ending was clean and the right guy won. In Hogan vs. Sting the right guy won....eventually but it was anything but clean.

 

[Slyfox696]

That's exactly what the fuck you said. You said since 700 people in the impact zone found that match exciting that I was wrong for not finding it exciting or entertaining. You apparently aren't as smart as you think you are.

Yeah, so apparently you are a moron.

So what your saying is if a bad match takes place yet the crowd enjoys it that makes it automatically a good match?

Do you notice the difference? Or do I need to point it out? I'll tell you what, since I have no confidence in your mental abilities, I'll point it out.

Notice the difference in the following letters "e-x-c-i-t-i-n-g" and "g-o-o-d"? Now, do you notice the difference? Not once have I said that if a crowd finds a match exciting it's good. Seriously, go back and read the thread. I know that will probably take a while for you, given your limited ability when it comes to reading comprehension, but take a shot at it, at the very least.

No where did I say exciting=good, despite you trying to attribute me to that comment. So, when I said:

No, I never said that.

I was right...like usual. Which makes you wrong.

You should take KB's advice and just run now. Your stupidity is starting to frustrate me, and while I'm working to be more civil in my debating, nothing pisses me off like stupidity, and your stupidity is reaching record levels for this thread.

 

[The Crock]

Translation of Sly's post: Leave before I ban you, stupid motherfucker.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm not sure on that. The slam is huge but the ending was clean and the right guy won. In Hogan vs. Sting the right guy won....eventually but it was anything but clean.

And the SuperBrawl tag team match between Steiners and Luger/Sting wasn't clean, but it was still one of the best tag matches I've ever seen.


Clean is overrated. Story of the match is far more important. The story of the Hogan vs. Andre match, aside from the passing of the torch, was whether or not Hogan could actually slam Andre. He failed earlier in the match, Andre worked the back for most of the match, Hogan got his second wind and finally slammed him. But what if Hogan got that second wind, went to slam him, but failed miserably? The story of the match would basically be for naught, and the whole Hulk-Up routine would have suffered. The air would have gone out of the Silverdome, and the pinfall would have been anti-climatic.

The story of the Sting vs. Hogan finish was the screw-job count, which Bret Hart (having been recently screwed himself) wasn't going to allow. Yes, it would have been nice to know why Bret had that power, but if Patrick had done one of his patented fast counts, no one would have questioned what Hart was doing, the fans would have known instantly why he was doing it, and it would have all made perfect sense. The story of the finish would have made perfect sense (even if you don't agree with the idea of it in the first place). But when Patrick screwed up the count, it just threw the entire match into oblivion.

 

[Slyfox696]

Translation of Sly's post: Leave before I ban you, stupid motherfucker.

No, I don't ban for stupidity. A more accurate translation would be: Leave before I rip you a new asshole and expose your stupidity to any and all who view the thread.

 

[klunderbunker]

And the SuperBrawl tag team match between Steiners and Luger/Sting wasn't clean, but it was still one of the best tag matches I've ever seen.


Clean is overrated. Story of the match is far more important. The story of the Hogan vs. Andre match, aside from the passing of the torch, was whether or not Hogan could actually slam Andre. He failed earlier in the match, Andre worked the back for most of the match, Hogan got his second wind and finally slammed him. But what if Hogan got that second wind, went to slam him, but failed miserably? The story of the match would basically be for naught, and the whole Hulk-Up routine would have suffered. The air would have gone out of the Silverdome, and the pinfall would have been anti-climatic.

Which is why it's a good match, among other things.

The story of the Sting vs. Hogan finish was the screw-job count, which Bret Hart (having been recently screwed himself) wasn't going to allow. Yes, it would have been nice to know why Bret had that power, but if Patrick had done one of his patented fast counts, no one would have questioned what Hart was doing, the fans would have known instantly why he was doing it, and it would have all made perfect sense. The story of the finish would have made perfect sense (even if you don't agree with the idea of it in the first place). But when Patrick screwed up the count, it just threw the entire match into oblivion.

I'd go into a long rant about why the Montreal aspect was even stupider than the fast count but Kenan and Kel is on so I'm in a good mood.

I'd also argue with the idea that the match wasn't already destroyed by the time we got to the count, but again that's another story.

This is one of those situations where I think the whole thing can be summed up by whatever they were going for bombed and it bombed badly. I'd also think it's for more reasons than you're summarizing it to.

 

[The Crock]

No, I don't ban for stupidity. A more accurate translation would be: Leave before I rip you a new asshole and expose your stupidity to any and all who view the thread.

This one really rolls off the tongue a lot nicer.

 

[Slyfox696]

Which is why it's a good match, among other things.



I'd go into a long rant about why the Montreal aspect was even stupider than the fast count but Kenan and Kel is on so I'm in a good mood.

I'd also argue with the idea that the match wasn't already destroyed by the time we got to the count, but again that's another story.

This is one of those situations where I think the whole thing can be summed up by whatever they were going for bombed and it bombed badly. I'd also think it's for more reasons than you're summarizing it to.

I agree the match wasn't good, for many reasons. All I'm saying is that it falls in the infamous category because of the botched finish.

 

[klunderbunker]

I agree the match wasn't good, for many reasons. All I'm saying is that it falls in the infamous category because of the botched finish.

I think there's a bit more to it than that. Quite a bit more actually.

 

[Slyfox696]

I think there's a bit more to it than that. Quite a bit more actually.

Not me. I think the ending puts it in infamous category.