Well I see the kind of person you are and arguing with you really does nothing because you're idea of destroying someone who you concider to be a "dumbass" is by picking out certain things I said out of context and twisting them to you're fitting. Honestly if you're not capable of arguing with someone without using such childish remarks then you should go back to your parents and get some home trainning and ettiquette in your system. I have no problem with GLAAD trying to help homosexuals who are being harassed and raise awareness of the damage that certain individuals can cause to a community. I just find it downright ridiculous that just because CM Punk wants to be someone in life and chased his dream that now everytime he says something that strikes a chord theres a camera rolling around him. But hey, if I followed you around, pissed you off (and seeing how you have such a colorful vocabulary) turned the camera on every time you reacted to my actions you would look like a deuchbag right? This is the kind of stuff that goes on in this society that we literally make up things to get upset about. I doubt anyone who leads a homosexual lifestyle was insulted by Punk saying homo. Its a generational thing, a lot of homosexuals understand that the phrase "homo" is just an insult towards a specific person, and not against an entire community just life black people understand that the word ******, or should I say *****, is a term used to call someone a friend or call attention to a specific person, not to put down that specific race. And as someone else pointed out, do you think this was news in Australia? Hell no, because they understand that Punk was provoked, acted on it, made a poor choice of words, but its not like he adressed the entire homosexual community when he did so, he was just angry at two fans. When WWE does something wrong in another country they get called on their BS. Since you like bringing up Hitler so much, do you remember the time JBL did the "Hail Hitler" hand sign in Germany and almost got banned from there? Like I said, when they do something wrong in that country, then that country calls them on their BS, it has nothing to do with us. Hell we wouldnt even know about it unless someone was recording it. I'm not going to get into a long discussion about this, because all I'm going to get is you doing your thing with my words and I have no intention of replying to separate sentences of mine that were pulled out of context. PC is PC, its always going to be free of anything that can possibly hurt anyone, regardless of how it was used. If you just look at it logically, theres no reason to get upset because a guy got pissed and called someone a "homo". If someone who has the right to be upset about this, someone from the homosexual community, actually stands up and says that Punk's situation disturbed them, then I would be more than happy to admitt I'm wrong, but I see no such thing happening. Punk's words arent going to destroy the foundation of our society, or cause mass suicides to happen, its just going to cause a PR nightmare for a guy who just wanted to go to the ring and do his job. We're so self centered, this doesnt affect all of us, it affects Punk and the two men at ringside, but somehow we've twisted it to be something that was meant for an entire community. I'm not going to change my mind, and I know you arent either because if you're already falling for the PC BS thats only real intention is to censor us then you're too stubborn to see that one word should not cause an uproar. We have to be strong, as long as theres a Bible that says homosexuality is wrong and people who follow that Bible then theres always going to be homophobia, and theres nothing GLAAD can do to stop it. GLAAD can, however, help people distinguish between things that they need to let go and things that they need to stand against. Attacking a person on the street because of their orientation is something you should stand against, but if someone provokes another person, and they decide to retaliate with something that isnt so politically correct, then those two people asked for it and theres no use in defending them. What is those two threw something at Punk while he made his way to the ring, or kept calling Punk gay, or said something about his family (maybe his mom is desceased or something), he has every right to get in their face and say whatever is going to hurt them the most. If they pulled no punches then why should he? We need to stop acting like certain groups, just because they're a minority, deserve special treatment. Thats what causes homophobia in the first place. If you keep making them a special case in society then they will never be able to fit in.
CM Punk is Allegedly "Homophobic"
- Thread starter TheNewStyle
- Start date
closet_fan
Mid-Card Championship Winner
To call Punk a "homophobe" is ridiculous. If I recall, he had made several Tweets defending gay marriage countless times.
It used to be that calling someone a homo was nowhere near related to homosexuality.
But the PC world we live in has decided to take every "slang" term Bobby and Johnny invented back in grade school and make them mean something else.
Good luck trying to playfully call someone a "******" and not be called a hater of people who are literally mentally ******ed.
Pretty soon we won't be able to call someone a "Jerk Off" because it will be demeaning to chronic *********ers.
It used to be that calling someone a homo was nowhere near related to homosexuality.
But the PC world we live in has decided to take every "slang" term Bobby and Johnny invented back in grade school and make them mean something else.
Good luck trying to playfully call someone a "******" and not be called a hater of people who are literally mentally ******ed.
Pretty soon we won't be able to call someone a "Jerk Off" because it will be demeaning to chronic *********ers.
I take what you write and respond to them. I can't help it if you aren't smart enough to say things exactly the way you mean them.
Oh, I'm perfectly capable, I do it quite a bit. But then again, those people aren't morons and don't say stupid things.
Unless the homophobic comments comes from someone who entertains you. Yeah, I got that.
Haven't we already covered this?
Maybe I would. Wouldn't make it any less wrong.
Yep, we sure have.
How can you expect people to believe you have no problem with GLAAD helping homosexuals, and then say they are making up things to get upset about?
Because no one in GLAAD is a homosexual?
I....I really don't know how to respond to this other than to say you are clearly living in a different world than the rest of us.
Which makes it okay? What the fuck is your point?
No, if you look at it stupidly and insensitively, there's no reason to be upset. If you look at it logically, there's plenty of reason to be upset, for reasons I've already mentioned.
You cannot be this stupid.
....like GLAAD, for example?
Great, I'm waiting for your apology and admittance of being wrong.
I love how treating a group of people like human beings is "PC BS". And yet, you get pissed because I call you Hitler and a dumbass.
You're an idiot. There's no other way to say it.
No, its intention is to get people to treat everyone with respect. You keep wanting me to treat you with respect, while at the same time saying it's okay to not treat homosexuals with respect.
That makes YOU the hypocrite, not me.
My jaw literally dropped. What the fuck does the Bible have to do with a group teaching people the error of their ways? The Bible is a bunch of bullshit, written by human beings to subjugate other human beings.
The more we can teach people that they should not get their morals from the Bible, the better off we are.
I find it incredible that YOU are the one who knows what GLAAD should stand for and against, and what they should let go.
Which they do. What the fuck are you talking about?
It's like you get stupider each time you post.
If Punk's comments incite another human being to practice hate or violence against a homosexual then his comments are completely disgusting. GLAAD is working to prevent celebrities from making comments stupid people like you will defend and practice.
BULLSHIT! Complete and utter bullshit, and just shows what a small-minded cockroach of a human being you are.
Allow me to repeat something I hope you heard many times in your youth. "Two wrongs don't make a right". Ever heard that?
Two reasons:
1) Two wrongs don't make a right
2) He is a celebrity/role model. People will believe his words/actions simply because he is on TV. He has a responsibility to make sure what he does isn't going to incite hatred against a group of people.
What's amazing is that Punk himself has admitted what a terrible comment it was, and you're STILL defending it.
Maybe you're not a moron, maybe you're a child. At least that would be excusable for the stupid stuff you're saying.
Groups like GLAAD exist BECAUSE of homophobia. If it weren't hatred against homosexuals in the first place, GLAAD would not be necessary. GLAAD is working to get people to understand homosexuals are people, just like everyone else.
People like you are what's wrong with this world. As long as you are excusing the actions of those who practice hate and intolerance, we can never have a world where everyone enjoys the same rights and liberties as others. I hope one day you'll grow up and understand how awful your comments make you look as a human being.
FightOwensFight
Formerly Global Conquest
First off, congrats SlyFox on your marriage.
Now to the topic at hand. Yes, Punk has every right to say whatever he wants, but as Sly has pointed out repeatedly, that same right also grants organizations like GLAAD the right to condemn the person saying it. I would also like to echo Sly's sentiments on the people that are "fed up" with all the PC in the world and claiming words like "homo" or "***" or "******" (thanks closet_fan for bringing that into the equation) are prefectly fine.
We aren't now "making the words mean something else" when compated to what "Bobby or Johnny" meant in grade school. It is the fact that as adults, we should now know better. When you are trying to hurt someone and use terms like homo, ***, or ****** you are saying, as Sly has pointed out repeatedly, that they are of an inferior class. Whether you mean it or not, that is how it works. The fact that you associate Sly referring to you as "fuckwits" with you calling someone a "homo" is very telling.
As far as gay people making gay jokes (or blacks making black jokes). Guess what? That is how it has always been. When someone like Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, or Chris Rock makes fun of black people and uses the "N" word people laugh. If you have a comedian like Daniel Tosh say the same thing it is suddenly very uncomfortable.
Bottom line; when you use a term commonly associated with another group of people in a negative fashion, you are being disrespetcful and hurtful to that group of people. It really isn't that tough to understand. Or at least it shouldn't be.
Now to the topic at hand. Yes, Punk has every right to say whatever he wants, but as Sly has pointed out repeatedly, that same right also grants organizations like GLAAD the right to condemn the person saying it. I would also like to echo Sly's sentiments on the people that are "fed up" with all the PC in the world and claiming words like "homo" or "***" or "******" (thanks closet_fan for bringing that into the equation) are prefectly fine.
We aren't now "making the words mean something else" when compated to what "Bobby or Johnny" meant in grade school. It is the fact that as adults, we should now know better. When you are trying to hurt someone and use terms like homo, ***, or ****** you are saying, as Sly has pointed out repeatedly, that they are of an inferior class. Whether you mean it or not, that is how it works. The fact that you associate Sly referring to you as "fuckwits" with you calling someone a "homo" is very telling.
As far as gay people making gay jokes (or blacks making black jokes). Guess what? That is how it has always been. When someone like Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, or Chris Rock makes fun of black people and uses the "N" word people laugh. If you have a comedian like Daniel Tosh say the same thing it is suddenly very uncomfortable.
Bottom line; when you use a term commonly associated with another group of people in a negative fashion, you are being disrespetcful and hurtful to that group of people. It really isn't that tough to understand. Or at least it shouldn't be.
I take what you write and respond to them. I can't help it if you aren't smart enough to say things exactly the way you mean them.
Oh, I'm perfectly capable, I do it quite a bit. But then again, those people aren't morons and don't say stupid things.
Unless the homophobic comments comes from someone who entertains you. Yeah, I got that.
Haven't we already covered this?
Yep, we sure have.
How can you expect people to believe you have no problem with GLAAD helping homosexuals, and then say they are making up things to get upset about?
Because no one in GLAAD is a homosexual?
I....I really don't know how to respond to this other than to say you are clearly living in a different world than the rest of us.
Which makes it okay? What the fuck is your point?
No, if you look at it stupidly and insensitively, there's no reason to be upset. If you look at it logically, there's plenty of reason to be upset, for reasons I've already mentioned.
You cannot be this stupid.
....like GLAAD, for example?
Great, I'm waiting for your apology and admittance of being wrong.
I love how treating a group of people like human beings is "PC BS". And yet, you get pissed because I call you Hitler and a dumbass.
You're an idiot. There's no other way to say it.
No, its intention is to get people to treat everyone with respect. You keep wanting me to treat you with respect, while at the same time saying it's okay to not treat homosexuals with respect.
That makes YOU the hypocrite, not me.
My jaw literally dropped. What the fuck does the Bible have to do with a group teaching people the error of their ways? The Bible is a bunch of bullshit, written by human beings to subjugate other human beings.
The more we can teach people that they should not get their morals from the Bible, the better off we are.
I find it incredible that YOU are the one who knows what GLAAD should stand for and against, and what they should let go.
Which they do. What the fuck are you talking about?
It's like you get stupider each time you post.
If Punk's comments incite another human being to practice hate or violence against a homosexual then his comments are completely disgusting. GLAAD is working to prevent celebrities from making comments stupid people like you will defend and practice.
BULLSHIT! Complete and utter bullshit, and just shows what a small-minded cockroach of a human being you are.
Allow me to repeat something I hope you heard many times in your youth. "Two wrongs don't make a right". Ever heard that?
Two reasons:
1) Two wrongs don't make a right
2) He is a celebrity/role model. People will believe his words/actions simply because he is on TV. He has a responsibility to make sure what he does isn't going to incite hatred against a group of people.
What's amazing is that Punk himself has admitted what a terrible comment it was, and you're STILL defending it.
Maybe you're not a moron, maybe you're a child. At least that would be excusable for the stupid stuff you're saying.
Groups like GLAAD exist BECAUSE of homophobia. If it weren't hatred against homosexuals in the first place, GLAAD would not be necessary. GLAAD is working to get people to understand homosexuals are people, just like everyone else.
People like you are what's wrong with this world. As long as you are excusing the actions of those who practice hate and intolerance, we can never have a world where everyone enjoys the same rights and liberties as others. I hope one day you'll grow up and understand how awful your comments make you look as a human being.
I really hope this is the last time I have to reply, cuz I'm getting tired of your bullshit. You're way of making a logical argument is by calling people names, names so childish I stopped hearing them after middle school, and attaking people's personal beliefs (The Bible). You really cant have a logical conversation without doing any of these two, which proves that I'm arguing with a child or a deeply troubled person, since they are the only two groups who cant refrain from typing the word dumbass when they're upset. Its like you turned into Red Foreman from That 70's Show. Hey, I found a nickname for you!
I'm not excusing hate or intolerance by defending a guy who got pissed and let a word slipped then later appologized for it. I'm not saying what he did was right, but our generation always need to take the unecessary detour through unecessary outside involvement to resolve any situation properly. Punk did not spew hatred, he was pissed and made a bad choice of words. It was a bad choice of words but do we really need to get an organization involved every time someone says something hurtful? He also called him a "vagina", do we need to get the national association of vaginas involved? You think this PC world is actually out to protect you, which its not. Its built on the paranoia that every single word is going to trouble someone. If you remove hurtful phrases from our vocabulary without proper protest then you eliminate the art of comedy, because everything comedians say hurt someone. You kill Dora The Explorer because fox's shouldnt be portrayed as sly criminals. You kill Big Mommas house because you enforce the steryotype that black women are loud and fat. You can look at it that way, or you can grow up and realize that these things are all in good fun, and if you dont like them you dont have to be part of them. We live a judgemental society, a society that if it doesnt like a specific group theres nothing that you can do to change it. Things arent going to change, and by trying to change what comes out of people's mouths with the use of organizations then you're going to incite more hatred than acceptance. I believe in the First Amendment to its full power, that it was put in place for this particular reason, to protect what comes out of our mouths. These days you cant say anything without insulting someone. That my friend is a backwards society. We are the most open country in the world. In the middle east people are killed for being homosexual. We provide liberties for some but take away from others. Just like homosexuals can live their lives without persecution, the people who oppose them should be able to live just like that, without persecution. If you tell me that posting someones face on a recognizable website over one world is not persecution then I dont know what is. 6 pages on a thread and hundreds of comments on TMZ because he said one word, by poor judgement at that? I would hate to see peoples reaction if he actually came out and said he doesnt like gays. There are all kinds of people out there, white supremacists, homophobes, anti-semitists. These groups can do detestable actions such as engage in mass killings. Those things are wrong, but we cannot the the bug on their ass just because their views and the things that come out of their minds dont coincide with our views. It might not make sense to you or me, but those views make sense to them, and we have to respect that. Everyone is overreacting to one word, especially the wrestling community. Now the families of homosexuals who have their funerals destroyed by Westboro Baptists Church have something to bitch about, but we're creating a frezy because a guy said one word. Cut Punk a break, I'm sure that if you're old enough to be on this site then you've said something you're not proud of. I'm sure you wouldnt like it if I made a 6 page thread and a news article on TMZ about it, now would you?
On the Daniel Tosh thing I'd just like to say that it isnt uncomfortable at all when he says the N-word. Hes a comedian, people watch his show just to laugh, at themselves and at others. Just like Lisa Lamponelli. You really need to know what to expect when you go to see an insult comic. We've broken the barriers with words in the younger generations. If gays are laughing at the words *** or homo then what harm does it actually do? They hear people of all orientations use the word and it doesnt bother them the least bit. If it doesnt hurt then why make a big deal about it. What the whole "homo" and "*****" movement are trying to do is dissasosiate those words from their original meaning so that they are no longer hurtful to those groups.
Are you aware how this works? GLAAD has NOTHING to do with the WWE, other than their partnership to help reduce bullying. GLAAD has no legal power at all. GLAAD wasn't "involved" so much as they took Punk and the WWE to task for the thoughtless comment. It's not like GLAAD walked into the WWE's offices wagging its finger at Vince McMahon telling him he had to make Punk apologize or they would shut him down.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say at this point.
Again, if you want me to quit calling you a dumbass, quit saying stupid things.
And feel free to call me Red Forman all you want. He, too, had little patience for stupidity.
Yes, because comedy never existed until we created ways to say hurtful things about other people, based upon their genetics.
Just like what happened when people pushed for equal rights for black people, right? Just resulted in more slavery, more lynchings, and now there's not a single black person to be found in America, right?
Again, you seem to have very little understanding of the First Amendment. I sincerely recommend you consult your government teacher.
No one removed CM Punk's right to say "homo". If they did, he would be in prison.
How do you not understand the difference between law and social consciousness?
It saddens me there are people like you in this world.
No, we don't. We don't have to respect the views of people who practice hatred, bigotry and discrimination based simply upon genetics.
Do you not understand that if people are taught homophobic slurs are wrong, entities like the Westboro Baptist Church are much less likely to exist in the first place?
I did. I'm not cutting YOU a break because you're defending the use of the word, or at the very least, claiming it's wrong for people to get upset about it.
Punk apologized, but you're defending what he said. I'll cut him the break, but not you.
I'm sure I have. Doesn't mean it was right for me to say it.
Are you aware how this works? GLAAD has NOTHING to do with the WWE, other than their partnership to help reduce bullying. GLAAD has no legal power at all. GLAAD wasn't "involved" so much as they took Punk and the WWE to task for the thoughtless comment. It's not like GLAAD walked into the WWE's offices wagging its finger at Vince McMahon telling him he had to make Punk apologize or they would shut him down.
I don't even understand what you're trying to say at this point.
Again, if you want me to quit calling you a dumbass, quit saying stupid things.
And feel free to call me Red Forman all you want. He, too, had little patience for stupidity.
Yes, because comedy never existed until we created ways to say hurtful things about other people, based upon their genetics.
Just like what happened when people pushed for equal rights for black people, right? Just resulted in more slavery, more lynchings, and now there's not a single black person to be found in America, right?
Again, you seem to have very little understanding of the First Amendment. I sincerely recommend you consult your government teacher.
No one removed CM Punk's right to say "homo". If they did, he would be in prison.
How do you not understand the difference between law and social consciousness?
It saddens me there are people like you in this world.
No, we don't. We don't have to respect the views of people who practice hatred, bigotry and discrimination based simply upon genetics.
Do you not understand that if people are taught homophobic slurs are wrong, entities like the Westboro Baptist Church are much less likely to exist in the first place?
I did. I'm not cutting YOU a break because you're defending the use of the word, or at the very least, claiming it's wrong for people to get upset about it.
Punk apologized, but you're defending what he said. I'll cut him the break, but not you.
I'm sure I have. Doesn't mean it was right for me to say it.
GLAAD might not have any direct governmental power but it has influence. Influence by parent groups that deem that if a kid sees someone use a chair on someone else they are going to repeat that action are the same groups that influenced WWE to go PG. Just giving you a little taste of how much power these groups have. I also think that these groups have no right to insinuate that someone is going to feel offended by what Punk or anyone else says. They were the only ones who felt offended by the phrase, which makes them the minority oppinion in the homosexual community. Do you really think gays like the stigma that if someone says something that gays might not agree with theres going to be a big situation made about it. I'm sure they go by their lives day to day not thinking about what celebrity said which word. And yes, you do kill the art of comedy. Find me one successful comic that hasnt made a joke at the expense of someone. Seriously, do you hear yourself? You're ok with destroying an entire line of entertainment because a couple of PC pricks think they can decide whats hurtful and whats not.
And sure we got rid of slavery in America, but theres still those out there who dislike blacks, and they will always exist, just like homophobes will always exist. Oh and damn, of course I'm whats wrong with this country. I'm such a degenerate for believing that people should go on with their daily lives instead of troubling themselves over one word that wasnt even meant towards them. I'm sowwy
But seriously, are you still going to keep this going? The guy said a word and appologized for it. GLAAD has let it go, TMZ has let it go, but somehow you cant let it go. I can only guess why in that mind of yours you think its okay to keep a conversation like this going. Maybe you and any other poor soul who was emotionally distraught by Punk using the word "homo" should step out and enjoy life, as great as it is, instead on hanging on someones every word. Punk said homo, and in that time between the incident and him appologizing I didnt see worlds ending or societies expelling homosexuals or gay people jumping out of windows. Go figure.
Any influence it has is influence it is given. They have no legal weight.
False. Money is what influenced the WWE to go PG, nothing else. If it were more profitable to put on a TV-MA product, that's what Vince McMahon would do.
Just because you don't understand business doesn't mean you are right.
Really? You think homosexuals like it when they are referred to in a disparaging manner?
First of all, that stigma only exists in your your narrow-minded world, but second of all, I'm sure that stigma would be much more likeable to them than the stigma they currently have to deal with, which is their lifestyle being considered "wrong".
Bill Cosby?
You see, comedians who aren't funny unless they make fun of people based upon the color of their skin, or their sexual partner preferences aren't really that good at being a comedian. Good comedians can make people laugh regardless of the content. I'm not saying making fun of people is bad, I'm saying mocking an entire class of people based upon their genetics, which can lead to hatred and bigotry, is.
Do you really not understand the difference?
Good to see where your priorities lie. You're okay with the dehumanizing of an entire group of individuals, just so you can have some mediocre comedian entertain you.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you really believe it's okay to subject people to comments of intolerance just so you can have a few laughs? If I were your parents, I'd be incredibly ashamed of you right now.
Really? You can see the future?
Because we're I'm sitting, in the last 150 years, this country has gone from seeing blacks as property, neanderthals who exist only to make white people money, to giving these people equal rights and protection under the law. That's what we've done in 150 years, imagine what we can do in the next 150 years.
The same goes for homosexuals. In the last decade, we've convinced enough people in five different states it is absurd to deny homosexuals the same legal rights and privileges of marriage we grant heterosexuals. Imagine what the next decade might bring.
The fight should never stop, until all groups of people are treated for who they are as a particular person, and not for how they were born.
Exactly. You ARE what's wrong with this country. I'm guessing you're a white heterosexual Bible-thumping Christian male. It's easy for you to say we shouldn't treat everyone equally, because you are already being treated as a human being. Many homosexuals are not, and until that changes, the fight must continue.Oh and damn, of course I'm whats wrong with this country. I'm such a degenerate for believing that people should go on with their daily lives instead of troubling themselves over one word that wasnt even meant towards them. I'm sowwy
Yes, because as long as you are going to say stupid and ignorant things, I'm going to be here to point them out.
I've already let it go. I let it go the minute Punk apologized for it.
I'm criticizing you and your attitudes, not Punk. Pretty sure this has already been covered as well.
If GLAAD has a change of heart and decided to deem WWE morally wrong and encourages homosexuals to boycott then WWE could be in trouble. I'm pretty sure the company with a bunch of half naked sweaty oily guys has a significant gay following, and I wouldnt want to see WWE lose that demgraphic because a certain group has an oversensitive organization in its ear.Any influence it has is influence it is given. They have no legal weight.
False. Money is what influenced the WWE to go PG, nothing else. If it were more profitable to put on a TV-MA product, that's what Vince McMahon would do.
Just because you don't understand business doesn't mean you are right.
Really? You think homosexuals like it when they are referred to in a disparaging manner?
First of all, that stigma only exists in your your narrow-minded world, but second of all, I'm sure that stigma would be much more likeable to them than the stigma they currently have to deal with, which is their lifestyle being considered "wrong".
Bill Cosby?
You see, comedians who aren't funny unless they make fun of people based upon the color of their skin, or their sexual partner preferences aren't really that good at being a comedian. Good comedians can make people laugh regardless of the content. I'm not saying making fun of people is bad, I'm saying mocking an entire class of people based upon their genetics, which can lead to hatred and bigotry, is.
Do you really not understand the difference?
Good to see where your priorities lie. You're okay with the dehumanizing of an entire group of individuals, just so you can have some mediocre comedian entertain you.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Do you really believe it's okay to subject people to comments of intolerance just so you can have a few laughs? If I were your parents, I'd be incredibly ashamed of you right now.
Really? You can see the future?
Because we're I'm sitting, in the last 150 years, this country has gone from seeing blacks as property, neanderthals who exist only to make white people money, to giving these people equal rights and protection under the law. That's what we've done in 150 years, imagine what we can do in the next 150 years.
The same goes for homosexuals. In the last decade, we've convinced enough people in five different states it is absurd to deny homosexuals the same legal rights and privileges of marriage we grant heterosexuals. Imagine what the next decade might bring.
The fight should never stop, until all groups of people are treated for who they are as a particular person, and not for how they were born.
Exactly. You ARE what's wrong with this country. I'm guessing you're a white heterosexual Bible-thumping Christian male. It's easy for you to say we shouldn't treat everyone equally, because you are already being treated as a human being. Many homosexuals are not, and until that changes, the fight must continue.
Yes, because as long as you are going to say stupid and ignorant things, I'm going to be here to point them out.
I've already let it go. I let it go the minute Punk apologized for it.
I'm criticizing you and your attitudes, not Punk. Pretty sure this has already been covered as well.
Ohh and once again Punk did not refer to the homosexual community as "homos", he refered to two deuchbags who were heckling him as homos. I dont think the gay community would be all up in arms about that.
But Bill Cosby got his fame a while ago. In today's society you cant go on the stage and say puddin pop and get a reaction...well maybe you can but its not going to be enough to put bread on the table. Insult comics help us realize that theres something wrong or different about all of us, and that as soon as we learn to laugh about it then we're fine. PC people on the other hand, want you to walk around clenching your fist because someone said something that strokes you the wrong way.
I'm not okay with dehumanizing an entire group of people, but I'd like to desentitize them before removing every little word that doesnt compliment them becomes more important than letting people live their lives in peace. Every day we have to keep watching what we way because we might get in trouble. How about we learn how to not get offended, and then theres no reason for others to get in trouble. See, everybody wins! Our generation has been doing that for a while now, feel free to join in when you're done with the hate.
And finally people have the right to believe homosexuality is wrong. Wether its part of their religion or their society or it just pops into their head one morning they still have the right. I believe we're all allowed to determine whats right and wrong from our own perspective, or do we have to lose that right too because GLAAD is opposed to it? And haha, a Bible thumbing white heterosexual male. I'm opposed to a lot of things in the Bible, I'm far from white, and I'm open to whatever sexual orientation is around me. I like women, but if one day I wake up and decide to like men theres not a damn thing anyone can say to stop me. Just because people disagree with the homosexual lifestyle doesnt mean they're not being treated as humans. Humans are always judged by things in their lives, some of which they cant change such as appearance or personality. Being judged because of who you are is what makes you human, because you dare to be different even though you know there are others around you that are going to disagree. If you change yourself or try to change others because they want to voice their displeasure with you're life choices then you have no understanding of human perception and should be educated on how this world works.
Rampage Bentley
Saving WZ one post at a time.
First of all Sly, every response you have to someone contains a barrage of insults. Infact, I don't think I've ever seen you post without insulting someone and it comes off as incredibly douchey.
Secondly, I see what you're saying and agree that to refer to homosexual person as "homo" or any other derogatory term is deplorable and awful. The thing is, CM Punk was not refering to a homosexual in that way. A special interest group made a huge deal because he dropped it.
You made a connection to the "N" word earlier, which is COMPLETELY off based, they are nowhere near the same thing. For one if someone called a white person "******" no one would be offended by that, so why is it so offensive that a straight person be called homo? As far as the argument that it's putting a group of people down, it's basically saying someone isn't manly (which homosexual men have a stereotype of being, and not a bs stereotype at that.)
I don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle, but at the same time it's not my place to judge the preferences of another, nor would I ever mock someone for living that lifestyle.
But, I also completely disagree with any group who takes it upon themselves to start personally policing the words that come out of an individuals mouth. Regardless of whether they have any real or legal weight behind them, the media has given them a major voice and they do impact and reach far more than a special interest group should.
If you disagree, that's okay, but do me a favor and actually debate instead of argue. I'm curious to see if you can make a post without insulting someone and exerting a false superiority.
Secondly, I see what you're saying and agree that to refer to homosexual person as "homo" or any other derogatory term is deplorable and awful. The thing is, CM Punk was not refering to a homosexual in that way. A special interest group made a huge deal because he dropped it.
You made a connection to the "N" word earlier, which is COMPLETELY off based, they are nowhere near the same thing. For one if someone called a white person "******" no one would be offended by that, so why is it so offensive that a straight person be called homo? As far as the argument that it's putting a group of people down, it's basically saying someone isn't manly (which homosexual men have a stereotype of being, and not a bs stereotype at that.)
I don't agree with homosexuality as a lifestyle, but at the same time it's not my place to judge the preferences of another, nor would I ever mock someone for living that lifestyle.
But, I also completely disagree with any group who takes it upon themselves to start personally policing the words that come out of an individuals mouth. Regardless of whether they have any real or legal weight behind them, the media has given them a major voice and they do impact and reach far more than a special interest group should.
If you disagree, that's okay, but do me a favor and actually debate instead of argue. I'm curious to see if you can make a post without insulting someone and exerting a false superiority.
First of all, thanks for using paragraphs. That other stuff was a nightmare.
Pretty certain the WWE would be just fine.
I'll watch Bill Cosby any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, before I watch someone like Lisa Lampanelli. I watched a Red Skelton special the other day, and laughed much harder than I ever have at today's "comedians". The Three Stooges are still considered arguably the greatest comedy trio in history. Abbot and Costello's "Who's on First?" routine is an American classic, and "I Love Lucy" and "The Andy Griffith Show" are two of the greatest comedy TV sitcoms of all time.
You are just not going to convince me that in order to be funny, you have to be offensive to an entire class of people. And I believe anyone who truly feels that way has something wrong with them.
You're right, as far as offensive words go, "homo" is not as bad as "***", but they are BOTH offensive. And the reason they are offensive is because you use them in a derogatory manner. Essentially, what you are saying is that being a homosexual is a bad thing, something to be avoided at all costs, which is dehumanizing them.
The severity of the word is second to the emphasis it has. And no matter if you choose "***" or "homo", both times the emphasis is that homosexuals are a second rate class of citizen, which is just completely false.
I really don't know how to explain it any better than that.
As long as people are committing acts of hatred and violence against a group of people simply because of how they were born, there needs to be groups which work to combat that hatred.
It amazes me that you are more concerned with being able to speak your mind, regardless of the consequences, than the fact those homosexuals are getting beaten to a bloody pulp in NYC, as you pointed out.
You seem to think that you already live in the ideal society, where no hatred exists except that hatred which is earned through actions, but I assure you that world does not exist yet. My guess is that you have not yet graduated high school, or if you have, you have only recently done so. You think you have everything figured out, but from your posts, it's obvious you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.
If you really think everyone is kind and homosexuals need to quit being offended any time someone regards them as less than a human being, why don't you do a test? Spend the next month as a homosexual. No, you don't have to have sex with a guy, but dress like a "flaming homosexual". Talk with a higher pitched voice, and act like you are a member of the homosexual community. Do that for a month, and then tell me if the world was as kind as you thought they were.
Punk has the right to say what he wants, but so does GLAAD. You are constantly defending Punk's right of free speech, but saying GLAAD shouldn't have theirs.
That's wrong.
People should not be judge by things they have no control over, but more importantly, they should not be discriminated against because of things they have no control over.
Conjecture much? The WW made a habit of pissing off just about every "moral" activist group there was in the late 90's, and the Attitude Era was born.
Pretty certain the WWE would be just fine.
And I sincerely doubt the gay community would choose you as their spokesperson.
But he did meet your criteria, no?
I'm sorry, but you're just completely wrong about everything.
I'll watch Bill Cosby any day of the week, and twice on Sunday, before I watch someone like Lisa Lampanelli. I watched a Red Skelton special the other day, and laughed much harder than I ever have at today's "comedians". The Three Stooges are still considered arguably the greatest comedy trio in history. Abbot and Costello's "Who's on First?" routine is an American classic, and "I Love Lucy" and "The Andy Griffith Show" are two of the greatest comedy TV sitcoms of all time.
You are just not going to convince me that in order to be funny, you have to be offensive to an entire class of people. And I believe anyone who truly feels that way has something wrong with them.
You don't seem to understand.
You're right, as far as offensive words go, "homo" is not as bad as "***", but they are BOTH offensive. And the reason they are offensive is because you use them in a derogatory manner. Essentially, what you are saying is that being a homosexual is a bad thing, something to be avoided at all costs, which is dehumanizing them.
The severity of the word is second to the emphasis it has. And no matter if you choose "***" or "homo", both times the emphasis is that homosexuals are a second rate class of citizen, which is just completely false.
I really don't know how to explain it any better than that.
You keep talking about "our generation"...which generation are you talking about? Because I guarantee you I can find examples of hate crimes no matter the generation.
As long as people are committing acts of hatred and violence against a group of people simply because of how they were born, there needs to be groups which work to combat that hatred.
It amazes me that you are more concerned with being able to speak your mind, regardless of the consequences, than the fact those homosexuals are getting beaten to a bloody pulp in NYC, as you pointed out.
You seem to think that you already live in the ideal society, where no hatred exists except that hatred which is earned through actions, but I assure you that world does not exist yet. My guess is that you have not yet graduated high school, or if you have, you have only recently done so. You think you have everything figured out, but from your posts, it's obvious you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.
If you really think everyone is kind and homosexuals need to quit being offended any time someone regards them as less than a human being, why don't you do a test? Spend the next month as a homosexual. No, you don't have to have sex with a guy, but dress like a "flaming homosexual". Talk with a higher pitched voice, and act like you are a member of the homosexual community. Do that for a month, and then tell me if the world was as kind as you thought they were.
They do have the right to believe it's wrong, but not the right to take action against it based upon that belief. Discriminatory practices and violence are not acceptable against homosexuals just because you believe the are wrong.
No, you're not. If you were, you'd understand why comments like CM Punk made should not be tolerated, not standing in this thread saying it's okay for him to make them.
Punk has the right to say what he wants, but so does GLAAD. You are constantly defending Punk's right of free speech, but saying GLAAD shouldn't have theirs.
In 45 states across America it does. There are only 5 states which legally allow homosexual marriage and the benefits afforded to those who are married. 45 states are actively engaging in discrimination against homosexuals. Why? Because they disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, mostly because it goes against the religious faith.
That's wrong.
Homosexuality is not a choice. There is enough scientific and anecdotal evidence to say that with some degree of certainty. People don't just wake up and decide to be gay, no more than people decide to wake up and be black.
People should not be judge by things they have no control over, but more importantly, they should not be discriminated against because of things they have no control over.
No, sir, YOU need to be educated on how this world works. Or, more accurately, you need to be educated on how this world DOESN'T work. The last 100 years have seen more social progress than the 200 before it, but we still have a long way to go. And with attitudes similar to what you have, the work will continue to be difficult. It won't be until everyone understands that no one should be treated as a second class citizen based upon genetics that this country can be considered truly great.
Wait wait, what? "They do have the right to believe it's wrong, but not the right to take action against it based upon that belief". So they can believe whatever they want as long as they're quiet about it. Wow maybe the African Americans who thought slavery was wrong should have been quiet about it and not taken action against it due to their beliefs. Btw, nobody is stopping people from being gay, they're just organizing to prove that its wrong, which they have every right to do. I'm not going to get into the whole comedian thing, if you think any of those shows would be sucessful with anyone over the age of 12 in these days then you need help. Clean comedy had its time, and now its over.
And no, I dont believe that theres no hatred in the world, I believe that you have to pick your fights. Just because someone used the word homo doesnt mean that it has to impact your personal life. We all know people who are verbally inferior and dont think twice before speaking, and we all know that its better to ignore them than to fight a single person. And I know the reaction I would get if I acted like a gay person, but thats because I live around immature and unedjucated gang members. The sistuation could be eithe really really good or really really bad. You could have the polar opposite to my situation and live in a very gay friendly neighborhood in California.
Just because I'm not pissed as hell because a guy used the word homo doesnt mean I'm open to the orientations around me.
Those states have a right to vote against gay marrige. Voting right control this country. Just because John McCain didnt get elected as president doesnt mean his supporters should receive special treatment. Does it seem fair, no, but its our system and its the closest we'll get without violating someoenes religious rights. Once you understand how important religion is to certain people, you'll undersatand why certain senators are saying no.
And for the last time I'm not pro discrimination, I'm pro freedom of speech. Maybe you should look up the difference. Did I say that those gay beatings in my city are justified? No. Did I say CM Punk's word choice is justified? No. I'm saying the world isnt all sweet and if you're going to get upset about something, with all the problems that people face in this world, then one guy accidentaly saying homo shouldnt be your first choice.
No one is getting treated as a second class citizen. You act as if all the laws were put in place for the straights and the gays just had to fight for everything. Both gay and straight people have had to fight for their rights. Neither group was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, that I can assure. I honestly think I covered everything I need to cover right now. Unless theres some way you can prove that the first amendment is wrong and that people dont have a right to be against homosexuality or gay marrige then I think we're done.
Sly and Joey both make valid points.
In MY personal life, I have several homosexual friends who laughed when Punk called the guy a "homo". I don't personally know anyone who would be offended by the word, but, I can fully understand and respect why one would be. I also believe that ignorance is far more of a concern than the actual "words" being thrown about.
As was said earlier with all the "1st amendment" ranting. It serves to protect everyones opinions, no matter how ignorant. Now, to me, there is a huge difference between opinions and actions. If someone is dumb enough to let hate speech, or any speech for that matter, incite them to violence that is the fault of the person who was incited, not the person delivering the speech.
As far as Punk being a "homophobe", I surely do not believe he is. He has apologized for his actions and anyone thinking he is wrong for apologizing is seriously fucked in the head.
In MY personal life, I have several homosexual friends who laughed when Punk called the guy a "homo". I don't personally know anyone who would be offended by the word, but, I can fully understand and respect why one would be. I also believe that ignorance is far more of a concern than the actual "words" being thrown about.
As was said earlier with all the "1st amendment" ranting. It serves to protect everyones opinions, no matter how ignorant. Now, to me, there is a huge difference between opinions and actions. If someone is dumb enough to let hate speech, or any speech for that matter, incite them to violence that is the fault of the person who was incited, not the person delivering the speech.
As far as Punk being a "homophobe", I surely do not believe he is. He has apologized for his actions and anyone thinking he is wrong for apologizing is seriously fucked in the head.
Rampage Bentley
Saving WZ one post at a time.
Why is it wrong? Do you realize that marriage was created by a religious institution? What I think is wrong is that an extreme minority wants to make Priests, Pastors, Ministers, and Rabbis go against their religious beliefs because less than 4% of the population feels slighted by it.
Your entire views on homosexuality come from pop psychology (it's genetic, etc.) Every piece of evidence documented files homosexuality as a sexual disorder, only being removed from that list because people found it offensive.
People are allowed to have their opinions, no matter what you think of them. It doesn't make them a better or worse person than you. Get over yourself.
I am proud of you for making this post , I agree 100%.
Its one thing to preach love , peace & acceptance , but to do it by calling us all assholes and fucktards and all of that like he has so far is definately not the way to go about it imo
All it takes is one complaint to set the fire off. George Carlin's "7 dirty words" record was played uncensored on the radio one day, and 1 man complained about it. The result? The fines the FCC now give out to any words deemed unacceptable that air on radio and TV between certain hours.
Free speech? No, not entirely. For every person who uses their "right" to say what they want, there are 2 or 3 others who use theirs to say "You cant say that!"
What Punk did was wrong. No doubt about it. Hence the apology.
He is a professional, who is supposed to remain that, at all costs. Even when in character.
Free speech? No, not entirely. For every person who uses their "right" to say what they want, there are 2 or 3 others who use theirs to say "You cant say that!"
What Punk did was wrong. No doubt about it. Hence the apology.
He is a professional, who is supposed to remain that, at all costs. Even when in character.
Your entire view is based on some Religious crap that has been forced into people's heads for hundreds of years.
Do you know what else use to be viewed as a "Genetic Disorder"?
Being black.
Were they wrong? Of course, just as they are by saying being attracted to another person of the same sex is a disorder.
His name was John Douglas, it was back in 1978, and it wasn't for the word Bitch. Look up the "7 Dirty Words" and you'll see what it was. How you don't know Carlin's material is astonishing.
I know Carlins work, and I seen him do the 7 dirty words thing (it used to be o my favorites for a couple of years, it probablys still is there if I look. I'm just saying that having heard those 7 words I question the mental state of anyone who is disturbed by them.
Ill be brief because quite frankly Sly is owning this argument. No surprise there.
Joey, why are you so supportive of people having the right to voice their displeasure with homosexuality yet you dont support the right of organizations such as GLADD to defend it?
I think you should look up the first amendment. When the constitution was written it was not with the idea that random people had the right to go around calling people ****. I find it funny how many people think that the first amendment gives them the right to say whatever they want wherever they want whenever they want with out having to be held responsible for their comments. If I called one of my customers a *** I could kiss my job goodbye and I wouldnt be able to use the first amendment to get it back. I dont recall reading anywhere that CM Punk faced any consequences from the government for what he said. Your freedom of speech argument is completely irrelevant. Also I notice how you seem to think freedom of speech only applies to your side of the debate.
Joey, why are you so supportive of people having the right to voice their displeasure with homosexuality yet you dont support the right of organizations such as GLADD to defend it?
I think you should look up the first amendment. When the constitution was written it was not with the idea that random people had the right to go around calling people ****. I find it funny how many people think that the first amendment gives them the right to say whatever they want wherever they want whenever they want with out having to be held responsible for their comments. If I called one of my customers a *** I could kiss my job goodbye and I wouldnt be able to use the first amendment to get it back. I dont recall reading anywhere that CM Punk faced any consequences from the government for what he said. Your freedom of speech argument is completely irrelevant. Also I notice how you seem to think freedom of speech only applies to your side of the debate.
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
Well, this thread has gotten more intelligent than I thought.
To be honest, I am not surprised Punk said that. I don't think Punk is homophobia or that he hates gay people. But to anyone who has seen some of his pre-WWE stuff, there is a reason he was perfect for that ROH crowd. The guy was blunt, unapologetic, and just an overall bitter smart ass. He has a history of riling up fans a little too much.
I do think he should've known better than to say it though. He hasn't wrestled in front of an indy crowd in years. He is in front of a WWE crowd, which is amongst the largest crowds of any kind of show regardless of what media credibility the 'E has. It has nothing to do with "*****fication" or free speech. It has more to deal with the fact that the WWE fans are extremely diverse.
To be honest, I am not surprised Punk said that. I don't think Punk is homophobia or that he hates gay people. But to anyone who has seen some of his pre-WWE stuff, there is a reason he was perfect for that ROH crowd. The guy was blunt, unapologetic, and just an overall bitter smart ass. He has a history of riling up fans a little too much.
I do think he should've known better than to say it though. He hasn't wrestled in front of an indy crowd in years. He is in front of a WWE crowd, which is amongst the largest crowds of any kind of show regardless of what media credibility the 'E has. It has nothing to do with "*****fication" or free speech. It has more to deal with the fact that the WWE fans are extremely diverse.
1st of all , this is not religious. We have a dude up in this topic who said hes Catholic but he defends homosexuality with alot of conviction and rage.
I on the other hand am not a very religious person at all and I think for myself and do not care what a 2000+ year old book written by mortal men translated from another language says. I do not think its right , I don't think its natural , because I myself think so.
So your whole arguement of religious people being against gays and non religious being for them , has just been proved wrong by examples
Religion or not , general concensus is that being a man wanting another man to ram his dick up your ass repetitivley & having no desire whatsoever to have sex with females is pretty weird
If you ask me , its a birth defect to be 100% gay & then Bi people are just perverted
What happens is , a baby is conceived and while its forming its brain for unknown reasons developed to be that of the opposite gender that it really is. As such yes we shouldn't hate on them and whatever , but to rule out the likely possibility that it is a birth defect is absolutley obsurd.
Its also one thing to be able to recognize the beauty in someone of ones own gender , and then another thing to actually be having sex with someone of ones own gender. Being able to tell another dude looks good does not make you gay.
I find it absolutley ridiculous that our society has somehow recently brainwashed a ton of straight people into thinking being gay isn't even some sort of mental issue but that its 100% natural and normal , and that they then go and defend the concept of it to no end.
NO its not right to ridicule other people and hurt their feelings. Its not right to automatically hate people for being gay. But that doesn't mean you have to defend them and that doesn't mean you have to tell yourself its not even possibly a mental issue of some sorts.
As I said before , I don't really care if someones gay thats their own problem and their own business but to try to say its not perverted in any way to say its not un-natural in any way , and to say theres no way its a mental defect is absolutley obsurd.
If it wasn't a defect of sorts that would mean every single person on the planet is actually gay whether they realize it or not... and well that flat out makes no sense
I sometimes think that in the future if our world continues at this direction... that one day once gay marriage is legal in all parts of the english speaking world... that the next thing on the agenda is going to be people protesting and bitching for the right to marry animals , and/or aliens in the event that they ever live in harmony with humans on our planet.
To your other point : Being black is a literal race , that makes no sense (If anyone ever even said that , I really doubt it , no clue where you're getting that from) and if anyone ever REALLY said that they would have to be joking
TLDR? :No , its not right to hate people just because they are gay. Being gay is a mental birth defect IMO this is why we shouldn't hate on them because they (probably) didn't choose to be.
BUT you don't have to think they are natural/right or defend them either.
I basically rambled in a circle for a long time on these points.
Also that simply calling someone as a homo doesn't mean someone hates gay people either , and that this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion. Ever heard the saying "Making a mountain out of a mole hill?"
Plus Punk apologized (Which as a heel I think he shouldn't have to , people should expect disorderly conduct and rudeness from heels at a wrestling show TBH) but anyway , this has just been taken way too far and seems like its not even about CM Punk anymore lol
Edit : I see the post below me now. I will have you know that I do not watch FOX news. K , quit assuming things
Now you're throwing Pro-life and the KKK into this somehow? Cmon.... (For the record , no I'm not aware of specific things the KKK says , why and how exactly are you aware? You go to their meetings? Eh? Eh?? Is that what it is?
)You know what I'm done posting about this I've said what I have to say and you people are taking this whole subject and twisting it all kinds of weird ways
I would LOVE to see all these studies you speak of that say its a mental disorder. Oh, and anything that comes from FOX News doesn't count for shit.
There has not been any SERIOUS documented studies of this being a disorder. Especially how you explained it.
Also, I don't see where this American assumption that legalizing it would lead to some huge disaster or something comes from. Gay marriage has been Legal here in Canada for a long ass time, and we're still here. In fact, no one really talks about it here, because it's not that big a deal. Saying this will open the doors for people wanting to bang animals? WTF? Well, as I said, it's been legal here for as long as I can remember to marry someone of the same sex. Has there been any Human/Sheep marriages? No. So there goes that argument.
So.. You never heard of the KKK then?
I don't think they are joking when they talk.
Really there is not a lot of difference between the Anti-Gay, the Pro-Life, and the KKK. All three hold on to some notion that what they say is how it should be, and anything apposed to that is wrong. The thing is, all three of these groups are close minded ******s.
If you call refering to others as dumbfucks and exposing yourself a hypocrite "owning" then hes done an obscene amount of "owning" in this thread. "Joey, why are you so supportive of people having the right to voice their displeasure with homosexuality yet you don’t support the right of organizations such as GLADD to defend it?" I never said I didnt support GLAAD's right to defend homosexuality, I said they blow certain situations out of proportion. They have the right to blow it out of portportion, its their first amendment right, but it doesnt make their interntions right.
When did I ever say that the first amendment only applies to my side of the argument? Like I pointed out, nobody is telling anyone that they're not allowed to be gay, they're just voicing their displeasure of the subject, which they have every right to do.
What do you think their intentions are? I think the intention is to get people to stop using words like homo and *** as derogatory remarks. How could you possibly find anything wrong with that?
And Gladd has every right to voice their displeasure about people who voice their displeasure against gays. Why do you defend CM Punk's right to say homo but you do not defend Gladd's right to voice their displeasure about it? That freedom of speech thing works both ways. If this is truly about freedom of speech you have no argument.
So you don't care if people are Gay or Bi? It's our business? As a Bisexual man, I'm automatically a pervert just because I find men attractive? If there was any truth in what you have said in this thread, that you truly don't care and are happy for us to carry on with our lives then you would not have participated in the thread.
I'm not mad. It comes with the territory I''m afraid but there is one small thing that actually made me laugh because I've seen it time and time again in this thread and in others like it. and that was this line.
So you find it hard to swallow that a man can have sex with another man and enjoy it? What about a woman with a woman? Every mans fantasy. A big seller in the Adult Entertainment industry too. So that, to me, sounds like a big vote for equality. What that tells me is that Straight and Bi men like to watch Girl's have sex with one another. I'm sure you've seen some of this. Were you repulsed or turned on?
If you weren't then fine, I'll believe you. You are a guy who just doesn't see the appeal and I can fully understand that. As a Bi man, I am still more attracted to Women than Men... The female form is a beautiful thing and sadly, us men just look sad and pathetic when naked, even those with the best physiques. But that doesn't mean a Man can't be attractive. A man's hair or eyes can make me excited and happy in similar ways a woman can. There is also the submissive side to it. In a straight relationship, it's a one way thing and if you'll forgive the vulgarity, the man always gives... The woman always receives. In a gay relationship, there isn't that restriction. And none of this nonsense about using toys and whatever else people use to spice up their love life, the real thing is the only thing that really matters. Plastic toys lack life.
You really need to speak with people who have mental defects from birth... or even physical defects from birth. Tell them that they are in the same situation as the Gays. Tell them that their Autism or MS is just as bad as wanting to have a guys dick rammed repeatedly in your arse.
You said that if it isn't a mental health problem then all of us are Gay. That is quite frankly the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard in my life. We aren't born one way or the other. We're born with the capacity to love. Better yet, lust. As children, we aren't born with the knowledge of sex. We don't understand the difference between boys and girls until 2 or 3 years old and only then it's a suspicion that they're different. Without that knowledge, we make a choice of who we like and who we don't and it has something to do with attraction and if that person is nice to you then it's more likely to become friendship. Only as adults do we let sex get in the way at all times.
